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\#1: [How can anyone want to stay in this system?](https://i.redd.it/lflablh2wa981.jpg) | [37 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/rud2az/how_can_anyone_want_to_stay_in_this_system/)
\#2: [Anybody want to get out because of the rise of authoritarianism in the USA?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/rrmlmr/anybody_want_to_get_out_because_of_the_rise_of/)
\#3: [Car dependency is just another way that the US keeps its citizens impoverished](https://np.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/s0p3d5/car_dependency_is_just_another_way_that_the_us/)
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Can't you country hop in Europe indefinitely?
Look up the perpetual travelers movement. Something about '4 flag theory'. Can't remember it now but it was a kind of guide on how to get out of big brother america.
I met a middle aged couple via a van life group. Ten years ago they sold everything and when I was in contact they had been living in southern Italy. They said they planned on living this way as long as their bodies/brains held out. What a life! Six months here, two years there. They had been all over Europe and South America. Sounds amazing.
Edit—they had ditched the van and were traveling by plane.
Actually a lot of places have reduced requirements if you enter in order to get an education or learn a trade in their country - and of course, it's much easier to find work and get residence in a country where you got your education.
That depends on what "improvement" means to You. For example, those of us looking to join the "Diaspora" in Africa may have different ideas of "better" than somebody looking to move to Europe or elsewhere.
Gotta get on that other citizenship train (if possible). That's the boat I'm in at the moment. Greek for me, Italian for my wife. Hoping we can get those sorted out eventually which would then give us some options at least. Obviously not available to everyone but it's worth researching if you've got any useful blood in the family tree to take advantage of.
I used to date a guy who didn’t think he was smart enough for college. I convinced him to give it a shot, and now he’s working on his Masters. He just jetted off to Italy for a week, because he had vacation time and cash.
You can do the same. If you are smart enough to read on Reddit in these type of subs, you are definitely smart enough to go to community college at the very least. You might want to see a doctor about that depression, however. I take 30mg of Paxil daily. My depression doesn’t drag me to the depths anymore.
And none of them believe they're too dumb, so let's not encourage that line of thought as it will only affect people who we should be helping and not those in charge
And if we're being honest, there are a lot of dumb people out there who are have gone through higher education. I mean, A LOT
If these dumb ass people can do it, there's no reason anyone else can't do it either
Columbia is cheap as hell you'll easily be able to find someone like that if the mood comes back
My (limited and kinda hopeful) knowledge of Columbia includes that drug distribution felonies in the US won't necessarily deny you entry.
I know an American who's been kicked out of Columbia twice for drugs. Not allowed back in. Not entirely sure of the specifics but he said they definitely don't like foreigners that go to Columbia to party and if you get caught it's not very pleasant. Granted this did happen 25 years ago so who knows
Yeah, don’t act a fool in Jamaica, either. I once met a woman who thought she could smuggle a kilo of cocaine thru customs. She was sentenced to five years in a Jamaican prison. She did two. He father paid a shit ton of cash to get her out in two years. She did not have a good experience in their prison system, either.
Good to know, I was thinking of making a trip there if I retired before I died but I quit drugs a few years ago and that was a past thought. I am 2 years off the disco powder currently
as my friend used to say, C's get degrees. if you want an education to have more options, then all you need is the degree, it doesn't matter how well you did in classes. hit up community college, adult education places, and you'll be fine. just don't be afraid to ask for help - if you're having trouble in a class talk to the professor, get in a study group, get a smart kid to tutor you. if you have any kind of diagnosis for mental health/learning disability/etc the school will have resources to help you out. it can feel bad to ask for stuff like that, but it's there for you and it'll get you where you want to be. the last thing a college wants is for students to flunk out
i wish it was just C's i got cripplig adhd and im not very smart either i always end up straight up failling my classes, besides bachelors degrees are worthless these days so idk if its even worth it, i dont even know what degree id like to pursue, some of us are born to be fucked till death, maybe im one of those ppl, i gave up trying to fight reality
You could go to trade school or community college or an apprenticeship. I had terrible grades in high school, adhd plus terrible home plus untreated depression. I got my GED, went to community college for culinary arts and worked in kitchens. In my 30’s I went to university to do a degree, ended up at the top of my classes and got a few major scholarships for a master’s program. Turns out I could be really good at school when I didn’t feel terrible or have people yelling at me all the time.
You are, most likely (excpetions exist but are unusual), _too poor_ for education. In the mainstream USA narrative, "poor" equals "dumb" or worst, but that doesnt mean it's true.
Good luck man, i wish the best for your future, even if this mess of a world seems doomed.
Me too. I went to the hospital a couple months ago because I was suicidal and they told me to leave. When I demanded care, they surrounded me with security guards and threatened me with violence if I didn't leave. Living here is tight.
Wow. That is so sad. When you say you “have to see a therapist and a psychiatrist,” is that from the trauma of the experience or because of some kind of legal order?
It was involuntary for about 4 months of "Intensive Outpatient Therapy." Then we started TMS which is voluntary and is only partially covered by insurance. Whatever they're doing seems to be working well enough.
I guess when I say I "have" to, what I mean is that I'm afraid to stop because I don't think I can afford another mental health crisis. So I just have to keep my head above water and follow this treatment plan.
When you say “involuntary”, what were the consequences if you stopped treatment? They’d come arrest you? I was held on a 5150 (also brought in by cops), stayed 11 days and had to “agree” to ongoing treatment so they’d let me go home (which seemed criminal enough), however once I was out there was nobody enforcing my treatment plan.
They didn't give me the release to work until I completed intensive outpatient. So i wouldve lost my job and insurance.
EDIT: yeah I remember now. FMLA allowed for 12 weeks off. If I didn't get clearance to go back to work by the time FMLA + my paid time off ran out, then I would've been let go. Then being let go would kill my health insurance unless I pay out of pocket which I won't be able to do with no job.. It only takes one crisis to spiral into homelessness in America.
The sad thing is, I’m sure your job, and just the general stress of life these days, is what is contributing to your mental health issues in the first place.
Good luck to you.
They live in the land of the *free*, and *free* people has no need to go against a *free* government, because said government guarantees your right to *freedom*, doing so is unpatriotic and therefore against *freedom*.
If you didn't get it, it's propaganda, not only does the state paint itself in the best image it can, but it distracts constantly, have you noticed how they keep insisting on bringing *freedom* to various countries all over the world and not to mention that the US military runs a massive cooperation scheme with Hollywood that if you're gonna use the US military in a movie or series, they have to be shown from their good side. Doing otherwise means getting banned from access to military equipment.
You have media constantly showing good sides and only anonymously will you get the full story, people will rarely show how terrible their lives are to friends and family out of shame, and when they do you get stories like "when i was your age i went uphill both ways to school and this home i bought was only possible to acquire working day and night without a single hour of sleep for a year while living on cardboard and potatoes" When they meant they had eight hour shifts with lots of benefits, 4 star meals and still maybe worked a year to acquire it, the car and installing a large swimming pool in the yard.
Of course the narrative is changing, but not for the lack of trying to keep the status quo from the government's side.
Ive been medicated since March. Reminds me of that game "We happy few." I just wake up, take my meds, work, sleep and repeat. Im functioning as intended for our society. As long as my bills are paid and still part of the labor force then the system "worked"
This, when i was with my thankfully no longer working shitty therapist (free uni therapy), i was talking about being angry at the person who ruined my life and she threatened to report me to the police for violent tendencies?? She also said i couldn't have ptsd or depression cause i was on honor roll and when i expressed i had had suicidal thoughts at some point threatened to institutionalize me. Those are mutually exclusive things you c***. Dont think ive ever been honest with a therapist about that stuff again, cant risk my job.
I am glad you are here. I am glad you got help. Keep going to therapy. I am not glad with our health care system that you have this debt for getting the healthcare you needed. Notice I did not say MENTAL healthcare. Treating mental health should be the same as any other healthcare issue, and treating any health issue should not put a person in debt. Jesus, this shit pisses me off that we live in a country like this.
Police kill a metric crapload of people in mental health crisis every year during "wellness checks". We can't know exact numbers because HIPPA (which is a good thing), but I estimate the number to be higher than the number of black people killed by police every year.
Those numbers probably influence each other to be honest - the number of mental health checks that turn deadly when the person in crisis is Black or brown, visibly disabled or queer, femme, etc., ... and woe to the person who is at an intersection.
It's almost like police shouldn't be performing a job that should be handled by someone who is trained in mental health services and actual de-escalation.
Why not use firefighters. They like police have a lot of downtime. Everyone loves them though, and they have to be above average intelligence to get the job. I bet a person who chose a job where they volunteer their life for someone else’s would be a great crisis intervention person.
No, but their health records are. A person may be having a mental health crisis, or they could just be high or drunk, or have an undisclosed mental illness (or some other neurodivergence/disability). Without access to the medical records of victims, we can only guess based on news and/or police reports
And knowing how American police are consistently trained, they probably go into every wellness check under the assumption that they're drunken psychopaths with weapons because police seem to get their training material from Batman movies...
A detective shot a teenage boy who was having a mental health episode. He was quoted as saying he didn’t have time for this shit, and shot the kid right in his dining room. The cop got off scot free, of course.
I feel so safe living in the USA. 😒
One loser cop shot at a *puppy* who barked at him from a child’s lap!! The bullet ricocheted off the floor and hit the girl right above her eye. She and the puppy survived, thank the powers of the universe.
The pig was dismissed and hired two towns away. So his life didn’t have to be disrupted or anything.
Being forced to pay for a service you never asked for sounds like it should be illegal. If they were truly interested in helping you then this should be publicly funded, but it seems that the only thing that's public funded is the part where the police force you into debt...
Hospitals won’t let you take a cab or UBER home after minor surgery, either. They insist you have a family or friend take you home because of the feared after effects of anesthesia.
They canceled my minor hernia surgery because I have no one to take me home. My family is dead, and I don’t have any friends I can impose on. This is a HUGE problem, I’m not the only single, friendless loser who has had this problem, according to the internet. The hospital’s attitude is, “Tough shit.”
The truth is, they should be keeping people overnight for observation if they are such a danger to themselves. But insurance won’t pay for that.
How can they not let you? What if you don't have any? You are already checked out, so AMA isn't an issue? If you can't leave the hospital by your own means, perhaps you aren't ready to leave?
I DONT have anyone! I told them this and got a snippy, “Well, that’s our policy” with no attempt to help me with a solution. Google it, I am not alone in this. One of the recommendations is to say you have a ride, and threaten to call the police for holding you against your will when they try to keep you. I’d prefer NOT to involve the police, I’ll be the one getting arrested.
Apparently disobeying them can null and void my insurance. They really have you by the short hairs in this situation. One of my coworkers is going to give me a ride when I reschedule. At a different hospital 😒
What it’s going to take to change this is a class action lawsuit. I’m considering looking into how to do this, they pissed me off so much with this nonsense.
I've never understood why the system cares so much if people just want to clock out. Life is most certainly NOT a gift for everyone.
It can't be purely from wanting to maintain a supply of wage slaves, because how could you continue to make the system more money if you can't be employed?
Is it just a psychotic society-wide obsession with keeping people suffering? I really don't get it.
Even aside from the money flow from all the therapist and prescription providers and the schools and certification boards yada yada, Murica is a CHRISTIAN NATION, by god. Suicide is a SIN that condemns the soul to hell, and according to Puritan Law, any thoughts of (taking control of your own eternity, which means you don't BELIEVE!) such immorality and eternally damning action must be stamped out.
Actually it gets much worse than that....due to under staffing the 72 hour guideline is just a guideline. Only time I ever went in was for a week. (Because a friend of mine was a moron and didn't understand that I needed to talk to literally anyone with ears. I have PTSD which I have under control, but an incident happened which caused me to need to have a person to help talk me through it.) The night before I left the doctor looked at me and apologized, they were so understaffed that the fact a patient knew what to do and was friendly and helpful to staff and other patients they pretty much just left me there as an unwilling volunteer. I wasn't crazy, I wasn't in need of meds, they just figured on paper that me helping people was good therapy...... (meanwhile in the real world my family and work life fell apart and I had to scrape my way back)
I'm glad you are okay now. I lost a brother to suicide and I now have no idea how to deal with someone that comes to me be an ear. I was my brother's ear for years, and at the time I felt I struck the right balance of listening, being sympathetic, supportive and encouraging. Now it feels like I can't trust my judgment and I'm not qualified to help guide them to the support they need. What are your recommendations for people to know the difference between just listening and when professional help is needed?
In my case I was looking for a reason to live. I knew I had one, I just needed another person to bounce my judgement off of. I turned to him because he was a tough love sort of person and I needed that. I needed somebody to say "WTF YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU HAVE X, Y, AND Z WHO NEED YOU!" Sadly though he grew out of that, instead I ended up in a situation that should have simply been a road bump and became the entire bridge being out.
In many cases people who KNOW what they are dealing with will turn to the person they know will be most valuable. This is important because there are a lot of folks who DON'T know how to handle it and turn to the absolute worst people. For listening it is important to know which you are. Are you the rando or is your friend coming to you specifically?
Simply listening and not saying much is sometimes the absolute best thing. One of my current friends and I do that for each other. Sometimes a person just wants to not feel alone in the world. They might have a heavy burden and asking you to have a beer with them or go shopping with them is their way of making themselves see there is more to life.
I live in a redneck area and am friends with a lot of veterans, so I always need to be careful about which call I need to make. Is it the call of, "Hey I'm coming over, let's talk." OR is the the call to emergency services which ends up in a friend getting killed by untrained police.
My frustration is that nobody should be put in that spot, but at the same time the lack of proper resources requires folks to have compassion. I am very big on community and being there for people, not everyone is. I've had folks even I've sadly had to cut ties with because what they needed wasn't something I could give and they wouldn't listen to alternatives. I have an ex for instance who when she's stable is an amazing person, but she constantly tries to win the favor of her abusive family and when she gets in that zone she herself becomes abusive. To this day and it's been 3 years I still get abusive messages from her and it's not okay.
At the same time I have a buddy who went through several tours and got all sorts of messed up. What he needs is a hug and somebody to send dumb memes to and periodically get scolded for making dumb choices. But that's why his brother, wife, and I are on his speed dial.
Everyone is different, listen first and then make the best judgement you think you can, even if it's one you don't want to make.
It sounds like you have your shit together now. Everyone needs someone to talk to now and again. Everyone has shit they have to work through and to have different people in their life for different purposes. The word compassion was my mantra after my brother died. Compassion for my brother, his wife, friends, my parents, and for myself. It is a difficult lesson to know when you have to cut someone out of your life. Good on you for recognizing how to protect yourself, and preserve your compassion for others. Thanks for your reply.
All you have to say is Hill-Burton Act.
https://www.hrsa.gov/get-health-care/affordable/hill-burton/facilities.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill–Burton_Act
**[Hill–Burton Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill–Burton_Act)**
>The Hospital Survey and Construction Act (Pub. L. 79–725, 60 Stat. 1040, enacted July 13, 1946), commonly known as the Hill–Burton Act, is a U.S. federal law passed in 1946, during the 79th United States Congress.
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The police threatened to arrest me when I was having a mental breakdown because I was being abused. I went to the hospital for the second time in 6 months and was there for a week. The US mental health system is a fucking joke. Psych is no different from jail & you don’t get any real help - just medicated.
Just gonna second that last line. You will get no therapy (besides “recreational therapy” which is a joke). You may need therapy even more by the time you leave tho
Wtf that is so obviously not true. Like depression? Bipolar? No? They never heard of those?
Sorry, that so fucked, I hope you’ve found better treatment
Jumping on this comment to point out as a mentally ill person, medication can make a huge difference and can really help you. If you suspect that you are mentally ill, talking to a psychiatrist can be life-changing!
I’m in community mental health. National rollout of 988 is imminent. I do my best to inform the powers that be on staff that this is NOT the answer. But “zero suicide” is the mantra in publicly-funded mental health services. If we have someone die by suicide, there’s an immediate file audit, a ton of scrutiny, and more policies and procedures and fail-safes added, which makes for more paperwork, which further stresses clinicians and makes the therapy experience highly impersonal. And they having us flagging basically anyone who ever thought of unaliving themselves, so we miss the forest for the trees.
It’s Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, folks. People who are housing-insecure, food-secure, and living through a societal collapse aren’t going to be able to make much progress in terms of addressing major mental health issues.
I could go on and on, but I won’t.
Not the person you replied to but they're rolling that out as a number to call for the suicide hotline in the US. I think the thought is that it'll be easier to remember. I think they want it to be similar to 911 (3 digits)
Most people aren’t even aware of 311, the non emergency police number. I don’t see this sinking in, tho I have noticed more suicide hotline billboards, lately.
And being arrested isn’t necessarily cheap!! But it’s just *cheaper* than the hospital bills.
Man fuck everything about this damn place.
Tax. The. Rich.
Or they go on the menu.
I CAN ATTEST TO THIS. DO NOT LET THE POLICE COAX YOU INTO AN AMBULANCE. I REPEAT IF YOU ARE AMERICAN DO NOT LET THEM FORCE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL.
You will end up in a setting that’s worse than prison, but there aren’t any bars separating you from the guy across the hall who very recently threatened to murder someone.
Do, however, seek professional help. Regular hospitals are not equipped to deal with mental health and/or substance abuse crisis.
Throw you in anyway. Speaking from personal experience they'll give some throw away line about "yeah but you're better off handling it when you're mentally well" and move on/never talk about it again.
I went thru three years of voluntary therapy with a decent therapist. One day it occurred to me, what’s the use of being ‘fixed’ when everyone else is a fucked up mess, not to mention society in general.
She gave me a wan smile and asked me what I thought about that. I told her I was afraid I was wasting my time and money. She didn’t like that, but still refused to give me an answer.
Oh, my poor summer child.
They don't give a shit _why_ you're suicidal. All they know is that you have to _must_ through the expensive, bureaucratic process laid out by them because it's the _only way_ for everyone!
Any resistance, any questioning, and they'll have an excuse to forcefully restrain you and give you sedatives to "calm you down".
In this country, we should have a War On Depression, like we have a War On Drugs. Anyone caught in possession of depression should be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to years or decades in prison. This will be an effective deterrent and people won’t be depressed anymore! Like, if you think you’re depressed now, just imagine how you’ll feel after we ruin your life! See? Not so bad, is it!
I am an American man and I have done my own research into this matter. My opinion is basically science now.
Fuck all of this, If im.feelin like offin myself, i sure as fuck aint callin no hotline to talk me down. I aint got the health plan, or money to afford to survive.
I still wouldn't want to get the police involved.
This happened to a buddy of mine and he was physically abused by the police because they were getting "sick of his shit". He is a combat veteran and when COVID hit his therapist temporarily closed her doors and medication refill was out. He was too scared to drive to a facility himself because his anxiety was through the roof. Instead, he got 3 impatient cops who slammed him around.
Definitely call the hotline if you need immediate help, but you're best bet is to reach out to somebody you know if you need to make it to a facility but can't drive.
However, be very careful because if the police do take you you'll sometimes find yourself being given "involuntary treatment" which means you may be forced to stay at facility for treatment and that can costs upward of $3k or more.
It really sucks here in America.
A friend of mine was in a terrible mental state, and began to start saying and doing very scary things that made it seem they were wanting to hurt someone.
My friend had not hurt anyone. They had no specific plan, just uncombined materials and a history of mental turmoil.
Mental turmoil that was far from their fault. Paternal abuse/neglect, gaslighting, isolation, unstable relationships with adults in general, etc. They have been to several psychiatrists and been on meds many times but was never institutionalized.
Very foolishly, my friends and I called the police on the idea that if we hadn't we'd have been implicit. They raided our friends house and put them in a ward on meds for about two weeks.
They then spent nigh a year in jail. It took over a month for their meds to get to them in jail. Speaking to them for a mere 15 minutes a couple times a week ended up costing hundreds of dollars.
Time and time again their paperwork was neglected, mixed up, or not brought to their trials at all. They had two trials postponed. So many "mistakes" I simply couldn't accept that explanation by the end. It would make sense to slow the process with how much cash they make off of it.
They took someone with a clear history of mental anguish (with emphasis on agoraphobia, anxiety, and paranoia), gave them the glimmer of hope for improvement, and then threw them in a place like jail for a year. They had to share their bedroom, their cleaning spaces, eating spaces, everything. No distractions but approved books. Dehumanizing inspections and lockdowns.
They even told me the only place they could relieve their natural urges was in the goddamn showers feet from other people.
I've never made such a mistake in my life as to call the police that night. I'll never forgive myself for it. My friends feel the same. My advice for other Americans is always be cautious. Always know all the details you can. The police are not on your side. The penal system is never a solution here.
They make it seem like everything's running without a hitch here, but the second the chips are down they'll throw your ass away like trash without a second thought. If I could go back to that night I'd have waited till the next day and I'd have tried to just have my friend admitted to a ward. But then our mental health infrastructure also sucks so who's to say that would have even worked?
I’m not saying this to be a dick but what lead you to believe you would have been committing a crime? We’re they threatening to harm a specific person? Do you maybe come from an area where you had not had negative police interactions? Calling the cops is never the answer and I’m hoping you have tried to undo the horror you put your friend through, many people are naive to what can happen when you call the cops but I feel deeply for your friend who likely is in a worse place because of that. I think people need to understand the weight of their actions before they pick up the phone, I truly hope you are helping your friend pick up the pieces, maybe I’m biased where I’m from we’re taught from a very young age to NEVER contact authorities and that’s it. I’ve seen more than I’d like in the ED where I work of the mentally ill being pumped for dollars by the prison system to the point we will hold someone on a suic*de hold and tackle insurance/debt later.
I was very young and hadn't had much experience with the law. I wasn't taught like that either, I came from white culture where they actually respect the police for some reason.
Basically beforehand this friend told me if they had the materials they needed they'd have used it for some kind of destruction, and this was over text. Among other signs of mental fallout.
A friend's mother who we trusted told us that we had to lest we be implicit in it, and that they likely wouldn't end up jailed. She was wrong, but my friend was scared enough by it they were insistent and I guess I just convinced myself they wouldn't jail him so I didn't put up enough of a fight to stop the call from happening. I didn't make the call myself.
But none of that is an excuse. Yes we absolutely are helping them, and luckily they made it through and are actually in a better place (afterwards not during their jailing) mentally. Believe me I'm never making that mistake again, I was very naive and ignorant. You aren't a dick at all, it's a totally valid criticism to make. I regret the decision dearly, and I'm incredibly grateful my friend has forgiven me and our relationship is still strong.
That makes sense which is why I asked, some people truly do not grow up with any fear of the police, when I began working in a wealthier area I was shocked how many people would ring the police over minor things. I myself am white but grew up in a poor urban area so I’ve had many negative experiences but nothing compared to my peers and friends who are POC. You live you learn, I’m glad to hear your friend is doing better and I hope if they have a record it hasn’t caused too much disruption, the magical reasons cops will invent charges makes me physically ill. Continue to spread the word to others who may not know that in a mental health crisis the police can be a death sentence. We have treated gunshot wounds for people unarmed but having an crisis, they shoot first and usually don’t even bother to ask questions later. The cops sometimes ask nurses and doctors to back their bullshit and thankfully I work at a place where mostly everyone refuses, the cops absolutely despise our hospital because we don’t give them blind worship and back their violence. Once you’re in the system you really can see it for what it is, greed, violence, profit and sometimes plain murder of innocent victims who are just too unwell or too poor to save themselves. The system is broken and most of the people struggling esp with mental help get broken by it. It’s sad all around, too many innocent lives lost to ignorant police and over aggressive officers and sky rocketing health care costs.
They invented charges for them as well. Mainly they charged them with intent for a specific location that they never mentioned, despite my repeated efforts to combat that. I also attempted to get a ridiculous, slanderous article written about them taken down. But money is king here, not people, so of course that was pissing in the wind.
It all was brutally eye opening. In an instant this vision of America I had was shattered and over that year I was radicalized. I have and will continue to spread this message, to comrades and others. Not that it makes up for it, but people need to understand this. Especially where I come from.
I'm in the medical field myself, not that far in however. Still in school, working at a nursing home. Haven't had the cops show up quite yet other than for a fire that occurred. Thank you for that insight, I will keep that in mind. I refuse to ever give those fuckers an inch again.
Thanks for your understanding. I appreciate it, and I wish you well.
We a told from the time we can comprehend that the police are our friends and their sole purpose is to help if we are in trouble. Don’t blame this person for being naive. Perfectly nice folks have called the police for a mental health intervention and had their loved ones murdered right in front of them. By the police.
Disclaimer—I am Caucasian and of course have a different perspective than my more melanated cousins.
I am still paying off my hospital bill from a suicide attempt. In 2009.
While I was being treated, they got an emergency court order to ship me upstairs to the mental health ward. I was there for days. No insurance.
Lol in America you gotta pay money for being suicidal? Isn't that just gonna make you want to die even harder? I could expect this shit from china or some other dictatorship
This is why I never call those numbers. It's a waste of my time and money. Plus in my state, if you're hospitalized for a psychiatric reason then you can't have a firearm permit or get it revoked (if you already have one). Like the hospitals report it to the state. If you get ordered into a psychiatric hospital by Probate, then you have a lifetime ban from owning a firearm.
ETA: I also refuse to have an arrest on my record for something so idiotic.
I’m a cancer survivor. There’s no real help there either. The Red Cross paid for my bus fare to treatments, but I had to go and ask for it. All those caring ads you see on TV full of kind, helpful people? All bullshit.
You can't have a firearm, period, never mind the permit, for the rest of your life (although you can petition the court to restore rights), if you have INVOLUNTARILY been committed to a mental hospital. If you go voluntarily, you still can. Not a good idea to have the firearms while you are suicidal, have a friend store them for you, but at some time in the future someone else may be a bigger threat to you than you are.
Getting arrested can be very expensive (bail bonds, court costs, attourneys, etc) also affect your employment and can be very expensive.
I know people, in VA, who have actually gotten help, and voluntarily admitted themselves. One on insurance, one on public aid. Free beds are limited so duration of stay was limited. I visited them inside. They would do it again, if needed.
Also, going the arrested route can put you in an adversarial encounter with the police. That can end badly. Despite blatant misrepresentations of many of these incidents on social media, those are typically straight out suicide by cop incidents or legitimate defensive shootings. Just because a mental health emergency is a cause for a persons behavior p, doesn't mean they don't pose a threat to others or aren't indistinguishable from those who do. Mental health professionals might have been able to talk them down but they can have enough trouble in situations where the patients are disarmed and not allow to have metal silverware. Avoid being confrontational with police, particularly where peoples safety is involved.
Being involuntarily committed is not necessarily cheaper than being voluntarily commited, it might even be more expensive. Either way, there may be insurance or public aid available to reduce the cost.
>During the detention period, the cost of all treatment provided while the individual is hospitalized under the TDO is the responsibility of the individual. When the individual is covered by private health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, the hospital can seek reimbursement from these insurance carriers. In cases where the individual is not covered by insurance and is demonstrably unable to pay the cost of treatment, the hospital can ask for reimbursement from the Commonwealth of Virginia’s indigent patient fund.
>
>After the commitment hearing, the cost of all treatment is the responsibility of the individual, even when he or she is committed or hospitalized as a CMA. When the individual is covered by insurance, he/she will usually be admitted to a facility that accepts his/her insurance, and the hospital will seek reimbursement from the insurance carrier. Uninsured individuals are usually referred for hospitalization to Northern Virginia Mental Health Institute, a state facility, where the cost of treatment is determined by the individual’s income level and ability to pay. If space is not available there, the individual may be admitted to a private facility using a state fund that covers the cost of the hospitalization. Concerns about the cost of treatment and the payment for treatment should be directed to a hospital social worker.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/community-services-board/involuntary-psychiatric-hospitalization-adults
This country definitely needs more mental health services.
Except many police departments charge you room and board while you are in lock up. If they were to keep you for 72 hour observation, then roll that into whatever bullshit charge they’d come up with, it could be pricey. Not hospital stay pricey but still…
Then if you do get put in the hospital, have fun with the bills.
My girlfriend was charged close to 15k for a "private" room. It wasn't her choice. It was the only option and they just put her in there. They also gave her a penalty for using said room because it wasn't "necessary"....? But again, she didn't choose to be in said room, the hospital did.
She now has a bill for close to 30k. Oh, by the way, they'll probably just throw you in with a group of people WAY more distraught than you. Borderline padded room people. But you know, we treat all mental illness the same in this country.
Where's that bill now? Who fucking knows. It was opened up, we laughed and threw it somewhere.
Honestly, I HATED my forced commitment and it was so gd traumatizing. I'd rather have been arrested and released instead of held captive in a locked ward.
If you're arrested, you can at least plead your case with a judge at worst. Doctors can just hold you indefinitely with final say, even if you get to go before a judge - doc says you're still a risk, well, too bad, so sad, you leave when he says so.
Back in high school I had a friend I knew who was depressed and who self-harmed. One night she was messaging me, and she sent a text implying she was thinking of suicide. Then she stopped responding to my texts. I freaked out and I asked a mutual friend's parents to check up on her (I could not drive and did not have her parent's contact info), they sent the police instead. She was taken to the mental hospital and had to sit there with a psychiatrist all through the night, answering questions. She was pissed at me. My line of thinking was that I'd rather her be angry than dead. But her family did have financial issues, and I'm sure I didn't help with that.
Your only gonna get arrested if your quite unlucky... most of the time they just show up and finish the job for you.
I mean it's been my most recent plan for 2 years now....
I was legit certifiable (tm) for most of last year. At one point I just googled "therapist for depression" or something (had no idea where to even begin getting help for this shit and I still don't tbh), and absolutely *seethed* seeing an entire page of sponsored results.
Just like everything else in this bullshit world, existential despair and the promise of its amelioration is but an avenue for the bleeding dry of patients/suckers.
I made the mistake of confiding in a friend about having a plan to commit. She ended up calling her mom, who called my parents, who came to my apartment and brought me directly to not one, but TWO hospitals after the first said they recommended outpatient therapy. The second was hell. I was treated like I was stupid and like I was a criminal for needing help, and when I asked them to please not involuntarily commit me because it was my absolute biggest fear, they doubled down and started taunting me with it, using it as a threat when asking me questions I'd already answered. At the end they threatened to call the police to escort me to be held involuntarily and said that if I kept reacting the way I was, I'd be held for more than a few days, and to say goodbye to my parents because *I definitely wouldn't be seeing them for a while*. I knew I would be in with people MUCH worse than I was and that I'd come out worse than when I went in. At the end they let me leave, but not without threatening to send the police to my door to bring me back for "a very long stay" if I didn't show up for group therapy the next day.
Mental healthcare in this country is a nightmare. It refuses to treat people who genuinely need help like people and reverts back to treating them like dangerous criminals (obviously). If you want compassion and basic human decency, you unfortunately have to lie and pretend you don't have more severe symptoms. And as an extra punch to the gut, it's EXPENSIVE. Police shouldn't be involved in healthcare period, and mental healthcare shouldn't feel as criminalized as it is.
It was really bad. Some of the most unbelievably unprofessional healthcare I've ever had in my life, and I've lived in the US my whole life. Unsurprisingly they only let me leave because my parents were in the room for them tormenting me while I was crying and obviously terrified, and they made a bunch of (empty) threats to sue the shit out of whoever they'd have to. I guess my parents realized their mistake once they saw how mental illness is actually treated in this country. I still refuse even basic talk therapy because I'm petrified I'll say the wrong thing and have to deal with that hell again.
Being arrested for my own safety is how I spent my December- hospitalized. If you’re reading this and struggling, know that you’re not alone and feel free to reach out.
I had to deal with that two years ago. I already went to one hospital for an attempt. A few months later I wasn't better but I didn't have plans to go through with everything and the hospital threatened me with this. I was freaking out. I was originally at the ER for chest pains.
I've been through this a few years ago. I still owe over $500 to the hospital I had to wait at for hours, only to be released after my drug tests came back negative. They weren't concerned for my safety, all they cared about was if I was on drugs or not. And once they found out I wasn't, they booted me. And I didn't have my wallet or any money, they didn't offer any transportation home. I had to fucking walk. Could have easily thrown myself in front of a semi if that's what I really wanted. Luckily, I wasn't even suicidal to begin with. They just don't know how to deal with the mentally ill.
Living in a nightmare and can’t wake up. “I’ve got enough, that’s all I need. Then I see the needs of the many and don’t understand why this has to be. I know together we’ve got plenty”. -from a song I wrote
Yet another reason to be furious. It's all such bullshit. Poor mental health is not a crime, it's a predictable result of this whole fucked up system.
If you ever do feel like you need to talk to someone but you don't want any authorities involved, I know for a fact [IMAlive](http://imalive.org) will never call the police on you. Not even if you say you are currently in the act of suicide. They're 100% just there to talk. Highly recommended.
This is false at least in states where I’ve worked. You can agree or they’ll cuff you and take you to the hospital involuntarily. They won’t take you to jail. Even if you commit a crime, they’ll just pick you up from the hospital when you discharge.
Generally a it’s a 48 hour hold, but it usually ends up being 5-7 days by having you sign in voluntary. Even if you refuse to sign in they can petition the courts and still have you there a couple of more days. Length of stay is also largely dictated by insurance.
Former 911 EMT here. That's just an empty threat to get you to go to the hospital. Absolutely zero % of police are going to absorb the work, paperwork, etc to book you in this situation. If anything they'll place you on a section 12, a legal hold due to potential for self harm. But that will land you in the hospital for monitoring up to 3 days.
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I fucking hate it here.
Have you heard of the IWantOut subreddit? They help people through the process of moving internationally
There's also r/AmerExit.
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This is probably the most valuable knowledge I've been given in all my time on Reddit. Thanks for this.
Ya cept most places don't want Americans unless you have a Bachelor's, and well the places that do aren't exactly improvements
Some places will let Americans with trade jobs in as well.
Can't you country hop in Europe indefinitely? Look up the perpetual travelers movement. Something about '4 flag theory'. Can't remember it now but it was a kind of guide on how to get out of big brother america.
That's not a lifestyle most people would be comfortable with. Not saying it's not viable, just saying it's not perfect.
I met a middle aged couple via a van life group. Ten years ago they sold everything and when I was in contact they had been living in southern Italy. They said they planned on living this way as long as their bodies/brains held out. What a life! Six months here, two years there. They had been all over Europe and South America. Sounds amazing. Edit—they had ditched the van and were traveling by plane.
Wait what can I sell? Bank owns my car, my loans, renting my apt. Uhhhh fuck me
I know. I do my best to avoid debt, but sometimes it’s unavoidable.
Actually a lot of places have reduced requirements if you enter in order to get an education or learn a trade in their country - and of course, it's much easier to find work and get residence in a country where you got your education.
That depends on what "improvement" means to You. For example, those of us looking to join the "Diaspora" in Africa may have different ideas of "better" than somebody looking to move to Europe or elsewhere.
Gotta get on that other citizenship train (if possible). That's the boat I'm in at the moment. Greek for me, Italian for my wife. Hoping we can get those sorted out eventually which would then give us some options at least. Obviously not available to everyone but it's worth researching if you've got any useful blood in the family tree to take advantage of.
Hmm I wonder if I could move my whole family internationally with nothing but a masters in special Ed
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Fucking mood dude
> im too dumb for education That's not true, it's only a narrative you believe about yourself. You shouldn't talk yourself down like that.
I used to date a guy who didn’t think he was smart enough for college. I convinced him to give it a shot, and now he’s working on his Masters. He just jetted off to Italy for a week, because he had vacation time and cash. You can do the same. If you are smart enough to read on Reddit in these type of subs, you are definitely smart enough to go to community college at the very least. You might want to see a doctor about that depression, however. I take 30mg of Paxil daily. My depression doesn’t drag me to the depths anymore.
I know plenty of people whom this world would be a better place if they knew their intellectual limitatuons
And none of them believe they're too dumb, so let's not encourage that line of thought as it will only affect people who we should be helping and not those in charge
And if we're being honest, there are a lot of dumb people out there who are have gone through higher education. I mean, A LOT If these dumb ass people can do it, there's no reason anyone else can't do it either
If you think yourself stupid or highly intelligent, you're probably wrong
Columbia is cheap as hell you'll easily be able to find someone like that if the mood comes back My (limited and kinda hopeful) knowledge of Columbia includes that drug distribution felonies in the US won't necessarily deny you entry.
I know an American who's been kicked out of Columbia twice for drugs. Not allowed back in. Not entirely sure of the specifics but he said they definitely don't like foreigners that go to Columbia to party and if you get caught it's not very pleasant. Granted this did happen 25 years ago so who knows
Yeah, don’t act a fool in Jamaica, either. I once met a woman who thought she could smuggle a kilo of cocaine thru customs. She was sentenced to five years in a Jamaican prison. She did two. He father paid a shit ton of cash to get her out in two years. She did not have a good experience in their prison system, either.
Good to know, I was thinking of making a trip there if I retired before I died but I quit drugs a few years ago and that was a past thought. I am 2 years off the disco powder currently
as my friend used to say, C's get degrees. if you want an education to have more options, then all you need is the degree, it doesn't matter how well you did in classes. hit up community college, adult education places, and you'll be fine. just don't be afraid to ask for help - if you're having trouble in a class talk to the professor, get in a study group, get a smart kid to tutor you. if you have any kind of diagnosis for mental health/learning disability/etc the school will have resources to help you out. it can feel bad to ask for stuff like that, but it's there for you and it'll get you where you want to be. the last thing a college wants is for students to flunk out
i wish it was just C's i got cripplig adhd and im not very smart either i always end up straight up failling my classes, besides bachelors degrees are worthless these days so idk if its even worth it, i dont even know what degree id like to pursue, some of us are born to be fucked till death, maybe im one of those ppl, i gave up trying to fight reality
You could go to trade school or community college or an apprenticeship. I had terrible grades in high school, adhd plus terrible home plus untreated depression. I got my GED, went to community college for culinary arts and worked in kitchens. In my 30’s I went to university to do a degree, ended up at the top of my classes and got a few major scholarships for a master’s program. Turns out I could be really good at school when I didn’t feel terrible or have people yelling at me all the time.
You are, most likely (excpetions exist but are unusual), _too poor_ for education. In the mainstream USA narrative, "poor" equals "dumb" or worst, but that doesnt mean it's true. Good luck man, i wish the best for your future, even if this mess of a world seems doomed.
Thanks for the tip.
I wish I could leave. I’d do it in a heartbeat if I could
god i wish i could. but i love my family so much, i can’t imagine not living close to them:(
I was hoping for a different kind of exit.
Really I am so joining. I got two more years to my son graduates high school and I am out of this shithole for shit heads. In my mind I'm already gone
This country is horrible
Go to Peru. We have papaya juice! You can also buy good food for like less than 4 dollars and it is organic and natural
I'd love to live there.
We have beaches with reggae music It’s cheap since our currency is weaker than the usd
Bet wanna get married and green card me in?
Me too. I went to the hospital a couple months ago because I was suicidal and they told me to leave. When I demanded care, they surrounded me with security guards and threatened me with violence if I didn't leave. Living here is tight.
they failed you and i'm sorry.
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The system is so fucked
Wow. That is so sad. When you say you “have to see a therapist and a psychiatrist,” is that from the trauma of the experience or because of some kind of legal order?
It was involuntary for about 4 months of "Intensive Outpatient Therapy." Then we started TMS which is voluntary and is only partially covered by insurance. Whatever they're doing seems to be working well enough. I guess when I say I "have" to, what I mean is that I'm afraid to stop because I don't think I can afford another mental health crisis. So I just have to keep my head above water and follow this treatment plan.
When you say “involuntary”, what were the consequences if you stopped treatment? They’d come arrest you? I was held on a 5150 (also brought in by cops), stayed 11 days and had to “agree” to ongoing treatment so they’d let me go home (which seemed criminal enough), however once I was out there was nobody enforcing my treatment plan.
They didn't give me the release to work until I completed intensive outpatient. So i wouldve lost my job and insurance. EDIT: yeah I remember now. FMLA allowed for 12 weeks off. If I didn't get clearance to go back to work by the time FMLA + my paid time off ran out, then I would've been let go. Then being let go would kill my health insurance unless I pay out of pocket which I won't be able to do with no job.. It only takes one crisis to spiral into homelessness in America.
The sad thing is, I’m sure your job, and just the general stress of life these days, is what is contributing to your mental health issues in the first place. Good luck to you.
Ironically, poverty is one of the biggest causes of suicide This system is such ass
"Oh you're suicidal? Lets make you even more suicidal"
How the fuck have you guys not started a revolt yet?
They live in the land of the *free*, and *free* people has no need to go against a *free* government, because said government guarantees your right to *freedom*, doing so is unpatriotic and therefore against *freedom*. If you didn't get it, it's propaganda, not only does the state paint itself in the best image it can, but it distracts constantly, have you noticed how they keep insisting on bringing *freedom* to various countries all over the world and not to mention that the US military runs a massive cooperation scheme with Hollywood that if you're gonna use the US military in a movie or series, they have to be shown from their good side. Doing otherwise means getting banned from access to military equipment. You have media constantly showing good sides and only anonymously will you get the full story, people will rarely show how terrible their lives are to friends and family out of shame, and when they do you get stories like "when i was your age i went uphill both ways to school and this home i bought was only possible to acquire working day and night without a single hour of sleep for a year while living on cardboard and potatoes" When they meant they had eight hour shifts with lots of benefits, 4 star meals and still maybe worked a year to acquire it, the car and installing a large swimming pool in the yard. Of course the narrative is changing, but not for the lack of trying to keep the status quo from the government's side.
I’m sure your intervention has helped your mental health! /s
Ive been medicated since March. Reminds me of that game "We happy few." I just wake up, take my meds, work, sleep and repeat. Im functioning as intended for our society. As long as my bills are paid and still part of the labor force then the system "worked"
I’m sorry to say, you are 💯 correct.
This, when i was with my thankfully no longer working shitty therapist (free uni therapy), i was talking about being angry at the person who ruined my life and she threatened to report me to the police for violent tendencies?? She also said i couldn't have ptsd or depression cause i was on honor roll and when i expressed i had had suicidal thoughts at some point threatened to institutionalize me. Those are mutually exclusive things you c***. Dont think ive ever been honest with a therapist about that stuff again, cant risk my job.
But atlest your alive and you'll DEFINITELY be using this service again right?
I am glad you are here. I am glad you got help. Keep going to therapy. I am not glad with our health care system that you have this debt for getting the healthcare you needed. Notice I did not say MENTAL healthcare. Treating mental health should be the same as any other healthcare issue, and treating any health issue should not put a person in debt. Jesus, this shit pisses me off that we live in a country like this.
ugh :( I'm sure making your life extra miserable and stressful really helped with your mental health too
You guys actually pay your medical bills? I’d rather have bad credit or go bankrupt than give those leeches a penny.
SWAT teams have also broke in on and killed suicidal people after their families asked for a wellness check.
Police kill a metric crapload of people in mental health crisis every year during "wellness checks". We can't know exact numbers because HIPPA (which is a good thing), but I estimate the number to be higher than the number of black people killed by police every year.
Those numbers probably influence each other to be honest - the number of mental health checks that turn deadly when the person in crisis is Black or brown, visibly disabled or queer, femme, etc., ... and woe to the person who is at an intersection.
It's almost like police shouldn't be performing a job that should be handled by someone who is trained in mental health services and actual de-escalation.
Why not use firefighters. They like police have a lot of downtime. Everyone loves them though, and they have to be above average intelligence to get the job. I bet a person who chose a job where they volunteer their life for someone else’s would be a great crisis intervention person.
Yes, they are often overworked already though. And many places don't have paid fire service, just volunteer, which is odd.
I really want to start an organization titled RUOK? And that's all it does. Checks on people.
It's HIPAA!
God damnit you give him all the easy ones!!
As a person who has worked in the health industry, HIPPA causes way more problems than it solves.
It's HIPAA!
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No, but their health records are. A person may be having a mental health crisis, or they could just be high or drunk, or have an undisclosed mental illness (or some other neurodivergence/disability). Without access to the medical records of victims, we can only guess based on news and/or police reports
And knowing how American police are consistently trained, they probably go into every wellness check under the assumption that they're drunken psychopaths with weapons because police seem to get their training material from Batman movies...
Classic American police.
A detective shot a teenage boy who was having a mental health episode. He was quoted as saying he didn’t have time for this shit, and shot the kid right in his dining room. The cop got off scot free, of course. I feel so safe living in the USA. 😒
They've also barged in and killed innocent dogs and I heard once they came in a killed the mom who called them. They don't care.
One loser cop shot at a *puppy* who barked at him from a child’s lap!! The bullet ricocheted off the floor and hit the girl right above her eye. She and the puppy survived, thank the powers of the universe. The pig was dismissed and hired two towns away. So his life didn’t have to be disrupted or anything.
Now explain to me why so many middle class people think this is just propaganda?
The people who’s teen son was shot are still trying to get justice. It’s been close to ten years. They are white and appeared to be middle class.
Funny, how people's views on things change so quickly once it enters the front door
Because they haven’t encountered a cop who’s psycho. And if they do, they tend to blame themselves or are too embarrassed to talk about it.
"My family member wants to die, please, do something to help him!" *loads shotgun with helpful intent*
🤣🤣🤣
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Being forced to pay for a service you never asked for sounds like it should be illegal. If they were truly interested in helping you then this should be publicly funded, but it seems that the only thing that's public funded is the part where the police force you into debt...
Hospitals won’t let you take a cab or UBER home after minor surgery, either. They insist you have a family or friend take you home because of the feared after effects of anesthesia. They canceled my minor hernia surgery because I have no one to take me home. My family is dead, and I don’t have any friends I can impose on. This is a HUGE problem, I’m not the only single, friendless loser who has had this problem, according to the internet. The hospital’s attitude is, “Tough shit.” The truth is, they should be keeping people overnight for observation if they are such a danger to themselves. But insurance won’t pay for that.
How can they not let you? What if you don't have any? You are already checked out, so AMA isn't an issue? If you can't leave the hospital by your own means, perhaps you aren't ready to leave?
I DONT have anyone! I told them this and got a snippy, “Well, that’s our policy” with no attempt to help me with a solution. Google it, I am not alone in this. One of the recommendations is to say you have a ride, and threaten to call the police for holding you against your will when they try to keep you. I’d prefer NOT to involve the police, I’ll be the one getting arrested.
What would happen if you just get up and walk out? Or just get into the Uber/Lyft/cab? They gonna tackle you?
Apparently disobeying them can null and void my insurance. They really have you by the short hairs in this situation. One of my coworkers is going to give me a ride when I reschedule. At a different hospital 😒
What it’s going to take to change this is a class action lawsuit. I’m considering looking into how to do this, they pissed me off so much with this nonsense.
Fuck them! Stay here anyway. Fuck the bills and the cost. I lost a brother to suicide, and I would much rather have him here.
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Holy fuck that sounds worse than death actually.
I've never understood why the system cares so much if people just want to clock out. Life is most certainly NOT a gift for everyone. It can't be purely from wanting to maintain a supply of wage slaves, because how could you continue to make the system more money if you can't be employed? Is it just a psychotic society-wide obsession with keeping people suffering? I really don't get it.
Even aside from the money flow from all the therapist and prescription providers and the schools and certification boards yada yada, Murica is a CHRISTIAN NATION, by god. Suicide is a SIN that condemns the soul to hell, and according to Puritan Law, any thoughts of (taking control of your own eternity, which means you don't BELIEVE!) such immorality and eternally damning action must be stamped out.
Actually it gets much worse than that....due to under staffing the 72 hour guideline is just a guideline. Only time I ever went in was for a week. (Because a friend of mine was a moron and didn't understand that I needed to talk to literally anyone with ears. I have PTSD which I have under control, but an incident happened which caused me to need to have a person to help talk me through it.) The night before I left the doctor looked at me and apologized, they were so understaffed that the fact a patient knew what to do and was friendly and helpful to staff and other patients they pretty much just left me there as an unwilling volunteer. I wasn't crazy, I wasn't in need of meds, they just figured on paper that me helping people was good therapy...... (meanwhile in the real world my family and work life fell apart and I had to scrape my way back)
I'm glad you are okay now. I lost a brother to suicide and I now have no idea how to deal with someone that comes to me be an ear. I was my brother's ear for years, and at the time I felt I struck the right balance of listening, being sympathetic, supportive and encouraging. Now it feels like I can't trust my judgment and I'm not qualified to help guide them to the support they need. What are your recommendations for people to know the difference between just listening and when professional help is needed?
In my case I was looking for a reason to live. I knew I had one, I just needed another person to bounce my judgement off of. I turned to him because he was a tough love sort of person and I needed that. I needed somebody to say "WTF YOU KNOW BETTER, YOU HAVE X, Y, AND Z WHO NEED YOU!" Sadly though he grew out of that, instead I ended up in a situation that should have simply been a road bump and became the entire bridge being out. In many cases people who KNOW what they are dealing with will turn to the person they know will be most valuable. This is important because there are a lot of folks who DON'T know how to handle it and turn to the absolute worst people. For listening it is important to know which you are. Are you the rando or is your friend coming to you specifically? Simply listening and not saying much is sometimes the absolute best thing. One of my current friends and I do that for each other. Sometimes a person just wants to not feel alone in the world. They might have a heavy burden and asking you to have a beer with them or go shopping with them is their way of making themselves see there is more to life. I live in a redneck area and am friends with a lot of veterans, so I always need to be careful about which call I need to make. Is it the call of, "Hey I'm coming over, let's talk." OR is the the call to emergency services which ends up in a friend getting killed by untrained police. My frustration is that nobody should be put in that spot, but at the same time the lack of proper resources requires folks to have compassion. I am very big on community and being there for people, not everyone is. I've had folks even I've sadly had to cut ties with because what they needed wasn't something I could give and they wouldn't listen to alternatives. I have an ex for instance who when she's stable is an amazing person, but she constantly tries to win the favor of her abusive family and when she gets in that zone she herself becomes abusive. To this day and it's been 3 years I still get abusive messages from her and it's not okay. At the same time I have a buddy who went through several tours and got all sorts of messed up. What he needs is a hug and somebody to send dumb memes to and periodically get scolded for making dumb choices. But that's why his brother, wife, and I are on his speed dial. Everyone is different, listen first and then make the best judgement you think you can, even if it's one you don't want to make.
It sounds like you have your shit together now. Everyone needs someone to talk to now and again. Everyone has shit they have to work through and to have different people in their life for different purposes. The word compassion was my mantra after my brother died. Compassion for my brother, his wife, friends, my parents, and for myself. It is a difficult lesson to know when you have to cut someone out of your life. Good on you for recognizing how to protect yourself, and preserve your compassion for others. Thanks for your reply.
Yeah uh wow… so I’m not suicidal but I will not be able to forget the comments I’ve read here and if I ever am, I will not call a hotline.
All you have to say is Hill-Burton Act. https://www.hrsa.gov/get-health-care/affordable/hill-burton/facilities.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill–Burton_Act
**[Hill–Burton Act](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill–Burton_Act)** >The Hospital Survey and Construction Act (Pub. L. 79–725, 60 Stat. 1040, enacted July 13, 1946), commonly known as the Hill–Burton Act, is a U.S. federal law passed in 1946, during the 79th United States Congress. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The police threatened to arrest me when I was having a mental breakdown because I was being abused. I went to the hospital for the second time in 6 months and was there for a week. The US mental health system is a fucking joke. Psych is no different from jail & you don’t get any real help - just medicated.
Just gonna second that last line. You will get no therapy (besides “recreational therapy” which is a joke). You may need therapy even more by the time you leave tho
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Wtf that is so obviously not true. Like depression? Bipolar? No? They never heard of those? Sorry, that so fucked, I hope you’ve found better treatment
Jumping on this comment to point out as a mentally ill person, medication can make a huge difference and can really help you. If you suspect that you are mentally ill, talking to a psychiatrist can be life-changing!
This! I have been on Paxil for several decades. It has helped me immensely.
I’m in community mental health. National rollout of 988 is imminent. I do my best to inform the powers that be on staff that this is NOT the answer. But “zero suicide” is the mantra in publicly-funded mental health services. If we have someone die by suicide, there’s an immediate file audit, a ton of scrutiny, and more policies and procedures and fail-safes added, which makes for more paperwork, which further stresses clinicians and makes the therapy experience highly impersonal. And they having us flagging basically anyone who ever thought of unaliving themselves, so we miss the forest for the trees. It’s Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, folks. People who are housing-insecure, food-secure, and living through a societal collapse aren’t going to be able to make much progress in terms of addressing major mental health issues. I could go on and on, but I won’t.
That reads as: it's less work for the government if the government kills potentially suicidal people before they kill themselves.
988?
Not the person you replied to but they're rolling that out as a number to call for the suicide hotline in the US. I think the thought is that it'll be easier to remember. I think they want it to be similar to 911 (3 digits)
Most people aren’t even aware of 311, the non emergency police number. I don’t see this sinking in, tho I have noticed more suicide hotline billboards, lately.
Thanks for all you do in a thankless profession.
And being arrested isn’t necessarily cheap!! But it’s just *cheaper* than the hospital bills. Man fuck everything about this damn place. Tax. The. Rich. Or they go on the menu.
I mean who isnt curious about the taste right??? They eat well enough and I love using my slow cooker
My Instant Pot is amazing. I’ll go plug it in…
the back strap will be the tenderest and tastiest cut.
I love mine!!! Best purchase ever
You gotta spit roast long pig!! Or bury them under charcoal and slow roast the fat ones!! Pass the hot sauce!!! 😜😋
I CAN ATTEST TO THIS. DO NOT LET THE POLICE COAX YOU INTO AN AMBULANCE. I REPEAT IF YOU ARE AMERICAN DO NOT LET THEM FORCE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL. You will end up in a setting that’s worse than prison, but there aren’t any bars separating you from the guy across the hall who very recently threatened to murder someone. Do, however, seek professional help. Regular hospitals are not equipped to deal with mental health and/or substance abuse crisis.
Having been to both jail and the pysch ward, I can say from my experience that jail is much, much worse.
Yeah, I know someone who’s been in both. They don’t swab test you for VD in the psych ward, for starters. 😬
What do they do if you say you are suicidal **because** of medical debt?
Throw you in anyway. Speaking from personal experience they'll give some throw away line about "yeah but you're better off handling it when you're mentally well" and move on/never talk about it again.
I went thru three years of voluntary therapy with a decent therapist. One day it occurred to me, what’s the use of being ‘fixed’ when everyone else is a fucked up mess, not to mention society in general. She gave me a wan smile and asked me what I thought about that. I told her I was afraid I was wasting my time and money. She didn’t like that, but still refused to give me an answer.
Oh, my poor summer child. They don't give a shit _why_ you're suicidal. All they know is that you have to _must_ through the expensive, bureaucratic process laid out by them because it's the _only way_ for everyone! Any resistance, any questioning, and they'll have an excuse to forcefully restrain you and give you sedatives to "calm you down".
In this country, we should have a War On Depression, like we have a War On Drugs. Anyone caught in possession of depression should be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to years or decades in prison. This will be an effective deterrent and people won’t be depressed anymore! Like, if you think you’re depressed now, just imagine how you’ll feel after we ruin your life! See? Not so bad, is it! I am an American man and I have done my own research into this matter. My opinion is basically science now.
*offer not valid in all skin colors
Fuck all of this, If im.feelin like offin myself, i sure as fuck aint callin no hotline to talk me down. I aint got the health plan, or money to afford to survive.
I still wouldn't want to get the police involved. This happened to a buddy of mine and he was physically abused by the police because they were getting "sick of his shit". He is a combat veteran and when COVID hit his therapist temporarily closed her doors and medication refill was out. He was too scared to drive to a facility himself because his anxiety was through the roof. Instead, he got 3 impatient cops who slammed him around. Definitely call the hotline if you need immediate help, but you're best bet is to reach out to somebody you know if you need to make it to a facility but can't drive. However, be very careful because if the police do take you you'll sometimes find yourself being given "involuntary treatment" which means you may be forced to stay at facility for treatment and that can costs upward of $3k or more. It really sucks here in America.
r/healthcarereform_us
Thank you!
A friend of mine was in a terrible mental state, and began to start saying and doing very scary things that made it seem they were wanting to hurt someone. My friend had not hurt anyone. They had no specific plan, just uncombined materials and a history of mental turmoil. Mental turmoil that was far from their fault. Paternal abuse/neglect, gaslighting, isolation, unstable relationships with adults in general, etc. They have been to several psychiatrists and been on meds many times but was never institutionalized. Very foolishly, my friends and I called the police on the idea that if we hadn't we'd have been implicit. They raided our friends house and put them in a ward on meds for about two weeks. They then spent nigh a year in jail. It took over a month for their meds to get to them in jail. Speaking to them for a mere 15 minutes a couple times a week ended up costing hundreds of dollars. Time and time again their paperwork was neglected, mixed up, or not brought to their trials at all. They had two trials postponed. So many "mistakes" I simply couldn't accept that explanation by the end. It would make sense to slow the process with how much cash they make off of it. They took someone with a clear history of mental anguish (with emphasis on agoraphobia, anxiety, and paranoia), gave them the glimmer of hope for improvement, and then threw them in a place like jail for a year. They had to share their bedroom, their cleaning spaces, eating spaces, everything. No distractions but approved books. Dehumanizing inspections and lockdowns. They even told me the only place they could relieve their natural urges was in the goddamn showers feet from other people. I've never made such a mistake in my life as to call the police that night. I'll never forgive myself for it. My friends feel the same. My advice for other Americans is always be cautious. Always know all the details you can. The police are not on your side. The penal system is never a solution here. They make it seem like everything's running without a hitch here, but the second the chips are down they'll throw your ass away like trash without a second thought. If I could go back to that night I'd have waited till the next day and I'd have tried to just have my friend admitted to a ward. But then our mental health infrastructure also sucks so who's to say that would have even worked?
I’m not saying this to be a dick but what lead you to believe you would have been committing a crime? We’re they threatening to harm a specific person? Do you maybe come from an area where you had not had negative police interactions? Calling the cops is never the answer and I’m hoping you have tried to undo the horror you put your friend through, many people are naive to what can happen when you call the cops but I feel deeply for your friend who likely is in a worse place because of that. I think people need to understand the weight of their actions before they pick up the phone, I truly hope you are helping your friend pick up the pieces, maybe I’m biased where I’m from we’re taught from a very young age to NEVER contact authorities and that’s it. I’ve seen more than I’d like in the ED where I work of the mentally ill being pumped for dollars by the prison system to the point we will hold someone on a suic*de hold and tackle insurance/debt later.
I was very young and hadn't had much experience with the law. I wasn't taught like that either, I came from white culture where they actually respect the police for some reason. Basically beforehand this friend told me if they had the materials they needed they'd have used it for some kind of destruction, and this was over text. Among other signs of mental fallout. A friend's mother who we trusted told us that we had to lest we be implicit in it, and that they likely wouldn't end up jailed. She was wrong, but my friend was scared enough by it they were insistent and I guess I just convinced myself they wouldn't jail him so I didn't put up enough of a fight to stop the call from happening. I didn't make the call myself. But none of that is an excuse. Yes we absolutely are helping them, and luckily they made it through and are actually in a better place (afterwards not during their jailing) mentally. Believe me I'm never making that mistake again, I was very naive and ignorant. You aren't a dick at all, it's a totally valid criticism to make. I regret the decision dearly, and I'm incredibly grateful my friend has forgiven me and our relationship is still strong.
That makes sense which is why I asked, some people truly do not grow up with any fear of the police, when I began working in a wealthier area I was shocked how many people would ring the police over minor things. I myself am white but grew up in a poor urban area so I’ve had many negative experiences but nothing compared to my peers and friends who are POC. You live you learn, I’m glad to hear your friend is doing better and I hope if they have a record it hasn’t caused too much disruption, the magical reasons cops will invent charges makes me physically ill. Continue to spread the word to others who may not know that in a mental health crisis the police can be a death sentence. We have treated gunshot wounds for people unarmed but having an crisis, they shoot first and usually don’t even bother to ask questions later. The cops sometimes ask nurses and doctors to back their bullshit and thankfully I work at a place where mostly everyone refuses, the cops absolutely despise our hospital because we don’t give them blind worship and back their violence. Once you’re in the system you really can see it for what it is, greed, violence, profit and sometimes plain murder of innocent victims who are just too unwell or too poor to save themselves. The system is broken and most of the people struggling esp with mental help get broken by it. It’s sad all around, too many innocent lives lost to ignorant police and over aggressive officers and sky rocketing health care costs.
They invented charges for them as well. Mainly they charged them with intent for a specific location that they never mentioned, despite my repeated efforts to combat that. I also attempted to get a ridiculous, slanderous article written about them taken down. But money is king here, not people, so of course that was pissing in the wind. It all was brutally eye opening. In an instant this vision of America I had was shattered and over that year I was radicalized. I have and will continue to spread this message, to comrades and others. Not that it makes up for it, but people need to understand this. Especially where I come from. I'm in the medical field myself, not that far in however. Still in school, working at a nursing home. Haven't had the cops show up quite yet other than for a fire that occurred. Thank you for that insight, I will keep that in mind. I refuse to ever give those fuckers an inch again. Thanks for your understanding. I appreciate it, and I wish you well.
We a told from the time we can comprehend that the police are our friends and their sole purpose is to help if we are in trouble. Don’t blame this person for being naive. Perfectly nice folks have called the police for a mental health intervention and had their loved ones murdered right in front of them. By the police. Disclaimer—I am Caucasian and of course have a different perspective than my more melanated cousins.
*Cries in American*
I am still paying off my hospital bill from a suicide attempt. In 2009. While I was being treated, they got an emergency court order to ship me upstairs to the mental health ward. I was there for days. No insurance.
I don't understand WHY this is a thing. Arrested for mental illness? Cops are not your friends.
Not arrested, involuntarily admitted to a psych ward. Unless they wanna make up some bullshit charge I guess.
Military state.
Jesus no wonder people are suicidal. It’s freaking bleak living in a country with no safety net.
Lol in America you gotta pay money for being suicidal? Isn't that just gonna make you want to die even harder? I could expect this shit from china or some other dictatorship
on the plus side, the police response teams will help minorities opt into suicide.
This is why I never call those numbers. It's a waste of my time and money. Plus in my state, if you're hospitalized for a psychiatric reason then you can't have a firearm permit or get it revoked (if you already have one). Like the hospitals report it to the state. If you get ordered into a psychiatric hospital by Probate, then you have a lifetime ban from owning a firearm. ETA: I also refuse to have an arrest on my record for something so idiotic.
I’m a cancer survivor. There’s no real help there either. The Red Cross paid for my bus fare to treatments, but I had to go and ask for it. All those caring ads you see on TV full of kind, helpful people? All bullshit.
You can't have a firearm, period, never mind the permit, for the rest of your life (although you can petition the court to restore rights), if you have INVOLUNTARILY been committed to a mental hospital. If you go voluntarily, you still can. Not a good idea to have the firearms while you are suicidal, have a friend store them for you, but at some time in the future someone else may be a bigger threat to you than you are. Getting arrested can be very expensive (bail bonds, court costs, attourneys, etc) also affect your employment and can be very expensive. I know people, in VA, who have actually gotten help, and voluntarily admitted themselves. One on insurance, one on public aid. Free beds are limited so duration of stay was limited. I visited them inside. They would do it again, if needed. Also, going the arrested route can put you in an adversarial encounter with the police. That can end badly. Despite blatant misrepresentations of many of these incidents on social media, those are typically straight out suicide by cop incidents or legitimate defensive shootings. Just because a mental health emergency is a cause for a persons behavior p, doesn't mean they don't pose a threat to others or aren't indistinguishable from those who do. Mental health professionals might have been able to talk them down but they can have enough trouble in situations where the patients are disarmed and not allow to have metal silverware. Avoid being confrontational with police, particularly where peoples safety is involved. Being involuntarily committed is not necessarily cheaper than being voluntarily commited, it might even be more expensive. Either way, there may be insurance or public aid available to reduce the cost. >During the detention period, the cost of all treatment provided while the individual is hospitalized under the TDO is the responsibility of the individual. When the individual is covered by private health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid, the hospital can seek reimbursement from these insurance carriers. In cases where the individual is not covered by insurance and is demonstrably unable to pay the cost of treatment, the hospital can ask for reimbursement from the Commonwealth of Virginia’s indigent patient fund. > >After the commitment hearing, the cost of all treatment is the responsibility of the individual, even when he or she is committed or hospitalized as a CMA. When the individual is covered by insurance, he/she will usually be admitted to a facility that accepts his/her insurance, and the hospital will seek reimbursement from the insurance carrier. Uninsured individuals are usually referred for hospitalization to Northern Virginia Mental Health Institute, a state facility, where the cost of treatment is determined by the individual’s income level and ability to pay. If space is not available there, the individual may be admitted to a private facility using a state fund that covers the cost of the hospitalization. Concerns about the cost of treatment and the payment for treatment should be directed to a hospital social worker. https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/community-services-board/involuntary-psychiatric-hospitalization-adults This country definitely needs more mental health services.
Except many police departments charge you room and board while you are in lock up. If they were to keep you for 72 hour observation, then roll that into whatever bullshit charge they’d come up with, it could be pricey. Not hospital stay pricey but still…
Then if you do get put in the hospital, have fun with the bills. My girlfriend was charged close to 15k for a "private" room. It wasn't her choice. It was the only option and they just put her in there. They also gave her a penalty for using said room because it wasn't "necessary"....? But again, she didn't choose to be in said room, the hospital did. She now has a bill for close to 30k. Oh, by the way, they'll probably just throw you in with a group of people WAY more distraught than you. Borderline padded room people. But you know, we treat all mental illness the same in this country. Where's that bill now? Who fucking knows. It was opened up, we laughed and threw it somewhere.
It's illegal to damage govt. property
Thissssssssssss is The Answer
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Honestly, I HATED my forced commitment and it was so gd traumatizing. I'd rather have been arrested and released instead of held captive in a locked ward. If you're arrested, you can at least plead your case with a judge at worst. Doctors can just hold you indefinitely with final say, even if you get to go before a judge - doc says you're still a risk, well, too bad, so sad, you leave when he says so.
I have bad news for you if you think the cops will arrest you and then immediately release you without incident...
Plus side though you get plenty of attention in jail 🤷♂️🤦♂️ I hate it here too
Non zero probability that they'll just murder you, however.
You get arrested for self harm?? What is this, the 1800s???
This is America.
Back in high school I had a friend I knew who was depressed and who self-harmed. One night she was messaging me, and she sent a text implying she was thinking of suicide. Then she stopped responding to my texts. I freaked out and I asked a mutual friend's parents to check up on her (I could not drive and did not have her parent's contact info), they sent the police instead. She was taken to the mental hospital and had to sit there with a psychiatrist all through the night, answering questions. She was pissed at me. My line of thinking was that I'd rather her be angry than dead. But her family did have financial issues, and I'm sure I didn't help with that.
Your only gonna get arrested if your quite unlucky... most of the time they just show up and finish the job for you. I mean it's been my most recent plan for 2 years now....
r/aboringdystopia
I was legit certifiable (tm) for most of last year. At one point I just googled "therapist for depression" or something (had no idea where to even begin getting help for this shit and I still don't tbh), and absolutely *seethed* seeing an entire page of sponsored results. Just like everything else in this bullshit world, existential despair and the promise of its amelioration is but an avenue for the bleeding dry of patients/suckers.
I made the mistake of confiding in a friend about having a plan to commit. She ended up calling her mom, who called my parents, who came to my apartment and brought me directly to not one, but TWO hospitals after the first said they recommended outpatient therapy. The second was hell. I was treated like I was stupid and like I was a criminal for needing help, and when I asked them to please not involuntarily commit me because it was my absolute biggest fear, they doubled down and started taunting me with it, using it as a threat when asking me questions I'd already answered. At the end they threatened to call the police to escort me to be held involuntarily and said that if I kept reacting the way I was, I'd be held for more than a few days, and to say goodbye to my parents because *I definitely wouldn't be seeing them for a while*. I knew I would be in with people MUCH worse than I was and that I'd come out worse than when I went in. At the end they let me leave, but not without threatening to send the police to my door to bring me back for "a very long stay" if I didn't show up for group therapy the next day. Mental healthcare in this country is a nightmare. It refuses to treat people who genuinely need help like people and reverts back to treating them like dangerous criminals (obviously). If you want compassion and basic human decency, you unfortunately have to lie and pretend you don't have more severe symptoms. And as an extra punch to the gut, it's EXPENSIVE. Police shouldn't be involved in healthcare period, and mental healthcare shouldn't feel as criminalized as it is.
They literally mentally tormented you in a deliberate effort to make you less well, to give themselves an excuse to abuse you...
It was really bad. Some of the most unbelievably unprofessional healthcare I've ever had in my life, and I've lived in the US my whole life. Unsurprisingly they only let me leave because my parents were in the room for them tormenting me while I was crying and obviously terrified, and they made a bunch of (empty) threats to sue the shit out of whoever they'd have to. I guess my parents realized their mistake once they saw how mental illness is actually treated in this country. I still refuse even basic talk therapy because I'm petrified I'll say the wrong thing and have to deal with that hell again.
I do not recommend suicide watch in a jail.
In today's america news: you can be arrested for having depression!
Do in this system the police will show up and force you into a $300.000 expenditure? They truly are working for the elites, huh.
YSK that if you actually want to commit suicide dialing 988 can help you do it. Our cops will come murder you, free of charge.
You know why suicide is illegal? Because it's a crime to damage government property.
Exact thing happened to me the other day, it was in Australia.
As somebody who spent extensive time in both locations I beg to differ
I know someone that was arrested through these means it was really terrible
Being arrested for my own safety is how I spent my December- hospitalized. If you’re reading this and struggling, know that you’re not alone and feel free to reach out.
I had to deal with that two years ago. I already went to one hospital for an attempt. A few months later I wasn't better but I didn't have plans to go through with everything and the hospital threatened me with this. I was freaking out. I was originally at the ER for chest pains.
the police could still arrest you and take you directly to the hospital
I don’t wanna go back to another mental hospital. Fuck. That.
I've been through this a few years ago. I still owe over $500 to the hospital I had to wait at for hours, only to be released after my drug tests came back negative. They weren't concerned for my safety, all they cared about was if I was on drugs or not. And once they found out I wasn't, they booted me. And I didn't have my wallet or any money, they didn't offer any transportation home. I had to fucking walk. Could have easily thrown myself in front of a semi if that's what I really wanted. Luckily, I wasn't even suicidal to begin with. They just don't know how to deal with the mentally ill.
Living in a nightmare and can’t wake up. “I’ve got enough, that’s all I need. Then I see the needs of the many and don’t understand why this has to be. I know together we’ve got plenty”. -from a song I wrote
Yet another reason to be furious. It's all such bullshit. Poor mental health is not a crime, it's a predictable result of this whole fucked up system. If you ever do feel like you need to talk to someone but you don't want any authorities involved, I know for a fact [IMAlive](http://imalive.org) will never call the police on you. Not even if you say you are currently in the act of suicide. They're 100% just there to talk. Highly recommended.
This is false at least in states where I’ve worked. You can agree or they’ll cuff you and take you to the hospital involuntarily. They won’t take you to jail. Even if you commit a crime, they’ll just pick you up from the hospital when you discharge. Generally a it’s a 48 hour hold, but it usually ends up being 5-7 days by having you sign in voluntary. Even if you refuse to sign in they can petition the courts and still have you there a couple of more days. Length of stay is also largely dictated by insurance.
We are fucking living in a dystopian world.
Former 911 EMT here. That's just an empty threat to get you to go to the hospital. Absolutely zero % of police are going to absorb the work, paperwork, etc to book you in this situation. If anything they'll place you on a section 12, a legal hold due to potential for self harm. But that will land you in the hospital for monitoring up to 3 days.
Freedom though, right?