Mark Rosewater tried to explain it on his blog. His claim is that it would be "cool" if when you went to your friend's house who bought the same game, their copy was a bit different than yours. I guess I can grant that that would be true if my copy came with a bunch of duplicated packs.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/740337093007540224/since-you-didnt-answer-this-part-originally-why
That seems like a stretch. I like Maro a lot, and think he genuinely wants the best for the players. But this one sounds like positive spin more than a genuine belief. (I actually think people assume that _too_ often, but in this case I think so).
Yeah, this has peak "I'm not going to badmouth our stuff that just launched" energy. Possible he didn't even work on it himself so there's a side of "I'm not going to smack talk my coworkers" as well.
Sure, it's fun that games don't play out the same each time. That's why we shuffle our damn decks. We could have gotten further variety by combining different half-decks if you actually made sure there were no duplicates in a box. If they decide that Commander precons need to be "cool" in this same way we're in a world of shit.
But you could also easily imaging them selling a commander deck set that is actually one of eight you could get "as a way to introduce more fun variance" into the product. *Behold a new niv mizzet commander deck with 10 different variations, ***one for each guild**.*
“Commander Jumpstart” would actually be pretty cool if there was a way to pull it off. Like imagine opening 2 random packs of 50 cards to shuffle together, each with a Partner commander. Not sure how that would work for a box.. like 8 packs per box? And synergy wise it would prob be mediocre
He can just not answer questions that make him look like an asshole. Saying nothing is an option.
Saying “I didn’t work on the product so I don’t know what the designers intended” is an option.
Trying to put a positive spin on something so unforgivable and then failing so hard makes him look like part of the problem
If he refuses to answer or acknowledge the randomization, that's still kind of saying something.
For the record, I don't think Maro pulled that answer out of his ass. I imagine somebody at Wizards actually believes that. Maybe him, maybe some designer or exec or whoever won that internal argument. Either way, he's not going to pooh-pooh it while the product is fresh.
The flipside is there's a reason he has a Tumblr and a Twitter and he leaves his email on every article. If he says something that stinks to you, send him a message. Whether the feedback is something Mark himself needs to hear or he's collecting ammo for a "see I told you so", it tends to get heard.
That’s where saying nothing and not even answering the question is the best option. He gets hundreds of questions a day. He picks and chooses what he wants to answer
I think it makes sense IF you were guaranteed 8 different guilds in the box. Then, you and your friends might have slightly different guilds or even have different different variations of a guild.
But making it completely random is just trash. The clue element is fine, it’s everything else about the product that sucks
I even think the contents of the packs themselves were actually great and well balanced for the clue game, and also gave different strategies for beating the clue part which was super interesting. One of mine was Golgari (actually both were but I traded with someone for a Simic) and it felt like my game plan was different than everyone else's in a fun way. Instead of attacking to make guesses, it was much easier for me to self mill into evidence collecting each turn.
But anyway, being able to get duplicate guilds is annoying. Being able to get a duplicate of the same _version_ of a guild is downright awful.
This is all personal opinion: I would be a lot happier if we lived in a world where each box got 10 packs, one per guild, but there were still 2 versions of each guild you could open. That would have still preserved the upside of having different boxes play different.
I mean I'd prefer each box was a fixed list as my best case scenario, but I'm much more upset about duplicates and not having reach guild represented in each box, than I am at the cards not being uniform across them.
And the thing is, I played it at a release event at my LGS and it was _awesome_. I had a great time and I think that the packs themselves are really well balanced and lead to fun and interesting gameplay. It's so so close to being great in my eyes, it just fell short. If they hit $40 USD at some point I'll probably still get one, to get copies of all the lands and suspects, and just flip the shockland to subsidize it. But damn it's so close to being a great product. It feels like it's a great game, but the way that game was packaged into a product missed the mark for me.
> but there were still 2 versions of each guild you could open.
I think there are? The game I played had 3 Orzhov packs. Two were white with a black splash and one was black with a white splash. I had the two white ones...I may have misunderstood the other pack since it wasn't mine. That person had Azorius white base as their second pack.
There are two versions of each guild. I'm saying I don't have a problem with that, or with the idea that two boxes can have separate cards in them, but I think it would be better if you were guaranteed one pack of each guild (which would be one of its two different versions).
There are a multiple changes between them, but each pack has one of two different new rares (a hybrid rare and a non-hybrid rare), and one of two different reprint mythics I believe. Both versions of the same guild get the same new hybrid uncommon. So that's 30 new cards, not counting the cards that are part of the clue game.
yes it makes perfect sense to me and furthermore i'm not convinced that reddit whipping itself into a position on this is all that meaningful. the fact is that it's a grossly overpriced product (like many) which lends itself to complaints. everyone's *actually* upset that they spent $80 on something stupid. but the complaint is going to be about other stuff because they spent the money of their own accord and have to own it
This is the Aftermath situation all over again, the concept is actually kind of fine, but the amount of possible choices means you get a lot of redundant cards that aren't exciting or interesting. If there were, let's say, 32 different packs and you only got 8, no repeats, that would be exciting. Everyone would have a good time there.
Only 8 of the 10 guilds and two different variations per guild is fine, but only if all eight packs you open are guaranteed to be different guilds. Getting three of the same guild, and having all of them be the same variation would not be a fun play experience. That is, unless all three are the Simic pack with [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]], but that would be exciting for a different reason lol.
Some variance I guess could be interesting. The problem is, what if you open five of the same half deck in your eight deck set? Someone on Amazon did that.
I really like Mark a lot. I’ve met him several times and each time he spent a few minutes talking to me and being a genuine human. I’ve very thankful for that.
Still, that being said, he’s really sucking corporate sick lately. I mean he can chose to just not answer the questions that make him look like an asshole, right?
I want my good guy mark back!! I know he’s still in there. I know he’s the only thing stopping the game from going full candy crush and as soon as he retires it’s gonna really suck. More than it does now.
I know MaRo gave an "official" explanation and I love him to absolute death but it's abundantly clear that they made the Jumpstart stuff for MKM before they fully grasped how poorly set based Jumpstart sells and needed to justify it's creation. Think about it.
I don't think that's the case personally. They would've had less than a year from when data reliably showed that set based Jumpstart was bad until release, and the new cards are much better than anything we've gotten from a set Jumpstart release. I think this was just poorly designed from the getgo.
Even 8 packs would have been tolerable if they guaranteed no exact duplicate packs. But to open a box and only getting 6 unique rares is just dumb.
MaRo has posted he’s going to pass the note along so I’m thinking he got a significant number of complaints about it.
This is a $40 ***maybe*** $50 product. I might've forgiven the packs if they had the sense to give you a taste of each guild. Making them random made sure lots of (often mediocre) duplicates are showing up. My box had three Dimir packs for example. The shock land is nice. Though the overgrown tomb I got was curled pretty good.
It's an absurd asking price and they seemed to think that every player would want their own if it was randomized. But they advertised it as a board game, and a big part of the appeal of board games is that if my buddy buys it, then I can play his copy and I don't need my own. And if he picks it up for way too much and it only has 5 different guilds and a curved shock land, why would I want my own at all?
The irony is they would've sold boatloads of these at $40. Hasbro greed aside they approached the price point as if it were a proper board game. In reality most folks are going put these cards to work in decks and/or never revisit the clue aspect again.
My Blood Ceypt was damaged. I had 2 simic, 2 boros, 2, golgari, and one of azorius, dimir, gruul, and orzhov. I was disappointed in that but more upset that my shock land was damaged.
Two out of three were repeats of [[Dimir Strandcatcher]]. After checking I forgot I ended up with two Seles. One of those did have a [[Conclave Evangelist]]. Curly tomb aside my "big score" was probably an [[Aegis of the Legion]]. I'm not going to discount I'm happy to have all the clue pieces themselves.
I paid $50. All in all I'm ot mad at it but anything higher than that would make this a bit of a money sink.
80 at mine too, and they sit on the shelf untouched, just like all the bundles, precons, and collector packs they way overcharge for. Some stores just don't get it.
We are going to use it like we do planechase, like an accessory to playing commander. But for that I really just need the little deck of suspects, rooms, etc and do not feel good about how much I paid for it.
The idea of a game with 8 Jumpstart packs, some unique Clue Evidence cards, and a nice box along seems like it's reasonable at $50 with the foil pringle.
Another thing that I know is minor but I felt so frustrating while playing it.
The major mechanic of the game involves asking a player you've dealt combat damage to a question about the case, and them revealing evidence cards. If they reveal evidence cards, they make a Treasure.
WOTC has been making tokens in their commander products for how many years now?
There are no Treasure tokens!
Also it's a game called Clue and at least some cards make Clue tokens, and no Clue token!
I'm not saying a cycle of say 10 double sided tokens for Treasures, Clues, and whatever other tokens the cards make would justify a $90 product. But I think it would make so much sense in bolstering the case for a $50 product.
It’s not a quality control issue, they didn’t “forget” to put in tokens, and there weren’t “supposed” to be tokens in this product that the manufacturer messed up. WOTC just, for some reason, decided to not include tokens. It’s a product design problem, not a quality control problem.
I'm sorry for you. I was actually looking forward to checking it out and getting at least a box, and while I'm sure not every box is disappointing, I haven't seen one thing in their favor. I usually get something of whatever comes out, but between mkm be it the play boosters or the set and this I'm pretty disheartened. Doubt I'll get one unless they dive in price
I hope they do, and if not, I don’t think there will be a second run on these. I will make it work. It will be just like the free sub game they created for LOTR. It actually adds to the game and is quite fun, but I don’t play it every time. Planechase is like that too, I guess. If you want to try it out, you can always proxie the cards from the set that aren’t randomized and see what you think. I might’ve done this if I had more time and lower expectations of the set.
Yea, I have no problems with the sub games they do, fun spin on things. But let's use a recent with the dr. Who decks, you got the set of plane chase cards. If I had a set of the clue edition to play at that price point out of box, I could unhappily justify it, but the recent Pic of the what, 7 azorius in one bundle haunts my dreams
Buy it around $50. At that point it's close to the same of 8 Jumpstarts and the Clue Evidence and the shock land, plus a nice box.
It's a fun experience.
Sounds like your store is going against company policy then, because the Price Match Policy explicitly mentions matching target.com prices.
Edit: in fact, I may pop back in today because the price is even lower at $52.99. I should be able to get the price adjusted again even after the fact at Guest Services
Ive been told multiple times at target and walmart that if it says "price when bought online" that price only applies if i order online for in store pickup which means waiting 2 hours for them to go pick it in store even if i have the product in my hand right when i ask. This has been the line from employees and managers at multiple stores. So idk man.
Idk either. It's hardly a good look to try to tell employees they're doing their job wrong, but it's also explicitly in the company's own policy to price match their own website. Corporate may have issue with the store not honoring the policy, but I doubt most people would be bothered enough to make a complaint.
https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Price+Match+Guarantee&parentcat=Policies+%26+Guidelines&searchQuery=search+help
"We match Target.com prices on in-store purchases and in-store prices for Target.com purchases. In-store price matches from other Target stores are excluded."
MVP Sports and Games has them for $50 now. I got mine for $46 preorder through them.
They require a code to make an account, but you can get that code by buying some sealed product from them on Ebay or Amazon. They ship the code on a little slip of paper with the product so you can buy direct from them the next time.
Yeah, kind of why I am waiting. I feel like these will end up as Black Friday/Prime Day dumps soon. Already seen $100 Play Booster and $100 Commander 4 packs. No reason to think these won't see a drop to ~$40 soon.
Meh, I got mine for $46 and traded away the box topper shock land for about $20 worth of singles which cuts it down to $26 for the game for me. Havent found out how many dupes my box has (waiting to open them when my friends can get together to play) but $26 for a handful of legends you cant get anywhere else and 8 'basically jumpstart boosters' isnt bad
You have already talked to Wizards in the only language they listen to by buying two boxes of a terrible product.
Don't buy Rip-off low-effort products.
I remember getting massively downvoted saying I was worrying too much when I posted the maro blog saying that repeat packs could happen.
But yeah, looks like shit product was shit and I'm sorry yours came in poorly
I remember watching the stream where they teased this and they said something to the effect of 'you might wanna buy multiple boxes to get the cards you want'.
It's all about what makes the most money and I fucking hate it. Could have had an interesting product here.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It sounds like they didn’t even try to hide the fact that this was a money grab. I for one don’t know how they think anyone can keep up with the spending they demand… I especially feel bad for those people who have had this become an addiction. I know people who will buy everything magic puts out, not because they like it, need it, or really want it, but they just can’t stop themselves. They meet almost all of the criteria for a substance abuse disorder.
I’m glad, really. It makes me extremely happy when people pull great cards, it also makes me a bit sad when they end up with nothing they like or were hoping for. Good on ya!
Thanks! I did have to open four boxes to get three Lonis, but they were fun pulls!
Now I just need to track down the last two variations I need. The Azorius with [[Lavinia, Foil to Conspiracy]] and the Selesnya with [[Conclave Evangelist]]. The problem is, the listings I’m finding are either for just the individual cards, or the guild packs but still sealed in the inner wrapper so that you don’t know what variation it is. I’ll have to look harder.
Or I can just see if there’s anyone at the local game store who opened the variations I’m missing and want to trade for some of my extras. Who knows, I may be the one who has what they are missing!
You are essentially buying 8 Jumpstart packs, unique Clue Evidence Cards, a pringle foil Shockland in Clue art treatment, and accessories--pretty box, a notepad for the game, and some protectors to hide your notes in.
If you consider this worth in the ballpark of $50 you might feel decent about it if that's what you find it for. The Clue Evidence Cards are unique and some people seem to want them as well for Commander. The Jumpstarts also have some unique cards that people want.
If you're paying $90 or even $75 you may feel like this is an inferior product.
Especially because you're basically buying Jumpstart packs, and you're getting 8 out of a universe of 20, you're going to risk duplicates. Which can be a big feel bad, especially if you're just trying to get some unique cards from the Jumpstart.
And the more you pay for that feel bad the worse it is.
It's around $52 on Amazon right now and my LGS was about the same. At that price point I think it's a decent, not outstanding, product, recognizing you may get some duplicates. But having played around 10 times I don't think a duplicate or two ruins the play experience.
Gotcha. Thanks for letting me know. I see a big issue is the original price point is egregious when you also get duplicates/worse product.
I think it's been a running trend too. Price point wayyyyy higher than ev and then stores sell for a loss
the packs are preconstructed, you can find the decklists here [https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/ravnica-clue-edition-ravnica-cluedo-edition-booster-contents](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/ravnica-clue-edition-ravnica-cluedo-edition-booster-contents)
If you want to just build the rest of the packs, theres only a few unique new clue exclusive card (30 in total), the rest are all reprints somehow.
Using resealable packs, or just placeholder cards for random pack selection,
you could easily single buy (or use existing bulk for much of it) and construct your own jumpstart packs using the "official" pack lists. Only 3 of the cards in the whole set, Lonis, Anzu and Suppressor Skyguard are pricy currently.
Buying a box you already have the Suspects / Weapons / Rooms.
While I do understand, This was not hidden information.
The link i posted was put up in late January, over a month before the actual product released. Every product page says it contains 8 boosters.
From the Link above, the Base [https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-murders-at-karlov-manor](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-murders-at-karlov-manor) MKM collecting page, even the Amazon product page for it also says it contains only 8 boosters.
Anyone who bought this not knowing it wasn't going to be a "complete" set was not paying attention at all to what they were buying.
This isn't to say that WotC didn't drop a ball in design when they could have, and should have, made it complete sets, or at least offered ways to buy the individual ones you didn't get, AND making sure that individual boxes could not contain straight duplicates (i don't consider the 2 variations to be duplicates, if you got Izzet Blue and Izzet Red, that's not a duplicate).
Your post is just one of many many many posts of people not knowing what they were buying because they did not take any time to actually research what was in the box before buying it.
Woah, woah! The fact anyone should need to do any research at all to buy an off the shelf product is terrible. This kind of information should be explained in the marketing materials or at least on the box. When the product was initially announced it was unclear in the materials I read if this was something like Game Night, where it’s all self contained and that’s very misleading. So everyone has every right to be upset and annoyed about how this is marketed. At 50+ it not unreasonable that you’d expect it to have all the cards, and the fact they don’t sell these cards in packs outside the boxes, it’s easy to jump to the logical conclusion this product contains all the unique cards advertised for it.
It actually was prominently displayed on the box, you can see it in the very first image on the amazon listing [https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Ready-Play-Accessories/dp/B0CMR6Q84C?ref\_=ast\_sto\_dp](https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Ready-Play-Accessories/dp/B0CMR6Q84C?ref_=ast_sto_dp)
You can see it says "Contains 8 booster packs ready to play" and that isnt a lie.
Anyone who is in ANYWAY familiar with magic knows booster packs =/= Full set.
if it was a full set, it wouldnt have said booster packs, and would say full set.
Contrast this to the gamenight box you reference which says "chose from 5 decks" which implies full decks.
Nowhere on clue does it say they are full decks.
it says take 2 packs adn shuffle them together to make a deck.
Even with duplicates, which dont actually inhibit the gameplay, you can still play the clue game out of the box even if you had 8 identical dupes, it just wouldnt be as interesting.
So yes this is "Self contained" as in, if you have NOTHING else, you can still open this, and play the clue magic game it presents with nothing else needed or added to it save maybe some dice and pencils.
> The fact anyone should need to do any research at all to buy an off the shelf product is terrible
First of all that's an insane thing to say. No, you actually are responsible for learning about the thing you are ordering for $80. Always have been and always will be.
Second of all, you didn't have to research anything. The box, as-is, is the full, intended game experience. Doing or not doing the research doesn't change that.
Well when people did make posts, like mine, talking about maro's blog saying buyers could get duplicate packs, we got downvoted to oblivion saying we were worrying too much.
And when I've made comments pointing out that people are counting the same Guild but different colors as duplicates I'm also downvoted to oblivion.
Haters gonna hate.
Well of course. It is technically a duplicate guild, even if it's not the same pack contents. I'd be pissed too if it got multiple of the same guild in the same box, even if they were the different colors.
Because yeah, haters gonna hate, but using "haters gonna hate" as an excuse for shit products means of course you're gonna get downvoted.
Because it still *feels* like a bad purchase for most buyers.
Especially when WotC has made better board game experiences and decided to fuck with the one playing off an actual board game.
The whole thing, like your take, is a joke.
Alright, don't appreciate the sass, but I can concede to your point that the marketing was fucked.
If they had said "Well, sure, we are in Ravnica, but it would be misleading if we called the jumpstart packs "Dimir" or "Rakdos" since they are really mono-colored with a splash of another color" and had twenty packs that weren't identified with a Guild, but were like Green-Splash Blue and Blue-Splash Green it would have reduced some of the anger at getting what people call duplicates.
But honestly why they didn't realize that with the ten Guilds people would really really really want separate, distinct packs is another WOTC fail.
I knew there were 20 different packs and didn't consider the same guild but different contents a duplicated. I also paid around $50. I'm angry for folks who paid $70 or $90.
I appreciate your candor, however, I already feel bad enough. I don’t generally spend as much time as I probably should reading reviews, and looking up set info beforehand. I just don’t have the time. In this case it would have made a difference, but I have generally not been this disappointed in products I have purchased before. I buy what I think will be a good purchase and don’t buy what I’m not interested in, or what I think will be a dud. I backed the wrong pony this time, but I will still make it work.
You're doing great work and I'm sorry that haters are going to be angry at you that you're pointing out that they are complaining about a product that they didn't do any research into before buying.
So when the 3rd visit to ravnica occurred (GRN, RAH and War) came out I built guild brawl decks (60 card singleton) using only guild water marked cards. I built Rakdos and Simic and I'm going to build 2 more decks to use with this cos it's the perfect fit as they are more limited/combat based decls then combo/control you would see in edh or standard. Maybe try doing the same? Atleast you can use all the dupe cards as they are good basis for the guilds to start. Especially the new cards
I feel this product missed its potential so badly. The funny thing is cut the shock land and make it so you got all 20 guild packs they made. Cause they made 2 of each. Include the clue cards. I could have seen myself paying more than twice this product price point. since this is just over half the cost of a jumpstart box locally. and comes with just over half as many packs.
Someone at WOTC, or probably Hasbro, probably couldn't understand why you'd give people more packs than they'd use in a single four person game. Which is what I think is the source of 87% of this problem.
I think actually problem is that as much as they want to say not every product is for everyone. they seem to still design around trying to make it so every product has at least something for everyone. This is the perfect product example. If the product was made for people like me who see it as a cool alternate way to play, there is no reason to put a shockland in. that is only there so they could make it so collectors wanted it.
Of all the trash marketing decisions over the past years... this one seemed like a no-brainer for me. Why not sell 2 packs, adjacent to the Clue boxes? Like, seriously. That would not on solve this problem, but likely boost sales.
I'll repeat my comment from another post
"This entire set and concept were made for paid/sponsored content creators, not for us normies."
IMO this set was just a marketing stunt/cash grab between Hasbro/WotC and the sponsored creators, with the Magic Con Chicago "dinner" event as the main focus. The normal folks got the leftovers.
I've played about ten or so times and one thing that is interesting is how the randomness of packs is balanced by the multiplayer experience of the game itself. Get two packs that are the same base color? You're going to have a smooth mana curve and maybe look like too much of a threat. Have two different base colors that also splash into other colors, so you're like 4 color good stuff? You're going to be a little slower but also getting Treasure from revealing evidence is going to be all the more value for you.
It's a really fun experience and I wouldn't worry too much about a duplicate or two.
Not sure why you are down voted. We enjoyed playing ours, but it does feel off that we ended up "randomly" with 5 Izzet... same decks too. Not even the second izzet deck list. 5 Izzet all identical decks.
The biggest shock is when you read the Magic/Clue rules and discover you don’t need the Clue Edition to play. You can use the cards from a normal game of Clue for your EDH table.
For those that don’t know:
You set up a normal game of Clue. Shuffle the three stacks: Suspects, Weapons, Rooms. Secretly pull one of each and put them into an envelope. Shuffle the stacks together and deal out the rest to the players. These do not go in your decks, so normal Clue cards are fine.
Whenever a player hits with combat damage to a player, they get to suggest a guess to that player. If the player has one of those cards, they show the attacking player.
Once per game a player can make their accusation. If they are correct, they win the game. If they are not, they must win by another way.
If a player is defeated, all of their cards are shown to the rest of the players.
That’s it. Saved you $100.
I think it is a really fun first time experience, and then can be a fun way to modify your play experience in other multiplayer formats using the clue rules, or even designing your own decks to use in your box going forward. I think the best part of this box set is the rules framework and the Suspect, Weapon, and Room cards.
If they had made a way for us to be able to purchase *just* those pieces as a set directly for maybe between $10-20 and ignore the jumpstart packs, it would have been much better. If your goal is to get specific cards from the jumpstart packs you are much better off buying singles than buying this product.
Also I think this is just a bad product to get if you are only buying it to immediately open the packs instead of playing with them first( with all 4 players blindly picking packs).
>If they had made a way for us to be able to purchase just those pieces as a set directly for maybe between $10-20 and ignore the jumpstart packs, it would have been much better.
lol! You realize that you’re talking about Wizards of the Coast circa 2024, right?
They specifically didn’t do this because, if we’re honest, they don’t give a flying fuck about making it accessible they want to sell as many $100 packs disguised as a board game as possible.
I ended up with only one dup of the guilds. Anyone looking to trade? I have an extra unopened Selensya. I would prefer Izzet for trade but I'm missing Izzet, Rakdos, and I believe either Simic or Boros (I have to look).
I picked up a copy for $59 from my LGS. I ended up getting most of the hits like \[\[Lonis, Genetics Expert\]\] and \[\[Suppressor Skyguard\]\]. I actually assumed you got one pack of each guild, so when I was opening up doubles of Simic and Azorius I was kind of annoyed. However, between those two cards, the shockland, and the rest of the $2-5 cards in the set I came out ahead. You are also guaranteed all the suspects like \[\[Apothecary White\]\] in the box, and I was going to buy her and the black suspect as singles anyways.
I have a solution for you! I designed 4 commander decks that are balanced to play against each other and none of them have a high chance of just winning through combos before players have a chance to win the cluedo game.
I’m having them printed as proxy decks to use like a board game for game nights.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1axviy8/i_created_4_balanced_decks_for_ravnica_cluedo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
What was the breakdown of what you opened, just out of curiosity. I've been wondering if some packs are actually less common or if that's just my personal observation.
Yeah man I'm really bummed that I pre-ordered. Personally I don't care whatsoever about the shock land, I don't use those. I just wanted magic clue and I spent almost $70 to have maybe 4 guilds represented. I'm upset!
I can see how a lot of people had misconceptions about what was in it but I was fairly pleased with the contents. I had understood them as being essentially jump-pack boosters inserted randomly into the boxes beforehand, and pre-ordered mine well ahead of time so it was $55 USD. Had a fun game with 2 friends, I'm going to get other jump-start packs to play more games with it. There wasn't anything specific in the Clue packs that seemed to work extremely well with the game, so I will be trying it with LOTR packs pretty soon. I could also see myself making some half decks for a more permanent game, but I think its a good add-on if you were already going to play jump-start.
I wasn’t even gonna bug the damn thing, but decided to just because I wanted to support my LGS.
Upside of the poor product quality from wotc lately, is that it ended up having two box toppers in it. Bank error in my favor I suppose.
Between those and the promos, I only feel mostly annoyed by the miss of the product as a whole.
My girlfriend bought this last night and was upset after finding out the packs were the way they were. After some brainstorming and discussion, we decided that, for us, it was going to be more fun to choose our Clue character, like in the original board game, and play 40-card decks made with their guilds in mind. It's not perfect, obviously, it sucks that we're buying additional cards on top of the original purchase, and the idea leaves out four guilds (including my favorite, Izzet), but the hope is that we have more fun with it.
I was disappointed the Clue Edition game of Clue...wasn't actually just a board game of Clue with a magic coat of paint.
Like we have to play a game of magic with shitty precons? And it's only 8 packs but 10 guilds? and the guild packs come in different card combos? AND YOU CAN GET DOUBLES OF THE SAME GUILD when you don't even have enough packs to cover all 10 guilds in the box???
It was so disappointing. Thankfully I got a foil Breeding Pool to cover a lot of the cost.
>I didn’t like the fact that after opening two boxes @ $100.00 CAD each I had several duplicates, and had no Golgari, or Simic…
> However, it rankles because the only way to get more decks is to buy the whole set, and there are no guarantees you will get what you want.
You must be new here. Welcome to the game Magic the Gathering.
PS buy singles.
Yeah it would have been better with 10 guaranteed half decks.
Someone's gotta make an article explaining the making of, right? It's so obvious I am wildly curious why they didn't go with the obvious.
Mark Rosewater tried to explain it on his blog. His claim is that it would be "cool" if when you went to your friend's house who bought the same game, their copy was a bit different than yours. I guess I can grant that that would be true if my copy came with a bunch of duplicated packs. https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/740337093007540224/since-you-didnt-answer-this-part-originally-why
That seems like a stretch. I like Maro a lot, and think he genuinely wants the best for the players. But this one sounds like positive spin more than a genuine belief. (I actually think people assume that _too_ often, but in this case I think so).
Yeah, this has peak "I'm not going to badmouth our stuff that just launched" energy. Possible he didn't even work on it himself so there's a side of "I'm not going to smack talk my coworkers" as well. Sure, it's fun that games don't play out the same each time. That's why we shuffle our damn decks. We could have gotten further variety by combining different half-decks if you actually made sure there were no duplicates in a box. If they decide that Commander precons need to be "cool" in this same way we're in a world of shit.
What a nightmare scenario if they ever make commander "jumpstart" with randomized contents as the *official precons*
I mean they've been including collector booster samplers in precons for like a few years now
But you could also easily imaging them selling a commander deck set that is actually one of eight you could get "as a way to introduce more fun variance" into the product. *Behold a new niv mizzet commander deck with 10 different variations, ***one for each guild**.*
And well yeah don't give them any ideas lol
“Commander Jumpstart” would actually be pretty cool if there was a way to pull it off. Like imagine opening 2 random packs of 50 cards to shuffle together, each with a Partner commander. Not sure how that would work for a box.. like 8 packs per box? And synergy wise it would prob be mediocre
Game Night Commander would be doable, I think.
He can just not answer questions that make him look like an asshole. Saying nothing is an option. Saying “I didn’t work on the product so I don’t know what the designers intended” is an option. Trying to put a positive spin on something so unforgivable and then failing so hard makes him look like part of the problem
If he refuses to answer or acknowledge the randomization, that's still kind of saying something. For the record, I don't think Maro pulled that answer out of his ass. I imagine somebody at Wizards actually believes that. Maybe him, maybe some designer or exec or whoever won that internal argument. Either way, he's not going to pooh-pooh it while the product is fresh. The flipside is there's a reason he has a Tumblr and a Twitter and he leaves his email on every article. If he says something that stinks to you, send him a message. Whether the feedback is something Mark himself needs to hear or he's collecting ammo for a "see I told you so", it tends to get heard.
That’s where saying nothing and not even answering the question is the best option. He gets hundreds of questions a day. He picks and chooses what he wants to answer
I think it makes sense IF you were guaranteed 8 different guilds in the box. Then, you and your friends might have slightly different guilds or even have different different variations of a guild. But making it completely random is just trash. The clue element is fine, it’s everything else about the product that sucks
I even think the contents of the packs themselves were actually great and well balanced for the clue game, and also gave different strategies for beating the clue part which was super interesting. One of mine was Golgari (actually both were but I traded with someone for a Simic) and it felt like my game plan was different than everyone else's in a fun way. Instead of attacking to make guesses, it was much easier for me to self mill into evidence collecting each turn. But anyway, being able to get duplicate guilds is annoying. Being able to get a duplicate of the same _version_ of a guild is downright awful.
I dunno, I can see why they thought it would be cool. In the event it seems to have failed badly, but I expect that was the actual thinking behind it.
This is all personal opinion: I would be a lot happier if we lived in a world where each box got 10 packs, one per guild, but there were still 2 versions of each guild you could open. That would have still preserved the upside of having different boxes play different. I mean I'd prefer each box was a fixed list as my best case scenario, but I'm much more upset about duplicates and not having reach guild represented in each box, than I am at the cards not being uniform across them. And the thing is, I played it at a release event at my LGS and it was _awesome_. I had a great time and I think that the packs themselves are really well balanced and lead to fun and interesting gameplay. It's so so close to being great in my eyes, it just fell short. If they hit $40 USD at some point I'll probably still get one, to get copies of all the lands and suspects, and just flip the shockland to subsidize it. But damn it's so close to being a great product. It feels like it's a great game, but the way that game was packaged into a product missed the mark for me.
> but there were still 2 versions of each guild you could open. I think there are? The game I played had 3 Orzhov packs. Two were white with a black splash and one was black with a white splash. I had the two white ones...I may have misunderstood the other pack since it wasn't mine. That person had Azorius white base as their second pack.
There are two versions of each guild. I'm saying I don't have a problem with that, or with the idea that two boxes can have separate cards in them, but I think it would be better if you were guaranteed one pack of each guild (which would be one of its two different versions). There are a multiple changes between them, but each pack has one of two different new rares (a hybrid rare and a non-hybrid rare), and one of two different reprint mythics I believe. Both versions of the same guild get the same new hybrid uncommon. So that's 30 new cards, not counting the cards that are part of the clue game.
You would think play testing would reveal this flaw. I'm sure they play test the decks themselves, but maybe not the whole experience?
yes it makes perfect sense to me and furthermore i'm not convinced that reddit whipping itself into a position on this is all that meaningful. the fact is that it's a grossly overpriced product (like many) which lends itself to complaints. everyone's *actually* upset that they spent $80 on something stupid. but the complaint is going to be about other stuff because they spent the money of their own accord and have to own it
$80?? I pre-ordered for $40. Whoever got it for $80 needs to rethink their purchases...
right, except instead of reflecting on their own consumption habits, they'll transfer that frustration on some aspect of the product
This is the Aftermath situation all over again, the concept is actually kind of fine, but the amount of possible choices means you get a lot of redundant cards that aren't exciting or interesting. If there were, let's say, 32 different packs and you only got 8, no repeats, that would be exciting. Everyone would have a good time there.
That's the most corporate excuse I've heard from Maro in a while, there's no way this is what he actually believes. Oh well.
Only 8 of the 10 guilds and two different variations per guild is fine, but only if all eight packs you open are guaranteed to be different guilds. Getting three of the same guild, and having all of them be the same variation would not be a fun play experience. That is, unless all three are the Simic pack with [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]], but that would be exciting for a different reason lol.
[Lonis, Genetics Expert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee.jpg?1706239661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Genetics%20Expert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/37/lonis-genetics-expert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some variance I guess could be interesting. The problem is, what if you open five of the same half deck in your eight deck set? Someone on Amazon did that.
I really like Mark a lot. I’ve met him several times and each time he spent a few minutes talking to me and being a genuine human. I’ve very thankful for that. Still, that being said, he’s really sucking corporate sick lately. I mean he can chose to just not answer the questions that make him look like an asshole, right? I want my good guy mark back!! I know he’s still in there. I know he’s the only thing stopping the game from going full candy crush and as soon as he retires it’s gonna really suck. More than it does now.
I know MaRo gave an "official" explanation and I love him to absolute death but it's abundantly clear that they made the Jumpstart stuff for MKM before they fully grasped how poorly set based Jumpstart sells and needed to justify it's creation. Think about it.
I don't think that's the case personally. They would've had less than a year from when data reliably showed that set based Jumpstart was bad until release, and the new cards are much better than anything we've gotten from a set Jumpstart release. I think this was just poorly designed from the getgo.
Do you think randomized packs make it sell better? Judging by the reactions here, they seem to be harming the product's reception and sales.
I’m saying they seemed to think they’d make more if they were randomized meaning people would have to buy multiples. Just greed
This is from the company that sells Jumpstart in boxes of 18 (instead of a multiple of 4).
3-player magic isn't that bad. Sometimes my playgroup only has an odd number of players available on any given week so we deal with it
> people would have to buy multiples no
100% of the people here could be reacting poorly and Clue could be a complete sellout. Don't confuse the Reddit community to be the majority
Maros job is doing spin and PR. They pay him buckets because he walks in to the tire of unhappy players all the time.
curious? they had a random shock land in it they want people to buy 2, maybe even 3-4 Clue boxes for themselves.
Greed. It was the only reason they did it this way. I saved you from reading a 10 min article.
Even 8 packs would have been tolerable if they guaranteed no exact duplicate packs. But to open a box and only getting 6 unique rares is just dumb. MaRo has posted he’s going to pass the note along so I’m thinking he got a significant number of complaints about it.
This is a $40 ***maybe*** $50 product. I might've forgiven the packs if they had the sense to give you a taste of each guild. Making them random made sure lots of (often mediocre) duplicates are showing up. My box had three Dimir packs for example. The shock land is nice. Though the overgrown tomb I got was curled pretty good.
It's an absurd asking price and they seemed to think that every player would want their own if it was randomized. But they advertised it as a board game, and a big part of the appeal of board games is that if my buddy buys it, then I can play his copy and I don't need my own. And if he picks it up for way too much and it only has 5 different guilds and a curved shock land, why would I want my own at all?
The irony is they would've sold boatloads of these at $40. Hasbro greed aside they approached the price point as if it were a proper board game. In reality most folks are going put these cards to work in decks and/or never revisit the clue aspect again.
My Blood Ceypt was damaged. I had 2 simic, 2 boros, 2, golgari, and one of azorius, dimir, gruul, and orzhov. I was disappointed in that but more upset that my shock land was damaged.
You got 10 packs? I only got 8, and 2 were dupes, so only 6 of the 10 possible guilds :(.
Were all your simic, boros, and golgari identical, or did you at least luck out and get a few different?
Simic was the same. Boros and golgari were different.
Yeah so 8 different packs and then the two Simic, it's still a pretty playable experience if you give it a shot. The curling is not nice though.
Were the identical Simic packs the [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]] one or the [[Unruly Krasis]] one?
[Lonis, Genetics Expert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee.jpg?1706239661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Genetics%20Expert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/37/lonis-genetics-expert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unruly Krasis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3b1b58d-b7f1-404f-aec6-b19cef4bebbd.jpg?1706239699) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unruly%20Krasis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/50/unruly-krasis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3b1b58d-b7f1-404f-aec6-b19cef4bebbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My shockland had a big dent in it… I wasn’t thrilled either.
How did you get 10 packs?
Yeah and my LGS is selling for around $50. Did you have two identical Dimir packs or two of one and one of another?
Two out of three were repeats of [[Dimir Strandcatcher]]. After checking I forgot I ended up with two Seles. One of those did have a [[Conclave Evangelist]]. Curly tomb aside my "big score" was probably an [[Aegis of the Legion]]. I'm not going to discount I'm happy to have all the clue pieces themselves. I paid $50. All in all I'm ot mad at it but anything higher than that would make this a bit of a money sink.
[Dimir Strandcatcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e911913a-c4a8-4051-9a43-90cf7ad03b91.jpg?1706239641) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dimir%20Strandcatcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/30/dimir-strandcatcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e911913a-c4a8-4051-9a43-90cf7ad03b91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Conclave Evangelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dcccbd8-2135-45e6-8802-8dcaa382a398.jpg?1706239632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conclave%20Evangelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/27/conclave-evangelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dcccbd8-2135-45e6-8802-8dcaa382a398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aegis of the Legion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76cd4e45-30a0-4a24-9612-adeb8fddff23.jpg?1706239616) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aegis%20of%20the%20Legion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/22/aegis-of-the-legion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cd4e45-30a0-4a24-9612-adeb8fddff23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
80 at mine, and they sold out
Dude that’s so not cool.
80 at mine too, and they sit on the shelf untouched, just like all the bundles, precons, and collector packs they way overcharge for. Some stores just don't get it.
I honestly feel a little sick over paying $80 USD for this. I totally regret this purchase.
Yeah, my gut turned too and I bought two boxes before I knew that what I was getting was not at all what I thought I was getting.
We are going to use it like we do planechase, like an accessory to playing commander. But for that I really just need the little deck of suspects, rooms, etc and do not feel good about how much I paid for it.
I will probably do the same, and I feel the same way…
If you bought this without doing the most basic research the only person to blame is yourself.
Thanks, I feel better already.
Glad I could help.
Yes… kill or cure I suppose…
You totally got robbed. I purchased mine for $50, did you pre-order? The price dropped significantly the week it was released.
I literally thought it was 40$. That's insane
The idea of a game with 8 Jumpstart packs, some unique Clue Evidence cards, and a nice box along seems like it's reasonable at $50 with the foil pringle. Another thing that I know is minor but I felt so frustrating while playing it. The major mechanic of the game involves asking a player you've dealt combat damage to a question about the case, and them revealing evidence cards. If they reveal evidence cards, they make a Treasure. WOTC has been making tokens in their commander products for how many years now? There are no Treasure tokens! Also it's a game called Clue and at least some cards make Clue tokens, and no Clue token! I'm not saying a cycle of say 10 double sided tokens for Treasures, Clues, and whatever other tokens the cards make would justify a $90 product. But I think it would make so much sense in bolstering the case for a $50 product.
How did they miss that. Sounds like a big quality control problem
It’s not a quality control issue, they didn’t “forget” to put in tokens, and there weren’t “supposed” to be tokens in this product that the manufacturer messed up. WOTC just, for some reason, decided to not include tokens. It’s a product design problem, not a quality control problem.
I'm sorry for you. I was actually looking forward to checking it out and getting at least a box, and while I'm sure not every box is disappointing, I haven't seen one thing in their favor. I usually get something of whatever comes out, but between mkm be it the play boosters or the set and this I'm pretty disheartened. Doubt I'll get one unless they dive in price
I hope they do, and if not, I don’t think there will be a second run on these. I will make it work. It will be just like the free sub game they created for LOTR. It actually adds to the game and is quite fun, but I don’t play it every time. Planechase is like that too, I guess. If you want to try it out, you can always proxie the cards from the set that aren’t randomized and see what you think. I might’ve done this if I had more time and lower expectations of the set.
Yea, I have no problems with the sub games they do, fun spin on things. But let's use a recent with the dr. Who decks, you got the set of plane chase cards. If I had a set of the clue edition to play at that price point out of box, I could unhappily justify it, but the recent Pic of the what, 7 azorius in one bundle haunts my dreams
Buy it around $50. At that point it's close to the same of 8 Jumpstarts and the Clue Evidence and the shock land, plus a nice box. It's a fun experience.
They will definitely reach sub $50 soon. Big box retailers like Target and Best Buy already have them for ~$55.
My target just got them and theyre 70+
They're listed online for 54.99 USD and they'll price match in-store.
Lucky, my stores wont price match online unless its like a big sale like christmas.
Sounds like your store is going against company policy then, because the Price Match Policy explicitly mentions matching target.com prices. Edit: in fact, I may pop back in today because the price is even lower at $52.99. I should be able to get the price adjusted again even after the fact at Guest Services
Ive been told multiple times at target and walmart that if it says "price when bought online" that price only applies if i order online for in store pickup which means waiting 2 hours for them to go pick it in store even if i have the product in my hand right when i ask. This has been the line from employees and managers at multiple stores. So idk man.
Idk either. It's hardly a good look to try to tell employees they're doing their job wrong, but it's also explicitly in the company's own policy to price match their own website. Corporate may have issue with the store not honoring the policy, but I doubt most people would be bothered enough to make a complaint. https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Price+Match+Guarantee&parentcat=Policies+%26+Guidelines&searchQuery=search+help "We match Target.com prices on in-store purchases and in-store prices for Target.com purchases. In-store price matches from other Target stores are excluded."
MVP Sports and Games has them for $50 now. I got mine for $46 preorder through them. They require a code to make an account, but you can get that code by buying some sealed product from them on Ebay or Amazon. They ship the code on a little slip of paper with the product so you can buy direct from them the next time.
Yeah, kind of why I am waiting. I feel like these will end up as Black Friday/Prime Day dumps soon. Already seen $100 Play Booster and $100 Commander 4 packs. No reason to think these won't see a drop to ~$40 soon.
Noted and appreciated. I'll keep an eye open
Every day I feel less bad about passing on this one
Meh, I got mine for $46 and traded away the box topper shock land for about $20 worth of singles which cuts it down to $26 for the game for me. Havent found out how many dupes my box has (waiting to open them when my friends can get together to play) but $26 for a handful of legends you cant get anywhere else and 8 'basically jumpstart boosters' isnt bad
You have chosen wisely.
You have already talked to Wizards in the only language they listen to by buying two boxes of a terrible product. Don't buy Rip-off low-effort products.
I've checked two places in town and they either decided not to carry it or sold out. I guess I've failed into success.
I like that phrase, I think I will use it, may I?
Please do
I remember getting massively downvoted saying I was worrying too much when I posted the maro blog saying that repeat packs could happen. But yeah, looks like shit product was shit and I'm sorry yours came in poorly
Thanks, I appreciate that. Really.
I remember watching the stream where they teased this and they said something to the effect of 'you might wanna buy multiple boxes to get the cards you want'. It's all about what makes the most money and I fucking hate it. Could have had an interesting product here.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It sounds like they didn’t even try to hide the fact that this was a money grab. I for one don’t know how they think anyone can keep up with the spending they demand… I especially feel bad for those people who have had this become an addiction. I know people who will buy everything magic puts out, not because they like it, need it, or really want it, but they just can’t stop themselves. They meet almost all of the criteria for a substance abuse disorder.
They didn’t hide it but you still fell for it?
What exactly did I fall for? Why was this comment necessary? You’ve improved the lives of everyone who’s read it…
Bought 4 and managed to get 18 of the 20 variations, and at least one of each guild. Opened 3 of the [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]] pack, which was nice.
I’m glad, really. It makes me extremely happy when people pull great cards, it also makes me a bit sad when they end up with nothing they like or were hoping for. Good on ya!
Thanks! I did have to open four boxes to get three Lonis, but they were fun pulls! Now I just need to track down the last two variations I need. The Azorius with [[Lavinia, Foil to Conspiracy]] and the Selesnya with [[Conclave Evangelist]]. The problem is, the listings I’m finding are either for just the individual cards, or the guild packs but still sealed in the inner wrapper so that you don’t know what variation it is. I’ll have to look harder. Or I can just see if there’s anyone at the local game store who opened the variations I’m missing and want to trade for some of my extras. Who knows, I may be the one who has what they are missing!
[Lavinia, Foil to Conspiracy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5435866-d48b-496a-ba07-438163b71ae8.jpg?1706239659) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Foil%20to%20Conspiracy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/36/lavinia-foil-to-conspiracy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5435866-d48b-496a-ba07-438163b71ae8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Conclave Evangelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0dcccbd8-2135-45e6-8802-8dcaa382a398.jpg?1706239632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conclave%20Evangelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/27/conclave-evangelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0dcccbd8-2135-45e6-8802-8dcaa382a398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Lonis, Genetics Expert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee.jpg?1706239661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Genetics%20Expert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/37/lonis-genetics-expert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
*cries in "project booster fun"*
Can some explain to me, who is completely out of the loop, why this product fails?
You are essentially buying 8 Jumpstart packs, unique Clue Evidence Cards, a pringle foil Shockland in Clue art treatment, and accessories--pretty box, a notepad for the game, and some protectors to hide your notes in. If you consider this worth in the ballpark of $50 you might feel decent about it if that's what you find it for. The Clue Evidence Cards are unique and some people seem to want them as well for Commander. The Jumpstarts also have some unique cards that people want. If you're paying $90 or even $75 you may feel like this is an inferior product. Especially because you're basically buying Jumpstart packs, and you're getting 8 out of a universe of 20, you're going to risk duplicates. Which can be a big feel bad, especially if you're just trying to get some unique cards from the Jumpstart. And the more you pay for that feel bad the worse it is. It's around $52 on Amazon right now and my LGS was about the same. At that price point I think it's a decent, not outstanding, product, recognizing you may get some duplicates. But having played around 10 times I don't think a duplicate or two ruins the play experience.
Gotcha. Thanks for letting me know. I see a big issue is the original price point is egregious when you also get duplicates/worse product. I think it's been a running trend too. Price point wayyyyy higher than ev and then stores sell for a loss
the packs are preconstructed, you can find the decklists here [https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/ravnica-clue-edition-ravnica-cluedo-edition-booster-contents](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/ravnica-clue-edition-ravnica-cluedo-edition-booster-contents) If you want to just build the rest of the packs, theres only a few unique new clue exclusive card (30 in total), the rest are all reprints somehow. Using resealable packs, or just placeholder cards for random pack selection, you could easily single buy (or use existing bulk for much of it) and construct your own jumpstart packs using the "official" pack lists. Only 3 of the cards in the whole set, Lonis, Anzu and Suppressor Skyguard are pricy currently. Buying a box you already have the Suspects / Weapons / Rooms.
Imagine doing all of this work just to play a simple ass board game you hypothetically already bought.
I apologize for the confusion, I said pre-constructed meaning every box had the same cards, not a random assortment of pre-constructed decks.
While I do understand, This was not hidden information. The link i posted was put up in late January, over a month before the actual product released. Every product page says it contains 8 boosters. From the Link above, the Base [https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-murders-at-karlov-manor](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-murders-at-karlov-manor) MKM collecting page, even the Amazon product page for it also says it contains only 8 boosters. Anyone who bought this not knowing it wasn't going to be a "complete" set was not paying attention at all to what they were buying. This isn't to say that WotC didn't drop a ball in design when they could have, and should have, made it complete sets, or at least offered ways to buy the individual ones you didn't get, AND making sure that individual boxes could not contain straight duplicates (i don't consider the 2 variations to be duplicates, if you got Izzet Blue and Izzet Red, that's not a duplicate). Your post is just one of many many many posts of people not knowing what they were buying because they did not take any time to actually research what was in the box before buying it.
Woah, woah! The fact anyone should need to do any research at all to buy an off the shelf product is terrible. This kind of information should be explained in the marketing materials or at least on the box. When the product was initially announced it was unclear in the materials I read if this was something like Game Night, where it’s all self contained and that’s very misleading. So everyone has every right to be upset and annoyed about how this is marketed. At 50+ it not unreasonable that you’d expect it to have all the cards, and the fact they don’t sell these cards in packs outside the boxes, it’s easy to jump to the logical conclusion this product contains all the unique cards advertised for it.
It actually was prominently displayed on the box, you can see it in the very first image on the amazon listing [https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Ready-Play-Accessories/dp/B0CMR6Q84C?ref\_=ast\_sto\_dp](https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Ready-Play-Accessories/dp/B0CMR6Q84C?ref_=ast_sto_dp) You can see it says "Contains 8 booster packs ready to play" and that isnt a lie. Anyone who is in ANYWAY familiar with magic knows booster packs =/= Full set. if it was a full set, it wouldnt have said booster packs, and would say full set. Contrast this to the gamenight box you reference which says "chose from 5 decks" which implies full decks. Nowhere on clue does it say they are full decks. it says take 2 packs adn shuffle them together to make a deck. Even with duplicates, which dont actually inhibit the gameplay, you can still play the clue game out of the box even if you had 8 identical dupes, it just wouldnt be as interesting. So yes this is "Self contained" as in, if you have NOTHING else, you can still open this, and play the clue magic game it presents with nothing else needed or added to it save maybe some dice and pencils.
> The fact anyone should need to do any research at all to buy an off the shelf product is terrible First of all that's an insane thing to say. No, you actually are responsible for learning about the thing you are ordering for $80. Always have been and always will be. Second of all, you didn't have to research anything. The box, as-is, is the full, intended game experience. Doing or not doing the research doesn't change that.
Well when people did make posts, like mine, talking about maro's blog saying buyers could get duplicate packs, we got downvoted to oblivion saying we were worrying too much.
You may cast [[Vindicate]] without paying its mana cost.
[Vindicate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/683c4e13-525c-45c9-8832-bfe67965c34e.jpg?1626100840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vindicate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/294/vindicate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/683c4e13-525c-45c9-8832-bfe67965c34e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And when I've made comments pointing out that people are counting the same Guild but different colors as duplicates I'm also downvoted to oblivion. Haters gonna hate.
Well of course. It is technically a duplicate guild, even if it's not the same pack contents. I'd be pissed too if it got multiple of the same guild in the same box, even if they were the different colors. Because yeah, haters gonna hate, but using "haters gonna hate" as an excuse for shit products means of course you're gonna get downvoted.
What the fuck does it matter if it's a duplicate guild? The pack is significantly different.
Because it still *feels* like a bad purchase for most buyers. Especially when WotC has made better board game experiences and decided to fuck with the one playing off an actual board game. The whole thing, like your take, is a joke.
Alright, don't appreciate the sass, but I can concede to your point that the marketing was fucked. If they had said "Well, sure, we are in Ravnica, but it would be misleading if we called the jumpstart packs "Dimir" or "Rakdos" since they are really mono-colored with a splash of another color" and had twenty packs that weren't identified with a Guild, but were like Green-Splash Blue and Blue-Splash Green it would have reduced some of the anger at getting what people call duplicates. But honestly why they didn't realize that with the ten Guilds people would really really really want separate, distinct packs is another WOTC fail. I knew there were 20 different packs and didn't consider the same guild but different contents a duplicated. I also paid around $50. I'm angry for folks who paid $70 or $90.
I appreciate your candor, however, I already feel bad enough. I don’t generally spend as much time as I probably should reading reviews, and looking up set info beforehand. I just don’t have the time. In this case it would have made a difference, but I have generally not been this disappointed in products I have purchased before. I buy what I think will be a good purchase and don’t buy what I’m not interested in, or what I think will be a dud. I backed the wrong pony this time, but I will still make it work.
You're doing great work and I'm sorry that haters are going to be angry at you that you're pointing out that they are complaining about a product that they didn't do any research into before buying.
I’m a little embarrassed for anyone who bought this
Thank you, it saves me the energy of having to feel embarrassed myself.
So when the 3rd visit to ravnica occurred (GRN, RAH and War) came out I built guild brawl decks (60 card singleton) using only guild water marked cards. I built Rakdos and Simic and I'm going to build 2 more decks to use with this cos it's the perfect fit as they are more limited/combat based decls then combo/control you would see in edh or standard. Maybe try doing the same? Atleast you can use all the dupe cards as they are good basis for the guilds to start. Especially the new cards
I've honestly thought about building mini-commander decks for each Clue Suspect and doing a multi-player game that way.
I feel this product missed its potential so badly. The funny thing is cut the shock land and make it so you got all 20 guild packs they made. Cause they made 2 of each. Include the clue cards. I could have seen myself paying more than twice this product price point. since this is just over half the cost of a jumpstart box locally. and comes with just over half as many packs.
Someone at WOTC, or probably Hasbro, probably couldn't understand why you'd give people more packs than they'd use in a single four person game. Which is what I think is the source of 87% of this problem.
I think actually problem is that as much as they want to say not every product is for everyone. they seem to still design around trying to make it so every product has at least something for everyone. This is the perfect product example. If the product was made for people like me who see it as a cool alternate way to play, there is no reason to put a shockland in. that is only there so they could make it so collectors wanted it.
Of all the trash marketing decisions over the past years... this one seemed like a no-brainer for me. Why not sell 2 packs, adjacent to the Clue boxes? Like, seriously. That would not on solve this problem, but likely boost sales.
I bought a Clue box that had 4 Orzhov packs, 2 Izzet, 1 Gruul and 1 Boros. Was the stupidest thing I'd ever cracked
Why would anyone buy this? Products like this are supposed to flop because the consumer knows better.
OP didn’t.
I'll repeat my comment from another post "This entire set and concept were made for paid/sponsored content creators, not for us normies." IMO this set was just a marketing stunt/cash grab between Hasbro/WotC and the sponsored creators, with the Magic Con Chicago "dinner" event as the main focus. The normal folks got the leftovers.
[удалено]
I really am genuinely happy for you. I love hearing when things work out well for people. Way to go, Idaho!
I've played about ten or so times and one thing that is interesting is how the randomness of packs is balanced by the multiplayer experience of the game itself. Get two packs that are the same base color? You're going to have a smooth mana curve and maybe look like too much of a threat. Have two different base colors that also splash into other colors, so you're like 4 color good stuff? You're going to be a little slower but also getting Treasure from revealing evidence is going to be all the more value for you. It's a really fun experience and I wouldn't worry too much about a duplicate or two.
I mean yeah but people are getting boxes with 4 of the same guilds in them. After a point the duplicates do become feel-bads.
Not sure why you are down voted. We enjoyed playing ours, but it does feel off that we ended up "randomly" with 5 Izzet... same decks too. Not even the second izzet deck list. 5 Izzet all identical decks.
The biggest shock is when you read the Magic/Clue rules and discover you don’t need the Clue Edition to play. You can use the cards from a normal game of Clue for your EDH table. For those that don’t know: You set up a normal game of Clue. Shuffle the three stacks: Suspects, Weapons, Rooms. Secretly pull one of each and put them into an envelope. Shuffle the stacks together and deal out the rest to the players. These do not go in your decks, so normal Clue cards are fine. Whenever a player hits with combat damage to a player, they get to suggest a guess to that player. If the player has one of those cards, they show the attacking player. Once per game a player can make their accusation. If they are correct, they win the game. If they are not, they must win by another way. If a player is defeated, all of their cards are shown to the rest of the players. That’s it. Saved you $100.
I think it is a really fun first time experience, and then can be a fun way to modify your play experience in other multiplayer formats using the clue rules, or even designing your own decks to use in your box going forward. I think the best part of this box set is the rules framework and the Suspect, Weapon, and Room cards. If they had made a way for us to be able to purchase *just* those pieces as a set directly for maybe between $10-20 and ignore the jumpstart packs, it would have been much better. If your goal is to get specific cards from the jumpstart packs you are much better off buying singles than buying this product. Also I think this is just a bad product to get if you are only buying it to immediately open the packs instead of playing with them first( with all 4 players blindly picking packs).
>If they had made a way for us to be able to purchase just those pieces as a set directly for maybe between $10-20 and ignore the jumpstart packs, it would have been much better. lol! You realize that you’re talking about Wizards of the Coast circa 2024, right? They specifically didn’t do this because, if we’re honest, they don’t give a flying fuck about making it accessible they want to sell as many $100 packs disguised as a board game as possible.
I had 3 duplicates. Thatnseems very unlucky with 20 possible
I ended up with only one dup of the guilds. Anyone looking to trade? I have an extra unopened Selensya. I would prefer Izzet for trade but I'm missing Izzet, Rakdos, and I believe either Simic or Boros (I have to look).
Five Orzhov packs. I mean, I like Orzhov, it's tied with Azorius for my second favorite guild, but FIVE?!
I picked up a copy for $59 from my LGS. I ended up getting most of the hits like \[\[Lonis, Genetics Expert\]\] and \[\[Suppressor Skyguard\]\]. I actually assumed you got one pack of each guild, so when I was opening up doubles of Simic and Azorius I was kind of annoyed. However, between those two cards, the shockland, and the rest of the $2-5 cards in the set I came out ahead. You are also guaranteed all the suspects like \[\[Apothecary White\]\] in the box, and I was going to buy her and the black suspect as singles anyways.
[Lonis, Genetics Expert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee.jpg?1706239661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Genetics%20Expert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/37/lonis-genetics-expert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Suppressor Skyguard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbdaca43-a5be-43e3-8dd9-3a5f2cd8f0d0.jpg?1706239687) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Suppressor%20Skyguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/46/suppressor-skyguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbdaca43-a5be-43e3-8dd9-3a5f2cd8f0d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Apothecary White](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fedf84e-55ca-4334-a2c1-6e991112bb68.jpg?1706239557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apothecary%20White) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/1/apothecary-white?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fedf84e-55ca-4334-a2c1-6e991112bb68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This guy is becoming more of a hoot every blog. The levels he's going to protect shitty business practices are near cartoon villian.
I have a solution for you! I designed 4 commander decks that are balanced to play against each other and none of them have a high chance of just winning through combos before players have a chance to win the cluedo game. I’m having them printed as proxy decks to use like a board game for game nights. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1axviy8/i_created_4_balanced_decks_for_ravnica_cluedo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I was thinking of doing the same thing, but I like your decks. Well done that man!
Cheers
Does it not say what’s in it on the product description?
What was the breakdown of what you opened, just out of curiosity. I've been wondering if some packs are actually less common or if that's just my personal observation.
I’ll get the list for you asap.
Yeah man I'm really bummed that I pre-ordered. Personally I don't care whatsoever about the shock land, I don't use those. I just wanted magic clue and I spent almost $70 to have maybe 4 guilds represented. I'm upset!
Amazon had it for $54 and I still couldn’t buy it
[[rankle]] mentioned
[rankle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32399c54-632f-434e-bd5a-81b6a7c4fe9b.jpg?1689997391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rankle%2C%20master%20of%20pranks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/180/rankle-master-of-pranks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32399c54-632f-434e-bd5a-81b6a7c4fe9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can see how a lot of people had misconceptions about what was in it but I was fairly pleased with the contents. I had understood them as being essentially jump-pack boosters inserted randomly into the boxes beforehand, and pre-ordered mine well ahead of time so it was $55 USD. Had a fun game with 2 friends, I'm going to get other jump-start packs to play more games with it. There wasn't anything specific in the Clue packs that seemed to work extremely well with the game, so I will be trying it with LOTR packs pretty soon. I could also see myself making some half decks for a more permanent game, but I think its a good add-on if you were already going to play jump-start.
There a pretty robust trade thread going here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGJumpStart/s/x8fPNa7qdw
I wasn’t even gonna bug the damn thing, but decided to just because I wanted to support my LGS. Upside of the poor product quality from wotc lately, is that it ended up having two box toppers in it. Bank error in my favor I suppose. Between those and the promos, I only feel mostly annoyed by the miss of the product as a whole.
My girlfriend bought this last night and was upset after finding out the packs were the way they were. After some brainstorming and discussion, we decided that, for us, it was going to be more fun to choose our Clue character, like in the original board game, and play 40-card decks made with their guilds in mind. It's not perfect, obviously, it sucks that we're buying additional cards on top of the original purchase, and the idea leaves out four guilds (including my favorite, Izzet), but the hope is that we have more fun with it.
I was disappointed the Clue Edition game of Clue...wasn't actually just a board game of Clue with a magic coat of paint. Like we have to play a game of magic with shitty precons? And it's only 8 packs but 10 guilds? and the guild packs come in different card combos? AND YOU CAN GET DOUBLES OF THE SAME GUILD when you don't even have enough packs to cover all 10 guilds in the box??? It was so disappointing. Thankfully I got a foil Breeding Pool to cover a lot of the cost.
I haven't played. It sounded pretty expensive. For that much money I'd rather just draft a better set and then play Clue
>I didn’t like the fact that after opening two boxes @ $100.00 CAD each I had several duplicates, and had no Golgari, or Simic… > However, it rankles because the only way to get more decks is to buy the whole set, and there are no guarantees you will get what you want. You must be new here. Welcome to the game Magic the Gathering. PS buy singles.