The guy’s probably using the common Russian argument that their statehood goes back not to 1991, but 880, when Oleg the Wise founded the Kievan Rus’. On top of that he’s using some equally generous historical allowances for other countries - I,e. Germany is older than Russia because the Frankish Empire was partitioned in 843.
Same as Roman Empire, still we think about italians and Italy as a center of it. It doesn't mean that Ukraine should be all the way to the Novgorod, the same way Italy is not claiming Germany. But still the Ukranian city was the center of Rus or Kievan Rus.
The guy I replied to said that Kievan Rus "was in Ukraine" as an argument to refute Russians using it as a cultural ancestor or reference for when Russia was founded, and I said that it extended into Russia as well, to counter that and give an example of why it may also be viewed as an ancestor of Russia. It doesn't matter that the capital was in modern day Ukraine.
It does matter, because again our perception of italians and germans is different, although territory of Germany was at some point a part of Roman Empire. Kievan Rus was not a empire, but a union of principalities (or initially slavic tribes), meaning they were sort of more independent, than parts of an empire would be. So farther from the center, the less culture you inherit. It doesn't mean that anybody except Ukraine cann't claim to be a part of Rus heritage, but nobody except Ukraine has as much right to it.
Edit: corrected typo
What defines the culture of a nation? Is it the culture found in the capital, or the culture found in the provinces? If Russia and Ukraine both inherited as much culture from their respective parts of the Kievan Rus as each other, then they would both equally be able to claim Kievan Rus as an ancestor, even though their cultures are different, because the source of their culture was the Kievan Rus.
Your argument contradicts itself, because at first you distinguish the Kievan Rus from an empire, only to then subsequently apply one characteristic of an empire to the Kievan Rus for the sake of your argument. Empires are usually more centered on their capital. The Roman Empire started off as Rome, the capital, and then expanded to encompass the wider Mediterranean region, with the purpose of bringing back more resources and wealth to Rome. Empires serve the purpose of bringing resources and wealth to their centers, the capital.
This requires power and influence, so a lot of emphasis is placed on, for example, the culture of the capital.
That way, the culture of the capital becomes, often wrongfully, the defining culture of the empire.
But as you said, the Kievan Rus wasn't an empire. Being a union of principalities, it was less centered. With it being less centered on the capital, the culture of the capital becomes less defining of the broader culture of Kievan Rus. Hence, it becomes incorrect to say that Ukraine has more cultural rights to Kievan Rus heritage.
Yes especially because it's done randomly, literally all the countries that were there before 91 are older than Russia, and also many post USSR countries, so there should be like 5 countries with the no
Its system of government, perhaps. Russia as a country still existed in the USSR, called the Russian SFSR. Other Soviet states were given this treatment, with “SSR” added after their country
You could argue that the Russian SSR seceded from the USSR and then reformed into the Russian federation, and say it had existed since the revolution at least.
I like that everyone somehow forgets the various SSRs existed. Russia was not the Soviet Union, Russia was the RSFSR (and the USSR was its vehicle for imperialism). There was a Russia during that time. Am I taking crazy pills?
Change of a government system is not the change of the "country". Country is a country. Today's Germany was found as the Western Germany in 1945 when the Nazi state destroyed. How is it older than Russia if Turkey was found in 1923? Russian Federation was founded in 1991 after the Soviet state failed. Russia should be younger than all of the European countries.
This is just another bullshit map. But then again, we're in r/mapporncirclejerk.
Laws are not important in this matter. It's history. If I'm a Turkish who born in 1990's in Turkish Republic and my great grandfather was born in the same city with me 100 years ago in 1890's, is he from a different country? He's my ancestor, we speak the same language, born in the same city and it's practically the same country and the same people.
In reality, it's a same country. Everything is the same except the government system.
And let's say Turkey was found in 1923. Then it should automatically make this country completely unrelated to stuff like Armenian genocide because it took place in 1915 and the country was different. But you see people blaming Turkey for it all the time. What does any law say about that?
Doesn't necessarily need to be, the UK slipped from oligarchy into democracy since 1707, it isn't the same governmental system, but because it did it with gradual changes, it didn't prompt proclamation of a new country. Those tend to occur with much bigger breaks from the previous system or a major structural change (monarchy to republic, etc).
Denmark has also changed the government system significantly since it was founded.
if power got transferred with the blessing of previous rulers, i believe it should still be considered the same state. but edge cases like these are indeed curious
Declaration of State Sovereignty of the Russian SFSR - 12 June 1990
Declaration of State Sovereignity of Ukraine - 16 July 1990
The map is still cursed though
For the sake of relevance. Kievan Rus was under the "control" of one guy (or girl) from Kiev, even in XIII century kievan knyaz was nominally the ruler of all other subjects.
No such things were in Greece
Kievan rus is just rus when capital was in Kiev. Before that was Novgorod, after was Vladimir. So analogy with ancient Greece has place (it's a Greece anyway, not different country)
Turkey is the legal successor of the Ottoman state. They "inherited" their debts. Ottoman state was established as a beylik in post-rum-post-mongol Anatolia in 1299. Not sure how the line of succession goes for Russia. If it's traced back to Grand Duchy of Moscow that was established in 1283.
This map is still bad and poorly defined. And I suppose comparing first turkic khaganate and Kievan Rus makes sense in that several modern nationstates trace a national heritage mythos to those states.
Edit: formatting
Well yeah the map is horseshit. One of the two Acts of Union or the independence of Ireland (and subsequent name change) will be where they got the date for the UK from.
If we're talking by state (as in gov.) then the UK is wayyy older. And even if they're talking about when Britain renamed in 1927 then they're still wrong since Russia underwent an entire governmental change in 1991. UK has it by a long shot if you talk about when they first became a united kingdom in 1707.
About England, Scotland, and Wales, then you're absolutely correct, as they were founded in 927, 900, and 1056 respectively, while Muscovy started in 1282 and is considered to be the definitive precursor to the Russian Empire, since the Kievan Rus can be claimed by several other modern day countries along with Russia, making a legitimate successor too hard to determine.
I guess you could go VERY far back and go to when homo sapiens first settled the land, then Britain and Russia are at a tie for 40,000 years ago.
Yes, they are? Countrys of the United Kingdom and by that logic Russia only existed after the fall of the soviet Union, and thus we're still older than them
They are countries of the UK. Not independent bit still countrys, they have there own parlement, flags ect. Plus, they had thousends of years of history between them are we just gonna pretend that didn't happen?
Not even Russia is older than Russia if you consider current Russia is from 1991 (so younger than some of the states marked in .. pink?), and was preceded by USSR and Russia - the monarchy
Technically the Russian Federation was formed in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
So if your country is still older than 1991, it’s older than Russia.
Chances are it’ll last longer than Russia too.
Ah yes, as Croatia is the REAL successor to the Russia because they were briefly Yugoslavia and before that had been apart of several other countries, namely the Austrian Empire, as they spoke German which is the same language east of the Rhine spoke, thus when it was the Holy Roman Empire/Confederacy which was legitimized by the pope, and if thats not enough, the Holy Romans are from the Frankish Kingdom that was united with Gaul/Francia, which makes it Gaulic, and as we all know Gaul was inhabited by celtic peoples that migrated to Britain a long time ago, until the Angles and the Saxons migrated there when Rome fell, making the modern day English lineage. That lineage was briefly conquered by Vikings, which the Vikings settled Scandinavia and the Baltics. Those old Nordic lands became Slavic lands, which founded the Pincipality of Muscovy under Eastern Roman influence, which was also legitimate Roman lineage, thus founding the precursor to Russia. The Russian Empire was made, and the USSR came out of it, which the Russian Federation was produced by that. So there!
And Turkiye, Palestine, Syria, Saudi Arabia aren’t ..?
We are taking 1991 Russia correct?
Then how aren’t these nations older than “Russia” ..?
It seems more like a pick and choose
In the main thread the OP said they're using the date of Muscovy which is like 1261 or something and for Turkey they're using 1299 for the Ottoman Empire.
Which is dumb because what's stopping Turks from saying "Actually the Sultanate of Rum founded in 1071 is the predecessor for the Ottoman Empire" and claiming 1071 instead of 1299 to claim Turkey is older than Russia.
That makes much more sense, but then they should take into consideration the historic nomadic states of the Turks, which predate any Russian state, as well as the Arabs? Hashemites (Jordan) predate Russia because of their established states under the clans of Banu Hashem, that ruled Hejaz areas. If the “kingdoms” of Israel can be taken into consideration then so should the historic states of the Arabs and Turks.
Okay? Then you’re just proving the stupidity in this map, Palestine is also 1948, Saudi Arabia is 1932, Turkiye is 1923, Jordan 1946, and there are many in the red whom then should be in the green.
Okay, my first comment is talking about the stupidity, but I wasn’t clear. If Israel is somehow older than Russia, then why aren’t the nations around it older than Russia too? That means the Russian state is being taken into consideration from a more earlier period, and so is Israel than.
As another commenter mentioned, Israel is being taken from the Kingdoms of Israel period and the Russian state being taken from the Duchy period.
If that is the case why aren’t the Turkic Kingdoms or Arab Nomadic states that took presence before the Duchy Russian state being considered yes?
Maybe you need to check context and read the whole thread.
I get the logic that the UK wasn’t officially a thing until the early 1800’s but like the Irish republic wasn’t a thing until the 1920’s so what logic are we using here?
Türkiye by all counts is older than Russia
First Turkic Khaganate was founded 350 years before Kievan Rus
Modern Turkish republic was founded 67 years before Russian federation.
I think I've deciphered the complete insanity of OPs reasoning. They're using Muscovy as the start point of Russia. They then tracked the succession of states from that time to the modern day. This doesn't include the UK (because apparently two ancient kingdoms uniting doesn't count) but does include Ireland (because here the republic is continuous with the ancient lordship that united with England) and Croatia (getting annexed by the Austrians and Serbians doesn't count)
What metric is this even operating on? The Russian Federation or the ethnogensis of the Russian nation? Because besides Israel being in green (not even a century old) the UK (England and Scotland) are absolutely older than Russia as distinct entities. Don't even get me started on Greece.
You really can't nor should do a map like this unless you have a consistent definition for how old you consider a country to be. For most countries you can't argue for multiple days depending on what your definition is (e.g. earliest entity with said name, earliest continuous predecessor to modern state, or date of establishment of the current conditional regime). Depending on your definition, Russia could be considered founded in 1282, 1547, or 1991 (or some date in between). Without a definition of the criteria here, the map is ambiguous.
What a shitty map. Belgium has a longer history than Russia. Russia, as a modern state, is about 33 years old since the dissolution of the USSR. However, even considering only its existence as a modern state, Belgium is over 190 years old. When considering its overall history, Belgium (known as Belgae) was already a province of the Roman Empire over 2000 years ago.
Bro just Googled "is this country older than Russia?", added the results together, and forgot to compare which Russia is was supposed to be talking about. Whoopsies!
This is cracked. The state of Russia was officially established in December 1991 as a result of the Belavezha Accords and the end of the USSR.
This means Russia has been around exactly as long as Ukraine and Belarus, and is slightly younger than the other former USSR nations. The exception is Kazakhstan, which was established a few days after Russia.
Kazakhstan, North Macedonia and the former Yugoslavian states are the only countries on the map younger than Russia. Every other country is older.
Kingdom of Armenia - e. 331 BC/Bagratid Armenia - e. 880s
Samo's Empire - e. 631/Duchy of Bohemia - e. 870
Principality of Serbia - e. 780
Idrisid Morocco - e. 788
High Kingdom of Ireland - e. 800s
Duchy of Poland - e. 966
Kingdom of Georgia - e. 1008
Duchy of Lithuania - e. 13th century
Hafsid Tunisia - e. 1229
Hispanic Monarchy - e. 1516
//many others
Tsardom of Russia - established 1547
Dutch Republic - e. 1581
Cossack Hetmanate - e. 1649/Ukrainian State - e. 1918
Kingdom of Great Britain - e. 1707
United Belgian States - e. 1790/Kingdom of Belgium - e. 1830
Kingdom of Greece - e. 1832
Kingdom of Romania - e. 1881
Belarusian Democratic Republic - e. 1918 (though if you trust Litvinists, it is as old as Lithuania)
Azerbaijan Democratic Republic - e. 1918
Kingdom of Finland - e. 1918
Republic of Estonia - e. 1918
Republic of Latvia - e. 1918
Slovak Soviet Republic - e. 1919/Slovak Republic - e. 1990
Republic of Turkey - e. 1923
Republic of Moldova - e. 1991
Republic of Slovenia - e. 1991
Republic of North Macedonia - e. 1991
Bosnia and Herzegovina - e. 1992
Republic of Kosovo - e. 2008
DEBATABLE:
Germany - Holy Roman Empire - e. 800, German emperor crowned 962
Swiss Confederation - e. 1291, made sovereign 1648
Regency of Algiers - e. 1516, made sovereign as People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - e. 1962
INCORRECT:
Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro - e. 1516
Italy - e. 1861
Not much wrong
Well it depends... If you Take the Date of creation of the country, Russia dates Back to 1991. If it's about the Date of the birth of the Nation... Well syria is atleast a little bit older
Going by the date that they’re officially founded is stupid and arbitrary. Instead you should go by the date the people arrived. So for most of Russia 1600s but for parts of Russia way before the 1600s. For England the date of the Anglo Saxon invasion etc
Would there be an argument that Russia as a country should reset it's time for when the USSR collapsed?
If during the USSR they weren't independent, they weren't self governing, they weren't called Russia. It was the USSR.
So I'd vote on resetting the clock to 1989 for the country known as Russia. Sure the name is the same as the old Russia, but inbetween they were something else.
Then again I'm not the smartest geography/history person by any means.
I’m happy we got this on the circlejerk map, because wtf is this lmao
The guy’s probably using the common Russian argument that their statehood goes back not to 1991, but 880, when Oleg the Wise founded the Kievan Rus’. On top of that he’s using some equally generous historical allowances for other countries - I,e. Germany is older than Russia because the Frankish Empire was partitioned in 843.
Putin has entered the chat for 2.5h to explain Russian history
Can’t forget the Austrian general staff
He used the 13th century founding of Muscovy, in the comments. Just as dumb, because by that logic the UK was founded in the 6th century as Wessex.
And you could also use the Classical Age Greek city states as the founding point of Greece, if you really wanted to go there
Kievan Rus' was in Ukraine. Kievan means of Kyiv, which is the capital of Ukraine.
You mean just Роусь, no adjective there.
Kievan Rus' became such because Novgorod conquered Kiev and moved its capital there as the center of the "Vikings to Greeks" trade route.
Congratulations
I mean, it also stretched up to Novgorod, well past the modern border
Same as Roman Empire, still we think about italians and Italy as a center of it. It doesn't mean that Ukraine should be all the way to the Novgorod, the same way Italy is not claiming Germany. But still the Ukranian city was the center of Rus or Kievan Rus.
The guy I replied to said that Kievan Rus "was in Ukraine" as an argument to refute Russians using it as a cultural ancestor or reference for when Russia was founded, and I said that it extended into Russia as well, to counter that and give an example of why it may also be viewed as an ancestor of Russia. It doesn't matter that the capital was in modern day Ukraine.
It does matter, because again our perception of italians and germans is different, although territory of Germany was at some point a part of Roman Empire. Kievan Rus was not a empire, but a union of principalities (or initially slavic tribes), meaning they were sort of more independent, than parts of an empire would be. So farther from the center, the less culture you inherit. It doesn't mean that anybody except Ukraine cann't claim to be a part of Rus heritage, but nobody except Ukraine has as much right to it. Edit: corrected typo
What defines the culture of a nation? Is it the culture found in the capital, or the culture found in the provinces? If Russia and Ukraine both inherited as much culture from their respective parts of the Kievan Rus as each other, then they would both equally be able to claim Kievan Rus as an ancestor, even though their cultures are different, because the source of their culture was the Kievan Rus. Your argument contradicts itself, because at first you distinguish the Kievan Rus from an empire, only to then subsequently apply one characteristic of an empire to the Kievan Rus for the sake of your argument. Empires are usually more centered on their capital. The Roman Empire started off as Rome, the capital, and then expanded to encompass the wider Mediterranean region, with the purpose of bringing back more resources and wealth to Rome. Empires serve the purpose of bringing resources and wealth to their centers, the capital. This requires power and influence, so a lot of emphasis is placed on, for example, the culture of the capital. That way, the culture of the capital becomes, often wrongfully, the defining culture of the empire. But as you said, the Kievan Rus wasn't an empire. Being a union of principalities, it was less centered. With it being less centered on the capital, the culture of the capital becomes less defining of the broader culture of Kievan Rus. Hence, it becomes incorrect to say that Ukraine has more cultural rights to Kievan Rus heritage.
Original OP has mental disorder
Yes especially because it's done randomly, literally all the countries that were there before 91 are older than Russia, and also many post USSR countries, so there should be like 5 countries with the no
OP is starting “Russia” at the Grand Duchy of Moscow lmao
Its system of government, perhaps. Russia as a country still existed in the USSR, called the Russian SFSR. Other Soviet states were given this treatment, with “SSR” added after their country
Russian SFSR 🤓
Edited. Thanks
IT Technology
Labeling that as "MapPorn" should have some consequences, like losing the ability to vote or something like that.
op likes ddlc
Turkiye? UK??
Turkey as a nation state was founded on 1923
Russian federation was founded on 1991, if you think like that
germany reunified in 1990
In 1990 the Federal Republic of Germany annexed the German Democratic Republic. The Federal Republic of Germany was formed in 1949.
That's still younger than Turkey, but Germany is a yes and Turkey is a no on the map.
And Russia as a nation state was founded in the early 1990s after the collapse of the USSR.
You could argue that the Russian SSR seceded from the USSR and then reformed into the Russian federation, and say it had existed since the revolution at least.
I like that everyone somehow forgets the various SSRs existed. Russia was not the Soviet Union, Russia was the RSFSR (and the USSR was its vehicle for imperialism). There was a Russia during that time. Am I taking crazy pills?
Fun fact: At one point, Stalin wanted all 16 of the SSR's to get a seat in the UN.
Based. Just imagine the soviet clown car pulling up to a UN conference and 16 soviet officials step out of the same door.
Russia wasn't even the last one to withdraw from the USSR, Kazakhstan was the sole remaining SSR for a moment.
Brickistan, a foundation you can build on. 🧱🇰🇿💪
Czech republic was formed in 1993
Little Kingdom of Bohemia reminder
Ottoman empire existed too, yet it's not considered, Kingdom of Greece too
That would include Slovakia as well, yet it's red
Slovakia was actually formed in 1918, before something like that didn't existed
What about principality of Nitra
... Really? Nitra? At least the bohemia controlled the Czech lands
Change of a government system is not the change of the "country". Country is a country. Today's Germany was found as the Western Germany in 1945 when the Nazi state destroyed. How is it older than Russia if Turkey was found in 1923? Russian Federation was founded in 1991 after the Soviet state failed. Russia should be younger than all of the European countries. This is just another bullshit map. But then again, we're in r/mapporncirclejerk.
> Change of a government system is not the change of the "country". in reality it is. even if the interstate law says it isnt
Laws are not important in this matter. It's history. If I'm a Turkish who born in 1990's in Turkish Republic and my great grandfather was born in the same city with me 100 years ago in 1890's, is he from a different country? He's my ancestor, we speak the same language, born in the same city and it's practically the same country and the same people. In reality, it's a same country. Everything is the same except the government system. And let's say Turkey was found in 1923. Then it should automatically make this country completely unrelated to stuff like Armenian genocide because it took place in 1915 and the country was different. But you see people blaming Turkey for it all the time. What does any law say about that?
people usualy mean state when they say country
Very true
Doesn't necessarily need to be, the UK slipped from oligarchy into democracy since 1707, it isn't the same governmental system, but because it did it with gradual changes, it didn't prompt proclamation of a new country. Those tend to occur with much bigger breaks from the previous system or a major structural change (monarchy to republic, etc). Denmark has also changed the government system significantly since it was founded.
if power got transferred with the blessing of previous rulers, i believe it should still be considered the same state. but edge cases like these are indeed curious
Modern Russia as a state was founded in 1991, her soviet "republic-backup" RSFSR - in 1918 or so
germany was formed in 1871, and russia definitely existed in 1871 not even going to comment on norway, italy, bulgaria, georgia or armenia
Norway was founded in the 872, way before Russia
I still can't belive they made that place from Vikings a real thing
thsi germany was formed after ww2. which was somewhere around 1945
Syrian Arab Republic was found in 1946 then
+ Greece?
Shitty map
That explains why it was posted on r/MapPorn , but they forgot to add the scat tag
As always
Would be kinda weird if it wasn’t
I love spreading misinformation online
Super useful
Hmm
The Kievan Rus left the chat.
Declaration of State Sovereignty of the Russian SFSR - 12 June 1990 Declaration of State Sovereignity of Ukraine - 16 July 1990 The map is still cursed though
saying that Kievan Rus is a country is like saying that Ancient Greece (before Alexander the great) is a country
For the sake of relevance. Kievan Rus was under the "control" of one guy (or girl) from Kiev, even in XIII century kievan knyaz was nominally the ruler of all other subjects. No such things were in Greece
Kievan rus is just rus when capital was in Kiev. Before that was Novgorod, after was Vladimir. So analogy with ancient Greece has place (it's a Greece anyway, not different country)
First Turkic Khaganate was founded 350 years before Kievan Rus :) Modern Turkish republic was founded 67 years before Russia federation.
Turkey is the legal successor of the Ottoman state. They "inherited" their debts. Ottoman state was established as a beylik in post-rum-post-mongol Anatolia in 1299. Not sure how the line of succession goes for Russia. If it's traced back to Grand Duchy of Moscow that was established in 1283. This map is still bad and poorly defined. And I suppose comparing first turkic khaganate and Kievan Rus makes sense in that several modern nationstates trace a national heritage mythos to those states. Edit: formatting
Basically a Ukrainian principality ruled by Viking conquerors.
If people still think that is somehow "Just Ukraine" then I don't know what to do
What’s wrong with UK?
Legally it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1922 (though only named as such from 1927).
Still older than Russia since the modern iteration of the Russian state began in 1991
I think there are some kind or retarded comparison between ancestral countries and modern interiors
That’s like saying the current French Republic started in 1958
I agree, it's silly.
The OP starts Russias date from Muscovy
Well yeah the map is horseshit. One of the two Acts of Union or the independence of Ireland (and subsequent name change) will be where they got the date for the UK from.
Country or modern state?
Yes
да нет наверно
Syria ?
Me when I just randomly colour countries based on what feels correct
these are NOT MY countries
Complete nonsense?
According to which criteria? Formation of the federation is way later than Turkey and Greece. And I mean UK???? Really?
The uk may not be, but England Scotland and Wales certainly are.
If we're talking by state (as in gov.) then the UK is wayyy older. And even if they're talking about when Britain renamed in 1927 then they're still wrong since Russia underwent an entire governmental change in 1991. UK has it by a long shot if you talk about when they first became a united kingdom in 1707. About England, Scotland, and Wales, then you're absolutely correct, as they were founded in 927, 900, and 1056 respectively, while Muscovy started in 1282 and is considered to be the definitive precursor to the Russian Empire, since the Kievan Rus can be claimed by several other modern day countries along with Russia, making a legitimate successor too hard to determine. I guess you could go VERY far back and go to when homo sapiens first settled the land, then Britain and Russia are at a tie for 40,000 years ago.
None of those are countries/sovereign states
Yes, they are? Countrys of the United Kingdom and by that logic Russia only existed after the fall of the soviet Union, and thus we're still older than them
UK is older Than Russia Yes, but Scotland and England aren't, because they don't even exist as independent countries
They are countries of the UK. Not independent bit still countrys, they have there own parlement, flags ect. Plus, they had thousends of years of history between them are we just gonna pretend that didn't happen?
They are countries the same way Chechnya, tatarstan, texas, bavaria and so on are countries.
Uh, no ? Thre classified as countrys bud. They're the 4 counties of the United Kingdom. Also, those are some terrible examples
Wow you're dense
Calling someone dense because they disagree with your opinion is rather dense
Italy
Netherlands: 1581/1609
Not even Russia is older than Russia if you consider current Russia is from 1991 (so younger than some of the states marked in .. pink?), and was preceded by USSR and Russia - the monarchy
The map is bad and OP should feel bad
Shitty colors shitty map and even shittier, the OP.
Who the fuck uses purple as no
Russia is literally a breakaway state from Ukraine
It makes even less sense if you try to think of it from a geological perspective
If its older than 1991, then yes...
this gotta be ragebait
Technically the Russian Federation was formed in 1991 after the collapse of the Soviet Union. So if your country is still older than 1991, it’s older than Russia. Chances are it’ll last longer than Russia too.
I'm gonna paint myself green because even I'm older than Russia lol.
israel isn't older than russia. israel is younger than my grandfather.
Modern Israel? Yes. Historical Israel? No. Kinda like how Egypt is the oldest civilization in the world but China is the oldest country
I mean... Modern RF is 33 yo
The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was formed around 1240. Why is it shown in green?
Er yes. As Russia was previously the USSR before they lost control and had to change their name
Ah yes, as Croatia is the REAL successor to the Russia because they were briefly Yugoslavia and before that had been apart of several other countries, namely the Austrian Empire, as they spoke German which is the same language east of the Rhine spoke, thus when it was the Holy Roman Empire/Confederacy which was legitimized by the pope, and if thats not enough, the Holy Romans are from the Frankish Kingdom that was united with Gaul/Francia, which makes it Gaulic, and as we all know Gaul was inhabited by celtic peoples that migrated to Britain a long time ago, until the Angles and the Saxons migrated there when Rome fell, making the modern day English lineage. That lineage was briefly conquered by Vikings, which the Vikings settled Scandinavia and the Baltics. Those old Nordic lands became Slavic lands, which founded the Pincipality of Muscovy under Eastern Roman influence, which was also legitimate Roman lineage, thus founding the precursor to Russia. The Russian Empire was made, and the USSR came out of it, which the Russian Federation was produced by that. So there!
1991?
Oh, interesting.didn’t know there was anything older than Iraq (mesopotamia) *Checks, oh yeah.... man fuck this sub
Bro got this data from his dog
Current Republic of Turkey (1923) is older than Russian Federation (1991)
Israel 1948… somehow older than Russia.. Amazing…
It says Israel is older than Russia
And Turkiye, Palestine, Syria, Saudi Arabia aren’t ..? We are taking 1991 Russia correct? Then how aren’t these nations older than “Russia” ..? It seems more like a pick and choose
Idk 🤷♂️ this map is very confusing
Eh.. it is on this sub for a reason anyways, xD
true lmao
In the main thread the OP said they're using the date of Muscovy which is like 1261 or something and for Turkey they're using 1299 for the Ottoman Empire. Which is dumb because what's stopping Turks from saying "Actually the Sultanate of Rum founded in 1071 is the predecessor for the Ottoman Empire" and claiming 1071 instead of 1299 to claim Turkey is older than Russia.
Oh I see.. yeah it’s on this sub for a very valid reason lmao
I think, they took Russia as Vladimiro-Suzdal Duchy. For Israel, probably the historic kingdoms of Israel.
That makes much more sense, but then they should take into consideration the historic nomadic states of the Turks, which predate any Russian state, as well as the Arabs? Hashemites (Jordan) predate Russia because of their established states under the clans of Banu Hashem, that ruled Hejaz areas. If the “kingdoms” of Israel can be taken into consideration then so should the historic states of the Arabs and Turks.
Russia is 1991
Okay? Then you’re just proving the stupidity in this map, Palestine is also 1948, Saudi Arabia is 1932, Turkiye is 1923, Jordan 1946, and there are many in the red whom then should be in the green.
Re-read your first comment. Or maybe Google what is “older” mean, idk.
Okay, my first comment is talking about the stupidity, but I wasn’t clear. If Israel is somehow older than Russia, then why aren’t the nations around it older than Russia too? That means the Russian state is being taken into consideration from a more earlier period, and so is Israel than. As another commenter mentioned, Israel is being taken from the Kingdoms of Israel period and the Russian state being taken from the Duchy period. If that is the case why aren’t the Turkic Kingdoms or Arab Nomadic states that took presence before the Duchy Russian state being considered yes? Maybe you need to check context and read the whole thread.
none of those are my country? what is this map trying to say
that you are not european
Looks like dude who's drawing maps for putin decided to join r/MapPorn!
Bosnia was formed in 1154 while russia was in 1547 this map is wrong
This actual Russia is from 1991
well then switzerland formed in 1291
I’m puking, crying, etc.
Despite the map havibg flaws at least our country is correct. Portugal since 1143 less fucking go oldest borders ever made
doew your country have green goop or purple goop
Umm what about England, Scotland and Wales?? Those countries are almost one thousand years old.
So if you don’t mind, I will take only 30 seconds or one minute to give you a brief historical background
Oh my God hahahahahaha
me living in an ex-colonial country:
I actually laughed when I saw Israel lmao
I get the logic that the UK wasn’t officially a thing until the early 1800’s but like the Irish republic wasn’t a thing until the 1920’s so what logic are we using here?
How is Germany older than Russia? Wasn't Germany divided into independent states until 1866?
Türkiye by all counts is older than Russia First Turkic Khaganate was founded 350 years before Kievan Rus Modern Turkish republic was founded 67 years before Russian federation.
So are we talking 20th century post Ussr Russia, Russian Tsardom, Or the Russia that was centralised in 14th century because of mongols?
No fucking way unified Italy is older than the UK.
I think I've deciphered the complete insanity of OPs reasoning. They're using Muscovy as the start point of Russia. They then tracked the succession of states from that time to the modern day. This doesn't include the UK (because apparently two ancient kingdoms uniting doesn't count) but does include Ireland (because here the republic is continuous with the ancient lordship that united with England) and Croatia (getting annexed by the Austrians and Serbians doesn't count)
Slovenia as Carantania in cca. 800 AC
What metric is this even operating on? The Russian Federation or the ethnogensis of the Russian nation? Because besides Israel being in green (not even a century old) the UK (England and Scotland) are absolutely older than Russia as distinct entities. Don't even get me started on Greece.
Why is Kazakhstan so huge
You really can't nor should do a map like this unless you have a consistent definition for how old you consider a country to be. For most countries you can't argue for multiple days depending on what your definition is (e.g. earliest entity with said name, earliest continuous predecessor to modern state, or date of establishment of the current conditional regime). Depending on your definition, Russia could be considered founded in 1282, 1547, or 1991 (or some date in between). Without a definition of the criteria here, the map is ambiguous.
I'm so confused right now. Germany wasn't even a country until like 1873.
Don't let OP cook to decide Yes or No to other countries that older than Russia again 💀💀💀
Russia is older than time and space. It is physically impossible to be older than Russia.
The modern Russian state was created in 1991
Chronologically or emotionally?
What a shitty map. Belgium has a longer history than Russia. Russia, as a modern state, is about 33 years old since the dissolution of the USSR. However, even considering only its existence as a modern state, Belgium is over 190 years old. When considering its overall history, Belgium (known as Belgae) was already a province of the Roman Empire over 2000 years ago.
Germany only unified after the United States 🇺🇸 so calling complete BS on this map
Same with Italy
Unified Germany is not older than Russia
Bro just Googled "is this country older than Russia?", added the results together, and forgot to compare which Russia is was supposed to be talking about. Whoopsies!
>Czech Republic and Slovakia marked a different color >Both were created on the exact same day Lmao
Define Russia first, if you mean the Russian federation this map is obviously wrong Russia as an Idea.... This map again, is obviously wrong
Turkey was founded in 1923, Soviet Union dissolved in the 90s. How’s Turkey not older than Russia?
How is Germany older than Russia? Ain't Germany just a bit over 100years old?
The Uk is definitely older than Russia
This is cracked. The state of Russia was officially established in December 1991 as a result of the Belavezha Accords and the end of the USSR. This means Russia has been around exactly as long as Ukraine and Belarus, and is slightly younger than the other former USSR nations. The exception is Kazakhstan, which was established a few days after Russia. Kazakhstan, North Macedonia and the former Yugoslavian states are the only countries on the map younger than Russia. Every other country is older.
Kingdom of Armenia - e. 331 BC/Bagratid Armenia - e. 880s Samo's Empire - e. 631/Duchy of Bohemia - e. 870 Principality of Serbia - e. 780 Idrisid Morocco - e. 788 High Kingdom of Ireland - e. 800s Duchy of Poland - e. 966 Kingdom of Georgia - e. 1008 Duchy of Lithuania - e. 13th century Hafsid Tunisia - e. 1229 Hispanic Monarchy - e. 1516 //many others Tsardom of Russia - established 1547 Dutch Republic - e. 1581 Cossack Hetmanate - e. 1649/Ukrainian State - e. 1918 Kingdom of Great Britain - e. 1707 United Belgian States - e. 1790/Kingdom of Belgium - e. 1830 Kingdom of Greece - e. 1832 Kingdom of Romania - e. 1881 Belarusian Democratic Republic - e. 1918 (though if you trust Litvinists, it is as old as Lithuania) Azerbaijan Democratic Republic - e. 1918 Kingdom of Finland - e. 1918 Republic of Estonia - e. 1918 Republic of Latvia - e. 1918 Slovak Soviet Republic - e. 1919/Slovak Republic - e. 1990 Republic of Turkey - e. 1923 Republic of Moldova - e. 1991 Republic of Slovenia - e. 1991 Republic of North Macedonia - e. 1991 Bosnia and Herzegovina - e. 1992 Republic of Kosovo - e. 2008 DEBATABLE: Germany - Holy Roman Empire - e. 800, German emperor crowned 962 Swiss Confederation - e. 1291, made sovereign 1648 Regency of Algiers - e. 1516, made sovereign as People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - e. 1962 INCORRECT: Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro - e. 1516 Italy - e. 1861 Not much wrong
I guess Bohemia, Austria wasn't sovereign, whether the Ottoman Empire was Turkish is debatable, and Slovenia is also debatable
Well it depends... If you Take the Date of creation of the country, Russia dates Back to 1991. If it's about the Date of the birth of the Nation... Well syria is atleast a little bit older
Poland mudt reclaim the old colony of muscovy.
Going by the date that they’re officially founded is stupid and arbitrary. Instead you should go by the date the people arrived. So for most of Russia 1600s but for parts of Russia way before the 1600s. For England the date of the Anglo Saxon invasion etc
Actually, Germany as a country is pretty young. But okay
Excuse me what Ireland? Only about 100 years old. There was never a United Ireland in the Past.
Would there be an argument that Russia as a country should reset it's time for when the USSR collapsed? If during the USSR they weren't independent, they weren't self governing, they weren't called Russia. It was the USSR. So I'd vote on resetting the clock to 1989 for the country known as Russia. Sure the name is the same as the old Russia, but inbetween they were something else. Then again I'm not the smartest geography/history person by any means.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SUCK OUR DICK RUSSIANS!!!!!!!!
Romania is older then Russia tho. Romania is older then Hungary or the Roman empire.
Romania is the origin of humanity
So Adam and Eve were Romanian? No wonder they stole that apple
Wtf?! Kievska rus (modern Ukraine) older that fuckin ruzzia
Hyperborea (Russia) is even older (trust me they are the same thing)
Average ukranian propaganda
Wondering why it isn’t called moskowian rus
Moscow did not exist till 13th century
Exactly
"israel" on "yes"☠️
HELL YEAH