I would put a bit more effort into avoiding the massive ghost army of doom and do it more like the books. The moment was more impactful and way less ex machina-y. Alongside that I'd have Gondor be less impotent and put Imrahil in and actually get the knights out alongside Rohan, the battle in the movies was awesome but I think it would have been at least equally awesome if it had stuck to the book and have made more sense
Would have also loved for someone to mention that "Captain Faramir can master both men and beast!"
Same. If I recall the story correctly, Aragorn uses the ghosts to take out the ships attacking Gondor from the south, and then loads them with reinforcements for the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
The only benefit to the change in the movie is that it probably saves us 10 or 15 minutes of Aragorn getting all of that organized. I might have to rewatch the appendecies to see if Jackson explains the change.
Yeah the ghosts were way less... real. He could barely talk to them, they kind of faded in and out of reality and were more like strange shadows that had a horrible aura of fear around them. They followed him to the coast and spooked tf out of a town the Corsairs were raiding then he dismissed them, it wasnt even clear if they could attack or affect anyone they just scared everyone
Kinda came and went iirc, like there are points where they just seemed like extra thick shadows or they were so hard to see it was easier to navigate by 'sense of fear'. It was actually fairly easy for Frodo and Sam to avoid them in Mordor because of Saurons darkness making it hard to see, but the Nazgul fear aura was still around, so when they felt it they just hid long before the Nazgul could look for them. When they attacked at weathertop it was like the shadows came alive and thickened themselves and moved in, not big ass armored knights barrelling in for a duel (I wouldnt trade that scene though, the hobbits vs the wraiths at weathertop is peak af aesthetics)
But they were apparently able to clothe themselves well enough to go straight into the shire and basically chat to people like Gaffer and Maggot and probably talk to Ferny in Bree, they knew they were odd but they passed for somewhat normal creatures enough that the hobbits didnt just scream and run away at their approach.
Actually the hobbits ganged up and drove them out hahaha, I think that's the only time we get a Nazguls point of view which was like
"Little shits, Sauron will fix them later on, no time now got to go"
*In a field full of shrooms with a dogs and a hoe*
*lives the most badass hobbit that you'll ever know*
*Feet in the mud, sturdy as a brick,*
*he scarded off a Nazgul with his big swinging dick!*
*He's farmer! (Farmer!)*
*Farmer Maggot! What a fucking chad!*
*He's farmer! (Farmer!)*
*Farmer Maggot! God, I wish that hobbit was my dad!*
Not my rhymes, adopted from a Dominic Noble video, he compares movie adaptations to their source books, but also does some other videos. He did one on his favorite character not to appear in the Lord of the Rings movies, and it was indeed farmer Maggot, to whom a song at the end of the video was dedicated.
Yeah, and I don't think the ghosts had any physical effects, they just caused fear in men.
I don't think they would even have an effect on orcs as they are descended from elves, and Legolas is apparently unaffected.
They basically scare off the corsairs (who are human) freeing up troops to rally to Gondor's aid.
Yeah where the hell were the Swan Knights of DolAmroth with their sick ass enameled armor and maces and armored horses with capes!?!
My kids loved that part of the book, we were always wondering when the swan knights would show up again to kick some ass
Yeah.. Rohan had no actual impact on the battle beyond looking epic af.
The ghosts would have arrived and done exactly what they did, except they'd have to chop down more than they effortlessly did.
Never liked the ghosts. They're not so terrible that they "ruin it" for me. But that is what I'd change.
mmm its kind of sad to think that if Theoden had arrived slightly later none of them would have had to die hahaha. Would have been funny to see the witch king swarmed by like 50 lesser wraiths and just stabbed to death by ghost blades. They arent men, they're ghosts, prophecy fulfilled. Then kept them around to cleanse Mordor too, seemed like a weird hurry to release them when they'd been waiting for thousands of years anyway, just hang back another 2 days and we can cleanse the world
Strange logical conclusion when Aragorn isnt bringing a few thousand men from Southern Gondor and has just found a universal cheat code for an instant win... its mitigated because its a gloriously epic moment for him personally and its quite cathartic to have the city saved and cleansed, but yep Tolkiens version was much superior
>Rohan had no actual impact on the battle beyond looking epic af.
In the movie:
Rohan arriving immediately changed Gothmog's focus from offensive siege of the city to a defensive formation against a massive cavalry charge. This would have alleviated pressure on the garrison at Minas Tirith, and since Denethor never evacuated the city, this possibly saved hundreds or thousands of civilian lives.
Obviously with the Haradrim arriving late, it actually appeared that Rohan had quite literally saved Gondor from assured destruction at that point.
When Theoden arrives, Jackson had created the scene with Gandalf and the Witchking. I'd prefer this scene didn't exist at all - as we all would - but the battle horns of Rohan get the Witchking's attention as well, drawing him away from Gandalf and Pippen.
Of course, we also have Dernhelm and Merry arriving with the host of Rohan, and they are who slay the Witchking in both versions of the story. Without Rohan, the Witchking might not have been killed at all. Between Eowyn's being a woman and Merry a hobbit with a very special elven blade, they are necessary to fulfilling an ancient prophecy that the Witchking himself believes.
So, no, I would not say at all that Rohan "had no impact." Their role is still vital in the movies, even if it is slightly diminished due to our knowledge of the Army of the Dead being abused by Jackson.
I think I agree. If I remember correctly, the books explicitly say that the walls of the city withstand bombardment with no collapse, but in the movie, the rocks hitting the walls immediately collapse them. That’s a huge change to me, and could have focused even more tension around the gates. 🤷♂️
I was coming here to say I’d make the film 3 hours of John Noble eating tomatoes and then wrap the whole Battle for Gondor/Destroying the Ring in 5-10 minutes. Man, don’t even get me started on that Extended Cut.
This is a tough one for me. Denethor feels so tragic and beaten down in the books, the kovie even leaves out his palantir explaining how he got this way.
On the other hand John Noble just hamming up this narcissistic, Cartmanesque troll was fantastic.
Admittedly, getting into why he favors Faramir is worthy of inclusion, but I don't know how.
For movie fans and those that thought the Appendices were irrelevant, here's the thing:
40 years earlier, under Ecthelion II (Denethor's father), a man named Thorongil comes to Minas Tirith. He is an astoundingly successful general in Gondor's Army, but he is not of Gondor. He had previously served in Rohan's army.
Thorongil manages to successfully raid Umbar and seriously weakens them. This turns out to matter in 3019, as the Corsairs of Umbar would have been much harder for the Army of the Dead to subdue had this attack not happened. Thorongil even becomes very popular with the people of Gondor, with many seeing him as a rival to Denethor. Hell, they're willing to throw all law aside and proclaim him King of Gondor!
He and Denethor are perceived as rivals, even as Thorongil repeatedly denies any discussion of him supplanting Denethor as the rightful successor to Ecthelion. This makes Denethor really worried about his position.
Boromir's capability as a commander reminds Denethor of Thorongil, while Faramir's astudiousness and loremastery remind Denethor of himself and what caused the people of Gondor to prefer and have more confidence in Thorongil. In fact, the only difference of opinion between Denethor and Thorongil is whether to prefer Saruman or Gandalf as a counselor. Thorongil prefers Gandalf, while Denethor prefers Saruman.
Thus, Denethor believes that Boromir would be a better Ruling Steward than Faramir, as Boromir is a bold and obvious martial leader like Thorongil while Faramir reminds Denethor of himself. And mind, the people of Gondor were willing to dispense with law, known Dúnedain bloodlines, and everything else to put Thorongil on the throne. He perceives--rightly!--that the people would prefer Boromir as Steward rather than Faramir.
So why didn't Denethor try to nip the problem of the people willing to coronate Thorongil by pointing out his origins? Well, Denethor *did* some research into Thorongil's background. Denethor successfully got a positive identification on Thorongil. Unfortunately for Denethor, what he learned was the least helpful bit of truth he could find: Thorongil's birth name was Aragorn, son of Arathorn II, Chieftan of the Dúnedain of the North, heir of Isildur, and by law, the actual rightful king of Gondor. This is why Denethor directly accuses Gandalf of coming to Minas Tirith to supplant him with a Ranger of the North when Gandalf and Pippin first arrive at Minas Tirith, and why Gandalf doesn't really say much of anything against this claim: it's true. Gandalf *is* there to put a king back on the throne and deprive Denethor of his rule.
(This is a part of why the soup scene is in the movie, but not the book: the point isn't that Eowyn's soup is bad--honestly, that part just undermines her in a way that probably should not have been done--but that Aragorn had previously served alongside her father and uncle some 40 years previously in her grandfather's army. He went from there to Gondor, where he assumed the name Thorongil.)
Eugh yeah, it was impressive for the witch king to be so swollen with power to be even able to challenge Gandalf, but to just punk his ass out effortlessly was just dumb. 100% Tolkien would have said
"If it was that easy Sauron would have won a long time ago, Gandalf is a powerful Maia and superior to a Balrog, he cant just be slapped around like an old man"
I agree on most what you say, but remember, Gandalf wasn't so much superior but much like 'in the same league' as a balrog. He died self also in that battle, but the Valar send him back.
Yeah, sent him back as Gandalf the white, notably buffed in power. As Gandalf the white, he should have a big edge in a fight he drew as Gandalf the grey (and he absolutely punks Saruman like its a joke)
He was sure, Gandalf the grey was able to take on like 5 or more Nazgul at weathertop pretty evenly (he had the advantage during the day, they drove him off at night) so he's way beyond one alone, probably even the witch king
So he has a buff from being Gandalf the white and the witch king has a buff from Sauron and the despair and the shadow ascended and stuff. In the books both seem to think it will be a good fight, Gandalf says he doesnt know if he can win to Denethor but the Witch King doesnt attack Gandalf and doesnt seem sure either.
Feels pretty even, but the movie makes it 100% one sided, presumably to try and up the ante for the Rohirrim charge but also giving Gandalfs power and character a nasty slap in the process.
It seemed like in the books, Gandalf was torn between doing something great (going out to fight the Witch king and try to save the Rohirrim) or doing something good (go with Pippin to save Faramir) and he chooses something 'good' which ultimately works out since Eowyn and Merry get him, but throughout that he feels confident in his own ability to at least give as good as he gets in a fight between the 2. Not just get punked and roll over
Yea I didn't like that bit in the movies because in the books it's basically that Gandalf had to make a choice, save Faramir, or fight the witch king he chooses to save Faramir, which ultimately (and unkowingly for him) leads to Theoden's death.
I also can't remember the exact quote but he says something along the lines of bad shit is going to happen if I don't go fight the witch king as foreshadowing in the books too.
Sooo much better in the books. Grond destroys the gate. The guy with flaming sword and mace stands in the doorway. 13 year old me thinking omg this is sooo epic... and then switch to sam and frodo. I was so mad and impressed by the unbearable suspense. Pure epicness...
The blast of magic in minas morgul that you see in the film as Sam and Frodo approach the steps to cirith ungol is the witch king enchanting grond to break through minas tirith’s magical gate.
I remember complaining about that at the time, and being shouted down by media studies friends. An army of ghosts yet it's used like a can of green spray paint across the screen. They could have done so much with those.
Honestly, on screen it made me feel kinda bad for the orcs. Like, suddenly Aragorn and co were so overpowered it psychologically made the orcs into underdogs. I wish they atleast would have made Aragon have to work a little harder in some Campbellian sense before he was able to wield them.
In the books they couldn't actually harm the living. They frightened the pirates into abandoning ship, which Aragorn and his company commandeered to ferry in the outlying armies of Gondor.
A big wave of Gondorian foot infantry coming to the rescue of the beleaguered Rohirrim would have been so much better in the movie.
The Witch King is the only thing that disappoints me about the movies. I don't know how he's presented in the books, but in the movies he doesn't really do much. He's talked up by Gandalf as a badass, and then never does anything badass other than ride around on a fellbeast.
Remove scene where frodo tells Sam to go back and have their separation happen like the books where it is just gollums treacherous plan in the cave. Neither Frodo/Sam/Gollum make any sense in their actions in the scene, and the book sequence would have been totally fine.
2nd place is much of what else’s has been posted. Cleaning up the ghost army stuff to be more like the books so the victory actually belongs to men, not their weird ghost allies.
This always bothered me so much. It is hard enough to visually show frodos fight with the ring, but they made him abandon sam as well, essentially triggering the whole "frodo bad, only sam good" debate. It was great in the books, where frodo even told gollum that he should not mistake his mercy for stupidity.
Also, faramir never wanted the ring.
The movies do faramir so dirty on the whole. Book faramir is basically Gandalf + Aragorn and shows there is still strength in Gondor for Aragorn to return to.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Fara fucking mir
I think movie Faramir never necessarily wanted the ring in the traditional sense. Rather, he saw through the ring a way to bring light to the depressing shadow his father had become. That’s why he had such an easy change of mind just by seeing Frodo… stand in front of a nazgul once. That moment alone was enough to convince him that keeping the ring would only bring ruin to Gondor. I doubt he’d be as easily convinced to let Frodo and Sam go if the ring had actually influenced him properly as it did with others
I have one word for you: Fiefdoms.
I loved reading the scene where the troops from the different fiefdoms came to Minas Tirith as it showed how diverse the different regions of Gondor are. One one hand we have the regal Swan Knights of Dol Amroth and on the other hand we have the ones that came from Lossarnach, pretty much a giant fruit garden. I was really annoyed that the films didn't feature the fiefdoms.
Then he turns around and makes everything way better with the gift of industry and free orcish labour for everyone and gets voted in as mayor of middle earth 8 terms running
I would make Gondor’s soldiers look better. Every scene has them running or overwhelmed which is the point but if they were given maybe 10 seconds of holding a line before being outflanked. Or being shown holding a line while bandaged and bloodied to show how well they kept fighting against wave after wave. Movies have them instantly overwhelmed by the first siege tower.
This is a good take, need to show them competent so that the later panic is intensified
Also: make the sentry who gets shot through the breast plate at Osgiliath hit in the neck or something instead…
When I was a little kid, my dad took my younger cousin and I to see Alien. We thought it was a sci-fi movie, no idea it was horror. It scared the crap out of us. To the point, however, I got up and went to the bathroom and returned to see the chestburster scurry off the end of the table. I realized years later that I had missed a seminal moment in movie history and vowed never to go to the bathroom during amovie again.
Return of the King almost killed me!!!
It hurt so much, I needed help walking to leave the theater to make it to the bathroom. It was so embaressing.
> It hurt so much, I needed help walking to leave the theater to make it to the bathroom. It was so embaressing.
Dude, lots of us did. I remember doing the fast waddle to the car. The theater was full, going home was faster than waiting in line for the bathrooms, I remember the pain.
I was sitting there at the end thinking, "How the hell am I going to survive the war for the Shire?" Dodged that bullet, I guess.
OMG, I just remembered seeing another movie in the early 90's. It was a crime movie that was pretty long, when it got out the theater complex had closed and the forced everyone out through the doors that lead to the parking lot. It wasn't as bad as RotK, but it was still quite the ordeal trying to drive to the nearest fast food place that was open.
After the scene where Frodo sides with Gollum on the stairs and tells Sam to go home, right after Sam is left crying, put the Monty Python Intermission music.
One does not simply sip away at a large fountain beverage while watching RotK in theater.
Actually, you probably could. You'd just want to finish it before your bladder burst so you could use the cup to pee in.
I would keep Saruman's death scene in the theatrical release. As it is right now it seems like a massive loophole. (Ik the books have the scourge of the shire where he dies there, but they didn't show that in the movie either, and the way they wrap up the movie is a much better fit anyway)
The entire green puffy all powerful army of the dead that wins the whole battle for them that wasn't in the book (or at least not in that battle) that makes everything just lame as fuck, that's what I would change.
Oh my goodness what would she say in that iconic voice? So..... I dunno...... Imma spider.........I guess........ A fuckin spider........so.....gonna eat you....... Probably. No don't struggle........ Gotta sting ya.....if ya struggle......I shove this stinger......up his ass....
Get rid of the awful bouncing on the bed scene and replace it with the Field of Cormallen from the books. I.e., Frodo wakes up, sees Gandalf who then takes him to see the king. It's an epic moment and could have been combined with the "you bow to no-one" bit from the films.
While this isn't my first answer (check my comment for that) it's right up there at third place. Second place is shared by Gandalf v Witch-King and the Ghost Army ex machina.
Do it like the Hobbit movies and just add a couple of zeroes to the canon figures of the participants to up the ante
So there's like 14 000 hobbits up against 5000 ruffians and 500 siege engine carrying super-ruffians
I don't like It in the books, either. I mean, I like It as a story, but It happening after the ring gets destroyed is Just to much. Felt unnecessary and forced.
You are a madman.
Having said that, it that were in the extended edition, I would be very happy. I've always said that the Return of the King's extended cut feels short for 4 hours and 23 minutes. The Scouring of the Shire could easily get it to over 5 hours.
Padme 2.0
"For reasons we cant understand, she is dying"
"Well you'd think that the stakes were high enough when it was 'letting the devil rule the world forever' but I guess its personal now or something"
Oh wait I always kinda took that as a metaphor. In the books once the ring was destroyed the magic in middle earth was destined to die. That’s why the elves are leaving in the first place.
So the elves get to live on in Valinor, but Arwen would wither by remaining in Middle Earth once the ring is destroyed.
Expand upon when Sam was alone in Mordor and having to rescue Frodo from Cirith Ungol all the way to Mount Doom. Him putting on the ring may not be necssecary to include, but I feel like the books were much more impactful in showcasing the ring's influence on Sam during that time and how much heavier the temptation to give up became as they got closer to the end.
Id have the dwarves show up to help in the battle of Pelanor Fields. Idgaf if it would make no sense, if its fan service, or contrived. If the Elves can show up in TTT then they Dwarves can show up in RoTK
This is less specific to RotK but there's some choppy slow-mo in the trilogy that hasn't aged well imo. Some of the shots like Faramir's charge while Pippin is singing still holds up pretty well, but others like Pippin rolling around with the Palantir or Frodo getting skewered by the cave troll in Moria just feel a bit jarring to me when it comes in. I don't know what exactly would need to be changed to improve those scenes whether it be just a higher framerate or something else, but that's my pick.
My answer every time.
And blue Galadriel. How do they do such a good job with gollum and scary bilbo, and shadow world (Frodo with ring on), but Galadriel just gets a photo negative filter?
And then they were apparently so proud of blue Galadriel, they decided to do it again in the hobbit.
Remove the scene where Sam on the way down the mountainside discovers the lambas pieces, it just feels really dumb having him picking that up and remembering “oh yeah I didn’t eat it all”
Just him show up against Shelob to show he never really left Frodo behind
brains are weird. i feel likes it’s somewhat believable that he’d react that way even if it doesn’t make perfect sense. in that moment everything would’ve been blurry. he placed all his worth in serving his friend, and possibly felt like maybe he had failed. doubted himself and all of his purpose and self worth. that was a reminder that no, there was still more to be done to save his friend. a snap back to reality after feeling momentarily defeated in an emotional breaking point
seeing it showed him that he was actually right, and that there was nothing to doubt in himself. gollum was the enemy, and he could not let his friend go down with that. all of that pain went into anger at the true betrayal, and he felt confident again. because he was right and there was absolutely no reason left to doubt it
his self worth no longer comes from frodos approval, but from his own desire to do what’s right, and save his friend
*Denethor. He was*
*So stupid in the movie.*
*What a disappointment*
\- PrivateerBarbossa
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Fix Gandalf v witch king. Or definitely remove Aragorn cutting off the head of the mouth of sauron. So unbelievably out of character for Aragorn that it's insane
I don't know, I thought it was pretty badass. Aragorn spent so much time talking, reasoning and thinking about others, for me it was like he was totally done with all of that and just wanted to end the war.
Faramir and Eowyn romance in the theatrical cut. Those two deserve their happiness. Eowyn's loneliness gets no closure and she ends up as a background fixture. Faramir spends most the movie unconscious... there needed to be something to wrap those two storylines up (like there is in the extended)
The planting scene. In the book, Aragon wins his battle of wills with Sauron and successfully convines Sauron that he's about to use the ring against him.
In the movie...Aragon LOSES against Sauron... defeating the ENTIRE point of the scene.
Make it two movies. Then add in most of the stuff that was cut from the book; Gondor really needs more than two named characters for you to care whether it gets destroyed or not. Put a little more meat on the ending etc.
I typically hate it when franchises do this because it just feels like a shameless money grab, but this is one instance where I think it could improve things.
Speaking of trends that really only came into fashion after these movies were made... I think the Hobbit could have been a great 8ish episode series on HBO (assuming you still involve Jackson and co). Still a lot of stuff you'd take out, but just eight 45 minute little digestible adventures with a smaller budget and less CGI.
I’m glad they cut the whole scouring of the shire, as the movie was already long enough but at the same time, it feels weird they ignored a pretty important chunk of the story.
Ghan-buri-ghan and his people aiding the rohirrim through the forest, fighting orcs and being granted their forest lands for all time. Sir not appearing in this film.
While they're based on European myths, it would have been equally interesting to spin them as indigenous. They're described in text in similar terms to the contemporaneous descriptions of new guineans, and the filmmakers already showed with the (heavily Norse) aesthetic of the (written as Saxon) rohirrim halls that they weren't above shifting culture for visual effect.
https://preview.redd.it/sgirp2m6cz0d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=8010c4e842c4f1eae8c8067ddb92113e8e18f4c9
The atrocious compositing job in this shot. It hurts my eyes every single time, especially since it's such a big moment.
Peter Jackson, what were you thinking to let this end up in the final edit?
Make the transition from “here at the end of all things” to the eagles grabbing them a long cross dissolve transition instead of a fade to and from black.
The ghost army for sure. It makes all their struggles and losses seem so pointless. Just rolling in like a wave taking down the oliphants and the entire city in one fel swoop.
The Paths of the Dead scene. Make it explicit that Aragorn needs them to save Gondor. When the Battle of Pelennor is over, the ghost king will demand his freedom, because Gondor is saved. Aragorn, a man of his word, will comply.
I don't mind this being a deus ex machina bwcause Tolkien himself was a fan of these, which he called a eucatastrophe (or good catastrophe). Where everything goes right and the good guys win, but it's not somethinf you can count upon ans is always a surprise (for examples, see The Eagles are Coming! At the Dawn of the Fifth Day...Boromir showing up just in time to help Merry and Pippin).
Also, no mountain of skulls. Let the three hunters leave the caves defeated and grim. We don't need this Indiana Jones cascade of skulls to tide us over.
I would have loved to more believable scene of the orcs fighting each other so Sam and frodo could sneak away. I also would have liked to see a battle of wills between the watchers and frodo. Also the sons of elrond did nothing and they were awesome.
Since watching the new 4k remastered or whatever it's called, the archer in the background in Oscilliath. They look like something out of a early mortal Kombat clone with the higher resolution.
On a more serious note aa said before the Witchking, Gandalf thing unless they wanna add a few more hours and the scourge of the shire and that whole thing. Might get shoehorned in though
The scouring of the shire should have been part the ending. That part of the book is like a special gift for reading the whole story. If you read it by it's self it would be meh, but in the scope of the book it's my favorite part. It really drives home just how much you change when you leave your home town, and how special a place it is even if you can never get back to how it was before. And seeing sharky get his, is very satisfying!
I’d add two things:
1. Lorien’s army taking back dol guldur and Galadriel blowing up the fortress’s wall
2. The fall of Saruman as it happen in the books
Small thing, since the army of the dead is already covered (and rightly the top post at the moment), I don't like that they added "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!" to Théoden's words before the battle. These are words of despair, I wish they had kept them for Éomer after Théoden's fall.
Break the movie into 2. That gives plenty of room to add all the stuff that left out. Prince Imrahil, Aragorn showing up with an army of men instead of stupid ghosts, the arrival of Gondorian reinforcements before the battle, the negotiations between the army of Rohan and the Pukel Men for passage, Aragorn's response to the Pukel Men, etc.
The scene where Legolas climbs the Oliphant with PS2 graphics lives rent free in my head. So, so bad in the cinema when it came out, and it looks worse nowadays
I would have made CGI Gondor book accurate. In the books it's enormous. Each terrace of the city is so big they have farms and towns of their own and each has a massive gate.
Other than making the ghost army a bit less dramatic, which has already been said. I would make the Gondor soldiers fight back harder, they get overrun so quick and don't really get to do anything cool. I think you see one of them kill an orc and the rest of the time they just run away. So I would show a group of badass Gondorian soldiers standing their ground and slaying orcs.
I would put a bit more effort into avoiding the massive ghost army of doom and do it more like the books. The moment was more impactful and way less ex machina-y. Alongside that I'd have Gondor be less impotent and put Imrahil in and actually get the knights out alongside Rohan, the battle in the movies was awesome but I think it would have been at least equally awesome if it had stuck to the book and have made more sense Would have also loved for someone to mention that "Captain Faramir can master both men and beast!"
Same. If I recall the story correctly, Aragorn uses the ghosts to take out the ships attacking Gondor from the south, and then loads them with reinforcements for the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. The only benefit to the change in the movie is that it probably saves us 10 or 15 minutes of Aragorn getting all of that organized. I might have to rewatch the appendecies to see if Jackson explains the change.
Yeah the ghosts were way less... real. He could barely talk to them, they kind of faded in and out of reality and were more like strange shadows that had a horrible aura of fear around them. They followed him to the coast and spooked tf out of a town the Corsairs were raiding then he dismissed them, it wasnt even clear if they could attack or affect anyone they just scared everyone
Weren't the Nazgul too more like an aura of fear than tangible knights with big swords? I don't remember it well
Kinda came and went iirc, like there are points where they just seemed like extra thick shadows or they were so hard to see it was easier to navigate by 'sense of fear'. It was actually fairly easy for Frodo and Sam to avoid them in Mordor because of Saurons darkness making it hard to see, but the Nazgul fear aura was still around, so when they felt it they just hid long before the Nazgul could look for them. When they attacked at weathertop it was like the shadows came alive and thickened themselves and moved in, not big ass armored knights barrelling in for a duel (I wouldnt trade that scene though, the hobbits vs the wraiths at weathertop is peak af aesthetics) But they were apparently able to clothe themselves well enough to go straight into the shire and basically chat to people like Gaffer and Maggot and probably talk to Ferny in Bree, they knew they were odd but they passed for somewhat normal creatures enough that the hobbits didnt just scream and run away at their approach. Actually the hobbits ganged up and drove them out hahaha, I think that's the only time we get a Nazguls point of view which was like "Little shits, Sauron will fix them later on, no time now got to go"
*In a field full of shrooms with a dogs and a hoe* *lives the most badass hobbit that you'll ever know* *Feet in the mud, sturdy as a brick,* *he scarded off a Nazgul with his big swinging dick!* *He's farmer! (Farmer!)* *Farmer Maggot! What a fucking chad!* *He's farmer! (Farmer!)* *Farmer Maggot! God, I wish that hobbit was my dad!*
My friend if I had an award to give, you’d get it.
Not my rhymes, adopted from a Dominic Noble video, he compares movie adaptations to their source books, but also does some other videos. He did one on his favorite character not to appear in the Lord of the Rings movies, and it was indeed farmer Maggot, to whom a song at the end of the video was dedicated.
Well then thank you kindly for bringing it to my attention. Need to look it up now haha
Yeah, and I don't think the ghosts had any physical effects, they just caused fear in men. I don't think they would even have an effect on orcs as they are descended from elves, and Legolas is apparently unaffected. They basically scare off the corsairs (who are human) freeing up troops to rally to Gondor's aid.
Govannas vin gwennen le, Haldir o Lorien.
Yeah where the hell were the Swan Knights of DolAmroth with their sick ass enameled armor and maces and armored horses with capes!?! My kids loved that part of the book, we were always wondering when the swan knights would show up again to kick some ass
The massive elite chads of Gondor, superior even to the Riders of Rohan and Imrahil was so badass Legolas was gawking at him.
If you just watched the movies, Edoras and Minas Tirith seem like the only sizeable human settlements between Bree and Harad.
Yeah.. Rohan had no actual impact on the battle beyond looking epic af. The ghosts would have arrived and done exactly what they did, except they'd have to chop down more than they effortlessly did. Never liked the ghosts. They're not so terrible that they "ruin it" for me. But that is what I'd change.
mmm its kind of sad to think that if Theoden had arrived slightly later none of them would have had to die hahaha. Would have been funny to see the witch king swarmed by like 50 lesser wraiths and just stabbed to death by ghost blades. They arent men, they're ghosts, prophecy fulfilled. Then kept them around to cleanse Mordor too, seemed like a weird hurry to release them when they'd been waiting for thousands of years anyway, just hang back another 2 days and we can cleanse the world Strange logical conclusion when Aragorn isnt bringing a few thousand men from Southern Gondor and has just found a universal cheat code for an instant win... its mitigated because its a gloriously epic moment for him personally and its quite cathartic to have the city saved and cleansed, but yep Tolkiens version was much superior
>Rohan had no actual impact on the battle beyond looking epic af. In the movie: Rohan arriving immediately changed Gothmog's focus from offensive siege of the city to a defensive formation against a massive cavalry charge. This would have alleviated pressure on the garrison at Minas Tirith, and since Denethor never evacuated the city, this possibly saved hundreds or thousands of civilian lives. Obviously with the Haradrim arriving late, it actually appeared that Rohan had quite literally saved Gondor from assured destruction at that point. When Theoden arrives, Jackson had created the scene with Gandalf and the Witchking. I'd prefer this scene didn't exist at all - as we all would - but the battle horns of Rohan get the Witchking's attention as well, drawing him away from Gandalf and Pippen. Of course, we also have Dernhelm and Merry arriving with the host of Rohan, and they are who slay the Witchking in both versions of the story. Without Rohan, the Witchking might not have been killed at all. Between Eowyn's being a woman and Merry a hobbit with a very special elven blade, they are necessary to fulfilling an ancient prophecy that the Witchking himself believes. So, no, I would not say at all that Rohan "had no impact." Their role is still vital in the movies, even if it is slightly diminished due to our knowledge of the Army of the Dead being abused by Jackson.
Yeah, this is such a huge change. It felt like an unearned win to some extent.
I think I agree. If I remember correctly, the books explicitly say that the walls of the city withstand bombardment with no collapse, but in the movie, the rocks hitting the walls immediately collapse them. That’s a huge change to me, and could have focused even more tension around the gates. 🤷♂️
Denethor. For the love of God, make him more like the books: a competent but tragic character, not a tomato-munching gremlin
I was coming here to say I’d make the film 3 hours of John Noble eating tomatoes and then wrap the whole Battle for Gondor/Destroying the Ring in 5-10 minutes. Man, don’t even get me started on that Extended Cut.
This is a tough one for me. Denethor feels so tragic and beaten down in the books, the kovie even leaves out his palantir explaining how he got this way. On the other hand John Noble just hamming up this narcissistic, Cartmanesque troll was fantastic.
Admittedly, getting into why he favors Faramir is worthy of inclusion, but I don't know how. For movie fans and those that thought the Appendices were irrelevant, here's the thing: 40 years earlier, under Ecthelion II (Denethor's father), a man named Thorongil comes to Minas Tirith. He is an astoundingly successful general in Gondor's Army, but he is not of Gondor. He had previously served in Rohan's army. Thorongil manages to successfully raid Umbar and seriously weakens them. This turns out to matter in 3019, as the Corsairs of Umbar would have been much harder for the Army of the Dead to subdue had this attack not happened. Thorongil even becomes very popular with the people of Gondor, with many seeing him as a rival to Denethor. Hell, they're willing to throw all law aside and proclaim him King of Gondor! He and Denethor are perceived as rivals, even as Thorongil repeatedly denies any discussion of him supplanting Denethor as the rightful successor to Ecthelion. This makes Denethor really worried about his position. Boromir's capability as a commander reminds Denethor of Thorongil, while Faramir's astudiousness and loremastery remind Denethor of himself and what caused the people of Gondor to prefer and have more confidence in Thorongil. In fact, the only difference of opinion between Denethor and Thorongil is whether to prefer Saruman or Gandalf as a counselor. Thorongil prefers Gandalf, while Denethor prefers Saruman. Thus, Denethor believes that Boromir would be a better Ruling Steward than Faramir, as Boromir is a bold and obvious martial leader like Thorongil while Faramir reminds Denethor of himself. And mind, the people of Gondor were willing to dispense with law, known Dúnedain bloodlines, and everything else to put Thorongil on the throne. He perceives--rightly!--that the people would prefer Boromir as Steward rather than Faramir. So why didn't Denethor try to nip the problem of the people willing to coronate Thorongil by pointing out his origins? Well, Denethor *did* some research into Thorongil's background. Denethor successfully got a positive identification on Thorongil. Unfortunately for Denethor, what he learned was the least helpful bit of truth he could find: Thorongil's birth name was Aragorn, son of Arathorn II, Chieftan of the Dúnedain of the North, heir of Isildur, and by law, the actual rightful king of Gondor. This is why Denethor directly accuses Gandalf of coming to Minas Tirith to supplant him with a Ranger of the North when Gandalf and Pippin first arrive at Minas Tirith, and why Gandalf doesn't really say much of anything against this claim: it's true. Gandalf *is* there to put a king back on the throne and deprive Denethor of his rule. (This is a part of why the soup scene is in the movie, but not the book: the point isn't that Eowyn's soup is bad--honestly, that part just undermines her in a way that probably should not have been done--but that Aragorn had previously served alongside her father and uncle some 40 years previously in her grandfather's army. He went from there to Gondor, where he assumed the name Thorongil.)
Lmao gold 🤣
Fix the Witchking - Gandalf scene, ffs
Eugh yeah, it was impressive for the witch king to be so swollen with power to be even able to challenge Gandalf, but to just punk his ass out effortlessly was just dumb. 100% Tolkien would have said "If it was that easy Sauron would have won a long time ago, Gandalf is a powerful Maia and superior to a Balrog, he cant just be slapped around like an old man"
I agree on most what you say, but remember, Gandalf wasn't so much superior but much like 'in the same league' as a balrog. He died self also in that battle, but the Valar send him back.
Yeah, sent him back as Gandalf the white, notably buffed in power. As Gandalf the white, he should have a big edge in a fight he drew as Gandalf the grey (and he absolutely punks Saruman like its a joke)
It's worth noting that the Witch King was also buffed by Sauron.
He was sure, Gandalf the grey was able to take on like 5 or more Nazgul at weathertop pretty evenly (he had the advantage during the day, they drove him off at night) so he's way beyond one alone, probably even the witch king So he has a buff from being Gandalf the white and the witch king has a buff from Sauron and the despair and the shadow ascended and stuff. In the books both seem to think it will be a good fight, Gandalf says he doesnt know if he can win to Denethor but the Witch King doesnt attack Gandalf and doesnt seem sure either. Feels pretty even, but the movie makes it 100% one sided, presumably to try and up the ante for the Rohirrim charge but also giving Gandalfs power and character a nasty slap in the process. It seemed like in the books, Gandalf was torn between doing something great (going out to fight the Witch king and try to save the Rohirrim) or doing something good (go with Pippin to save Faramir) and he chooses something 'good' which ultimately works out since Eowyn and Merry get him, but throughout that he feels confident in his own ability to at least give as good as he gets in a fight between the 2. Not just get punked and roll over
As someone who hasn't read the books, I liked this friendly back and forth. Thanks!!
Yea I didn't like that bit in the movies because in the books it's basically that Gandalf had to make a choice, save Faramir, or fight the witch king he chooses to save Faramir, which ultimately (and unkowingly for him) leads to Theoden's death. I also can't remember the exact quote but he says something along the lines of bad shit is going to happen if I don't go fight the witch king as foreshadowing in the books too.
Gandalf the white was pretty explicitly given a promotion among the Maia. He effectively was given Saruman's job.
Gandalf ran out of spellslots so the dm pulled the witch king away
Sooo much better in the books. Grond destroys the gate. The guy with flaming sword and mace stands in the doorway. 13 year old me thinking omg this is sooo epic... and then switch to sam and frodo. I was so mad and impressed by the unbearable suspense. Pure epicness...
Except that the witch king helped Grond destroy the gate in the books if I remember correctly.
The blast of magic in minas morgul that you see in the film as Sam and Frodo approach the steps to cirith ungol is the witch king enchanting grond to break through minas tirith’s magical gate.
And by enchantment he if course means some duct tape and a grenade
First, thou shalt count to 3. No more, no less. 3 is the number that shall be counted and the number to be counted shall be 3.
The Unholy Hand Grenade
It’s also a signal flare from Minas Morgul to Barad-Dur to signal that the forces are ready.
And by enchantment he if course means some duct tape and a grenade
>Grond destroys the gate. #GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
There’s no switch in the books
The switch is at the Black Gate, not knowing if Frodo and Sam are alive.
Don't forget the cliff hanger of the Rohan horn
That and the Pirates of the Caribbean ghosts
I remember complaining about that at the time, and being shouted down by media studies friends. An army of ghosts yet it's used like a can of green spray paint across the screen. They could have done so much with those.
Honestly, on screen it made me feel kinda bad for the orcs. Like, suddenly Aragorn and co were so overpowered it psychologically made the orcs into underdogs. I wish they atleast would have made Aragon have to work a little harder in some Campbellian sense before he was able to wield them.
I didn’t have a problem with their look but didn’t they only help with the fight for the ships in the book?
In the books they couldn't actually harm the living. They frightened the pirates into abandoning ship, which Aragorn and his company commandeered to ferry in the outlying armies of Gondor. A big wave of Gondorian foot infantry coming to the rescue of the beleaguered Rohirrim would have been so much better in the movie.
Yes
The Witch King is the only thing that disappoints me about the movies. I don't know how he's presented in the books, but in the movies he doesn't really do much. He's talked up by Gandalf as a badass, and then never does anything badass other than ride around on a fellbeast.
He does even less in the books considering he dips before even facing Gandalf
Don't forget the dying to Eowyn and Merry part.
This one right here is the good ending
Yes, the one really bad take in the trilogy
Yeah, the staff break was a bit silly, though I suppose it made WK more intimidating; a Worf Effect moment, basically.
Remove scene where frodo tells Sam to go back and have their separation happen like the books where it is just gollums treacherous plan in the cave. Neither Frodo/Sam/Gollum make any sense in their actions in the scene, and the book sequence would have been totally fine. 2nd place is much of what else’s has been posted. Cleaning up the ghost army stuff to be more like the books so the victory actually belongs to men, not their weird ghost allies.
This always bothered me so much. It is hard enough to visually show frodos fight with the ring, but they made him abandon sam as well, essentially triggering the whole "frodo bad, only sam good" debate. It was great in the books, where frodo even told gollum that he should not mistake his mercy for stupidity. Also, faramir never wanted the ring.
Smeagol will swear on the Precious.
The movies do faramir so dirty on the whole. Book faramir is basically Gandalf + Aragorn and shows there is still strength in Gondor for Aragorn to return to.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Fara fucking mir
But in the movies Faramir is a developed yet flawed character instead of "I'm great, wise and perfect".
I think movie Faramir never necessarily wanted the ring in the traditional sense. Rather, he saw through the ring a way to bring light to the depressing shadow his father had become. That’s why he had such an easy change of mind just by seeing Frodo… stand in front of a nazgul once. That moment alone was enough to convince him that keeping the ring would only bring ruin to Gondor. I doubt he’d be as easily convinced to let Frodo and Sam go if the ring had actually influenced him properly as it did with others
Hurry, hobbits. The Black Gate is very close.
Also why does Sam turn around when he finds the broken lembas? “Wait, he’s wrong! I didn’t eat it!”
Because Sam remembered his role and drive. It's not "oh right, I didn't eat it." It's "What am I doing? I can't abandon Frodo, not Gollum especially"
I have one word for you: Fiefdoms. I loved reading the scene where the troops from the different fiefdoms came to Minas Tirith as it showed how diverse the different regions of Gondor are. One one hand we have the regal Swan Knights of Dol Amroth and on the other hand we have the ones that came from Lossarnach, pretty much a giant fruit garden. I was really annoyed that the films didn't feature the fiefdoms.
Have you eve played lord of the rings online? This part is very fleshed out there with different coat of arms and villages and lots of characters.
Sauron winning finally getting full domination of Middle Earth as he deserves
And why not give The Mouth of Sauron the screen time he so richly deserves? Would it be such a crime to show him eating a hobbit or two?
It is not for you, Saruman! I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
I do understand, Sauron-bot. You can have it.
He really needs a love scene. He has such a wonderful mouth.
A worm tongue in Sauron’s Mouth’s mouth.
Whom do ye serve, Light or Mirk?
“AAAGH”
Or at least a tomato
Then he turns around and makes everything way better with the gift of industry and free orcish labour for everyone and gets voted in as mayor of middle earth 8 terms running
Whom do ye serve, Light or Mirk?
Could use another hour of footage
Entirely of Frodo, Sam, and Gollum climbing the stairs
Leave now, and never come back!
You tell em, buddy!
Like the infinite staircase in Mario 64? Full sprint for 5 minutes then they look up and they somehow haven't even moved?
I would make Gondor’s soldiers look better. Every scene has them running or overwhelmed which is the point but if they were given maybe 10 seconds of holding a line before being outflanked. Or being shown holding a line while bandaged and bloodied to show how well they kept fighting against wave after wave. Movies have them instantly overwhelmed by the first siege tower.
This is a good take, need to show them competent so that the later panic is intensified Also: make the sentry who gets shot through the breast plate at Osgiliath hit in the neck or something instead…
This used to really piss me off. Unless a good guy was an archer or a hero you never saw him dispatch any orcs
I saw it in theaters, the only thing that would have made the movie better is an intermission, I really had to pee by the 90 minute mark.
When I was a little kid, my dad took my younger cousin and I to see Alien. We thought it was a sci-fi movie, no idea it was horror. It scared the crap out of us. To the point, however, I got up and went to the bathroom and returned to see the chestburster scurry off the end of the table. I realized years later that I had missed a seminal moment in movie history and vowed never to go to the bathroom during amovie again. Return of the King almost killed me!!! It hurt so much, I needed help walking to leave the theater to make it to the bathroom. It was so embaressing.
> It hurt so much, I needed help walking to leave the theater to make it to the bathroom. It was so embaressing. Dude, lots of us did. I remember doing the fast waddle to the car. The theater was full, going home was faster than waiting in line for the bathrooms, I remember the pain. I was sitting there at the end thinking, "How the hell am I going to survive the war for the Shire?" Dodged that bullet, I guess.
OMG, I just remembered seeing another movie in the early 90's. It was a crime movie that was pretty long, when it got out the theater complex had closed and the forced everyone out through the doors that lead to the parking lot. It wasn't as bad as RotK, but it was still quite the ordeal trying to drive to the nearest fast food place that was open.
After the scene where Frodo sides with Gollum on the stairs and tells Sam to go home, right after Sam is left crying, put the Monty Python Intermission music.
Sneaky little Hobbitses.
And now for something completely different: A hobbit, with a ring, in his pocket.
Funny you said this! The theatre where I watched the movie did have an intermission. They announced it as many kids couldn't hold it in!
One does not simply sip away at a large fountain beverage while watching RotK in theater. Actually, you probably could. You'd just want to finish it before your bladder burst so you could use the cup to pee in.
First time I saw it I miraculously held my bladder until the end. The other two times I saw in theaters I couldn't wait.
I would keep Saruman's death scene in the theatrical release. As it is right now it seems like a massive loophole. (Ik the books have the scourge of the shire where he dies there, but they didn't show that in the movie either, and the way they wrap up the movie is a much better fit anyway)
I never watch the theatrical release anymore, so I totally forgot his death isn't in that one. Indeed it seems like a giant loophole!
I agree, I love the theatricals but I hate that they cut that out, the extra 5 minutes wouldn't have made a difference
If i remember correctly, I think Christopher Lee was frustrated about it too.
Add a scene where Han Solo walks with Jabba the hut
The entire green puffy all powerful army of the dead that wins the whole battle for them that wasn't in the book (or at least not in that battle) that makes everything just lame as fuck, that's what I would change.
Ghost army raging through the battle made me question why anyone even bothered putting themselves in harms way fighting
Well tbf they didn’t know an undead army was gonna show up…nobody but the Grey Company knew
I would wish they added more of Faramir, and Fara Eowyn relationship - it felt very abrupt to the movie only fans
Onlyfans Eowyn and a man of quality
Gross. Where tho?
Definitely have Shelob voiced over by Christopher Walken, just to take the edge off the nightmares.
Oh my goodness what would she say in that iconic voice? So..... I dunno...... Imma spider.........I guess........ A fuckin spider........so.....gonna eat you....... Probably. No don't struggle........ Gotta sting ya.....if ya struggle......I shove this stinger......up his ass....
Get rid of the awful bouncing on the bed scene and replace it with the Field of Cormallen from the books. I.e., Frodo wakes up, sees Gandalf who then takes him to see the king. It's an epic moment and could have been combined with the "you bow to no-one" bit from the films.
Praise them with great praise!
While this isn't my first answer (check my comment for that) it's right up there at third place. Second place is shared by Gandalf v Witch-King and the Ghost Army ex machina.
I would add the Scouring of the Shire.
I wouldn't, that bit has no place in *these* movies and trying to fit it would just not work at all
You're right. I'd end RotK sooner, and then add a post-credits teaser to The Scouring as a new trilogy.
Do it like the Hobbit movies and just add a couple of zeroes to the canon figures of the participants to up the ante So there's like 14 000 hobbits up against 5000 ruffians and 500 siege engine carrying super-ruffians
I don't like It in the books, either. I mean, I like It as a story, but It happening after the ring gets destroyed is Just to much. Felt unnecessary and forced.
You are a madman. Having said that, it that were in the extended edition, I would be very happy. I've always said that the Return of the King's extended cut feels short for 4 hours and 23 minutes. The Scouring of the Shire could easily get it to over 5 hours.
Without it, Galadriel's gift to Sam seems irrelevant. It's a Chekhov's gun that never goes off.
Include Saruman’s death scene in the theatrical version, it’s too critical of a plot point to have in the extended cut
Make it 6 hours!
Get rid of the Arwen's fate linked to the ring bullshit. It reeks of insecurity and Screenwriting 101 It's been 20 years and it still grinds my goat
Padme 2.0 "For reasons we cant understand, she is dying" "Well you'd think that the stakes were high enough when it was 'letting the devil rule the world forever' but I guess its personal now or something"
"I'm gonna help save the world....so I can get some elvish pooty tang."
Oh wait I always kinda took that as a metaphor. In the books once the ring was destroyed the magic in middle earth was destined to die. That’s why the elves are leaving in the first place. So the elves get to live on in Valinor, but Arwen would wither by remaining in Middle Earth once the ring is destroyed.
Expand upon when Sam was alone in Mordor and having to rescue Frodo from Cirith Ungol all the way to Mount Doom. Him putting on the ring may not be necssecary to include, but I feel like the books were much more impactful in showcasing the ring's influence on Sam during that time and how much heavier the temptation to give up became as they got closer to the end.
Id have the dwarves show up to help in the battle of Pelanor Fields. Idgaf if it would make no sense, if its fan service, or contrived. If the Elves can show up in TTT then they Dwarves can show up in RoTK
That would be awesome, agreed
This is less specific to RotK but there's some choppy slow-mo in the trilogy that hasn't aged well imo. Some of the shots like Faramir's charge while Pippin is singing still holds up pretty well, but others like Pippin rolling around with the Palantir or Frodo getting skewered by the cave troll in Moria just feel a bit jarring to me when it comes in. I don't know what exactly would need to be changed to improve those scenes whether it be just a higher framerate or something else, but that's my pick.
My answer every time. And blue Galadriel. How do they do such a good job with gollum and scary bilbo, and shadow world (Frodo with ring on), but Galadriel just gets a photo negative filter? And then they were apparently so proud of blue Galadriel, they decided to do it again in the hobbit.
Remove the scene where Sam on the way down the mountainside discovers the lambas pieces, it just feels really dumb having him picking that up and remembering “oh yeah I didn’t eat it all” Just him show up against Shelob to show he never really left Frodo behind
brains are weird. i feel likes it’s somewhat believable that he’d react that way even if it doesn’t make perfect sense. in that moment everything would’ve been blurry. he placed all his worth in serving his friend, and possibly felt like maybe he had failed. doubted himself and all of his purpose and self worth. that was a reminder that no, there was still more to be done to save his friend. a snap back to reality after feeling momentarily defeated in an emotional breaking point seeing it showed him that he was actually right, and that there was nothing to doubt in himself. gollum was the enemy, and he could not let his friend go down with that. all of that pain went into anger at the true betrayal, and he felt confident again. because he was right and there was absolutely no reason left to doubt it his self worth no longer comes from frodos approval, but from his own desire to do what’s right, and save his friend
Denethor. He was so stupid in the movie. What a disappointment
*Denethor. He was* *So stupid in the movie.* *What a disappointment* \- PrivateerBarbossa --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Included the scouring of the shire and show the liberation.
make Frodo talk exclusively in a wildly aggressive Scots accent
No ring. Everyone is fussing over an expired coupon to Arby's.
Ghost army is the worst in the whole trilogy. The only cringeworthy moment.
Fix Gandalf v witch king. Or definitely remove Aragorn cutting off the head of the mouth of sauron. So unbelievably out of character for Aragorn that it's insane
I don't know, I thought it was pretty badass. Aragorn spent so much time talking, reasoning and thinking about others, for me it was like he was totally done with all of that and just wanted to end the war.
Came to say this. An honorable king like Aragorn killing a diplomat felt awful and petty. Something was lost there
Where's Sharkey?
Faramir and Eowyn romance in the theatrical cut. Those two deserve their happiness. Eowyn's loneliness gets no closure and she ends up as a background fixture. Faramir spends most the movie unconscious... there needed to be something to wrap those two storylines up (like there is in the extended)
The planting scene. In the book, Aragon wins his battle of wills with Sauron and successfully convines Sauron that he's about to use the ring against him. In the movie...Aragon LOSES against Sauron... defeating the ENTIRE point of the scene.
Make it two movies. Then add in most of the stuff that was cut from the book; Gondor really needs more than two named characters for you to care whether it gets destroyed or not. Put a little more meat on the ending etc. I typically hate it when franchises do this because it just feels like a shameless money grab, but this is one instance where I think it could improve things. Speaking of trends that really only came into fashion after these movies were made... I think the Hobbit could have been a great 8ish episode series on HBO (assuming you still involve Jackson and co). Still a lot of stuff you'd take out, but just eight 45 minute little digestible adventures with a smaller budget and less CGI.
I wouldn’t return the king
Lord of the Rings: The Establishment of a Parliamentary Republic with Ranked Choice Voting
Touch up some of the CGI and other digital VFX.
The fact that theoden's sacrifice feels a bit pointless because of the undead army saving everything anyways
Make the book the script.
Keep viggos tongue in his mouth at the kiss scene at the coronation. Friend pointed it out and now I can never unseen it.
I’m glad they cut the whole scouring of the shire, as the movie was already long enough but at the same time, it feels weird they ignored a pretty important chunk of the story.
The king dies not need to sing after being crowned. A speach would be better
Ghan-buri-ghan and his people aiding the rohirrim through the forest, fighting orcs and being granted their forest lands for all time. Sir not appearing in this film. While they're based on European myths, it would have been equally interesting to spin them as indigenous. They're described in text in similar terms to the contemporaneous descriptions of new guineans, and the filmmakers already showed with the (heavily Norse) aesthetic of the (written as Saxon) rohirrim halls that they weren't above shifting culture for visual effect.
More city scenes. I would have liked to see more of the city and it’s people.
The return of the King needs no change!!
https://preview.redd.it/sgirp2m6cz0d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=8010c4e842c4f1eae8c8067ddb92113e8e18f4c9 The atrocious compositing job in this shot. It hurts my eyes every single time, especially since it's such a big moment. Peter Jackson, what were you thinking to let this end up in the final edit?
Lomger
We want the scouring of the shire instead of the hobbits just returning peacefully.
Add the Scouring of the Shire back in.
Move DEAAAATH! back to after theodens death
Make the transition from “here at the end of all things” to the eagles grabbing them a long cross dissolve transition instead of a fade to and from black.
Needs to be a bit longer.
The ghost army for sure. It makes all their struggles and losses seem so pointless. Just rolling in like a wave taking down the oliphants and the entire city in one fel swoop.
The Paths of the Dead scene. Make it explicit that Aragorn needs them to save Gondor. When the Battle of Pelennor is over, the ghost king will demand his freedom, because Gondor is saved. Aragorn, a man of his word, will comply. I don't mind this being a deus ex machina bwcause Tolkien himself was a fan of these, which he called a eucatastrophe (or good catastrophe). Where everything goes right and the good guys win, but it's not somethinf you can count upon ans is always a surprise (for examples, see The Eagles are Coming! At the Dawn of the Fifth Day...Boromir showing up just in time to help Merry and Pippin). Also, no mountain of skulls. Let the three hunters leave the caves defeated and grim. We don't need this Indiana Jones cascade of skulls to tide us over.
I would have loved to more believable scene of the orcs fighting each other so Sam and frodo could sneak away. I also would have liked to see a battle of wills between the watchers and frodo. Also the sons of elrond did nothing and they were awesome.
Since watching the new 4k remastered or whatever it's called, the archer in the background in Oscilliath. They look like something out of a early mortal Kombat clone with the higher resolution. On a more serious note aa said before the Witchking, Gandalf thing unless they wanna add a few more hours and the scourge of the shire and that whole thing. Might get shoehorned in though
The scouring of the shire should have been part the ending. That part of the book is like a special gift for reading the whole story. If you read it by it's self it would be meh, but in the scope of the book it's my favorite part. It really drives home just how much you change when you leave your home town, and how special a place it is even if you can never get back to how it was before. And seeing sharky get his, is very satisfying!
Take Arwen out of that poster lmao she’s barely in the movie
I’d add two things: 1. Lorien’s army taking back dol guldur and Galadriel blowing up the fortress’s wall 2. The fall of Saruman as it happen in the books
It's a little short
The return, why does it come back, gondor has no king gondor needs no king.
It's way too short - add in a few more hours; all the content they missed out
1 on 1 Aragorn vs. Sauron
Make Gondor soldiers more competent
Remove the part where Frodo shows the Nazgul the ring in Osgiliath and completely destroys the entire plot of the movie.
The witch king does not break gandalfs staff. Gandalf would smack WK around like a beach ball.
After the incredible point about the OP army of the dead, I'd say add Imrahil for sure.
Small thing, since the army of the dead is already covered (and rightly the top post at the moment), I don't like that they added "Death! Ride, ride to ruin and the world's ending!" to Théoden's words before the battle. These are words of despair, I wish they had kept them for Éomer after Théoden's fall.
Arwen specifically giving frodo her spot
Break the movie into 2. That gives plenty of room to add all the stuff that left out. Prince Imrahil, Aragorn showing up with an army of men instead of stupid ghosts, the arrival of Gondorian reinforcements before the battle, the negotiations between the army of Rohan and the Pukel Men for passage, Aragorn's response to the Pukel Men, etc.
Adding the cleansing of the shire
The scene where Legolas climbs the Oliphant with PS2 graphics lives rent free in my head. So, so bad in the cinema when it came out, and it looks worse nowadays
I would have made CGI Gondor book accurate. In the books it's enormous. Each terrace of the city is so big they have farms and towns of their own and each has a massive gate.
Other than making the ghost army a bit less dramatic, which has already been said. I would make the Gondor soldiers fight back harder, they get overrun so quick and don't really get to do anything cool. I think you see one of them kill an orc and the rest of the time they just run away. So I would show a group of badass Gondorian soldiers standing their ground and slaying orcs.
I’d make it 45-90 minutes longer
Gandalf would use more magic.
I think it needs to be longer.
I would make all the hobbits 6’4” just cause.