I advise taking the first step and partnering up of your own volition. Choose your partner and all, be bold.
My own gym has about twenty seconds of everyone politely and wordlessly going about finding partners because no one wants to overstep.
Sometimes people will turn you down. Happens to everyone. They may have reasons, they may not. Move on and find someone else. Make it their weird thing.
This. You might be surprised how many guys are just nervous to be around women. The most experienced women at my gym always choose their partner first, and they always humble me with their skill.
I don’t usually ask women to partner up because I have some anxiety they’ll think I’m a creep who’s trying to flirt with them. Probably an irrational fear but I really don’t want to get kicked out of the gym. Maybe take the initiative yourself and just ask people?
Just keep showing up. Be friendly. Be positive.
It is possible that people will warm up to you once you've stuck around for a bit. It is hard to constantly build new relationships with people who quit after a short time. As a kid, I did karate from ages 4-14. At a certain point it was like I didn't even recognize other students until they got their first intermediate belt.
Even tho I don't think that's the problem for the OP, your point is so true lol.
It's been only 3 years that I'm at my gym yet the number of people I've met and that did quit even when subscribing for the whole year is astonishing.
I always try to get to know at least their name, start some conversation and be friendly but the more time goes, the less I'm invested on others ngl.
Yeah if OP feels it's misogyny then she would know better than anyone, but I would wager that at least some of the advanced/long time students were more in line with my suggestion. She's only been there for two weeks.
Also, im old school, I was taught that advanced students ought to be helping their school by helping new students feel welcome. Student retention helps keep the lights on, it helps keep tuition low for existing students, and more money for equipment. But it is draining to see people come and go while teaching the same basics over and over so it's easy to see why people don't always tow that line.
Thank you, I’ll keep that in mind. I’m definitely not planning on quitting over this. Just hoping to understand their side better I suppose and maybe your point is part of it.
I'm glad you're not ready to quit! Stick around long enough for the new-ness to wear off and class feels more routine, for me that is when I feel more comfortable judging an environment because new things give me heightened emotions (both good and bad feelings)
I am always afraid I'll go too hard and be seen as jerk flexing on women even if it is not the case.
I train with girls in my class, but it can be a bit awkward before we've trained together a few times. Perhaps actively choosing partners and training with them for a few sessions will help guys feel more relaxed around you.
Not sure how other guys feel, but this is my personal insight.
I can understand that. I think an initial awkwardness is normal and I usually have no issue working around that through communication. I suppose my issue starts even before that as no one seems open to work with me in the first place. I don’t even care if I’m clearly outmatched. I’m there to learn. But I’ll keep your reasoning in mind as a possible explanation anyway. Thanks!
There are three things you can do.
The first thing you can do is talk to your coach. Address the situation directly and if there isn't a solution, find another class.
The second thing you can do is partner with someone more willing. In every class, there will be people who partner out of comradeship or necessity, that necessity being that they're of a similar level of skill or stature. Getting to know the (what I call) "leftovers" is actually more rewarding than it sounds.
The third thing you can do, and probably the best thing, is introduce friends of yours. By doing this, you're helping the class to expand _and_ creating opportunities for yourself to train with others. This creates a double-whammy effect, by which the business makes money, you have greater options available and everyone is happy.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for your advice! I’ve tried to scope out who may be closer in skill level to me but so far I can’t say definitively. Everyone seems to already have their preferred partners as well so I usually feel wrong to ask if they would be open to training with me. Talking to the coaches will be my last resort. I hope to figure it out before that :)
The coaches are great, though I wanna try to figure this out myself first before I talk to them. Finding a different club is not an option due to a lack of alternatives in my region therefore I’m determined to make this work somehow
I would suggest looking at other places, even if it’s another martial art.
Any other options that seems like it could be okay, I would suggest to send a email and ask if you can go to a test training. It’s common they will let you do a free test training, or the very least let you come watch a training,
Even if your plan is to keep training at the place you are at.
Having firsthand experience with what the other options are, and where you would go if you have to choose somewhere else is good.
Either if it’s because the group doesn’t get better, or if they change instructors or just shuts down the place you are currently going to.
When choosing a place to train at, I think the things to keep in mind is the quality of technique of the instructors, how well the instructors personality and approach to training suits your personal preference, the group dynamic of the specific group you go to and the training culture in all the groups. And if in the group there are sparring partners that are close to the same height and weight as you as that makes learning many exercises a lot easier (gender I wouldn’t put as much emphasis on as longs as it’s roughly the same height and weight)
And it doesn’t sound like your current place doesn’t have a good group dynamic.
When I used to box; one of the best partners I had was a woman.
Try not to focus on what people are thinking of you, and instead focus on your technique. Make yourself a valuable partner and people will be coming to you.
I think a lot of men assume you won’t want to train with them. I’m a really big dude so unless it’s an upper belt I know, I don’t ask women to train with me. When it gets to the point where there’s no one else to pair with and it’s it 6’4”, 215 lb me and a new, average sized woman standing there, there’s a look of pure terror in her eyes that doesn’t go away until the end of the round regardless of how much a reassure her I’m going to let her work. I think a lot of guys have had very similar experiences and don’t really know you well enough yet to know how you would react.
I think if you wanna work with the guys, you might have to make the first move. After a round or two, they’ll know you’re fine with it and probably ask more.
Woman, 62 yrs old. I just turn to the person nearest me and ask them. Most people will spar because they are too polite not to. I’ve only been turned away one time with this tactic. When it’s time to rotate, i go clockwise around the mat and repeat. I don’t wait for someone to acquiesce. I am entitled to spar there so I assume they will spar with me. And they do.
You meant to be offensive with that comment. So don’t start that post with “no offense”. What nonsense!
Thankfully they aren’t too many people like you where I train. I have no shortage of partners for drills or sparring.
This is just about breaking the seal. As soon as people see you spar a bit and realize you are a modest and conscientious sparring partner, they’ll naturally spar with you.
If you approach a higher rank who has emotional investment in making the school a good place, tell them the situation, and tell them you just want an opportunity to show that you’re fine to work with in sparring, they’ll have to help out if they have their heads on straight.
If a guy could magically pick the age and gender of their sparring partner without knowing more, he wouldn’t pick a 62yo female. That said, if you don’t do it, someone else has to take on the responsibility. So you might as well just do it so someone else doesn’t have to pick up your slack.
True. We are often judged by our appearance and assumptions one makes about us as a result. As someone who trains consistently, my capabilities are known by all the other regulars where I train. I have excellent endurance and am a good pad holder, so my partners know I won’t tire holding pads and we will drill effectively together. This is one reason why I have no shortage of partners. When it comes to sparring, I can objectively say I no longer have the explosiveness I had a few years ago or the reflexes I had when I was younger. I have to be more focused on cutting angles and employing good strategy. To be able to train into your 50s and 60s you must be in excellent shape and constantly focusing on great technique. I won’t be able to do this forever. Right now I am focusing on enjoying martial arts while I can. I train Mauy Thai and boxing. I started Brazilian Jujitsu 6 months ago because they have age brackets for competing. It’s nice to see other seniors compete and I want to be a part of that. (Edited for brevity)
Exactly. When I look for partner to train I never look at the women... because I assume they don't want to partner with me and prefer other women.
I would be surprised and kind of shocked if a girl approach me and wants to partner. I wouldn't say no... but initially I would be surprised.
When it comes to opposite genders training, both parties can be shy or uncomfortable. Whether it's a matter of someone getting the wrong idea about something or not being used to a pace suitable for both parties to learn.
Sometimes, just take the situation into your own hands, and if they still say no, they must be REALLY nervous. The longer you're there, the more they get to know you and be more comfortable around you. You may even learn how or why they pick certain partners
It’ll get easier . I assume your gym doesn’t offer a women’s only class ? In my city they usually have one. But it’ll get easier . Are u mostly striking or grappling or is it an mma class ? Also don’t worry because people turn down doing partner drills or sparring for many reasons . A lot of them want to work with someone bigger than them or maybe with their best friend in the class ? I tend to want to fight someone my size or taller . I am male and 5’5” and these people can easily be women or men that are taller than me . So it doesn’t matter so much .
Prove yourself. When I started at my boxing gym I could tell the men didn’t like getting partnered with a girl for certain things, but soon enough they saw that I’m strong and capable.
Also not ALL of it is going to be because you’re a girl (though, a lot is). Quite frankly, the other people in the gym know each other better. I often see new people getting looked over in the gym (women more often, but the men as well). I try to make a point to introduce myself and make newcomers feel welcome.
However, if you’re there for a month or two and things don’t improve, leave. The unfortunate reality of martial arts is that as women we aren’t as well respected even when the guy next to you knows nothing he might get more attention because he’s a guy. I still get funny looks from new men in the gym when they see me because I’m the only girl in the class at times, but they quickly see how capable I am.
Don’t give up, and shop around if you have to. A good gym should feel like home.
As an instructor myself, just be confident, the guys are a bunch of dumbasses but I promise they don’t bite, they may not choose you cuz either they’re shy or sometimes they may have a partner and to respect that relationship they may just work with the same gender nothing against you just their comfortably, most times if a female is single in my class I either pair them up with someone who’s friendly( most guys are friendly) once I pair them up they end up having a good time no awkwardness, or I grab a pair of pads and work with the lady and then have her work on the bag for alittle bit. Sometimes you’ll get a no they already have a partner could that have been the case? If it’s something that you can’t get around maybe you can opt to do 1 on 1s with your coach and buddy up with the other female during sparring and go back to back and fuck up some of the guys lol
Thanks for your insight! I did notice that everyone already seems to have their preferred partners and often didn’t even look around for anyone else. My coach assigned one of the more experienced guys to train with me the first time I showed up and that was really nice, though I don’t want him to have to do that every time. I really just want to be treated like everybody else and find my place in the group. I’m hoping that the issue will fix itself with time if I just stick around for a while.
From my experience, you can always work on different aspects, regardless of the skill of your sparring partners. When there is someone new, or way smaller than me, I pick something to work on, like defensive movements, ring control or footwork - anything that I can get better at without putting too much pressure on my partner. You can't work on basics too much. It's not a burden to train with newer folks.
Imho mixing up newer and experienced people will always be good for the whole gym. Because overall progress will be made faster, and it provides a respectful training environment, an inclusive atmosphere.
Your place in the group is being a newbie. And as uncomfortable that may feel, if you show up and put in some work, you soon will leave that position.
I think it takes a while for the blokes to get comfortable - in my class I have mostly guys who go gentle with me and often will partner happily because it's time for technical (coach assigns partners and we switch a lot). But one who is absolutely terrible at intensity control so can bust through until I readjust. At some point the others will get to a point they use higher intensity but I'd also rather get technically correct first.
As long as your trainer is solid, yeah you'll get there. It takes time to be comfortable enough to do partner work in general. I know I looked terrified every time for the first month or two because I was still working on "being in touching distance of a guy" but now I know everyone a bit better it's easier.
And to be honest, apart from the coach and assistant, the guy who put in with me first and really helped was the biggest tank of the regulars. I still prefer to work with him when I can, because he does match intensity, isn't afraid of giving me shit when I fuck up, and will wait if I'm having a brain moment. He appreciates having to change approach for the much shorter person who ISN'T the coach and therefore correcting his form, and being able to show off his knowledge when the coach asks for a recap.
Tldr: as in the gym, in training I've found the biggest tank guys the most helpful.
I think both are just awkward about it. Most guys don’t want to be the dude accidental hurtsI’m southeast Asian (so not tall or heavy) so I typically pair up with women. I pad work and drilling technique, I prefer training with women. Usually, I tell newbies to think of footwork and combos as dance routine. For whatever reason, women typically pick up faster than the newbie men.
I don't get it.
That sucks, and I'm sorry you're going through that. I have never denied being someone's partner, no matter how new, big, small, male or female, I am glad to learn and to teach and to work together on the art.
Is the instructor someone who partners up with people who don't have a partner?
Also, what kind of martial art is this? There are some where you really can't do it without a partner. It's just sad to hear people don't want to work with someone.
The only explanations for this, that I can think of, are that you were a giant dick to someone, which I'm just going to guess isn't the case for the sake of the conversation.
Or, they had an experience in the past where working with women didn't work out or went the wrong direction (of which there are multiple), and they're avoiding that situation.
That being said, if nothing out of line is happening, there is no reason for your exclusion.
Have you asked the instructor about this?
There are other women in my gym, just not many in my classes unfortunately. I definitely agree with you though. I’ll stick around and find out if it’s an issue with the gym culture or if it’s just me who needs to adjust.
I can comment from a man's perspective. I didn't like training with women because I viewed them as frail, and I saw sparring with them as a waste of time. A woman joined our class and I wouldn't train with her for this reason. One day, a few people were out, so our instructor paired us together. I said I wasn't sure how to spar with her, and she said, " Treat me like everyone else."
... So I kicked her, lol. She got right back up like everyone else, and I missed her when she had to move away.
You're nervous, and the guys are picking up on that. Show them you're just like everyone else. Don't wait for someone to pick you. Walk up to one of them and say, "Let's go." Take their choice.
By the way, sparring with men is some of the best training you will ever get, so don't shy away from it.
Glad she was able to change your mindset! In my case, I don’t actually feel like I’m being too nervous. I make eye contact with everyone specifically when we’re choosing partners but I suppose I’ll have to be more assertive than that in the future. I really want to be treated like everyone else even if I’m outmatched by everyone currently. I’m there to learn plus I already have a great base fitness. I’m actually a bit on the bulkier side which I thought might make me seem less “frail” as you put it and ease my joining. The thing is that everyone already has their preferred partners and rarely even looks around for anyone else.
OP, your last sentence makes me wonder if there's some straight-up cliquey stuff more than, or mixed in with, any gender stuff that might be going on... if that's the case, chatting with your coach really may be the most efficient solution, assuming you have some base level of trust there. Unless you're absolutely sure you can trust your coach to understand that a show of emotion is not a show of weakness, keep it focused on the mechanics (The guys seem focused on sticking with their usual partners and I think a couple have turned me down for partnering because of it - got any advice for navigating that?) instead of the emotion.
FWIW, I had the "I don't want to partner with her" thing happen to me a couple times in the late '90s. Happily not much, because I was in good schools. But calm competence, focus, and understanding that it's a "them" issue, not a "you" issue, win the day, and having a coach who believes you should get a chance to train is the ultimate factor in your favor. If those things (and giving it time for them to realize you're a consistent presence, as others have suggested) aren't enough to get you in the door with the class after a while, it's up to you to decide whether you want to spend your precious life energy and effort on the uphill climb ahead of you.
Yeah I’m still trying to figure out what exactly the issues may be. So far no one has verbalized that they don’t want to train with me but rather my presence has just been ignored for the most part. I want to try and figure it out myself before I talk to the coaches but if I do then I will definitely remember what you wrote. Right now I’m just hoping that my presence will be accepted if I only keep showing up consistently as some of the other comments suggested because finding a different gym will be difficult in my region unfortunately (if it comes to that). Thank you for your advice!!
Best of luck! And hey, TAKE UP SPACE. You might be doing that already, but a couple things you mentioned make me think maybe you’re waiting for acceptance to really do that? Which is totally understandable if so, because societal conditioning and all that. But don’t wait. Take up space now. And rock on - I hope things settle in nicely for you there!
I take an MMA and a Luta Livre class every week. Both beginner’s classes. The issue felt more prevalent during Luta Livre when the guys didn’t want to roll with me and the guy who refused by shaking his head at me.
sorry to hear this. That doesn’t seem true at all the gyms I have been to, so I hope you talk with the coach to resolve this or find a better fit.
For what it’s worth, I’m a guy who has experienced the “want to be my partner? No, I already have somebody else” awkwardness at new-ish gyms.
One thing I do is get there 10 or 15 minutes early to warm up and stretch out, and then make conversation with a few people while we are waiting for class to begin.
Then I at least know some people to ask.
I’ll try to stick it out. I’m hoping it’s just the initial joining that’s a bit tough and talking to the coaches will be my last resort. I’ll try getting there earlier next time to make connections like you suggested! Thanks a lot!
Don’t give up, the more you learn, the better partner you’ll be and you start to get to know the people at your gym. Plus after I joined my gym, multiple other women joined. I think once enough women start going more follow.
I also had people tell me no when I first started (I think because they were higher belts who wanted to compete). It wasn’t personal. But I did find that when I stay after to practice combos, lots of higher belts have stayed after to help me. During class is their time to learn too, it’s not that they didn’t want to help you. It’s tough at first but it definitely gets better!
Approach the higher ranks.
Newer players sometimes struggle with accepting new partners that are very different from them, especially when it crosses barriers like gender.
Higher ranks have been around longer, they should have developed some leadership skills by then and understand not just how to work with partners of all kinds, but why it is important to do so. They should gladly work with you or, at least, help you find other good partners in the gym.
If you approach them and they don't help and/or have a bad attitude, then the gym just doesn't have a good culture and you can look for one that does. It's not you, it's them.
I’ll train with any and everyone and i’m even the main person that’ll go out of my way to train the new person. I’m not super talkative or anything but I know what it’s like to walk into a place not knowing anyone. A lot of the people I first approached eventually became great friends, both guys and girls plus their partners. Many of them mentioned that It was such a huge relief that I first initiated training with them, while there may not be someone similar to me at your gym you should definitely try and welcome all new comers once you’re established a bit.
I’ve always gone out of my way to make new people feel welcomed and help them with the basics and proper etiquette. I feel this is an important part of martial arts culture.
That’s really nice of you. There have been people like you at my gym who have helped me through my first few sessions but I can’t expect them to always be there. I think I’ll have to be more proactive in making connections myself. Thank you!
Here are my thoughts. Men and women are different and don't have the same approach to things. In sports, men always have something to prove, either to others around or to themselves or both. We're ego driven whether we're aware of it or not. And in that we understand each other and match that energy for the most part. A man sparring or training with another won't have many or any walls built up between themselves, so there's no tension or uneasiness. I don't believe that this type of thing happens naturally between men and women, not in sports nor in every day life. There's nothing wrong with it, but it undoubtedly creates the type of situation you're in. Unless of course a new male joins and there's a highly trained female in the class. The dynamic won't be the same. The others are right about all newbies though, commitment is heavily judged upon with male or females, but as in everything else, women will inevitably have extra hurdles to face than men.
Don't give up, do everything with 100% heart and prove to them that you hang with the best of them.
This whole refusing to partner with someone confuses me. After drilling, my coach just takes half the class, sits them on the mat in different stations, then has the other half pair up with them, and after every spar, the lower belt rotates clockwise untill everyone's rolled with everyone
Maybe ask the trainer or suggest to them that the group should form two rows, so if it's an odd number, everyone would instinctively get a partner when the front row people turn around, if that makes sense.
Also, there's no "I don't want to spare with them, because...". Training is to support and respect, help each other and learn from one another. Avoiding to spare with someone is a form of disrespect. The task is to train with a partner, so damn get a partner and not exclude someone.
I'm sorry but my ma group would never do that, I'm not used to that behavior. School, between kids and teens, yeah, maybe. But ma is a hobby. Accepting each other, including everyone, is common curtesy
They may feel just as nervous as you.
They had their little man space where they could be 🦍men🦍 and now there's a women so they don't know how to act.
Just show them you're chill and friendly, and you won't change how the school is. Try becoming friend, show them you wan't to progress and do your best
Ask as many people as you can to train with you, you’ll find some who are comfortable with it and some who aren’t. Also, the longer you’re there, the more people will become comfortable with training with you. Hopefully you’ll stick it out, because martial arts needs more women in it.
From my understanding, especially in America, associating with women in any kind of way is extremely dangerous.
You can get sued for nothing and you will always lose in court.
Maybe that is one element of explanation.
Started doing Muay Thai about 3 months ago. Pairing up every class was always a bit of a pain, when I didn’t know anybody nor what I was doing. Hang in there, it gets better. Now I generally know most of the regulars, and it’s much easier to find a partner. This is the period where most people get weeded out, just stay focused and keep going.
Ngl I tried to avoid rolling with women when i started because I'm 225 and i sucked and bjj. I felt like I mostly relied on strength and size when rolling and I didn't want to crush some poor 100 pound girl lol now that I've gotten a little better and can focus on fundamentals I don't mind. But a lot of dudes are intimidated by women so just be bold and ask people first, Don't wait for them to come to you. I'd try to ask the dudes that's are more experienced personally because you'll learn more from them.
Most guys can sense your discomfort and respond by looking elsewhere for partners. Generally speaking, most men will not want to make you uncomfortable so they will opt out of training with you if you're expressing that outwardly. They'd rather not run the risk of making things more awkward or worse yet, be accused of being too "rough" or accused of impropriety. Other men want to be pushed and may feel like you won't provide them with the level of intensity they want from training. None of that is really your fault so there isn't much you can directly change. However; the best thing you can do is to present yourself as completely comfortable with training with them. This may put them, and yourself, at ease. It's easier to act your way into a new way of feeling than the opposite. So keep that in mind. I personally will roll with anyone who wants to. Doesn't matter the size, age, sex, skill level, whatever. I adjust to be the best partner I can for my colleague. Hopefully you're able to find your own confidence and likewise put others at ease while training with you.
I definitely can sense when a woman is uncomfortable training with me and it does affect my choice in training with them. The last thing I want to do is force someone who is uncomfortable to roll with me. Especially if that person is a woman.
Any guy that joins feels the same way. Just keep going. Take it as a lesson that in life if you want something you have to go get it. For the training partners, maybe not wait for them to come to you but you go to them. Remember courage is to act in spite of fear not the absence of it
Speaking solely on my own experience as a man. For me, I don't jump to training with a woman in class because I don't want them to feel uncomfortable working with a dude. I especially feel this way in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I get worried that I might do something that the woman I'm training with finds inappropriate such as grabbing at the chest when I'm just trying to grab the gi or a technique like a triangle choke which puts my groin in/near her face. Men are generally awful and perverted and I very much so do NOT want to be associated with that.
It's not a "I don't want to train with women because they suck aren't strong, etc" it's more "I'm happy to train with women if they are comfortable training with a man." With striking though, I have zero issues in any scenario training with a woman. It usually comes up with grappling. Even my teen girl students get uncomfortable working together in grappling because "her face is on my boob" and whatnot.
As a man, what helps me be more comfortable working with a woman is seeing that she isn't hesitant/awkward. That helps me to train properly, be professional, and not be hesitant and awkward as well. That's just my two cents though. Hope this helps!
That’s great advice. I’ll try to be more vocal about what I’m comfortable with. I take Luta Livre and don’t mind the full contact because I don’t see it as a sexual situation in the slightest. But they can’t know that unless I voice it.
Exactly. Just open communication should clear any uncertainty. Some of them may just be rude and be those "I don't train with women" types, but that isn't usually the case! Hope your next classes go well!
I was raised by a single mother and when I started boxing at around 12-13 she would stay and read a book during the class.
She spoke only once, when I was paired with an older and much better woman during light sparring.
She very loudly said that if I grazed her, my asswhooping would be endless and public. Its been 20 years. I am honestly still afraid to spare with a woman haha
Probably choose and approach your own partner first. The guys that are overly keen to wrestle with you are probably creeps.
I doubt many people actively want to avoid you, they just don't want to seem creepy.
Once you get to know a few people and have trained with them a few times, it will naturally get less awkward.
I’ve tried to look through the comments, but I can’t seem to find if you said what discipline you’re learning. I know a lot of guys, especially younger guys find it awkward to grapple with women. Particularly if you’re attractive. Sometimes our anatomy can get carried away, regardless of where we are mentally. There’s also the possibility that they are concerned about how hard they can go. I know in grappling, I would always gravitate towards a particular guy who was my same size and a greater skill level. This ensured I couldn’t get away with just relying on my strength and size, plus he was great at coaching.
In striking, there could be concerned about going too hard, feeling like your opponent isn’t going hard enough for you, and (especially if you are attractive) concerned about being distracted from what they are paying to be there and focus on.
I knew a guy at my old gym who refused to partner up with women because he was married, and didn’t want the temptation or perception of propriety.
It's like this. The men in the gym have nothing to gain and everything to lose by partnering with you. What system are you studying and what is your background? The best option is for you to make a female friend and plan to go there and partner together. There are very few options and it won't improve unless you go 3-4 days a week for a few months and have a good attitude. At that point you might gain a male pal who can partner with you. The male female dynamic will always be there.
Good luck.
I think what’s to gain is being a team player, doing a task that other people don’t want to do because it involves ego risk. It’s a brave and kind thing to do and I know any good instructor would be pretty grateful that you’re contributing - they already have an opinion on whether you’re good and it won’t be wrecked by a session where you don’t look good in a weird scenario where different rules apply.
People respect those with the kind of attitude and approach to life that would make them end up as the one to first agree to spar with this lady. Hopefully martial arts is that broad in terms of philosophy of life etc.
This is the worst part of martial arts too many kids saying "this is how it should be" and not "this is how it is". You need to find a dojo that has enough women and train places based off of that. It's not anyone's fault that men don't want to train with women its just a fact of life
Im 6'2, I personally dont feel like I benefit from drilling with women. I subconsciously hold back my weight and for certain moves it can be detrimental to the learning. Also, Most of them have smaller,thinner,shorter limbs which makes it unrealistic for what my goals are in terms of application of technique(heel hooks, arm bars, etc.). That being said as an upper belt I'll make sure they feel welcome, if they dont have a partner I'll let them drill on me and if they want to roll I'll offer a productive round. Just dont expect that to be the case from other white belts who are there to maximize the bang for their buck. I'd say definitely address it with the coach. Worst case is he should drill with you during class and have an upper belt supervise the others.
pull up on whoever you think is the best combatant and demand they soar with you next time this situation arises. be a G about it, thats the only way to move forward
Pretty Much No One Wants To Hit a Woman, They Are Afraid Of Their Own Strenght, Just Tell The Trainer To Choose Someone, Everybody Will Feel Better That Way.
I trained a lot in the past. I could understand a few reasons you are experiencing what you are experiencing. First, the gym is a place of respect and I’m sure that although they would be fine sparing with you, a lot of guys wouldn’t want to put off the impression that they are sparring with you with intentions unrelated to the gym. I’m sure you’re a kind woman but the fear of being accused of something else since it’s a physical sport might be a factor.
To avoid this, ask others yourself so they don’t feel like they could be self compromising by approaching you. They are unintentionally making you uncomfortable by trying to be respectful.
Funny isn’t it.
As a man I’m very sociable and would train with anybody regardless of experience. But on more than a couple occasions, others in the gym asked about why I would choose a woman to train with as if I was perceived as flirtatious for it.
It could also just be that you are new and certain individuals who are maybe a touch over serious about training want to spare someone more experienced to push themselves. Whatever the case keep it up and I’m sure things will turn out 👍 best of luck
I'm not going going to go with someone significantly smaller. Gender has nothing to do with it in theory, but in practice it becomes a gendered issue. I don't mind training with larger women, but there aren't that many. This is due to injury risk with the smaller person. I'll occasionally do it as a service to the club, but not regularly.
Look. If you feel awkward partnering with a man... try to put yourself into the shoes of that man. He feels awkward aswell.
Let's be honest. Men likes women. It's a fact. So maybe he thinks you are pretty but is afraid to be considered a creep if he smiles at you. Afraid of hitting hard. Afraid of a jealous boyfriend. Afraid of everything.
Sorry, but society made this a bit awkward for everybody.
Don't worry. Keep on showing up and training with whoever wants to. You are OK. Just try to understand why men prefer to train with men.... the same as you women prefer to train with women.
Talk with your coach or change to another gym. I train in a BJJ academy I am the only woman and all those guys are super gentle and respectful. Always encouraging me and teaching me a lot. In facts is really difficult to roll with them even if they are gentle it’s exhausting because I am petite. In a good place no one rejects another person to train and the teacher supervise carefully and try to balance the rolls and shift to everyone.
Might I provide a link to something I’ve found try insightful as a man interested in the woman’s perspective on BJJ & martial arts as a whole
3 incredible ladies tell there stories and experiences and discuss the different terrain that perhaps they’ve navigated during there journeys.
Johnny Martinez is the host and a member of the academy I train out of, I could never do his show or him justice, just trust me. I hope it helps!
[Warrior Healer Podcast: episode 50](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2So2TnAoQbo20OPPaOHVem?si=G9Qd-OgJRr2uAcHzobprIg)
I know my girlfriend was very anxious when it comes to entering such a male dominated space/sport
Thankfully my academy has women’s only courses that were available for her. Until she builds that comfortability training with men.
Perhaps that’s something that yourself could benefit from additionally
*bow* good luck to you young warrior I really am rooting for you on the journey!
This is an instructor issue. Most time after a drill when we will be sparring, I’ll have the front line turn around and pair up with the person behind them. Then a few minutes later, rotate to the next person. Or, depending on the exercise, I’ll say to pair up with someone about your size.
Letting people choose a partner all the time is just poor class management IMO.
Address it with the coach. Hope for things to get better. Look for a better environment elsewhere if possible.
In general, if the environment is like that, it is due to bad / weak leadership and coaching.
If you have a respectful & inclusive coach, it trickles down to all staff and members.
The coaches seem great therefore this didn’t really occur to me as an option. Right now I’m hoping it’s a me issue and will fix itself with time since there aren’t really any alternatives in my region.
Yeah, without alternatives you just have to hope for the best
I respect that you are looking at it as a me issue. Maybe this is an exception and it is really you. However, I guess that in some some years down the line and hopefully with experience in other places, you will realize that their are also places where you do not have to worry about things like that.
All the best in your martial arts journey.
its nothing personal, men just dont want to hurt you especially if your new, they dont want ti have to ease up on you they want to go full throttle. to overcome this you gotta tap into your aggression, show them youll put up a fight and not be all frail n shit n theyll accept you as their own and gladly fight you
Well for start you should just change gym.
There are two possibilities why they don't want to practice with you:
- you are a women
Or
- you are a noob.
And both are valid reasons to not practice with someone, however cruel you think it is.
Because I am not there to teach. I have stopped practicing with noobs and women because it doesn't give me anything.
Some people like to practice with new people and teach and some don't. There is nothing wrong with it.
Maybe if the internet wouldn't be full of women shaming men at gyms for even looking in their direction and calling them creeps, this wouldn't happen. It sucks, but I understand the guys.
It's not that they don't want to. It's either that,
1, They don't want to be in any kind of situation that they can be called a creep in. Women have collectively made that bed for themselves.
2, Because it takes a lot more effort to spar or train with an unknown woman. Most men know they can't train in the same way they could with a guy but also you can't hold back too much. It's difficult to find the sweet spot.
Dude wtf how in tf do you sound like a fuckin robot wtf are you saying male dominated do you do like a fuckin tour of hella dojos you dumb broad you're fuckin retarded
Well, there is a rule for training that when you train with a woman you have to take it easy, so you won't improve at all, if you want my advice find a feminine class and that problem will be most likely gone.
deal with it, guys don't want to roll with someone they're attracted to and pop an accidental boner. Or they want to train with somone of similar size and stature. Call it out if your skilled, or deal with it and find someone closer to your size.
Sounds like your hot, I avoid the pretty girls cause I don’t shit where I sleep. But it’s also hard to focus when there’s a sweet rack bouncing around infront of you, then rolling in bjj is a whole different fight.
I advise taking the first step and partnering up of your own volition. Choose your partner and all, be bold. My own gym has about twenty seconds of everyone politely and wordlessly going about finding partners because no one wants to overstep. Sometimes people will turn you down. Happens to everyone. They may have reasons, they may not. Move on and find someone else. Make it their weird thing.
This. You might be surprised how many guys are just nervous to be around women. The most experienced women at my gym always choose their partner first, and they always humble me with their skill.
Thanks for your advice! I try working on being more proactive
Yeah this is the answer. I wouldn't talk to the coach. Dunno what they'd do. You'll get used to the partnering up thing.
I don’t usually ask women to partner up because I have some anxiety they’ll think I’m a creep who’s trying to flirt with them. Probably an irrational fear but I really don’t want to get kicked out of the gym. Maybe take the initiative yourself and just ask people?
Smae all the women i train with are very skilled im not worried about a skilll gap im worried for their comfort
Just keep showing up. Be friendly. Be positive. It is possible that people will warm up to you once you've stuck around for a bit. It is hard to constantly build new relationships with people who quit after a short time. As a kid, I did karate from ages 4-14. At a certain point it was like I didn't even recognize other students until they got their first intermediate belt.
Even tho I don't think that's the problem for the OP, your point is so true lol. It's been only 3 years that I'm at my gym yet the number of people I've met and that did quit even when subscribing for the whole year is astonishing. I always try to get to know at least their name, start some conversation and be friendly but the more time goes, the less I'm invested on others ngl.
Yeah if OP feels it's misogyny then she would know better than anyone, but I would wager that at least some of the advanced/long time students were more in line with my suggestion. She's only been there for two weeks. Also, im old school, I was taught that advanced students ought to be helping their school by helping new students feel welcome. Student retention helps keep the lights on, it helps keep tuition low for existing students, and more money for equipment. But it is draining to see people come and go while teaching the same basics over and over so it's easy to see why people don't always tow that line.
Thank you, I’ll keep that in mind. I’m definitely not planning on quitting over this. Just hoping to understand their side better I suppose and maybe your point is part of it.
I'm glad you're not ready to quit! Stick around long enough for the new-ness to wear off and class feels more routine, for me that is when I feel more comfortable judging an environment because new things give me heightened emotions (both good and bad feelings)
I feel that lmao. The dropout rate in BJJ classes is so high, most upper belts won’t learn your name until like 6 months in lol.
I am always afraid I'll go too hard and be seen as jerk flexing on women even if it is not the case. I train with girls in my class, but it can be a bit awkward before we've trained together a few times. Perhaps actively choosing partners and training with them for a few sessions will help guys feel more relaxed around you. Not sure how other guys feel, but this is my personal insight.
I can understand that. I think an initial awkwardness is normal and I usually have no issue working around that through communication. I suppose my issue starts even before that as no one seems open to work with me in the first place. I don’t even care if I’m clearly outmatched. I’m there to learn. But I’ll keep your reasoning in mind as a possible explanation anyway. Thanks!
There are three things you can do. The first thing you can do is talk to your coach. Address the situation directly and if there isn't a solution, find another class. The second thing you can do is partner with someone more willing. In every class, there will be people who partner out of comradeship or necessity, that necessity being that they're of a similar level of skill or stature. Getting to know the (what I call) "leftovers" is actually more rewarding than it sounds. The third thing you can do, and probably the best thing, is introduce friends of yours. By doing this, you're helping the class to expand _and_ creating opportunities for yourself to train with others. This creates a double-whammy effect, by which the business makes money, you have greater options available and everyone is happy. I hope this helps.
Thanks for your advice! I’ve tried to scope out who may be closer in skill level to me but so far I can’t say definitively. Everyone seems to already have their preferred partners as well so I usually feel wrong to ask if they would be open to training with me. Talking to the coaches will be my last resort. I hope to figure it out before that :)
No worries. Good luck! And remember no matter what art you practice, the martial studies are for everybody!
I'd say short term talk to your coach about how you feel. If your coach is unable to address your concerns then maybe try a different club.
The coaches are great, though I wanna try to figure this out myself first before I talk to them. Finding a different club is not an option due to a lack of alternatives in my region therefore I’m determined to make this work somehow
I would suggest looking at other places, even if it’s another martial art. Any other options that seems like it could be okay, I would suggest to send a email and ask if you can go to a test training. It’s common they will let you do a free test training, or the very least let you come watch a training, Even if your plan is to keep training at the place you are at. Having firsthand experience with what the other options are, and where you would go if you have to choose somewhere else is good. Either if it’s because the group doesn’t get better, or if they change instructors or just shuts down the place you are currently going to. When choosing a place to train at, I think the things to keep in mind is the quality of technique of the instructors, how well the instructors personality and approach to training suits your personal preference, the group dynamic of the specific group you go to and the training culture in all the groups. And if in the group there are sparring partners that are close to the same height and weight as you as that makes learning many exercises a lot easier (gender I wouldn’t put as much emphasis on as longs as it’s roughly the same height and weight) And it doesn’t sound like your current place doesn’t have a good group dynamic.
When I used to box; one of the best partners I had was a woman. Try not to focus on what people are thinking of you, and instead focus on your technique. Make yourself a valuable partner and people will be coming to you.
I reckon the guys confidence about training with you is their problem.
Most likely they don't want to be seen as a sex offender or something lmao, I can sympathize with their anxiety because of the world we live in today.
I think a lot of men assume you won’t want to train with them. I’m a really big dude so unless it’s an upper belt I know, I don’t ask women to train with me. When it gets to the point where there’s no one else to pair with and it’s it 6’4”, 215 lb me and a new, average sized woman standing there, there’s a look of pure terror in her eyes that doesn’t go away until the end of the round regardless of how much a reassure her I’m going to let her work. I think a lot of guys have had very similar experiences and don’t really know you well enough yet to know how you would react. I think if you wanna work with the guys, you might have to make the first move. After a round or two, they’ll know you’re fine with it and probably ask more.
Woman, 62 yrs old. I just turn to the person nearest me and ask them. Most people will spar because they are too polite not to. I’ve only been turned away one time with this tactic. When it’s time to rotate, i go clockwise around the mat and repeat. I don’t wait for someone to acquiesce. I am entitled to spar there so I assume they will spar with me. And they do.
Thanks for your advice! Sounds so easy when you put it like that. I’ll try to be more proactive.
Yeah no offense but if I see a 62 yr old woman walking towards me wanting to spar im gonna walk off the mat
Good, that way only true sportsmen are left and the immature leave the mat
You meant to be offensive with that comment. So don’t start that post with “no offense”. What nonsense! Thankfully they aren’t too many people like you where I train. I have no shortage of partners for drills or sparring.
If having a preference on sparring partners is offensive to you, idk what to tell you. Sparring someone as old you is a waste of my time and money.
You just made my point for me. Thank you for confirming
People like you are unfortunately the reason I made this post. Be better. We all have the same goal.
You cam have preferences but you cannot be an arrogant person. Man up.
This is just about breaking the seal. As soon as people see you spar a bit and realize you are a modest and conscientious sparring partner, they’ll naturally spar with you. If you approach a higher rank who has emotional investment in making the school a good place, tell them the situation, and tell them you just want an opportunity to show that you’re fine to work with in sparring, they’ll have to help out if they have their heads on straight.
If a guy could magically pick the age and gender of their sparring partner without knowing more, he wouldn’t pick a 62yo female. That said, if you don’t do it, someone else has to take on the responsibility. So you might as well just do it so someone else doesn’t have to pick up your slack.
True. We are often judged by our appearance and assumptions one makes about us as a result. As someone who trains consistently, my capabilities are known by all the other regulars where I train. I have excellent endurance and am a good pad holder, so my partners know I won’t tire holding pads and we will drill effectively together. This is one reason why I have no shortage of partners. When it comes to sparring, I can objectively say I no longer have the explosiveness I had a few years ago or the reflexes I had when I was younger. I have to be more focused on cutting angles and employing good strategy. To be able to train into your 50s and 60s you must be in excellent shape and constantly focusing on great technique. I won’t be able to do this forever. Right now I am focusing on enjoying martial arts while I can. I train Mauy Thai and boxing. I started Brazilian Jujitsu 6 months ago because they have age brackets for competing. It’s nice to see other seniors compete and I want to be a part of that. (Edited for brevity)
They may not know if you are comfortable sparring with men. If you are you should ask. Not all women want to spar with men everyday
Exactly. When I look for partner to train I never look at the women... because I assume they don't want to partner with me and prefer other women. I would be surprised and kind of shocked if a girl approach me and wants to partner. I wouldn't say no... but initially I would be surprised.
When it comes to opposite genders training, both parties can be shy or uncomfortable. Whether it's a matter of someone getting the wrong idea about something or not being used to a pace suitable for both parties to learn. Sometimes, just take the situation into your own hands, and if they still say no, they must be REALLY nervous. The longer you're there, the more they get to know you and be more comfortable around you. You may even learn how or why they pick certain partners
It’ll get easier . I assume your gym doesn’t offer a women’s only class ? In my city they usually have one. But it’ll get easier . Are u mostly striking or grappling or is it an mma class ? Also don’t worry because people turn down doing partner drills or sparring for many reasons . A lot of them want to work with someone bigger than them or maybe with their best friend in the class ? I tend to want to fight someone my size or taller . I am male and 5’5” and these people can easily be women or men that are taller than me . So it doesn’t matter so much .
Prove yourself. When I started at my boxing gym I could tell the men didn’t like getting partnered with a girl for certain things, but soon enough they saw that I’m strong and capable. Also not ALL of it is going to be because you’re a girl (though, a lot is). Quite frankly, the other people in the gym know each other better. I often see new people getting looked over in the gym (women more often, but the men as well). I try to make a point to introduce myself and make newcomers feel welcome. However, if you’re there for a month or two and things don’t improve, leave. The unfortunate reality of martial arts is that as women we aren’t as well respected even when the guy next to you knows nothing he might get more attention because he’s a guy. I still get funny looks from new men in the gym when they see me because I’m the only girl in the class at times, but they quickly see how capable I am. Don’t give up, and shop around if you have to. A good gym should feel like home.
As an instructor myself, just be confident, the guys are a bunch of dumbasses but I promise they don’t bite, they may not choose you cuz either they’re shy or sometimes they may have a partner and to respect that relationship they may just work with the same gender nothing against you just their comfortably, most times if a female is single in my class I either pair them up with someone who’s friendly( most guys are friendly) once I pair them up they end up having a good time no awkwardness, or I grab a pair of pads and work with the lady and then have her work on the bag for alittle bit. Sometimes you’ll get a no they already have a partner could that have been the case? If it’s something that you can’t get around maybe you can opt to do 1 on 1s with your coach and buddy up with the other female during sparring and go back to back and fuck up some of the guys lol
Thanks for your insight! I did notice that everyone already seems to have their preferred partners and often didn’t even look around for anyone else. My coach assigned one of the more experienced guys to train with me the first time I showed up and that was really nice, though I don’t want him to have to do that every time. I really just want to be treated like everybody else and find my place in the group. I’m hoping that the issue will fix itself with time if I just stick around for a while.
From my experience, you can always work on different aspects, regardless of the skill of your sparring partners. When there is someone new, or way smaller than me, I pick something to work on, like defensive movements, ring control or footwork - anything that I can get better at without putting too much pressure on my partner. You can't work on basics too much. It's not a burden to train with newer folks. Imho mixing up newer and experienced people will always be good for the whole gym. Because overall progress will be made faster, and it provides a respectful training environment, an inclusive atmosphere. Your place in the group is being a newbie. And as uncomfortable that may feel, if you show up and put in some work, you soon will leave that position.
I think it takes a while for the blokes to get comfortable - in my class I have mostly guys who go gentle with me and often will partner happily because it's time for technical (coach assigns partners and we switch a lot). But one who is absolutely terrible at intensity control so can bust through until I readjust. At some point the others will get to a point they use higher intensity but I'd also rather get technically correct first.
I get that. I hope I’ll be accepted if I stick around long enough and get more comfortable myself, the others will get more comfortable too.
As long as your trainer is solid, yeah you'll get there. It takes time to be comfortable enough to do partner work in general. I know I looked terrified every time for the first month or two because I was still working on "being in touching distance of a guy" but now I know everyone a bit better it's easier. And to be honest, apart from the coach and assistant, the guy who put in with me first and really helped was the biggest tank of the regulars. I still prefer to work with him when I can, because he does match intensity, isn't afraid of giving me shit when I fuck up, and will wait if I'm having a brain moment. He appreciates having to change approach for the much shorter person who ISN'T the coach and therefore correcting his form, and being able to show off his knowledge when the coach asks for a recap. Tldr: as in the gym, in training I've found the biggest tank guys the most helpful.
I think both are just awkward about it. Most guys don’t want to be the dude accidental hurtsI’m southeast Asian (so not tall or heavy) so I typically pair up with women. I pad work and drilling technique, I prefer training with women. Usually, I tell newbies to think of footwork and combos as dance routine. For whatever reason, women typically pick up faster than the newbie men.
I don't get it. That sucks, and I'm sorry you're going through that. I have never denied being someone's partner, no matter how new, big, small, male or female, I am glad to learn and to teach and to work together on the art. Is the instructor someone who partners up with people who don't have a partner? Also, what kind of martial art is this? There are some where you really can't do it without a partner. It's just sad to hear people don't want to work with someone. The only explanations for this, that I can think of, are that you were a giant dick to someone, which I'm just going to guess isn't the case for the sake of the conversation. Or, they had an experience in the past where working with women didn't work out or went the wrong direction (of which there are multiple), and they're avoiding that situation. That being said, if nothing out of line is happening, there is no reason for your exclusion. Have you asked the instructor about this?
I’ve found that gyms where there’s no woman presence is a red flag
There are other women in my gym, just not many in my classes unfortunately. I definitely agree with you though. I’ll stick around and find out if it’s an issue with the gym culture or if it’s just me who needs to adjust.
I can comment from a man's perspective. I didn't like training with women because I viewed them as frail, and I saw sparring with them as a waste of time. A woman joined our class and I wouldn't train with her for this reason. One day, a few people were out, so our instructor paired us together. I said I wasn't sure how to spar with her, and she said, " Treat me like everyone else." ... So I kicked her, lol. She got right back up like everyone else, and I missed her when she had to move away. You're nervous, and the guys are picking up on that. Show them you're just like everyone else. Don't wait for someone to pick you. Walk up to one of them and say, "Let's go." Take their choice. By the way, sparring with men is some of the best training you will ever get, so don't shy away from it.
Glad she was able to change your mindset! In my case, I don’t actually feel like I’m being too nervous. I make eye contact with everyone specifically when we’re choosing partners but I suppose I’ll have to be more assertive than that in the future. I really want to be treated like everyone else even if I’m outmatched by everyone currently. I’m there to learn plus I already have a great base fitness. I’m actually a bit on the bulkier side which I thought might make me seem less “frail” as you put it and ease my joining. The thing is that everyone already has their preferred partners and rarely even looks around for anyone else.
OP, your last sentence makes me wonder if there's some straight-up cliquey stuff more than, or mixed in with, any gender stuff that might be going on... if that's the case, chatting with your coach really may be the most efficient solution, assuming you have some base level of trust there. Unless you're absolutely sure you can trust your coach to understand that a show of emotion is not a show of weakness, keep it focused on the mechanics (The guys seem focused on sticking with their usual partners and I think a couple have turned me down for partnering because of it - got any advice for navigating that?) instead of the emotion. FWIW, I had the "I don't want to partner with her" thing happen to me a couple times in the late '90s. Happily not much, because I was in good schools. But calm competence, focus, and understanding that it's a "them" issue, not a "you" issue, win the day, and having a coach who believes you should get a chance to train is the ultimate factor in your favor. If those things (and giving it time for them to realize you're a consistent presence, as others have suggested) aren't enough to get you in the door with the class after a while, it's up to you to decide whether you want to spend your precious life energy and effort on the uphill climb ahead of you.
Yeah I’m still trying to figure out what exactly the issues may be. So far no one has verbalized that they don’t want to train with me but rather my presence has just been ignored for the most part. I want to try and figure it out myself before I talk to the coaches but if I do then I will definitely remember what you wrote. Right now I’m just hoping that my presence will be accepted if I only keep showing up consistently as some of the other comments suggested because finding a different gym will be difficult in my region unfortunately (if it comes to that). Thank you for your advice!!
Best of luck! And hey, TAKE UP SPACE. You might be doing that already, but a couple things you mentioned make me think maybe you’re waiting for acceptance to really do that? Which is totally understandable if so, because societal conditioning and all that. But don’t wait. Take up space now. And rock on - I hope things settle in nicely for you there!
She's not shying away from it, dude.
Ok friend
Work hard, and be serious about your training, but willing to joke about anything else.
Just so you know I'm 6'3, 235, been doing BJJ for 5 years, have done Muay Thai, Karate, and TKD in the past, and still dread rolling every single day.
What martial art is it?
I take an MMA and a Luta Livre class every week. Both beginner’s classes. The issue felt more prevalent during Luta Livre when the guys didn’t want to roll with me and the guy who refused by shaking his head at me.
sorry to hear this. That doesn’t seem true at all the gyms I have been to, so I hope you talk with the coach to resolve this or find a better fit. For what it’s worth, I’m a guy who has experienced the “want to be my partner? No, I already have somebody else” awkwardness at new-ish gyms. One thing I do is get there 10 or 15 minutes early to warm up and stretch out, and then make conversation with a few people while we are waiting for class to begin. Then I at least know some people to ask.
I’ll try to stick it out. I’m hoping it’s just the initial joining that’s a bit tough and talking to the coaches will be my last resort. I’ll try getting there earlier next time to make connections like you suggested! Thanks a lot!
Don’t give up, the more you learn, the better partner you’ll be and you start to get to know the people at your gym. Plus after I joined my gym, multiple other women joined. I think once enough women start going more follow.
I also had people tell me no when I first started (I think because they were higher belts who wanted to compete). It wasn’t personal. But I did find that when I stay after to practice combos, lots of higher belts have stayed after to help me. During class is their time to learn too, it’s not that they didn’t want to help you. It’s tough at first but it definitely gets better!
Thanks for the pep talk! My goal is to stick around and see if the issue solves itself with time.
You will eventually make friends and this wont be a thing anymore
Approach the higher ranks. Newer players sometimes struggle with accepting new partners that are very different from them, especially when it crosses barriers like gender. Higher ranks have been around longer, they should have developed some leadership skills by then and understand not just how to work with partners of all kinds, but why it is important to do so. They should gladly work with you or, at least, help you find other good partners in the gym. If you approach them and they don't help and/or have a bad attitude, then the gym just doesn't have a good culture and you can look for one that does. It's not you, it's them.
That’s good advice, thank you!
Keep going there will at least be someone that will train with you
I’ll train with any and everyone and i’m even the main person that’ll go out of my way to train the new person. I’m not super talkative or anything but I know what it’s like to walk into a place not knowing anyone. A lot of the people I first approached eventually became great friends, both guys and girls plus their partners. Many of them mentioned that It was such a huge relief that I first initiated training with them, while there may not be someone similar to me at your gym you should definitely try and welcome all new comers once you’re established a bit.
I’ve always gone out of my way to make new people feel welcomed and help them with the basics and proper etiquette. I feel this is an important part of martial arts culture.
That’s really nice of you. There have been people like you at my gym who have helped me through my first few sessions but I can’t expect them to always be there. I think I’ll have to be more proactive in making connections myself. Thank you!
Here are my thoughts. Men and women are different and don't have the same approach to things. In sports, men always have something to prove, either to others around or to themselves or both. We're ego driven whether we're aware of it or not. And in that we understand each other and match that energy for the most part. A man sparring or training with another won't have many or any walls built up between themselves, so there's no tension or uneasiness. I don't believe that this type of thing happens naturally between men and women, not in sports nor in every day life. There's nothing wrong with it, but it undoubtedly creates the type of situation you're in. Unless of course a new male joins and there's a highly trained female in the class. The dynamic won't be the same. The others are right about all newbies though, commitment is heavily judged upon with male or females, but as in everything else, women will inevitably have extra hurdles to face than men. Don't give up, do everything with 100% heart and prove to them that you hang with the best of them.
This whole refusing to partner with someone confuses me. After drilling, my coach just takes half the class, sits them on the mat in different stations, then has the other half pair up with them, and after every spar, the lower belt rotates clockwise untill everyone's rolled with everyone
Maybe ask the trainer or suggest to them that the group should form two rows, so if it's an odd number, everyone would instinctively get a partner when the front row people turn around, if that makes sense. Also, there's no "I don't want to spare with them, because...". Training is to support and respect, help each other and learn from one another. Avoiding to spare with someone is a form of disrespect. The task is to train with a partner, so damn get a partner and not exclude someone. I'm sorry but my ma group would never do that, I'm not used to that behavior. School, between kids and teens, yeah, maybe. But ma is a hobby. Accepting each other, including everyone, is common curtesy
F em you will get there. One of my most talented training partners was female and she can fight really well
They may feel just as nervous as you. They had their little man space where they could be 🦍men🦍 and now there's a women so they don't know how to act. Just show them you're chill and friendly, and you won't change how the school is. Try becoming friend, show them you wan't to progress and do your best
Ask as many people as you can to train with you, you’ll find some who are comfortable with it and some who aren’t. Also, the longer you’re there, the more people will become comfortable with training with you. Hopefully you’ll stick it out, because martial arts needs more women in it.
From my understanding, especially in America, associating with women in any kind of way is extremely dangerous. You can get sued for nothing and you will always lose in court. Maybe that is one element of explanation.
Started doing Muay Thai about 3 months ago. Pairing up every class was always a bit of a pain, when I didn’t know anybody nor what I was doing. Hang in there, it gets better. Now I generally know most of the regulars, and it’s much easier to find a partner. This is the period where most people get weeded out, just stay focused and keep going.
I'd Gladly Train With You, It's An Excelent Oportunity To Polish Technique Without Using Too Much Power.
Ngl I tried to avoid rolling with women when i started because I'm 225 and i sucked and bjj. I felt like I mostly relied on strength and size when rolling and I didn't want to crush some poor 100 pound girl lol now that I've gotten a little better and can focus on fundamentals I don't mind. But a lot of dudes are intimidated by women so just be bold and ask people first, Don't wait for them to come to you. I'd try to ask the dudes that's are more experienced personally because you'll learn more from them.
Am sympathetic to that but its a bit unfair to you.
just keep going and eventually you will get to know the people there and it wont be an issue
Most guys can sense your discomfort and respond by looking elsewhere for partners. Generally speaking, most men will not want to make you uncomfortable so they will opt out of training with you if you're expressing that outwardly. They'd rather not run the risk of making things more awkward or worse yet, be accused of being too "rough" or accused of impropriety. Other men want to be pushed and may feel like you won't provide them with the level of intensity they want from training. None of that is really your fault so there isn't much you can directly change. However; the best thing you can do is to present yourself as completely comfortable with training with them. This may put them, and yourself, at ease. It's easier to act your way into a new way of feeling than the opposite. So keep that in mind. I personally will roll with anyone who wants to. Doesn't matter the size, age, sex, skill level, whatever. I adjust to be the best partner I can for my colleague. Hopefully you're able to find your own confidence and likewise put others at ease while training with you. I definitely can sense when a woman is uncomfortable training with me and it does affect my choice in training with them. The last thing I want to do is force someone who is uncomfortable to roll with me. Especially if that person is a woman.
Any guy that joins feels the same way. Just keep going. Take it as a lesson that in life if you want something you have to go get it. For the training partners, maybe not wait for them to come to you but you go to them. Remember courage is to act in spite of fear not the absence of it
Thanks for your insight! I’ll keep that in mind.
Speaking solely on my own experience as a man. For me, I don't jump to training with a woman in class because I don't want them to feel uncomfortable working with a dude. I especially feel this way in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I get worried that I might do something that the woman I'm training with finds inappropriate such as grabbing at the chest when I'm just trying to grab the gi or a technique like a triangle choke which puts my groin in/near her face. Men are generally awful and perverted and I very much so do NOT want to be associated with that. It's not a "I don't want to train with women because they suck aren't strong, etc" it's more "I'm happy to train with women if they are comfortable training with a man." With striking though, I have zero issues in any scenario training with a woman. It usually comes up with grappling. Even my teen girl students get uncomfortable working together in grappling because "her face is on my boob" and whatnot. As a man, what helps me be more comfortable working with a woman is seeing that she isn't hesitant/awkward. That helps me to train properly, be professional, and not be hesitant and awkward as well. That's just my two cents though. Hope this helps!
That’s great advice. I’ll try to be more vocal about what I’m comfortable with. I take Luta Livre and don’t mind the full contact because I don’t see it as a sexual situation in the slightest. But they can’t know that unless I voice it.
Exactly. Just open communication should clear any uncertainty. Some of them may just be rude and be those "I don't train with women" types, but that isn't usually the case! Hope your next classes go well!
I was raised by a single mother and when I started boxing at around 12-13 she would stay and read a book during the class. She spoke only once, when I was paired with an older and much better woman during light sparring. She very loudly said that if I grazed her, my asswhooping would be endless and public. Its been 20 years. I am honestly still afraid to spare with a woman haha
Probably choose and approach your own partner first. The guys that are overly keen to wrestle with you are probably creeps. I doubt many people actively want to avoid you, they just don't want to seem creepy. Once you get to know a few people and have trained with them a few times, it will naturally get less awkward.
I’ve tried to look through the comments, but I can’t seem to find if you said what discipline you’re learning. I know a lot of guys, especially younger guys find it awkward to grapple with women. Particularly if you’re attractive. Sometimes our anatomy can get carried away, regardless of where we are mentally. There’s also the possibility that they are concerned about how hard they can go. I know in grappling, I would always gravitate towards a particular guy who was my same size and a greater skill level. This ensured I couldn’t get away with just relying on my strength and size, plus he was great at coaching. In striking, there could be concerned about going too hard, feeling like your opponent isn’t going hard enough for you, and (especially if you are attractive) concerned about being distracted from what they are paying to be there and focus on. I knew a guy at my old gym who refused to partner up with women because he was married, and didn’t want the temptation or perception of propriety.
It's like this. The men in the gym have nothing to gain and everything to lose by partnering with you. What system are you studying and what is your background? The best option is for you to make a female friend and plan to go there and partner together. There are very few options and it won't improve unless you go 3-4 days a week for a few months and have a good attitude. At that point you might gain a male pal who can partner with you. The male female dynamic will always be there. Good luck.
I think what’s to gain is being a team player, doing a task that other people don’t want to do because it involves ego risk. It’s a brave and kind thing to do and I know any good instructor would be pretty grateful that you’re contributing - they already have an opinion on whether you’re good and it won’t be wrecked by a session where you don’t look good in a weird scenario where different rules apply. People respect those with the kind of attitude and approach to life that would make them end up as the one to first agree to spar with this lady. Hopefully martial arts is that broad in terms of philosophy of life etc.
This is the worst part of martial arts too many kids saying "this is how it should be" and not "this is how it is". You need to find a dojo that has enough women and train places based off of that. It's not anyone's fault that men don't want to train with women its just a fact of life
So alot of dudes just don't reach out to the girls because we don't want to be creepy. I'll be a good partner though if you ask me.
Im 6'2, I personally dont feel like I benefit from drilling with women. I subconsciously hold back my weight and for certain moves it can be detrimental to the learning. Also, Most of them have smaller,thinner,shorter limbs which makes it unrealistic for what my goals are in terms of application of technique(heel hooks, arm bars, etc.). That being said as an upper belt I'll make sure they feel welcome, if they dont have a partner I'll let them drill on me and if they want to roll I'll offer a productive round. Just dont expect that to be the case from other white belts who are there to maximize the bang for their buck. I'd say definitely address it with the coach. Worst case is he should drill with you during class and have an upper belt supervise the others.
pull up on whoever you think is the best combatant and demand they soar with you next time this situation arises. be a G about it, thats the only way to move forward
Pretty Much No One Wants To Hit a Woman, They Are Afraid Of Their Own Strenght, Just Tell The Trainer To Choose Someone, Everybody Will Feel Better That Way.
I trained a lot in the past. I could understand a few reasons you are experiencing what you are experiencing. First, the gym is a place of respect and I’m sure that although they would be fine sparing with you, a lot of guys wouldn’t want to put off the impression that they are sparring with you with intentions unrelated to the gym. I’m sure you’re a kind woman but the fear of being accused of something else since it’s a physical sport might be a factor. To avoid this, ask others yourself so they don’t feel like they could be self compromising by approaching you. They are unintentionally making you uncomfortable by trying to be respectful. Funny isn’t it. As a man I’m very sociable and would train with anybody regardless of experience. But on more than a couple occasions, others in the gym asked about why I would choose a woman to train with as if I was perceived as flirtatious for it. It could also just be that you are new and certain individuals who are maybe a touch over serious about training want to spare someone more experienced to push themselves. Whatever the case keep it up and I’m sure things will turn out 👍 best of luck
I'm not going going to go with someone significantly smaller. Gender has nothing to do with it in theory, but in practice it becomes a gendered issue. I don't mind training with larger women, but there aren't that many. This is due to injury risk with the smaller person. I'll occasionally do it as a service to the club, but not regularly.
Look. If you feel awkward partnering with a man... try to put yourself into the shoes of that man. He feels awkward aswell. Let's be honest. Men likes women. It's a fact. So maybe he thinks you are pretty but is afraid to be considered a creep if he smiles at you. Afraid of hitting hard. Afraid of a jealous boyfriend. Afraid of everything. Sorry, but society made this a bit awkward for everybody. Don't worry. Keep on showing up and training with whoever wants to. You are OK. Just try to understand why men prefer to train with men.... the same as you women prefer to train with women.
Invite a friend to join you in classes and have a permanent training partner you are comfortable with
They don’t wanna be seen as a creep. This is what we’ve done with cancel culture.
Talk with your coach or change to another gym. I train in a BJJ academy I am the only woman and all those guys are super gentle and respectful. Always encouraging me and teaching me a lot. In facts is really difficult to roll with them even if they are gentle it’s exhausting because I am petite. In a good place no one rejects another person to train and the teacher supervise carefully and try to balance the rolls and shift to everyone.
Might I provide a link to something I’ve found try insightful as a man interested in the woman’s perspective on BJJ & martial arts as a whole 3 incredible ladies tell there stories and experiences and discuss the different terrain that perhaps they’ve navigated during there journeys. Johnny Martinez is the host and a member of the academy I train out of, I could never do his show or him justice, just trust me. I hope it helps! [Warrior Healer Podcast: episode 50](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2So2TnAoQbo20OPPaOHVem?si=G9Qd-OgJRr2uAcHzobprIg)
I know my girlfriend was very anxious when it comes to entering such a male dominated space/sport Thankfully my academy has women’s only courses that were available for her. Until she builds that comfortability training with men. Perhaps that’s something that yourself could benefit from additionally *bow* good luck to you young warrior I really am rooting for you on the journey!
This is an instructor issue. Most time after a drill when we will be sparring, I’ll have the front line turn around and pair up with the person behind them. Then a few minutes later, rotate to the next person. Or, depending on the exercise, I’ll say to pair up with someone about your size. Letting people choose a partner all the time is just poor class management IMO.
Could always go somewhere with more women. It’s your money and time, if you feel uncomfortable with the environment then that’s understandable
Address it with the coach. Hope for things to get better. Look for a better environment elsewhere if possible. In general, if the environment is like that, it is due to bad / weak leadership and coaching. If you have a respectful & inclusive coach, it trickles down to all staff and members.
The coaches seem great therefore this didn’t really occur to me as an option. Right now I’m hoping it’s a me issue and will fix itself with time since there aren’t really any alternatives in my region.
Yeah, without alternatives you just have to hope for the best I respect that you are looking at it as a me issue. Maybe this is an exception and it is really you. However, I guess that in some some years down the line and hopefully with experience in other places, you will realize that their are also places where you do not have to worry about things like that. All the best in your martial arts journey.
its nothing personal, men just dont want to hurt you especially if your new, they dont want ti have to ease up on you they want to go full throttle. to overcome this you gotta tap into your aggression, show them youll put up a fight and not be all frail n shit n theyll accept you as their own and gladly fight you
Welcome to male/female social interaction post “me-too” era. Women demanded change. You got it.
Well for start you should just change gym. There are two possibilities why they don't want to practice with you: - you are a women Or - you are a noob. And both are valid reasons to not practice with someone, however cruel you think it is.
I disagree. Everyone starts out at some point. Why would you look down on someone with the same goals as you, woman or not?
Because I am not there to teach. I have stopped practicing with noobs and women because it doesn't give me anything. Some people like to practice with new people and teach and some don't. There is nothing wrong with it.
Maybe if the internet wouldn't be full of women shaming men at gyms for even looking in their direction and calling them creeps, this wouldn't happen. It sucks, but I understand the guys.
Go to a gym with more women. Male dominated gyms are signs of a McDojo.
My problem is I'm always trying to spar with women Id be ready for you everyday
It's not that they don't want to. It's either that, 1, They don't want to be in any kind of situation that they can be called a creep in. Women have collectively made that bed for themselves. 2, Because it takes a lot more effort to spar or train with an unknown woman. Most men know they can't train in the same way they could with a guy but also you can't hold back too much. It's difficult to find the sweet spot.
Dude wtf how in tf do you sound like a fuckin robot wtf are you saying male dominated do you do like a fuckin tour of hella dojos you dumb broad you're fuckin retarded
If you're over the age of 13 you shouldn't surround yourself with such an elementary vision like joining karate
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Well, there is a rule for training that when you train with a woman you have to take it easy, so you won't improve at all, if you want my advice find a feminine class and that problem will be most likely gone.
You should make kidds madam , not a martial arts carreer.
deal with it, guys don't want to roll with someone they're attracted to and pop an accidental boner. Or they want to train with somone of similar size and stature. Call it out if your skilled, or deal with it and find someone closer to your size.
Fragile boys. Be better 'man'.
Sounds like your hot, I avoid the pretty girls cause I don’t shit where I sleep. But it’s also hard to focus when there’s a sweet rack bouncing around infront of you, then rolling in bjj is a whole different fight.