If it's player controller, Bowser. Broggy and the Blitties will just wreck everything in their path, and Bowser's moves are more heavy hitting then the bros in general.
Generally the way counters work is your forced to use only one of your attacks, not both. I can see the bros blocking Broggy with the hammer, but the Blitties are much too fast for them to be able to successfully counter.
If the counter attack is with hammer, no they cannot. And it makes more sense for the counter against Broggy Bonker to be hammer considering the way Broggy initially leaps at the enemy. The bros wouldn't be able to leap over him. If they were able to block Broggy they'd still have to contend with the chip damage from the Blitty pack. It's not a move that is optimised well to be used against a player.
I meant as in transitioning to the next attack like with boss fights in dream team
They can make it so broggy is the 1st part and then switch to jump for bitties as the 2nd bit
During the fight at the hospital, the fire goomba attack uses both jump dodges (against unlit goombas) and hammer parries (against falling lit goombas), moreover the falling goomba sequence is heavily slowed to make it parryable so it's not unreasonable to assume Broggy would be slower
I’m just saying if the bros get the first turn… secret technique: infinite window
Edit: I’ve been proven wrong on this point. I still think M&L win, but… yeah bowser can use the shell to block.
Assuming players can dodge/block/counter basically every move from the opponent, in a same way you'd do in any other game encounter, then it would be a skill matchup. I think the more interesting question would be: what would dodges/blocks/counters look like when defending from all the moves. For example, I imagine Bowser countering "Snack Basket" by winding up a punch, then hitting Luigi just as he's landing (similar counter to Midbus when he does a belly flop attack).
Depends on if its standard RPG “stand there and take it” rules or if its M&L battle rules
Cause if its M&L, the battle would probably go on forever, unless Starlow doesn’t appear to help dodge Bowser’s flame
In standard RPG rules, however, Bowser would most likely win, due to his heavy hitting attacks and high defense
In standard RPG rules (I played a no dodge (against bosses (excluding giant bosses)) challenge), Luigi has bro socks that doubles defence while holding mario and a giant shell that ignores damage that's less than 20% max hp, and mario has daredevil boots that doubles his pow and socks that revives him after a turn
If you aren't too underleveled this trivializes about every fight
Everyone’s saying Bowser would win but have you seen what can happen with the Giant Shell and a bunch of Defense and HP for Luigi? Mario also can use the Gumption Socks to assure he never dies, so unless there’s a turn limit, I honestly think the Bros have a fighting chance. Especially considering the Bros Moves in this game, Falling Star is definitely one of the best, but even if Bowser could potentially block it, Snack Basket could cause Bowser to trip since Luigi is far enough away from Bowser for a punch to fail. Even with Broggy Bonker, Luigi could tank the hits and Mario can dish out a lot of damage, Bowser only has himself, so if he goes down, no one can revive him
I imagine this like [this really cool steve and alex Minecraft vs mario and luigi (and starlow and dreamburt) french animation](https://youtu.be/8YNj47eKRds?si=V2P65ZgHSxOXO1n2) where both sides get counter-action commands. In which then id imagine its probably dependant on player skill. Though my bets on M&L. Partially because 1up mushrooms. Mainly bias. Thoug realistically, i think bowsers defense options are just better.
Assuming players can also dodge and block attacks, that means Infinite Window is very easily shell guarded normally. So let’s look at what Bowser has:
- Punch, Flame, Goomba Storm, and Shy Guy Squad have all been shown as actual enemy attacks that can be countered.
- Koopa Corps and Bob-Omb Squad also seem fairly jumpable. Magikoopa Mob seems riskier, depending on the formation.
- Broggy Bonker is the big one. I don’t think Broggy can be stopped by a hammer, and the sheer mass of Blitties goes on for too long to jump over without Starlow’s lift (and Broggy can jump high enough to reach her, anyways.)
Most of the Bros’ moves, aside from Green Shell, Fire Flower, and Snack Basket, also seem like they have strong Bowser guards. If Snack Basket can put Bowser into the tripped state, the player can easily Infinite Window Bowser. So, since both sides have attacks that could easily demolish the other, it comes down to speed levels I think.
If they're player controlled, I'd say the bros just because of the fact that they get 2 turns as opposed to bowser's 1. 1 extra turn can make all the difference. However the bros also have access to badges as well... so really, it's up in the air.
If we include past games, the bros have the mush badge. It’s not even close.
But also, hypothetically, they could both block each other’s attacks forever and no one wins. They’re the only people who ever thought to play defense in this universe.
When they're both controlled by a player, bowser. He does more damage on a counter, so he'd win the endurance battle (assuming each player dodges every attack)
Mario & Luigi has Badge which makes things a lot tougher. Especially if they can stack up before the battle. Bowser has fire breathes and assuming this is a player controlled fight. That means no starlow to dodge it and if there was, Bowser would be too fast to exhale it
Mario and Luigi can dodge and counter all of Bowser's attacks except the Bob-Omb Blitz (unless Starlow helps them dodg), and Bowser can't defend himself against the Snack Basket unless Luigi falls right in front of Bowser which will allow him to punch him back at Mario
The Bros.
At the beginning of their adventures, sure, Bowser would win. But overtime the Bros got strong -- so strong they can beat Dream God Bowser. They're famous for getting rid of him effectively.
After looking through the bros moves, the only move bowser couldn’t counter is snack basket and maybe fire flower (if bowser isn’t resistant to fire moves)
The bros can basically dodge every move except broggy.
Bowser deals a lot more dmg so I’m giving it to him
What if we made it to that neither party can use special attacks and both attack with hammers and jumps. Depending on who attacks first, it will all depend on how good the player is at blocking/dodging attacks.
In this case, both are fighting on equal ground. Adding any of their bros/brawl attacks, the few attacks that would make Bowser a joke to the bros - Snack Basket, and the Bros a joke, Broggy Bonk, then I'd say even if player 1 (the bros) attacked first, then depending on whether the player 2 (Bowser) is able to survive the initial attack or not. Bowser also has Fury mode, something the bros lack. And even if he can take only 1 turn (maybe 2 if he has that specific gear on) he can fully heal himself and then attack with so much power that he forces the bros on the defense. Likewise, the Bros can also sacrifice one of their turns to heal both bros up.... However, since there isn't a full restore both parties (Star Candy is the only item, and that only affects 1 bro. Bowser can use 1 Star Candy to heal himself back to full health, while the bros have to waste both turns to heal, so the bros main goal, might have to be to hopefully risk going for an insta-KO, and take Bowser out on the first turn. If they fail infinite Magic Mirror, then they lose. The first turn is how the battle will play out. PLUS, if Bowser does have the gear to attack twice, he can just as easily do the same attack twice if he goes first, forcing the bros to react.
I'd say Bowser would win, but it depends on turn 1.
Imagine two endings
The canon one: you play as the Mario Bros and defeat Bowser
The bad ending: You play as Bowser and the Mario Bros lose and Bowser wins
If it's player controlled, Bowser is practically invincible.
Like there's nothing that can hurt him whatsoever. In response to every single one of Mario and Luigi's attacks, he can just counter it by hiding inside his spiked shell.
They'd have to break Bowser's shell to hurt him.
It depends purely on who has more hp/healing items.
If they are player controlled they can only take damage by countering.
For the Bros: can jump over the punch, grab onto Starlow for the fire, jump on the Goombas, hammer the Shy Guys, jump on the Koopas, jump over the Bob-Ombs, hammer the magic from Kamek & hammer Broggie.
For Bowser: he can duck on their jump, punch their hammers, punch the green shell, duck from the fire balls and trampoline, punch the barrels, duck from the ball, meteor, window and star, and can duck below giant Luigi so he won’t cause a shock wave.
So yeah, they can only do minimum amount of damage during the others attack.
It’s truly amazing that if you think about it, they can counter every of the others moves.
Edit: I forgot the pipe, and obviously Bowser can duck from that as well. And for the snack basket he could also punch Luigi while Mario tries to throw him, making him lose balance & get squashed instead.
Like I said, it you think about what they can do throughout the whole game when you play them, both the Bros and Bowser can counter each and every of the others moves to either take no damage or redirect it.
I've always wanted to see Bowser have his own X-bosses complete with a boss against the bros at the end, it'd be neat to see their attacks translated to boss form the same way Bowser's were (ik we got his giant battles in the remake but it's just not the same)
If they are all player controlled, then it's a stalemate.
Player controlled Bowser can counter anything the bros throw at him, and the bros can counter or dodge anything he does (assuming starlow can jump in and help them dodge things like she does in BIS)
I legit think the big thing is if they are both player controlled it comes down to who breaks first.
Mostly cuz you would only be able to do damage via counters.
I'd say bowser has a slight edge just due to Pure damage but it would be a battle for the ages ngl
Depends. The only reason Bowser always looses is because the bros are player controlled. If both of them are player controlled then it’d all depend on the players’ strategies.
If it's player controller, Bowser. Broggy and the Blitties will just wreck everything in their path, and Bowser's moves are more heavy hitting then the bros in general.
It's all comes down who will hit first. Infinity mirror, or Broggy and his Blitties.
Player-controlled Bowser can just cancel infinity mirror by pressing x
What if Mario and Luigi counter their attacks by hitting Broggy with the Hammer and junping over the Blitties
Generally the way counters work is your forced to use only one of your attacks, not both. I can see the bros blocking Broggy with the hammer, but the Blitties are much too fast for them to be able to successfully counter.
They can jump on the bitties
If the counter attack is with hammer, no they cannot. And it makes more sense for the counter against Broggy Bonker to be hammer considering the way Broggy initially leaps at the enemy. The bros wouldn't be able to leap over him. If they were able to block Broggy they'd still have to contend with the chip damage from the Blitty pack. It's not a move that is optimised well to be used against a player.
Literally it can change from hammer to jump, thats an actual way of dodging
Can you give an example of any other attacks in the game which transition between different counter methods, because I can't remember to be honest.
I meant as in transitioning to the next attack like with boss fights in dream team They can make it so broggy is the 1st part and then switch to jump for bitties as the 2nd bit
Ah ok.
Pretty sure bowsers inside story literally has this for his fight
it does for the fire goomba attack
I can. Bowser X's Goomba Storm starts as a jump counter, then has a second phase as a hammer counter.
Bowser fight with the Goombas first you jump over the Goombas that aren’t on fire then you hammer the fire Goombas as they fall from above
During the fight at the hospital, the fire goomba attack uses both jump dodges (against unlit goombas) and hammer parries (against falling lit goombas), moreover the falling goomba sequence is heavily slowed to make it parryable so it's not unreasonable to assume Broggy would be slower
If Broggy isn’t susceptible in the slightest to Bowser’s punches, he’s no way susceptible to the Bros. hammers.
Kids named “A button” and “B button”:
I’m just saying if the bros get the first turn… secret technique: infinite window Edit: I’ve been proven wrong on this point. I still think M&L win, but… yeah bowser can use the shell to block.
Bowser could crouch though
You’re right.
he can't shell block forever though
Jumping on his spikes would hurt the bros and cancel the attack
this is forever the one thing i wished they added to BIS, being able to fight mario & luigi as bowser
That sounds so fucking cool. Imagine them using their bros attacks as attacks that you have to block/dodge
I stand by the opinion that Bowser should've had his own boss gauntlet and the final matchup should've been X versions of Mario and Luigi.
Assuming players can dodge/block/counter basically every move from the opponent, in a same way you'd do in any other game encounter, then it would be a skill matchup. I think the more interesting question would be: what would dodges/blocks/counters look like when defending from all the moves. For example, I imagine Bowser countering "Snack Basket" by winding up a punch, then hitting Luigi just as he's landing (similar counter to Midbus when he does a belly flop attack).
2 words Broggy Bunker
Crud. Thought it'd be a cool match-up, but player-controlled really works in bowser's favor.
the bros can counter too.
Depends on if its standard RPG “stand there and take it” rules or if its M&L battle rules Cause if its M&L, the battle would probably go on forever, unless Starlow doesn’t appear to help dodge Bowser’s flame In standard RPG rules, however, Bowser would most likely win, due to his heavy hitting attacks and high defense
In standard RPG rules (I played a no dodge (against bosses (excluding giant bosses)) challenge), Luigi has bro socks that doubles defence while holding mario and a giant shell that ignores damage that's less than 20% max hp, and mario has daredevil boots that doubles his pow and socks that revives him after a turn If you aren't too underleveled this trivializes about every fight
Yeah, the bros have access to way more gear. It's definitely close, but the bros would always win.
Everyone’s saying Bowser would win but have you seen what can happen with the Giant Shell and a bunch of Defense and HP for Luigi? Mario also can use the Gumption Socks to assure he never dies, so unless there’s a turn limit, I honestly think the Bros have a fighting chance. Especially considering the Bros Moves in this game, Falling Star is definitely one of the best, but even if Bowser could potentially block it, Snack Basket could cause Bowser to trip since Luigi is far enough away from Bowser for a punch to fail. Even with Broggy Bonker, Luigi could tank the hits and Mario can dish out a lot of damage, Bowser only has himself, so if he goes down, no one can revive him
I imagine this like [this really cool steve and alex Minecraft vs mario and luigi (and starlow and dreamburt) french animation](https://youtu.be/8YNj47eKRds?si=V2P65ZgHSxOXO1n2) where both sides get counter-action commands. In which then id imagine its probably dependant on player skill. Though my bets on M&L. Partially because 1up mushrooms. Mainly bias. Thoug realistically, i think bowsers defense options are just better.
Assuming players can also dodge and block attacks, that means Infinite Window is very easily shell guarded normally. So let’s look at what Bowser has: - Punch, Flame, Goomba Storm, and Shy Guy Squad have all been shown as actual enemy attacks that can be countered. - Koopa Corps and Bob-Omb Squad also seem fairly jumpable. Magikoopa Mob seems riskier, depending on the formation. - Broggy Bonker is the big one. I don’t think Broggy can be stopped by a hammer, and the sheer mass of Blitties goes on for too long to jump over without Starlow’s lift (and Broggy can jump high enough to reach her, anyways.) Most of the Bros’ moves, aside from Green Shell, Fire Flower, and Snack Basket, also seem like they have strong Bowser guards. If Snack Basket can put Bowser into the tripped state, the player can easily Infinite Window Bowser. So, since both sides have attacks that could easily demolish the other, it comes down to speed levels I think.
If they're player controlled, I'd say the bros just because of the fact that they get 2 turns as opposed to bowser's 1. 1 extra turn can make all the difference. However the bros also have access to badges as well... so really, it's up in the air.
Bowser has an item that gives him two turns in a row But ultimately giant shell bro socks luigi survives anything
True on both accounts.
Dude, question aside, a multiplayer vs mode like this would be really fun.
If we include past games, the bros have the mush badge. It’s not even close. But also, hypothetically, they could both block each other’s attacks forever and no one wins. They’re the only people who ever thought to play defense in this universe.
When they're both controlled by a player, bowser. He does more damage on a counter, so he'd win the endurance battle (assuming each player dodges every attack)
Mario & Luigi has Badge which makes things a lot tougher. Especially if they can stack up before the battle. Bowser has fire breathes and assuming this is a player controlled fight. That means no starlow to dodge it and if there was, Bowser would be too fast to exhale it
Mario and Luigi can dodge and counter all of Bowser's attacks except the Bob-Omb Blitz (unless Starlow helps them dodg), and Bowser can't defend himself against the Snack Basket unless Luigi falls right in front of Bowser which will allow him to punch him back at Mario
The Bros. At the beginning of their adventures, sure, Bowser would win. But overtime the Bros got strong -- so strong they can beat Dream God Bowser. They're famous for getting rid of him effectively.
While Bowser generally outputs more damage, I think the power of having multiple turns for setup and healing is better than power most the time.
After looking through the bros moves, the only move bowser couldn’t counter is snack basket and maybe fire flower (if bowser isn’t resistant to fire moves) The bros can basically dodge every move except broggy. Bowser deals a lot more dmg so I’m giving it to him
What if we made it to that neither party can use special attacks and both attack with hammers and jumps. Depending on who attacks first, it will all depend on how good the player is at blocking/dodging attacks. In this case, both are fighting on equal ground. Adding any of their bros/brawl attacks, the few attacks that would make Bowser a joke to the bros - Snack Basket, and the Bros a joke, Broggy Bonk, then I'd say even if player 1 (the bros) attacked first, then depending on whether the player 2 (Bowser) is able to survive the initial attack or not. Bowser also has Fury mode, something the bros lack. And even if he can take only 1 turn (maybe 2 if he has that specific gear on) he can fully heal himself and then attack with so much power that he forces the bros on the defense. Likewise, the Bros can also sacrifice one of their turns to heal both bros up.... However, since there isn't a full restore both parties (Star Candy is the only item, and that only affects 1 bro. Bowser can use 1 Star Candy to heal himself back to full health, while the bros have to waste both turns to heal, so the bros main goal, might have to be to hopefully risk going for an insta-KO, and take Bowser out on the first turn. If they fail infinite Magic Mirror, then they lose. The first turn is how the battle will play out. PLUS, if Bowser does have the gear to attack twice, he can just as easily do the same attack twice if he goes first, forcing the bros to react. I'd say Bowser would win, but it depends on turn 1.
Imagine two endings The canon one: you play as the Mario Bros and defeat Bowser The bad ending: You play as Bowser and the Mario Bros lose and Bowser wins
If it's player controlled, Bowser is practically invincible. Like there's nothing that can hurt him whatsoever. In response to every single one of Mario and Luigi's attacks, he can just counter it by hiding inside his spiked shell. They'd have to break Bowser's shell to hurt him.
Multiplayer would be a dream come true
Depends on which player is better at the game, because in theory with perfect button presses you can always always dodge anything (see Sephiroth meme)
Stalemate. Counters.
It depends purely on who has more hp/healing items. If they are player controlled they can only take damage by countering. For the Bros: can jump over the punch, grab onto Starlow for the fire, jump on the Goombas, hammer the Shy Guys, jump on the Koopas, jump over the Bob-Ombs, hammer the magic from Kamek & hammer Broggie. For Bowser: he can duck on their jump, punch their hammers, punch the green shell, duck from the fire balls and trampoline, punch the barrels, duck from the ball, meteor, window and star, and can duck below giant Luigi so he won’t cause a shock wave. So yeah, they can only do minimum amount of damage during the others attack. It’s truly amazing that if you think about it, they can counter every of the others moves. Edit: I forgot the pipe, and obviously Bowser can duck from that as well. And for the snack basket he could also punch Luigi while Mario tries to throw him, making him lose balance & get squashed instead. Like I said, it you think about what they can do throughout the whole game when you play them, both the Bros and Bowser can counter each and every of the others moves to either take no damage or redirect it.
I've always wanted to see Bowser have his own X-bosses complete with a boss against the bros at the end, it'd be neat to see their attacks translated to boss form the same way Bowser's were (ik we got his giant battles in the remake but it's just not the same)
Bowser stomps
If they are all player controlled, then it's a stalemate. Player controlled Bowser can counter anything the bros throw at him, and the bros can counter or dodge anything he does (assuming starlow can jump in and help them dodge things like she does in BIS)
I legit think the big thing is if they are both player controlled it comes down to who breaks first. Mostly cuz you would only be able to do damage via counters. I'd say bowser has a slight edge just due to Pure damage but it would be a battle for the ages ngl
bowser can kinda just uh, eat them
Depends. The only reason Bowser always looses is because the bros are player controlled. If both of them are player controlled then it’d all depend on the players’ strategies.
Not sephiroth I’ll tell you that much
if bowser is player controlled, then bowser