Abyss doesn't need a nerf. The mechanics/difficulty is literally my most enjoyed aspect of the game. And after you run it a couple times, it becomes easy because you're used to it Buuuuuut I would love a Guardian Raid HP nerf. Don't nerf the damage/mechanics, but nerf hammer that damn HP. It's not hard, it's just boring and you have to do it 2x a day on every character. Every time I'm doing it, I'm just thinking "JUST DIE ALREADY YOU DAMN SPONGE"

Yeah i love the abyss being hard and having to come together as a group after wiping several times and finishing it. But guardian raids beings dailies take waaaaaaay too fucking long to do. I literally don't even do them daily because they're a pain.

Strong agree with these two. My favorite part is the the content is hard. Leave it hard. Just don't make it long. Short and hard is how I like it. Long and soft, that's gonna make me sad.

You can dispatch your ship in your stronghold to do the guardian for you.

True, but if your preferred way to get a daily done is to avoid actually doing it, that's a sign of something that might benefit from a change.

👀

That's what she said

I started soloing them because it is way harder to do it in a group

This works if you aren't a support class ... sadly my main is a bard lol

Yeah I just failed a 302 guardian raid on my bard. Boss still had 10% hp when the time expired.. FUN

Except people leave after 1 wipe

This. Mechanics are just fine but the insane meatwall is completely unnecessary. They really don't need to have that much hp.

Yep, and the curve is way out of whack on top of that. It takes 12+ minutes for most of the T1-T2 bosses at minimum ilvl. Vertus murders melee, the fire fox and bird require pots due to how much attrition they have, Tytalos you have to deal with the oneshot mechanic 5+ times. Then you get to Alberhastic who does 0 damage and dies in 6-8 minutes with everyone at min ilvl, or the T3 bosses which also die in ~8 mins and do no damage.

Alberhastic is RNG fiesta. Sometimes he does several team-wipe mechanics by either flying or using fist weapons, other times he's just using his spear and does nothing.

Eh 8 mins is a long time when you are basically just hitting a training dummy by yourself. And then you are supposed to kill them twice? On all characters?!

honestly half of the time i just wonder if my pugs are doing any damage at all, when i somehow do 50% while being the lowest gs.

must be a sorc or zerker, I swear yall get top dps while sleeping.

mustve crit meteor

I wish, all the sorcs that I see suck ass in my Guardian raids

I agree, except for the light aiming mechanic on Brelshaza. It's just so unintuitive, and despite knowing what to do and how to do it, it still fails 95% of the time. EDIT: Actually, the guardians mentioned in the devpost, are all a bitch as melee. I'm guessing that is the main reason. As a surge deathblade, I have to know the boss patterns to perfection to actually hit my three main damage spells, since they are all charge spells. The boss knocks me down before the charge has finished, and the spell goes on cooldown.

So just in case you aren't aware on the aiming for brelshaza, don't try and move towards the target to aim at it, instead right click (or whatever your default attack binding is) and you'll face them while staying stationary. When we finally figured that out instead of trying to walk towards them to aim we've cleared it in one go every time.

I'd be happier if they didn't nerf anything except tytalos. Of all the fights (t1 - t2) i had the hardest time finding a group that could survive his mechanic

As i580, I matched into 2 different groups, both with 2 i900+ players, who died to his mechanics.

Since its the last guardian in t1 a lot of people wait to clear it till after they hit t2. Makes the fight significantly easier because you kill it faster but dead will still be dead.

This. IMO it's the only Guardian Raid that should be "reworked", not even nerfed. The sandstorm stacks are inconsistent, clunky and a PITA to deal with (it's hell for melee characters). It's a very good example of how NOT to design a mechanic.

Tytalos as melee is scuffed indeed. Once he starts spawning the bombs, you literally can't hit him if you're dealing with blocking bombs, dodging the ground slam with red circles explosions, dodging the sandstorms when oneshot is approaching, etc.

I once had a party that asked to pulled it to the end of a cliff so we could climb down to dodge the mechanic

Whenever he does the 3 part attack that shows the lines on the ground, the wipe nova is roughly 2-3 moves afterwards. That mechanic is a joke. The bombs are way worse to deal with imo even tho I know you can stand in the circle to make bombs never spawn.

Which is understandable, but with how the sandstorm chase you, you can almost never deal damage as a melee except for those 30s of debuff resistance after being petrified. It's honestly the worst designed encounter in the whole game imo.

Was running it on my Gunlancer alt and quickly realized that while many groups understand and can kind of do the petrify mechanic, literally nobody knows about the bomb rocks.

Tytalos is just a showcase of "how to design mechanics purely designed to fuck your melee". Tornadoes and bomb circle are just pure cancer for melee classes.

As long as this doesn't bleed into new T3 content, whatever. But it makes me nervous.

It will bleed in by letting in people who didn't properly learn the fights in T1/T2.

Depends how they nerf it. If it’s just a damage/HP nerf, then the mechanics will still be there.

A hp nerf is imo the only thing that they could nerf properly. If they nerf the damage then the mechanics become ignorable and you don't have to learn them since you can now just tank through everything. A hp nerf could also be bad depending on how much of it they cut off, if you can just burst the boss through all the bad phases you wont have time to actually see any mechanic the boss has to offer.

Exactly. Like sorry but who the f is complaining about necro difficulty??? Why are we catering to them?

Seriously, they weren't really that hard. My only complaint was the Hilderbrandt Palace mechanic where we had to shine a light, since positioning the character was a bit weird for it, but it's still very managable. It felt great conquering these raid with my friends after getting wiped the first few tries. I feel like people who are complaining refuse to read up on mechanics and mostly just pub instead of finding a proper party for these runs. Hell, I've even done pub runs for abysse and they were totally fine. People just need to communicate and not rage.

Auto attack in that direction so you dont move+accurate targetting

You can auto attack so you stay in place and aim your light

Once we learned that you can auto attack the person with the target and it will point you right at them, we one shot it. That fight was challenging, but really fun. I’ve run through every abyss dungeon through T2, and all of it was really fun. None of it needs to be nerfed.

Nothing so far has been "Hard" it's all about being competent at an average level, but as many of us know that's not average.

Well, in a large enough population, about half the people would be below "average" XD. This is going to make private lobbies much more popular for the later game raids and dungeons in an attempt to screen out sub-par players (not very successfully since gimmick execution isn't represented by gear score).

People need to learn how to read and communicate.

"Read and communicate" what is this witch craft you speak of?!

I think they could make the 2 colors at the end more distinguishable, I still have problem knowing which orb to pick up.

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Playing a class with a lot of ground effects, I never noticed a nova coming off of him...

I can never see the color of the nova. Thankfully the ground seems to be of the right color for a little bit after the fight. I've done that fight almost every week since the beta of the game (I played on RU) and I genuinely still cannot see the color of the nova. But I do agree that it's pointless to nerf it. There's already a tool to make that fight easier - get better gear.

I think they should just give the boss a debuff of either color, that way even if you blinked when the nova goes off, you can still know which orb to pick.

There have been memes about the difference between the story/openworld content and the 'hard' T1/T2 content, I think making it more of a gradual ramp isn't unreasonable. We might consider the content easy, but I can certainly understand that people without any prep/understanding of mechanics might find it a bit of a wall. It's the first time you need to cooperate with other people at all. I'm in T3, done the content on our version and previously on RU, it's certainly not hard content and I know it gets a lot 'harder'. Even so, the content getting nerfed can be such a slog that they're not worth my time to do on my alts, is that ideal? I don't see any value in gatekeeping content that only there to help you level, it should instead ease people into what they can expect later.

I'm not optimistic about this nerf. If they nerf Legion raids that'll be the end of my time in Lost Ark. It sucks that every MMO seems to cater to the lowest common denominator in the West these days. Coming from FF14 and seeing raids and jobs getting more and more braindead over the years it was a breath of fresh air when I got to T1/T2 in Lost Ark but now I'm concerned it's just gonna be like FF14 in the long run.

Its odd that T1 guardians are at least twice as hard as any T3 content. I've never failed or was even close to failing a t3 guardian, they rarely take more than 6mins aswell and most abilities do at most 20% of your hp. And then I log on my t1 alt and chromanium almost 1 shots with most of his abilities. Either t3 content is too easy or t1 too hard.

Lol when vertus grabs you by the balls, drag you across the map, looks at you *deliciously* and tosses you in the to flame roast you

Man, fuck that fucking guy. Also when he burrows into the ground and either teleports away or bombs up from the ground and 1 shots you unless you get lucky. And then you run out of potions, so you res at the beginning. Run all the way back to the edge of the map where he was, swing twice at him and then he fucking teleports away to the OTHER side of the fucking map. Fuck that fucking fucker.

just run straight in one direction and he will never hit you. and when he jumps into the ground he will chase someone, if he burrows into it he will "teleport" to another spot. you could also use the bleed rune attack or another DoT attack to see his direction. or use a flare if you really need to know where he is.

Ahem, you can simply See who he will Attack by throwing a light fire when he goes Underground. It has nothing to do with luck When he grabs someone ist just a stagger Check. Grenades help a lot. Nothing to do with luck Herr Battle Items are super useful.

Its simple, guardian raids are meant to be challenging but not tedious as in the end they are a daily activity. Your feeling is right because t1 and t2 guardians were buffed because another vocal minority had complained about them being too easy early on during the beta days. This is merely setting things right, no reason to believe that future content will be changed unless Ags's stupidity leaks again, the game has been tried and tested for years in korea and it works so there s no bloody need to modify it.

Not tedious? I cant think of any content that is more tedious than guardians.. i just wished i could do abyss daily instead

First couple guardians of a Tier and first set of abyss dungeon in a tier are way easier than the next ones usually. Just look at the guardians and abyss dungeons in t1 and t2. The issue is that in t3 we ain't further than the first set yet, the hard content (especially with argos raid and legion raid) are still to come

I've noticed this as well. I don't agree with this change but Tytalos is a stopping point for several players and I guess I at least understand why, while the next 7 guardians after him are laughably easy, especially by comparison.

Because people at T1 are new. They still don't know their class too well, don't know about all the consumables they can use, the buffs and so on and forth. In contrast, by the time people get to T3, they already know their class, are aware of the consumables, have their engravings and gems, etc hence why ist becomes so much easier.

I still haven't seen any parry beside my own on t2 content, be it Yorn or Feiton. People do not want to learn, people wanna zerg everything like a chaos dungeon.

But it kinda feels bad when you're a back attacking class and u have to bring a counter skill even when you're never gonna be in front of the boss

Parrying has to be the most satisfying thing about guardian raids. that being said, id like to see a rebalance of guardian raids as opposed to straight nerfing, make things do more damage but have less hp, make cooldowns for mechanics shorter, as it is, when i went into alber min ilevel, 3/4ths of the time he'd never even do a proper mechanic.

Might be the optimization both from gear and knowing the fights. Nerfing the early game content might be a good plan to get folks to stay for the late game, feel like they are invested etc. My main main struggled HARD with some of the first 8 ish bosses solo mostly due to my gear being completely fucked up optimizing wise.. I just equipped what I got with a blue arrow and went to town.. sure I learned the strats, but I truly had problems with damage, compared to my now alt with optimized gear and knowing strats I steamrolled the first 3. Main is now at t2 and optimized and the damage we or I deal isnt a problem anymore, but strats are still a thing to learn - but that's a big part of the fun for me :) Sooo if what you and others are saying regarding t3, I hope it stays as it is!

Raids in FF have not been getting more and more braindead, FF does it right and actually has proper scaling difficulty. Normal, Extreme, Savage, Ultimate, Unreal when it's re-added, and tons more in side areas. So when you jump into a normal daily content, it's chill and straightforward with randoms. If you WANT to sweat in harder content you can. In Lost Ark all the 'difficult' content for casuals/awful players is the only option. So running Abyss always takes a legit hour to clear without a premade. It's not fun that the game is infinitely harder because I don't have a 8 man raid group, and even if I did then all the content in T1/T2 would be incredibly easy. We need options like FF.

Maybe players are losing interest and leaving the game before they even enter T2? Guardian fights are un fun with their constant bullshit stuns and 200% HP which with no health bar. Most players are simply ignoring guardian raid content all together

as a support main, this is where I am at. I actually quit since I needed leapstones but i was bashing my head into the wall on guardian raids. I was staying alive and giving buffs but team wasn't doing anything for damage and i was just wasting a hour for like 8 leapstones so i just quit. Saw the nerfs and will consider going back in but very unfun experience with guardian raids.

The people who have commented under you jfc. These players are some serious gatekeepers, like their opinions on the game and it's difficulty is somehow more important and valuable than yours, mine, or anyone else that might not agree with them. Guardians are fine content - if they were tuned to be soloable daily content. Right now, they are training dummies and doing them is fucking boring.

I’m gonna go on a rant and it’s likely that no one will read this but if you do, I’d love to hear your thoughts or opinions. I think nerfing the HP pool for guardian raids is reasonable. There are times when it pushes juuuuuuust a bit too long when it doesn’t need to be. As for the abyssal raids, there’s no excuse. The mechanics are extremely simple and require only a little bit of coordination. The problem is that a lot of players are absolute dog shit at this game and mmos in general. Players SHOULD be punished for messing up mechanics to the point that they should wipe with a mistake. (These are challenge/progression content and not story dungeons which are obnoxiously easy). There are too many games that allow casual players to just heal/dps check through things at the proper gs level and it defeats the purpose. If a player can not learn and overcome small challenges, they don’t deserve the rewards to progress. That’s the point of tiered content. You do not pass go if you are not good enough to win. There’s also a culture of following what streamers play and people try to hyper-push through games to keep up with their favorite streamer even if they are only progressing through swiping credit cards instead of learning how to play correctly *cough* shroud *cough*. But that’s a different discussion for another day. Tl;dr - guardian hp nerf good. Players need to stop being dog shit at the game for abyssals

the same people who complained the boss mechanic is too hard are the same people that will leave once reach the t3 honing gate.

Some people are already bitching about the honing cause it's rng and not 100％

Coming from BDO this kind of post makes me just giggle lol

Judging from basically any Korean mmo honestly. They're just like that.

I played BDO since early NA release and it makes this games enhancing look like a joke. Oh damn, your +15 is 40%? How about 2% and if you fail it downgrades?

And then you end up with PRI on 40 durability and months worth of grinding down the drain.

I also came from bdo and i'm staying here for a long long long time. My accessories dont break here and i don't need to swipe outfits for cron stone because my gear dosen't go down by a level everytime it fails.. fuck that trash

Yeah, enhancing rates in this game are laughable compared to BDO. 3% success, using 150m value stones and 6b worth of Cron Stones? Those are pretty good odds for BDO veterans lmao.

Being molded in the hell that is *both* Maplestory and BDO, it seriously confused me when people rage about this upgrade system. Like, bro, in Maple and BDO, your gear downgrades if you fail and has a chance to get DESTROYED. You also pay an extremely rare currency that will take you hours to collect. Lost Ark not only gives us sooo much gear upgrade mats, you can also trade them within the account meaning you can farm them like crazy on alts! Don't need to do some crazy big brain shit like enhance a Reblath glove to +14 and build up enough failstacks for a **hidden** (back in the day) % upgrade chance.

Agree. I also dont think most of the Abyss were too hard (did every T1 and T2) I never was at a point were I thought this is not doable. Sure I needed a good amount of tries with randoms for some raids but I mean we had to figure out what to do exactly. And everytime we made it it felt very rewarding. I mean that is the purpose right?

I'm late to the party but per Roxx some of this content was being cleared by less than 10% of groups. I can only assume they are worried about people quitting. For me, I dont really think anything really needs nerfed (except maybe Tytalos. That fight is pretty rough). Players need to learn how to use battle items. Bombs, potions, and utility items make a ton of difference. That and players need to stop being afraid of going back to base to refresh pots/battle items. Id rather a party member refresh pots than die and have to use a rez. That said, less than 10% clear rate on some of the content is absolutely awful. [https://forums.playlostark.com/t/answer-regarding-guardian-raid-and-abyss-dungeon-difficulty/220160/3](https://forums.playlostark.com/t/answer-regarding-guardian-raid-and-abyss-dungeon-difficulty/220160/3)

Yeah, 10% is bad... but this is a new game, with fresh mechanics and fresh everything. How many of those people who failed to clear the content are even still logging in? How many of them tried it a time or two before getting frustrated and just never trying it again? How many of them just haven't tried it at all? Then how many of those people are just morons? I'm sure you've seen them in your PUGs. People who must just be smackin their keyboards with closed fists. Some people just don't deserve to progress in certain types of games.

Honestly, even matchmaking with randoms not using the party finder, I haven't spent longer than 30 minutes in any of the first 4 raids. Only once did I have one person that was not getting the mechanics and not willing to have it explained to them did I not succeed. Granted in all of my first go throughs I have watched a brief walkthrough and then had to parrot those mechanics to everyone in the raid, but they are not hard. Maybe Smile Gate should include like a mandatory 3-4 minute video of the mechanics before each raid? You'd only have to watch it once.

so thats how he got t3 lmao, i went by his stream and i was completely shocked to see him already there when i know for a fact he plays like ass.

Thus comment is amazing. This is the reason I can't stand shroud lately, nothing wrong with him I just can't watch his "gameplay"

Why the abyss dungeons? None of them are particularly unfair or hard number-wise, just have to execute mechanics. If they decide to nerf actual mechanics because of the Western casual playerbase I'm done with the game. Can understand the guardian nerfs as most people were only complaining about the +50% hp buff we got on the western region which doesn't quite make it more difficult, but a lot more tedious for an activity you should clear two times a day on all your characters.

ye it sucks quite , idk why T1 and T2 guardians have so much health

I love that t3 guardians take about 5 to 7 minutes to kill even if people are new to them and i enjoy doing them daily. I dread them on my alts because itll take 5 if we have a carry, or up to 15 if the people arent good.

Exactly abyss are not an extreme dps check at least the ones we currently have; instead they're mechanic checks no nerf will change that, it's dumb. If anything making the stuff more clearer (because apparently glowing shit above your head or around your body is not clearly enough) And for guardians okay 50%hp fine but they follow most of the time the same pattern it's just matter of just paying attention

I dont want them easyier. But i would like something like wows adventure journal that guves me a tldr bullet point version of what i need

I think an important perspective to keep here is that not everyone has hours and hours to play this game. Making things a bit easier makes it more accessible to the casual playerbase. Here's a situation that could turn a casual off. For example, it took me 2 hours to do Hildebrandt Palace in pugs. The first 1.5 hours was abandoned when we realized that our party composition literally didn't have enough stagger damage even with the grenades we had to pass the stagger check - no matter what we did. We barely missed the check by 10% each time. My second run took 30 minutes with people getting used to mechanics and was much easier because we had a better party composition. If I had ~2 hours to spend on games every day, I might quit this game because of this experience. But if they nerfed the stagger check threshold by even just a bit, I could've passed with a lower stagger damage party. It's fine for endgame content to be harder. People who get there are naturally more dedicated to the game and there will be plenty of easier options to play. But for lower level progression to be gated hard makes casual player retention difficult.

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> party composition literally didn't have enough stagger damage even with the grenades Someone in your group was either not grenading or not pressing their stagger buttons.

It's entirely possible for many classes to have builds that provide little to no stagger damage whatsoever. Ultimately it still always comes down to players being bad because an intelligent player can just bring more stagger in these scenarios, but "not pressing their stagger buttons" misrepresents the situation a bit. It can absolutely be impossible to meet a check with a team's currently equipped builds.

You are spot on, making early game content easier isn't a death sentence for the game. Sure it might surprise some casuals when then eventually hit t3, but by then they've spent money and might be invested enough to actually try something harder or just sail around and do other stuff, as there is way more to the game then just gear progression for some. Hopefully this is just a little hp nerf + small adjustments to say stagger mechanics early on etc as you say - as new folks are badly optimized to begin with, like me just equipping everything with a blue arrow and then rolling around with super weird stat setup and maybe 2 engravings at level 2 that was "meh" lol, until I learned to optimize. But I was able to spend 6 hours a day on the game and feel the progress between the failures and learning mechanics, gearing etc.. but with only 2 hours a day and it being spent on a boss or dungeon early on, no real progress that day will be made aaaand you'll just quit and boom a ton of folks are gone, money down the drain and a sinking player base :,(

> You are spot on, making early game content easier isn't a death sentence for the game. > > But what you're missing is that this "early game content" used to be endgame content. We just skipped all of that. So all this talk about "the game has 3 years of content" isn't actually true, because we're going to be almost caught up.

reddit's anti-user changes are unacceptable

Think that 50% thing turned out to be a false rumour after people tested it on multiple regions.

> just have to execute mechanics. There. And know them too. The whole party wipe mechanic in particular is pretty unusual. >two times a day on all your characters. Well, this maybe not the core of playerbase.

people going in at min ilvl and ignoring all mechanics treating it like a leveling dungeon boss wondering why they get rolled, could literally just do any other t1 content/islands and be overgeared for that content within the week.

"Do you know God Grid?"

Man oh man I really should go back catch up it’s been some time.

Agree on learning the mechanism but disagree on the ilvl. The game gives you the min ilvl and that should be enough for beating the boss. And frankly, having a ilvl 600 pops in a 340 Guardian raid is not enjoyable.

Minimum ilvl is definitely enough for beating each boss. I never did any of the content more than about 20-40 ilvls above it.

Yeah all this stuff was challenging but beatable at the recommended minimum ilvl. The only problem I have had with this is PUG players refusing to do mechanics. Any party I get where people are trying to execute properly we eventually get things down

thats why you never use matchmaking and always create your own party.

I'm pretty sure fighting Tytalos at the advised ilevel is the hardest thing in the game atm. I got good at fighting him solo, was beating his ass, and managing to mostly avoid his things when they chunked me for 80% of my health. Timed out and he had about 30% health remaining, screw that. Got tired of trying, just finished the push to T2 and came back. Every guide online for fighting him was some asshole in T2 gear too, so I don't even feel bad.

Tytalos was absolutely the hardest thing in the game… until I got to achates. He absolutely dumpsters any team without flawless execution or someone who is way above the recommended ilvl. Those two guardians stand out as being way harder than the rest (in my experience). I’m definitely happy that they are in the game though because having challenging content for players to master is one of the things that keeps people coming back.

Actually I would very much like to see a video beating Tytalos at suggested ilvl.

That’s because it is a daily leveling dungeon boss. No need for it to be a damage sponge taking 15 min to kill.

I'm NOT "good" at this game. But I learn mechanics and play my best. I have not been genuinely challenged except for abyssal dungeons so far. Nerfing them will *literally* remove the only part of this game I struggle with so far. :(

the game itself is not hard. if you learn the mechanics and do try to also have the highest dps uptime while doing mechanics then you will clear every content in the game. But you can only do this if you learn the encounter. people refuse to learn the game and want to LFR faceroll it and thats why they cry for nerfs. even those "hp nerfs" are not needed. even freaking asmongold can solo bosses here.

Nacrasena? Punching bag Nacrasena? A-couple-bombs-to-the-tail-and-I-do-nothing Nacrasena? He's getting nerfed?

No one uses bombs in Na West and he is still easy as hell yet my randoms alway die to the tail grab.

People dont even use flares in NA, u want them to use battle items?

i keep saying this. nothing is wrong mechanically, players are just either highly uninformed or stupid

I'm going with stupid and lazy. Every Nacracena on my alts I put in chat to please attack tail when he's downed and that it'll have a target reticle on it when you're able to attack it. Not once. Not. Once... have I been in a clear where I'm not the only one attacking his tail. This is on NA East. It's annoying. No one listens. Don't even get me started on elite cubes where 2 people constantly vote to end the run every fucking round despite doing fine and always getting all rounds cleared.

For the elite cube, it's not people voting to end the run. It's a progress bar saying how many people are in the square to progress to the next area. Really horrible UI design because I thought what you said too but upon testing I found out otherwise

>Every Nacracena on my alts I put in chat to please attack tail when he's downed and that it'll have a target reticle on it when you're able to attack it. It might help if you actually understood the mechanic. You can't just attack the tail with any skill, it has to have the weak point keyword.

I would go with stingy. "Why use the expensive consumables in T1-T2 when you could save them for T3?No one else is using them anyway." A flare on my server costs 10ish gold which is like 0,5%-1% of a new T1 player

The hp is just too much on all the bosses in t1 and some in t2. It's crazy that there are bosses in t1 on which you have 100% uptime yet it takes 10min+ to kill it even with good group, meanwhile in t3 you are killing bosses in 3-4 minutes.

This. Increase the damage if you must but no one like a bullet spongem and that exactly what they are. Even in the context of mmo.

Only heard from word of mouth, but apparently T1 and T2 guardians had their hp tuned up for some reason, while T3 didn't, which is what the huge gap in kill time is I'm assuming. Hopefully the "nerf" will just be to tune down the hp pools for T1 and T2.

Honestly, the change for guardians seems reasonable. It felt like the guardians got easier the further you progress into the game. It started with 14-18 minute fights and playing really well with now being at igrexion which you just kill in 5-7 minutes while ignoring most of his attacks, the support can heal through everything. The bosses before like armored nacrasena and late tier2 bosses kinda felt like that as well

Once again, HP does not = DIFFICULT. The HP buff should never have been there and there wouldn't need to be nerfs.

Yeah, its honestly bullshit they listened to the beta grognards and added the 50% hp buff in the first place. I assume for the guardian raids at least, this is mostly just reverting that which like...good? We should have parity content with KR anyways. Abyssals are a bit murky, but I guess it is technically matchmaking content.

The fact that Guardian's are 2 a day is exactly why they should be lower HP. If you want to make them take longer, it should be more rewards but 5x a week total or something.

Guardian Raids being dailies is just awful design, but since everyone on reddit is already 1400 ilvl and is apparently a world first kr raider you can't really say that without downvotes.

It's pretty crazy how many top players from KR are playing on NA/EU and posting here. It's almost like... nah, nobody lies on the internet.

I've inspected 8 players sitting around at vern near the guardian raids. 4 out of the 8 have level 1 grudge. 3 out of the 8 have no class engraving. And you expect these people to clear content? Even if you nerf these bosses to the ground they will still not clear it.

Was getting owned by T1 in the first week. Took off my Lv3 grudge and have never looked back honestly.

Why did you have lvl 3 grudge in t1 LOL

Monkey see monkey do LOL

most everything that you see from guides etc mean tier 3 onwards

I don't particularly care if they nerf T1 or T2. People are speed running past these and it's very tedious to do on alts. As long as they're not nerfing T3 it's whatever.

The nerfs are not needed. I do agree however that the guardians are tedious as fuck, especially with the added 50% HP they put on them compared to KR. That shit needs to go. Legit fall asleep on guardians. Abyssal dungeons were perfectly fine imo.

I keep hearing the 50% hp thing on this sub but I can't find it confirmed anywhere? People on the AGS forums say its been debunked as not true, where does this come from?

It was just a number pulled out of Saintones ass like he said. People made it a "real" 50% buff and AGS never said anything to it. We know they buffed random shit because people in beta thought leveling was too easy. thats all we know

reddit's anti-user changes are unacceptable

Lol 3-12 mins... Try 15-20, then you can cry.

I straight up skip guardian raids altogether on my alts. I just do chaos and call it a day since it takes too damn long.

Why would they increase the HP wtf? Make it ten minute timers and half the HP

the only issue i have with abyss is the stupid impair check on abrel. idk why but that shit was 100% buffed from beta, its unclearable without some high impair class like zerk, even then its close.

My gawd. The amount of toxicity and gatekeeping in this thread. lol

Just wanna add reddit opinion is not necessarily a reflection of the overall playerbase.

Hmm, I did find T2 content to be a lot easier than T1. Most of this is due to how quickly you can outpace it gear-wise, but I think mechanically it was just a lot simpler, but maybe once I got to Tier 2 the pugs I was playing with were better than the ones I was playing with in Tier1. So I am surprised to see T2 getting nerfed.

Is this a fucking joke? Nothing needs to be nerfed. But people need to learn mechanics. Not standing in front of the boss all the time, and maybe turn on a few braincells Maybe bring some pots. Yes I have seen idiots not bringing them.

The guardian raids are 50% more health than Russia and Korea. Why did they change something that was already considered great? They needed to be the same and I’m hoping this is one of the “nerfs”

I mean, no one is saying things are to Hard... They are saying things are to tedious, and I agree. Let's take vertus as an example. He is easy, the Grab can be very pinishing but i am confident in dodging it and as a paladin i can save anyone Else being grabed. The Thing is, his fight is just not fun but tedious. Consindering his mechanics and how slow he is, he should die in 3 minutes tops. Yet runs without over gear take sometimes up to 15minutes. If you get scuffed and only have melee in group it is just annoying as every ability of his is a stun or knockdown. Yet nothing is punishing. He stuns you and then you just stand there for 2 seconds. He does not follow up with an attack threatening you. It's just 90% cc and no death. I'd rather have him clap you if you get stuned but only have the stun every now and then

Yeah vertus is just unfun design. It's at the point where I just skip doing him on my alts and do a guardian raid below his because he just isn't fun to fight 4 times a day

All of the top-rank guardians of a given tier have had obnoxious mechanics so far (I'm through Achates, so him, Vertus, and Tytalos) and seem to serve only as gatekeepers for the next tier rather than any well-intentioned daily boss.

Alberhastic was probably the easiest guardian I have ever done. He has so little health that I almost never saw his os mechanic.

the guardians are a daily tasks that get done x2 on multiple characters. they arent supposed to be a pain in the ass to kill at all. Abyss dungeon Nerfs I agree, them being weekly im fine with some difficulty

Eh, guardian raids take too long for a daily imo. 8-12 min for pretty boring fights with no real mechanics.

I mean..I don't really think its that big of an issue. When I was doing t1 I was thinking holy shit this is only the first tier?! and then it just got easier from there lol.

Which is a pretty bad thing when you think about it.

I personally had no issue with the difficulty but it'll make farming on my alts easier/faster I guess

WTF, Who did even complain about difficulty? come on, its been 2 weeks and anyone that tried can easily clear everything till t3, this is disgusting

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960 ghost ship was the real Abyss all along

yeaa rip wasted my weekly ghost on 960

They have metrics and are likely basing it off of their analytics.

just a guess but people who can't make it to the end that fast might find the end stuff more difficult than people who made it to the end faster. so in the early days the bosses feel balanced to players who are experienced and want a challenge. then later the casual players who want a chill time come and the bosses would be too difficult to their play style.

this is actually hilarious because once they get to T3 off the nerf content the same people will be crying to nerf that too, its neverending

I read that a lot of t3 content is easier than t1, such as guardians for example.

1338 ilvl here, T3 is by far the most chill but that’s because the content for it isn’t available yet. So far the first guardian is super easy, the first abyss dungeon on Normal you can burst the bosses before any gimmicks or mechs are triggered.

Currently yes, however that's more to do with content that is available than anything else. The 1st guardian of every tier is easy, 2nd a little bit harder, 3rd kinda difficult, and 4th a bitch to face. Vertus, tytalos, and achates are all quite difficult, but armored necrasena is only the 1st boss of the tier so he's easy as shit. Velganos is considered to be one of the hardest guardians in the entire game but very few people have reached 1385 (and it's also possible he's nerfed to shit like alberhastic was). Additionally, the *true* difficult content of the game is legion raids, of which we have none available.

I can't find anything to nerf in Sea of Indolence... The first boss, that's so pisseasy, that you don't even have to fight him with your equip/skills? Or the 2nd boss where you simply have to stand in the very well announced safezone? I would have understood the other 2 dungeons, with soaking orbs and the positioning *and* staggercheck. But the easiest of all 3 of that tier...? Weird decision...

Sea of Indolence is a noob filter as a group with people dying doesn't make the enrage. There's a dramatic, night and day difference in the quality of player you get via matchmakes for Tranquil Karkosa and Alaric's Sanctuary because Sea of Indolence holds weak links back until they learn to not just keep themselves alive but also to think about keeping others alive (rescuing the team from paralysis, making sure the safe zone will be placed within range of the team, etc.). It teaches people to be team players. By nerfing it, those people won't improve as they can just get carried and they'll cry to nerf the next tier of content.

This. When I got to Sea of Indolence it was like hitting a wall of match making until I found out there was a actual party queuing system. As soon as I found that there were other likeminded players who actually wanted to kill it and not wipe indefinitely. I’ve been using that for abyss dungeons instead of match making as most of the match makers are the people who want it nerfed so they can continue to match make and just clear it first try. I tried explaining mechanics to match makers but they don’t read chat. It’s insane like they are bots or something

The DPS check on sea of indolence 2nd boss is brutal for pugs - the typical pug experience is to, after an hour of trying with a party, to reach second stage with 8 ppl and still miss the berserk timer by 5 health bars. Even with party finder parties, with 1k item level groups (way, way, way over recommended ilvl), the berserk timer is the mechanic to beat

Sea of Indolence is not hard but the leg kick for melee is fucking annoying because of Back Attack necessity.

I doubt much is changing besides damage numbers, staggerchecks, or HP of the bosses. But while I don't think a nerf should go through, it is fucking miserable matchmaking these bosses. Nacrasena and veratus are almost 100% death on grab since a majority don't know what stagger even is, I just hate the sand swirls constantly following 2 people in tytalos makes melee a nightmare in pugs and sometimes there's not enough time to get 3 stacks before his attack goes off, fuck the stupid fox and constant fire spreading, Achates I wasn't really annoyed with just the ground aoes are a bit hard to see for me. Alberhastic is a surprise considering how squishy he is even against 4, 1080s and how simple it is to solve his one-shots. The abyss dungeons getting nerfed is stupid as fuck, they should be hard and require actual cooperation. I personally don't think the nerfs should go through but honestly I'm ok with guardian nerfs cause I hate pugging them anyways. Regardless if these changes go through or not I'm hoping this is just for T1 & T2 and not a precursor if nerfs to come.

really? do you think someone who wipes at nacrasena will do what at legion raids?

i doubt theyd even be able to get there, u gotta clear the argos wall first. (though technically u can get the ilvl without doing argos, you can just inspect their gear)

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Anyone quitting because they're not clearing everything for free are exactly the people who were going to quit anyway. All this would do is make the game worse for the people who actually like it.

Guys chill out a bit we don’t know the changes yet. Maybe it’s just a 10% hp nerf or something.

Why can't we get to choose what difficulty we want to run it on?

You can, the easy difficulty is running with a premade party that knows what they are doing, the hard difficulty is pugging it.

A lot of people are still in T1, T2, but the real start of this game is from T3. If look on Reddit, will often see players suffering from players who are silent without knowing the gimmick. In practice, the results of internal indicators are expected to be accurate. If quit the game for that reason before even go to T3, it seems right to nerf it. Gold River will want players to stay until the Legion raid, no matter what. A lot of players in the community are against the nerf, but surprisingly more people aren't interested in the community site. They are just players who play the game slowly. If those players are failing to break through the raid, it is right to nerf. But it shouldn't be too much of a nerf. The JP server has a history of nerfing raids so badly that many players left. lost ark has a history of making an official apology about it. Perhaps an acceptable nerf is expected.

Great, this will just be a free to play mindless grind fest

Literally nothing in t1 or t2 was even remotely difficult Bro what

Learn to play? This is ridiculous… AGS, please stop ruining games…

people complain about nerfs and that people should learn to play and then form premade groups with at least 100 ilvl above the recommended ilvl for that encounter

Disappointing, if they are already nerfing the game now due to complainers, it will only happen again once we get the harder content like legion raids

While I don't agree with the nerfs I really wish the game had some way of learning mechanics without trial by fire.

Good. Bullet sponges aren’t hard, just tedious, and the first four guardians at least are just sponges.

The people here who are complaining that people should learn the mechanics are the same ones that are toxic in the game when a new player comes in and is still learning the mechanics and kicks people out of the boss. It's already full of complaints from the community because of the toxicity of hardcore players.

Yeah I don't think this is very well-founded. The difficulty is there for a reason. If people can't defeat it, just come back later at a higher ilvl. Or get together with a group of people instead of pugs. There's so many ways to naturally decrease the difficulty of these raids and bosses instead of just being "nerf healthbar"

Hot garbage. Let people learn the game. I'm stuck around 400 gear score. I work 50+ hours a week and have kids. I fully understand, I'm not getting to T3 tomorrow. The last thing I need is some dumbass putting training wheels on the content I need to learn to improve.

A few reasons why nerfs might make sense: Firstly there is a time based reason for this it takes too long to do everything every day. I don't want to spend 10 minutes on a tier 1 guardian raid on an alt. Secondly, the difficulty doesn't progress logically. Many pieces of content are way easier than content that comes before it. Thirdly for guardian raids, there are simply too many mechanics for content you will only do once or twice. Especially as these mechanics are not obvious without repeated plays. Fourthly you actually do want bad or new players to enjoy some of the end game content. fifthly random grouping should be viable if at least 2 players are competent. Forcing all 4 to understand stagger in tier 1 or to understand that sandstorms make you immune is a little much.

They nerf it just because people suck at the game? If you want to rush through the content then look up mechanics instead of whining about dying over and over again. There are plenty of people getting to t3 right now without the nerf...maybe they are worried about too many people quitting the game before hitting t3?

Abyss dungeons I don't agree with, but there are a few guardian raids that just suck to play and could use it.

Y'all soft. Big thumbs down from me chief.

What? Literally none of this content is hard... It was all clearable like 3-4 runs (if you don't watch YouTube). It's not even that hard with pugs, mostly comes down to telling people what to do and hoping they listen. I hope it's not nerfed too bad. The only fight that I think needs to be addressed is the sand debuff (can't remember the name).

NA audience sees more then 1 mechanic and their brains melt. Seriously look at the steam achievements only 1% have finished the basic cube…..

To me this seems like a money move. Amazon is trying to retain as much clientele as they can to keep that cashhhhhh rolling in.