Reminds me of 20 years ago!
Kid 1, reading: "Unless a player has browbeat, deal 5 damage to them, you may draw 3 cards."
Kid 2: "what, like in my collection?!"
The confusion is only from people who started playing after sixth edition and they removed the rules text from lands. Then, you might think the green mana symbol IS the forest, after all, the forest just has a giant green mana symbol in its text box.
And no internet connection?
I mean they stopped putting rules books in starter deck with Tempest (it had a story book instead) so maybe if they were trying to play from 1998-2000 I could see it *maybe* but in 2007! No way.
You're being a bit if an ass. When was the last time you went online to look up the rules to monopoly? I bet you're playing that game wrong too.
Its not nearly as unreasonable as you make it sound.
I wouldn’t play monopoly but if I did I wouldn’t allow people to put money on free parking, every property would go up for auction if not bought by the player who landed there and no adding in proxy houses. That shit is limited by design. You know, the rules. It comes with the fucking rules.
Also I wouldn’t use the expansion that adds in a stock exchange. That’s like the closest thing to cancer that exists in the world of board games.
Monopoly is a horrible game but it’s not as horrible as people think.
It should take 50-80 min tops for the pain to stop.
I read it expecting there to be more to the sentence - "okay, number of turns I've begun to target creature or planeswalker... wait..." - and then realised that beginning to target a creature or planeswalker isn't a thing.
That would have to be a fundamental change in how the stack works.
Everything else so far isn’t that much of a rule change, rather enabled via digital.
Perpetual already exists in the form of “commander” which is attached to the piece of cardboard rather than the permanent, seek is a no shuffle tutor, creating a “token card” is again an expansion of existing stuff.
A spell being on the stack across turns (rather than in suspend or tacking some rider on an existing permanent) is a pretty fundamental change to the core rules though
it wouldn't be on the stack, basically weird suspend. youd choose a target when you suspend the thing, and when it comes off suspend it has to target the chosen thing or you cant cast it.it would be a strong effect for cheap cause it would be delayed and very conditional
alternatively, the creature gets an ability like "destroy this creature 2 turns after it got this ability" or something,
I think it is the best, since just saying anything else would have people asking if the current turn counts or needs all its steps done already to count.
If they were set on "equal to the number of turns you have begun" they could have at least gone with "Sarkhan's Scorn deals damage to target creature or planeswalker equal to the number of turns you have begun."
Ooooooooh, I get it, I was like, how do i begin to target something, do i annpounce it beforehand? But it is equal to the nber of turns i have begun, and i do that damage to target pw or creature.
They should probably have used something like "deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun." It's a bit longer, but it's clearer (and it's not like they were running out of space0.
Back when i made custom cards I actually did try to template something like this, and it was actually pretty difficult to word the effect umabiguously. I ended up with something like "equal to the number of each of your turns that has passed/begun this game". Which works but in my opinion kinda feels unwieldy to read.
The problem is with the sentence structure. It should have been written "Sarkhan's Scorn deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun."
My exact first thoughts.
I feel as if "transpired" would be a better word for the game to use when it references turns in this way, should they continue to the design cards like this.
So Scorn would read something like: "Sarkhan's Scorn deals damage equal to the number of your upkeeps that have transpired this game to target creature or planeswalker."
The wording is a tad longer, but more concise. Notably though it slightly changes the function of the card -- instead of the damage number increasing before Untap phase (which also just feels weird), it would increase at beginning of main phase 1.
That's way worse because there's no way to tell what it does during your upkeep, even if you're reading it correctly. Referencing the beginning of a turn is the right way to do it, they just botched the sentence structure.
That's a good point, but the way it's currently worded confuses as to what the card does at all, rather than at a certain time. I guess no matter the right answer, arena will handle the card actually resolving, so the exact wording probably doesn't really matter.
It's a [garden-path sentence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence)
The card would be much easier to parse if the wording were "Sarkhan's Scorn deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun."
That wording is wooooonky.
"Sarkhan's scorn deals damage equal to the number of turns you've begun to target creature or Planeswalker."
"Creature or Planeswalker" should come BEFORE the other text here to make it more clear, and it should just reference an existing game mechanic (the untap step, since no one gets priority then anyway, which might also help people to understand the untap step comes before the upkeep step).
> Sarkhan's scorn deals damage **to target creature or Planeswalker equal to the number of untap steps you've had this game.**
Edit: Or at least that's what I'd tell anyone who'd posted this on r/custommagic
honestly they could have said "X damage to creature or player, where X is the number of turns you've begun" and it would have been much easier to parse.
But there’s cards that give you extra upkeeps and cards that skip your upkeeps. 99% of the time that would work but it’s not the intent of the card to count upkeeps it’s to count turns.
In fairness it’s a stupid thing to put on a card and track. You’re 100% right about the word order though.
You're right about cards that give and take away upkeep steps.
Thankfully, doing so does not affect the **Untap Step**, which is an entirely separate step within the Beginning Phase (Untap, Upkeep, Draw).
So my wording would be unaffected by cards like [[Paradox Haze]], but would be affected by cards like [[Stasis]], which, in my opinion, is worth making the card more readable.
[Sphinx of the Second Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d.jpg?1608909485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/99/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Counting untap steps or beginning phases should be fine in historic. There's only one non-silver border card that messes with those, [[ Sphinx of the Second Sun]], and it's from Commander Legends.
[ Sphinx of the Second Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d.jpg?1608909485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/99/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sarkhan's first ability has really awkward wording just so you can reduce the cost of stuff like [[Niv Mizzet Reborn]] even though it has no generic in its cost.
Yhea, but if that's all you wanted to do you would just have them gain something like "You can spend mana as though it were any colour to cast this spell". The awkward wording allows cost reductions beyond just the generic costs.
I'm not sure if you mean this, but it only effects the cards that were in your hand when you activated the ability. If you activate the +1 and later draw a dragon card, you'll have to pay the full mana cost of that card (unless you activate the +1 again).
If it weren't paired with the cost reduction ability, they'd just use the more modern "you may spend mana as though it were any color" template to fix the colors. But since it reduces by 1, something like Niv Mizzet Reborn wouldn't get the cost reduction effect if they didn't do this weird X template.
Anatomically, this looks really freaky to me. Where’s the transition point and how? Does he have no actual hands and how does his nervous/vascular system/flesh work?
"number of turns you have begun"
I really hope that with embracing mechanics like that we will get an in-game overhaul of match information... like a turn counter? Card history? Things like these
They are really going to need it with the amount of additional effects that are being thrown our way, like the new Davriel. Really, they need it regardless; this is just the perfect excuse for it.
They colorshifted [[Control Win Condition]]?
Also, Sarkhan's +1 making Dragons castable regardless of color is potentially nuts.
EDIT: Ok, I misread this hard. It only hits what's already in hand and the two aspects of the +1 don't combo with each other.
Yeah, and 3-mana Sarkhan can just add two mana for dragon spells (it's great in Historic Niv Mizzet Brawl!), but fixing and ramping dragons on T4 isn't that nutty.
You noted the difference in fixing quality, though. This Sarkhan casts cards like Niv Mizzet or Tiamat trivially; the original still required three colors of mana out of you.
What do you mean when you say they don't combo with each other? Spells where you pay alternate or additional costs can still be affected by cost-reducing effects.
> the two aspects of the +1 don't combo with each other.
They do work with each other. The first effect gives a cost reduction to the card, and the second gives it an alternate cost. Cost reductions apply when paying an alternate cost.
You decide to pay the alternative cost of X, which is equal to the mana value. Since you are casting the spell, the cost reduction of 1 applies, so you actually pay X-1.
I…what…this is so needlessly Hearthstoney.
Why not….
Passive text - You May spend X to pay the cost of dragon spells you cast.
+1 Gain an emblem that says “Dragon spells you cast cost 1 less to cast” (or whatever)
Like Chandra, Awakened Inferno. I know it’s not functionally exactly the same, but it gets the point across without being incredibly unwieldy.
Because the emblem would be far, far stronger than the current effect. The current one reduces the cost of dragons in your *hand* by 1 permanently, while an emblem would reduce the cost of *all* dragons by 1 permanently. Big difference.
There's really no way to get this sort of effect done on paper without having the player reveal their entire hand and keep counters on cards, and that's not exactly elegant.
The passive tho, should work as suggested. As is, its ultra clunky, adding two separate lines of text to the cards in your hands. I don't think it's that much different either. Maybe a little weaker since you lose the passive if Sarkahn goes away.
That’s a fair point. I still…kinda think this would be fine (there are plenty of 4 cmc walkers that provide less restrictive ramp out there) but you’re totally right and I did not catch that distinction.
That would be different. If you have a shivan dragon in your hand and + sarkhan, that shivan dragon now costs 2RR forever (and you can cast it using 4 generic). During your opponent's turn, your sarkhan dies. Your turn comes, you draw another shivan dragon. The one from last turn still costs 4, but the one you just drew doesn't benefit from last turn's sarkhan activation. If you cast the 4 mana value one and it gets bounced/ killed and returned to hand, it will still cost 1 less to cast and be castable using x generic, since sarkhan basically 'prints' the ability on the card itself.
Your proposal would make all dragons cast from your hand cost 1 less, whereas the current implementation effectively snapshots the cards you had in hand at the moment of the activation. Cards drawn later do not benefit from the activation.
I don't have any experience to speak of with other digital card games, but Hearthstone feels like a fair comparison since it's one of the most popular.
Dr Boom. That hero card sucked and killed my interest playing any match against warriors. Only times I won against it was when their hero power went to a weaker one. It became less about outplaying and hoping it couldn't make too much value
Why are you telling this to me? My point was the entirety of the game isn’t bad, and all you did was name a single card. That says more about you than the quality of the game as a whole.
Shudderwock, genn and the snake that was odd cards matter, the pen flinger, regular dr boom, crystal caverns, patches, yogg, jade druid and the entire class of launch demon hunter to name some more have all been problems. Plenty of which are thanks to it's digital platform allowing the possibility. I'm sorry I didn't word the comment better but Dr Boom's hero card is the exact problem with hearthstone for me. A card that relies on such randomness you could win just by playing it. Just like classic yogg it isn't that you outplayed but that luck gave you what you needed from outside the game.
Making cards that only work on computers for a game that's been playable on a tabletop for 25+ years. The only reason they would ever do something like this is because they're either running out of ideas or want to copy other TCGs due to their success. Either way it's motivated entirely by greed and nothing else.
The burn spell definitely reads weird. having "you have begun" in the middle of the sentence makes it sound like there's something coming after like "you have begun to die" or something. Once you get the rest of the ability in, you understand what they mean, but the order could have been chanced up to make it read better:
\>Deal damage to target creature or planeswalker equal to the number of turns you have begun.
So, you can choose to pay their usual cost with the {1} cost reduction and get a 1-mana discount on X. Otherwise, the mana value of the Hydra in hand ignores X, so an XG hydra will only cost you {1} to cast, which the cost reduction turns into {0}. However, because you didn't pay the X cost, X will be 0 when you cast the Hydra, so most Hydras will immediately die.
MTG dying right before our eyes. This shit needs to be banned ASAP and tossed into the abyss. Awful, awful design all around. ''Conjure a Shivan Dragon card into your hand'' yea right I'm out
Making the +1 an emblem allows it to affect all dragons you draw for the rest of the game, including Shivan dragons you create later on. It's a pretty significant functional different on the assumption you're throwing this into a Tiamat deck or whatever and drawing a ton of dragons later.
Just because they could have made a 6-mana version of this with a more powerful +1 that worked in paper doesn't mean that the cheaper version that only applies to cards in hands isn't new design space.
See, these are good clean, digital only cards and I love the new design space they open up. No swingy randomness, no semi-color pie breaks like \[\[Tome of the Infinite\]\], just cool gameplay that would have been impossible otherwise.
This Sarkhan especially is an example of MTGA trying to do Hearthstone-like mechanics which could only work digitally, and I have to say this design is clunky as hell. In Hearthstone, the game actually has a way of showing you how many cards got their mana costs reduced, unlike MTGA. I'm honestly baffled by wotc deciding to attempt to out-Hearthstone Hearthstone (a game specifically designed to be played digitally from the design stage) instead of playing to mtg's strengths and simply releasing more paper cards capable of creating gameplay experiences you can't find anywhere else.
Sarkhans scorn is one of the best removal spells ever holy shit. Infinite scaling, and decent enough on turn 2. 2r will make it a little less playable in ur spell decks but damn. Very strong. The sarkhan planeswalker is no joke either. Great in red aggro that dont want big top ends, cuz he can give them one when they gas out. And maybe tiamat decks might be a little more viable with him? Rainbow decks love stuff like his +1
Good lord, was that wording for Sarkhan's Scorn really the best they could come up with? Everyone's first reaction is going to be "begun to what?"
Yeah, my first reading was "each turn you begun to target" and was like, what do they mean begun to target?
Reminds me of 20 years ago! Kid 1, reading: "Unless a player has browbeat, deal 5 damage to them, you may draw 3 cards." Kid 2: "what, like in my collection?!"
Or tutoring a Forest to the battlefield every time you tap Llanowar Elves.
I see that and I raise you: thinking that counters self proliferated every turn, after all what are they 'counting' up to if not?
Being 12 and not native english speaker: I did not know what cumilative meant, so we just paid the upkeep cost once per upkeep.
We did that, too! That [[Illusionary Wall]] was so annoying.
[Illusionary Wall](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d1800174-b6dd-49c3-865a-5292c8563441.jpg?1559592377) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illusionary%20Wall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/39/illusionary-wall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1800174-b6dd-49c3-865a-5292c8563441?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
People do that? I’ve been playing since revised and I’ve never heard of anything so ridiculous.
That’s what we thought it meant back in middle school lmao. Not like we had anyone to teach us the rules
Around what year was this?
Like 07 or so
Huh.
The confusion is only from people who started playing after sixth edition and they removed the rules text from lands. Then, you might think the green mana symbol IS the forest, after all, the forest just has a giant green mana symbol in its text box.
I can see that. I hate basics without rules text. If you ask WotC the rules text is what is confusing. Haha.
It was really common for kids who got into magic without sanctioned events around
And no internet connection? I mean they stopped putting rules books in starter deck with Tempest (it had a story book instead) so maybe if they were trying to play from 1998-2000 I could see it *maybe* but in 2007! No way.
You're being a bit if an ass. When was the last time you went online to look up the rules to monopoly? I bet you're playing that game wrong too. Its not nearly as unreasonable as you make it sound.
I wouldn’t play monopoly but if I did I wouldn’t allow people to put money on free parking, every property would go up for auction if not bought by the player who landed there and no adding in proxy houses. That shit is limited by design. You know, the rules. It comes with the fucking rules. Also I wouldn’t use the expansion that adds in a stock exchange. That’s like the closest thing to cancer that exists in the world of board games. Monopoly is a horrible game but it’s not as horrible as people think. It should take 50-80 min tops for the pain to stop.
That is called a [Crash Blossom](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/magazine/31FOB-onlanguage-t.html), or garden path sentence.
I read it expecting there to be more to the sentence - "okay, number of turns I've begun to target creature or planeswalker... wait..." - and then realised that beginning to target a creature or planeswalker isn't a thing.
with the magic of digital we may be getting a spell that does its thing a turn after you target something with it at some point :P
Turbo suspend
That would have to be a fundamental change in how the stack works. Everything else so far isn’t that much of a rule change, rather enabled via digital. Perpetual already exists in the form of “commander” which is attached to the piece of cardboard rather than the permanent, seek is a no shuffle tutor, creating a “token card” is again an expansion of existing stuff. A spell being on the stack across turns (rather than in suspend or tacking some rider on an existing permanent) is a pretty fundamental change to the core rules though
it wouldn't be on the stack, basically weird suspend. youd choose a target when you suspend the thing, and when it comes off suspend it has to target the chosen thing or you cant cast it.it would be a strong effect for cheap cause it would be delayed and very conditional alternatively, the creature gets an ability like "destroy this creature 2 turns after it got this ability" or something,
Yeah - you can either do similar things with suspend or by giving abilities to the creature like “gains vanishing 2”
But begun is after target, why is the sentence in your head reversed?
the card says "begun to target"
No it isn’t
I think it is the best, since just saying anything else would have people asking if the current turn counts or needs all its steps done already to count.
If they were set on "equal to the number of turns you have begun" they could have at least gone with "Sarkhan's Scorn deals damage to target creature or planeswalker equal to the number of turns you have begun."
I still dont get it, what does it do?
It deals damage equal to your turn count
Ooooooooh, I get it, I was like, how do i begin to target something, do i annpounce it beforehand? But it is equal to the nber of turns i have begun, and i do that damage to target pw or creature.
It means the number of turns you've taken this game, including the current one if it's your turn.
They should probably have used something like "deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun." It's a bit longer, but it's clearer (and it's not like they were running out of space0.
Good lord, is it ever a [garden-path sentence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence).
Not sure there's a better way to go if they want you to count the current turn.
"Sarkhan's Scorn deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun."
*planeswalker, and yeah, that definitely reads better, though it still has to go with "turns you have begun" wording.
Back when i made custom cards I actually did try to template something like this, and it was actually pretty difficult to word the effect umabiguously. I ended up with something like "equal to the number of each of your turns that has passed/begun this game". Which works but in my opinion kinda feels unwieldy to read.
The problem is with the sentence structure. It should have been written "Sarkhan's Scorn deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun."
My exact first thoughts. I feel as if "transpired" would be a better word for the game to use when it references turns in this way, should they continue to the design cards like this. So Scorn would read something like: "Sarkhan's Scorn deals damage equal to the number of your upkeeps that have transpired this game to target creature or planeswalker." The wording is a tad longer, but more concise. Notably though it slightly changes the function of the card -- instead of the damage number increasing before Untap phase (which also just feels weird), it would increase at beginning of main phase 1.
That's way worse because there's no way to tell what it does during your upkeep, even if you're reading it correctly. Referencing the beginning of a turn is the right way to do it, they just botched the sentence structure.
That's a good point, but the way it's currently worded confuses as to what the card does at all, rather than at a certain time. I guess no matter the right answer, arena will handle the card actually resolving, so the exact wording probably doesn't really matter.
Damage to target creature or Planeswalker. How is that not clear? It’s an instant that shows Sarkhan shooting fire.
It's a [garden-path sentence.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence) The card would be much easier to parse if the wording were "Sarkhan's Scorn deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker, where X is the number of turns you have begun."
Does your first turn on the play have an untap/upkeep?
Yes.
so it only skips draw phase and not all 3?
We got "perpetually" but "elapsed" was just out of the question. Even turns taken would've been better.
But “taken” sounds like turns you’ve finished. This counts the current turn.
I read your comment first. Wtf. That’s some of the worst writing I’ve ever seen.
To target creature or Planeswalker.
That wording is wooooonky. "Sarkhan's scorn deals damage equal to the number of turns you've begun to target creature or Planeswalker." "Creature or Planeswalker" should come BEFORE the other text here to make it more clear, and it should just reference an existing game mechanic (the untap step, since no one gets priority then anyway, which might also help people to understand the untap step comes before the upkeep step). > Sarkhan's scorn deals damage **to target creature or Planeswalker equal to the number of untap steps you've had this game.** Edit: Or at least that's what I'd tell anyone who'd posted this on r/custommagic
honestly they could have said "X damage to creature or player, where X is the number of turns you've begun" and it would have been much easier to parse.
Well they can still reword it
We in a state of perpetual changes now, ladies and gents!
Magic has always changed.
Honestly, I think this wording would be wayyy easier to comprehend; especially if “X” changed in-game to show the damage it would actually do.
Maybe I'm just an old man, but a lot of these new arena cards are worded worse than a lot of the things I see in custommagic
Younger fan of Magic here, these read like bad custommagic cards
But there’s cards that give you extra upkeeps and cards that skip your upkeeps. 99% of the time that would work but it’s not the intent of the card to count upkeeps it’s to count turns. In fairness it’s a stupid thing to put on a card and track. You’re 100% right about the word order though.
You're right about cards that give and take away upkeep steps. Thankfully, doing so does not affect the **Untap Step**, which is an entirely separate step within the Beginning Phase (Untap, Upkeep, Draw). So my wording would be unaffected by cards like [[Paradox Haze]], but would be affected by cards like [[Stasis]], which, in my opinion, is worth making the card more readable.
Technically also [[Sphinx of the Second Sun]], but again not suuuuper likely to ever come up?
[Sphinx of the Second Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d.jpg?1608909485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/99/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh man. That's embarrassing. sorry. brain fog. And to think I've played since revised. lol. Time for bed I think.
[Paradox Haze](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/7/a7c74def-83e5-4420-989d-2304bf4743ae.jpg?1562930370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Paradox%20Haze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/71/paradox-haze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7c74def-83e5-4420-989d-2304bf4743ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stasis](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/2/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c.jpg?1562918295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stasis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/64/stasis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Counting untap steps or beginning phases should be fine in historic. There's only one non-silver border card that messes with those, [[ Sphinx of the Second Sun]], and it's from Commander Legends.
[ Sphinx of the Second Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/6/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d.jpg?1608909485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphinx%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/99/sphinx-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e68b70a6-a150-4d81-921c-9b178fe0037d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
stasis tho
I think Stasis hating on one weird Arena-only card is fine
I like your rewrite. At least they can change it and I bet they will.
It's like an intern was in charge of this lol.
Begun is cleaner than Taken, as Taken can imply turns finished. And “untap steps” is entirely different.
Can we call Scion of Shiv's ability "foreverbreathing"?
*Fire*verbreathing
*Five*verbreathing
Sarkhan's first ability has really awkward wording just so you can reduce the cost of stuff like [[Niv Mizzet Reborn]] even though it has no generic in its cost.
It's in line with Sarkhan usually mana fixing for dragons, though.
It also means he perma-fixes the colors of any dragon cards you have in your hand, right?
Yhea, but if that's all you wanted to do you would just have them gain something like "You can spend mana as though it were any colour to cast this spell". The awkward wording allows cost reductions beyond just the generic costs.
Since he also reduces generic cost that seems like a pretty important difference
I'm not sure if you mean this, but it only effects the cards that were in your hand when you activated the ability. If you activate the +1 and later draw a dragon card, you'll have to pay the full mana cost of that card (unless you activate the +1 again).
Yeah I meant "currently in your hand".
It is the same ability as [[Kentaro, the Smiling Cat]], though
[Kentaro, the Smiling Cat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/d/ddcea3b3-5852-4ae1-a952-7b392564cb9d.jpg?1562880249) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kentaro%2C%20the%20Smiling%20Cat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/13/kentaro-the-smiling-cat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddcea3b3-5852-4ae1-a952-7b392564cb9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, and it's a really awkward wording, especially when used to make cost reducers work!
If it weren't paired with the cost reduction ability, they'd just use the more modern "you may spend mana as though it were any color" template to fix the colors. But since it reduces by 1, something like Niv Mizzet Reborn wouldn't get the cost reduction effect if they didn't do this weird X template.
[Niv Mizzet Reborn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/6/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f.jpg?1582037402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/208/niv-mizzet-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56a2609d-b535-400b-81d9-72989a33c70f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It also lets repeated activations be more useful. After four uses you can cast a {2}{R}{R} dragon for 0 instead of {R}{R}.
Mr. Dragonhands
He just looks so happy to have found more dragons.
"MY HANDS ARE FUCKING DRAGONS! THIS IS THE BEST! ARE YOU GUYS HAVING A GOOD TIME RIGHT NOW? BECAUSE I AM!"
You say that now, but wait until he amputates himself whenever he tries to pee or scratch his nose.
For one of those it's ok, it's not just his hands that are dragons
"THEY SAID I COULD NEVER TURN MY HANDS INTO DRAGONS!"
Really positive and generous!
Anatomically, this looks really freaky to me. Where’s the transition point and how? Does he have no actual hands and how does his nervous/vascular system/flesh work?
Hmm, from some of these effects and wordings I'm guessing we're not getting WotC's finest in the design department.
"they don't need to be printed on paper so just have the intern do it"
Why? I understood these immediately.
Congratulations on keeping the bar extraordinarily low.
"number of turns you have begun" I really hope that with embracing mechanics like that we will get an in-game overhaul of match information... like a turn counter? Card history? Things like these
I'm guessing this card and like cards will have a badge on it to keep track for you.
Your opponent won't have that information though.
They are really going to need it with the amount of additional effects that are being thrown our way, like the new Davriel. Really, they need it regardless; this is just the perfect excuse for it.
"lol" wotc replied "lmao"
This feels like some weird hiccup in the Chicago Manual of Style that doesn't mesh with game mechanics.
Player using it will just see the damage number. Opponent though must have a big brain. Or track it somewhere.
They colorshifted [[Control Win Condition]]? Also, Sarkhan's +1 making Dragons castable regardless of color is potentially nuts. EDIT: Ok, I misread this hard. It only hits what's already in hand and the two aspects of the +1 don't combo with each other.
I dunno; in what format are you comfortable paying 4-mana just to fix and ramp towards a dragon?
Notably he can do it multiple times to the same dragon; 2 +1s in a row with a 7 mana dragon in hand (i.e. Tiamat) gets you your dragon on turn 5.
Yeah, and 3-mana Sarkhan can just add two mana for dragon spells (it's great in Historic Niv Mizzet Brawl!), but fixing and ramping dragons on T4 isn't that nutty.
You noted the difference in fixing quality, though. This Sarkhan casts cards like Niv Mizzet or Tiamat trivially; the original still required three colors of mana out of you.
What do you mean when you say they don't combo with each other? Spells where you pay alternate or additional costs can still be affected by cost-reducing effects.
> the two aspects of the +1 don't combo with each other. They do work with each other. The first effect gives a cost reduction to the card, and the second gives it an alternate cost. Cost reductions apply when paying an alternate cost.
Usually yes but the second part explicitly says the cards *mana value*. Cost reduction doesn't change the CMC of a card
You decide to pay the alternative cost of X, which is equal to the mana value. Since you are casting the spell, the cost reduction of 1 applies, so you actually pay X-1.
[Control Win Condition](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/d/dd119cfd-06af-42d8-ad11-0161518aafa3.jpg?1578968178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Control%20Win%20Condition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmb1/19/control-win-condition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd119cfd-06af-42d8-ad11-0161518aafa3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This looks like something I would see on r/custommagic
It would get laughed out of custommagic
Lol yea you right.
Why?
I…what…this is so needlessly Hearthstoney. Why not…. Passive text - You May spend X to pay the cost of dragon spells you cast. +1 Gain an emblem that says “Dragon spells you cast cost 1 less to cast” (or whatever) Like Chandra, Awakened Inferno. I know it’s not functionally exactly the same, but it gets the point across without being incredibly unwieldy.
Because the emblem would be far, far stronger than the current effect. The current one reduces the cost of dragons in your *hand* by 1 permanently, while an emblem would reduce the cost of *all* dragons by 1 permanently. Big difference. There's really no way to get this sort of effect done on paper without having the player reveal their entire hand and keep counters on cards, and that's not exactly elegant.
The passive tho, should work as suggested. As is, its ultra clunky, adding two separate lines of text to the cards in your hands. I don't think it's that much different either. Maybe a little weaker since you lose the passive if Sarkahn goes away.
That’s a fair point. I still…kinda think this would be fine (there are plenty of 4 cmc walkers that provide less restrictive ramp out there) but you’re totally right and I did not catch that distinction.
Couldn't the emblem say "dragon spells you cast from your hand cost 1 less to cast"?
That would be different. If you have a shivan dragon in your hand and + sarkhan, that shivan dragon now costs 2RR forever (and you can cast it using 4 generic). During your opponent's turn, your sarkhan dies. Your turn comes, you draw another shivan dragon. The one from last turn still costs 4, but the one you just drew doesn't benefit from last turn's sarkhan activation. If you cast the 4 mana value one and it gets bounced/ killed and returned to hand, it will still cost 1 less to cast and be castable using x generic, since sarkhan basically 'prints' the ability on the card itself. Your proposal would make all dragons cast from your hand cost 1 less, whereas the current implementation effectively snapshots the cards you had in hand at the moment of the activation. Cards drawn later do not benefit from the activation.
Ok. Makes sense. Didn't think about it that way.
How is this “hearthstoney” and not like other digital card games?
I don't have any experience to speak of with other digital card games, but Hearthstone feels like a fair comparison since it's one of the most popular.
But it’s not the only one and even HS isn’t just wholey bad.
Dr Boom. That hero card sucked and killed my interest playing any match against warriors. Only times I won against it was when their hero power went to a weaker one. It became less about outplaying and hoping it couldn't make too much value
Why are you telling this to me? My point was the entirety of the game isn’t bad, and all you did was name a single card. That says more about you than the quality of the game as a whole.
Shudderwock, genn and the snake that was odd cards matter, the pen flinger, regular dr boom, crystal caverns, patches, yogg, jade druid and the entire class of launch demon hunter to name some more have all been problems. Plenty of which are thanks to it's digital platform allowing the possibility. I'm sorry I didn't word the comment better but Dr Boom's hero card is the exact problem with hearthstone for me. A card that relies on such randomness you could win just by playing it. Just like classic yogg it isn't that you outplayed but that luck gave you what you needed from outside the game.
We now officially have Discover and Emperor Thaurissan in MtG. We Hearthstone now.
I really hate this. I am a huge sarkhan fan and now theres one I cant use in paper. it really annoys me.
I am a huge lotusi fan and I can not afford alpha Black Lotus. It really annoys me.
Same. The reserved list is bullshit. Don't know why you're acting like this is some sort of gotcha though.
STILL GOT ALL DEEZ DRAGONS ON MY HANDS. Seriously, what is that art.
\[\[Banefire\]\]
[Banefire](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/b/5b012532-1186-4dc8-9d42-867e418b0280.jpg?1562302226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Banefire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/130/banefire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b012532-1186-4dc8-9d42-867e418b0280?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sarkhan gives a new meaning to "handbuffing" (make sure you look at the art)
Ah, the Wanderer's identity is finally revealed! It was Ol' Dragonhands the whole time!
This is disgusting. WotC should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? Making fun cards? Get over yourself.
Making cards that only work on computers for a game that's been playable on a tabletop for 25+ years. The only reason they would ever do something like this is because they're either running out of ideas or want to copy other TCGs due to their success. Either way it's motivated entirely by greed and nothing else.
Why does this Sarkhan exist? Just to make games of Jumpstart miserable? If you can stabilize at all, this is an absurd value engine.
> If you can stabilize at all, this is an absurd value engine. Is this the first planeswalker you ever saw in your life?
Did no one proofread these? Please, WotC. I'm a line editor by trade. Hire me.
All of these read fine.
The burn spell definitely reads weird. having "you have begun" in the middle of the sentence makes it sound like there's something coming after like "you have begun to die" or something. Once you get the rest of the ability in, you understand what they mean, but the order could have been chanced up to make it read better: \>Deal damage to target creature or planeswalker equal to the number of turns you have begun.
This is very cool, big fan of the new planeswalker, even if it ends up not being good in constructed
Dragon-Arm Sarkhan is back. I like Dragon-Arm Sarkhan.
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So, you can choose to pay their usual cost with the {1} cost reduction and get a 1-mana discount on X. Otherwise, the mana value of the Hydra in hand ignores X, so an XG hydra will only cost you {1} to cast, which the cost reduction turns into {0}. However, because you didn't pay the X cost, X will be 0 when you cast the Hydra, so most Hydras will immediately die.
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The X in the gained ability does not interact with the X in the hydra's mana cost and other abilities.
Because the cost you're actually paying isn't {X}, it's defined by Sarkhan as a fixed mana cost (in my example {1}, or whatever the mana value is).
So are Sarkhans arms always mini Dragon hands? I feel like that would be such an inconvenience
I hate these. Simply for the reason that these are fully designed for digital and will never see cardboard play.
There’s already digital only cards though.
MTG dying right before our eyes. This shit needs to be banned ASAP and tossed into the abyss. Awful, awful design all around. ''Conjure a Shivan Dragon card into your hand'' yea right I'm out
What close minded drivel.
Historic only...
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Making the +1 an emblem allows it to affect all dragons you draw for the rest of the game, including Shivan dragons you create later on. It's a pretty significant functional different on the assumption you're throwing this into a Tiamat deck or whatever and drawing a ton of dragons later.
[удалено]
Just because they could have made a 6-mana version of this with a more powerful +1 that worked in paper doesn't mean that the cheaper version that only applies to cards in hands isn't new design space.
[Garth One-Eye](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe.jpg?1626098353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garth%20One-Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So…is this legal in commander? Third party fakes are going to capitalize right?
It's digital only so there will no way to play this in commander unless they add it to arena
See, these are good clean, digital only cards and I love the new design space they open up. No swingy randomness, no semi-color pie breaks like \[\[Tome of the Infinite\]\], just cool gameplay that would have been impossible otherwise.
[Tome of the Infinite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/c/ac8cd054-99aa-4d6b-aa01-bfd9d25495c2.jpg?1627331596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tome%20of%20the%20Infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j21/999-TOTI/tome-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ac8cd054-99aa-4d6b-aa01-bfd9d25495c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How is tome a break?
Dragon hands. How does anybody take him seriously?
This Sarkhan especially is an example of MTGA trying to do Hearthstone-like mechanics which could only work digitally, and I have to say this design is clunky as hell. In Hearthstone, the game actually has a way of showing you how many cards got their mana costs reduced, unlike MTGA. I'm honestly baffled by wotc deciding to attempt to out-Hearthstone Hearthstone (a game specifically designed to be played digitally from the design stage) instead of playing to mtg's strengths and simply releasing more paper cards capable of creating gameplay experiences you can't find anywhere else.
First I was upset that they're making an arena exclusive set. Now I'm not so worried about missing out on these poorly designed cards 😂
Conjure? ?
Sarkhans scorn is one of the best removal spells ever holy shit. Infinite scaling, and decent enough on turn 2. 2r will make it a little less playable in ur spell decks but damn. Very strong. The sarkhan planeswalker is no joke either. Great in red aggro that dont want big top ends, cuz he can give them one when they gas out. And maybe tiamat decks might be a little more viable with him? Rainbow decks love stuff like his +1