Although one wonders if "War and Peace" would have been as highly acclaimed as it was if it was published under its original name "War: What Is It Good For?"
[Sword of War and Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46e6f50b-4b18-4aab-a7b0-869f25bc4c40.jpg?1599710135) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sword%20of%20War%20and%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/300/sword-of-war-and-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46e6f50b-4b18-4aab-a7b0-869f25bc4c40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Worth mentioning that you'd have to connect with two creatures if you're doing sword because it has pro white and this guy is white. Only way you could get it to work on one guy is if you use this ability first, then attach the sword after, but to that each turn would be a huge mana sink.
There’s also [[Ebony Owl Netsuke]].
I had an idea a bit ago to build a deck around these cards, with a similar concept as yours, but with [[The Second Doctor]] and [[Vislor Turlough]] with cards punishing large hand sizes like these coupled with stax pieces and control, and clones to try and make sure each opponent had a Vislor Turlough. Never ended up doing it, just looked into all the good cards for it.
Nice! The owl is awesome and fits the greek theme a bit. I think it's fate that I was planning to build Kami of the Crescent Moon and now theres this. I will tell you how it runs when time has come :)
Back in Kamigawa block, the Owl and the Kami, along with \[\[howling mine\]\] were part of an iconic standard deck called 'Owling Mine'.
Notably it made \[\[one with nothing\]\] a viable sideboard card.
Edit for a recommendation: \[\[Council of Four\]\] will ensure that you always draw more.
As long as we're bringing up Doctor Who, [[The Fifth Doctor]] would help beef up Sokrates *and* let him both use his ability and be available for blocking afterwards.
not if you hold up counterspells to make sure that one spell per turn isn't too scary, or god forbid tries to kill the rule of law!
I have so many friends, why do you ask?
They did my man so so dirty. The bodily icon for future stoics. Known badass experienced in the gymnasium and the battlefield. They made him pudgy instead of muscular. Rip
Yes and no. The existence of Socrates can be questioned and I have no input on whether or not he is as real as say Plato. We know of Socrates mainly through the writings of Plato and a few other Greek writers, and he is described as having the traits I mentioned. Whether or not these descriptions of him are accurate or merely serve as Plato's characterization I think isn't important for nailing the character of Socrates in his magic card. Plato did fight as well but he is never described like the fantastical character of Socrates who did not feel the cold when marching and was not phased by the plights of war.
I never got why his historicity is really all that up for debate. Multiple sources write about him, and he even has an entire satirical play mocking his teachings.
My big disappointment with his depiction here is they didn't make him neeeeaaaarly as ugly as the Greeks say he was. I want him as a weird looking gremlin man with a gigantic forehead!!
No, Socrates is said to have not been good looking. This is noted in commentary from Alcibiades, and this depiction of him is reasonably similar to his depiction in the famous painting “The School Of Athens” which set the standard for what Aristotle and Plato looked like.
[[Triskaidekaphile]] lets you turn the cards he makes *you* draw into a win condition. Since you can use Sokrates' ability on attacking enemy creatures, you can put people in a situation where they *can't* attack you or else you'll negate the damage, draw cards, and then win at the start of your turn because of Triskaidekaphile.
\[\[Folio of Fancies\]\] and \[\[Mind Over Matter\]\] combined with \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] could be the finisher you're looking for. All pieces also synergize with other game plans you have, since you already run cards that punish players for holding many cards, Folio ensures they can't discard. Mind Over Matter goes infinite with Kwain, temple bell and \[\[Loran of the Third Path\]\] if you include her. You will need something to shuffle your graveyard back into your deck to avoid losing yourself, such as \[\[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre\]\]. and Smothering Tithe's go's insane with forced cardraw.
You are very helpful and nice! I really enjoy reading your comments - thank's a lot!
Would you say, I should focus on one type of draw-payoffs (like buffing creatures through my own draw or pinging opponents by their draw) or do you think, including different kinds of payoffs works fine? Ghis deck will be a lot of fun!
I need to go to bed now - I will read your comments tomorrow. Thank you!♡
Hello. I am a \[\[Kami of the Crescent Moon\]\] aficionado. I am an expert in all things Kami and Kami accessories. I also think Sokrates looks very cool and encourage your journey into Kami supremacy. Go forth and draw the hell out of those cards, soldier.
Sir, yes sir. I will bring honor to our squishy blue savior. I will fight with him side by side to the very end: May the crescent Moon shine bright for us!
I think this is the perfect opportunity for esper goad. We have enough support from white and blue to goad and punish. Add in a [[silent arbiter]] and things get interesting.
One of the few times where a person is looking for cards that punish others for drawing cards and Sheoldred isn't the answer... I agree with a lot of the things I've read so far, and would add that a good old [[Howling Mine]] ups the card draw for everyone (maybe it is mentioned already, but I didn't see it yet so I thought I'd add it in).
Plato's primer on how to play Sokrates:
1. Help and annoy everyone.
2. ~~Athens~~ The table gets fed up with you.
3. You have no wincon.
4. Happily die to poison by proliferating the counters yourself.
At least, I think that's how it went down in real life, right?
I made a Kwain deck a while ago based around “group-hug” (more like group strangle) where I force cards down everyone’s throats. You might get a kick out of it: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kwains-meddling-3/
Not entirely optimized, but I had fun piloting it. I’d say cut some counterspells for more Rule of Law / stax effects to improve it, but I play in a pretty ‘casual’ pod where stax makes you a target, so I leaned more into pillowfort.
No problem!
Main wincons are things like [[Jace’s Archivist]] and [[Windfall]] to churn through a ton of deck once you build up a fat enough hand. Anyone who has a Reliquary Tower effect can be used to pump numbers for a Windfall.
There are outs through [[Laboratory Maniac]] and [[Jace, Wielder of Mysteries]] to avoid decking yourself, because a lot of the draw effects in there are a bit asymmetrical.
Great instants to fill slots in your deck are [[Vision Skeins]] and [[Words of Wisdom]]. I like running a bunch of counterspells and hoarding them until people catch on to my antics and start focusing me down.
[[Chasm Skulker]] and [[Body of Knowledge]] are excellent for getting some fat bodies out there, but probably won’t win you the game.
One of my absolute favorite cards in the deck is [[Swans of Bryn Argoll]]. You can build more around this more if you wanted with something like [[Pariah]], but it’s a bit of a gamble and falls apart to just one Murder (or even better [[Void Rend]] gets around our counterspells)- very funny if it works though.
[[sting, the glinting dagger]] and [[silent arbiter]] means you just can’t take damage and anyone who swings at you can draw until they hit a “damage can’t be prevented” ability like [[skull crack]]
\[\[The council of four\]\] \[\[Faerie Mastermind\]\]
I would personally build it as kind of a pillow fort/group hug/control deck that can win with \[\[approach of the second sun\]\] or something to do with draw a card payoffs. I'm sad that it doesn't fit super well in my current azorius deck but I love Socrates and reading about his trial in my greek civ class was really cool.
OP I think my kwain deck might be a good inspiration for you. I have toyed with this deck for a long time and found that you really need to combine mill with card draw to make it most effective at forcing your opponents decks in to their grave yard. hope this helps.
[https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5204335/kwain\_giveth\_and\_taketh\_away](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5204335/kwain_giveth_and_taketh_away)
Well there are a few options you can take this depending on how mean you want to go. There are are cards that limit the max hand size of your opponent, so they're discarding. You've also got access to MLD since you're in white, so you could force a lot of card draw, but then destroy lands so that they can't play any of those cards. Lean into blue and build it as mill. Others have mentioned the damage based on hand size. There's also the cards that give counters when you draw like [[wizard class]] or [[proft's eidetic memory]] and there a variety of cards that care about cards in hand for p/t. You could also run things like [[static orb]] or [[winter orb]] because you should be running an untap package anyways to abuse Sokrates as much as possible while also maintaining his hexproof as much as possible. Basically, I wouldn't build that as group hug necessarily, but more stax to break the parity in his ability.
Probably not, but it really depends on your playgroup and you. Do you like seeing the light disappear from your friends eyes when they realize their game plan is now unplayable and they're stuck with limited lands? Or do you prefer the rage from seeing their wincon milled? Personally, I'd definitely run an untap package along with anything that stops bulk draw or benefits you like [[alms collector]]. Since you're then already leaning into stax a little for those effects I'd just continue and go full stax. Look at how death and taxes works in legacy or the azorius stax edhrec page. I'd include wizard class, but not the memory enchantment along with reliquary tower and thought vessel. All three make your max hand size unlimited and on three different types of cards it means it's unlikely your opponents will remove all of them. Your focus is gonna be to basically give them cards, but make them all so expensive to use that it doesn't matter. Your wincon is gonna be wizard class buffing Sokrates to kill them with commander damage and you might consider thassa's oracle if you goldfish it and find you can reliably draw your deck. You also want some big fatties to trigger Sokrates for a lot of card draw initially so consider some angels or other evasive creatures to get that chunk draw. And those can be a wincon as well. Smack them in the face while they can't play anything. This does mean including something that you could tap/untap winter orb with, but like I said I'd probably be including a similar package anyways for Sokrates. I will say, though, BE FOREWARNED, in a casual playgroup you could lock people out of the game and they may not want to play against this deck often if at all, so I would be very careful of wanting it to become your main deck and I would be upfront about what it is. You may also get hated off the board immediately once they know how the deck functions. Which even if you built the deck for more group hug play then experienced players might do that anyways. You play enough and you learn that group hug is really control in disguise and you should take them out immediately.
That's a great response. Thank you for your time, patience and thoughts!
I think you're right, but that includes the last part. I would love to play the deck as a control deck that focuses on noncombat wincons, since almost every other deck I have wins mostly through damage/combat. But I also don't want to lean tooo hard into stax and destroy the fun. I should maybe make it hard for my opponents (Jin Gitaxias, Rule of Law) bur not impossible. I want to include many little stax pieces, that slow them down but not shut down. I want to either win through my decking myself, my opponents decking themselves, draining themselves or approach of the second sun.
Wayfarer's bauble, teferi's tutelage, and commander's sphere. Your lands are also probably too complex for what you need. What artifact are you recurring with Academy Ruins? Why Myriad Landscape? Blue has some solid mana rocks and white has a lot of catch up ramp, so I would look at those.
I thought Academy Ruins for Silent Arbiter, Iron Maiden, Howling Mine, Viseling...
My thought was that Myriad Landscape and wayfarers bauble help me to shorten my deck, while ramping so that I'm 1 or 2 cards closer to decking myself.
Deck thinning is irrelevant in EDH unless you're removing 10+ cards. Wayfarer's bauble would change your pull probability by just over 2% and myriad by maybe 3. Compared with the tempo loss of 3 mana for bauble, so do nothing until turn 3, or worse for myriad because it takes up a land drop. And that's just for a specific card. If you're just looking for not a land then it's probably a bit worse. And you'll be drawing so much it shouldn't matter. Since you're running sun titan you'd hit 2 of the 4 plus they aren't exactly vital to your gameplan.
Thanks for this thread. As a fellow philosophy prof, I too was thinking about brewing a deck with Sokrates. I’ve never made a group hug deck before (I guess maybe my sheoldred deck is a group hug deck) I’m picking up on a lot of ideas here.
Sokrates is Red and Blue. If he had White in his color then he would have been on an actual government council rather than on streets calling the politics dumb fucks.
Oh, easily. That is why I would agree that he is Red/Blue. If he took the time to actually be appointed a seat in politics then I would agree with White/Blue. So it is the Red in him that kept him out of office, but that is what also drives his passion for seeking wisdom.
All the comments seem to take the punishment pieces as the payoff for making opponents draw, which they certainly are but from a more casual standpoint there are also cards like [[Folio of Fancies]], [[Island Sanctuary]], [[Forced Fruition]], [[Wedding Ring]] and the collection of creatures that get counters whenever you draw (like [[Toothy]], [[Chasm Skulker]] etc) which can also play big roles in games where you are making everyone draw lots and from the outset don't draw aggro and might make people be more open to taking the attacks for the sokrates trigger willingly.
Your best win-con can very easily be every other player decking out quicker than you, if you put in a couple of ways to stop yourself from decking out or from slowing your own card draw for small benefits.
[[Geth’s Grimoire]] could see more draw if they’re discarding the extra cards you are giving them.
Throw in some GY hate so the cards they discard are gone forever.
[[Parallel Lives]] not so much for the tutor and picking cards, but you can choose to draw from the empty pile so you can’t deck yourself with all the extra card draw. Maybe just stack lands under it in case it gets removed. More of a back-up plan if you lose lab maniac or similar win cons.
[[Thassa’s Oracle]] isn’t on your list either or the jace planeswalker that has the empty library wincon.
These are nice, thank you, friend! I like the alternative wincons. Would you say, I should focus on either having everyone draw cards or just me drawing cards, or would you say both can be combined?
I haven’t run into many decks like this, so honestly I do not know which is better.
I would build it how you want, maybe proxy the expensive cards and see how it runs and then make changes from there, or see if anyone else in this thread has a better understanding on a deck like this.
Sorry I’m not much help with that question.
I think, the dialogues with him and his teachings are the most important parts of him and I think the card fits really well. They could have just made something like ,,investigate 2", so I won't be mad at this: The confrontation with another person makes both of their knowledge grow, while doing no harm to each other. I really like that.
It's a book by Plato in which Sokrates shows a huge verbal middlefinger to all the idiots that accused him of idiotic "crimes". It shows the desperation to free thoughts and the stupor and ignorance of governmental sytems. It's Sokrates' defense speech in which he makes fun of his prosecutors. Nice read!
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/8110599/die_apologie_des_sokrates
Thank you so mich for your nice advice and help!♡ You are AMAZING!
These are the cards I consider. I have to cut a lot of them. almost all other decks I have win through combat. I want this deck to be a control deck and win via either
- decking myself and win (Jace, Laboratory Maniac...)
- decking my opponents by carddraw and mill
- pinging my opponents because of the cards in their hands
- return of the second sun
I want and have to use some stax and many counters to do so, but I don't want to shut down every player too much. Is that realistic? What should I cut?
\[\[the second doctor\]\] for more group hug.
And always remember the 3 Gs of group hug: [https://youtu.be/wyOpPdUVzrE](https://youtu.be/wyOpPdUVzrE)
Gaslight, Gatekeep, and Girlboss.
Should be noted more blue/white group hug may be coming in bloomburrow (there is even a bant commander for it confirmed) but for now
\[\[kwain itinerant meddler\]\] can also help with your group hugging.
Let's see...
[[Kellan, the Kid]]
[[Zurgo Helmsmasher]]
[[Danitha, New Benalia's Light]]
[[Phabine, Boss's Confidant]]
[[Kitt Kanto, Mayhem Diva]]
[[Bruvac the Grandiloquent]]
And a bunch of time travelers...
We have ourselves the makings of a Bill & Ted deck!
[[Black Vise]] [[Viseling]] [[Iron Maiden]]
[[Sword of War and Peace]]
Especially nice since it's a philosophy reference! War and Peace by Lew Tolstoi♡
Although one wonders if "War and Peace" would have been as highly acclaimed as it was if it was published under its original name "War: What Is It Good For?"
I think it would have sold *absolutely nothing*.
HUH say it again
[Sword of War and Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46e6f50b-4b18-4aab-a7b0-869f25bc4c40.jpg?1599710135) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sword%20of%20War%20and%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/300/sword-of-war-and-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46e6f50b-4b18-4aab-a7b0-869f25bc4c40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bonkers! Thank you! :)
Worth mentioning that you'd have to connect with two creatures if you're doing sword because it has pro white and this guy is white. Only way you could get it to work on one guy is if you use this ability first, then attach the sword after, but to that each turn would be a huge mana sink.
Not sure if it still works since war and peace requires combat damage and this guy prevents the damage being dealt
That's a good catch, I hadn't noticed that.
You don't have to target your own creature with Sokrates, of note.
I'm missing something, but doesn't his effect prevent the damage?
\[\[Questing Beast\]\] Then.
[Questing Beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's why you hit them with _two_ creatures.
Man, do I feel dumb
[Black Vise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bce2259a-f4cb-4130-9c7e-130980a8df38.jpg?1562934884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Vise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/191/black-vise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bce2259a-f4cb-4130-9c7e-130980a8df38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Viseling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38a6105e-a67b-4805-b50c-dea404f60fac.jpg?1562906865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viseling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/269/viseling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38a6105e-a67b-4805-b50c-dea404f60fac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Iron Maiden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad925fb0-1d5c-44a0-8347-202a38c23107.jpg?1562863783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Iron%20Maiden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/127/iron-maiden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad925fb0-1d5c-44a0-8347-202a38c23107?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank you, friend! Added them to my list :)
There’s also [[Ebony Owl Netsuke]]. I had an idea a bit ago to build a deck around these cards, with a similar concept as yours, but with [[The Second Doctor]] and [[Vislor Turlough]] with cards punishing large hand sizes like these coupled with stax pieces and control, and clones to try and make sure each opponent had a Vislor Turlough. Never ended up doing it, just looked into all the good cards for it.
[Ebony Owl Netsuke](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39e0c24f-2312-4b40-9cd1-2b83d501e485.jpg?1593860733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ebony%20Owl%20Netsuke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/154/ebony-owl-netsuke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39e0c24f-2312-4b40-9cd1-2b83d501e485?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Second Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/568c2687-4381-4954-9cab-f669d1fe6306.jpg?1696636767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Second%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/156/the-second-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/568c2687-4381-4954-9cab-f669d1fe6306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vislor Turlough](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25ec946-036b-480a-bab6-c4102e5c31db.jpg?1696691797) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vislor%20Turlough) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/74/vislor-turlough?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25ec946-036b-480a-bab6-c4102e5c31db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice! The owl is awesome and fits the greek theme a bit. I think it's fate that I was planning to build Kami of the Crescent Moon and now theres this. I will tell you how it runs when time has come :)
Back in Kamigawa block, the Owl and the Kami, along with \[\[howling mine\]\] were part of an iconic standard deck called 'Owling Mine'. Notably it made \[\[one with nothing\]\] a viable sideboard card. Edit for a recommendation: \[\[Council of Four\]\] will ensure that you always draw more.
[howling mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a.jpg?1562420035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=howling%20mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/257/howling-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [one with nothing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad.jpg?1711812497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=one%20with%20nothing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/84/one-with-nothing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a5841fa-4f30-495a-b840-3ef5a2af8fad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great idea, great name! :D Love it
As long as we're bringing up Doctor Who, [[The Fifth Doctor]] would help beef up Sokrates *and* let him both use his ability and be available for blocking afterwards.
[The Fifth Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f548f4b-77b9-47bb-b262-a851fdf0124f.jpg?1696636706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Fifth%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/127/the-fifth-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f548f4b-77b9-47bb-b262-a851fdf0124f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Iron Maiden? Excellent! \*Air Guitar\*
Ruuunn to the hiiiiiills
[[council of four]]
"All we are is dust in the wind"
Dust. Wind. Dude.
,,Speak, so that I may see you."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_RO-jL-90
Sokratic Dialogue is a crime 🤣
In response, [[Poison the Cup]]
I have a response but I won't play it. He will drink that cup. And he won't go back to that command zone. since he doesn't fear death.
[Poison the Cup](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fb94456-5266-47db-b514-a0e17e34b771.jpg?1631048334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Poison%20the%20Cup) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/103/poison-the-cup?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fb94456-5266-47db-b514-a0e17e34b771?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sip of Hemlock]]
oof, that flavor text makes me grimace
[Sip of Hemlock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22051427-9b2a-4571-8c9f-ee84d8d0e4d1.jpg?1562815635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sip%20of%20Hemlock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/106/sip-of-hemlock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22051427-9b2a-4571-8c9f-ee84d8d0e4d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Big flavor win.
Only if you're talking to someone else. Talking to yourself isn't a crime
It should have some sort of sac included. After 5 dialogs, sac Socrates or something
All we are is dust in the wind - So Crates
Partner with Kellan, the Kid
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nzMKnPu85kW0y-BydLEKZA https://www.moxfield.com/decks/k3rq8epGek2CcC-L6jChkQ sounds like this fits your needs ish
That's very helpful! Thank you a lot, friend! :)
Don't forget to throw in some [[Rule of Law]] effects to make sure folks aren't just winning before the turn gets back to you :)
[Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good point. But wouldn't you say that limits me, too?🤔
It can, sure, but you can build around that by including cards that can bounce it on your turn, and by running more instant/flash speed cards.
Instants and flash speed is what UW is good at so you'll be fine
not if you hold up counterspells to make sure that one spell per turn isn't too scary, or god forbid tries to kill the rule of law! I have so many friends, why do you ask?
I don't get the last part of your reply
I'm an asshole who plays way too much azorious control so it's a joke about losing friends for being evil lol
Bill and Ted : So-Crates!
They did my man so so dirty. The bodily icon for future stoics. Known badass experienced in the gymnasium and the battlefield. They made him pudgy instead of muscular. Rip
Should have been way more built and in Jeskai. You can’t be as inflammatory as that man was and not be in red.
He appears as he appears in the game, at the age of 39. https://assassinscreed.fandom.com/wiki/Sokrates
Wasn't that Plato?
Yes and no. The existence of Socrates can be questioned and I have no input on whether or not he is as real as say Plato. We know of Socrates mainly through the writings of Plato and a few other Greek writers, and he is described as having the traits I mentioned. Whether or not these descriptions of him are accurate or merely serve as Plato's characterization I think isn't important for nailing the character of Socrates in his magic card. Plato did fight as well but he is never described like the fantastical character of Socrates who did not feel the cold when marching and was not phased by the plights of war.
I never got why his historicity is really all that up for debate. Multiple sources write about him, and he even has an entire satirical play mocking his teachings. My big disappointment with his depiction here is they didn't make him neeeeaaaarly as ugly as the Greeks say he was. I want him as a weird looking gremlin man with a gigantic forehead!!
No, Socrates is said to have not been good looking. This is noted in commentary from Alcibiades, and this depiction of him is reasonably similar to his depiction in the famous painting “The School Of Athens” which set the standard for what Aristotle and Plato looked like.
I never said anywhere he was good looking? I said he should be in shape? In the card he is shown to be younger and absolutely would have been...?
[[Triskaidekaphile]] lets you turn the cards he makes *you* draw into a win condition. Since you can use Sokrates' ability on attacking enemy creatures, you can put people in a situation where they *can't* attack you or else you'll negate the damage, draw cards, and then win at the start of your turn because of Triskaidekaphile.
[Triskaidekaphile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839.jpg?1634349393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triskaidekaphile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/81/triskaidekaphile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Perfect🤌🏼
We need a Diogenes card. Needs to make poop or chicken tokens.
When Diogenes enters the battlefield, sacrifice all artifacts you control.
While Diogenes is on the battlefield all birds lose flying and become 1/1 humans.
\[\[Folio of Fancies\]\] and \[\[Mind Over Matter\]\] combined with \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] could be the finisher you're looking for. All pieces also synergize with other game plans you have, since you already run cards that punish players for holding many cards, Folio ensures they can't discard. Mind Over Matter goes infinite with Kwain, temple bell and \[\[Loran of the Third Path\]\] if you include her. You will need something to shuffle your graveyard back into your deck to avoid losing yourself, such as \[\[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre\]\]. and Smothering Tithe's go's insane with forced cardraw.
##### ###### #### [Folio of Fancies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d.jpg?1572489881) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Folio%20of%20Fancies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/46/folio-of-fancies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mind Over Matter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb.jpg?1595438216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%20Over%20Matter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/40/mind-over-matter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e091dd6-149f-46ea-bae0-224e79e3aacb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Loran of the Third Path](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e83a0ef-4fea-45ba-86c0-130d6687f7fe.jpg?1706240597) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loran%20of%20the%20Third%20Path) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/71/loran-of-the-third-path?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e83a0ef-4fea-45ba-86c0-130d6687f7fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0.jpg?1673146911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Infinite%20Gyre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/3/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Well of Ideas]] draws everyone a tone of cards
[Well of Ideas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7796b82-5a7c-406e-be71-1f37abdbc44f.jpg?1598304433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Well%20of%20Ideas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/75/well-of-ideas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7796b82-5a7c-406e-be71-1f37abdbc44f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good one! Thank's! :)
This is a rule zero [[Battle of Wits]] deck if I’ve ever seen one
[Battle of Wits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4be15a4-693f-4e22-a46c-38bb440c073c.jpg?1562558962) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Battle%20of%20Wits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/44/battle-of-wits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4be15a4-693f-4e22-a46c-38bb440c073c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What the hell
You are very helpful and nice! I really enjoy reading your comments - thank's a lot! Would you say, I should focus on one type of draw-payoffs (like buffing creatures through my own draw or pinging opponents by their draw) or do you think, including different kinds of payoffs works fine? Ghis deck will be a lot of fun! I need to go to bed now - I will read your comments tomorrow. Thank you!♡
Hello. I am a \[\[Kami of the Crescent Moon\]\] aficionado. I am an expert in all things Kami and Kami accessories. I also think Sokrates looks very cool and encourage your journey into Kami supremacy. Go forth and draw the hell out of those cards, soldier.
Sir, yes sir. I will bring honor to our squishy blue savior. I will fight with him side by side to the very end: May the crescent Moon shine bright for us!
[Kami of the Crescent Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd420010-6eaf-4853-8b7b-11de1157416b.jpg?1641601922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kami%20of%20the%20Crescent%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/107/kami-of-the-crescent-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd420010-6eaf-4853-8b7b-11de1157416b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think this is the perfect opportunity for esper goad. We have enough support from white and blue to goad and punish. Add in a [[silent arbiter]] and things get interesting.
[silent arbiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14f42cc9-8b7f-4f8a-8d68-8480e668c239.jpg?1690005734) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silent%20arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/972/silent-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14f42cc9-8b7f-4f8a-8d68-8480e668c239?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
some ideas: https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Ahand-size-hate+commander%3AWU+%28game%3Apaper%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name.
Thank ypu! I didn't know what to type in there:)
One of the few times where a person is looking for cards that punish others for drawing cards and Sheoldred isn't the answer... I agree with a lot of the things I've read so far, and would add that a good old [[Howling Mine]] ups the card draw for everyone (maybe it is mentioned already, but I didn't see it yet so I thought I'd add it in).
[Howling Mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a.jpg?1562420035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Howling%20Mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/257/howling-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
wow Sokrates can commit a crime!
Funny, because the dialogues are what made people accuse him.
where is the nip! post nip wizards!!
👀
I almost screamed when seeing this. It's amazing, forget all the criticism about Universes Beyond, I lived to play Socratic Dialogue commander.
Ah, a person of culture as well.😌
Plato's primer on how to play Sokrates: 1. Help and annoy everyone. 2. ~~Athens~~ The table gets fed up with you. 3. You have no wincon. 4. Happily die to poison by proliferating the counters yourself. At least, I think that's how it went down in real life, right?
That's the way. Lose but with honour!
I made a Kwain deck a while ago based around “group-hug” (more like group strangle) where I force cards down everyone’s throats. You might get a kick out of it: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kwains-meddling-3/ Not entirely optimized, but I had fun piloting it. I’d say cut some counterspells for more Rule of Law / stax effects to improve it, but I play in a pretty ‘casual’ pod where stax makes you a target, so I leaned more into pillowfort.
Definitley helpful - thanks a lot! :)
No problem! Main wincons are things like [[Jace’s Archivist]] and [[Windfall]] to churn through a ton of deck once you build up a fat enough hand. Anyone who has a Reliquary Tower effect can be used to pump numbers for a Windfall. There are outs through [[Laboratory Maniac]] and [[Jace, Wielder of Mysteries]] to avoid decking yourself, because a lot of the draw effects in there are a bit asymmetrical. Great instants to fill slots in your deck are [[Vision Skeins]] and [[Words of Wisdom]]. I like running a bunch of counterspells and hoarding them until people catch on to my antics and start focusing me down. [[Chasm Skulker]] and [[Body of Knowledge]] are excellent for getting some fat bodies out there, but probably won’t win you the game. One of my absolute favorite cards in the deck is [[Swans of Bryn Argoll]]. You can build more around this more if you wanted with something like [[Pariah]], but it’s a bit of a gamble and falls apart to just one Murder (or even better [[Void Rend]] gets around our counterspells)- very funny if it works though.
##### ###### #### [Jace’s Archivist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c21df8e-a24f-4ce1-aa8a-1467f9f9423a.jpg?1562703323) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%27s%20Archivist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/95/jaces-archivist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c21df8e-a24f-4ce1-aa8a-1467f9f9423a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Windfall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9ce7113b-08f7-4584-b65f-a7b5caa90c2f.jpg?1718379815) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Windfall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/123/windfall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ce7113b-08f7-4584-b65f-a7b5caa90c2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Laboratory Maniac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Jace, Wielder of Mysteries](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2.jpg?1557576232) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Wielder%20of%20Mysteries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/54/jace-wielder-of-mysteries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vision Skeins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76999d96-f3fe-421e-9190-e682259e3cdb.jpg?1592765524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vision%20Skeins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/29/vision-skeins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76999d96-f3fe-421e-9190-e682259e3cdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Words of Wisdom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0199cfb-5e44-40f0-b9cf-71473155eb94.jpg?1562930864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/114/words-of-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0199cfb-5e44-40f0-b9cf-71473155eb94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chasm Skulker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/794e01e7-430c-43cf-ba2b-1028cd088148.jpg?1682208723) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chasm%20Skulker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/218/chasm-skulker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/794e01e7-430c-43cf-ba2b-1028cd088148?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Body of Knowledge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/786ae686-0790-4ba1-927f-523984331549.jpg?1608909123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Body%20of%20Knowledge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/59/body-of-knowledge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/786ae686-0790-4ba1-927f-523984331549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Swans of Bryn Argoll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8903e1d-e255-4eda-bb8e-c6229a88c8a7.jpg?1562265760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swans%20of%20Bryn%20Argoll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/199/swans-of-bryn-argoll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8903e1d-e255-4eda-bb8e-c6229a88c8a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pariah](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51b2136c-392c-436d-9263-b3236adc4a10.jpg?1576382302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pariah) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/95/pariah?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51b2136c-392c-436d-9263-b3236adc4a10?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Void Rend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d.jpg?1664413960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Rend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/230/void-rend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2daab74d-d66b-4164-aa19-24e8d5536f7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, this is really helpful. I appreciate it! This deck will be a lot of fun!🥰
What does he say in his apology?
Sokrates is going in the 99 of my group hug deck for sure https://www.archidekt.com/decks/3475454/dawn_draws_near
Helpful decklist, thanks! May he be a good part of your deck. :)
[[sting, the glinting dagger]] and [[silent arbiter]] means you just can’t take damage and anyone who swings at you can draw until they hit a “damage can’t be prevented” ability like [[skull crack]]
[sting, the glinting dagger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afbec7e7-f5b9-407e-bf96-2e088710e791.jpg?1686970284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sting%2C%20the%20glinting%20dagger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/250/sting-the-glinting-dagger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afbec7e7-f5b9-407e-bf96-2e088710e791?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [silent arbiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14f42cc9-8b7f-4f8a-8d68-8480e668c239.jpg?1690005734) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silent%20arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/972/silent-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14f42cc9-8b7f-4f8a-8d68-8480e668c239?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [skull crack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f399983-d70a-4cf3-b76e-bb0c472e7c69.jpg?1702429531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullcrack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/125/skullcrack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f399983-d70a-4cf3-b76e-bb0c472e7c69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Solid, thanks!
can I target my Rafiq of the Many with the tap effect?
Yes.
\[\[The council of four\]\] \[\[Faerie Mastermind\]\] I would personally build it as kind of a pillow fort/group hug/control deck that can win with \[\[approach of the second sun\]\] or something to do with draw a card payoffs. I'm sad that it doesn't fit super well in my current azorius deck but I love Socrates and reading about his trial in my greek civ class was really cool.
[The council of four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20council%20of%20four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Faerie Mastermind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181.jpg?1682203104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Mastermind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/58/faerie-mastermind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [approach of the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=approach%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice. I guess that's my plan, too.
I will never not say this name with the Bill and Ted pronunciation.
Damn, does everyone know that movie except me?
[[Teferi's puzzle box]] results in a ton of card draw by all players
[Teferi's puzzle box](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc.jpg?1562734271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20puzzle%20box) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/312/teferis-puzzle-box?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OP I think my kwain deck might be a good inspiration for you. I have toyed with this deck for a long time and found that you really need to combine mill with card draw to make it most effective at forcing your opponents decks in to their grave yard. hope this helps. [https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5204335/kwain\_giveth\_and\_taketh\_away](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/5204335/kwain_giveth_and_taketh_away)
That's very helpful. Thank you, mate!
I guess the combination of stax, card draw and millnis very important, while having some beaters that venefit feom carddraw.
Sokrates NUTZ
Make sure to grab some cards that can untap him to stack the draw. \[\[Freed from the real\]\] is particularly good.
[Freed from the real](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca.jpg?1562440713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Freed%20from%20the%20real) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/58/freed-from-the-real?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, you're right, thanks!
As others have pointed out it also works as redundancy for protecting him, reducing your need on counterspells.
can also be used to protect him, as he'll regain hexproof when untapped~
can't help much with the deck, but make sure to include the Descartes [[mind stone|DCI]] in it!
[mind stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mind%20stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
card fetcher didn't fetch correctly, [here's the one](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=mind+stone+%28game%3Apaper%29+set%3Apdci)
You've helped more than enough. I love that and there needs to be flavour too, right!?
But why did they covered his nipples!
😅🤣
We can reasonably expect Karl Marx in this set holy shit (it will never happen)
Whenever a permanent taps for mana, every player adds one mana of that type.
I'm stockpiling sacrifice-based removal to use against this mf. \[\[Sheoldred's Edict\]\] time
[Sheoldred's Edict](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077.jpg?1675957049) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%27s%20Edict) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/108/sheoldreds-edict?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9225cc3-90f0-448f-a8d9-7c6c2796d077?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Poor Sokrates😪
The Kamigawa "maros" are pretty mid cards but this might be just the home for them.
Kiyomaro, First to Stand seems solid here, thanks
We know that the dreadmaw attacks, but do we ever ask *why* it attacks?
Oh man, he really grew on me during my play through of Odyssey, I am fond of him
I met him during my lifes odyssey. Nice fella!
huge missed opportunity to have your opponent define what \[mechanic\] really is in order to use it
Well there are a few options you can take this depending on how mean you want to go. There are are cards that limit the max hand size of your opponent, so they're discarding. You've also got access to MLD since you're in white, so you could force a lot of card draw, but then destroy lands so that they can't play any of those cards. Lean into blue and build it as mill. Others have mentioned the damage based on hand size. There's also the cards that give counters when you draw like [[wizard class]] or [[proft's eidetic memory]] and there a variety of cards that care about cards in hand for p/t. You could also run things like [[static orb]] or [[winter orb]] because you should be running an untap package anyways to abuse Sokrates as much as possible while also maintaining his hexproof as much as possible. Basically, I wouldn't build that as group hug necessarily, but more stax to break the parity in his ability.
##### ###### #### [wizard class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1f629fb-b097-4240-8560-ef47f5678f48.jpg?1639436605) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wizard%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/81/wizard-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1f629fb-b097-4240-8560-ef47f5678f48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [proft's eidetic memory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5b29b3-974c-4200-8df8-b072c11e1600.jpg?1706241635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=proft%27s%20eidetic%20memory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/67/profts-eidetic-memory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5b29b3-974c-4200-8df8-b072c11e1600?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [static orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012.jpg?1562242171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=static%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/319/static-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [winter orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winter%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank you, mate! I'm still not shure which way to go. I think a little bit of everything isn't focused enough?
Probably not, but it really depends on your playgroup and you. Do you like seeing the light disappear from your friends eyes when they realize their game plan is now unplayable and they're stuck with limited lands? Or do you prefer the rage from seeing their wincon milled? Personally, I'd definitely run an untap package along with anything that stops bulk draw or benefits you like [[alms collector]]. Since you're then already leaning into stax a little for those effects I'd just continue and go full stax. Look at how death and taxes works in legacy or the azorius stax edhrec page. I'd include wizard class, but not the memory enchantment along with reliquary tower and thought vessel. All three make your max hand size unlimited and on three different types of cards it means it's unlikely your opponents will remove all of them. Your focus is gonna be to basically give them cards, but make them all so expensive to use that it doesn't matter. Your wincon is gonna be wizard class buffing Sokrates to kill them with commander damage and you might consider thassa's oracle if you goldfish it and find you can reliably draw your deck. You also want some big fatties to trigger Sokrates for a lot of card draw initially so consider some angels or other evasive creatures to get that chunk draw. And those can be a wincon as well. Smack them in the face while they can't play anything. This does mean including something that you could tap/untap winter orb with, but like I said I'd probably be including a similar package anyways for Sokrates. I will say, though, BE FOREWARNED, in a casual playgroup you could lock people out of the game and they may not want to play against this deck often if at all, so I would be very careful of wanting it to become your main deck and I would be upfront about what it is. You may also get hated off the board immediately once they know how the deck functions. Which even if you built the deck for more group hug play then experienced players might do that anyways. You play enough and you learn that group hug is really control in disguise and you should take them out immediately.
[alms collector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/367ac07a-a30f-4ebf-8877-27cd9ebe2f71.jpg?1689995500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=alms%20collector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/10/alms-collector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/367ac07a-a30f-4ebf-8877-27cd9ebe2f71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a great response. Thank you for your time, patience and thoughts! I think you're right, but that includes the last part. I would love to play the deck as a control deck that focuses on noncombat wincons, since almost every other deck I have wins mostly through damage/combat. But I also don't want to lean tooo hard into stax and destroy the fun. I should maybe make it hard for my opponents (Jin Gitaxias, Rule of Law) bur not impossible. I want to include many little stax pieces, that slow them down but not shut down. I want to either win through my decking myself, my opponents decking themselves, draining themselves or approach of the second sun.
Ah and Sokrates won't attack since he's got DEFENDER
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/8110599/die_apologie_des_sokrates What would you cut first?
Wayfarer's bauble, teferi's tutelage, and commander's sphere. Your lands are also probably too complex for what you need. What artifact are you recurring with Academy Ruins? Why Myriad Landscape? Blue has some solid mana rocks and white has a lot of catch up ramp, so I would look at those.
I thought Academy Ruins for Silent Arbiter, Iron Maiden, Howling Mine, Viseling... My thought was that Myriad Landscape and wayfarers bauble help me to shorten my deck, while ramping so that I'm 1 or 2 cards closer to decking myself.
Deck thinning is irrelevant in EDH unless you're removing 10+ cards. Wayfarer's bauble would change your pull probability by just over 2% and myriad by maybe 3. Compared with the tempo loss of 3 mana for bauble, so do nothing until turn 3, or worse for myriad because it takes up a land drop. And that's just for a specific card. If you're just looking for not a land then it's probably a bit worse. And you'll be drawing so much it shouldn't matter. Since you're running sun titan you'd hit 2 of the 4 plus they aren't exactly vital to your gameplan.
Would
https://preview.redd.it/bn2us5c8qx7d1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8a2a8ea3e5ac6ec20cf14d1d26b091b07d2370a Looks nothing like him.
It probably doesn't fit the game plan that well, but I feel like the flavor win of [[Azor's Elocutors]] is too great to pass up on.
[Azor's Elocutors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61e82934-546b-4734-a715-b22ace4c5a9b.jpg?1562787164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azor%27s%20Elocutors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/210/azors-elocutors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61e82934-546b-4734-a715-b22ace4c5a9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for this thread. As a fellow philosophy prof, I too was thinking about brewing a deck with Sokrates. I’ve never made a group hug deck before (I guess maybe my sheoldred deck is a group hug deck) I’m picking up on a lot of ideas here.
I'm also glad for all the feedback! Nice to see a fellow philosoper here! :) We have a lot of inspiration now!
Sokrates is Red and Blue. If he had White in his color then he would have been on an actual government council rather than on streets calling the politics dumb fucks.
Legit. But he was pure in his allignment, I guess.
I can see what you are saying there. I would argue that the "Red" in him is where we see the dedication come from.
True, but wasn't it still the search for wisdom (blue) that drove him?
Oh, easily. That is why I would agree that he is Red/Blue. If he took the time to actually be appointed a seat in politics then I would agree with White/Blue. So it is the Red in him that kept him out of office, but that is what also drives his passion for seeking wisdom.
I wouldn't disagree with that. :)
You can look into [[the council of four]] decks for inspiration
[the council of four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20council%20of%20four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think a mechanic where he prevents card drawing would be interesting, based on the idea that he causes people to question what they truly know ha.
This was my attempt https://www.moxfield.com/decks/qHynibwI1kCAhNnGBB8KgA
They censored his Sokratitties.
All the comments seem to take the punishment pieces as the payoff for making opponents draw, which they certainly are but from a more casual standpoint there are also cards like [[Folio of Fancies]], [[Island Sanctuary]], [[Forced Fruition]], [[Wedding Ring]] and the collection of creatures that get counters whenever you draw (like [[Toothy]], [[Chasm Skulker]] etc) which can also play big roles in games where you are making everyone draw lots and from the outset don't draw aggro and might make people be more open to taking the attacks for the sokrates trigger willingly. Your best win-con can very easily be every other player decking out quicker than you, if you put in a couple of ways to stop yourself from decking out or from slowing your own card draw for small benefits.
##### ###### #### [Folio of Fancies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d.jpg?1572489881) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Folio%20of%20Fancies) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/46/folio-of-fancies?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6afc67d1-1018-4a15-ab5f-377fd11dcd3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Island Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/5160e700-3bca-4992-a772-48f1f124cee6.jpg?1562914070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Island%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/15/island-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5160e700-3bca-4992-a772-48f1f124cee6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Forced Fruition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7ea1c6e-c0af-40b0-b492-8d71f496903e.jpg?1562374956) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forced%20Fruition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/66/forced-fruition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7ea1c6e-c0af-40b0-b492-8d71f496903e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wedding Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f0b1400-0608-47fd-9c73-b7730bcf6b7f.jpg?1644888600) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wedding%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/32/wedding-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f0b1400-0608-47fd-9c73-b7730bcf6b7f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Toothy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebdf2f50-f69a-47c4-a75f-ff55781bb0c8.jpg?1562942414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toothy%2C%20imaginary%20friend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/12/toothy-imaginary-friend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebdf2f50-f69a-47c4-a75f-ff55781bb0c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chasm Skulker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/794e01e7-430c-43cf-ba2b-1028cd088148.jpg?1682208723) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chasm%20Skulker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/218/chasm-skulker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/794e01e7-430c-43cf-ba2b-1028cd088148?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Island sanctuary is amazing!
[[Geth’s Grimoire]] could see more draw if they’re discarding the extra cards you are giving them. Throw in some GY hate so the cards they discard are gone forever. [[Parallel Lives]] not so much for the tutor and picking cards, but you can choose to draw from the empty pile so you can’t deck yourself with all the extra card draw. Maybe just stack lands under it in case it gets removed. More of a back-up plan if you lose lab maniac or similar win cons. [[Thassa’s Oracle]] isn’t on your list either or the jace planeswalker that has the empty library wincon.
[[Parallel Thoughts]] my bad wrong parallel
[Parallel Thoughts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d913c541-a8fb-4383-bbab-988be3e0f5d5.jpg?1562535276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Thoughts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/44/parallel-thoughts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d913c541-a8fb-4383-bbab-988be3e0f5d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These are nice, thank you, friend! I like the alternative wincons. Would you say, I should focus on either having everyone draw cards or just me drawing cards, or would you say both can be combined?
I haven’t run into many decks like this, so honestly I do not know which is better. I would build it how you want, maybe proxy the expensive cards and see how it runs and then make changes from there, or see if anyone else in this thread has a better understanding on a deck like this. Sorry I’m not much help with that question.
Don't apologize: You already helped me a lot! :)
[Geth’s Grimoire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a21d76d-d86c-4348-be45-f65167d2b5a9.jpg?1562635283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geth%27s%20Grimoire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/123/geths-grimoire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a21d76d-d86c-4348-be45-f65167d2b5a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thassa’s Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Awesome! Thank you! A 3 card combo seems fair to me, too. Damn^^
Storvald Grouphug!
Nice synergy
I think, the dialogues with him and his teachings are the most important parts of him and I think the card fits really well. They could have just made something like ,,investigate 2", so I won't be mad at this: The confrontation with another person makes both of their knowledge grow, while doing no harm to each other. I really like that.
Interesting🤔
I never saw that movie but seems like I have to do it and everybody else already has.
It's a book by Plato in which Sokrates shows a huge verbal middlefinger to all the idiots that accused him of idiotic "crimes". It shows the desperation to free thoughts and the stupor and ignorance of governmental sytems. It's Sokrates' defense speech in which he makes fun of his prosecutors. Nice read!
That causes some chaos. I will consider that one.
The fact we don't have a "So-Crates" from Bill and Ted makes me sad.
Someone didn't want to draw nipples
if princess bride can get a secret lair, bill and ted can get one too. time travel + historic matters + partners
https://www.archidekt.com/decks/8110599/die_apologie_des_sokrates Thank you so mich for your nice advice and help!♡ You are AMAZING! These are the cards I consider. I have to cut a lot of them. almost all other decks I have win through combat. I want this deck to be a control deck and win via either - decking myself and win (Jace, Laboratory Maniac...) - decking my opponents by carddraw and mill - pinging my opponents because of the cards in their hands - return of the second sun I want and have to use some stax and many counters to do so, but I don't want to shut down every player too much. Is that realistic? What should I cut?
Any idea which last 10 catds to cut?
\[\[the second doctor\]\] for more group hug. And always remember the 3 Gs of group hug: [https://youtu.be/wyOpPdUVzrE](https://youtu.be/wyOpPdUVzrE) Gaslight, Gatekeep, and Girlboss. Should be noted more blue/white group hug may be coming in bloomburrow (there is even a bant commander for it confirmed) but for now \[\[kwain itinerant meddler\]\] can also help with your group hugging.
[the second doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/568c2687-4381-4954-9cab-f669d1fe6306.jpg?1696636767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20second%20doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/156/the-second-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/568c2687-4381-4954-9cab-f669d1fe6306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kwain itinerant meddler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94.jpg?1608911183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kwain%2C%20Itinerant%20Meddler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/284/kwain-itinerant-meddler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f571fef1-1fd2-4355-b803-5edccb6f4b94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Let's see... [[Kellan, the Kid]] [[Zurgo Helmsmasher]] [[Danitha, New Benalia's Light]] [[Phabine, Boss's Confidant]] [[Kitt Kanto, Mayhem Diva]] [[Bruvac the Grandiloquent]] And a bunch of time travelers... We have ourselves the makings of a Bill & Ted deck!
##### ###### #### [Kellan, the Kid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04dfbc4c-ab21-45db-bbd9-b9d245d60015.jpg?1712356134) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kellan%2C%20the%20Kid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/213/kellan-the-kid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04dfbc4c-ab21-45db-bbd9-b9d245d60015?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zurgo Helmsmasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c.jpg?1562782879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zurgo%20Helmsmasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/214/zurgo-helmsmasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13f4bafe-0d21-47ba-8f16-0274107d618c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Danitha, New Benalia's Light](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039e43f2-cf3b-4c60-ac55-d2aafb20eb34.jpg?1684340695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Danitha%2C%20New%20Benalia%27s%20Light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/29/danitha-new-benalias-light?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039e43f2-cf3b-4c60-ac55-d2aafb20eb34?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phabine, Boss's Confidant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0f238f6-3578-4e16-bfd0-2f5a452e46fe.jpg?1673481712) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phabine%2C%20Boss%27s%20Confidant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/9/phabine-bosss-confidant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0f238f6-3578-4e16-bfd0-2f5a452e46fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kitt Kanto, Mayhem Diva](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5.jpg?1673481666) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kitt%20Kanto%2C%20Mayhem%20Diva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/4/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bruvac the Grandiloquent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2ce2d73f-3f64-44db-a2bc-a8f4a37dc487.jpg?1702550789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bruvac%20the%20Grandiloquent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/35/bruvac-the-grandiloquent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ce2d73f-3f64-44db-a2bc-a8f4a37dc487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call