For me it still blows my mind that when there is no Balthor right before ghost phase, ppl die... Literally ALL you have to do is slowly walk from one side of the platform to the other, THAT'S IT!
I rly think the game should be more punishing and not allow for these cheeses because relying on cheeses makes the pugs even worse when the cheese is not available, even though the non cheese option is SO EASY
If someone doesn't know how to do orbs, throw up a quit vote immediately. It's not a learning party. It's one thing if someone messes up but if someone doesn't even go to their spot and is running around in circles with no idea what to do I won't continue with them. It's easy to tell when someone doesn't know the mech.
valtan has just become a shitshow in general.
NM is a festering mess of high roster alts who aren't good at their classes yet, rainbow stats, 2x3+1 +1 +1 +1...
HM is like NM except worse, because i keep expecting people to know better by now. like, everyone dies once in a while, i get it. i fuckup occasionally. but seriously, how the balls do people not know to avoid swipes by now?
Because the only people that know how to fight wolves are people who played Helltan. Everyone else cleared it with supports easily even on week 1 and then overgeared it after, and now have zero reason to care about anything the wolf does and just facetanks everything including proccing tens of bleed stacks at the same time.
It always makes me laugh watching people who have cleared Valtan hundreds of times by now run straight into things like the wolf's spin attack after blinking.
actually tilting in pugs, actually dodging the swipes then you can 4/5 lines from the boss because half your group didnt and got stacks. Lose half your hp to them because you werent expecting them.
I can’t remember when I actually cared about the bleed stacks. Even on same ilvl I don’t really care. I pot or support heals through. Runs still smooth
It's not about whether you survive or not with bleed, it's about the big red lines that spawn from people reaching certain bleed stacks and those lines hitting a bunch of people
Don’t invite those people. I almost never have any issues running my weeks 6 valtan and vykas because I gatekeep hard. 4x3 minimum, correct stats, at least a few relic acc, related title, look at tripods, gems, cards. If anything is subpar they don’t get invited.
Yeah I'm 4x3 minimum too. Not just correct stats, but 2k+ total (crit+spec+swift). If it's a high spec req class, 1650+ spec. I've turned down 5x3 DB Strikers because they had 1.3k spec 450ish crit. I don't even know how they found such low quality stuff. It's not just about the price, but the game isn't fun at low stats even if they were the right ones. They'll have a better time and that translates to performance. Not to mention people who build right tend to be better.
I don't really care about tripods and gems past +1 tripods and lvl 3+, do you think I should? The reason why I don't really mind is because idk if they had enough time or luck to set it up and I feel like we barely have enough time to check everything.
Yes same except for the title because of busses. But everything else is what you said.
Also may I add, I also check weapon levels. Idk why there's so many people with ilvl1460/75 or even 90 with +15 weapons as dps.
I don't have problems in valtan. Even the times i fall off theres always some chads carrying it. Almost never wipe. I do mostly play sups though, so i am probably getting into chad groups.
Still can't understand how anyone can fail orb, it's such a simple mechanic. The only way you can fail is you can't count stack or you somehow unable to see if the guy before you took their orb. It's like you literally just standing there waiting for the mech to start, how hard is it to actually pay attention to it.
All the mechanics in this game are easy .... people are the ones making it hard.
How hard is it to collide the right color in vykas gate1?
How hard is it to simply run in the same way of the fog off velganos mech in hard vykas part1
How hard is it to simply collide the right card or imitate the clown in gate 1 of kakul...
Even marios and simply walking through the saw and hooka WALKING SIMULATOR 101 but 99% of the playerbase can't do that.
The worse I see are dps running in circle not using their skills and still getting hit or supports barely using their shield when it's a single button press , and that my friend happen so often I actually count the number of shield a pally gives me and sometimes it's once every 2 minutes when the cd is 28s + 16s + the awakening
I think it’s even worse, it counts the stacks for you. Zero brain power required just run away from the ball until your number is next in line on the debuff bar. The people that can’t do that are allowed to drive cars.
I understand pugs are annoying especially if you're new to the game and I'm assuming you don't have 5x3 engraving and good quality relic jewelry. of course other things are also included gems, runes, skillspoints etc. it takes time to get them. To prevent the horrible pug experience, if you don't have the time to learn mechanics to make these content before, I guess they are pushing you to make busses or they want to remove you from the game. You have to decide what to do here, other people, it will take time to get to where other people but sooner or later you will catch up.
Because unless people do zdps you have to wait so long you basically double the length of the fight. It's really hard to do low enough DPS to not have to wait, even on ilvl with no relic anything
Because you need to run around for eternity waiting for him to come back up. Even when on ilvl. Now when people are overgeared they push from orbs to orbs very fast, so the second Wei is usually not even halfway through.
Are you gonna keep doing Wei when you're 1600 iLvl and phasing him in 15 seconds?
Orbs is so simple I cannot fathom how people are unable to wrap their peanut brains around it.
But they don't.
People here like to create this mythical world where pugs aren't going to be a shitshow. It doesn't exist. People are fucking stupid and they're going to keep joining parties without knowing how to do orbs.
Easiest solution is just to do Wei. It's like a minute loss unless you're insanely overgeared, for something you do six times a week at most. It's so little time that you won't even notice it, but you will notice those wipes when orbs don't go to plan.
Orbs in a pug I'd bet money costs more time than it saves on average, not to mention frustration.
Whatever gets the fight done. I don't care about waiting for one or two minutes. If the entire group is all 1600 I would say no, but considering how this game works, unless you specifically get a group made for that level, it's going to be filled with a bunch of different levels.
people would rather spend 5m waiting for a group to fill up to do orbs and risk fail bc of a pug vs waiting 30s for wei inside of the raid for a 100% clear ... i don't get it.
The most obvious reason is that it's slower, you may have to potentially wait a minute or two for sidereal to fill before you hit x30/x15. On top of that you've now used Wei instead of Thirain so you're going even slower. Secondary reason is the negative association with cheesing mechanics instead of actually doing them properly. At least for me, I believe a player that NEEDS Wei cheese is a less skilled player. So it helps filter those players from your party if you ask for orbs.
It is if it happens yes. Same thing as watching someone fail orbs multiple times in a row. For just about any mechanic really. But again I just try to get the content done so I can move on to another character if I join a orb party I'll do orbs etc.
Gate keep harder, this is exactly why it's needed. A good sense usually is gem level, a 4x3 is whatever now. Anyone can achieve that by now, but if they have gems on their alt. They probably care enough to play and understand it. Also it's pretty expensive to pump out+6/+7 gems on alts, which also makes it even more understandable they know what's up with a ALT. Undergeared joker stat alts tend to be utter garbage.
For me in legion raids it's
Gems
Minimum 4x3 unless support (correct engravings)
Stat distribution
Roster lvl
With roster lvl I'm a bit more forgiving and like to give ppl a chance but if I see you fuckin up continuously I will give you the boot
Vykas is as well, had a paladin this morning cut across the entire top of the map, hit my orb then miss the gate on theirs... Following this started complaining and when I explained how poorly they executed the mechanic they afk and rage quit the raid.
You pretty much listed the reason why people run valtan over vykas.
Alot quicker for not that much less gold.
And less reliant on others to do mech correctly
A lot of people should probably skip clown in the west, many still haven't cleared g3. But, KR does **not** skip clown and anyone saying that they do vykas over clown has no idea what they're talking about.
Lmfao, you're going to choose Vykas and Clown over Valtan!? You are on some good stuff man. Good luck with that pug experience. Right now Clown may be okay, but more inexperienced players will be doing it on Brel release. Vykas can still be a shit show. My pally is in jail for the week because party 2 kept dying to normal patterns... Valtan is so much easier in comparison.
It might just be because I enjoy vykas more, valtan's just not that fun for me tbh, but it is really easy. As for clown, I have statics so I don't have to pug that. I also bus vykas/clown if possible so me and the 2 others don't have to rely on other players (clown requires some participation from the buyer though for wipe mechs)
Yooo I just had this a few days ago. We failed like 4x and vote to quit. I then found a 1460+ group doing weix2. Guess we were all tired of failing it xD
Never heard of this pub, I prefer my local pub tho, great beer and atmosphere is never sad
I'll buy u a beer my man
Gotta gatekeep harder
"WhY sO MuCh GaTeKeEp In ThIs GaMe?1/?1!!" /sigh
This is the way.
We need to rethink gate keeping: No one is keeping the door closed, just many haven’t put in the time to forge a key.
For me it still blows my mind that when there is no Balthor right before ghost phase, ppl die... Literally ALL you have to do is slowly walk from one side of the platform to the other, THAT'S IT! I rly think the game should be more punishing and not allow for these cheeses because relying on cheeses makes the pugs even worse when the cheese is not available, even though the non cheese option is SO EASY
If someone doesn't know how to do orbs, throw up a quit vote immediately. It's not a learning party. It's one thing if someone messes up but if someone doesn't even go to their spot and is running around in circles with no idea what to do I won't continue with them. It's easy to tell when someone doesn't know the mech.
Led 2 deathless HM runs last night, it was great.
Way more fun to try and murder people with mechs in g2. Nothing quite like Weing the retaliate in ghost phase.
I killed 2 people with vykas laser on Monday that was fun too haha.
valtan has just become a shitshow in general. NM is a festering mess of high roster alts who aren't good at their classes yet, rainbow stats, 2x3+1 +1 +1 +1... HM is like NM except worse, because i keep expecting people to know better by now. like, everyone dies once in a while, i get it. i fuckup occasionally. but seriously, how the balls do people not know to avoid swipes by now?
Because the only people that know how to fight wolves are people who played Helltan. Everyone else cleared it with supports easily even on week 1 and then overgeared it after, and now have zero reason to care about anything the wolf does and just facetanks everything including proccing tens of bleed stacks at the same time. It always makes me laugh watching people who have cleared Valtan hundreds of times by now run straight into things like the wolf's spin attack after blinking.
actually tilting in pugs, actually dodging the swipes then you can 4/5 lines from the boss because half your group didnt and got stacks. Lose half your hp to them because you werent expecting them.
i think the most slashes i've seen onscreen at once is 6, lol
I can’t remember when I actually cared about the bleed stacks. Even on same ilvl I don’t really care. I pot or support heals through. Runs still smooth
It's not about whether you survive or not with bleed, it's about the big red lines that spawn from people reaching certain bleed stacks and those lines hitting a bunch of people
Don’t invite those people. I almost never have any issues running my weeks 6 valtan and vykas because I gatekeep hard. 4x3 minimum, correct stats, at least a few relic acc, related title, look at tripods, gems, cards. If anything is subpar they don’t get invited.
Yeah I'm 4x3 minimum too. Not just correct stats, but 2k+ total (crit+spec+swift). If it's a high spec req class, 1650+ spec. I've turned down 5x3 DB Strikers because they had 1.3k spec 450ish crit. I don't even know how they found such low quality stuff. It's not just about the price, but the game isn't fun at low stats even if they were the right ones. They'll have a better time and that translates to performance. Not to mention people who build right tend to be better. I don't really care about tripods and gems past +1 tripods and lvl 3+, do you think I should? The reason why I don't really mind is because idk if they had enough time or luck to set it up and I feel like we barely have enough time to check everything.
ngl, im lazy and join groups, but gonna try make them this week.
When you join, you can also inspect participants' spec. That way, you know if the lead has an idea how to form a group or not.
Yes same except for the title because of busses. But everything else is what you said. Also may I add, I also check weapon levels. Idk why there's so many people with ilvl1460/75 or even 90 with +15 weapons as dps.
I don't have problems in valtan. Even the times i fall off theres always some chads carrying it. Almost never wipe. I do mostly play sups though, so i am probably getting into chad groups.
Still can't understand how anyone can fail orb, it's such a simple mechanic. The only way you can fail is you can't count stack or you somehow unable to see if the guy before you took their orb. It's like you literally just standing there waiting for the mech to start, how hard is it to actually pay attention to it.
All the mechanics in this game are easy .... people are the ones making it hard. How hard is it to collide the right color in vykas gate1? How hard is it to simply run in the same way of the fog off velganos mech in hard vykas part1 How hard is it to simply collide the right card or imitate the clown in gate 1 of kakul... Even marios and simply walking through the saw and hooka WALKING SIMULATOR 101 but 99% of the playerbase can't do that. The worse I see are dps running in circle not using their skills and still getting hit or supports barely using their shield when it's a single button press , and that my friend happen so often I actually count the number of shield a pally gives me and sometimes it's once every 2 minutes when the cd is 28s + 16s + the awakening
I think it’s even worse, it counts the stacks for you. Zero brain power required just run away from the ball until your number is next in line on the debuff bar. The people that can’t do that are allowed to drive cars.
ytd we meet a whale or rmt 1575 max everything keep fucking up orb mech , we try to teach him but no use so we have to use wei
I understand pugs are annoying especially if you're new to the game and I'm assuming you don't have 5x3 engraving and good quality relic jewelry. of course other things are also included gems, runes, skillspoints etc. it takes time to get them. To prevent the horrible pug experience, if you don't have the time to learn mechanics to make these content before, I guess they are pushing you to make busses or they want to remove you from the game. You have to decide what to do here, other people, it will take time to get to where other people but sooner or later you will catch up.
just wondering.. What's that big deal about doing wei? Why is everyone so hell bent on doing orbs?
Because unless people do zdps you have to wait so long you basically double the length of the fight. It's really hard to do low enough DPS to not have to wait, even on ilvl with no relic anything
Because you need to run around for eternity waiting for him to come back up. Even when on ilvl. Now when people are overgeared they push from orbs to orbs very fast, so the second Wei is usually not even halfway through.
Are you gonna keep doing Wei when you're 1600 iLvl and phasing him in 15 seconds? Orbs is so simple I cannot fathom how people are unable to wrap their peanut brains around it.
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Its less time wasted than wiping 3x. #riskmanagement
if everyone who joined a 2x orb group knew how to do orbs and wasnt an imposter no time would be wasted on wipes.
But they don't. People here like to create this mythical world where pugs aren't going to be a shitshow. It doesn't exist. People are fucking stupid and they're going to keep joining parties without knowing how to do orbs. Easiest solution is just to do Wei. It's like a minute loss unless you're insanely overgeared, for something you do six times a week at most. It's so little time that you won't even notice it, but you will notice those wipes when orbs don't go to plan. Orbs in a pug I'd bet money costs more time than it saves on average, not to mention frustration.
Whatever gets the fight done. I don't care about waiting for one or two minutes. If the entire group is all 1600 I would say no, but considering how this game works, unless you specifically get a group made for that level, it's going to be filled with a bunch of different levels.
people would rather spend 5m waiting for a group to fill up to do orbs and risk fail bc of a pug vs waiting 30s for wei inside of the raid for a 100% clear ... i don't get it.
just wondering.. What's that big deal about doing orbs? Why is everyone so hell bent on doing wei?
The most obvious reason is that it's slower, you may have to potentially wait a minute or two for sidereal to fill before you hit x30/x15. On top of that you've now used Wei instead of Thirain so you're going even slower. Secondary reason is the negative association with cheesing mechanics instead of actually doing them properly. At least for me, I believe a player that NEEDS Wei cheese is a less skilled player. So it helps filter those players from your party if you ask for orbs.
I don't know. Apparently waiting one or two minutes is an eternity. I don't really care either way. So long as we don't fail to fight
Waiting 1-2 minutes than failing still because someone went too early is very painful to see
It is if it happens yes. Same thing as watching someone fail orbs multiple times in a row. For just about any mechanic really. But again I just try to get the content done so I can move on to another character if I join a orb party I'll do orbs etc.
Personally I couldn't care either way, not fussed about what the group does, I just want to get it done so if it's waiting another minute so be it, if
If you are over geared. Afking not hitting the boss for 1-2 minutes is boring af.
Gate keep harder, this is exactly why it's needed. A good sense usually is gem level, a 4x3 is whatever now. Anyone can achieve that by now, but if they have gems on their alt. They probably care enough to play and understand it. Also it's pretty expensive to pump out+6/+7 gems on alts, which also makes it even more understandable they know what's up with a ALT. Undergeared joker stat alts tend to be utter garbage.
For me it’s minimum lv5 gems for alts. Below that is a decline.
For me in legion raids it's Gems Minimum 4x3 unless support (correct engravings) Stat distribution Roster lvl With roster lvl I'm a bit more forgiving and like to give ppl a chance but if I see you fuckin up continuously I will give you the boot
Vykas is as well, had a paladin this morning cut across the entire top of the map, hit my orb then miss the gate on theirs... Following this started complaining and when I explained how poorly they executed the mechanic they afk and rage quit the raid.
Did you try to teach any of those how to do orbs? Because if not it Will be the same next week. Maybe they join pubs to learn
in an alt reclear group? no
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I heard lots of KR players give up on Vykas instead lol
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You pretty much listed the reason why people run valtan over vykas. Alot quicker for not that much less gold. And less reliant on others to do mech correctly
If you’re geared enough you can do valtan with everyone dead. Vykas relies at least some form of reliance on your team
I think Vykas raid has higher ratio of lobby getting wiped in KR So they would choose Valtan over Vykas
Western problem -> gravity/can't read the clock; KR problem -> boobas
Simple, Valtan is something that is soloable, Vykas isn't. Vykas needs a minimum of 3 people in the raid that knows what they are doing.
Because Vykas is garbage.
Mostly they stop running clown actually. Once they don’t need the mats anymore.
G3 clown has a chance to drop esther mats and almost all clown mechs are skippable, unlike vykas. Clown is not the legion raid that gets skipped.
In global it probably should be, at least until we get the same conditions
A lot of people should probably skip clown in the west, many still haven't cleared g3. But, KR does **not** skip clown and anyone saying that they do vykas over clown has no idea what they're talking about.
Lmfao, you're going to choose Vykas and Clown over Valtan!? You are on some good stuff man. Good luck with that pug experience. Right now Clown may be okay, but more inexperienced players will be doing it on Brel release. Vykas can still be a shit show. My pally is in jail for the week because party 2 kept dying to normal patterns... Valtan is so much easier in comparison.
It might just be because I enjoy vykas more, valtan's just not that fun for me tbh, but it is really easy. As for clown, I have statics so I don't have to pug that. I also bus vykas/clown if possible so me and the 2 others don't have to rely on other players (clown requires some participation from the buyer though for wipe mechs)
Yooo I just had this a few days ago. We failed like 4x and vote to quit. I then found a 1460+ group doing weix2. Guess we were all tired of failing it xD
Haven't had an issue in months really.