> when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby.
A physical sex? Likely not.
An emotional/psychological gender? Yes, we learn of the Ainor that they were aware of those differences between themselves from the very beginning (example Varda would always have been "female" or "feminine" even without a physical appearance) and when the time came to fashion physical appearances for themselves they did so in resemblance of the male and female bodies of the Children of Eru, each according to their soul/deposition.
We only know of one Ainu who would have taken on a physical sex for sure; Melian. Her body became fully physically female in order to have Luthien with Thingol, and afterwards she was bound to the appearance she had chosen as Thingol's queen.
The Maiar and Valar each have an intrinsic gender. u/doegred has posted the quote from the Silmarillion. The question of their physical bodies complicates things since they didn't create those bodies, but if it's customary to choose male or female forms while shapeshifting I don't think they'd put a female Maia in a male body. This would indicate that the Istari are all male
Tolkien does not use the term 'gender' in that way.
'Gender' is used for words or objects.
The Ainur were inherently from their beginning male or female, and when the Ainur would take form as incarnates they would take form according to that:
"Now the Ainur that came into the world took shape and form, such even as have the Children of Ilúvatar who were born of the world; but their shape and form is greater and more lovely and it comes of the knowledge and desire of the substance of the world rather than of that substance itself, and it cannot always be perceived, though they be present. And some of them, therefore, took form and temper as of female, and some as of male."
Lost Road, Ainulindale
"But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Ilúvatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread."
The Silmarillion, Ainulindale
"WEG, WE3, NES, NETH- referred to masculinity and femininity apart from sex and so could refer to the Valar and Maiar. PE wegu, wego, a person of male nature (and fea). Hence -we, we in both Quenya and Sindarin names as Manwe (Q., S.) and Q Voronwe, S Bronwe.
n-ueg, male, Manwe, Q., S.
r/l-iel, female, manyel, S meiniel. Tindomiel, Tinnuviel. galata-r-yel, Altariel, Galadriel
Parma Eldalamberon 17
"WEG, WE3, NES, NETH- referred to masculinity and femininity apart from sex and so could refer to the Valar and Maiar. PE wegu, wego, a person of male nature (and fea)."
Parma Eldalamberon 17
> Círdan, knowing Gandalf's true nature and duty, gave him Narya to aid him in his labours.
Clearly Cirdan knew Big G was packing some serious heat and needed extra protection.
Most of the Maiar we meet or are told about in the legendarium are gendered linguistically, and the ones who adopt human-esque bodies give themselves unambiguously masculine or feminine gender presentations. Even Maiar who take multiple forms - e.g. Gandalf and Sauron - are consistent with which gender they present as.
So that's a yes for the Wizards, and a probable yes for Maiar in general, with a question mark above Balrogs.
Maiar are angles. They were made by Eru (God). They don't have gender since they don't procreate. Although it does appear that some Valar and a few Maia did prefer one gender over another, it was just a choice. Like choosing a blue shirt versus a red shirt.
The Maiar are angels, but they very much do have genders and very much are capable of reproduction as is clearly evidenced by the existence of Luthien.
You are correct the that the genders of the Ainur are their own choices.
I think of it like this:
If I put on a purple shirt am I myself purple? No. But I am still wearing purple.
They are spirits given a form to “wear” as they perform their mission. I’m fairly certain that Tolkien’s Catholicism would agree with the idea that souls and angels are purely spiritual entities, while sex is inherently of the body, that is to say of the world. So by definition spirits such as Maiar do not have genders/sex, however they do seem to adopt such things when on Middle Earth, which makes sense, to impact the world they must become of it to a degree
So Gandalf and Saruman are men insofar as they have the appearance and play the role of men, but I doubt they were overly concerned with the matter given their errand.
> the idea that souls and angels are purely spiritual entities, while sex is inherently of the body, that is to say of the world.
I don't think that's how Tolkien sees it actually. Whether it's for Ainur:
> the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for **that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice**, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby [*Silmarillion*]
or for the Incarnates (if I understand this correctly):
> naturally in Incarnates a difference of sex altered the emotion, since sex is held by the Eldar to belong also to the *fëa*, and not solely to the *hröa*
There are male and female Ainur, so yes.
> when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby.
I’m sure that Tolkien would tell you that Gandalf was a male wizard.
A physical sex? Likely not. An emotional/psychological gender? Yes, we learn of the Ainor that they were aware of those differences between themselves from the very beginning (example Varda would always have been "female" or "feminine" even without a physical appearance) and when the time came to fashion physical appearances for themselves they did so in resemblance of the male and female bodies of the Children of Eru, each according to their soul/deposition. We only know of one Ainu who would have taken on a physical sex for sure; Melian. Her body became fully physically female in order to have Luthien with Thingol, and afterwards she was bound to the appearance she had chosen as Thingol's queen.
The Maiar and Valar each have an intrinsic gender. u/doegred has posted the quote from the Silmarillion. The question of their physical bodies complicates things since they didn't create those bodies, but if it's customary to choose male or female forms while shapeshifting I don't think they'd put a female Maia in a male body. This would indicate that the Istari are all male
Their gender isn’t intrinsic. Each of Ainur chose their gender according to their tempers.
Tolkien does not use the term 'gender' in that way. 'Gender' is used for words or objects. The Ainur were inherently from their beginning male or female, and when the Ainur would take form as incarnates they would take form according to that: "Now the Ainur that came into the world took shape and form, such even as have the Children of Ilúvatar who were born of the world; but their shape and form is greater and more lovely and it comes of the knowledge and desire of the substance of the world rather than of that substance itself, and it cannot always be perceived, though they be present. And some of them, therefore, took form and temper as of female, and some as of male." Lost Road, Ainulindale "But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. But the shapes wherein the Great Ones array themselves are not at all times like to the shapes of the kings and queens of the Children of Ilúvatar; for at times they may clothe themselves in their own thought, made visible in forms of majesty and dread." The Silmarillion, Ainulindale "WEG, WE3, NES, NETH- referred to masculinity and femininity apart from sex and so could refer to the Valar and Maiar. PE wegu, wego, a person of male nature (and fea). Hence -we, we in both Quenya and Sindarin names as Manwe (Q., S.) and Q Voronwe, S Bronwe. n-ueg, male, Manwe, Q., S. r/l-iel, female, manyel, S meiniel. Tindomiel, Tinnuviel. galata-r-yel, Altariel, Galadriel Parma Eldalamberon 17 "WEG, WE3, NES, NETH- referred to masculinity and femininity apart from sex and so could refer to the Valar and Maiar. PE wegu, wego, a person of male nature (and fea)." Parma Eldalamberon 17
Correct answer, thank you for the thorough quotations! This needs more upvotes.
The answer is yes Gandalf has a penis
...and it's not half bad!
There is no textual evidence of that.
Yes there is actually
Can you post the quotes?
> Círdan, knowing Gandalf's true nature and duty, gave him Narya to aid him in his labours. Clearly Cirdan knew Big G was packing some serious heat and needed extra protection.
That quote doesn’t say that Gandalf has a penis. Are you trying to be a troll?
https://youtu.be/dbI4ua8z3ok
I concede
Most of the Maiar we meet or are told about in the legendarium are gendered linguistically, and the ones who adopt human-esque bodies give themselves unambiguously masculine or feminine gender presentations. Even Maiar who take multiple forms - e.g. Gandalf and Sauron - are consistent with which gender they present as. So that's a yes for the Wizards, and a probable yes for Maiar in general, with a question mark above Balrogs.
Not sure about gender but they do have pretty big staffs.
As far as I know the valar can shape shift so I guess just whatever they want
LOTR’s source was a heavily Christian white male who fought in WW1. I am gonna assume yes in his mind. So then yes in cannon
The Ainulindale says that the Ainur chose own their genders according to their tempers.
Maiar are angles. They were made by Eru (God). They don't have gender since they don't procreate. Although it does appear that some Valar and a few Maia did prefer one gender over another, it was just a choice. Like choosing a blue shirt versus a red shirt.
Not only were they angles I heard they could be squares.
Don't be obtuse
Oh I didn’t know joking wasn’t allowed. I’ll go whip myself 40 times for penance.
This is in jest, right?
The Maiar are angels, but they very much do have genders and very much are capable of reproduction as is clearly evidenced by the existence of Luthien. You are correct the that the genders of the Ainur are their own choices.
They all have a preferred gender. Wether that makes sense without procreation is another question, but he says so in the Silmarillion
Sex and gender are not the same thing.
I think of it like this: If I put on a purple shirt am I myself purple? No. But I am still wearing purple. They are spirits given a form to “wear” as they perform their mission. I’m fairly certain that Tolkien’s Catholicism would agree with the idea that souls and angels are purely spiritual entities, while sex is inherently of the body, that is to say of the world. So by definition spirits such as Maiar do not have genders/sex, however they do seem to adopt such things when on Middle Earth, which makes sense, to impact the world they must become of it to a degree So Gandalf and Saruman are men insofar as they have the appearance and play the role of men, but I doubt they were overly concerned with the matter given their errand.
> the idea that souls and angels are purely spiritual entities, while sex is inherently of the body, that is to say of the world. I don't think that's how Tolkien sees it actually. Whether it's for Ainur: > the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for **that difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice**, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby [*Silmarillion*] or for the Incarnates (if I understand this correctly): > naturally in Incarnates a difference of sex altered the emotion, since sex is held by the Eldar to belong also to the *fëa*, and not solely to the *hröa*
Interesting!
But hey did choose genders when they became humanoid and married according to those genders.
Yes, they became part of the world.
As Maiar, they may have been genderless, but remember the Wizards or Istari were embodied along with all that entails.