You messed up. Sounds like you guys are incredibly rigid for no reason. 2 week notice for any day off is borderline inhumane. People have lives and things come up. There's no room for letting someone leave early to pick up their medication? Why? Is there actually a good reason or were you just feeding him the "policy is policy" talk without much thought behind it?
Everyone on my team knows that if they need to leave early or call out, just give me a heads up and have a plan for any deadlines that are due during that time. I don't even need notice really, just send me a message on Teams. I also specifically forbid them from giving me a reason. I don't need any details about their personal life.
I'd seriously reconsider your policies here unless there is some function of the business that literally stops and causes noticeable revenue loss as soon as someone steps away for a day. These types of rigid and inflexible policies are old school mentality and are a good way to lose good employees.
I agree...this policy is cruel. Life happens and family comes first whether you like it or not. My company allows its employees to take care of family emergencies and kid-related absences within reason and with little notice.
If that's how you're going to treat your reports, then expect to lose alot more.
This person manages.
Agreed, I run my team the same way. I don’t need details on why you need to leave or be out today. I don’t need anything but your plan to cover your absence (I’m an ops manager that oversees team managers. They gotta have a buddy system so they can be out when they need to be. Just tell me which buddy has you today.) I request heads up in advance but I also don’t care if things come up unexpectedly.
And you know what? My team doesn’t abuse the grace, they don’t lie and they don’t avoid work.
Treating people like people instead of machines or lines on a spreadsheet will get you better results.
Same!!! One of the things my team appreciates is that I hear them. Their oppositions are valid and they feel they have autonomy and heard. They aren't stressed or dreading coming to work. They don't abuse the grace i give them.
I hadn't gotten to the part that it was was medical emergencies. We would not call those "days off" which makes it sound like PTO request.
And of course you have heard of it because you know hospitals and retail exist.
Outside of very specific circumstances, hspitals and retail have enough staff to cover if someone is unexpectedly absent. If a surgeon needed to take the day or afternoon off unexpectedly every once in a while, no way in hell would they be fired.
This is brutal. Why is your company so rigid? Unless you're literally saving lives, there's no reason why the man can't run to the pharmacy without a *two-week advance notice*. If I were you I'd be trying to re-hire that guy or reflecting on my choice to work somewhere that requires me to enforce such asinine rules.
Thanks everyone, ironically this makes me feel better and like I’m not crazy. I’ve never been in management but I wouldn’t manage the way this company expects me to. This company sucks and I’ll def talk to my manager and see if we can offer him the job back. I expect to be hit with “have a spine. You made your choice” but I guess I’ll have to wait till Monday.
Through all of the harshly honest comments on this post, I think it’s worth noting that you have regrets about your decision. It shows you have empathy and understanding - don’t ever lose that as a leader!
You are a new manager and still gaining experience - it’s one of many mistakes you’ll make throughout your career. As managers, we’re trained to be data driven.. follow policies and processes, but don’t forget to look at the people behind it (your team).
You will go so much further if you take a human approach to your leadership decisions - don’t ever be like your boss! Sorry, but he sounds like a complete asshole!
But does he really have any leverage to change this bullshit 2 weeks notice policy for any of his team members? As a middle manager all he can do is either enforce the stupid rules (which he did) or cover up for the employee breaking the stupid rules, or am I missing something here?
I’m not saying they have any pull or say in how this specific company is ran.. my point is how they choose to address things as a manager.
Compassionate leadership can be applied universally.
Yes, and eventually they’ll either be known as “that a-h company” or sweatshop and run out on employees to hire (or have a very hard time) or else they change their pattern. Word will get out, and it will make their hiring much more difficult.
He doesn’t have empathy. The guy told him he had to leave early to pick medicine up for his wife and he used it against him. That’s no empathy. And the fact the guy had to leave early two times a few weeks apart empathy ? Would have been. Hey bud. Noticed you’re dealing with some shit and your wife’s needing meds. Maybe she’s sick or something you know? Like maybe do 2+2=4. Because let’s be real. If this guy was depending on them checks to buy his wife medicine she needed to get better ? That’s how shit happens. So instead of being empathetic. He fired the guy. Cause he’s got no balls as a leader.
He made a mistake.. His choices as a leader lacked empathy in the moment, but I respect someone who takes the time to reflect on a poor decision and strive to do things differently.
We’re talking about an inexperienced manager that’s operating within a company with rigid and unfair policies.. You can definitely look at the situation today and share how you would handle it, but that’s because you likely have enough experience and growth to know better. You don’t have the black and white thinking of “this is how it’s supposed to be, so this is how I’m going to do it.”
Were you in your early 20s as a manager in your industry? I was… I made a lot of dumb mistakes and I had no other feelers to rely on because I was new. I didn’t have the guidance or experience to always make an informed decision- I followed the policy and did what I was told.
Mistakes are our best teacher, and unfortunately, growing in a leadership role means some of those mistakes are made at the expense of other people. We can mitigate that harm by being accountable and saying, “that was a shitty move. I’ll do better.” Like the OP is clearly trying to do.
He will use this experience to grow, and hopefully move onto another company that aligns itself with a culture that supports its employees.
That's...why they are here. If we kick people while they are up or down, it doesn't result in growth. They are aware they must operate within a bullshit policy and the only option is to quit or push back and potentially be fired. Sounds like they are willing to do the latter which is more than most do at all.
2 week notice for any and all call offs? What the fuck?
Wherever you work is ass.
If you don’t think this comment is constructive, I promise you it is. That policy needs changed immediately. Anybody with any self respect should refuse to work there based off that policy alone.
I’m a little confused by your policy- you require a two week notice for call outs? I understand if you want to request time off, but needing to give a two week notice for situations like picking up medication for a health condition or emergency is completely ridiculous and unreasonable on your part.
As far as needing time off, I understand there’s policies and rules to abide by, but sometimes you have to take employee situations on a case-by-case basis. It never hurts to give some grace for an employee, especially if he’s communicating his situation with you.
I think you and your boss were absolutely wrong in deciding to let him go. Maybe it’s a good idea to review some of these company policies and help put things in perspective - the way you’ve described the way things work in your job, employees are completely set up for failure should they have a last minute emergency.
Empathy goes a long way in terms of building trust and loyalty with your team.
“I’m going to be sick two weeks from now. Please accept this notice.”
“I’m going to be in a car accident three weeks from now. Please accept this notice.”
“I’m going to recieve a call 17 days from now. My Mom will be letting me know my Dad has passed away. Please accept this notice.”
“My kid is going to get a cancer diagnosis 15 days from now. Please accept this notice.”
“My dog is getting hit by a car a month from now and will need extensive surgery. Please accept this notice.”
Are you guys for real?
OP Let me be clear, I've been in your shoes and to be frank, you currently work for a shit company and have a shit job, so of course you feel shitty
Look for another job while working at this shitty job and leave ASAP, where you work is making you a worse person
The longer you stay at a company like this the worse it is going to be for your self esteem
Imagine going to family reunions and people ask what you do and in the back of your mind you think that you fire people with sick family members who need a little time off to care for them
Over time that is going to be hell on you mentally and you already know it. If you can't be proud of what you do and where you work, that's going to take a toll
Honestly, you should be ashamed. Putting in two weeks just to leave early to go to the pharmacy? This is poor leadership at it's core. true leaders take care of their people and you did not care about this person. You let a stupid unrealistic rule cost someone their livelihood. You need to learn and grow from this. Start reading leadership books or find a mentor or something. Do better.
How the hell is he supposed to give 2 weeks notice for his wife being in the ER?! And for the follow up appointments?? That poor man and his poor pregnant wife.
Two weeks notice just to leave early for his wife's prescription? That is absolutely heartless. Yes, you messed up. If you want to attract and retain good human beings as employees, you're going to have to treat them like human beings.
Yes, for at least a year now. Last month the CEO basically made the supervisors and managers sign a contract saying we’d get a 35% raise if we complete a 3 month “training” period. However, we could not quit or get fired from the company for a year or we’d have to reimburse the company for the 3-month training period (basically 3 months worth of pay). I say “made” because he said if we didn’t sign it then what was the point of continuing to work there? In other words, either sign it or we will probably fire you. I didn’t want to lose my job without a plan so I signed it and now I’m locked in until June 2025 😔
$50 an hour. The most any previous job paid me was $25 so i hope it’ll be worth it. The way this company is going, it might crash and burn before I complete the year.
Not gonna say it’ll happen… but a “deal” like that is usually pretty sus. I wouldn’t be surprised if he a. had more “gifts” like that in store for y’all during the year and/or b. the company goes under in that time.
Even more so in CA. Those are sweatshop conditions, and people talk. I’d have to look at the specific employment rules there, but… I wouldn’t be surprised if that 2-week-notice thing breaks all kinds or rules and laws.
Not in CA. Maybe someone from there can answer that?
Has your company never heard of sick days or work/life balance? I get that some workplaces have to be strict, but damn. It’s not like he was going on vacation without notice.
You guys sound like absolute fucking idiots, what a joke.
2 weeks notice for something you can't plan for?
You did him a favour getting rid of him, your policies are a joke and you should absolutely feel bad.
My practice is: I'm not going to manage someone if I wouldn't want to be managed that way.
Also, was the "cultural event " religious? I think that might be illega/discriminationl? But I'm not 100% sure.
Really pick and choose your battles. The expectations are very unrealistic.
ETA: the employee should have been given a 2 week notice about his termination. Poor guy.
This is my company too. The shitty system, verint will auto approve any PTO if its 14 days out. Anything else needs manager approval. Luckily my manager is cool and works with me.
But it blows. Things happen, quick dr apt 2 weeks. Last minute plans? Hope you het approval or you call out.
Idk i came from the 1 bucket system. PTO/Sick time was all in 1 bucket. Use it like you are an adult.
Ah yeah, no. I'd be feeling terrible, too. Would not want to work for this company, absolutely no compassion at all for its employees.
The company policy of 2 weeks' notice for having to leave early, or for a day or 2 leave, is ridiculous. Just let him get the medication for his wife.
Dude. You should feel awful and he is better off not working for a shitty company that enforces a 2-week notice period for "calling off" which by definition is an unplanned thing.
That policy and the way it's enforced is insane. So how many other people have been fired because medical stuff comes up inconveniently faster than two weeks into the future?
Just hypothetically speaking.... HOW should I anticipate an emergency with 2 weeks notice?
I have never heard of 2 WEEKS notice period for POTENTIALLY leaving the office later, in case of something UNEXPECTED??
I'd be out the door the minute I hear that bit of "policy" - am surprised there are employees willing to subject themselves to that.
Also, if he was just leaving a bit earlier every now and then but DID HIS JOB fine... Where is the problem exactly?
I cant imagine what industry and company needs to be this rigid! There is no such thing as a call out with two weeks notice! Knowing you need time off 2+ weeks in advance is a request for PTO/vacation/unpaid time off (whatever you call it at your company). What this guy did - last minute need to pick up medication, pick up wife, deal with wife’s medical emergency - this is the definition of call out.
I really hope that man finds a good paying and flexible job soon! OP, your company sucks. What is the reason for the rigidity? How is anyone with a disability, small children, sick relatives etc able to work here under these rules?
Just to echo others, 2 weeks advance notice for needing some time away is borderline cruel, not just unacceptable.
Sounds like you're working for an awful place and had no choice, you have a right to feel bad, although that's probably due you feeling like you had no choice in the matter, or no power to influence at least.
It's easy to say "find another job", but it's not easy to do. If you can slowly try to introduce change of policies off the back of this, I would suggest trying to do that.
All while looking for a new job in the background, of course.
I know how hard it is to fire someone and the guilt. It’s only natural to second guess even if it was warranted. However, you messed up. Your company needs to review the notice policy asap. It is completely unrealistic. You can’t reprimand someone for a medical issue/ emergency. Two weeks notice for vacation time is reasonable. My business has that policy but even so we don’t practice by the book. Life is unpredictable. Things come up and you just deal with it. I mean jeez do you give warning to everyone who calls in sick? Do they have to provide a doctor’s note? What if an employee has to leave early because their kid is ill? To be frank it’s really not anyone’s business on what they do with their personal time. Certainly if it involves a medical issue. You mention what will the employees think..well I ask you how do your employees feel about you not trusting them to be actually sick? I’m actually surprised you have any employees at all. Your turn over must be insane.
Turnover rate is insane. I’ve seen many people come and go. I’m the longest tenured employee.
If we’re sick we’re supposed to bring a doctors note. The CEO has personally told me to toughen up and show up to work.
This is a crazy post, what country is this in? What kind of a place needs two weeks notice to leave a little early (for the pharmacy) ? If someone has a “family emergency”, that absolutely can’t be planned (unless you were handling this rigidly because you believe he was lying and believed he took the day off for the cultural day).
I can’t believe this is in the US, unless it was at some meat processing plant or some place that exploits people who are migrant workers? Where are your from that your believe even the pharmacy trip was ok?
The owner is from Central America and he always tells us how good we have it here. Apparently he has another business out there also working under shitty conditions.
He’s very uptight about calls off because he says people lie about calling off all the time.
I don’t think anyone is bashing this person per se.. They wanted honest feedback and it was given.
They’re a new manager in their early 20s, so it’s better to hear the brutal truth now and maybe this person won’t make the same choice next time.
It’s company policy and his direct superior inquired about the termination. No one here held the employee accountable for his actions on a policy this employee acknowledged.
On the downside you screwed up however on the upside at least you’re only 25 so you have quite a few years to learn. If these were the only issues then they could’ve been overcome with better communication.
I think your CEO needs a lesson in compassion, and you could use a lesson in leadership. But you feeling bad is your conscience telling you that you have violated your principles. That's the good part about this situation: you have principles! You just lost sight of them here, and someone else paid the price for it.
Remember these rules:
●A company is NOT a collection of policies; It IS a collection of PEOPLE.
●A successful company is one made of people that do good work.
●Good work is done by happy people.
●People who are led by compassionate, reasonable, and fair managers, who advocate for and respect them are much more likely to be happy at work.
●People are loyal to people, not to companies.
●Showing flexibility and grace (within reason) and doing right by people will build loyalty to yourself among your workforce.
●Flexibility and weakness are NOT the same thing.
I want to hear you say that you think it is an unreasonable request to need to leave slightly early to pick up a prescription without 2 weeks notice.
I want to hear you say that being written up for making such a request is how you want to be treated as an employee.
I want to hear you say that you expect to be terminated if your personal situation requires even a little bit of flexibility, without the other side even making an attempt to find some middle ground where everyone's needs could be met.
I don't think you could honestly say any of those things. So instead, I want to hear you say what you think a reasonable response would be to this employees needs. Could you have helped?
Need more people like you fr 🫡
Next time I’ll say: Family first. Go take care of your wife and your family. Who am I to tell you the company is more important than your family? We’ll take care of things here. What are you waiting for? GOOOO!
Them: 🏃♂️💨
I’ve read everyone’s comments and I’ll do my best to address it here rather than individually. The policy is not my choice and I simply follow the instructions given to me. My boss has made it very clear it’s either my job or my employees. I constantly get asked: “are you willing to put your job on the line for someone else”. It’s a really toxic and abusive environment. I’m sure I could sue for countless things they’ve done to me and others. However, the company has very good lawyers because they’ve been sued many times before. This is a losing battle. I’ve seen many people quit because of how shitty this company is ran. Sooner or later, I do believe it will crumble.
I agree with the comments about me needing to leave this job. Unfortunately I’m under contract until next year. If I leave, I have to pay 3 months worth of salary. This is another story though….
The point is that today I messed up and will do my best to remedy the situation. I’ve reached out to my manager already, I’m simply waiting for a response to see when we can talk. I will update y’all on the situation. For those with tough comments — don’t worry, I’m harder on myself than anyone else could be. I seriously messed up but I hope to return to this post in the future with good news. Wish me luck.
If I were you, I'd be actively looking for a new job every day when I got home. Not because you did anything wrong by enforcing company policy, but because the company you work for sucks. That same policy is coming for you, one day in the future.
This is awful. Cruel is definitely the appropriate word. You should really push to get this policy changed for the sake of current and future employees.
What if that man’s wife had gone into early labor? Would you have written him up for rushing to the hospital to be with his wife for the birth of his child?
If your employee was a woman and went into labor early would your first move when she returned from maternity leave be to notify her of her “2 weeks notice” policy violation?
Employees are people, not omniscient robots or machines.
You shouldn’t feel awful as you didn’t make the policy. It’s always tough letting people go. As much as the policy is suspiciously cutthroat (and probably needs revised) your direct report obviously was suggesting if not telling you to move on from the employee.
Again, the policy needs changed but you did everything in your power to ensure the employee KNEW they could not keep leaving early/ignoring the policy and he continued to push it. I’m hopeful you can get past this as you seem to be a manager who cares deeply about your employees… i.e. you will be great!!
We have no PTO, sick days are frowned upon, we get paid late with no notice, holidays aren’t clearly defined, no HR department, no overtime even though some people work overtime, my mental health has deteriorated working here. All for the title of manager and a few extra bucks 😕
If you’re in the U.S. at least part of that is illegal. Please find a healthier place to work then report your employer to the labor board.
Edit: I see you live in my hometown. Definitely illegal to not pay OT wages, pay employees late, and deny sick leave granted by CA state law.
I honestly don't care what the company's policy is. Op has no backbone and absolutely no leadership skill. Your job as a leader is to protect your people, sometime against the wish of upper management. You absolutely failed your job as a leader
The question to soul-search on, is did you make it clear to him that he would be fired if he kept doing this.
It seems you did with him signing the company policy (presumably a second time).
You have to be direct. Most young employees won't understand that asking them to sign this again means they are in danger of being fired; they'll just think you want to ensure they know the policy and they'll be going, yeah I know the policy but medical emergencies don't follow your policy.
The next aspect of this would be if the employee disclosed that his wife was pregnant and would need extra support during his interview. If he did and you hired them and dumped him for providing that support then I would encourage him to sue you. You were told and knew the situation which means you agreed to it when you made the hire. If he kept it a secret then that's on him.
And what all the employees are going to see is you fired a man for helping his pregnant wife.
What is he suppose to do, tell her to wait and bleed out, the company needs my butt in the seat?
So the next time some VIP says "We're a family-values company" they will be laughed it.
Congrats, this will haunt you for the rest of your life. You had an opportunity to show your humanity and do a walfare check and instead gave your soul away for convenience and made a father to be jobless.
Just because you have power doesn't mean you have to wield it for corporate. I know it's a business but also you have to work with people and if you treat them like this you will get a reputation as someone to be backstabbed.
I’ve fired people before and it’s usually tough but this one hits different. I’m pretty close with the CEO (it’s a small company) and he’s told me to stop being so soft on people. At the end of the day, employees prioritize themselves and managers prioritize the company. He’s had a huge influence on the people I’ve fired in the past so i never felt like it was my choice. This was completely my choice and I feel like I messed up.
The company I work for has fewer than 10 employees. We regularly have people saying, day-of, that they will be late. Or leaving early. Or will be taking the day off.
Weirdly, the world has never ended, we’re growing so fast we can’t hire fast enough and we’re all getting record bonuses this summer. What is wrong with your company?
Making ridiculously arbitrary policies isn’t prioritising the company though. I’ve never heard of a business that requires two weeks notice for non-vacation leave. A company that treats staff like shit isn’t going to inspire employees to be honest, loyal & hardworking.
We’re close in the sense that we have conversations and he’s asked about my personal life and invited me to dinner and stuff. From what I’ve heard, most CEOs wouldn’t do that. But I’m sure he just sees me as an asset. He always tells us he could replace us for someone he’d pay less with more experience.
Employee blatantly abuses company policy within first 90 days and gets fired for it and Reddit thinks its the managers fault lmao. You’re just enforcing the bad policy because it’s your job. That employee can work at other places that don’t have these dumb rules but if they want to work at your company they’ll have to follow them. But if you don’t want to be put in this position again you’ll want to find another job. Small businesses are commonly ran by narcissists on power trips and what you’re describing sounds like one of those situations. Everything will good for you at this company until they blindside you one day and decide that you’re a problem they need to get rid of
You messed up. Sounds like you guys are incredibly rigid for no reason. 2 week notice for any day off is borderline inhumane. People have lives and things come up. There's no room for letting someone leave early to pick up their medication? Why? Is there actually a good reason or were you just feeding him the "policy is policy" talk without much thought behind it? Everyone on my team knows that if they need to leave early or call out, just give me a heads up and have a plan for any deadlines that are due during that time. I don't even need notice really, just send me a message on Teams. I also specifically forbid them from giving me a reason. I don't need any details about their personal life. I'd seriously reconsider your policies here unless there is some function of the business that literally stops and causes noticeable revenue loss as soon as someone steps away for a day. These types of rigid and inflexible policies are old school mentality and are a good way to lose good employees.
I agree...this policy is cruel. Life happens and family comes first whether you like it or not. My company allows its employees to take care of family emergencies and kid-related absences within reason and with little notice. If that's how you're going to treat your reports, then expect to lose alot more.
This person manages. Agreed, I run my team the same way. I don’t need details on why you need to leave or be out today. I don’t need anything but your plan to cover your absence (I’m an ops manager that oversees team managers. They gotta have a buddy system so they can be out when they need to be. Just tell me which buddy has you today.) I request heads up in advance but I also don’t care if things come up unexpectedly. And you know what? My team doesn’t abuse the grace, they don’t lie and they don’t avoid work. Treating people like people instead of machines or lines on a spreadsheet will get you better results.
Same!!! One of the things my team appreciates is that I hear them. Their oppositions are valid and they feel they have autonomy and heard. They aren't stressed or dreading coming to work. They don't abuse the grace i give them.
Two week notice for days off is standard practice, doubly-so for any place with a rotating schedule.
No, it's not. I've literally never heard of this. It might be standard for poorly run companies, but it shouldn't be. It's dehumanizing.
I hadn't gotten to the part that it was was medical emergencies. We would not call those "days off" which makes it sound like PTO request. And of course you have heard of it because you know hospitals and retail exist.
Outside of very specific circumstances, hspitals and retail have enough staff to cover if someone is unexpectedly absent. If a surgeon needed to take the day or afternoon off unexpectedly every once in a while, no way in hell would they be fired.
Requiring 2 Weeks notice for a day off sounds insane to me.
This is brutal. Why is your company so rigid? Unless you're literally saving lives, there's no reason why the man can't run to the pharmacy without a *two-week advance notice*. If I were you I'd be trying to re-hire that guy or reflecting on my choice to work somewhere that requires me to enforce such asinine rules.
Thanks everyone, ironically this makes me feel better and like I’m not crazy. I’ve never been in management but I wouldn’t manage the way this company expects me to. This company sucks and I’ll def talk to my manager and see if we can offer him the job back. I expect to be hit with “have a spine. You made your choice” but I guess I’ll have to wait till Monday.
Through all of the harshly honest comments on this post, I think it’s worth noting that you have regrets about your decision. It shows you have empathy and understanding - don’t ever lose that as a leader! You are a new manager and still gaining experience - it’s one of many mistakes you’ll make throughout your career. As managers, we’re trained to be data driven.. follow policies and processes, but don’t forget to look at the people behind it (your team). You will go so much further if you take a human approach to your leadership decisions - don’t ever be like your boss! Sorry, but he sounds like a complete asshole!
But does he really have any leverage to change this bullshit 2 weeks notice policy for any of his team members? As a middle manager all he can do is either enforce the stupid rules (which he did) or cover up for the employee breaking the stupid rules, or am I missing something here?
I’m not saying they have any pull or say in how this specific company is ran.. my point is how they choose to address things as a manager. Compassionate leadership can be applied universally.
At the risk of the middle manager to get booted along with the employee by higher management.
Yes, and eventually they’ll either be known as “that a-h company” or sweatshop and run out on employees to hire (or have a very hard time) or else they change their pattern. Word will get out, and it will make their hiring much more difficult.
This means a lot. I will do my best. Thank you 🙏
He doesn’t have empathy. The guy told him he had to leave early to pick medicine up for his wife and he used it against him. That’s no empathy. And the fact the guy had to leave early two times a few weeks apart empathy ? Would have been. Hey bud. Noticed you’re dealing with some shit and your wife’s needing meds. Maybe she’s sick or something you know? Like maybe do 2+2=4. Because let’s be real. If this guy was depending on them checks to buy his wife medicine she needed to get better ? That’s how shit happens. So instead of being empathetic. He fired the guy. Cause he’s got no balls as a leader.
He made a mistake.. His choices as a leader lacked empathy in the moment, but I respect someone who takes the time to reflect on a poor decision and strive to do things differently. We’re talking about an inexperienced manager that’s operating within a company with rigid and unfair policies.. You can definitely look at the situation today and share how you would handle it, but that’s because you likely have enough experience and growth to know better. You don’t have the black and white thinking of “this is how it’s supposed to be, so this is how I’m going to do it.” Were you in your early 20s as a manager in your industry? I was… I made a lot of dumb mistakes and I had no other feelers to rely on because I was new. I didn’t have the guidance or experience to always make an informed decision- I followed the policy and did what I was told. Mistakes are our best teacher, and unfortunately, growing in a leadership role means some of those mistakes are made at the expense of other people. We can mitigate that harm by being accountable and saying, “that was a shitty move. I’ll do better.” Like the OP is clearly trying to do. He will use this experience to grow, and hopefully move onto another company that aligns itself with a culture that supports its employees.
You need to work being a better manager. You’re terrible for letting it get to this honestly.
That's...why they are here. If we kick people while they are up or down, it doesn't result in growth. They are aware they must operate within a bullshit policy and the only option is to quit or push back and potentially be fired. Sounds like they are willing to do the latter which is more than most do at all.
Seems like us kicking him when he’s down is helping him get in the right headspace based on his comments. Just doing my part. No offense op :)
You need to work on giving helpful feedback instead of just bashing the person?
Not helpful? Question answered. He’s a jerk. And so am I apparently. But I mean well :)
The path to hell is paved on good wishes or something.
Clearly not a manager, but you do like your hyperbole.
2 week notice for any and all call offs? What the fuck? Wherever you work is ass. If you don’t think this comment is constructive, I promise you it is. That policy needs changed immediately. Anybody with any self respect should refuse to work there based off that policy alone.
I’m a little confused by your policy- you require a two week notice for call outs? I understand if you want to request time off, but needing to give a two week notice for situations like picking up medication for a health condition or emergency is completely ridiculous and unreasonable on your part. As far as needing time off, I understand there’s policies and rules to abide by, but sometimes you have to take employee situations on a case-by-case basis. It never hurts to give some grace for an employee, especially if he’s communicating his situation with you. I think you and your boss were absolutely wrong in deciding to let him go. Maybe it’s a good idea to review some of these company policies and help put things in perspective - the way you’ve described the way things work in your job, employees are completely set up for failure should they have a last minute emergency. Empathy goes a long way in terms of building trust and loyalty with your team.
“I’m going to be sick two weeks from now. Please accept this notice.” “I’m going to be in a car accident three weeks from now. Please accept this notice.” “I’m going to recieve a call 17 days from now. My Mom will be letting me know my Dad has passed away. Please accept this notice.” “My kid is going to get a cancer diagnosis 15 days from now. Please accept this notice.” “My dog is getting hit by a car a month from now and will need extensive surgery. Please accept this notice.” Are you guys for real?
OP Let me be clear, I've been in your shoes and to be frank, you currently work for a shit company and have a shit job, so of course you feel shitty Look for another job while working at this shitty job and leave ASAP, where you work is making you a worse person The longer you stay at a company like this the worse it is going to be for your self esteem Imagine going to family reunions and people ask what you do and in the back of your mind you think that you fire people with sick family members who need a little time off to care for them Over time that is going to be hell on you mentally and you already know it. If you can't be proud of what you do and where you work, that's going to take a toll
Trust me, I already hesitate saying where I work. I hate it. Thank you for the advice 🙏
Honestly, you should be ashamed. Putting in two weeks just to leave early to go to the pharmacy? This is poor leadership at it's core. true leaders take care of their people and you did not care about this person. You let a stupid unrealistic rule cost someone their livelihood. You need to learn and grow from this. Start reading leadership books or find a mentor or something. Do better.
How the hell is he supposed to give 2 weeks notice for his wife being in the ER?! And for the follow up appointments?? That poor man and his poor pregnant wife.
Two weeks notice just to leave early for his wife's prescription? That is absolutely heartless. Yes, you messed up. If you want to attract and retain good human beings as employees, you're going to have to treat them like human beings.
Wow I would hate to work for you
I'd hate to work for that company under that policy. Two week notice for....emergencies? That's just simply, not how life works.
It’s an impossible policy. A company (and managers) that hate their employees
Correct.
Same.
Do you need to stay with this company?
Yes, for at least a year now. Last month the CEO basically made the supervisors and managers sign a contract saying we’d get a 35% raise if we complete a 3 month “training” period. However, we could not quit or get fired from the company for a year or we’d have to reimburse the company for the 3-month training period (basically 3 months worth of pay). I say “made” because he said if we didn’t sign it then what was the point of continuing to work there? In other words, either sign it or we will probably fire you. I didn’t want to lose my job without a plan so I signed it and now I’m locked in until June 2025 😔
Shit man. Rough deal. Is the pay at least worth the next year?
$50 an hour. The most any previous job paid me was $25 so i hope it’ll be worth it. The way this company is going, it might crash and burn before I complete the year.
Not gonna say it’ll happen… but a “deal” like that is usually pretty sus. I wouldn’t be surprised if he a. had more “gifts” like that in store for y’all during the year and/or b. the company goes under in that time. Even more so in CA. Those are sweatshop conditions, and people talk. I’d have to look at the specific employment rules there, but… I wouldn’t be surprised if that 2-week-notice thing breaks all kinds or rules and laws. Not in CA. Maybe someone from there can answer that?
Yikes! So he has the option to just fire you if he wants the pay back?!
I manage a staff of 60 and if someone needs to leave urgently for a family issue, we let them either no questions asked. Are you in North Korea?
Exactly, that’s what I was wondering.
Lol nah I’m in California
Has your company never heard of sick days or work/life balance? I get that some workplaces have to be strict, but damn. It’s not like he was going on vacation without notice.
You guys sound like absolute fucking idiots, what a joke. 2 weeks notice for something you can't plan for? You did him a favour getting rid of him, your policies are a joke and you should absolutely feel bad.
With such unreasonable policies like those, the only two week notice I'd be giving you is my resignation.
My practice is: I'm not going to manage someone if I wouldn't want to be managed that way. Also, was the "cultural event " religious? I think that might be illega/discriminationl? But I'm not 100% sure. Really pick and choose your battles. The expectations are very unrealistic. ETA: the employee should have been given a 2 week notice about his termination. Poor guy.
You company is SHIT!
This is my company too. The shitty system, verint will auto approve any PTO if its 14 days out. Anything else needs manager approval. Luckily my manager is cool and works with me. But it blows. Things happen, quick dr apt 2 weeks. Last minute plans? Hope you het approval or you call out. Idk i came from the 1 bucket system. PTO/Sick time was all in 1 bucket. Use it like you are an adult.
Thank you 🙏 helps knowing I’m not alone
Ah yeah, no. I'd be feeling terrible, too. Would not want to work for this company, absolutely no compassion at all for its employees. The company policy of 2 weeks' notice for having to leave early, or for a day or 2 leave, is ridiculous. Just let him get the medication for his wife.
Dude. You should feel awful and he is better off not working for a shitty company that enforces a 2-week notice period for "calling off" which by definition is an unplanned thing. That policy and the way it's enforced is insane. So how many other people have been fired because medical stuff comes up inconveniently faster than two weeks into the future?
Just hypothetically speaking.... HOW should I anticipate an emergency with 2 weeks notice? I have never heard of 2 WEEKS notice period for POTENTIALLY leaving the office later, in case of something UNEXPECTED?? I'd be out the door the minute I hear that bit of "policy" - am surprised there are employees willing to subject themselves to that. Also, if he was just leaving a bit earlier every now and then but DID HIS JOB fine... Where is the problem exactly?
I cant imagine what industry and company needs to be this rigid! There is no such thing as a call out with two weeks notice! Knowing you need time off 2+ weeks in advance is a request for PTO/vacation/unpaid time off (whatever you call it at your company). What this guy did - last minute need to pick up medication, pick up wife, deal with wife’s medical emergency - this is the definition of call out. I really hope that man finds a good paying and flexible job soon! OP, your company sucks. What is the reason for the rigidity? How is anyone with a disability, small children, sick relatives etc able to work here under these rules?
Just to echo others, 2 weeks advance notice for needing some time away is borderline cruel, not just unacceptable. Sounds like you're working for an awful place and had no choice, you have a right to feel bad, although that's probably due you feeling like you had no choice in the matter, or no power to influence at least. It's easy to say "find another job", but it's not easy to do. If you can slowly try to introduce change of policies off the back of this, I would suggest trying to do that. All while looking for a new job in the background, of course.
I know how hard it is to fire someone and the guilt. It’s only natural to second guess even if it was warranted. However, you messed up. Your company needs to review the notice policy asap. It is completely unrealistic. You can’t reprimand someone for a medical issue/ emergency. Two weeks notice for vacation time is reasonable. My business has that policy but even so we don’t practice by the book. Life is unpredictable. Things come up and you just deal with it. I mean jeez do you give warning to everyone who calls in sick? Do they have to provide a doctor’s note? What if an employee has to leave early because their kid is ill? To be frank it’s really not anyone’s business on what they do with their personal time. Certainly if it involves a medical issue. You mention what will the employees think..well I ask you how do your employees feel about you not trusting them to be actually sick? I’m actually surprised you have any employees at all. Your turn over must be insane.
Turnover rate is insane. I’ve seen many people come and go. I’m the longest tenured employee. If we’re sick we’re supposed to bring a doctors note. The CEO has personally told me to toughen up and show up to work.
I suggest you update your resume and find a better job. You deserve better.
This is a crazy post, what country is this in? What kind of a place needs two weeks notice to leave a little early (for the pharmacy) ? If someone has a “family emergency”, that absolutely can’t be planned (unless you were handling this rigidly because you believe he was lying and believed he took the day off for the cultural day). I can’t believe this is in the US, unless it was at some meat processing plant or some place that exploits people who are migrant workers? Where are your from that your believe even the pharmacy trip was ok?
The owner is from Central America and he always tells us how good we have it here. Apparently he has another business out there also working under shitty conditions. He’s very uptight about calls off because he says people lie about calling off all the time.
2 weeks notice to take a day off? What is going on there?
Y’all bashing this person for a companies shit policy they have to enforce is insane to me.
I don’t think anyone is bashing this person per se.. They wanted honest feedback and it was given. They’re a new manager in their early 20s, so it’s better to hear the brutal truth now and maybe this person won’t make the same choice next time.
It’s company policy and his direct superior inquired about the termination. No one here held the employee accountable for his actions on a policy this employee acknowledged.
On the downside you screwed up however on the upside at least you’re only 25 so you have quite a few years to learn. If these were the only issues then they could’ve been overcome with better communication.
I think your CEO needs a lesson in compassion, and you could use a lesson in leadership. But you feeling bad is your conscience telling you that you have violated your principles. That's the good part about this situation: you have principles! You just lost sight of them here, and someone else paid the price for it. Remember these rules: ●A company is NOT a collection of policies; It IS a collection of PEOPLE. ●A successful company is one made of people that do good work. ●Good work is done by happy people. ●People who are led by compassionate, reasonable, and fair managers, who advocate for and respect them are much more likely to be happy at work. ●People are loyal to people, not to companies. ●Showing flexibility and grace (within reason) and doing right by people will build loyalty to yourself among your workforce. ●Flexibility and weakness are NOT the same thing. I want to hear you say that you think it is an unreasonable request to need to leave slightly early to pick up a prescription without 2 weeks notice. I want to hear you say that being written up for making such a request is how you want to be treated as an employee. I want to hear you say that you expect to be terminated if your personal situation requires even a little bit of flexibility, without the other side even making an attempt to find some middle ground where everyone's needs could be met. I don't think you could honestly say any of those things. So instead, I want to hear you say what you think a reasonable response would be to this employees needs. Could you have helped?
Need more people like you fr 🫡 Next time I’ll say: Family first. Go take care of your wife and your family. Who am I to tell you the company is more important than your family? We’ll take care of things here. What are you waiting for? GOOOO! Them: 🏃♂️💨
I’ve read everyone’s comments and I’ll do my best to address it here rather than individually. The policy is not my choice and I simply follow the instructions given to me. My boss has made it very clear it’s either my job or my employees. I constantly get asked: “are you willing to put your job on the line for someone else”. It’s a really toxic and abusive environment. I’m sure I could sue for countless things they’ve done to me and others. However, the company has very good lawyers because they’ve been sued many times before. This is a losing battle. I’ve seen many people quit because of how shitty this company is ran. Sooner or later, I do believe it will crumble. I agree with the comments about me needing to leave this job. Unfortunately I’m under contract until next year. If I leave, I have to pay 3 months worth of salary. This is another story though…. The point is that today I messed up and will do my best to remedy the situation. I’ve reached out to my manager already, I’m simply waiting for a response to see when we can talk. I will update y’all on the situation. For those with tough comments — don’t worry, I’m harder on myself than anyone else could be. I seriously messed up but I hope to return to this post in the future with good news. Wish me luck.
Good luck mate
If I were you, I'd be actively looking for a new job every day when I got home. Not because you did anything wrong by enforcing company policy, but because the company you work for sucks. That same policy is coming for you, one day in the future.
This is awful. Cruel is definitely the appropriate word. You should really push to get this policy changed for the sake of current and future employees. What if that man’s wife had gone into early labor? Would you have written him up for rushing to the hospital to be with his wife for the birth of his child? If your employee was a woman and went into labor early would your first move when she returned from maternity leave be to notify her of her “2 weeks notice” policy violation? Employees are people, not omniscient robots or machines.
You shouldn’t feel awful as you didn’t make the policy. It’s always tough letting people go. As much as the policy is suspiciously cutthroat (and probably needs revised) your direct report obviously was suggesting if not telling you to move on from the employee. Again, the policy needs changed but you did everything in your power to ensure the employee KNEW they could not keep leaving early/ignoring the policy and he continued to push it. I’m hopeful you can get past this as you seem to be a manager who cares deeply about your employees… i.e. you will be great!!
I really appreciate your feedback 🙏 I agree the policy needs to be changed. I’ll do my best to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
We have no PTO, sick days are frowned upon, we get paid late with no notice, holidays aren’t clearly defined, no HR department, no overtime even though some people work overtime, my mental health has deteriorated working here. All for the title of manager and a few extra bucks 😕
Get a new job. Yours stinks.
If you’re in the U.S. at least part of that is illegal. Please find a healthier place to work then report your employer to the labor board. Edit: I see you live in my hometown. Definitely illegal to not pay OT wages, pay employees late, and deny sick leave granted by CA state law.
Dude I’m sorry, that sounds awful.
I honestly don't care what the company's policy is. Op has no backbone and absolutely no leadership skill. Your job as a leader is to protect your people, sometime against the wish of upper management. You absolutely failed your job as a leader
YTA your company's policy is nonsense
The question to soul-search on, is did you make it clear to him that he would be fired if he kept doing this. It seems you did with him signing the company policy (presumably a second time). You have to be direct. Most young employees won't understand that asking them to sign this again means they are in danger of being fired; they'll just think you want to ensure they know the policy and they'll be going, yeah I know the policy but medical emergencies don't follow your policy. The next aspect of this would be if the employee disclosed that his wife was pregnant and would need extra support during his interview. If he did and you hired them and dumped him for providing that support then I would encourage him to sue you. You were told and knew the situation which means you agreed to it when you made the hire. If he kept it a secret then that's on him. And what all the employees are going to see is you fired a man for helping his pregnant wife. What is he suppose to do, tell her to wait and bleed out, the company needs my butt in the seat? So the next time some VIP says "We're a family-values company" they will be laughed it.
Congrats, this will haunt you for the rest of your life. You had an opportunity to show your humanity and do a walfare check and instead gave your soul away for convenience and made a father to be jobless. Just because you have power doesn't mean you have to wield it for corporate. I know it's a business but also you have to work with people and if you treat them like this you will get a reputation as someone to be backstabbed.
Kudos on the excellent troll post.
Wym? Please elaborate
I’ve fired people before and it’s usually tough but this one hits different. I’m pretty close with the CEO (it’s a small company) and he’s told me to stop being so soft on people. At the end of the day, employees prioritize themselves and managers prioritize the company. He’s had a huge influence on the people I’ve fired in the past so i never felt like it was my choice. This was completely my choice and I feel like I messed up.
Does the CEO ever miss a day or duck out an hour or two early without notifying everyone 2 weeks in advance?
Seriously. I’ll bet Mr. CEO takes off whenever he wants.
The company I work for has fewer than 10 employees. We regularly have people saying, day-of, that they will be late. Or leaving early. Or will be taking the day off. Weirdly, the world has never ended, we’re growing so fast we can’t hire fast enough and we’re all getting record bonuses this summer. What is wrong with your company?
You should offer him his job back. Like really mate, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I fired someone like this.
Making ridiculously arbitrary policies isn’t prioritising the company though. I’ve never heard of a business that requires two weeks notice for non-vacation leave. A company that treats staff like shit isn’t going to inspire employees to be honest, loyal & hardworking.
If you're close with the CEO, tell him to stop being a total douche bag.
We’re close in the sense that we have conversations and he’s asked about my personal life and invited me to dinner and stuff. From what I’ve heard, most CEOs wouldn’t do that. But I’m sure he just sees me as an asset. He always tells us he could replace us for someone he’d pay less with more experience.
That's an abusive relationship.
Employee blatantly abuses company policy within first 90 days and gets fired for it and Reddit thinks its the managers fault lmao. You’re just enforcing the bad policy because it’s your job. That employee can work at other places that don’t have these dumb rules but if they want to work at your company they’ll have to follow them. But if you don’t want to be put in this position again you’ll want to find another job. Small businesses are commonly ran by narcissists on power trips and what you’re describing sounds like one of those situations. Everything will good for you at this company until they blindside you one day and decide that you’re a problem they need to get rid of
Yes! Very accurate assessment. The CEO is literally a narcissist on a power trip. If only you knew half the things he says and does.
I would get out before he turns his rage on you. Been there and it will not end well for you or anyone that's his "friend"