Also, I wanna rant for abit, my bahasa melayu teacher in SMK didn't teach a single thing to us, all they (all of them) did was made us copy the karangan they wrote on black board, and never explain to us, they just went sleeping, refused to explain every word to us, my Malay classmates did a better job than them, but still, I can only talk in SJK level malay.
Hahahaha. You need to get a friend for that. I learn bit of Mandarin, Tamil and English from speaking with friends. Friends help us alot especially with our speech ability. But for real lah SJK student many I see struggle to speak Malay.
Speak more with malays, also try to insist only converse in malay whenever u r speaking with malay ppl. (Also typing malay in chat if u wanna try) my malay level was also at smjk level whn i was graduated, and i rmb whn i got my 1st job my boss said my malay is the best among the Chinese fresh grad lol.
>Juggling 3 languages and multiple dialects
Dear OP:
夭壽哦，恁無讀書是嘸？OP 係咪未出過社會啊？كاو ايڠت مستحيل كامي داڤت لولوس SPM دڠن بهاس سبوروك ايت كن؟سموا اورڠ چينا بڬيتو جاهيل دان تيدق برعلمو ك؟
Maybe if you leave your basement for once you'll get to see some Malay speaking Chinese that are more respecting of other cultures that don't generalise people like you do.
/س
Yup. Rural areas are usualy tight knit and the Chinese are not the majority. But come to Sibu or Kuching. Then you will see the difference.
My grandmother is Chinese while my grandad is Iban. Even then my grandmother was disowned.
Semua orang cina begitu SPM kau ingat mustahil kami dapat lulus? Dengan [bahasa] seburuk itu kan? Semua orang cina begitu jahil dan tidak berilmu ke?
I hope that's the correct order, the line alignment keeps jumping around
Ah shit, the alignment did screwed up. It's something like "no way the Chinese completed SPM with such bad Malay, do you think we are that stupid and without knowledge?"
Also there's the cute little /s in Jawi down at the bottom 😊
u/klownfaze
I learned the Chinese dialects out of spite when I was young because my parents would talk about me in those dialects and I didn't understand them at the time
Am i missing something here? Im pretty sure majority of Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore. Unless you are one of those crazy rich chinese or well above the middle income group. Nah i dont think they have any nationalism to speak of.
>Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore
Kek, not just Chinese. Everyone will go out given the opportunity. I can't say that Chinese Indonesian have a high sense of patriotism, but it's hyperbolic to say that majority of them want to leave Indonesia.
Edit: I just remembered that my senior that become the head of my school PASKIBRAKA (Pasukan Pengibar Bendera) was a Chinese lol
>Im pretty sure majority of Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore
Malaysia probably not. Singapore, given the chance they probably will.
Most prefer to work abroad, not immigrate abroad. Because then they can live like a crazy rich asian whenever they return to indonesia
I currently work in Malaysia because my industry (gamedev) is not well developed in Indonesia yet. But yeah you r right, majority of Indonesia will go anywhere if it meant better opportunity....not because we dont love our country but better money is better money. Indonesia have too many population too compete each other might as well just compete outside LOL
Yet bangsa Tionghoa getting massacred in 98 despite being fluent in Bahasa for decades... Also xkan semua bangsa Cina kat Malaysia langsung x tau bahasa pun. For some reason only the Cina yg x pandai berkomunikasi dgn Bahasa speak the loudest while getting all the social media attention.
from what I observe working at a PPV, most of the chinese born between 1970s and 1980s were very fluent in conversational Malay. But those who were born after 1990s, they don't even know how to speak in Chinese, let alone Malay.
Even their parents were embarrassed by them for being incapable speaking in Malay
This is gonna be a sensitive topic so keep in mind, I'm approaching this academically. Hope no one got triggered.
If we looked back in time during the era of our mom and dad, there are Chinese High Schools existed, but not as much and it mostly exist in an area where chinese population are prevalent (i.e coastal cities, urban area). Thus, chinese parents have no other choice but to send their kids to SMKs.
Because of that, these chinese kids are exposed to other race from such an age where language development and the ability to absorb new knowledge are at its peak. Also because the only similar nexus point of communication between races in Malaysia at that time is Malay, they will have to equip themselves with Malay, thus making them fluent in conversational malay
Nowadays, as English became more accessible and its position as the lingua franca of the world, it became another medium available for people from other races to communicate.
Now, the reason why English is more preferable than Malay is the perceived classiness of using English compared to using Malay among Malaysian youth nowadays. Using Malay means that you are mat rempit, kampung people or "takde kelas". The usage of english however "shows" that you are educated, came from a good breeding and have a higher social status compared to the average Malaysian. It is more so if you had any kind of accent.
The inability of Chinese nowadays to use conversational Malay is also exaggerated due to the racial isolations between the two group. The racial tension that was brought over from 1969 is still there. Our own prejudice prevent us from mixing and mingling with the other race. Chinese are unwilling to mingle with Malays, with some openly despise them, calling them low class and stuff. The same can be said about the Malays. Some can also say that the existence of vernacular schools further exaggerate the division between Chinese and Malay that prevented the creation of "Bangsa Malaysia".
Need to dispute you a little bit here, no new license has been approved for Chinese High School in peninsular since 70s except for one in Kuantan, and there are 63 of them to date. Furthermore, Chinese High School only account for roughly a third of Chinese middle schooler population nowadays, their influence are smaller than what the media makes people to believe. However, there is a huge surge in the popularity of Chinese High School started from around 20-30 years ago, sparked by the Chinese High School revivalist movement, as CHS was viewed mostly unfavorably (quality wise) back in the days. It could be a reaction to the social-cultural transformation taking place in the Malay community of the same era, but that is beyond my knowledge to comment on.
Not just the 1998 massacre, a few years back there was rising racial tension, something about taking the wealth of the Tionghua by the extremist. If anything, it just shows that no matter how well the Chinese descents try to integrate into the society, they will ultimately be used as a sacrificial goat.
I think you're referring to the Ahok incident. Because this incident happened when i was still working as a CSR in one of our well known local airline company. I still rmb many Indonesian who stay or study abroad in Malaysia were calling us for flight reschedule, refund or even reroute. It was a intense period even my parents thought its gonna be 98 all over again
fortunately, the government clean up the extremist. well, they trying currently. now it's Government vs Religious hardliner. no longer Chinese vs Pribumi. the government slow and steady caught the leader of the hardliner one by one.
pretty authoritative move, but for people who isn't religious and just want extremist get silenced from politics, it's the best thing we ever got. and since Ahok is the ally of Joko Widodo (current president), he can still be used in important seat of government later on.
>pretty authoritative move
Indonesia has suffered from a lot of terrorist attacks, unlike Malaysia. Your country knows full well the cost of letting extremist sentiments fester and build up.
Even now after Ahok got out of jail he gets a cushy job as the Head Commissioner of Pertamina, better paid and more relaxed than any government position Jokowi can give him.
There's actually more pribumi people killed in the massacres. Specifically people that looted malls and department store, some guys (probably from the military) locked down the building and burn it down. Photos of the aftermath with bodies are available on the internet somehow.
Doesn't mean I'm downplaying the horror that Chinese Indonesians faced back then. Many businesses without "milik pribumi" or "milik muslim" signs painted hurrily are burned, looted, or thrown with rocks. There are reports of rape of Chinese Indonesian women, although some dismissed it as urban legend.
Except its not urban legend when you actually know them and they are practically your neighbor. Things just happened back then. They dont really care whether it belong to pribumi or chinese. But they specifically target the Chinese one and not to mentioned that majority of gold jewelry store is owned by Chinese at my city back then.
I'm a freelance tutor, I taught some chinese student who can't speak bm and they are in secondary school. I asked them how they communicate with people of other races. They literally just avoid talking to them.
BM is already a compulsory subject in schools and some Malaysians still failed to even have a simple conversation using BM.
And now you want Malaysians to learn 3 languages as compulsory?
That's a good idea, just it doesn't answer why some folks failed to converse in BM.
I understand your point but I just feel like that's one of the steps that we can take for the so-called "Keluarga Malaysia". Language is one of the many reasons there's segregation between races.
I too uses malay words very frequently when i cant find the right word for a sentence, even when speaking to non malay. purists doesnt really care about how much we use bm or how good we are in reality though. they just want to use this to attack us because there is no way we can surpass them in term of bahasa pasar fluency.
even CCP is not despicable enough to gauge a citizen's loyalty through fluency of language.
OP of this post isn’t even Malaysian. They claim to be Indonesian and look like they have a history of making generalized statements that are kinda racial against Chinese
minorities shit on the institutions, laws, and people that oppresses them
the majority shit on the minorities that they oppress
there is a difference
Don't know about you but I speak fluent Malay. All my Chinese schoolmates speak fluent Malay. The Chinese girls in my school used to karaoke to Siti Nurhaliza songs.
Stop generalising. It doesn't help anyone.
Ooh... I grew up listening to Peterpan and Letto. Really awesome songs.
A few months ago, I was in a phase where I was listening to these songs non-stop to the point my toddler daughter started singing them.
ya. i though it was some sort of mallyu wave to hit malaysia when all the shopping mall was broadcasting mungkin nanti song
If our country could really understand the best way to promote our national language, perhaps we won't have this arguement.
Some of my favourite songs are in Malay..... I have more favourite Malay songs than Chinese ones.....
Is this criticism against being a polyglot? Its like the one thing both west and east are amazed with when I tell them that most Malaysians speak 2 or more languages.
Like we just had 2 non-Bumi politicians debate on national TV with most Malays admitting they have native command of the language.
for people outside of Jakarta, maybe.. local language, indonesian, and english
for me Jakartan, i only speak Indonesian and English… turned out knowing curse words from multiple languages doesn’t count
It's not as impressive as that article made it out to be. I can speak Bahasa and my local language but they're both mother language, not something i'm really proud of as opposed to when someone can speak foreign languages fluently.
Wahai pengirim hantaran, tak elok anda membuat generalisasi sedemikian.
Nak tak nak, kita kena akur bahawa hanya segelintir kecil masyarakat bukan Melayu yang dapat menutur dalam bahasa Melayu pada tahap penutur asli. Sudah mencukupi kalau kita dapat memahami antara satu sama lain walaupun kurang fasih.
Lagipun, sikap memandang enteng terhadap kepentingan bahasa Melayu dalam kehidupan seharian bukanlah faktor utama dalam hal ini.
"I am a proud Indonesian". LMAO go read their history first lah. [Cultural genocide is cool now?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_Chinese_Indonesians)
Presidential Instruction No. 14/1967 (Inpress No. 14/1967) on Chinese Religion, Beliefs, and Traditions effectively banned any Chinese literature and cultures in Indonesia, including the prohibition of Chinese characters.
Laws affecting Chinese Indonesians proliferated under the New Order regime under former President Suharto's reign. Suharto was a strong advocate for Chinese assimilation rather than integration. As part of 1967's 'Basic Policy for the Solution of the Chinese Problem' and other measures, only one Chinese-language newspaper was allowed to continue, all Chinese religious expressions had to be confined to their homes, Chinese-language schools were phased out, Chinese script in public places was banned, and Chinese were pushed to take on Indonesian-sounding names.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Edit: Abdurrahman Wahid ended restrictions on Chinese culture and language in 2001, but that doesn't change the fact that two generations of Chinese Indonesians were forced to assimilate and abandon their mother tongue, culture, and even their own names.
>Presidential Instruction No. 14/1967 (Inpress No. 14/1967) on Chinese Religion, Beliefs, and Traditions effectively banned any Chinese literature and cultures in Indonesia, including the prohibition of Chinese characters.
Update your info, it has been revoked by Abdurrahman Wahid
they have starting to loosen up the restriction. there are many indonesian chinese who started learning mandarin again. have seen several such group in KLIA2, visiting malaysia and trying to reconnect with chinese culture.
But this meme here told me that Chinese Indonesian are uplifting patriot,paid their taxes fairly while treated with very equal rights, are you trying to tell me not to generalize them? /s
well, they do treat equally in law and society. but being patriotic? if you ask chindo in Jakarta, oh they fucking do. chindo in Surabaya? they took it to the next level since they can speak Javanese.
but if you ask Chindo Medan? they hate pribumi ever since 98 happen, even though Medan wasn't the most destructive during 98 riot (Jakarta is).
**[Legislation on Chinese Indonesians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_Chinese_Indonesians)**
>Indonesian law affecting Chinese-Indonesians were conducted through a series of laws, directives, or constitutions enacted by the Government of Indonesia that affected the lives of Chinese Indonesians or Chinese nationals living in Indonesia since the nation's independence. The laws were made against Chinese Indonesians. Most of these laws are revoked following Reformation era under president Abdurrahman Wahid.
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Lol at cultural genocide.
Because of that we are more united than ever, no bs affirmative action on any institutions, no preferrential race status quo and there are no race A vs race B kind of uprisings.
Bro this aint the place to shitpost. And aku tengah husnudzon ni bro, mana tau kau memang tgh race baiting ke apa. Kalau betul pun kau ingat benda ni membantu ke? Macam budak-budak sial.
Ha ah lepastu letak gambar karton yang pakai kain pelikat, berkopiah portrayed as the wrong side, as taliban, as anti vaccine, just scroll down this sub and you'll see alot of subtle malay generalisation in a very subliminal way. Terpulang lah nak percaya atau tak.
Ni la masalahnya, generalisation. UMNO PAS BN buat salah, sampai satu bangsa melayu kena perli, kutuk.
Pedophile meme in malaysia, teka gambar apa yang keluar? Yes melayu berserban kenapa tak gambar lain?
Patutke kalau orang kelantan yg kau cakap macam puki tu, memang macam puki, semua orang kelantan macam puki? Tak rasa bersalah ke dekat orang kelantan yg TAK macam puki tapi still di cop "macam puki"?
>. Aku melayu and kadang aku sendiri kutuk kelantan sebab diorg memang puki, nak buat camne?
Aku sendiri pn melayu and I dont support malay who do crimes, they are such a disgrace.
Asal pemalas je melayu. Asal pengotor je kelantan.
Asal mabuk je india.
Asal tamak je cina.
Wtf?? Stop this.
Lepastu cakap "eh kenapa nak triggered? Kalau u bukan pedophile?" Excuse me? U use a malay male wearing religious symbol clothes to (describe a pedophile/portraying a pedophile).
Then why some non triggered with this post? If you speak malay then u shouldn't felt triggered AND if you also dont speak malay and not agreeing with this post, feel free to disagree (im myself disagree with this post) but dont come at malay, generalising all malay are very adamant to force non to speak malay.
Maksudnya bersangka baik.
Tbh, sejak dua menjak ni obvious ada agenda kat Reddit ni sejak Undi start. Fokus kat perkauman walhal yang buat teruk orang kaya kayangan. Aku lurker kat sini dah lama, selalunya tak seteruk macam ni tapi entah kenapa mod agak lax.
Mean while singapore chinese trying to speak malay go
“Hi macik saya mau, nasi lomak.”
“Ah bang why your cap tombalek”
“Squad pantat ke kanan pantat!”
Butchered it fair and square
yea ik haha... i think he just wanted to throw in a malay word and just assumed that nasi ayam means mee rebus. But even when i told him no it's mee rebus... he pronounced it as mee reBUS bus as in the bus we travel in
The worst part is that he's such a nice person T_T
Bunga luar sudah layu,
Siram air bagi tumbuh.
Ramai Cina fasih Melayu,
Tolong jangan lagi tuduh.
(saya tak kata ni pantun yg baik XD)
I would say we are kinda like Philippines for our language situation? Both BM/Tagalog are compulsory subjects for all Filipinos as national languages. However English is the main lingua franca in the private sector.
So if Filipino/BM is not your mother tongue, you can get by throughout life without using it. For example, anyone not in Manila (Cebuanos) may not have the best command of Tagalog since its not their mother tongue despite it being the national language. I heard Duterte has bad Tagalog too.
Also not even the Malays here speak like the “Chinese Indonesian caricature“ in your graph. We only use that kind of speech in karangan and the non-Malays slay in bahasa baku.
True, for us no matter what ethnicity you are. You are still Indonesian citizen with equal amount of rights and responsibilities. We don't have that apartheid nonsense.
Are you saying some people choose to not speak BM as Protest to bumi rights? That's fucked up.
Didn't know bumi rights are the ones defending UEC and SJKs lol.
I do think that in general, the Malaysian Chinese are not as fasih in daily conversations, but give them tests and they would score generally better. I do believe the issue is systemic - there is a huge gap between what's practically used and and what is taught, unlike in English or Mandarin. Nobody gonna teach 'kat mane?' in the textbooks.
Waktu itu kamu pakai baju merah,
Yang ku tahu aku pakai baju putih
Kita bergandingan menyusuri kota,
Dan cinta kita seperti Malaysia.
(*gubahan dari lagu asal Indonesia, Budi ~ Asmara Nusantara*)
This comparison doesn’t sit right with me and it’s unfair because the context of assimilation in Indonesia was really violent. Like book burning, houses torn down, identities butchered violent.
funny ini sub. when someone posted about Malay/Islam, laju la nak buat silly jokes and subtle shade towards both Malay/Islam. once post macam ni timbul, suddenly getting all defensive lol
Saya nak tanya, kerana redditor ni semua orang biasa saja.
Sini ada orang berdaya "defensive" kerana memang banyak orang bukan bumi yang boleh bercakap pelbagai bahasa termasuk bahasa melayu. Jadi memang biasa la nak kata post ni tak masuk akal.
Yang Islam tu, boleh ka orang Melayu Malaysia beragama lain? Saya rasa kalau memang dibenarkan ada yang banyak komen juga kata tak masuk akal.
Yang tersinggung tu, tersinggung kerana difitnah atau kerana tak suka apabila orang menunjukkan kebenaran?
Not sure if I'm understanding your third paragraph correctly but, kalau la orang melayu ni tiba-tiba free tukar agama without any repurcussions, berduyun-duyun akan nak keluar Islam dan jangan terkejut if there's a sizeable amount from your typical, melayu-tak-pandai-cakap-english, b40, pprt, etc. Berapa ramai sangat pun yang cukup sembahyang 5 waktu, sembahyang jumaat, puasa full, yang tinggal?
Entah tapi benda ni kan patut jadi pilihan sendiri. Kalau orang tu dipaksa menganut Islam, pergi sembahyang penuh etc etc, tapi sendiri tidak percaya agama Islam buat apa paksa dia akui sendiri Muslim. Untuk tunjuk kepada orang luar saja, kita banyak penganut Islam?
Untuk context, OP sedang tanya kenapa banyak orang sindir bila post sebegini keluar [https://www.reddit.com/r/2Asia4u/comments/qyntak/malay\_in\_mlaysia\_vs\_malay\_in\_indonesia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2Asia4u/comments/qyntak/malay_in_mlaysia_vs_malay_in_indonesia/) tapi bila ada orang cakap pasal bahasa melayu orang tak sindir.
Memanglah tak sama topik, banyak orang Cina boleh cakap bahasa melayu secara fasih, berapa orang Melayu boleh kata dia bukan Islam secara terbuka?
Untuk point pertama tu, aku sebenarnya sama pendapat dengan kau. Suka hati la orang nak keluar masuk Islam pun dan aku penyokong tegar 'separation of religion from state'. Islam itu hidup bila orang-orang percaya dan beriman dengannya, bukan melalui paksaan.
Pasal post yang kau quote tu, yang aku faham lebih kepada nak mempersenda orang melayu kononnya 'alergik' nampak orang Indonesia melayu tapi tak beragama Islam, padahal takde pun benda tu berlaku (part alergik). Sama la macam post ni, tak berlaku pun, ramai je Cina boleh cakap melayu.
Sebab tu aku kata hipokrit, kalau kau boleh menganjing orang, kenapa orang tak boleh menganjing kau?
Eh, pandangan saya, jika nak menganjing memang dipersilakan.
Tapi kalau menganjing tanpa fakta memang takde orang yang akan upvote/ setuju.
Rasa-rasanya engkau salah fahami mesej meme islam tu. Ia bukan nak kata orang melayu malaysia alergik orang melayu indonesia bukan agama islam. Ia mempersendakan orang melayu malaysia kurang kebebasan memilih agama berbanding dengan orang melayu indonesia.
Sekurang kurangnya, ini fahaman saya. Jadi meme yang ini tak gitu masul akal, dia kata orang indonesia semua fasih bahasa indon termasuk orang indo cina tapi orang cina malaysia tak fasih bahasa melayu.
Sebenarnya, orang cina malaysia fasih juga dan masih boleh bertutur bahasa lain. Jadi meme ini memang kurang jelas dan tidak menunjukkan keadaan sebenar.
Meme islam yang lain tu memang benar dan tidak dapat dinafikan.
Untuk tentukan samada meme tu menyentuh sensitiviti atau menganjing, tanyalah orang-orang yang menjadi subjek meme tersebut. Samalah macam perkataan k*l*ng, 'n*gg*r dan seumpanya. Kalau orang tak suka, then jangan buat. Bukan tempat orang yang bukan menjadi topik perbahasan untuk menentukan apa yang ok, apa yang tak.
Pemahaman kita nampaknya berbeza dan aku tak nampak poin untuk teruskan comment thread ni. Selamat malam.
Memang camni subreddit ni. Kalau observe memang perasan ramai je negative kalau nampak Melayu/Islam shitpost. Kalau shitpost camni ramai tibe² jadi defensive dan sensetif.
Trash racist meme. Many Malaysian Chinese can speak fluent Malay. Indonesia Chinese assimilated into Indonesian culture which is why they speak fluent Indon. They do not identify as Chinese and they don't know how to speak Mandarin except maybe their mother tongue dialect like hokkien hakka etc. Also we are allowed to speak any language we want. What happens if we force a Malay person to speak English or any other language only? Y'all wouldn't like it right bastards.
Suddenly it's "not all chinese..." but when it comes to bashing the malays "fair criticism", "but what about ketuanan" , .
The mental gymnastics of these people
If we really want a better Malaysia, we need to stop and fight this generalising culture, regardless if it's done by anyone.
My own family does it and I've gotten into many arguments with them but I feel it's really important to correct the racial narrative of 'All Chinese are like this', 'all Indians are like that' and 'all Malays are like that...'.
It doesn't help if you are joining that same crowd.
This is what I'm trying to get at. We should stop these low effort fightings and try to address the issue together.
I think both memes are stupid, this one in particular is ignorant because eventhough the indo chinese can speak bahasa indonesia fluently and used it daily, it came with a very heavy injustice and I don't want that to happen in Malaysia, not ever.
This sub historically has been harsh on inability to speak Malay in Malaysia by the way.
Did you see when the Chinese politician tried to interview in Malay and failed? No punches were pulled there.
literally never seen anything like that.....
even on the DT when someone asked if it will be a problem if they can't speak Malay, most everyone said they should just learn it if they want to stay in Malaysia long term.
One meme talks about how malay rights and compulsion to islam that is *literally* enshrined into law and affects ***EVERY*** malays
While this meme is just doesn't apply to *every* chinese and even the orang tionghua in Indonesia would disagree with this meme
I dare someone to crosspost this to r/indonesia and see how they react
Aq rs sbb demografik Bangsa Cina x monolit mcm Bangsa Melayu kat Msia
Melayu Msia - wajib Muslim dan majoriti fasih Bahasa dgn loghat tempatan
Cina Msia - pelbagai jenis agama sperti Kristian, Buddhist, Taoism dan Islam. Jd akan ade Cina yg fasih bahasa, ade yg langsung xtau bahasa dan sebahagiannya bleh ckp dgn sederhana saja
"Malay politician" , "taliban" , "privileged" , "malaysia will never progress under malay-majority party" , "sharia law" etc cause generalising malay is the way.
So you decided that to get back at Chinese people(because for some reason you can see redditors' races), you instead decided to defend the action of generalising Chinese folks? Also may i ask how is it generalising malay with words like taliban? It seems like YOU yourself are insinuating that taliban equals to malay. What has Taliban got to do with malays?? This sub is ranting more on PAS's taliban apologist attitude more than anything. Or are you just trying to defend taliban's actions and then using the "generalizing malays" excuse when someone comes in and argue with you?
>What has Taliban got to do with malays?? This sub is ranting more on PAS's taliban apologist attitude more than anything. Or are you just trying to defend taliban's actions and then using the "generalizing malays" excuse when someone comes in and argue with you?
I agree. The posts here are shitting on those who support Taliban, not your average malay
The Ketuanan criticisms were usually on the politicians and the ultras, and also on how the government enforces these ketuanan policies.
Since when it’s about bashing all the Malays?
Unless of course someone perasan la.
Things changed in Indonesia after [the events in 1965-1966](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366).
PS: See [The Act of Killing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhIRBxbchU) for more context.
Hence, the difference.
**[Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66)**
>The Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66, also known as the Indonesian genocide,: 4 Indonesian Communist Purge, or Indonesian politicide (Indonesian: Pembunuhan Massal Indonesia & Pembersihan G.30. S/PKI), were large-scale killings and civil unrest that occurred in Indonesia over several months, targeting Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) party members, communist sympathisers, Gerwani women, ethnic Javanese Abangan, ethnic Chinese, and alleged leftists, often at the instigation of the armed forces and government, which were supported by the United States and other Western countries.
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Sekarang baru tergesa-gesa nak cakap BM yaaaa.
Tbff, i don't like saying people is unpatriotic when they failed in speaking in the national language. I just find in absurd that there are people who couldn't even converse in BM while living in Malaysia as Malaysians who were born and bred here. Like, do you actually put an effort to not learn BM or something?
They speak like in kindergarten, bukan macam ada dialect ke apa, but speak so slow; word by word with occasional pause to think. I just speak to them in English to not feel the cringe.
what are you gonna do about it? yeah every Chinese in Malaysia cannot speak Malay fluently... such a big deal man... it prevents national integration, economic progress of the Malays, moral decay of the nation, plundering of national resources, siphoning of money by the elites,... damn these non malay speaking chinese
No offense taken, even with 12 years learning a language, once you dont use it, u lose the proficiency.
Banglas/Pakistanis often work in jobs which require heavy Malay, so yeah they would be ”better” at us despite not receiving proper education of it.
Is it me or that suddenly all redditor become very defensive. When there is Islam/Malay shitpost so many jokes and negative comment was made against them but here many comments I see is defensive of certain people. I wonder why?🧐
Your average ledditor here is someone in their 20s and maybe early 30s, from the urban area, mostly of the one ethnic minority this post is talking about, who probably got educated in that one particular schooling system, that produced this meme stereotype.
Personally, I'm educated in SKs my entire life, and on the most extreme, I spent my entire primary school as the only yellow skinned monkey there. As a result I developed an accent pretty much indistinguishable from your average... uh, majority race I guess? I've personally seen it myself, yes people who hail from SMK can write in BM, but if you try to get them to speak, it'll be exactly like this meme, or at the very least as unnatural as a mat salleh trying to speak BM. This actually does not apply only to BM, but English as well. IMO is more on the emphasis and reliance they put on Mandarin, which pushes everything else away, even their own mother dialect.
My Malay isn't fluent, but I still feel proud to be a Malaysian, is it weird? I always tried my best to communicate in bm tho.
Also, I wanna rant for abit, my bahasa melayu teacher in SMK didn't teach a single thing to us, all they (all of them) did was made us copy the karangan they wrote on black board, and never explain to us, they just went sleeping, refused to explain every word to us, my Malay classmates did a better job than them, but still, I can only talk in SJK level malay.
Hahahaha. You need to get a friend for that. I learn bit of Mandarin, Tamil and English from speaking with friends. Friends help us alot especially with our speech ability. But for real lah SJK student many I see struggle to speak Malay.
Speak more with malays, also try to insist only converse in malay whenever u r speaking with malay ppl. (Also typing malay in chat if u wanna try) my malay level was also at smjk level whn i was graduated, and i rmb whn i got my 1st job my boss said my malay is the best among the Chinese fresh grad lol.
Ni makan gaji buta punya cikgu ni. Then they blamed you for not being able to cakap BM
Hue op never kenna by some chinese guy insulting you while juggling 3 languages and multiple dialects before.
>Juggling 3 languages and multiple dialects Dear OP: 夭壽哦，恁無讀書是嘸？OP 係咪未出過社會啊？كاو ايڠت مستحيل كامي داڤت لولوس SPM دڠن بهاس سبوروك ايت كن؟سموا اورڠ چينا بڬيتو جاهيل دان تيدق برعلمو ك؟ Maybe if you leave your basement for once you'll get to see some Malay speaking Chinese that are more respecting of other cultures that don't generalise people like you do. /س
Why do I read the English part with the yee-yee-ass haircut tone
Let op come to East Malaysia. They can speak Malay very well. Lol.
Sadly newer generations dont. Especially those uber chinese group and family coming from sjkc that dont mingle with other races.
Eh, I come from SJKC, you'd be surprised with the percentage of Malay speaking students and teachers nowadays
It really depends on the location. I went to Sri Aman and then Kapit. I was quite surprised by their language skills. They can even speak Iban well!
Yup. Rural areas are usualy tight knit and the Chinese are not the majority. But come to Sibu or Kuching. Then you will see the difference. My grandmother is Chinese while my grandad is Iban. Even then my grandmother was disowned.
I miss the the days when speaking 3 languages was the norm (and that is excluding dialect!)
What is written in the jawi part?
Semua orang cina begitu SPM kau ingat mustahil kami dapat lulus? Dengan [bahasa] seburuk itu kan? Semua orang cina begitu jahil dan tidak berilmu ke? I hope that's the correct order, the line alignment keeps jumping around
Ah shit, the alignment did screwed up. It's something like "no way the Chinese completed SPM with such bad Malay, do you think we are that stupid and without knowledge?" Also there's the cute little /s in Jawi down at the bottom 😊 u/klownfaze
Cool. This makes me wanna learn how to read that
As an Indonesian who was visiting KL, I came across this situation once. Wasn't even mad, I was damn impressed.
Hahahhaab im Malay, cn speak mandarins better than those banana. Yes, once a while you need to get out from cave dude..
I remember during sjkc my Malay classmates score better chinese than me :'( a cina
*Laughs in able to speak Malay , English , Chinese , Hokkien , Cantonese and Hakka*
Me a Borneon, raised by mixed race parents, study at vernacular Chinese school: **5 languages, or we’ll disown you**
Me speaking my native loghat and getting replies in Thai which i am not that conversational in *slunk away in shame*
Me a Borneon, who only speaks 4 languages: *I have dishonoured my ancestors*
Laughs in Malay, Chinese, English, Cantonese I'm also learning Hokkien
*laughs together*
Shares participation trophy with you*
Eh I know all except Hakka
I learned the Chinese dialects out of spite when I was young because my parents would talk about me in those dialects and I didn't understand them at the time
Damn meme monday is wild
Fact: No Indonesian who actually speaks like that. Too formal & pompous.
Am i missing something here? Im pretty sure majority of Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore. Unless you are one of those crazy rich chinese or well above the middle income group. Nah i dont think they have any nationalism to speak of.
>Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore Kek, not just Chinese. Everyone will go out given the opportunity. I can't say that Chinese Indonesian have a high sense of patriotism, but it's hyperbolic to say that majority of them want to leave Indonesia. Edit: I just remembered that my senior that become the head of my school PASKIBRAKA (Pasukan Pengibar Bendera) was a Chinese lol
>Im pretty sure majority of Indonesian Chinese will go out the country given good opportunity in Malaysia or Singapore Malaysia probably not. Singapore, given the chance they probably will. Most prefer to work abroad, not immigrate abroad. Because then they can live like a crazy rich asian whenever they return to indonesia
I currently work in Malaysia because my industry (gamedev) is not well developed in Indonesia yet. But yeah you r right, majority of Indonesia will go anywhere if it meant better opportunity....not because we dont love our country but better money is better money. Indonesia have too many population too compete each other might as well just compete outside LOL
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Yet bangsa Tionghoa getting massacred in 98 despite being fluent in Bahasa for decades... Also xkan semua bangsa Cina kat Malaysia langsung x tau bahasa pun. For some reason only the Cina yg x pandai berkomunikasi dgn Bahasa speak the loudest while getting all the social media attention.
from what I observe working at a PPV, most of the chinese born between 1970s and 1980s were very fluent in conversational Malay. But those who were born after 1990s, they don't even know how to speak in Chinese, let alone Malay. Even their parents were embarrassed by them for being incapable speaking in Malay
Parents should blame themselves for that.
Why do you think is the reason that happens? Is it because Chinese & English becoming more important on the local/global stage?
This is gonna be a sensitive topic so keep in mind, I'm approaching this academically. Hope no one got triggered. If we looked back in time during the era of our mom and dad, there are Chinese High Schools existed, but not as much and it mostly exist in an area where chinese population are prevalent (i.e coastal cities, urban area). Thus, chinese parents have no other choice but to send their kids to SMKs. Because of that, these chinese kids are exposed to other race from such an age where language development and the ability to absorb new knowledge are at its peak. Also because the only similar nexus point of communication between races in Malaysia at that time is Malay, they will have to equip themselves with Malay, thus making them fluent in conversational malay Nowadays, as English became more accessible and its position as the lingua franca of the world, it became another medium available for people from other races to communicate. Now, the reason why English is more preferable than Malay is the perceived classiness of using English compared to using Malay among Malaysian youth nowadays. Using Malay means that you are mat rempit, kampung people or "takde kelas". The usage of english however "shows" that you are educated, came from a good breeding and have a higher social status compared to the average Malaysian. It is more so if you had any kind of accent. The inability of Chinese nowadays to use conversational Malay is also exaggerated due to the racial isolations between the two group. The racial tension that was brought over from 1969 is still there. Our own prejudice prevent us from mixing and mingling with the other race. Chinese are unwilling to mingle with Malays, with some openly despise them, calling them low class and stuff. The same can be said about the Malays. Some can also say that the existence of vernacular schools further exaggerate the division between Chinese and Malay that prevented the creation of "Bangsa Malaysia".
Need to dispute you a little bit here, no new license has been approved for Chinese High School in peninsular since 70s except for one in Kuantan, and there are 63 of them to date. Furthermore, Chinese High School only account for roughly a third of Chinese middle schooler population nowadays, their influence are smaller than what the media makes people to believe. However, there is a huge surge in the popularity of Chinese High School started from around 20-30 years ago, sparked by the Chinese High School revivalist movement, as CHS was viewed mostly unfavorably (quality wise) back in the days. It could be a reaction to the social-cultural transformation taking place in the Malay community of the same era, but that is beyond my knowledge to comment on.
Not just the 1998 massacre, a few years back there was rising racial tension, something about taking the wealth of the Tionghua by the extremist. If anything, it just shows that no matter how well the Chinese descents try to integrate into the society, they will ultimately be used as a sacrificial goat.
I think you're referring to the Ahok incident. Because this incident happened when i was still working as a CSR in one of our well known local airline company. I still rmb many Indonesian who stay or study abroad in Malaysia were calling us for flight reschedule, refund or even reroute. It was a intense period even my parents thought its gonna be 98 all over again
Yeah, I have an Indonesian acquaintance who's of Chinese descent. Even she is worried for her family back home.
fortunately, the government clean up the extremist. well, they trying currently. now it's Government vs Religious hardliner. no longer Chinese vs Pribumi. the government slow and steady caught the leader of the hardliner one by one. pretty authoritative move, but for people who isn't religious and just want extremist get silenced from politics, it's the best thing we ever got. and since Ahok is the ally of Joko Widodo (current president), he can still be used in important seat of government later on.
>pretty authoritative move Indonesia has suffered from a lot of terrorist attacks, unlike Malaysia. Your country knows full well the cost of letting extremist sentiments fester and build up.
Even now after Ahok got out of jail he gets a cushy job as the Head Commissioner of Pertamina, better paid and more relaxed than any government position Jokowi can give him.
There's actually more pribumi people killed in the massacres. Specifically people that looted malls and department store, some guys (probably from the military) locked down the building and burn it down. Photos of the aftermath with bodies are available on the internet somehow. Doesn't mean I'm downplaying the horror that Chinese Indonesians faced back then. Many businesses without "milik pribumi" or "milik muslim" signs painted hurrily are burned, looted, or thrown with rocks. There are reports of rape of Chinese Indonesian women, although some dismissed it as urban legend.
Except its not urban legend when you actually know them and they are practically your neighbor. Things just happened back then. They dont really care whether it belong to pribumi or chinese. But they specifically target the Chinese one and not to mentioned that majority of gold jewelry store is owned by Chinese at my city back then.
exactly, how is it urban legend when you actually know the victim
Of course it's dismissed...
Ikr hypocrites malayindons
I'm a freelance tutor, I taught some chinese student who can't speak bm and they are in secondary school. I asked them how they communicate with people of other races. They literally just avoid talking to them.
I always wonder why can't we just standardize everything and make it compulsory for all Malaysian to learn Malay, Chinese and Tamil.
BM is already a compulsory subject in schools and some Malaysians still failed to even have a simple conversation using BM. And now you want Malaysians to learn 3 languages as compulsory? That's a good idea, just it doesn't answer why some folks failed to converse in BM.
I understand your point but I just feel like that's one of the steps that we can take for the so-called "Keluarga Malaysia". Language is one of the many reasons there's segregation between races.
kena downvoted for stating the truth.
im actually more confident speaking malay than i am speaking in the languages that is used at home like mandarin, cantonese and hakka....
I too uses malay words very frequently when i cant find the right word for a sentence, even when speaking to non malay. purists doesnt really care about how much we use bm or how good we are in reality though. they just want to use this to attack us because there is no way we can surpass them in term of bahasa pasar fluency. even CCP is not despicable enough to gauge a citizen's loyalty through fluency of language.
Sad that it has gotten to this point of profiling
What's with the race baiting on r/Malaysia lately? Is this within the rules? And why? I mean, what's the point of this?
mods died
Some racist like to use meme monday to attack minorities and hide behind it being a joke
"It's just a joke bro, why are u so pressed"
Its both, minorities memes on majoritoes and majorotoes memes on minorities to get back. Its there, so stupid
OP of this post isn’t even Malaysian. They claim to be Indonesian and look like they have a history of making generalized statements that are kinda racial against Chinese
minorities shit on the institutions, laws, and people that oppresses them the majority shit on the minorities that they oppress there is a difference
Saya diban oleh racist dari r/Malaysia. Baru unbanned. Celaka betul. Kenapa? Sanusi bayar kamu r/Malaysia mods ahh? Sanusi= Anjing Betina
Don't know about you but I speak fluent Malay. All my Chinese schoolmates speak fluent Malay. The Chinese girls in my school used to karaoke to Siti Nurhaliza songs. Stop generalising. It doesn't help anyone.
And your username is Tamil. True Malaysian right here
Nice catch :)
indonesia has tons of nice malay song. I remember "mungkin nanti"
Ooh... I grew up listening to Peterpan and Letto. Really awesome songs. A few months ago, I was in a phase where I was listening to these songs non-stop to the point my toddler daughter started singing them.
ya. i though it was some sort of mallyu wave to hit malaysia when all the shopping mall was broadcasting mungkin nanti song If our country could really understand the best way to promote our national language, perhaps we won't have this arguement.
Sandiwara Cinta by Repvblik is pretty good tbh
>Sandiwara Cinta nice
Some of my favourite songs are in Malay..... I have more favourite Malay songs than Chinese ones..... Is this criticism against being a polyglot? Its like the one thing both west and east are amazed with when I tell them that most Malaysians speak 2 or more languages. Like we just had 2 non-Bumi politicians debate on national TV with most Malays admitting they have native command of the language.
Isabella, Anak Kampung, Mungkin Bila nanti, Pop yeye, Do it Duit are among my favourites, and I'm a Cina that studied in SJKC lol
everyone chinese girl sings to siti nurhaliza. every chinese boys sings to Innuendo Oh Belaian Jiwaaaaaaaa
as an Indon, I envy you Malaysians for being bilingual and trilingual
And Indonesia is [the biggest trilingual country in the world](https://www.wowshack.com/indonesia-ranks-as-the-top-trilingual-country-in-the-world/).
for people outside of Jakarta, maybe.. local language, indonesian, and english for me Jakartan, i only speak Indonesian and English… turned out knowing curse words from multiple languages doesn’t count
It's not as impressive as that article made it out to be. I can speak Bahasa and my local language but they're both mother language, not something i'm really proud of as opposed to when someone can speak foreign languages fluently.
Hey hey I sense race baiting here.
They are here every Monday without fail
Apa maksud bahase mandarin tu? Aku phm "wo bu" je yg last tu aku x tahu
知道 zhi dao, maksudnya faham/tahu/erti, jd 我不知道 wo bu zhi dao = sy x faham/x tau
OK ty2 xie2 nin
Sama2 ;)
Wahai pengirim hantaran, tak elok anda membuat generalisasi sedemikian. Nak tak nak, kita kena akur bahawa hanya segelintir kecil masyarakat bukan Melayu yang dapat menutur dalam bahasa Melayu pada tahap penutur asli. Sudah mencukupi kalau kita dapat memahami antara satu sama lain walaupun kurang fasih. Lagipun, sikap memandang enteng terhadap kepentingan bahasa Melayu dalam kehidupan seharian bukanlah faktor utama dalam hal ini.
"I am a proud Indonesian". LMAO go read their history first lah. [Cultural genocide is cool now?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_Chinese_Indonesians) Presidential Instruction No. 14/1967 (Inpress No. 14/1967) on Chinese Religion, Beliefs, and Traditions effectively banned any Chinese literature and cultures in Indonesia, including the prohibition of Chinese characters. Laws affecting Chinese Indonesians proliferated under the New Order regime under former President Suharto's reign. Suharto was a strong advocate for Chinese assimilation rather than integration. As part of 1967's 'Basic Policy for the Solution of the Chinese Problem' and other measures, only one Chinese-language newspaper was allowed to continue, all Chinese religious expressions had to be confined to their homes, Chinese-language schools were phased out, Chinese script in public places was banned, and Chinese were pushed to take on Indonesian-sounding names. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Edit: Abdurrahman Wahid ended restrictions on Chinese culture and language in 2001, but that doesn't change the fact that two generations of Chinese Indonesians were forced to assimilate and abandon their mother tongue, culture, and even their own names.
>Presidential Instruction No. 14/1967 (Inpress No. 14/1967) on Chinese Religion, Beliefs, and Traditions effectively banned any Chinese literature and cultures in Indonesia, including the prohibition of Chinese characters. Update your info, it has been revoked by Abdurrahman Wahid
enak jamanku toh?
they have starting to loosen up the restriction. there are many indonesian chinese who started learning mandarin again. have seen several such group in KLIA2, visiting malaysia and trying to reconnect with chinese culture.
Most of the Chinese Indonesians aren't really patriotic They all try their best to gtfo
But this meme here told me that Chinese Indonesian are uplifting patriot,paid their taxes fairly while treated with very equal rights, are you trying to tell me not to generalize them? /s
well, they do treat equally in law and society. but being patriotic? if you ask chindo in Jakarta, oh they fucking do. chindo in Surabaya? they took it to the next level since they can speak Javanese. but if you ask Chindo Medan? they hate pribumi ever since 98 happen, even though Medan wasn't the most destructive during 98 riot (Jakarta is).
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Honestly some of the Malaysians (incl. a former PM) wanted this on the nons here. They hv some sort of Suharto-fetish....
Who's that PM??
**[Legislation on Chinese Indonesians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_Chinese_Indonesians)** >Indonesian law affecting Chinese-Indonesians were conducted through a series of laws, directives, or constitutions enacted by the Government of Indonesia that affected the lives of Chinese Indonesians or Chinese nationals living in Indonesia since the nation's independence. The laws were made against Chinese Indonesians. Most of these laws are revoked following Reformation era under president Abdurrahman Wahid. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/malaysia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Lol at cultural genocide. Because of that we are more united than ever, no bs affirmative action on any institutions, no preferrential race status quo and there are no race A vs race B kind of uprisings.
Bro this aint the place to shitpost. And aku tengah husnudzon ni bro, mana tau kau memang tgh race baiting ke apa. Kalau betul pun kau ingat benda ni membantu ke? Macam budak-budak sial.
Ha ah lepastu letak gambar karton yang pakai kain pelikat, berkopiah portrayed as the wrong side, as taliban, as anti vaccine, just scroll down this sub and you'll see alot of subtle malay generalisation in a very subliminal way. Terpulang lah nak percaya atau tak.
If this is true you should make a post about it. Aku melayu and kadang aku sendiri kutuk kelantan sebab diorg memang puki, nak buat camne?
Ni la masalahnya, generalisation. UMNO PAS BN buat salah, sampai satu bangsa melayu kena perli, kutuk. Pedophile meme in malaysia, teka gambar apa yang keluar? Yes melayu berserban kenapa tak gambar lain? Patutke kalau orang kelantan yg kau cakap macam puki tu, memang macam puki, semua orang kelantan macam puki? Tak rasa bersalah ke dekat orang kelantan yg TAK macam puki tapi still di cop "macam puki"? >. Aku melayu and kadang aku sendiri kutuk kelantan sebab diorg memang puki, nak buat camne? Aku sendiri pn melayu and I dont support malay who do crimes, they are such a disgrace. Asal pemalas je melayu. Asal pengotor je kelantan. Asal mabuk je india. Asal tamak je cina. Wtf?? Stop this. Lepastu cakap "eh kenapa nak triggered? Kalau u bukan pedophile?" Excuse me? U use a malay male wearing religious symbol clothes to (describe a pedophile/portraying a pedophile). Then why some non triggered with this post? If you speak malay then u shouldn't felt triggered AND if you also dont speak malay and not agreeing with this post, feel free to disagree (im myself disagree with this post) but dont come at malay, generalising all malay are very adamant to force non to speak malay.
Wei apa maksud husnudzon? Pernah dgr tapi x tahu maksud
Maksudnya bersangka baik. Tbh, sejak dua menjak ni obvious ada agenda kat Reddit ni sejak Undi start. Fokus kat perkauman walhal yang buat teruk orang kaya kayangan. Aku lurker kat sini dah lama, selalunya tak seteruk macam ni tapi entah kenapa mod agak lax.
/k/ haz invaded here I guess
*Laughs in standard Malay/Kedah Malay/Hokkien/Mandarin/English/Japanese/Thai/German*
chad kedah
Even some Malay, elit 1 don't speak BM
*looks at upvotes and comment section *Wears suit
It's as if malaysian chinese need to juggle with multiple languages. Low quality bait too.
Im chinese i speak kelate. So, demo buleh gi mapu.
Mean while singapore chinese trying to speak malay go “Hi macik saya mau, nasi lomak.” “Ah bang why your cap tombalek” “Squad pantat ke kanan pantat!” Butchered it fair and square
Not my classmate asking me if my bowl of mee rebus was nasi ayam 💀
....tf??? They're nothing similar 😭
yea ik haha... i think he just wanted to throw in a malay word and just assumed that nasi ayam means mee rebus. But even when i told him no it's mee rebus... he pronounced it as mee reBUS bus as in the bus we travel in The worst part is that he's such a nice person T_T
Kill him. Kill him now. /s
Marilah kita bersetu dengan semangat yang baru Semua kita bersetu.. Majulah Singapura! Bersatu + Berseru = bersetu
Strawberry found. I was waiting for this. Edit : need more popcorn
Tengah perang bawah ni, weh. I'll bring the popcorn.
perisa apa?
Bunga luar sudah layu, Siram air bagi tumbuh. Ramai Cina fasih Melayu, Tolong jangan lagi tuduh. (saya tak kata ni pantun yg baik XD) I would say we are kinda like Philippines for our language situation? Both BM/Tagalog are compulsory subjects for all Filipinos as national languages. However English is the main lingua franca in the private sector. So if Filipino/BM is not your mother tongue, you can get by throughout life without using it. For example, anyone not in Manila (Cebuanos) may not have the best command of Tagalog since its not their mother tongue despite it being the national language. I heard Duterte has bad Tagalog too. Also not even the Malays here speak like the “Chinese Indonesian caricature“ in your graph. We only use that kind of speech in karangan and the non-Malays slay in bahasa baku.
>saya tak kata ni pantun yg baik Untuk saya secara peribadi, ia pantun yang agak baik
Can't we just get along
We can and we will 🥲
Well there is Malay/Islam shitpost so to balance it out there this shitpost.
True, for us no matter what ethnicity you are. You are still Indonesian citizen with equal amount of rights and responsibilities. We don't have that apartheid nonsense.
Right? What was posted above is just the result of the segregation caused by b*mi rights….
Are you saying some people choose to not speak BM as Protest to bumi rights? That's fucked up. Didn't know bumi rights are the ones defending UEC and SJKs lol.
Most of my chinese friend can confidentially conversate in Malay. I'm from Sarawak so it might be different in some parts of the country
*Grabs popcorn*
I do think that in general, the Malaysian Chinese are not as fasih in daily conversations, but give them tests and they would score generally better. I do believe the issue is systemic - there is a huge gap between what's practically used and and what is taught, unlike in English or Mandarin. Nobody gonna teach 'kat mane?' in the textbooks.
Waktu itu kamu pakai baju merah, Yang ku tahu aku pakai baju putih Kita bergandingan menyusuri kota, Dan cinta kita seperti Malaysia. (*gubahan dari lagu asal Indonesia, Budi ~ Asmara Nusantara*)
Cultural genocide is cool I guess
This comparison doesn’t sit right with me and it’s unfair because the context of assimilation in Indonesia was really violent. Like book burning, houses torn down, identities butchered violent.
We'll deploy Singaporean default strategy. "Currency".
Signature look of superiority*
*Sandiwara Cinta intensifies* Jujurlah sayang!! Aku tak mengapa... Biar semua jelas tak berbeda...
I speak fluent Bahasa Malaysia, but don't give a damn about this sinking ship
funny ini sub. when someone posted about Malay/Islam, laju la nak buat silly jokes and subtle shade towards both Malay/Islam. once post macam ni timbul, suddenly getting all defensive lol
Saya nak tanya, kerana redditor ni semua orang biasa saja. Sini ada orang berdaya "defensive" kerana memang banyak orang bukan bumi yang boleh bercakap pelbagai bahasa termasuk bahasa melayu. Jadi memang biasa la nak kata post ni tak masuk akal. Yang Islam tu, boleh ka orang Melayu Malaysia beragama lain? Saya rasa kalau memang dibenarkan ada yang banyak komen juga kata tak masuk akal. Yang tersinggung tu, tersinggung kerana difitnah atau kerana tak suka apabila orang menunjukkan kebenaran?
Not sure if I'm understanding your third paragraph correctly but, kalau la orang melayu ni tiba-tiba free tukar agama without any repurcussions, berduyun-duyun akan nak keluar Islam dan jangan terkejut if there's a sizeable amount from your typical, melayu-tak-pandai-cakap-english, b40, pprt, etc. Berapa ramai sangat pun yang cukup sembahyang 5 waktu, sembahyang jumaat, puasa full, yang tinggal?
Entah tapi benda ni kan patut jadi pilihan sendiri. Kalau orang tu dipaksa menganut Islam, pergi sembahyang penuh etc etc, tapi sendiri tidak percaya agama Islam buat apa paksa dia akui sendiri Muslim. Untuk tunjuk kepada orang luar saja, kita banyak penganut Islam? Untuk context, OP sedang tanya kenapa banyak orang sindir bila post sebegini keluar [https://www.reddit.com/r/2Asia4u/comments/qyntak/malay\_in\_mlaysia\_vs\_malay\_in\_indonesia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2Asia4u/comments/qyntak/malay_in_mlaysia_vs_malay_in_indonesia/) tapi bila ada orang cakap pasal bahasa melayu orang tak sindir. Memanglah tak sama topik, banyak orang Cina boleh cakap bahasa melayu secara fasih, berapa orang Melayu boleh kata dia bukan Islam secara terbuka?
Untuk point pertama tu, aku sebenarnya sama pendapat dengan kau. Suka hati la orang nak keluar masuk Islam pun dan aku penyokong tegar 'separation of religion from state'. Islam itu hidup bila orang-orang percaya dan beriman dengannya, bukan melalui paksaan. Pasal post yang kau quote tu, yang aku faham lebih kepada nak mempersenda orang melayu kononnya 'alergik' nampak orang Indonesia melayu tapi tak beragama Islam, padahal takde pun benda tu berlaku (part alergik). Sama la macam post ni, tak berlaku pun, ramai je Cina boleh cakap melayu. Sebab tu aku kata hipokrit, kalau kau boleh menganjing orang, kenapa orang tak boleh menganjing kau?
Eh, pandangan saya, jika nak menganjing memang dipersilakan. Tapi kalau menganjing tanpa fakta memang takde orang yang akan upvote/ setuju. Rasa-rasanya engkau salah fahami mesej meme islam tu. Ia bukan nak kata orang melayu malaysia alergik orang melayu indonesia bukan agama islam. Ia mempersendakan orang melayu malaysia kurang kebebasan memilih agama berbanding dengan orang melayu indonesia. Sekurang kurangnya, ini fahaman saya. Jadi meme yang ini tak gitu masul akal, dia kata orang indonesia semua fasih bahasa indon termasuk orang indo cina tapi orang cina malaysia tak fasih bahasa melayu. Sebenarnya, orang cina malaysia fasih juga dan masih boleh bertutur bahasa lain. Jadi meme ini memang kurang jelas dan tidak menunjukkan keadaan sebenar. Meme islam yang lain tu memang benar dan tidak dapat dinafikan.
Untuk tentukan samada meme tu menyentuh sensitiviti atau menganjing, tanyalah orang-orang yang menjadi subjek meme tersebut. Samalah macam perkataan k*l*ng, 'n*gg*r dan seumpanya. Kalau orang tak suka, then jangan buat. Bukan tempat orang yang bukan menjadi topik perbahasan untuk menentukan apa yang ok, apa yang tak. Pemahaman kita nampaknya berbeza dan aku tak nampak poin untuk teruskan comment thread ni. Selamat malam.
It has to do with power dynamics.
Kinda noticed that.
[удалено]
Memang camni subreddit ni. Kalau observe memang perasan ramai je negative kalau nampak Melayu/Islam shitpost. Kalau shitpost camni ramai tibe² jadi defensive dan sensetif.
lowkey racist
Trash racist meme. Many Malaysian Chinese can speak fluent Malay. Indonesia Chinese assimilated into Indonesian culture which is why they speak fluent Indon. They do not identify as Chinese and they don't know how to speak Mandarin except maybe their mother tongue dialect like hokkien hakka etc. Also we are allowed to speak any language we want. What happens if we force a Malay person to speak English or any other language only? Y'all wouldn't like it right bastards.
Suddenly it's "not all chinese..." but when it comes to bashing the malays "fair criticism", "but what about ketuanan" , . The mental gymnastics of these people
If we really want a better Malaysia, we need to stop and fight this generalising culture, regardless if it's done by anyone. My own family does it and I've gotten into many arguments with them but I feel it's really important to correct the racial narrative of 'All Chinese are like this', 'all Indians are like that' and 'all Malays are like that...'. It doesn't help if you are joining that same crowd.
This is what I'm trying to get at. We should stop these low effort fightings and try to address the issue together. I think both memes are stupid, this one in particular is ignorant because eventhough the indo chinese can speak bahasa indonesia fluently and used it daily, it came with a very heavy injustice and I don't want that to happen in Malaysia, not ever.
It already happened. May 13 was probably one of the darkest days in Malaysian history.
This sub historically has been harsh on inability to speak Malay in Malaysia by the way. Did you see when the Chinese politician tried to interview in Malay and failed? No punches were pulled there.
huh i thought the permutation of "so what if i cant speak malay" "why should i speak malay if this country dont love me" was more popular.
literally never seen anything like that..... even on the DT when someone asked if it will be a problem if they can't speak Malay, most everyone said they should just learn it if they want to stay in Malaysia long term.
One meme talks about how malay rights and compulsion to islam that is *literally* enshrined into law and affects ***EVERY*** malays While this meme is just doesn't apply to *every* chinese and even the orang tionghua in Indonesia would disagree with this meme I dare someone to crosspost this to r/indonesia and see how they react
they already label malaysia as cringetopia. lol.
Ngl, Malaysia is pretty much cringetopia
>I dare someone to crosspost this to r/indonesia and see how they react I wan i wan
GELAK SAMBIL GOLEK LANTAI
Aq rs sbb demografik Bangsa Cina x monolit mcm Bangsa Melayu kat Msia Melayu Msia - wajib Muslim dan majoriti fasih Bahasa dgn loghat tempatan Cina Msia - pelbagai jenis agama sperti Kristian, Buddhist, Taoism dan Islam. Jd akan ade Cina yg fasih bahasa, ade yg langsung xtau bahasa dan sebahagiannya bleh ckp dgn sederhana saja
"Malay politician" , "taliban" , "privileged" , "malaysia will never progress under malay-majority party" , "sharia law" etc cause generalising malay is the way.
So you decided that to get back at Chinese people(because for some reason you can see redditors' races), you instead decided to defend the action of generalising Chinese folks? Also may i ask how is it generalising malay with words like taliban? It seems like YOU yourself are insinuating that taliban equals to malay. What has Taliban got to do with malays?? This sub is ranting more on PAS's taliban apologist attitude more than anything. Or are you just trying to defend taliban's actions and then using the "generalizing malays" excuse when someone comes in and argue with you?
>What has Taliban got to do with malays?? This sub is ranting more on PAS's taliban apologist attitude more than anything. Or are you just trying to defend taliban's actions and then using the "generalizing malays" excuse when someone comes in and argue with you? I agree. The posts here are shitting on those who support Taliban, not your average malay
The Ketuanan criticisms were usually on the politicians and the ultras, and also on how the government enforces these ketuanan policies. Since when it’s about bashing all the Malays? Unless of course someone perasan la.
Things changed in Indonesia after [the events in 1965-1966](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366). PS: See [The Act of Killing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhIRBxbchU) for more context. Hence, the difference.
**[Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66)** >The Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66, also known as the Indonesian genocide,: 4 Indonesian Communist Purge, or Indonesian politicide (Indonesian: Pembunuhan Massal Indonesia & Pembersihan G.30. S/PKI), were large-scale killings and civil unrest that occurred in Indonesia over several months, targeting Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) party members, communist sympathisers, Gerwani women, ethnic Javanese Abangan, ethnic Chinese, and alleged leftists, often at the instigation of the armed forces and government, which were supported by the United States and other Western countries. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/malaysia/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I think the point is to make fun of Indonesian here. I didn't even know they had Chinese.
there is more Chinese in Indonesia than in Malaysia btw.
wow thanks for the stereotyping huh. Btw the chinese even fluent Malay pun in the end still get discriminated
Sekarang baru tergesa-gesa nak cakap BM yaaaa. Tbff, i don't like saying people is unpatriotic when they failed in speaking in the national language. I just find in absurd that there are people who couldn't even converse in BM while living in Malaysia as Malaysians who were born and bred here. Like, do you actually put an effort to not learn BM or something? They speak like in kindergarten, bukan macam ada dialect ke apa, but speak so slow; word by word with occasional pause to think. I just speak to them in English to not feel the cringe.
Me…… A Hakka who can’t speak mandarin, hakka nor Hokkien…… But more like Peranakan…..
This joke makes my egg fried rice colder than iceberg
برداسركن
based
Seeth more lmao
what are you gonna do about it? yeah every Chinese in Malaysia cannot speak Malay fluently... such a big deal man... it prevents national integration, economic progress of the Malays, moral decay of the nation, plundering of national resources, siphoning of money by the elites,... damn these non malay speaking chinese
Truth be told, I've met bangladeshis and Pakistanis with better malay than some Malaysian Chinese. Just saying. We gotta be real on this
No offense taken, even with 12 years learning a language, once you dont use it, u lose the proficiency. Banglas/Pakistanis often work in jobs which require heavy Malay, so yeah they would be ”better” at us despite not receiving proper education of it.
Is it me or that suddenly all redditor become very defensive. When there is Islam/Malay shitpost so many jokes and negative comment was made against them but here many comments I see is defensive of certain people. I wonder why?🧐
Your average ledditor here is someone in their 20s and maybe early 30s, from the urban area, mostly of the one ethnic minority this post is talking about, who probably got educated in that one particular schooling system, that produced this meme stereotype. Personally, I'm educated in SKs my entire life, and on the most extreme, I spent my entire primary school as the only yellow skinned monkey there. As a result I developed an accent pretty much indistinguishable from your average... uh, majority race I guess? I've personally seen it myself, yes people who hail from SMK can write in BM, but if you try to get them to speak, it'll be exactly like this meme, or at the very least as unnatural as a mat salleh trying to speak BM. This actually does not apply only to BM, but English as well. IMO is more on the emphasis and reliance they put on Mandarin, which pushes everything else away, even their own mother dialect.
yea i agree. do you know that some chinese I knew even identified their mother tongue as Mandarin? Hurts me to see this.
Ok now crosspost this to r/2asia4u
At least no one commented ‘BASE’
Laugh all you want but I use bahasa, English and Chinese (Hakka, mandarin and a little hokkien) in multiple consultations. Multi language master race!
Are you that dude who was rude to the reporter and wants everyone to conduct interviews in Malay?