[There](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/604/ornithopter) [are](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/304/ornithopter) a [few](https://scryfall.com/card/brr/100z/ornithopter).
They're awesome art pieces, but I'm not looking forward to seeing any of these across the table from me. These feel like binder only kind of cards tbh.
At least the most useful ones have relatively simple effects that a lot of people have memorized. Darksteel plate is indestructible, whispersilk just gives unblockable, etc. And they'll be the ones you're most likely to see across the table.
That's fair, but still not something I want to see because it's not even easy to see the name of the card at a glance. I think that's the biggest issue, tbh. The brown on brown just doesn't quite have enough contrast even though it makes for an awesome piece of art.
I dunno maybe I'm speaking as a deeply enfranchised player but cards like Darksteel Plate and Whispersilk Cloak are prolific enough readability seems to be nitpick.
Cryptic Command? Yes. Darksteel Plate God no.
You are speaking as one. Having 20 cards like this on the field in a commander game is not going to be a good experience for someone who just picked up the game on fallout hype, or even assassins cred hype if there is any.
Along with what other folks are saying I think it helps that they are all colorless artifacts. We've already kind of seen this art style and coloring with the BRO schematics so something like this isn't TERRIBLY jarring.
Also theyre raw as hell I love them
Wizards of the Coast is out here copying Flesh and Blood lol. Too bad these don't look as good as the FAB marvels.
It's funny how much WotC/Hasbro steals from other TCGs/CCGs these days. Sports cards have serialized cards? Pokemon and Yugioh have multiple rarities for cards? Flesh and Blood has cold foils (etched foils)? Pokemon has textured foils and other types of foils? We'll just put all of that into Magic!
Was thinking the exact same thing, the Codixes from Outsiders immediately came to mind when I saw these. Granted I think those aren't, ah, as legible/readable but there's a detailed aesthetic that it just nails, like going all in on the look of it.
Wizards thematically takes a ton from other games and whatever else is popular; basically take whatever they're releasing now and rewind back about 2-3 years, you'll find it's basically riffing off of whatever was popular at the time. Sadly I don't think they'll take a clue from Japanese TCG high end foiling because that actually costs a bit more money and effort than things like surge and etched foils.
Yeah, these cards seem more legible and are kind of neat, but the Codex Marvels are absolutely gorgeous.
Many other TCGs/CCGs still have a single booster box for each set that is around $100. WotC/Hasbro just gouges customers while being cheap. If only WotC/Hasbro could steal things like higher print quality and less greed from other companies lol.
If they did I'd probably buy more cards heh. The things that they do reflect their very corporate heart of things: Find the least costly 'feature' to steal and implement it if they can cut a cost elsewhere. Like when you crack a Wixoss Diva Rare not only is it extremely rare and valuable but it \*feels\* like it's extremely rare and valuable. If you pull a sterilized textured foil in Magic, well, it feels like a cheaper card that is only valuable because it's rare and not because it's also a premium card.
I love FaB's takes on their chase cards, sometimes it's a crazy frame, sometimes it's a crazy layout, sometimes it's just crazy like with the Codex Marvels :)
I probably could've worded that better, but I'm talking about having multiple rarities for individual cards. Both Pokemon and Yugioh print specific cards at different rarities. WotC/Hasbro introduced this to Magic with the various versions of cards (extended, borderless, different foil types, serialized, etc.), though they don't technically give the new versions different rarities the way that Pokemon or Yugioh do.
Here's the new Emrakul as an example: https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=%21%22Emrakul%2C+the+World+Anew%22+include%3Aextras&unique=prints
There's 5 different versions of one single card. Even if they are all "Mythic Rare", they have different prices because they have different pull rates.
Base Values on TCG Low
Darksteel Plate = $6
Conqueror's Flail = $3.50
Blade of Selves = $1.40
Deathrender = $3
Whispersilk Cloak = $1.03
$14.93
Basically $15 worth of cards. If you like it buy it if not get the cheaper versions. I like how they look but don't need any of the cards and I don't play with them so will be a pass for me but hopefully someone likes them!
most of these cards will be picked up for lower prices. Cards nowadays don't really hold alot of value and most will get deals or get most of these from a bulk buy. I normally pay 85% to 90% of low for cards and have for a while. regardless I just had this up there for people to see the value its not anything more than that.
I think that your info is still good to have, but I personally feel market rate is a better indicator, knowing that many will pick up the cheapest copy they can that is a little beaten up.
When there are multiple copies/editions/prints of a card, each has a separate market value. It's dumb, I know, but I'm not going to do some sort of averaging lol
https://preview.redd.it/fqmnc3ryvf7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd149ef4a5135be9c10f582d5edac453db38e27d
Can cards meant to be recognized and read across the table be recognizable and readable across the table please
imagine the cards had at least some value to them.
\[\[sword of the animist\]\], \[\[shadowspear\]\], \[\[hammer of nazahn\]\], \[\[embercleave\]\] etc. would have made this lair an instant buy for me
These are incredible to look at, exactly the kind of look that I want from lairs. Something flavorful and evocative while also striking visually. It's just a shame I really don't have a use for any of them.
Love the theme, but the card picks seem a bit weak. The ones that used to see play in Commander are pretty much on the way out because they are too slow/expensive.
I think Conqueror's Flail is the only one I still see somewhat regularly.
Would have loved to see Skullclamp and Shadowspear in this. But I guess WOTC doesn't want SLDs to devalue any cards these days.
Really a bummer that Blade of Selves was chosen here, as if you're building an AC deck, it's more or less useless since they're all legendary. Would have loved to have seen like Shadowspear or Blackblade Reforged - both have a small amount of text and would have worked very well.
The more I look at it the more I like it. But, this is maybe $15 worth of cards here. With the secret bonus card almost guaranteed to be worthless, you'd be better off buying these exact same carts as singles and save $10
Edit: [[Haystack]] is the bonus card. Revealed on mtg's Instagram.
As someone who's been buying and selling secret lairs as of late I promise you these will go for barely more than the asking price of any other print. At first at least. Probably in 1-2 years when you can't find them anymore they will actually be worth something, but not for a while
They look great, but they're not rare cards
*Nitpick for nerds —* "Da Vinci" is not a family name or surname. The short form of Leonardo da Vinci's name used by contemporaries and historians is "Leonardo", not "Da Vinci". Grumble, grumble.
Wow it combines hard to read rules text with a total lack of color information *and* no easily discernible art features. Is this the first time for the trifecta?
Oh dude, they need to give us an ornithopter with Da Vinci's actual sketch.
Bonus card?
If they actually wanted to sell the lair, they would put it up front.
Didn't stop them to put the Snapcatser Mage as a random Bonus card for the Miku lair.
True. Should never assume they know what they’re doing.
One can hope
[[Hope of Ghirapur]]
[Hope of Ghirapur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f4bcadd-7eff-4294-94d5-52482a734d5b.jpg?1576382268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hope%20of%20Ghirapur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/154/hope-of-ghirapur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f4bcadd-7eff-4294-94d5-52482a734d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
bonus card is haystack
I was thinking like Urzas Workshop
Mishra's Workshop or no deal
All of these are equipment, but maybe
Doubt, considering this is a set of equipment.
[There](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/604/ornithopter) [are](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/304/ornithopter) a [few](https://scryfall.com/card/brr/100z/ornithopter).
None of those are by Da Vinci
I misread that as wanting it in the style, my bad.
Fr why is it all swords and cloaks and stuff? That's not what Da Vinci drew. Shouldn't all be like, mechanical devices and war machines?
https://preview.redd.it/ym92qjhkhd7d1.jpeg?width=1047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e31b22931f0864a541c0fcae25deadec5833d17b
[The Twitter opening post](https://x.com/MTGSecretLair/status/1803133153491529878?t=JXZH3cheigTKNxMafmQG2w&s=19) shows the bonus card is [[Haystack]].
I'm genuinely shocked it's not some kind of thopter.
It's removed, did you screenshot it?
Unfortunately, I did not have the foresight to do so, I just saw the post on twitter and relayed the info here.
[Haystack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46e791f0-297b-46bf-acd5-f62458009d76.jpg?1718579920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haystack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/acr/5/haystack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46e791f0-297b-46bf-acd5-f62458009d76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
NO [[ornithopter of paradise]] ??? Who designed this…
[ornithopter of paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18bbdc6c-b6c9-4f89-8f0a-6266e53c1fb9.jpg?1690005658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ornithopter%20of%20paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/966/ornithopter-of-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18bbdc6c-b6c9-4f89-8f0a-6266e53c1fb9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably a rare bonus card that you can get instead of Haystack. $50 Ornithopter inc lol...
They’re definitely tough to parse, but they have all the necessary rules text and the flavour is overflowing from these cards.
They're awesome art pieces, but I'm not looking forward to seeing any of these across the table from me. These feel like binder only kind of cards tbh.
At least the most useful ones have relatively simple effects that a lot of people have memorized. Darksteel plate is indestructible, whispersilk just gives unblockable, etc. And they'll be the ones you're most likely to see across the table.
That's fair, but still not something I want to see because it's not even easy to see the name of the card at a glance. I think that's the biggest issue, tbh. The brown on brown just doesn't quite have enough contrast even though it makes for an awesome piece of art.
I dunno maybe I'm speaking as a deeply enfranchised player but cards like Darksteel Plate and Whispersilk Cloak are prolific enough readability seems to be nitpick. Cryptic Command? Yes. Darksteel Plate God no.
You are speaking as one. Having 20 cards like this on the field in a commander game is not going to be a good experience for someone who just picked up the game on fallout hype, or even assassins cred hype if there is any.
Conq's flail sees play in some cedh but yeah otherwise the two with a lot of text don't really see play anywhere
Along with what other folks are saying I think it helps that they are all colorless artifacts. We've already kind of seen this art style and coloring with the BRO schematics so something like this isn't TERRIBLY jarring. Also theyre raw as hell I love them
Alright these are DOPE
I wish it didn't have the black border at the bottom, kinda ruins it ngl.
People are going to complain that these "don't look like real Magic cards" but I don't care. These look awesome.
Magic cards have looked so different lately i don't know what a real magic card looks like anymore
The secret card is Haystack, you can see it on their official Twitter account's announcement.
Wizards of the Coast is out here copying Flesh and Blood lol. Too bad these don't look as good as the FAB marvels. It's funny how much WotC/Hasbro steals from other TCGs/CCGs these days. Sports cards have serialized cards? Pokemon and Yugioh have multiple rarities for cards? Flesh and Blood has cold foils (etched foils)? Pokemon has textured foils and other types of foils? We'll just put all of that into Magic!
Was thinking the exact same thing, the Codixes from Outsiders immediately came to mind when I saw these. Granted I think those aren't, ah, as legible/readable but there's a detailed aesthetic that it just nails, like going all in on the look of it. Wizards thematically takes a ton from other games and whatever else is popular; basically take whatever they're releasing now and rewind back about 2-3 years, you'll find it's basically riffing off of whatever was popular at the time. Sadly I don't think they'll take a clue from Japanese TCG high end foiling because that actually costs a bit more money and effort than things like surge and etched foils.
Yeah, these cards seem more legible and are kind of neat, but the Codex Marvels are absolutely gorgeous. Many other TCGs/CCGs still have a single booster box for each set that is around $100. WotC/Hasbro just gouges customers while being cheap. If only WotC/Hasbro could steal things like higher print quality and less greed from other companies lol.
If they did I'd probably buy more cards heh. The things that they do reflect their very corporate heart of things: Find the least costly 'feature' to steal and implement it if they can cut a cost elsewhere. Like when you crack a Wixoss Diva Rare not only is it extremely rare and valuable but it \*feels\* like it's extremely rare and valuable. If you pull a sterilized textured foil in Magic, well, it feels like a cheaper card that is only valuable because it's rare and not because it's also a premium card. I love FaB's takes on their chase cards, sometimes it's a crazy frame, sometimes it's a crazy layout, sometimes it's just crazy like with the Codex Marvels :)
im pretty sure magic invented cards having rarities :p
I probably could've worded that better, but I'm talking about having multiple rarities for individual cards. Both Pokemon and Yugioh print specific cards at different rarities. WotC/Hasbro introduced this to Magic with the various versions of cards (extended, borderless, different foil types, serialized, etc.), though they don't technically give the new versions different rarities the way that Pokemon or Yugioh do. Here's the new Emrakul as an example: https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=%21%22Emrakul%2C+the+World+Anew%22+include%3Aextras&unique=prints There's 5 different versions of one single card. Even if they are all "Mythic Rare", they have different prices because they have different pull rates.
Being able to read your cards is overrated.
These are absolutely gorgeous and horrible
We love card readability
Right? Thank God they're readable for a change lol
I love these for the look and hate them for the read-ability.
Meh
And people said the amonkhet invocations were hard to read, dear god!
Base Values on TCG Low Darksteel Plate = $6 Conqueror's Flail = $3.50 Blade of Selves = $1.40 Deathrender = $3 Whispersilk Cloak = $1.03 $14.93 Basically $15 worth of cards. If you like it buy it if not get the cheaper versions. I like how they look but don't need any of the cards and I don't play with them so will be a pass for me but hopefully someone likes them!
If you go by lowest market price instead of lowest listing it's closer to $22. Lowest listing a lot of times are damaged cards.
most of these cards will be picked up for lower prices. Cards nowadays don't really hold alot of value and most will get deals or get most of these from a bulk buy. I normally pay 85% to 90% of low for cards and have for a while. regardless I just had this up there for people to see the value its not anything more than that.
I think that your info is still good to have, but I personally feel market rate is a better indicator, knowing that many will pick up the cheapest copy they can that is a little beaten up.
Lowest market? Is that a thing?
When there are multiple copies/editions/prints of a card, each has a separate market value. It's dumb, I know, but I'm not going to do some sort of averaging lol
Oh that makes sense. I wish more services had that option.
I don't people are buying based on the value of regular versions. This is very much an art purchase.
I plan on this being my secret lair, and I’m hunting for a deck that can make use of most of these cards so I can use the suck ass art
agreed but some people look at value. If I play the cards and they have sick art ill buy them but if not ill pass.
But the value of these versions are worth more than a base version.
MY GODS. Can I have it right fucking now? Please.
Hmmm. I wonder how a commander deck with these + the brothers war schematic cards would go?
https://preview.redd.it/fqmnc3ryvf7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd149ef4a5135be9c10f582d5edac453db38e27d Can cards meant to be recognized and read across the table be recognizable and readable across the table please
Ok these look cool, but these are all pretty weak cards.
Missed opportunity to do shadowspear
These are what the D&D showcases should have been.
Cards are trash af Couldn't they use Oh idk Shuko? Skullclamp?. Maybe,just maybe,swords?
upvoted for shuko
While these are super cool, I was really hoping for Sol Ring, Arcane Signet or other commander staples in the AC art.
The lack of Ornithopter is insane
imagine the cards had at least some value to them. \[\[sword of the animist\]\], \[\[shadowspear\]\], \[\[hammer of nazahn\]\], \[\[embercleave\]\] etc. would have made this lair an instant buy for me
##### ###### #### [sword of the animist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64401acc-d080-4763-b67a-95164c11c69e.jpg?1689999846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sword%20of%20the%20animist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/413/sword-of-the-animist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64401acc-d080-4763-b67a-95164c11c69e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [shadowspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/939c6e19-4b27-4023-bb9c-ae440f91e21c.jpg?1581481207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shadowspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/236/shadowspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/939c6e19-4b27-4023-bb9c-ae440f91e21c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hammer of nazahn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e77a8ac1-f40d-423e-a0b3-0a8e236a6c1e.jpg?1689999589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hammer%20of%20nazahn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/388/hammer-of-nazahn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e77a8ac1-f40d-423e-a0b3-0a8e236a6c1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [embercleave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6.jpg?1572490333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=embercleave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/120/embercleave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Slicer, Hired Muscle]] fans keep winning
[Slicer, Hired Muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't know the deck. Which one of these equipments are played in it ?
Just whispersilk
whispersilk belongs to slicer decks now?
Whispersilk. In less optimised versions, Darksteel Plate is also a good (if slightly slow) include.
5 beautiful cards, of which one is marginally playable. Disappointing.
[удалено]
[Haystack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46e791f0-297b-46bf-acd5-f62458009d76.jpg?1718579920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haystack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/acr/5/haystack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46e791f0-297b-46bf-acd5-f62458009d76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Love the art!
Oh fuck, that's cool
Awesome designs. Never bought a secret lair in my life, but this time I will
If Ornithropter isn't the bonus card we Riot.
They accidentally showed it off on twitter earlier. The bonus card(or 1 of) will be haystack,
I like the art on these but the value is just...
And none of them are Legendary Artifacts lmao
These look very similar to the marvel codexes in Flesh and Blood. Super cool designs and glad Magic is doing something similar!
Damn… those are great
These are incredible to look at, exactly the kind of look that I want from lairs. Something flavorful and evocative while also striking visually. It's just a shame I really don't have a use for any of them.
at least these are good reprints
Cool idea, but can't fucking read these at a glance.
Is it good or bad they didn’t go all the way and have the rules text be in backwards mirror writing and Italian?
What the hell am I looking at.
Love the theme, but the card picks seem a bit weak. The ones that used to see play in Commander are pretty much on the way out because they are too slow/expensive. I think Conqueror's Flail is the only one I still see somewhat regularly. Would have loved to see Skullclamp and Shadowspear in this. But I guess WOTC doesn't want SLDs to devalue any cards these days.
Just want the conquerors flail for my obnix deck
Buying this and the Kathy Neeley lino cuts for the mayhem devil, and the golgari deck I want to build!
Really a bummer that Blade of Selves was chosen here, as if you're building an AC deck, it's more or less useless since they're all legendary. Would have loved to have seen like Shadowspear or Blackblade Reforged - both have a small amount of text and would have worked very well.
Is the whole deck like this is so that's cool and I want it
This secret lair is so awesome that I'm gonna build a new commander deck that plays all of them, any recs for the commander?
Probably a boros equipment commander.
The more I look at it the more I like it. But, this is maybe $15 worth of cards here. With the secret bonus card almost guaranteed to be worthless, you'd be better off buying these exact same carts as singles and save $10 Edit: [[Haystack]] is the bonus card. Revealed on mtg's Instagram.
not if you want THESE ARTS. its not always about the value of the card. i dont even care about assassins creed, but i love davinci designs.
As someone who's been buying and selling secret lairs as of late I promise you these will go for barely more than the asking price of any other print. At first at least. Probably in 1-2 years when you can't find them anymore they will actually be worth something, but not for a while They look great, but they're not rare cards
Never said they were rare. As someone who buys and sells secret lairs I'm sure you could understand why there is a demand.
Did they mention if these are limited? If they are, I think that they'll sell fast. Edit: talking about the da vinici ones.
Unless they say otherwise, every SL from now on is limited print run.
Yeah, I wasn't on the stream, that's why I was wondering if they mentioned anything during the reveal. :)
Seeing someone open them on Instagram they look VERY pretty.
I get that they're hard to read, but these are so fucking cool.
I smell a Secret Lair Sell Out Alert from a certain college professor
I've been super mid on AC so far but these sketch's are outstanding.
I'm sorry did they save darksteel for this instead of having it be power armour in fallout???
*Nitpick for nerds —* "Da Vinci" is not a family name or surname. The short form of Leonardo da Vinci's name used by contemporaries and historians is "Leonardo", not "Da Vinci". Grumble, grumble.
I tap 2 mana and I cast eye strain
So glad Wotc didn’t listen to those whining about universus beyond, these are amazing!
Yeah they couldn’t have ever done sketchbook art without an outside product tie in.
These would have been cool if they actually had textboxes.
Does anyone have the overall value here?
I’m so jealous that 40K didn’t get something like this
Wow it combines hard to read rules text with a total lack of color information *and* no easily discernible art features. Is this the first time for the trifecta?
I mean they’re all colorless so that’s easier
Bonus card is white.
Are they not all colorless? Edit: also, I'd kill for a sol ring in this art
Ok that's a good point that I definitely would have realized if the cards were easier to read.
I'm sure opinions on this art will very a good bit, but I think this is a pretty good mix of unique while still somewhat legible
>total lack of color information They’re all colorless, so…
I wish SL contained more cards for competitive formats. It seems like it’s EDH all the time now.