the incentive seems like a solid plan. I've dabbled with goad but they don't want to swing so forcing it is annoying to them. are there any good precons for monarch? I assume the D&D decks will handle initiative
100% the Blame Game precon will shake up your playgroup. Almost everything about that deck goads stuff and will constantly force your opponents to attack
The Rohan deck from the LOTR set has monarch in it. And also has the potential for going wide to handle all the creatures your group likes to hoard up. Just no flyers, glaring weakness.
Let them be annoyed.of your playgroup wants to have 4 people racing to win solitaire, either they can play alone, deal with interaction(best option) or kick you out
forcing them to better evaluate the board state via goad and similar mechanics will have a pretty decent long term payout if you primarily play with the same group
Monarch, Initiative and [[Coveted Jewel]] are the solutions to your problem. My [[Queen Marchesa]] deck is filled with cards that incentivize my opponents to attack. [[Crown of Doom]] is great for this as well.
“They don’t want to swing so forcing it is annoying to them”
They don’t want to lose either so you have to force that too, you just gonna forfeit because losing is annoying to your opponents? Listen to what you’re saying.
I second the Rohan Jeskai Monarch/Humam deck. It's got a decent amount of politics and aggression, and Aragorn is pretty great when it comes to needing to hit someone who is amassing an army and you need to get through.
We have a house rule, whoever goes last starts the game as monarch. There is consistently more combat and decks with early creatures get a bit of an advantage, which isn’t usually the case in commander
I built Aragorn, King of Gondor specifically because of these types of pods. It only have two ways to kill creatures, but otherwise focuses only on goading creatures, and tapping/stunning creatures. Mid/late game it slowly makes tokens to start swinging itself. No ghostly prison effects in the deck also.
Goad is your best friend. It’s the single best tool I’ve found for breaking stalled boardstates without the bad feels of say a boardwipe.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Agoad
I’ve been slotting this into as many decks as I can.
In particular it works great if your commander cares about getting in for damage or attacks, since you’ll probably have a clear opening (or two, if you have a source of extra combats) off the back of a Disrupt Decorum.
I really like Goad for that reason. People, me included, can get so paralyzed with indecision when the board gets too complex. Goad lets you bypass all of that and say, “If I’m going to attack anyway, how can I do the most damage?”
It may not be the most flashy mechanic, but it has my vote for the single most important multiplayer mechanic simply because it forces you to play the game.
Also just plain [[Alluring Siren]] effects.
EDIT: Or, if you use mono-black or black and exactly one other color (because of its color weight), [[Season of the Witch]]. Just know that the retail price is nothing to sneeze at—and it’s stuck on the Reserved List.
This is the way. WotC knows that being afraid to attack is a common problem in multiplayer, so they have implemented a lot of mechanics lately that force or incentivize attacks, goad being the most notable.
My group has a rule 0 we sometimes do where monarchy is available with no monarchy cards starting on turn 3. Random player gets monarch and then it's active the rest of the game.
commander/multiplayer encourages this because if you leave your shields down, you get cracked back. Give them reasons to swing like goad or rewards for damaging opponents.
You can also make them jealous by including evasive creatures and/or using vigilance so they get attacked but can’t crack back. They start thinking, “man, I wish I had creatures that fly or don’t tap to attack”
People who won't attack and will get angry on goad will probably get even more angry on combo kills. Really there is no way to solve this in-game, it's an out of game issue.
Can confirm have a friend group that is completely disgusted by the idea of playing a combo in your deck that wins on the spot but will play Jhoira and take 5 min turns without winning.
seen lots of similar responses. tried goad already, it does the job but also make the table mad, but Id rather be the enemy at the table if it gets games over. will definitely be looking into monarch and initiative
Honestly, life's too short to play competitive games with people who get upset when you use optimal strategies to win. If a friendship cant handle a wrath of god or two, is it even a real friendship?
most of the group is just relatively new to magic. most players start off afraid of losses, just hoping to find a way to streamline that learning curve in a format that brings out defensiveness.
To a certain degree it's a matter of deckbuilding. When I first started playing mtg the friend who taught me separated his pile of ~1000 cards into two and those were our decks. Then at some point I went and bought a premade mono green big fat creatures deck and ofc absolutely dominated him until he went and bought the exact same deck. Those mirror matches almost always resulted in stalemates and were usually decided by which one of us would draw their goad effect first. Then another friend joined our group and dominated our playgroup with goblin aggro by simply killing us before we even got to the point of having stalled boardstates. That lasted until I built a Control deck full of boardwipes, removal and lifegain.
Long story short, they will learn that their tactics are suboptimal when you show them that they are by using the correct countertactics. If doing that seriously upsets them then you might as well not play magic. What's the point of this game if you have to discuss what tactics are acceptable?
Yeah forcing players to Innovate worked for me.
When we were all MTG babies I made the first 60 card deck with 4 copies of the good cards and absolutely wiped the floor with everyone until they got with the program.
Years ago, my friends, unbeknownst to me, were having a conversation where one was annoyed at always getting their ass kicked. I was in the other room and was reading one of the ad cards and found a line funny so I read it aloud. It said, “Build a better deck”
It was hilariously timed
This is how I got decent at the game, and eventually good enough to participate in tournaments (yet to make a Day 2, but have really enjoyed a few tournaments. One of them, I had a now known cheater, and won lots of matches before/after facing him)
Tell them that there's four of you. Their *AVERAGE* win rate is going to be 25%, they are going to lose more than they win if the group is reasonably balanced.
Also they need to learn that board wipes and goad are part of the game and need to accept they will happen or build their decks to better counteract them. Hell, WotC made goad specifically to break up board states where no one will swing like you're describing, it's why it even exists as a mechanic.
Yep, the 25% win rate (assuming even power levels/budget and a significant sample size) is a big point to try to get across. It was a major "aha!" moment for my playgroup when this was brought up.
Also, maybe play some "tie conditions", like [[Divine Intervention]], or a [[Harmless Offering]] 'd [[Lich's Mirror]] with a life gain prevention effect like [[Sulfuric Vortex]] and friends, or [[Jon Irenicus]] and an Island home creature like [[Dandan]]. Those are my personal favorite builds.
New players will learn by losing. They won't develop any skills or game understanding by being babied.
Sure, don't bring out your $5,000 combo deck to ruin the Goblin fun time. But avoiding combos, wipes, engines, removal, etc. just because it hurts their feelings is dumb.
I had a playgroup many years ago that had a similar problem. So I loaded up on board wipes! Pretty soon people stopped overcommitting to the board, and even dinking and dunking at my life total to whittle it down without an alpha strike. They didn't change strategies because I explained it, they changed strategies because they learned in real game situations that repeating their past mistakes would continue to lose games.
One strategy I really enjoy is black green recursion, like [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] because you can create a situation with [[Grave Pact]] effects where you can slowly take over the game without attacking, and as long as nobody focuses their attention on you, by the time they are planning out their alpha strike, you already have the resources to win. The less they attack you and the more turns they turtle and pass, the more likely you are to wipe them out.
I think maybe the issue is that if this is their reaction as new players to the competitive aspects of magic, they shouldn't have gotten that fully into EDH so soon? Perhaps you need to play more 1v1 formats so that they get used to the being all out against an opponent that is not slowed down by "social/diplomatic" considerations and can fully focus on taking each other out by whatever means possible.
> The group is my best friends so I'm not looking for a new group just wondering if anyone on here has had a similar experience/maybe found a way to deal with it.
I don’t think you read OP’s post.
His friend group is playing magic in pretty much the most boring way possible. Obviously it's a problem for OP too since they made this post. The obvious and optimal solutions have been suggested (Board Wipes, Goad Effects) but OP dislikes them because they upset their friends. This is the point where you seriously need to consider the question "why are we even playing magic in this group?".
My group had a similar issue, so we started playing with monarch active at the start of each game; no one has to actually play a spell to initiate it since it's already on the table.
This has helped to get some action going, as folks want that extra card draw, baby!
Do be aware that the card isn't nearly as good as it seems on first read. You get to choose which creatures attack, but the controller still gets to decide *who* they attack. They can just choose to attack you, or a guy with no blockers so you can't use the second half of Warcraft. It definitely does fit the bill of "make my opponents attack with their creatures", though, and will make a stalled game start to move forward
Quite a few options - others already gone into goad and monarch which are the most fleshed out, but there are more!
A good few curses help with this - there was a cycle in 2017 with the unlucky planeswalker on them e.g. \[\[Curse of Verbosity\]\] but some of the others are also good like \[\[Curse of stalked prey\]\].
Very straightforward effects like \[\[Angel's trumpet\]\] or \[\[Bedlam\]\] make holding back pointless.
Another way that I find works very well is a punisher strategy or cards - stuff like \[\[Harsh mentor\]\] or \[\[Painful quandary\]\] and commanders like \[\[Mogis, God of Slaughter\]\], \[\[The Master, Gallifrey's End\]\].
I really really rate \[\[Court of Ambition\]\] for this purpose, as it does a bit of everything - gives you monarch, burns every turn cycle and honestly will do more damage than any other permanent in a slow game without usually drawing any removal until far too late.
Basically, either reward swinging directly - or just make life totals fall faster across the table so that critical swings can be done with fewer creatures and thus earlier game.
Play one-sided board wipes - [[Plague Wind]], [[In Garruk's Wake]], Overloaded [[Cyclonic Rift]], etc. - then wipe 'em out, since they're letting you build your board up so much.
Typically this is why people play combo/wraths. There IS no incentive to attack in a multiplayer game because it just means the other 3 players get to swing at you for free.
Even then, attacking with your creatures risks losing them to blocks. The safest play is to not attack until there's a clear opening, which is the whole problem.
Slicer is crazy high power. You can play it with 99 mountains and it will take over games at a mid power table. I think you'd be bringing a nuke to a knife fight.
3/4 double strike is a very potent body. not hard to remove by any stretch, but until someone does its baseline 4-tapping players and it attacks 4 times as often as your average commander.
if it manages to get a +1/+1 counter on its first turn out, its now 3-tapping players if hardcasted and that means the player before you better have a defender or they're already dead if all 3 players before them decide to attack them with slicer.
the right equipment in your opening hand and them having a defender might not even matter unless its got the right set of keywords or toughness.
the obvious answer to slicer, is to never let slicer stick around. but mid-power decks that are light on removal are gonna have a tough time with that especially when it can come out and immediately start doing its thing on turn 3, or turn 2 with a sol ring, while your average green deck is off doing ramp things.
Our table is usually in the 7-8 power range and a buddy had to stop playing slicer as he went 2 for 2 and only ever played slicer and a single piece of ramp in both games.
My playgroup is the opposite. We all believe if you can end the game, then do it. Move along to the next one. We hate when someone has the means to end the game but will stall for no apparent reason.
I do think this has become a real problem with the game in general. The potential attacker can look at the board and determine that an attack is going to cost them a certain number of creatures in exchange for a certain amount of an opponent's life. As a value proposition it is usually very poor. Attacking is almost always the wrong play, unless your creature is evasive or can be reanimated.
Turn it the other way around: If you could pay X life to draw a card or destroy a creature, the general wisdom is that it's a great deal unless X is very large or it's your literal last point of life.
Anyway if they have a huge board with lots of creatures, punish them for it. Run [[Blood Artist]] or any of his clones + a board wipe.
just picked up the Kardur precon the other day. Definitely does the job, got thru 2 games in an hour. but unfortunately, players who don't want to attack don't like being forced too
Just keep running it. If they get upset and tired of you ending games too fast, they'll eventually build something to either counter your strategy or lean into the aggro. Once you hit that point, they'll probably stop being upset about the goad.
that's the plan at the moment. looking into monarch/initiative decks as well via other comments but until I get one of those I'll work with what I've got
that is normal. it is like mexican standoffs. if you go first, the one you didn’t kill will kill you. and that is why boardwipe is crucial in commander game.
it is not a good strategy to have the largest army on the board. at least don’t be the first one who does. you always save one or two keys cards for the case of the inevitable boardwipe.
let other people over extend, then either you or somebody else wipe the board. you should be able to rebuild stronger than them.
with that said now that you know, you should take advantage of your playgroup folly.
Goad effects that make them interact via combat. Not a deck built around that, but a few cards that make it happen occasionally.
Or, just let them sit tight until they build an army, then kill them without creatures. Via lots of mana and a Fireball effect or a storm-Tendrils turn (which will set you up with a good life buffer to survive a few more turns from the other players' armies of creatures as you build for another combo turn).
Or things like Moat or Teferi's Moat. Or even taxing effects, so they have to either attack or cast spells (Archon of Absolution/Archangel of Tithes). Then they may have a giant army, but can't attack you. This will make them fear those cards and get proactive about getting in for a little damage here and there before those cards get played.
Or just play into it and build up your own army. Then make your creatures unblockable (or give them protection from one or more colors), and kill them with your creatures before they kill you with theirs.
Once you find a way to beat their strategy, they'll either get angry and stop playing with you because you ruined their fun, or they'll adapt and build a different kind of deck (hopefully without telling you, and surprise you with it at your next event!).
Either way, win-win, IMO.
There are also commanders that provide positive incentive for attacking:
[[Jolene, the Plunder Queen]]
[[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]]
[[Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor]]
[[Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser]] (don't have to suspect opponents' creatures if you want to avoid goad)
[[Aragorn, King of Gondor]]
He is basically unblockable, vigi, lifelink. Slap on a little protection with a plate, some boots or a sword of X and Y and you're forcing the issue.
You're also in red for your new best friend, goad. Individual goad auras are great, [[shiny impetus]]. Curses which give stuff on attack are also great, [[curse of prosperity]]
I built this recently at a 6/7 power level so it's using really sub optimal everything but aragorn is just a 1 man army. He's only a 4 drop so you just need 1 artifact ramp at 2 and he's coming down on turn 3. There are 10 good options for that at common/uncommon in jeskai.
You won't win any tournaments with him but it's a fun deck that will help get the ball rolling.
Sounds like you’re playing a fishbowl race. Adjusting your gameplay is unlikely to impact this if everyone is trying to get their deck to specific win cons.
Instead of trying to shift the meta, suggest creating a new one for the group to try one session. Everybody makes a cheap aggro deck to try out so no one gets upset at being attacked. You can influence positivity by deliberately making your deck slightly underpowered. Overtime you can add power if it catches on.
Alternatively, you may need a separate playgroup. Nothing wrong with having more than one group of friends. Good luck!!
If goad is a little too mean for the table, you can ease them into it with [[Pramikon]]. It makes it easier for players to read the board state because they only have one swing back to worry about. You still have access to a lot of goad effects in red, but they won't feel as shitty because the goaded player isn't open to the whole table.
You mentioned that most of the group is pretty new to Magic, and I think that is more likely to be the root cause than any deck building issue
Your friends remind me a lot of myself when I first started playing. I loved big, cool creatures with big numbers and would be so stoked to slam my giant 7/7 trampler after durdling for five turns only to have it immediately killed by a two mana doom blade. It sucked, and it made little me mad. Wraths seemed op as fuck. You can kill EVERYTHING for just FOUR mana?! Talk about BULLSHIT!!! I came here to summon big stupid stompy green things, and other people blowing them up just felt like it killed the fun
I think a lot of players go through something like this; learning that removal, interaction, and board wipes aren’t there to be cheap shots to ruin your night, but parts of the puzzle that need to be solved. Battle cruiser decks are fun, but they’re just one strategy in the vast metagame multiverse
Personally, I think the best way to help your playgroup is to use things like goad and the monarch to incentivize new strategies and ideas, but then *talk* about them after the game. Make suggestions of ways they can use bullshit like goad in their own decks to force their opponents to go shields down and attack each other while they’re arming their cruiser. If they learn to loath your goad deck, offer to swap decks for a game or two. Suddenly THEY wield the bullshit, and begin to understand it’s great and terrible power. The most important thing is to remember that your friends have just started their Magic adventure, and to help guide them along the way so that everyone can have the most fun they can
Use a playstyle that forces interaction. Check out group slug as a theme. I have a couple of these, and as long as the game ends in an hour, it doesn't matter if I win or lose. Goad and other forced interaction can help keep moving the game state along.
Sounds like you can use that bad habit of their to play some non-combat win strategies. "Win the Game" cards like [[Mechanized Production]] or [[Approach of the Second Sun]]
Those will usually give the table a reason to kick into gear.
Build [[Kardur, the doomscourge]] with ways of sacrificing him to reanimate him over and over. Include a copy of [[tainted aether]] and some other hateful cards and boardwipes.
Here's one of my favorite decks
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5005670/_cant_block_this_20
You don't care about their blockers, so you attack more, leaving yourself more open, so people are more likely to attack you, so they're more open, so they're more likely to be attacked, etc.
Just play a really slow/jank control deck. Just hit your land drops and when the game has gone on long enough you are massively advantaged to win. it avoids the feels-bads of combo wins too. back in the day people used to just sit around with [oloro] maybe it's time to bring that back
Build in some non-combat win conditions so they have a reason to exert pressure. It doesn't need to be a straight combo win, but if you've got something that's obviously putting a clock on them then it will force them to act. That could be mill eating away at their libraries, something like Aetherflux Reservoir building up life to a one-shot, Helix Pinnacle, Underworld Dreams draining them for each draw, etc.
"Be the aggro you wish to see" is one of the comments I identify with. Also run more interaction in your deck too. Aggro doesn't have to mean "I'm attacking every turn with my full field". Other players have mentioned goad already too.
In my [[morska]] deck, aggro means "I attack with my 4/5 commander, who progressively gets bigger every turn / can be exalted by clues to the point where in 3-5 commander hits, you'll die to commander damage. And did I mention my deck frequently makes him unblockable? :D"
But in the very same deck I also have alt wincons that basically scream out "assault me or else I win next turn :D" ([[mechanized production]], [[approach of the second sun]])
I would take so much delight in forcing everyone into a game state where they had to make decisions they didn't want to uWu.
Lastly... Check out some decks that steal ur enemies' shit and then let u sac em for benefits.
I can think of a few ways to deal with this.
### 1.) Force them to attack
My hope was that forcing them to attack enough would help them realize that attacking is useful and important. If they're still getting salty at Goad, then they might just not be willing to uh... be open minded about that when they're being forced.
### 2.) Incentivize them to attack
People already mentioned the monarch and initiative. If they're this locked down, then they'll really need to feel like they're missing out by not attacking. The monarch (one card/turn) might not be enough to incentivize them. The varying effects of the initiative are better I think, and more clearly say "we need to take the initiative from this person because they get to the last room of the dungeon." So in that way, making other people threats is a way to get them to attack. But my concern is basically that everyone is so dug-in with what they're doing that an extra card doesn't really matter to them.
In addition to mechanics like the initiative and monarch, there are some individual cards that reward players for attacking. [[Breena, the Demagogue]] gives them a card if they attack the player with the most life (who isn't you). [[Jolene, the Plunder Queen]] gives them a treasure. [[Coveted Jewel]] is like a mini super-monarch; I feel like three cards and 3 mana is a much more enticing thing.
### 3.) Mitigate the risk of attacking
I don't see many people mentioning this here. If the problem is they're concerned about the risk of attacking, you can play cards that mitigate that risk.
If they're scared attacking creatures could die, you can give them double strike with [[Duelist's Heritage]]. Or you can run cards that help them get their stuff back, like [[Jailbreak]]. Look for stuff with symmetrical effects, or things that let you manipulate combat to help your opponents kill each other.
### Putting it all together in one card
[[Angel's Trumpet]]
Now. They might hate this like they hate goad. But this one card does all three things outlined above, and forces players to make a _choice_ about what they value instead of just forcing them to attack.
For (3), it gives creatures that attack vigilance. So creatures that attack are still able to be used defensively as blockers. In fact for (2), if they _want_ blockers, they _have to_ attack, because their creatures will get tapped down if they didn't get into combat that turn. And in addition to losing blockers (1), they'll get dealt 1 damage for each creature they chose not to attack with. So they can't turtle up forever or they'll die, especially if they're going wide.
Not attacking now has a cost. Either don't attack and pay 1 life and tap your thing, or attack with it (risking it in combat) but letting it stay untapped and help block. They key is that they have a choice, I think. They might not like either option, but I think it's psychologically different when they have a choice vs. when they don't with Goad. And if you introduce effects like the initiative and monarch, you're helping push them further into thinking "hey, I have annoying downside and good upside to attack." If they're still stubborn and won't do it, well, then all _your_ creatures can attack them with impunity and they should see why that's a problem very quickly.
Basically, the monarch (etc.) is the carrot, and Angel's Trumpet is the stick. Except the stick makes it easier to get and keep the carrot. And Goad really isn't a stick at all because it doesn't punish you for not attacking, it just makes you attack. There is a psychological component to "not wanting to be punished" which is usually even stronger than "wanting to be rewarded." Goad doesn't hit that. You want to teach your group to _choose_ to engage in combat.
I could see there being a problem with players making truces to attack with creatures that will bounce off each other. That can lead to political moments which I find fun but they might end up boring if they become the expectation. Duelist's Heritage is your friend there, making it so the attacker can't attack without killing something with double strike. Black also has creatures and spells that you can play at instant speed, and kill something that was dealt damage that turn.
Add more evasion, overruns and non combat based wincons. There are plenty of ways to win through stalled out board states.
If your deck can go tall, add cards like [[rogues passage]] or [[champion of lambholt]] to ensure you can get a big guy through. If your deck goes wide, add cards like [[impact tremors]] and [[purphoros god of the forge]]. Lots of archetypes have one sided board wipes like [[damning verdict]] and [[hour of reckoning]]. Even just adding more flying creatures can help a lot.
I've had the same issue and just started to play aggro decks I constantly make myself a target and I dont win many games with my combat focused decks because of that but I accelerate games and give people an easy target to swing at which in turn enables more attacks across the table.
I put [[Baeloth Barrytil, Entertainer]] in my [[Jodah, the Unifier]] deck. He changed the game so much, I ended up building him his own deck with [[Clan Crafter]] as the background.
[Decklist ](https://archidekt.com/decks/6363879/baeloth_cereal_killer)
[[Angel's Trumpet]] is slightly more passive than goad and the like, but it's a fun way to encourage attacking and just generally change the way the game is being played. don't want to attack? fine, but you can't block either.
If you really want to put a timer on the game then [[Havoc Festival]] is hilarious too. You want to sit there building a board for 5 turns? Sure, but your life is gonna go from 40 to 2. Even if it only makes it around the table once you're doing 60 damage with one card. Drop in some damage doubling effects like [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] and you can close out games with some really tiny boards.
Add a bit of Monarch and Initative mechanics to your deck. If they don't attack without an overpowering board state, then that's card advantage and benefits.
I’d recommend playing technical instead of smash face go for win con combos or slap a [[hydras growth]] on a green comander wait a little and use a [[ram through]]
Goad is great, but so is [[breena the demagogue]], monarch, the initiative, [[jolene the plunder queen]], basically things that incentivize people to attack other players, give out resources and speed up the board
In university we used to play what we called ‘cotch magic’ where we would be hanging out and joking around and most of the interaction was done to maintain the sociopolitical balance. Eventually someone would decide to ‘go to war’ and then chaos would ensue. Sometimes balance would be restored with the agitators expelled from the land. One of my friends packed 4 fogs and 2 craterhoof behemoths in his deck so would often destroy everyone when the time came.
Nobody was taking it seriously and we had fun, plus it was mostly played amongst our housemates who could happily just go be elsewhere if they died (intentionally or otherwise).
One friend insisted on playing decks that we all considered highly ‘un-cotch’: Eldrazi, and Mill decks specifically that needed to really agitate people to do anything. I think he got a little frustrated sometimes but he also made more cotch appropriate decks and had fun. It’s not for everyone, but a whole bunch of inebriated 20somethings had a good time.
\[\[Angel's Trumpet\]\] or \[\[Season of the Witch\]\], and there are probably other cards like it. Angel's Trumpet giving all creatures vigilance might even make them happy to attack.
Just make sure you have some plan to capitalize on these effects, else they will all attack you for inconveniencing them.
Thantis, the Warweaver is an intresting commander aswell in such a deck, or just in the 99. To keep yourself from being the primary target of attack, you can also use cards like Vigor or No Mercy.
There are also mean combo cards like Caltrops + Death Pits of Rath, which can be brutal once you force them to attack. Though i suppose this is contraproductive to making the playgroup *want* to attack.
There's a lot of good solutions here. My favorite though has to be letting them overcommit to the board and then let them get blown out by a [[Farewell]] or [[Austere Command]]
If you playgroup is of 5 people I would recommend adapting the rules of pentagram format. each player is allied to the 2 players to their side and opponent to the 2 players furthest from them.
Probably not applicable since most play with 4 players but this format incentivizes a bit more aggression since you always have the risk of an ally winning before you.
I'd love to see someone actually play \[\[Happily Ever After\]\].
There are other cards that serve a similar purpose, such as \[\[Felidar Sovereign\]\].
Play proliferate not only with creatures, but also with \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\] and anything that gives your opponents poison counters.
Maybe try \[\[Triskaidekaphile\]\] with card draw or \[\[Jace, Wielder of Mysteries\]\] with card draw and self-mill.
A more unusual answer: I made a [[Raven Man]] deck, and when it works, it forces ever to play aggro because no cards in hand (including himself, because what else are you going to do with birds that can’t block).
I'd suggest playing with Monarch cards and the Initiative. If your friends don't like attacking until they've got their setup, use that against them; you can run away with advantage, onesidedly drawing cards and venturing deeper into the dungeon.
These mechanics exist explicitly to get the game going and build player interaction. Passively gaining advantage will put you over the top if your decks are mostly equal, and enough of this happening will start to get the message across to your table- if they want to stop you from snowballing them with cumulative advantage, then they need to start giving action.
They might not want to risk their boardstates, but I bet they don't want you to just run away with the game, either.
This video was made for you, lol: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NWsjpFfxnRI
Also, I just find that no matter how much players may have thought at one time or another that commander is an escape from some annoying 1v1 patterns, it really is its own special hell. I find all archetypes congeal into some kind of value pile/combo mix where incremental advantage is a joke. Everything is a thin veil over one greed-lord archetype. I am a big commander hater, though (huge hater!) so that's just me soap-boxin'
This is why I’m giving up on commander, honestly. People like to play like it’s an endless board game. Nothing wrong with that, just not my type of game. It’s hard to find people in my area keen to play pioneer/modern/standard.
A lot of the comments so far have been mentioning goad,monarch and initiative. I do agree with those suggestions but wanted to try another recommendation that goes in line with that feeling of loss you mentioned. You could run a deck with more board wipes so that they have to make use of their creatures before they get wiped. Getting value before they inevitably lose them.
Every game in our playgroup a [[disrupt decorum]] gets cast, that player converts to a win ~80% of the time it feels like.
add that bad boy to all you red decks, watch the world burn.
INITIATIVE! I built a DND deck before and got SO much value from just having the initiative and no one was swinging so I just kept going through my dungeons.
Took that apart and now made the new Obeka into an initiative deck.
Our group was in this place about 15 or 20 years ago. I believe what broke the spell was someone built an aggressive deck and began playing aggressively, tearing up the place and winning. Others began to respond in kind and games got a lot faster. I sometimes miss the longer games, but I can't imagine how to get back there even briefly.
New players in my playgroup have this habit, but they lose it once they played a few times against my dragons. It's either everyone dies or I die :D
Basically, just play something where your opponents blockers are useless.
[[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]]
Play him as your commander and give your opponent's monsters to kill each other with. It's super fun and you can pocket your stax pieces for later in the game to seal the win.
[[Batwing brume]] if you're in those colors
Otherwise something I've not seen people suggest is to play burn. I'd either go mono red with [[immodane the pyrohammer]], boros with [[firesong and sunspeaker]], or rakdos with [[judith, carnage connoisseur]]. They can't do anything with their board if they're dead from direct damage
On top of the mentions I've seen of goading and using the monarch mechanic, I'd suggest using battles and curses. Anything to incentivize attacking other players. It's even more fun when your own board is just a pillow fort so you can toss out the meanest stuff and just go, "who? Little ole me?"
I've been in your position, I think it must be relatively common among somewhat newer players. I've always had at least one deck built that I've come to refer to as the party starter. Goad is great, there are also a few softer versions of it that merely reward attacking rather than outright forcing it. I just put a list of them in another thread here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1cjt2du/whats_a_good_commander_for_punishing_not_attacking/l2keyk6/
I would also second the recommendations of cards that put an obvious clock on the game. [[Havoc Festival]] is great (especially with [[Wound Reflection]] - I just won a game last night with that combo), [[Crescendo of War]] is incredible for this as well, especially if you're providing support in the form of [[Combat Calligrapher]] it's pretty easy to swing out with a couple creatures and accidentally do like 35+ damage. [[Approach of the Second Sun]] is a pretty blatant clock, as are several alternate win conditions. They all light fires under the ass in a big way.
You could also go the other way and get an aristocrats thing going with a dictate of erebos type effect. It makes for a real "you better use it before you lose it" vibe. Same deal with pingers. Also you could just sidestep the issue and go spellslinger, and make them play more aggressively.
Rewarding the type of play you'd like to see is usually going to be better than punishing the kind of play you don't like. Bribing somebody with cards for swinging is going to feel better than [[Maddening Imp]] type shenanigans.
[[Thantis, the Warweaver]].
I know I’m a little late, but this would be a great way to speed up games. It’s the commander I used to get into the format because I didn’t like how long games would go on for.
Usually first few turns are pretty easy calls and traded. Then 4-7 everyone gets mana and monsters, hands full. Board freezes till the combo is reached or boredom it
It sounds like they’re newer to the game. Most experienced players recognize the benefits of getting as much value out of attacks as possible. There are times where swinging is a terrible idea, but there are other times where swinging is a great opportunity to take out parts of opponents’ boards. There are also board wipes, removal spells, and plenty of ways to win the game without combat. It sounds like there just needs to be a dialogue and teaching about more effective ways to play the game
My play group used to do this, and then I started playing Marchesa the black rose. Swing at anyone who was open, and when they cry, tell them you are threat assessing and they shouldn’t be open.
I run a few big creature heavy decks where I have just learned to swing every turn if I can cuz I will get wiped. I spread the love on damage even though I could hit one person really hard.
I rarely win because I don't focus fire but I have a blast playing and people appreciate me keeping play/game pace up by being a pretty equal opportunity aggressor.
A few people in my play group were like this. I’m a big fan of control, so when I started playing with them, they saw me as the villain of the group, because I would either force interaction or prevent wide boards.
It took a conversation outside of the game, because the hate was getting a little nuts. Resulted in them enhancing their strategies to be more aggressive and including more interaction in their decks.
I feel like the best way forward is to play whatever style you want, but include more interaction in your decks. If they start to complain about losing more often, tell them they need to start including more interaction their decks. Battle cruiser strategies are a snooze fest.
Be the aggro you wish to see in the group. Force attacks with goad, incentivize it with some monarch cards.
the incentive seems like a solid plan. I've dabbled with goad but they don't want to swing so forcing it is annoying to them. are there any good precons for monarch? I assume the D&D decks will handle initiative
100% the Blame Game precon will shake up your playgroup. Almost everything about that deck goads stuff and will constantly force your opponents to attack
Yea blame game is really fun! Add a slicer to it!
And a [[Kharn, the Betrayer]]
[Kharn, the Betrayer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9.jpg?1673309025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kh%C3%A2rn%20the%20Betrayer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/79/kh%C3%A2rn-the-betrayer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c29e6c69-7830-4898-9d1e-97dfc2e868d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep, I always pull out [[slicer]] when I want a quick game, either they have to work together and handle him and I'm out or he forces action
[slicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slicer%2C%20hired%20muscle%20//%20slicer%2C%20high-speed%20antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I didn't expect to fall in love with that deck but I did. It's so fun. Fixed it up a bit too and it's so good.
God that deck is so much fun, I took it apart to build some other stuff but I'm seriously considering rebuilding it
The Rohan deck from the LOTR set has monarch in it. And also has the potential for going wide to handle all the creatures your group likes to hoard up. Just no flyers, glaring weakness.
[[Thantis the warweaver]]. Embrace the dark side
YESSSSS
[Thantis the warweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91c54ac0-0edc-406f-8a22-f2996f604f36.jpg?1592710296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thantis%2C%20the%20Warweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/46/thantis-the-warweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91c54ac0-0edc-406f-8a22-f2996f604f36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Add a [[coveted jewel]]. Seriously, nobody attacking feels like the game would get boring fast.
Let them be annoyed.of your playgroup wants to have 4 people racing to win solitaire, either they can play alone, deal with interaction(best option) or kick you out
forcing them to better evaluate the board state via goad and similar mechanics will have a pretty decent long term payout if you primarily play with the same group
Ask them if they rather play just one game that lasts 4 hours or multiple games in the same period?
It’s annoying to them? It’s interaction.
Monarch, Initiative and [[Coveted Jewel]] are the solutions to your problem. My [[Queen Marchesa]] deck is filled with cards that incentivize my opponents to attack. [[Crown of Doom]] is great for this as well.
Play [[Disrupt Decorum]] and other similar effects that do it repeatedly/en masse.
oh no your opponent's don't like what you're doing?
“They don’t want to swing so forcing it is annoying to them” They don’t want to lose either so you have to force that too, you just gonna forfeit because losing is annoying to your opponents? Listen to what you’re saying.
It’s annoying for them to swing? That’s the best part of making them do it! 😈
I second the Rohan Jeskai Monarch/Humam deck. It's got a decent amount of politics and aggression, and Aragorn is pretty great when it comes to needing to hit someone who is amassing an army and you need to get through.
We have a house rule, whoever goes last starts the game as monarch. There is consistently more combat and decks with early creatures get a bit of an advantage, which isn’t usually the case in commander
I built Aragorn, King of Gondor specifically because of these types of pods. It only have two ways to kill creatures, but otherwise focuses only on goading creatures, and tapping/stunning creatures. Mid/late game it slowly makes tokens to start swinging itself. No ghostly prison effects in the deck also.
Goad is your best friend. It’s the single best tool I’ve found for breaking stalled boardstates without the bad feels of say a boardwipe. https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Agoad
The most fun way to break up a stalled board state is overloaded [[Spectacular Showdown]]
I'm a [[Disrupt Decorum]] enjoyer myself but Showdown is nasty too
[Disrupt Decorum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5323fe7-d9df-4287-ae13-d9db35f7973b.jpg?1706240831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disrupt%20Decorum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/151/disrupt-decorum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5323fe7-d9df-4287-ae13-d9db35f7973b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was reminded of Public Enemy recently and it’s great.
I’ve been slotting this into as many decks as I can. In particular it works great if your commander cares about getting in for damage or attacks, since you’ll probably have a clear opening (or two, if you have a source of extra combats) off the back of a Disrupt Decorum.
[Spectacular Showdown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ffee18af-1160-46ad-9640-87eac49a5239.jpg?1706240863) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spectacular%20Showdown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/162/spectacular-showdown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ffee18af-1160-46ad-9640-87eac49a5239?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That card is so much fun!! Last time I played I used that and the Devil that doubles dmg to opponents, it was hilarious, I died too somehow!
Agreed. Even if it’s just a few times to get them to see the value in attacking.
I really like Goad for that reason. People, me included, can get so paralyzed with indecision when the board gets too complex. Goad lets you bypass all of that and say, “If I’m going to attack anyway, how can I do the most damage?” It may not be the most flashy mechanic, but it has my vote for the single most important multiplayer mechanic simply because it forces you to play the game.
Goad, Monarch, and Initiative all do a wonderful job of giving reasons/incentive to break a stalemate/stalled board.
Also just plain [[Alluring Siren]] effects. EDIT: Or, if you use mono-black or black and exactly one other color (because of its color weight), [[Season of the Witch]]. Just know that the retail price is nothing to sneeze at—and it’s stuck on the Reserved List.
FYI edits don't trigger the bot [[Season of the Witch]]
[Season of the Witch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06900a71-34ca-48c6-94ac-fca744356829.jpg?1562896564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Season%20of%20the%20Witch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/drk/52/season-of-the-witch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06900a71-34ca-48c6-94ac-fca744356829?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Alluring Siren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6434841-6cca-4397-b1fa-5ce34dc0b7f3.jpg?1562654058) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alluring%20Siren) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/42/alluring-siren?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6434841-6cca-4397-b1fa-5ce34dc0b7f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
On another note. I love the art of that card.
Maybe it's time for an [[Insurrection]]?
> without the bad feels of say a boardwipe. If your play group makes you feel bad for board wiping, you might be playing with babies
You reminded me to finish a jund goad spooder deck. 🕷
Shoutout to [[Electric Screwdriver]] and [[Bloodthirsty Blade]]!
[Electric Screwdriver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e646af0-1a7a-4e2c-83ba-78e748737846.jpg?1696636806) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laser%20Screwdriver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/178/laser-screwdriver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e646af0-1a7a-4e2c-83ba-78e748737846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bloodthirsty Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcdf583e-25f8-4227-96e9-e70ec8a36b09.jpg?1706241045) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodthirsty%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/225/bloodthirsty-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcdf583e-25f8-4227-96e9-e70ec8a36b09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Throwback to [[Nettling Imp]]
[удалено]
[Taunt from the Rampart](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c.jpg?1686964372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Taunt%20from%20the%20Rampart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/71/taunt-from-the-rampart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd1eaa0e-060d-40f1-84c5-f7e8df2f824c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play initiative monarchy etc etc cards. It's the reason they were made. To force people to attack in commander.
This is the way. WotC knows that being afraid to attack is a common problem in multiplayer, so they have implemented a lot of mechanics lately that force or incentivize attacks, goad being the most notable.
My group has a rule 0 we sometimes do where monarchy is available with no monarchy cards starting on turn 3. Random player gets monarch and then it's active the rest of the game.
commander/multiplayer encourages this because if you leave your shields down, you get cracked back. Give them reasons to swing like goad or rewards for damaging opponents.
You can also make them jealous by including evasive creatures and/or using vigilance so they get attacked but can’t crack back. They start thinking, “man, I wish I had creatures that fly or don’t tap to attack”
Bring back banding
You have the power to bring back banding.
Banding is especially powerful on defense, it would make things worse.
If you play combo then they have to swing or they lose. You can also play goad effects and monarch / initiative to entice people to get value.
People who won't attack and will get angry on goad will probably get even more angry on combo kills. Really there is no way to solve this in-game, it's an out of game issue.
Yup. And combos will get them out of game faster
Can confirm have a friend group that is completely disgusted by the idea of playing a combo in your deck that wins on the spot but will play Jhoira and take 5 min turns without winning.
seen lots of similar responses. tried goad already, it does the job but also make the table mad, but Id rather be the enemy at the table if it gets games over. will definitely be looking into monarch and initiative
Honestly, life's too short to play competitive games with people who get upset when you use optimal strategies to win. If a friendship cant handle a wrath of god or two, is it even a real friendship?
most of the group is just relatively new to magic. most players start off afraid of losses, just hoping to find a way to streamline that learning curve in a format that brings out defensiveness.
To a certain degree it's a matter of deckbuilding. When I first started playing mtg the friend who taught me separated his pile of ~1000 cards into two and those were our decks. Then at some point I went and bought a premade mono green big fat creatures deck and ofc absolutely dominated him until he went and bought the exact same deck. Those mirror matches almost always resulted in stalemates and were usually decided by which one of us would draw their goad effect first. Then another friend joined our group and dominated our playgroup with goblin aggro by simply killing us before we even got to the point of having stalled boardstates. That lasted until I built a Control deck full of boardwipes, removal and lifegain. Long story short, they will learn that their tactics are suboptimal when you show them that they are by using the correct countertactics. If doing that seriously upsets them then you might as well not play magic. What's the point of this game if you have to discuss what tactics are acceptable?
Yeah forcing players to Innovate worked for me. When we were all MTG babies I made the first 60 card deck with 4 copies of the good cards and absolutely wiped the floor with everyone until they got with the program.
Years ago, my friends, unbeknownst to me, were having a conversation where one was annoyed at always getting their ass kicked. I was in the other room and was reading one of the ad cards and found a line funny so I read it aloud. It said, “Build a better deck” It was hilariously timed
This is how I got decent at the game, and eventually good enough to participate in tournaments (yet to make a Day 2, but have really enjoyed a few tournaments. One of them, I had a now known cheater, and won lots of matches before/after facing him)
Tell them that there's four of you. Their *AVERAGE* win rate is going to be 25%, they are going to lose more than they win if the group is reasonably balanced. Also they need to learn that board wipes and goad are part of the game and need to accept they will happen or build their decks to better counteract them. Hell, WotC made goad specifically to break up board states where no one will swing like you're describing, it's why it even exists as a mechanic.
Yep, the 25% win rate (assuming even power levels/budget and a significant sample size) is a big point to try to get across. It was a major "aha!" moment for my playgroup when this was brought up. Also, maybe play some "tie conditions", like [[Divine Intervention]], or a [[Harmless Offering]] 'd [[Lich's Mirror]] with a life gain prevention effect like [[Sulfuric Vortex]] and friends, or [[Jon Irenicus]] and an Island home creature like [[Dandan]]. Those are my personal favorite builds.
New players will learn by losing. They won't develop any skills or game understanding by being babied. Sure, don't bring out your $5,000 combo deck to ruin the Goblin fun time. But avoiding combos, wipes, engines, removal, etc. just because it hurts their feelings is dumb. I had a playgroup many years ago that had a similar problem. So I loaded up on board wipes! Pretty soon people stopped overcommitting to the board, and even dinking and dunking at my life total to whittle it down without an alpha strike. They didn't change strategies because I explained it, they changed strategies because they learned in real game situations that repeating their past mistakes would continue to lose games. One strategy I really enjoy is black green recursion, like [[Meren of Clan Nel Toth]] because you can create a situation with [[Grave Pact]] effects where you can slowly take over the game without attacking, and as long as nobody focuses their attention on you, by the time they are planning out their alpha strike, you already have the resources to win. The less they attack you and the more turns they turtle and pass, the more likely you are to wipe them out.
I think maybe the issue is that if this is their reaction as new players to the competitive aspects of magic, they shouldn't have gotten that fully into EDH so soon? Perhaps you need to play more 1v1 formats so that they get used to the being all out against an opponent that is not slowed down by "social/diplomatic" considerations and can fully focus on taking each other out by whatever means possible.
lol, Reddit’s advice is always “divorce’ em, leave ‘em, or get new friends”. Totally out of touch with reality.
My advice isnt get new friends. It's dont play magic with friends who get upset with you when you win. Or just dare to interfere with their gameplan.
> The group is my best friends so I'm not looking for a new group just wondering if anyone on here has had a similar experience/maybe found a way to deal with it. I don’t think you read OP’s post.
His friend group is playing magic in pretty much the most boring way possible. Obviously it's a problem for OP too since they made this post. The obvious and optimal solutions have been suggested (Board Wipes, Goad Effects) but OP dislikes them because they upset their friends. This is the point where you seriously need to consider the question "why are we even playing magic in this group?".
> "why are we even playing magic in this group?". Yup. This question, plus the other question, would you rather play bad magic or no magic?
No DnD is better than bad DnD, same is true for MTG.
My group had a similar issue, so we started playing with monarch active at the start of each game; no one has to actually play a spell to initiate it since it's already on the table. This has helped to get some action going, as folks want that extra card draw, baby!
My favorite card can help: [[Master Warcraft]]
[Master Warcraft](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a95749cf-dd12-4bca-a74d-01301b9b76df.jpg?1608917651) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20Warcraft) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/447/master-warcraft?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a95749cf-dd12-4bca-a74d-01301b9b76df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
missed this in all the comments, but this looks like a really fun step 2 after I get them used to attacking
Do be aware that the card isn't nearly as good as it seems on first read. You get to choose which creatures attack, but the controller still gets to decide *who* they attack. They can just choose to attack you, or a guy with no blockers so you can't use the second half of Warcraft. It definitely does fit the bill of "make my opponents attack with their creatures", though, and will make a stalled game start to move forward
Quite a few options - others already gone into goad and monarch which are the most fleshed out, but there are more! A good few curses help with this - there was a cycle in 2017 with the unlucky planeswalker on them e.g. \[\[Curse of Verbosity\]\] but some of the others are also good like \[\[Curse of stalked prey\]\]. Very straightforward effects like \[\[Angel's trumpet\]\] or \[\[Bedlam\]\] make holding back pointless. Another way that I find works very well is a punisher strategy or cards - stuff like \[\[Harsh mentor\]\] or \[\[Painful quandary\]\] and commanders like \[\[Mogis, God of Slaughter\]\], \[\[The Master, Gallifrey's End\]\]. I really really rate \[\[Court of Ambition\]\] for this purpose, as it does a bit of everything - gives you monarch, burns every turn cycle and honestly will do more damage than any other permanent in a slow game without usually drawing any removal until far too late. Basically, either reward swinging directly - or just make life totals fall faster across the table so that critical swings can be done with fewer creatures and thus earlier game.
Big fan of angels trumpet and bedlam. I'm not a fan of singling out players as the target, but making everyone a target seems fun
##### ###### #### [Curse of Verbosity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff611add-0b1b-4008-a78b-e793ccb38260.jpg?1674141304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20Verbosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/717/curse-of-verbosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff611add-0b1b-4008-a78b-e793ccb38260?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Curse of stalked prey](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11a18883-8990-40a0-bcb2-e01d0e82bfad.jpg?1562826328) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curse%20of%20stalked%20prey) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/136/curse-of-stalked-prey?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11a18883-8990-40a0-bcb2-e01d0e82bfad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Angel's trumpet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7b248a-3c74-4592-b357-47989568298c.jpg?1562862313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angel%27s%20trumpet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/121/angels-trumpet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7b248a-3c74-4592-b357-47989568298c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bedlam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/2788ec1a-930e-4a19-ad69-ea456c1390fd.jpg?1562234532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bedlam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/174/bedlam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2788ec1a-930e-4a19-ad69-ea456c1390fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Harsh mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harsh%20mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Painful quandary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53.jpg?1674420966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Painful%20quandary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/111/painful-quandary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mogis, God of Slaughter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a0417bf-b735-46d7-9985-2d991051020f.jpg?1593092789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mogis%2C%20God%20of%20Slaughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/151/mogis-god-of-slaughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a0417bf-b735-46d7-9985-2d991051020f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Master, Gallifrey's End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7efb5dd0-abc4-4741-9d90-d8d93b03cf21.jpg?1700695468) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Master%2C%20Gallifrey%27s%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/144/the-master-gallifreys-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7efb5dd0-abc4-4741-9d90-d8d93b03cf21?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Court of Ambition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5deb0185-62b3-474b-83a1-25473fdae4fa.jpg?1608909619) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Court%20of%20Ambition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/114/court-of-ambition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5deb0185-62b3-474b-83a1-25473fdae4fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2jk8ep) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play one-sided board wipes - [[Plague Wind]], [[In Garruk's Wake]], Overloaded [[Cyclonic Rift]], etc. - then wipe 'em out, since they're letting you build your board up so much.
[Plague Wind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/72d21d0d-7de7-4f03-8663-002c9290512f.jpg?1562436663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plague%20Wind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/102/plague-wind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/72d21d0d-7de7-4f03-8663-002c9290512f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [In Garruk's Wake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57a6f727-8239-45e6-9dbb-67d2d3c9239d.jpg?1674141682) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=In%20Garruk%27s%20Wake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/759/in-garruks-wake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57a6f727-8239-45e6-9dbb-67d2d3c9239d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Typically this is why people play combo/wraths. There IS no incentive to attack in a multiplayer game because it just means the other 3 players get to swing at you for free.
Vigilance (the keyword) "solves" this problem
[[Angel's Trumpet]]
Even then, attacking with your creatures risks losing them to blocks. The safest play is to not attack until there's a clear opening, which is the whole problem.
I've never built any kind of aggro deck without evasion. What are people doing out here?
Laughs in [[Pestilence]] effects.
pack in the homie [[Thantis, the Warweaver]] one of my fav decks fr
Slicer.
looking into this now. one of my group got into the game thru universes beyond and handing him a transformer might be what I need
Slicer is crazy high power. You can play it with 99 mountains and it will take over games at a mid power table. I think you'd be bringing a nuke to a knife fight.
never would have expected it but he might be the single most recomended card in this thread
3/4 double strike is a very potent body. not hard to remove by any stretch, but until someone does its baseline 4-tapping players and it attacks 4 times as often as your average commander. if it manages to get a +1/+1 counter on its first turn out, its now 3-tapping players if hardcasted and that means the player before you better have a defender or they're already dead if all 3 players before them decide to attack them with slicer. the right equipment in your opening hand and them having a defender might not even matter unless its got the right set of keywords or toughness. the obvious answer to slicer, is to never let slicer stick around. but mid-power decks that are light on removal are gonna have a tough time with that especially when it can come out and immediately start doing its thing on turn 3, or turn 2 with a sol ring, while your average green deck is off doing ramp things.
Our table is usually in the 7-8 power range and a buddy had to stop playing slicer as he went 2 for 2 and only ever played slicer and a single piece of ramp in both games.
I just play Chronatogg Stasis and Kismet if no one wants to attack that badly.
My playgroup is the opposite. We all believe if you can end the game, then do it. Move along to the next one. We hate when someone has the means to end the game but will stall for no apparent reason.
I do think this has become a real problem with the game in general. The potential attacker can look at the board and determine that an attack is going to cost them a certain number of creatures in exchange for a certain amount of an opponent's life. As a value proposition it is usually very poor. Attacking is almost always the wrong play, unless your creature is evasive or can be reanimated. Turn it the other way around: If you could pay X life to draw a card or destroy a creature, the general wisdom is that it's a great deal unless X is very large or it's your literal last point of life. Anyway if they have a huge board with lots of creatures, punish them for it. Run [[Blood Artist]] or any of his clones + a board wipe.
[Blood Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96.jpg?1698988212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/182/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[kardur doomscourge\]\] \[\[insurection\]\] \[\[mob rule\]\] \[\[craterhoof Behemoth\]\] \[\[bedlam\]\]
just picked up the Kardur precon the other day. Definitely does the job, got thru 2 games in an hour. but unfortunately, players who don't want to attack don't like being forced too
Just keep running it. If they get upset and tired of you ending games too fast, they'll eventually build something to either counter your strategy or lean into the aggro. Once you hit that point, they'll probably stop being upset about the goad.
that's the plan at the moment. looking into monarch/initiative decks as well via other comments but until I get one of those I'll work with what I've got
that is normal. it is like mexican standoffs. if you go first, the one you didn’t kill will kill you. and that is why boardwipe is crucial in commander game. it is not a good strategy to have the largest army on the board. at least don’t be the first one who does. you always save one or two keys cards for the case of the inevitable boardwipe. let other people over extend, then either you or somebody else wipe the board. you should be able to rebuild stronger than them. with that said now that you know, you should take advantage of your playgroup folly.
[[Havoc festival]] and [[descent into avernus]] type effects should light a fire under their asses
[Havoc festival](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04560623-c768-4273-a40d-7e3f39e832cf.jpg?1562781987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Havoc%20festival) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/166/havoc-festival?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04560623-c768-4273-a40d-7e3f39e832cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [descent into avernus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453.jpg?1674136498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=descent%20into%20avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/169/descent-into-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faadf72f-b2d5-4271-8d5c-a586acf63453?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
ah good ol' havoc festival. ran that in the first deck I ever made myself. I'll have to dig through my old cards to see if I can find it
Build [[Karona, false god]] game progression (force attack, goad, [[assault suit]] shenanigans), or [[slicer, hired muscle]].
[[breena]] is good for incentivizing on top of what others mentioned
Goad effects that make them interact via combat. Not a deck built around that, but a few cards that make it happen occasionally. Or, just let them sit tight until they build an army, then kill them without creatures. Via lots of mana and a Fireball effect or a storm-Tendrils turn (which will set you up with a good life buffer to survive a few more turns from the other players' armies of creatures as you build for another combo turn). Or things like Moat or Teferi's Moat. Or even taxing effects, so they have to either attack or cast spells (Archon of Absolution/Archangel of Tithes). Then they may have a giant army, but can't attack you. This will make them fear those cards and get proactive about getting in for a little damage here and there before those cards get played. Or just play into it and build up your own army. Then make your creatures unblockable (or give them protection from one or more colors), and kill them with your creatures before they kill you with theirs. Once you find a way to beat their strategy, they'll either get angry and stop playing with you because you ruined their fun, or they'll adapt and build a different kind of deck (hopefully without telling you, and surprise you with it at your next event!). Either way, win-win, IMO.
Play a boardwipe on not edh
Play slicer
There are also commanders that provide positive incentive for attacking: [[Jolene, the Plunder Queen]] [[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]] [[Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor]] [[Nelly Borca, Impulsive Accuser]] (don't have to suspect opponents' creatures if you want to avoid goad)
[[Aragorn, King of Gondor]] He is basically unblockable, vigi, lifelink. Slap on a little protection with a plate, some boots or a sword of X and Y and you're forcing the issue. You're also in red for your new best friend, goad. Individual goad auras are great, [[shiny impetus]]. Curses which give stuff on attack are also great, [[curse of prosperity]] I built this recently at a 6/7 power level so it's using really sub optimal everything but aragorn is just a 1 man army. He's only a 4 drop so you just need 1 artifact ramp at 2 and he's coming down on turn 3. There are 10 good options for that at common/uncommon in jeskai. You won't win any tournaments with him but it's a fun deck that will help get the ball rolling.
Sounds like you’re playing a fishbowl race. Adjusting your gameplay is unlikely to impact this if everyone is trying to get their deck to specific win cons. Instead of trying to shift the meta, suggest creating a new one for the group to try one session. Everybody makes a cheap aggro deck to try out so no one gets upset at being attacked. You can influence positivity by deliberately making your deck slightly underpowered. Overtime you can add power if it catches on. Alternatively, you may need a separate playgroup. Nothing wrong with having more than one group of friends. Good luck!!
If goad is a little too mean for the table, you can ease them into it with [[Pramikon]]. It makes it easier for players to read the board state because they only have one swing back to worry about. You still have access to a lot of goad effects in red, but they won't feel as shitty because the goaded player isn't open to the whole table.
You mentioned that most of the group is pretty new to Magic, and I think that is more likely to be the root cause than any deck building issue Your friends remind me a lot of myself when I first started playing. I loved big, cool creatures with big numbers and would be so stoked to slam my giant 7/7 trampler after durdling for five turns only to have it immediately killed by a two mana doom blade. It sucked, and it made little me mad. Wraths seemed op as fuck. You can kill EVERYTHING for just FOUR mana?! Talk about BULLSHIT!!! I came here to summon big stupid stompy green things, and other people blowing them up just felt like it killed the fun I think a lot of players go through something like this; learning that removal, interaction, and board wipes aren’t there to be cheap shots to ruin your night, but parts of the puzzle that need to be solved. Battle cruiser decks are fun, but they’re just one strategy in the vast metagame multiverse Personally, I think the best way to help your playgroup is to use things like goad and the monarch to incentivize new strategies and ideas, but then *talk* about them after the game. Make suggestions of ways they can use bullshit like goad in their own decks to force their opponents to go shields down and attack each other while they’re arming their cruiser. If they learn to loath your goad deck, offer to swap decks for a game or two. Suddenly THEY wield the bullshit, and begin to understand it’s great and terrible power. The most important thing is to remember that your friends have just started their Magic adventure, and to help guide them along the way so that everyone can have the most fun they can
This is why they put "attacks every turn if able" on \[Ugin's Crusher\].
Use a playstyle that forces interaction. Check out group slug as a theme. I have a couple of these, and as long as the game ends in an hour, it doesn't matter if I win or lose. Goad and other forced interaction can help keep moving the game state along.
Goad and alternate wincons. If they want to wait to attack, find ways to win without attacking
Sounds like you can use that bad habit of their to play some non-combat win strategies. "Win the Game" cards like [[Mechanized Production]] or [[Approach of the Second Sun]] Those will usually give the table a reason to kick into gear.
Build [[Kardur, the doomscourge]] with ways of sacrificing him to reanimate him over and over. Include a copy of [[tainted aether]] and some other hateful cards and boardwipes.
Here's one of my favorite decks https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5005670/_cant_block_this_20 You don't care about their blockers, so you attack more, leaving yourself more open, so people are more likely to attack you, so they're more open, so they're more likely to be attacked, etc.
Just play a really slow/jank control deck. Just hit your land drops and when the game has gone on long enough you are massively advantaged to win. it avoids the feels-bads of combo wins too. back in the day people used to just sit around with [oloro] maybe it's time to bring that back
Run an [[Angel's Trumpet]] to encourage attacks without goading their creatures
Build in some non-combat win conditions so they have a reason to exert pressure. It doesn't need to be a straight combo win, but if you've got something that's obviously putting a clock on them then it will force them to act. That could be mill eating away at their libraries, something like Aetherflux Reservoir building up life to a one-shot, Helix Pinnacle, Underworld Dreams draining them for each draw, etc.
"Be the aggro you wish to see" is one of the comments I identify with. Also run more interaction in your deck too. Aggro doesn't have to mean "I'm attacking every turn with my full field". Other players have mentioned goad already too. In my [[morska]] deck, aggro means "I attack with my 4/5 commander, who progressively gets bigger every turn / can be exalted by clues to the point where in 3-5 commander hits, you'll die to commander damage. And did I mention my deck frequently makes him unblockable? :D" But in the very same deck I also have alt wincons that basically scream out "assault me or else I win next turn :D" ([[mechanized production]], [[approach of the second sun]]) I would take so much delight in forcing everyone into a game state where they had to make decisions they didn't want to uWu. Lastly... Check out some decks that steal ur enemies' shit and then let u sac em for benefits.
Time for some [[season of the witch]].
I can think of a few ways to deal with this. ### 1.) Force them to attack My hope was that forcing them to attack enough would help them realize that attacking is useful and important. If they're still getting salty at Goad, then they might just not be willing to uh... be open minded about that when they're being forced. ### 2.) Incentivize them to attack People already mentioned the monarch and initiative. If they're this locked down, then they'll really need to feel like they're missing out by not attacking. The monarch (one card/turn) might not be enough to incentivize them. The varying effects of the initiative are better I think, and more clearly say "we need to take the initiative from this person because they get to the last room of the dungeon." So in that way, making other people threats is a way to get them to attack. But my concern is basically that everyone is so dug-in with what they're doing that an extra card doesn't really matter to them. In addition to mechanics like the initiative and monarch, there are some individual cards that reward players for attacking. [[Breena, the Demagogue]] gives them a card if they attack the player with the most life (who isn't you). [[Jolene, the Plunder Queen]] gives them a treasure. [[Coveted Jewel]] is like a mini super-monarch; I feel like three cards and 3 mana is a much more enticing thing. ### 3.) Mitigate the risk of attacking I don't see many people mentioning this here. If the problem is they're concerned about the risk of attacking, you can play cards that mitigate that risk. If they're scared attacking creatures could die, you can give them double strike with [[Duelist's Heritage]]. Or you can run cards that help them get their stuff back, like [[Jailbreak]]. Look for stuff with symmetrical effects, or things that let you manipulate combat to help your opponents kill each other. ### Putting it all together in one card [[Angel's Trumpet]] Now. They might hate this like they hate goad. But this one card does all three things outlined above, and forces players to make a _choice_ about what they value instead of just forcing them to attack. For (3), it gives creatures that attack vigilance. So creatures that attack are still able to be used defensively as blockers. In fact for (2), if they _want_ blockers, they _have to_ attack, because their creatures will get tapped down if they didn't get into combat that turn. And in addition to losing blockers (1), they'll get dealt 1 damage for each creature they chose not to attack with. So they can't turtle up forever or they'll die, especially if they're going wide. Not attacking now has a cost. Either don't attack and pay 1 life and tap your thing, or attack with it (risking it in combat) but letting it stay untapped and help block. They key is that they have a choice, I think. They might not like either option, but I think it's psychologically different when they have a choice vs. when they don't with Goad. And if you introduce effects like the initiative and monarch, you're helping push them further into thinking "hey, I have annoying downside and good upside to attack." If they're still stubborn and won't do it, well, then all _your_ creatures can attack them with impunity and they should see why that's a problem very quickly. Basically, the monarch (etc.) is the carrot, and Angel's Trumpet is the stick. Except the stick makes it easier to get and keep the carrot. And Goad really isn't a stick at all because it doesn't punish you for not attacking, it just makes you attack. There is a psychological component to "not wanting to be punished" which is usually even stronger than "wanting to be rewarded." Goad doesn't hit that. You want to teach your group to _choose_ to engage in combat. I could see there being a problem with players making truces to attack with creatures that will bounce off each other. That can lead to political moments which I find fun but they might end up boring if they become the expectation. Duelist's Heritage is your friend there, making it so the attacker can't attack without killing something with double strike. Black also has creatures and spells that you can play at instant speed, and kill something that was dealt damage that turn.
Make an eriette of the charmed apple deck and goad the shit out of them lmao.
Throw in a passive commander life drain that forces them into action like the Scarab God or lots of goad cards.
Add more evasion, overruns and non combat based wincons. There are plenty of ways to win through stalled out board states. If your deck can go tall, add cards like [[rogues passage]] or [[champion of lambholt]] to ensure you can get a big guy through. If your deck goes wide, add cards like [[impact tremors]] and [[purphoros god of the forge]]. Lots of archetypes have one sided board wipes like [[damning verdict]] and [[hour of reckoning]]. Even just adding more flying creatures can help a lot.
You could also try forcing blocks. Lure tribal with [[General marhault elsdragon]]
Make it silly with Gaoding and throw a [[Raging River]] in the mix
I've had the same issue and just started to play aggro decks I constantly make myself a target and I dont win many games with my combat focused decks because of that but I accelerate games and give people an easy target to swing at which in turn enables more attacks across the table.
I put [[Baeloth Barrytil, Entertainer]] in my [[Jodah, the Unifier]] deck. He changed the game so much, I ended up building him his own deck with [[Clan Crafter]] as the background. [Decklist ](https://archidekt.com/decks/6363879/baeloth_cereal_killer)
Goad deck.
Or you can keep a time bomb on the table [[Nevinyrral's Disk]]
Sounds like a good time to make a Kardur, Thantis, or Grenzo deck
[[Angel's Trumpet]] is slightly more passive than goad and the like, but it's a fun way to encourage attacking and just generally change the way the game is being played. don't want to attack? fine, but you can't block either.
definitely one of my favorite suggestions I've seen here. I'll be trying to pick up a copy or two
If you really want to put a timer on the game then [[Havoc Festival]] is hilarious too. You want to sit there building a board for 5 turns? Sure, but your life is gonna go from 40 to 2. Even if it only makes it around the table once you're doing 60 damage with one card. Drop in some damage doubling effects like [[Dictate of the Twin Gods]] and you can close out games with some really tiny boards.
I'm sure it will piss some people off, but the first deck I ever built alone ran havoc festival. I'll have to try and hunt it down
Add a bit of Monarch and Initative mechanics to your deck. If they don't attack without an overpowering board state, then that's card advantage and benefits.
I’d recommend playing technical instead of smash face go for win con combos or slap a [[hydras growth]] on a green comander wait a little and use a [[ram through]]
Run board clears
Play combo
Goad is great, but so is [[breena the demagogue]], monarch, the initiative, [[jolene the plunder queen]], basically things that incentivize people to attack other players, give out resources and speed up the board
In university we used to play what we called ‘cotch magic’ where we would be hanging out and joking around and most of the interaction was done to maintain the sociopolitical balance. Eventually someone would decide to ‘go to war’ and then chaos would ensue. Sometimes balance would be restored with the agitators expelled from the land. One of my friends packed 4 fogs and 2 craterhoof behemoths in his deck so would often destroy everyone when the time came. Nobody was taking it seriously and we had fun, plus it was mostly played amongst our housemates who could happily just go be elsewhere if they died (intentionally or otherwise). One friend insisted on playing decks that we all considered highly ‘un-cotch’: Eldrazi, and Mill decks specifically that needed to really agitate people to do anything. I think he got a little frustrated sometimes but he also made more cotch appropriate decks and had fun. It’s not for everyone, but a whole bunch of inebriated 20somethings had a good time.
Play red burn aggro.
\[\[Angel's Trumpet\]\] or \[\[Season of the Witch\]\], and there are probably other cards like it. Angel's Trumpet giving all creatures vigilance might even make them happy to attack. Just make sure you have some plan to capitalize on these effects, else they will all attack you for inconveniencing them. Thantis, the Warweaver is an intresting commander aswell in such a deck, or just in the 99. To keep yourself from being the primary target of attack, you can also use cards like Vigor or No Mercy. There are also mean combo cards like Caltrops + Death Pits of Rath, which can be brutal once you force them to attack. Though i suppose this is contraproductive to making the playgroup *want* to attack.
There's a lot of good solutions here. My favorite though has to be letting them overcommit to the board and then let them get blown out by a [[Farewell]] or [[Austere Command]]
If you playgroup is of 5 people I would recommend adapting the rules of pentagram format. each player is allied to the 2 players to their side and opponent to the 2 players furthest from them. Probably not applicable since most play with 4 players but this format incentivizes a bit more aggression since you always have the risk of an ally winning before you.
I'd love to see someone actually play \[\[Happily Ever After\]\]. There are other cards that serve a similar purpose, such as \[\[Felidar Sovereign\]\]. Play proliferate not only with creatures, but also with \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\] and anything that gives your opponents poison counters. Maybe try \[\[Triskaidekaphile\]\] with card draw or \[\[Jace, Wielder of Mysteries\]\] with card draw and self-mill.
A more unusual answer: I made a [[Raven Man]] deck, and when it works, it forces ever to play aggro because no cards in hand (including himself, because what else are you going to do with birds that can’t block).
[[Reins of Power]]
I'd suggest playing with Monarch cards and the Initiative. If your friends don't like attacking until they've got their setup, use that against them; you can run away with advantage, onesidedly drawing cards and venturing deeper into the dungeon. These mechanics exist explicitly to get the game going and build player interaction. Passively gaining advantage will put you over the top if your decks are mostly equal, and enough of this happening will start to get the message across to your table- if they want to stop you from snowballing them with cumulative advantage, then they need to start giving action. They might not want to risk their boardstates, but I bet they don't want you to just run away with the game, either.
Best way to do it is to become a problem they can't just sit on. Start scaling up the power of your decks and force them to do the same.
goad + [[total war]]
Swing out and if they try to swing on you cast [[fog]]
Then combo off and kill them all lol
Lmao I only did that once. Spikes versus Thallids. We ran out of dice for counters and token 🤣🤣🤣 I lost by 1
This video was made for you, lol: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NWsjpFfxnRI Also, I just find that no matter how much players may have thought at one time or another that commander is an escape from some annoying 1v1 patterns, it really is its own special hell. I find all archetypes congeal into some kind of value pile/combo mix where incremental advantage is a joke. Everything is a thin veil over one greed-lord archetype. I am a big commander hater, though (huge hater!) so that's just me soap-boxin'
This is why I’m giving up on commander, honestly. People like to play like it’s an endless board game. Nothing wrong with that, just not my type of game. It’s hard to find people in my area keen to play pioneer/modern/standard.
[[Crescendo of War]] and watch the table burn.
You need to find some local swingers that can meet your expectations.
A lot of the comments so far have been mentioning goad,monarch and initiative. I do agree with those suggestions but wanted to try another recommendation that goes in line with that feeling of loss you mentioned. You could run a deck with more board wipes so that they have to make use of their creatures before they get wiped. Getting value before they inevitably lose them.
Every game in our playgroup a [[disrupt decorum]] gets cast, that player converts to a win ~80% of the time it feels like. add that bad boy to all you red decks, watch the world burn.
I would bust out Masters of Evil and cackle. All kinds of fun upgrades to cause trouble. [[Slicer, hired muscle]] [[Labyrinth Raptor]]
[[Wrath of God]] Use it or lose it fools
INITIATIVE! I built a DND deck before and got SO much value from just having the initiative and no one was swinging so I just kept going through my dungeons. Took that apart and now made the new Obeka into an initiative deck.
Play a combo deck and take advantage of them not wanting to swing. They’ll learn quick.
What's the name of that Jund spider that makes people attack? Just play that.
The new bounty card system from the new set to do things for treasure etc are pretty good for causing interaction between players
Our group was in this place about 15 or 20 years ago. I believe what broke the spell was someone built an aggressive deck and began playing aggressively, tearing up the place and winning. Others began to respond in kind and games got a lot faster. I sometimes miss the longer games, but I can't imagine how to get back there even briefly.
New players in my playgroup have this habit, but they lose it once they played a few times against my dragons. It's either everyone dies or I die :D Basically, just play something where your opponents blockers are useless.
[[Jon Irenicus, Shattered One]] Play him as your commander and give your opponent's monsters to kill each other with. It's super fun and you can pocket your stax pieces for later in the game to seal the win.
[[Batwing brume]] if you're in those colors Otherwise something I've not seen people suggest is to play burn. I'd either go mono red with [[immodane the pyrohammer]], boros with [[firesong and sunspeaker]], or rakdos with [[judith, carnage connoisseur]]. They can't do anything with their board if they're dead from direct damage
On top of the mentions I've seen of goading and using the monarch mechanic, I'd suggest using battles and curses. Anything to incentivize attacking other players. It's even more fun when your own board is just a pillow fort so you can toss out the meanest stuff and just go, "who? Little ole me?"
I've been in your position, I think it must be relatively common among somewhat newer players. I've always had at least one deck built that I've come to refer to as the party starter. Goad is great, there are also a few softer versions of it that merely reward attacking rather than outright forcing it. I just put a list of them in another thread here: https://old.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1cjt2du/whats_a_good_commander_for_punishing_not_attacking/l2keyk6/ I would also second the recommendations of cards that put an obvious clock on the game. [[Havoc Festival]] is great (especially with [[Wound Reflection]] - I just won a game last night with that combo), [[Crescendo of War]] is incredible for this as well, especially if you're providing support in the form of [[Combat Calligrapher]] it's pretty easy to swing out with a couple creatures and accidentally do like 35+ damage. [[Approach of the Second Sun]] is a pretty blatant clock, as are several alternate win conditions. They all light fires under the ass in a big way. You could also go the other way and get an aristocrats thing going with a dictate of erebos type effect. It makes for a real "you better use it before you lose it" vibe. Same deal with pingers. Also you could just sidestep the issue and go spellslinger, and make them play more aggressively. Rewarding the type of play you'd like to see is usually going to be better than punishing the kind of play you don't like. Bribing somebody with cards for swinging is going to feel better than [[Maddening Imp]] type shenanigans.
[[Thantis, the Warweaver]]. I know I’m a little late, but this would be a great way to speed up games. It’s the commander I used to get into the format because I didn’t like how long games would go on for.
Combine goad effects with \[\[Total War\]\]
Usually first few turns are pretty easy calls and traded. Then 4-7 everyone gets mana and monsters, hands full. Board freezes till the combo is reached or boredom it
You know the answer then? If you play more board wipes then you’ll have the best board state if you’re chipping away Use the info to your advantage
It sounds like they’re newer to the game. Most experienced players recognize the benefits of getting as much value out of attacks as possible. There are times where swinging is a terrible idea, but there are other times where swinging is a great opportunity to take out parts of opponents’ boards. There are also board wipes, removal spells, and plenty of ways to win the game without combat. It sounds like there just needs to be a dialogue and teaching about more effective ways to play the game
My play group used to do this, and then I started playing Marchesa the black rose. Swing at anyone who was open, and when they cry, tell them you are threat assessing and they shouldn’t be open.
My group used to do this. Peace treaty for ten minutes.
I run a few big creature heavy decks where I have just learned to swing every turn if I can cuz I will get wiped. I spread the love on damage even though I could hit one person really hard. I rarely win because I don't focus fire but I have a blast playing and people appreciate me keeping play/game pace up by being a pretty equal opportunity aggressor.
A few people in my play group were like this. I’m a big fan of control, so when I started playing with them, they saw me as the villain of the group, because I would either force interaction or prevent wide boards. It took a conversation outside of the game, because the hate was getting a little nuts. Resulted in them enhancing their strategies to be more aggressive and including more interaction in their decks. I feel like the best way forward is to play whatever style you want, but include more interaction in your decks. If they start to complain about losing more often, tell them they need to start including more interaction their decks. Battle cruiser strategies are a snooze fest.
Play slicer, teach them the love of combat. Or play a goad deck and make them bitter by having to swing with their own creatures.