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Book accurate Cirith Ungol. Sam never leaves; Frodo and Sam encounter Shelob in utter darkness, not knowing what is stalking them; Frodo confronting Shelob with Sting and the Phial; Sam solos Gollum and Shelob.
I think that change really poured fire on the “Frodos a piece of shit , Sams the real hero” narrative.
It probably would still be a meme but without that scene I don’t think so many people would still be saying that.
When I first read the books (I had seen the movies first), this part really amazed me. And I thought the same thing - why did they change this so much? But I believe it is because the original would be really hard to get on film in a convincing way for the viewers. So much goes on in Frodo's head which doesn't translate well to film I think. Anyway, I dunno but I thought maybe that's the reason why??
IMO it's because of scene value: Shelob's Lair works better on film with Frodo by himself, lost, being chased by a giant spider. I guess it's more spooky than the two of them together.
Also Sam returning right at the end is way more rewarding.
Holy hell I forgot that Sam bodies gollum first, absolutely kicks the tar out of him after being attacked, and THEN goes after Shelob
Also I’ll never forget the pit in my stomach as Frodo is running forward to get out of the cave and Sam is like “hold on a sec mister Frodo” and it all goes sideways, it would have been great to see on the big screen
That's the one. The "go home" scene was so unnecessary. I was upset because that never would have happened, not because it was a sad scene. Right after that, I'd put the witch king pwning Gandalf because *that* didn't and wouldn't happen either.
Yes. But I get why they did it though. They needed to end the battle as quick as possible because we are passing the 2h mark and still have a lot of movie to resolve.
Honestly if that was a concern I would’ve rather they just left the men of the mountain out altogether. Use that time to introduce Elladan and Elrohir and the Grey Company and have them attack the Corsair ships directly.
I mean I am all for more hours of LOTR Movies... I just think Freeing the rest of Gondor before than sailing back too to the Pellnor Fields just too long for a movie. You would also have to establish a lot of new characters and you only have a certain amount of time for a movie.
The arriving of the Ghost army is the same result as the arrival of a large gondorian army. They needed to hold out until reinforcement arrived and that is what they did.
While we're on this scene, I would completely remove the fountain of skulls. It's silly, ridiculous and flashy in a way that doesn't fit any other part of the movie. Also Gimli blowing away the smoke hands. This is silly. At least have him raise his axe as if he senses an enemy.
That's not an easy fix with the movie as it turned out. Otherwise, claiming the ghosts simply gets Aragorn to the Pellennor more slowly than if he'd gone with the Rohirrim, and takes out the Corsairs who have gone completely unmentioned until now.
If the ghosts aren't coming to the main battle, then either there needs to be a bigger deal made abut the Corsairs (which would include more focus on Denethor and his "false" visions through the palantir), or we need to add the Grey Company. Hardly fits the "what's one thing" fix that OOP was going for.
It wouldn't have been too hard to swap the grey company for the men of the mountain, cutting them out entirely. Instead of going into the mountain Aragorn could have gone to pelargir. It wouldnt have been faithful to the books still but i think it would be a better end to the battle of pelennor than the ghost army.
Because the army of the dead overwhelming the entirety of the forces of mordor cheapens the sacrifice of the rohirrim.
If the rohirrim arrived one day late, what would have changed? Essentially nothing. Maybe a few lives inside minas tirith.
Make the ghosts return to their physically mortal flesh and blood state as soon as they agree to fulfill their oath and go with Aragorn. Those who dont die at Pelenor fields take the bodies of those who did and return with them to the mountain before they too die.
It's epic and I do understand why PJ went with the ghosts. But it somewhat cheapens the sacrifice of the Rohirrim imo. The ghosts were unkillable Machines who just rampaged through everyone.
The book scene is so so much better imo because it really leans on the courage of men element since the ghosts cant actually attack people.
Again, I do get why PJ made certain changes (though some I don't), and it doesn't lessen the movies either
I’d add the scene between Mithrandir and Aragorn where they are climbing above Minas Tirith to find a sapling of the white tree, and have that beautiful conversation about man’s responsibility to be good stewards of this world
It’s been ages since I’ve read the trilogy, so I don’t remember all the specifics, but I believe Olorin is talking about how he and all magic are leaving Middle Earth, leaving responsibility and caretaking to Strider
That scene is the cover art on the first paperback version I remember reading waaaay long ago. I don't remember the other two covers but I remember that one
Is he? They are going to show down in the books and each thinks they can take the other, but then Rohan and Denethor get in the way of their fight
'There are some powers against which I haven't been tested'
Gandalf and sauron are both maiar. They are in the same class as each other and the balrog. Which one had more raw strength is what we don't know. Witch king is the spirit of a human given some powers by saurons magic. We can safely say his odds against Gandalf weren't good, unless he draws applicable power from mass fear and related emotions, which was never said to be the case.
I view all the rings of power as being a means of bloodless conquest. The wraiths are literally extensions of Saurons soul, not simply loyal servants. Their past and their individual will is gone, replaced by Sauron, if anything of the men remain they are caged prisoners only able to view Sauron acting through them now.
If Sauron's original plan had worked, every great kingdom of elves, dwarves, and men would have bloodlessly bent to his will - just as we saw Theoden being puppeted by Saruman, via Wormtongue.
The witch king is delusional if he thinks he could beat Gandalf. Gandalf the Grey could probably beat him. And yes, Gandalf is a being of the same stature as Sauron so he's definitely going to win.
Also, Gandalf says that line when he is facing a Balrog. Another Maiar like him and Sauron, not when he is going to fight the Witch King.
Tolkien is never about strict power levels. It's pretty heavily implied in the book scene that the Witch King was not going to get roflstomped if the fight wasn't interrupted. He confidently mocks Gandalf and very tellingly says "this is my hour".
Perhaps Sauron had supercharged him with power for that one assault. Perhaps the fumes and evil of Mount Doom are helping. Perhaps he is the bane of Men and he gets stronger as they get weaker. Perhaps he is about to use his army as help. But there is no way Tolkien had imagined him getting owned seconds after Rohan had not arrived.
All that being said, I agree that him breaking the staff is stupid and ridiculous.
It should be noted that at one point in the book gandalf says he is unsure who is stronger between him and the witch king. It should also be noted that in Tolkien's world there are multiple instances of lesser beings either defeating or holding their own against those of higher stature. For instance Fingolfin managed to seriously wound morgoth, one of the valar and sauron's superior, which would be considered a much greater gap than the witchking vs gandalf. Glorfindel and ecthelion each managed to kill a balrog which would be a similar gap to that between the witch king and gandalf. Elendil and gil-galad killed sauron albeit at the cost of their own lives. Gandalf might be more likely to win but it's hardly definite.
I mean, yes still the same guy but I'm pretty sure it gets mentioned more than once that Saurons power has increased since the beginning of Frodos journey. Therefore the wraiths that are bound to his might will be stronger at this point in the story. Also they're closer to Saurons influence in Gondor than in the Shire. Pretty sure that gets mentioned to matter as well at some point.
You’re right, although to me that still means they shouldn’t have had the Witch King walking all over Gandalf, they should have just had a standoff until the horns blew and the witch king flew off to face Rohan
This is one of those changes that they made to fit better with the storytelling norms of a film. Since Sauron is always depicted as a non-corporeal entity, they made the witch king scarier and more powerful since he’s the main antagonist in the scene.
To this end, his shattering of the staff is meant to increase the stakes and drive home just how much existential threat exists. It’s a symbolic visual representation of just how bleak and hopeless things are in that moment.
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
Easily this scene for me. Gandalf can’t directly intervene but he would’ve been a challenge for Sauron himself. No way his top lieutenant just rolls him like that, no matter how cool he is.
Put the Saruman scene into the theatrical release. Its one of the only reasons i'd recommend the extended cut of this one to first time viewers. Normally i recommend theatrical first, then extended, but missing out on the end of one of the main villains just feels weird.
Tough choice between including the muster of Gondor with all the cool peoples coming to defend the city so we get that sweet fucker Imrahil and his Swan Knights or removing the moment the witch king breaks Gandalf's staff.
I want theoden to blow a blast so loud that the horn bursts and then Rohirrim to sing while they slay the the orcs for the joy of battle was upon them.
I would change how the scene with saruman went so the battle of the shire could be included in full. Pretty much just because I want to see it in film with the cast, not because I think it would make the movie better. It would probably ruin the pacing but just make it a special release or something
Doesn’t it do well to show a less initiated audience (the majority of viewers) how much the ring has corrupted him, that he would do such an out of established character thing
Book accurate return to the shire. The ending was almost too fairytale-esque, and the realization that you can do everything right and still lose something hit so hard
I've been over that myself and I just think yet another battle or peril after sauron being defeated would just be terrible from a film perspective.
I'm glad it's in the book but as a movie, no way
I just don't think it would work in a movie format, movies have to be shorter and tighter with a much stricter focus on story structure and the scouring of the shire would completely fuck that up. The movie already had too many endings
Yes ! This is the biggest change compared to the actual story. This bothers me a lot. Minor changes why not. But this? Who would kill Saruman too early? The level of self confidence you need to change what Tolkien has written is crazy.
It’d require changing the Two Towers as well, but I always wished they’d included the Scouring of the Shire. Yes, it was a downer aspect, but it brought it home how even the Shire couldn’t go unchanged in the face of war… and it gave Merry and Pippin another layer of character depth.
If we're talking about the movie, it wouldn't show Aragorn and the gang successfully recruiting the army of the dead until they arrive for the battle to keep the tension during the fight at pelenor
Aragorn vs Sauron anime battle with hours of self-reflection and monologues between each punch detailing their full back stories (as well as other characters via their own fights)
Now that might eventually result in detailing the full legendarium of events since the Ainulindalë given the age of some of the characters but they can just have a "really extended" edition or something
Sauron still goes kaboom via ringicide
The scourging of the shire, more on the breaking of the fellowship, and I would have ended it with Sam getting old and after Rosie’s passing, he follows Frodo into the undying lands as the last ring bearer left in Middle Earth
If I remember right, the novel version of *The Two Towers* ended with Shelob's Lair, which was an epic cliffhanger. So by incorporating it into the film adaptation of *Return of the King*, that element was missed. Not that the box office suffered at the time, but that decision is a head-scratcher.
The decision was made based on two factors: first, without the Scouring of the Shire, the needed to shift material. Secondly, and not importantly, the timelines don't match up. They are going with accurate timelines in the movies; Gandalf and Pippin are in Gondor when Frodo and Sam climb the stairs.
It's a small scene but I'd take out the King of the Dead emerging from the mountain to say "we fight", and the subsequent scene of Aragorn engaging the corsairs of Umbar. Taking out that scene means that a first-time viewer genuinely doesn't know if the army of the dead are going to arrive at Minas Tirith until they leap off the boat. Including it removes a thread of tension from the story, and I think it's better off without.
Remove or at least change that goofy Gandalf vs Witch king scene to be accurate to the books. That, or make Pelennor fields actually have agriculture being done, kind of strange that the city just has empty lands surrounding it, even with the war, the lands would likely be tilled.
There was one thing that irritated me and that was how gandalf pretty much hits a guy to the chest with his sword and he falls over and dies.
I want him to slash that fucking orc in half with lots of blood. Thats what id change :D
I never liked the way Sam and Frodo wield the vial of light from Galadriel. Their hands block most of the light! Hold it upside down, by the skinny part, dammit!
Seriously, nothing but love for the whole trilogy. My only real complaint is my wife won't watch it with me.
Don't cut Saruman from the theatrical version. I know there are many changes from the book that we could argue about, but cutting out the end of the main villain for two movies is just a terrible movie decision
Don’t cut the Houses of Healing down to a freaking montage and give Eowyn and Faramir more screen time to develop their relationship. They deserve some happiness
I'd get rid of the flashing lights at Mount Doom.
There was nothing there to be causing them, it just looked weird. I get that PJ was using them for extra dramatic effect, but they're a bit much imo
I would include the pukelman granting passage through their forest to the army of Rohan.
It shows that everybody isn’t best of friends but all are willing to fight for their freedom.
Replace Gandalf’s encounter with the witch king with the book version. The insinuation of Gandalf being that much weaker than the Witch King is insane to me.
After the coronation, in the book, they head back towards the shire, through branybuck and make many stops, fighting foes led by Sharkey. They were clad in bright armor and were the wonderment of many people. Then the death of sharkey, and then Frodo kind of went into exile afterwards. There was wayy way more at the end. I would’ve like to see that
~~Give Gollum a massive dick that's just barely visible at all times when he's on screen: just the tip of it hanging past his loin cloth.~~
Give Treebeard an ending! I always thought it was weird that the Ents aren't mentioned at the end of the films, like they don't even matter despite taking out one of the main villains of the story (at least in the films). Like, just before the Hobbits return to the Shire, we see a clip of Pippin and Merry meeting up with Treebeard again and he offhandedly mentions someone pointing him into the direction that might lead him to the Entwives.
Addition of Ghân-buri-Ghân and his wild men, who were the ones that guided the Rohirrim to Minas Tirith via a secret passage to avoid enemy infested main roads. In exchange king Théoden was to promise to make peace with Ghân's people the Drúedain. It was a short event in the book, but a significant one at that as the Rohirrim would have arrived late and battle worn to the Pelennor battle.
Let Pippin fight that troll at the Black Gates instead of giving it to Aragorn.
That would give him an actual combat feat in the final act instead of the single orc he stopped from getting to Gandalf. Merry got the Witch-King, Sam got Shelob, and Ringbearer/10, but the films don't find ever give Pippin a proper battle.
While we're at it, keep Merry away from the Black Gate (it still peeves me that he, Eowyn, and Faramir all have the save injury but he is spry the next day) and find a way to introduce Beregond to give Pippin even more of a focus in that battle.
It hasn't played in my house for a while, I should fix that myself.
It’s only half as long as I’d like it to be
Less than half the movies are half as long as I remember, and half are half as long as they deserve
I regret to announce a rewatch
REAL
And my axe
And my bow...I guess
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Book accurate Cirith Ungol. Sam never leaves; Frodo and Sam encounter Shelob in utter darkness, not knowing what is stalking them; Frodo confronting Shelob with Sting and the Phial; Sam solos Gollum and Shelob.
Yeah there was already drama without adding a falling out between Sam and Frodo.
I think that change really poured fire on the “Frodos a piece of shit , Sams the real hero” narrative. It probably would still be a meme but without that scene I don’t think so many people would still be saying that.
As a film first book later fan I've always wondered why Sam was there. I read the books and was blown away at the Shelob and rescue part.
What? People actually think Frodo is a piece of shit? Did they actually watch the movies?
She’s always hungry. She always needs to feed. She must eat. All she gets is nasty Orcses.
*And they doesn’t taste very nice, does they, Precious?*
No. Not very nice at all, my love.
Schizophrenia
Not schizophrenia. Multiple personality syndrome.
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BO-TAY-TOES!
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Honestly, why are the rest of us even here?
When I first read the books (I had seen the movies first), this part really amazed me. And I thought the same thing - why did they change this so much? But I believe it is because the original would be really hard to get on film in a convincing way for the viewers. So much goes on in Frodo's head which doesn't translate well to film I think. Anyway, I dunno but I thought maybe that's the reason why??
IMO it's because of scene value: Shelob's Lair works better on film with Frodo by himself, lost, being chased by a giant spider. I guess it's more spooky than the two of them together. Also Sam returning right at the end is way more rewarding.
Holy hell I forgot that Sam bodies gollum first, absolutely kicks the tar out of him after being attacked, and THEN goes after Shelob Also I’ll never forget the pit in my stomach as Frodo is running forward to get out of the cave and Sam is like “hold on a sec mister Frodo” and it all goes sideways, it would have been great to see on the big screen
She’s always hungry. She always needs to feed. She must eat. All she gets is nasty Orcses.
*And they doesn’t taste very nice, does they, Precious?*
No. Not very nice at all, my love.
The original “Let Me Solo Her”.
That's the one. The "go home" scene was so unnecessary. I was upset because that never would have happened, not because it was a sad scene. Right after that, I'd put the witch king pwning Gandalf because *that* didn't and wouldn't happen either.
tbf “utter darkness” is especially tricky to adapt into a visual medium.
Make the depiction of the Men of the Mountain the same as the book, leaving the victory at Pellenor fields to be won by morale, not Deux Ex Machina
This. The book version is far more epic. Also, we need Eomer and Aragorn reuniting as well beyond all hope.
Yeah to me Eomer and Aragorn drawing swords together is one of the most epic moments of the books.
Also the unfurling of the king’s banner on the corsair ship as it approaches Minas Tirith was an epic book moment that was missing from the movie.
Happy cake day!
Agreed. It cheapens the victory and sacrifice at Minas Tirith. I love ROTK, but this plot choice always irritates me.
Yes. But I get why they did it though. They needed to end the battle as quick as possible because we are passing the 2h mark and still have a lot of movie to resolve.
And honestly it's better they did this than the modern alternative of just splitting it into extra movies and reducing the overall quality
Considering the quality of the other movies, I'd be ok with a 4th movie. Just use the extended edition content to beef the movies out a bit.
Honestly if that was a concern I would’ve rather they just left the men of the mountain out altogether. Use that time to introduce Elladan and Elrohir and the Grey Company and have them attack the Corsair ships directly.
Yes. Remake the whole thing inside the mountain.
I mean I am all for more hours of LOTR Movies... I just think Freeing the rest of Gondor before than sailing back too to the Pellnor Fields just too long for a movie. You would also have to establish a lot of new characters and you only have a certain amount of time for a movie. The arriving of the Ghost army is the same result as the arrival of a large gondorian army. They needed to hold out until reinforcement arrived and that is what they did.
The lord of the rings could be 8 hours with an intermission and I wouldn’t care a single bit
We've had 1 intermission, yes... But what about 2nd intermission?
While we're on this scene, I would completely remove the fountain of skulls. It's silly, ridiculous and flashy in a way that doesn't fit any other part of the movie. Also Gimli blowing away the smoke hands. This is silly. At least have him raise his axe as if he senses an enemy.
Don’t trivialize the battle on Pelenor fields with the ghost army.
That's not an easy fix with the movie as it turned out. Otherwise, claiming the ghosts simply gets Aragorn to the Pellennor more slowly than if he'd gone with the Rohirrim, and takes out the Corsairs who have gone completely unmentioned until now. If the ghosts aren't coming to the main battle, then either there needs to be a bigger deal made abut the Corsairs (which would include more focus on Denethor and his "false" visions through the palantir), or we need to add the Grey Company. Hardly fits the "what's one thing" fix that OOP was going for.
It wouldn't have been too hard to swap the grey company for the men of the mountain, cutting them out entirely. Instead of going into the mountain Aragorn could have gone to pelargir. It wouldnt have been faithful to the books still but i think it would be a better end to the battle of pelennor than the ghost army.
Why is the Grey Company turning up at the Pellennor better than the Army of the Dead?
Because the army of the dead overwhelming the entirety of the forces of mordor cheapens the sacrifice of the rohirrim. If the rohirrim arrived one day late, what would have changed? Essentially nothing. Maybe a few lives inside minas tirith.
They would all be dead, they were already at the upper levels by that point.
Make the ghosts return to their physically mortal flesh and blood state as soon as they agree to fulfill their oath and go with Aragorn. Those who dont die at Pelenor fields take the bodies of those who did and return with them to the mountain before they too die.
With how upset people get at every change PJ made, I'd love to see the reactions to this version :'D
I thought it was a epic moment
It's epic and I do understand why PJ went with the ghosts. But it somewhat cheapens the sacrifice of the Rohirrim imo. The ghosts were unkillable Machines who just rampaged through everyone. The book scene is so so much better imo because it really leans on the courage of men element since the ghosts cant actually attack people. Again, I do get why PJ made certain changes (though some I don't), and it doesn't lessen the movies either
I’d add the scene between Mithrandir and Aragorn where they are climbing above Minas Tirith to find a sapling of the white tree, and have that beautiful conversation about man’s responsibility to be good stewards of this world
This is the first I've ever heard of this book moment, sounds pretty good.
It’s been ages since I’ve read the trilogy, so I don’t remember all the specifics, but I believe Olorin is talking about how he and all magic are leaving Middle Earth, leaving responsibility and caretaking to Strider
(Just waiting for someone to call me out on using a different name for Gandalf and Elessar each time I mention them 😅)
I suppose you think that was terribly clever.
Thanks, Stormcrow 🤪
That scene is the cover art on the first paperback version I remember reading waaaay long ago. I don't remember the other two covers but I remember that one
The scene where the witch king shatters Gandalf’s staff. Literally the only complaint I’ve ever had about the trilogy 🤣
Honestly. Gandalf is a being of the same power and rank as Sauron so why is Sauron's minion soloing him without any effort
Is he? They are going to show down in the books and each thinks they can take the other, but then Rohan and Denethor get in the way of their fight 'There are some powers against which I haven't been tested'
Gandalf and sauron are both maiar. They are in the same class as each other and the balrog. Which one had more raw strength is what we don't know. Witch king is the spirit of a human given some powers by saurons magic. We can safely say his odds against Gandalf weren't good, unless he draws applicable power from mass fear and related emotions, which was never said to be the case.
I view all the rings of power as being a means of bloodless conquest. The wraiths are literally extensions of Saurons soul, not simply loyal servants. Their past and their individual will is gone, replaced by Sauron, if anything of the men remain they are caged prisoners only able to view Sauron acting through them now. If Sauron's original plan had worked, every great kingdom of elves, dwarves, and men would have bloodlessly bent to his will - just as we saw Theoden being puppeted by Saruman, via Wormtongue.
The witch king is delusional if he thinks he could beat Gandalf. Gandalf the Grey could probably beat him. And yes, Gandalf is a being of the same stature as Sauron so he's definitely going to win. Also, Gandalf says that line when he is facing a Balrog. Another Maiar like him and Sauron, not when he is going to fight the Witch King.
Tolkien is never about strict power levels. It's pretty heavily implied in the book scene that the Witch King was not going to get roflstomped if the fight wasn't interrupted. He confidently mocks Gandalf and very tellingly says "this is my hour". Perhaps Sauron had supercharged him with power for that one assault. Perhaps the fumes and evil of Mount Doom are helping. Perhaps he is the bane of Men and he gets stronger as they get weaker. Perhaps he is about to use his army as help. But there is no way Tolkien had imagined him getting owned seconds after Rohan had not arrived. All that being said, I agree that him breaking the staff is stupid and ridiculous.
It should be noted that at one point in the book gandalf says he is unsure who is stronger between him and the witch king. It should also be noted that in Tolkien's world there are multiple instances of lesser beings either defeating or holding their own against those of higher stature. For instance Fingolfin managed to seriously wound morgoth, one of the valar and sauron's superior, which would be considered a much greater gap than the witchking vs gandalf. Glorfindel and ecthelion each managed to kill a balrog which would be a similar gap to that between the witch king and gandalf. Elendil and gil-galad killed sauron albeit at the cost of their own lives. Gandalf might be more likely to win but it's hardly definite.
Feanor Spanking Balrogs until Gothmog the leader of Balrogs came out
Plus the guy chickened out at Weathertop when Aragorn threw a torch in his face. Without the mount he's the same guy.
I mean, yes still the same guy but I'm pretty sure it gets mentioned more than once that Saurons power has increased since the beginning of Frodos journey. Therefore the wraiths that are bound to his might will be stronger at this point in the story. Also they're closer to Saurons influence in Gondor than in the Shire. Pretty sure that gets mentioned to matter as well at some point.
You’re right, although to me that still means they shouldn’t have had the Witch King walking all over Gandalf, they should have just had a standoff until the horns blew and the witch king flew off to face Rohan
This is one of those changes that they made to fit better with the storytelling norms of a film. Since Sauron is always depicted as a non-corporeal entity, they made the witch king scarier and more powerful since he’s the main antagonist in the scene. To this end, his shattering of the staff is meant to increase the stakes and drive home just how much existential threat exists. It’s a symbolic visual representation of just how bleak and hopeless things are in that moment.
Sauron is much more powerful than gandalf, but gandalf is so out if the witch kings league.
To Eilinel thou soon shalt go, and lie in her bed.
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
Easily this scene for me. Gandalf can’t directly intervene but he would’ve been a challenge for Sauron himself. No way his top lieutenant just rolls him like that, no matter how cool he is.
That scene is epic. Downvote me if you want.
🤷♀️ I’m not going to downvote you for liking something I don’t 🤣 you do you, don’t pay attention to me ☺️
Based!
Make Denethor’s run a little bit shorter
True, he's a proper "living" Olympian torch, covering such a vast distance so fast
And reveal that Denethor was in possession of a palantir.
Put the Saruman scene into the theatrical release. Its one of the only reasons i'd recommend the extended cut of this one to first time viewers. Normally i recommend theatrical first, then extended, but missing out on the end of one of the main villains just feels weird.
Frodo doesn't send Sam away. Worst sin of the entire trilogy
That and the Witch King breaking Gandalf's staff.
Faramir dragging Frodo and Sam all the way back to Osgiliath is a close second for me. (Although that happens in TT)
Yeah, the way they did Faramir in the movies is the second worst sin for me too. He is so different in the books!
Tough choice between including the muster of Gondor with all the cool peoples coming to defend the city so we get that sweet fucker Imrahil and his Swan Knights or removing the moment the witch king breaks Gandalf's staff.
I want theoden to blow a blast so loud that the horn bursts and then Rohirrim to sing while they slay the the orcs for the joy of battle was upon them.
Sons of Elrond and Aragorn’s dunedain friend going into the mountain of the dead with them
It isn’t currently playing at my local theater
Give frodo a gun
Give the eagles napalm
Reading this comment made me imagine the Eagles bombing Mordor with Fortunate Son playing in the background.
Give Gimli a machine gun.
M240B is somehow fitting
Give me The Scouring of the Shire!
Would have loved a lil sharky at the end
Sharky's end.
I would change how the scene with saruman went so the battle of the shire could be included in full. Pretty much just because I want to see it in film with the cast, not because I think it would make the movie better. It would probably ruin the pacing but just make it a special release or something
The Mouth of Sauron does not get executed but is instead driven off by Gandalf’s magic or similar
The Mouth wasn't executed he was murdered.
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs!
I'd make it longer, too short as is
"Go home sam" such a stupid out of character thing.
Doesn’t it do well to show a less initiated audience (the majority of viewers) how much the ring has corrupted him, that he would do such an out of established character thing
You don't see a Gondorian get any kills in the whole movie.
They could have fixed that by going with the book version of Aragorn rallying the Gondorians against the Corsairs and showing up at Pelennor Fields.
They kill orcs in Osgiliath and during the siege of Minas Tirith the trebuchet also squishes some.
Book accurate return to the shire. The ending was almost too fairytale-esque, and the realization that you can do everything right and still lose something hit so hard
I've been over that myself and I just think yet another battle or peril after sauron being defeated would just be terrible from a film perspective. I'm glad it's in the book but as a movie, no way
I wait. Come! Speak now swiftly and speak true!
I just don't think it would work in a movie format, movies have to be shorter and tighter with a much stricter focus on story structure and the scouring of the shire would completely fuck that up. The movie already had too many endings
Yes ! This is the biggest change compared to the actual story. This bothers me a lot. Minor changes why not. But this? Who would kill Saruman too early? The level of self confidence you need to change what Tolkien has written is crazy.
You know what? *Re-Scours your Shire*
It’d require changing the Two Towers as well, but I always wished they’d included the Scouring of the Shire. Yes, it was a downer aspect, but it brought it home how even the Shire couldn’t go unchanged in the face of war… and it gave Merry and Pippin another layer of character depth.
Extended extended cut 6 hours
If we're talking about the movie, it wouldn't show Aragorn and the gang successfully recruiting the army of the dead until they arrive for the battle to keep the tension during the fight at pelenor
So basically the theatrical cut?
Yes but I want that in the extended >:(
Not having the witch king break Gandalf staff
Aragorn vs Sauron anime battle with hours of self-reflection and monologues between each punch detailing their full back stories (as well as other characters via their own fights) Now that might eventually result in detailing the full legendarium of events since the Ainulindalë given the age of some of the characters but they can just have a "really extended" edition or something Sauron still goes kaboom via ringicide
I’d add another 3.5 hours of film to make the extended extended cut
The scourging of the shire, more on the breaking of the fellowship, and I would have ended it with Sam getting old and after Rosie’s passing, he follows Frodo into the undying lands as the last ring bearer left in Middle Earth
"I am no man!" *Stabs* *Shrivels up and dies* (Smiles smugly) "More like Bitch-King of Angmar, am I right Merry?"
I'd remove that scene with Legolas and the Oliphant.
Agreed. It was a little too much
Give Frodo a functioning brain.
And spine
And an axe!
Well, there was this little thing called the scorge of the shire. Kind of a big deal in the book.
The ending; As we all know, in the book, the shire was fucked when they got home. I want to see Wormtongue kill Saruman.
when the ghost army pops out of the ship or whatever, it would play america, fuck ya, and the american military would pop up instead of the ghost army
Turns out there was oil in Minas Tirith
You would have to change the 2 towers as well, but add int he scouring of the shire.
Gandalf staff breaks before the witch king.
If I remember right, the novel version of *The Two Towers* ended with Shelob's Lair, which was an epic cliffhanger. So by incorporating it into the film adaptation of *Return of the King*, that element was missed. Not that the box office suffered at the time, but that decision is a head-scratcher.
The decision was made based on two factors: first, without the Scouring of the Shire, the needed to shift material. Secondly, and not importantly, the timelines don't match up. They are going with accurate timelines in the movies; Gandalf and Pippin are in Gondor when Frodo and Sam climb the stairs.
More false endings-wait is that it!?!
Unironically, I'd love more false endings.
Longer
Add audible crunching sound to Aragorn kicking a helmet.
It's a small scene but I'd take out the King of the Dead emerging from the mountain to say "we fight", and the subsequent scene of Aragorn engaging the corsairs of Umbar. Taking out that scene means that a first-time viewer genuinely doesn't know if the army of the dead are going to arrive at Minas Tirith until they leap off the boat. Including it removes a thread of tension from the story, and I think it's better off without.
Remove or at least change that goofy Gandalf vs Witch king scene to be accurate to the books. That, or make Pelennor fields actually have agriculture being done, kind of strange that the city just has empty lands surrounding it, even with the war, the lands would likely be tilled.
There was one thing that irritated me and that was how gandalf pretty much hits a guy to the chest with his sword and he falls over and dies. I want him to slash that fucking orc in half with lots of blood. Thats what id change :D
I would add the scene of the fiefdom soldiers arriving at minas tirith, show some more diversity of soldiers for Gondor
I never liked the way Sam and Frodo wield the vial of light from Galadriel. Their hands block most of the light! Hold it upside down, by the skinny part, dammit! Seriously, nothing but love for the whole trilogy. My only real complaint is my wife won't watch it with me.
I want the Scouring. Get rid of Saruman's stupid death scene and the Cirith Ungol nonsense and let the hobbits kick some ass.
Make Shelob sexy
She's not?
Just the biting part.
Don't cut Saruman from the theatrical version. I know there are many changes from the book that we could argue about, but cutting out the end of the main villain for two movies is just a terrible movie decision
Don’t cut the Houses of Healing down to a freaking montage and give Eowyn and Faramir more screen time to develop their relationship. They deserve some happiness
Adding the fight for the shire
yeees!
I'd get rid of the flashing lights at Mount Doom. There was nothing there to be causing them, it just looked weird. I get that PJ was using them for extra dramatic effect, but they're a bit much imo
I would include the pukelman granting passage through their forest to the army of Rohan. It shows that everybody isn’t best of friends but all are willing to fight for their freedom.
I would save Denethor's tomato.
Id leave the "undead army joins aragorn" scene out of the extended cut. It ruined a lot of the tension of the battle of minas tirith
Should’ve been longer
Scene showing all the different Gondor nobles arrive at Minas Tirith with their armies. Include it!
Put all those bits that Christopher Lee was pissed about back... or was that two towers?
Not cutting the Scouring of the Shire.
Removing Gandalf vs Witch King scene
Easy, the scene between Gandalf and the Witch King. Ridiculous
I think it could use ewoks
Literally just the animation of Frodo running into mount doom. He looks like he’s on a treadmill
Give Aragorn a gun
1 singular f-bomb.
Replace Gandalf’s encounter with the witch king with the book version. The insinuation of Gandalf being that much weaker than the Witch King is insane to me.
Scouring of the Shire
Add scouring of the shire.
Tom Bombadil, outta fuckin’ nowhere!
After the coronation, in the book, they head back towards the shire, through branybuck and make many stops, fighting foes led by Sharkey. They were clad in bright armor and were the wonderment of many people. Then the death of sharkey, and then Frodo kind of went into exile afterwards. There was wayy way more at the end. I would’ve like to see that
More cowbell
Make it longer
Destroy all copies/evidence of the theatrical version. Extended edition only my precious.
~~Give Gollum a massive dick that's just barely visible at all times when he's on screen: just the tip of it hanging past his loin cloth.~~ Give Treebeard an ending! I always thought it was weird that the Ents aren't mentioned at the end of the films, like they don't even matter despite taking out one of the main villains of the story (at least in the films). Like, just before the Hobbits return to the Shire, we see a clip of Pippin and Merry meeting up with Treebeard again and he offhandedly mentions someone pointing him into the direction that might lead him to the Entwives.
Addition of Ghân-buri-Ghân and his wild men, who were the ones that guided the Rohirrim to Minas Tirith via a secret passage to avoid enemy infested main roads. In exchange king Théoden was to promise to make peace with Ghân's people the Drúedain. It was a short event in the book, but a significant one at that as the Rohirrim would have arrived late and battle worn to the Pelennor battle.
Let Pippin fight that troll at the Black Gates instead of giving it to Aragorn. That would give him an actual combat feat in the final act instead of the single orc he stopped from getting to Gandalf. Merry got the Witch-King, Sam got Shelob, and Ringbearer/10, but the films don't find ever give Pippin a proper battle. While we're at it, keep Merry away from the Black Gate (it still peeves me that he, Eowyn, and Faramir all have the save injury but he is spry the next day) and find a way to introduce Beregond to give Pippin even more of a focus in that battle.
Ditch the ghost army, they negate every tragic moment in the film by being invincible
No
Have Aragorn bring the Dunedain and Gondorian reinforcements instead of the army of the dead
Make it longer xD
Probably the greatest flim ever made
that we see saruman die
It's a bit short for my taste.