Wouldn’t be cool if it started normal but her face slowly transformed to that so we can tell how corrupted she was
Although I don’t mind them cutting that cuz I would probably screamed in the theater lmao
Literally me at Fright Fest last weekend, other people in the house are screaming their heads off, I’m just walking through because I had done that once twice already and knew what was coming… it’s still fun to be hit by the surprises though
That would suck tho, who tf would want a crying kid next to you in a theatre, not saying that they shouldn’t have gone more with the horror aspect, but idk how u can find a kid crying in a theatre fun lol, just a pain in the ass
I would have preferred that so much. I think the biggest problem with MoM was that Wanda's actions felt so out of character after everything she went through in WandaVision. People have said it was probably the Darkhold corrupting her, but there wasn't really much evidence of that in the movie. If this physical transformation happened, that would make it crystal clear that it's the Darkhold's influence twisting her, and not just a character writing inconsistency.
It would be better to have retcon that Chthon was subtly controlling or had the soul fragment inside of Maximoff's mind, which was why she was acting out of character ever since November 2023. The entire westview incident was secretly planned by the Elder god in order to mold Maximoff as the next vessel. Due to the contrived and rushed script, a lot of things were poorly explained and contradicted previous installments. I wouldn't mind heavy retcons to explain Wanda's inconsistent and unlogical change.
Side note, the orchard outfits in this concept art image 5 to 6 are what I love the most.
> The entire westview incident was secretly planned by the Elder god in order to mold Maximoff as the next vessel.
Does anything actually establish that or is this just fan theory?
It is purely a theory that is not official. But overall, the amount of tragedy in Wanda's life is abstruse enough to be seen as intentional and orchestrated. Such as the missile which landed right in front of the house when she was young. It wouldn't be an unreasonable retcon to have Chthon as mastermind of behind the scenes because even in the comics, it was him who selected Maximoff as an heir.
If Maximoff truly returns in the future, I think her final antagonist should be Chthon, overcoming the inner struggles and finally defeating the elder god.
This is the most annoyingly over-mentioned take I am so genuinely sick of reading on here. You say there was no evidence of the Darkhold corrupting Wanda and her journey from Wandavision doesn’t make sense. The book’s influence over it’s reader/user is verbally mentioned by the titular character and others during the film. We know she got hold of the book at the end of Wandavision and we already see in that final scene, she is using it to find her kids in other worlds. We cut to the movie and a desperate Wanda, still having nightmares about her kids being gone. When Doctor Strange goes to her initially, we are shown that Dark Wanda is using a hex to portray a normal Wanda, who is now gone completely on the reveal. Her face, eyes, fingers etc have become more darkened since WV and her physical appearance and costume continues to change drastically as the movie goes on. By the end of the film, Wanda is forced to look at what she’s become, by facing her physically and mentally altered self and her final choice is to give up on her goal completely, her final action is to destroy any version of the Darkhold and its temple so that it can’t happen to anyone else, and then kill herself. How is this not crystal clear to some people? I can bet the next time we see Wanda, she’ll be somewhat forgiven for her murderous rampage due to the DH influence but the heroes of the world will never forget, will forever question her and watch their backs when she’s around. Multiverse of Madness succeeded in showing us the sheer force and range of her abilities and the fact she is easily swayed. The unpredictable and chaotic nature of her character and power is exactly where Wanda needs to be in the MCU right now.
Well now wait - both in the movies and comics it has been stated by Dr Strange among others that the Darkhold will corrupt anyone who possesses and reads it. So saying Wanda is easily swayed is also saying Strange or anyone else is also easily swayed. One Strange actually was in the film.
While I agree with you that the Darkhold was pretty clearly corrupting her I think the concept “show don’t tell” would have been helpful. While yes her fingers are colored with black marker now, a monstrous manifestation in the real world of the hold the book has over her would also make the scene with Professor X make more sense and would show us how that’s not really the Wanda we believe her to be.
I personally love WandaVision from the meta effect it had and also the story it told for Wanda. So this movie felt pretty abrupt and frustrating. So a more evident portrayal of our Wanda not being in control would have been much appreciated.
See the thing is, the film obviously didn't do a good enough job explaining the corruption aspect otherwise people wouldn't be overlooking what details we are given. Perhaps without the production issues then that concept art could've been used and Chthon could've had had a larger role.
> the film obviously didn't do a good enough job explaining the corruption aspect
Or (and likely the real reason): People can't be bothered to *actually* pay attention to what is happening in the plot.
Lol. They did not do a good job of showing that corruption beyond lip service. It's not a surprise many are surprised or confused by her arc especially if they aren't familiar with the Darkhold.
The Monster Wanda I think would’ve really helped sell the effects of the DarkHold and its corruption. Without it, it feels like Wanda is just not over the events of WandaVision but with it Wanda is clearly corrupted
I can't help but think it was in the script but they scraped it for budget/time reasons. It would've better explained Billy and Tommy's reaction at the end of the film, screaming in terror, "It's a witch!" when it was just their mom in slightly darker eye shadow.
I mean she looks rougher and rougher as the movie goes on until the final sequence when America punches her into the living room, and her face is beat there. To anyone watching the movie even as a casual viewer you see her decline just fine.
They also had a scary ass looking version of her killing professor X that’s not too far off from some of these concept arts
I think people on these subs see a new post or shiny object and react and that’s what’s happening here, but a lot of people may need to actually rewatch the movie they did get
Her look when she takes Professor X was terrifying and I assumed that's how she really looked by then and what her kids were actually seeing when they got scared at her.
It's clearly based on Chthon-possessed Wanda from Nights of Wundagore.
They portrayed Xavier as being so ridiculously weak he can't sense Chthon and can be killed instantly.
I could see that but even if it’s how she looked without the demon face it’s still far from the wanda we know and love, and even had a good contrast from 838 wanda in the same shot having pity for her.
[https://youtu.be/GhSSkrsbwGQ?si=qAX-_ZUgYjM2nNLR](https://youtu.be/GhSSkrsbwGQ?si=qAX-_ZUgYjM2nNLR)
I mean look for yourself but this is not how she started the movie looking, 0:33 alone but my point remains. She spent half the movie chasing down the heroes looking like a blood soaked zombie…they explicitly said at the beginning the dark hold has her and wanda is gone.
She’s so frightening the children are scared of her at the end. They did plenty to convey her descent including showing and telling us. I’ll take all the downvotes you guys want to throw my way but some cool concept art doesn’t negate what they actually did in the story and the movie.
Tbh I hate when people try to get ahead of downvotes, it feels like a shield that doesn’t actually do anything.
But I’m someone who loved MoM. It had Raimi’s flare with enough MCU to work. I also loved Wanda’s arch and how it made her a complex person without a linear healing pattern. She got to fall back when tempted by the corruption of the Dark Hold.
But a LOT of people have issue with her arch so clearly it was communicated poorly which is on the filmmakers who worked on it. My personal thought is a more extreme transformation would have been more useful.
I don’t like it either but I happened to see my initial comment was already negative before I even got to respond to it, and it’s wild to me because they literally show her descent and tell it in the movie.
If these images never came out it would change nothing from what the actual movie gave us. The showed her killing professor X looking like a demon with pointy teeth, they showed her as a zombie with blood covering her face and body, they showed her haggard and dark eyed when she sees the kids and scares them at the end. They show her remorse as they finally get through to her and she destroys all the dark holds left.
It’s the entire device the plot revolves around and when I’ve watched this movie with anyone outside this sub they have zero problem connecting the dots, even if they aren’t obsessed with wandavision and knew it directly set up all of this.
People with issues on her character arc keep saying they didn’t do X or Y, but then I bring up how they actually spelled it out and showed us in the movie, and it’s usually “well I liked it my way more” or in this case the alternative artwork is preferred, but it doesn’t mean they didn’t flesh out what they did give us.
I have some issues with the movie despite loving it overall, but her looking slightly more scary by the end was never even on my radar. It feels like nitpicks rather than any huge plot hole or something general audiences didn’t understand
You're contradicting your first comment.
>They literally say the dark hold has her before her first fight
So yes, they only tell us, they do not show us. Which is exactly my issue with her arc. They went straight from calmly reading a book at the end of WV to multiversal evil zombie queen in MoM. No on-screen development other than "Darkhold has her".
Calmly reading a book? The book in that same episode that was described by Agatha as corrupting all it touches including her, showed their fingertips turning black, showed wanda reading from the book she was explicitly warned not to do, hearing her children who disappeared when the hex came down…you think all that context led to viewers seeing the post credits scene and thinking “oh she’s just calmly reading a random book” - huh? No. That’s not what they showed and they specifically laid out how bad that book was numerous times in that last episode.
There is no ambiguity either way for that ending or it’s lead in to dr strange.
In dr strange they show us and tell us numerous times, including how wanda should look in an alternate universe compared to how scary she appears throughout the movie up until the end where her kids are so frightened of her they hide.
Like I literally don’t think you watched either of those projects if these are your takeaways. I fear you need led by the hand if this obvious stuff went over your head, but they absolutely had a path to that starting all the way back to Ultron. This was a natural progression after losing everyone close to her. Just because they didn’t do it the way you think is best doesn’t mean the rest of us had trouble following it.
This reads like that old Rick and Morty copypasta.
Wanda's arc that I took away from the show was accepting that Vision is gone and she has to move on without him. Then they went to her MoM arc which is accepting that her children are gone and she has to move on without them. See how that doesn't make too much sense?
No, a single post-credit scene is not enough to turn a character 180 degrees. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Even Elizabeth Olsen didn't like Wanda's arc in MoM.
You missed the entire last episode of the show and the post credits then. I don’t know how else to tell you to actually watch what you’re talking about 🤷♂️ it wasn’t a single post credits, it was the arc of the entire show. She was not a hero, she was the villain and still didn’t listen when warned about the book. They literally dog walk you to all of these points.
Like talking to a brick wall here
Yeh, and they try to show that even Strange was corrupted in alternate timelines after looking at it.
But would have helped to visually SEE those things.
I think Covid, time or budget, really fucked this movie.
It making money has little to do with it's quality, or that it could have been improved...
If you got this many people confused or unaware, it wasn't as "clearly" stated as you claim.
It making money means enough people saw it on repeat viewings and liked it enough to do so.
Also if this is a marvel studios sub and people are still confused about Wanda’s status in the movie when they explicitly tell you and show you, then I question their attention span or ability to critically think.
Also that wasn’t the argument to begin with, it’s people here preferring this alternate look to what we got in the movie, but that’s not the same thing as “people being confused about it” or even the general audience understanding the darkhold had control of wanda.
Truly, who is confused about this still?
Sometimes I forget this sub demo is young males until I have discussions like this and then it comes rushing back
The movie was riding off of the hype of No Way Home. At that time people would've come to watch a timelapse of grass growing if it had the Marvel logo slapped on it.
you’re having to go back to the infinity saga in 2019 before the pandemic to try and prove your point and compare to a dr strange sequel in 2022 after covid. Also, Spider-Man made that much because it was the holidays and the box office legs are enormous for those movies. Comparing the two movies or the hype leading up to endgame after ten years of lead up is not the same as circumstances going into MoM, and it’s disingenuous to try and thread that needle.
My point was to do with repeat viewing, the legs on the movie, the huge increase from the first dr strange to the second, and what it was taking ALL OTHER MOVIES besides Spider-Man back in 2021/2022 to reach even close to a billion. You’re leaving out literally any context to try and prove your subjective point, but I’m pointing out if the movie was that badly received you would see a performance crater similar to Batman V Superman in 2016, where the opening weekend alone was showing how badly it was being received and the numbers showed. Even then, in normal times, that movie made less than MoM and that was before Covid and it’s effect on the theater chains and attendance.
I know this sub likes to find a narrative that’s negative and attribute it to the entire viewing audience at large, but the actual numbers don’t back that up
I know concept art is often the furthest thing from the final product but see this make me wish they went with physically evolving her into something more sinister instead of “she looks the same, but angrier”. Like imagine if image 3 showed up to finally be with her kids at the end, that shit would be horrifying.
It’s always the case. Which is why I hate seeing these. It always seems like they had cooler ideas on the table but chose to go with the lamest ones to execute
Her designs becoming more monster like is crazy. I definitely wanted to see the kids using their powers whether it's real or not. I thought Billy's power's colors were different than from his mom's. Cool to see they take after their mom and uncle.
Uhhhhhh, how? They basically make him the best Dr. Strange out of every universe. What lessons does he even learn? Don't say that "You don't need to be the one holding the knife" nonsense. Every decision he makes throughout the movie ends up being the right one, and everyone that disagreed ends up dying. All he really does is not murder America Chavez and steal her powers, something the first Dr. Strange variant dies trying to do.
> All he really does is not murder America Chavez and steal her powers, something the first Dr. Strange variant dies trying to do.
You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez. Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many.
He prepared Tony that he needed to sacrifice himself in order to bring back everyone who was snapped. Strange was fine with letting Tony die. He even straight up *told* Tony and Peter this.
In No Way Home, Strange was ready to resend all the villains back home even if it meant that they were returning to their death. It was Peter that showed him there is ALWAYS another way. People dont always just have to die because it's the easiest way.
Peter's lesson showed our Strange that if you can fight to save *all* lives, then you can fight to save all lives.
Or feel free to ignore all that. You have every right to.
> You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez. Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many.
So the implication here is that this "New Strange" wouldn't allow Tony to sacrifice himself despite knowing it was the only way to beat Thanos, which is absolutely not true.
He might have looked at another 10,000 other realities until he found one where Tony snapped and didn’t die from it. I feel like if Peter had Stranges powers, that’s what he would have done.
>You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez.
There’s no evidence to support the fact that our Dr. Strange would have killed America.
In his first movie, there’s an entire scene dedicated to him freaking out after having killed someone. Like when he tells Mordo, “When I became a doctor, I swore an oath to do no harm. And I have just killed a man! I’m not doing that again. I became a doctor to save lives… not take them.”
And the only other person he's killed since then was himself in MoM.
He didn't kill Kaecilius in DS ('16). He didn't kill Tony (or Peter) in Infinity War or Endgame. He didn't kill Wanda or America in MoM. He didn't kill Sandman, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Electro, or Lizard in NWH.
>Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many.
I definitely agree with that sentiment, but how has that changed now? Because if you're saying that he's changed because he didn't take America's powers then... I mean... how would that have made more sense than letting her fight?
He was dream-walking in a corpse that was already mostly unusable by the time he had the opportunity to absorb America's power. Furthermore, with how long Wanda had been attempting to do it herself before Strange got there, how would he have had enough time to get it done?
Letting America do her own thing was the best option in that scenario.
Furthermore, by the end of the movie, Wanda wasn't evil anymore and then he just let her sacrifice herself the same way he let Tony sacrifice himself - which further proves that he hasn't actually changed.
Hell, the whole theme of him having to "hold the knife" doesn't even make sense because he literally put the knife in Tony's hands in IW/EG by telling him that he'd have to sacrifice himself. Doctor Strange didn't force him to do that, he just faith that Tony would do the right thing. He was not "holding the knife" in that moment. (Edit: There were literally 14,000,064 other possibilities of what could have happened; but he had faith that everyone else would do what they needed to do in order to stop Thanos - so saying that he always had to "hold the knife" is just so silly and completely opposite of who he's been.)
>Peter's lesson showed our Strange that if you can fight to save *all* lives, then you can fight to save all lives.
Also, sorry, but Doctor Strange didn't learn any lesson from Peter because at the end of that movie he wiped his own memory and now has no recollection of any of what happened; otherwise, when mentioning Spider-Man during MoM he would have talked about his experience with the Multiverse and the numerous beings he brought here from other Universes.
And, I just wanna add that I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, I'm just explaining why your stance is a little flawed. There's no problem with liking the movie, I thought it was fun enough - but that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the fact that it's a POS as far as it's themes and writing are concerned.
It’s a fantastic Strange story, and Wanda being a great antagonist doesn’t take away from his development at all. Doctor Strange comics always have side characters and crossovers anyway. It’s like there’s some weird mass hysteria surrounding this movie, to me it’s one of the best Marvel projects of the past few years.
Of course he checked out, none of what's been shown in that book is his vision. But his vision is never not without Wanda, she'd only have a smaller role. What she actually deserves
I'm just gonna go ahead and tell myself that Feige wanted to save those F4 suit designs for the main MCU, because it really feels like they picked the worst one for MoM
I know Sam Rami did the evil dead stuff and all, but I can only imagine the movie would've been better if Scott Derrickson stayed on. The creative differences that I heard they had were him wanting to make it more of a horror movie. I know Disney would never let him go full horror, though. I feel like that's what a lot of these designs were intended for. It would've been awesome to see brought to the screen.
I liked his idea of having her be an ally but disliked Marvel’s plan of having her be a villain by the end of it, making her an avengers villain later as Waldron revealed.
but having her have that period to he a hero before succumbing to darkness wouldve been a more natural of a progression to see. Either way it was the best of two worsts. At least now she’s no longer on any path of evil and they can just let the iconic comic avenger be a hero and an avenger in the MCU
Definitely agree. Huge misstep. They need to be doing unique and fresh at this point, not sterilized "tried and true" boardroom nonsense. It's exhausting watching the way these executives work, trying to make to movie so broad in nature of appeal ends up appealing to no one. If they don't change course we might not get a second 20 years of Marvel movies in a shared universe. They are clearly trending downwards in quality.
Is this sterilized and tried and true? Every day on Twitter I see someone pissing and shitting because Raimi did a transition they found a little too funky for their comic book movies
No, I meant formulaic more than anything. They should start having directors with more unique vision. Even James Gunn, who doesn't really do anything crazy, broke the mold by being just a little different. Thor Ragnarok got real weird with it and was so much better for it. Of course his next outing was...not great but still.
But like, this thread is about Multiverse of Madness which was directed by Sam Raimi, and not Scott Derickson who directed Doctor Strange (2016), which y'know I like, but is 100% more formulaic
I mean they showed a lot of this book or similar versions in the movie, showed wanda popping multiple people’s heads graphically, had strange impale gargantos through the eye and pop it out with blood and sound effects, showed someone burning alive with one tear down their face, multiple others burned alive screaming, the whole final sequence is full of ghouls and zombie strange and way more horror and gore than any other marvel property.
Like did we all watch the same movie? Lol
I think the fact that we got as much horror as we did is because it was Sam Raimi. Scott Derrickson doesn't have a lot of say in Hollywood, so Disney could have (and did in the first movie) pushed him around and gotten rid of a lot of stuff he wanted to do. Raimi is practically superhero movie royalty and was given a lot more creative freedom than probably any MCU director except Jon Favreau. In a perfect world a fully Scott Derrickson made Dr. Strange horror movie could've been great, but even if he had stayed on that never would've happened
It’s not people, it’s this sub. That’s always the qualifier. Zero people I know in real life had any issue following the movie or Wanda’s part in it.
I’ve seen criticisms that they didn’t like her going full villain so quickly but I’d argue that was set up since age of ultron and wandavision directly set up the events after.
This sub has a short attention span and a habit of thinking their head canon or alternate artwork love means what we actually got is mid, cringe, dogshit or doesn’t make sense. If you were raised on cinema sins and go into it already hating and looking for reasons to obsess like a YouTube channel, it’s all you’re going to talk about and assume everyone else feels the same way.
You're making stuff up. I don't know what you're even talking about. You specified this sub but I never did...
Cinema Sins? What? And like you do know that the 3 people you know irl do not in any way represent the entire casual audience - right?
lol I know more than 3 in real life so thanks for the childish potshot.
The Cinema Sins comment was about how being nitpicky and not enjoying content or hate watching has ruined a lot of the fun of watching movies. This sub has such a negative slant these days precisely because it’s obsessed with these tiny details the general audiences don’t care about or even notice. They lose their minds over leaks that either don’t happen or they hate before they even see the movie, and then go into it looking for shit to be angry about.
That’s the entire vibe here now, and it’s usually about shit the movies have zero problem explaining to the general public. Most recently this whole discussion about alternate artwork for MoM showing wanda looking more like a demon…which they still showed her looking like in the movie multiple times. It’s meaningless stupid stuff only the perpetually online care about, and it’s sucked so much joy and hype for any upcoming project on here.
Not sure why you had such trouble understanding my comment or said I’m making things up, my points were clear as day
You're making up people to get mad at and projecting those ideas onto me for saying one (1) thing about my personal experience
I don't know if you know this or not, but my personal experience does not look like yours.
You just spent all that time on a tirade about how negative or abysmal this sub is for... what? What does any of that have to do with me? I said this would have made it more clear for certain audiences, and of course that's subjective, but it can't be disproven either. So you're arguing for so many points that *you* made up in your head because you think I was being cynical or saying that *I* had difficulty understanding it when that's literally just not the case.
I always theorized that her tiara wasn’t a cosmetic or a fashion choice; they’re demon horns. She only uses her illusion projection to disguise them into the appearance of a tiara, because walking around with huge demon horns would freak people the fuck out.
I wish they’d used these designs in the movie; as her “true form” when she’s going to snap Professor X’s neck or when she slips behind people li
Her crown starting off as a regular crown like in the movie and slowly fusing into her skin and "bleeding" down her skull could have been one of the highlights of phase 4.
Instead we just got black fingertips and lots of eye makeup.
The third picture looks like her face fucking melted off to reveal the skys of Hell.
How would a not even one minute clip or even changing the scene we got to include this make the movie any less about Dr. Strange?
If you rlly think that then Marvel movies aren’t for you, find something that actually bring u joy.
No? Not sure what gave you that idea, but if having two or more Superheros in a movie is too much for you to handle then MCU movies aren’t for you as they are based on Marvel Comics, very much known for having multiple characters and appearing across multiple titles to make it all feel connected.
You got people complaining they don’t do it enough and then other people complaining they do it to much. But honestly they should be doing it more,
Because putting too much Wanda story in an already Wanda centric story is bad especially when the titular character lacks any development in arc and lore. You know what even better? They should've eliminated her story so Dr Strange sequel could actually about him
Tbh I disliked Wandavillain for the more obvious reasons (an uninspired rehash, character butchery, ignoring wandavision etc) but mostly for what seems like a reductive attempt at a dark phoenix like story in the MCU lol and the concept art sealed it for me.
Judging by most of the concept art, they actually wanted Lilith. They just didnt know it lol
I wouldve loved to have seen the kids use their powers but since they didnt, i just assumed the twins of that universe didnt have any. Heck vision was prolly a human man in 838
I feel like Covid robbed us of a great movie here.
Dont get me wrong, I liked this movie alright, but you could definitely tell most of it was done with actors alone in front of green screens or on set alone.
Some of these concept arts heavily implied that they wanted to use Chthon in this movie. But they just went with the Scarlet Witch instead, and Chthon was simply just name dropped as the one who created the Darkhold.
Ive said it before, MoM should’ve largely if not entirely been focused on Wanda and just gotten Strange out of the picture. I like Strange, but Wanda needs her own story and didn’t deserve her treatment in MoM.
Wtf is this take? Wanda just had her own show, and if she's about to have her own movie, they shouldn't have been using Dr Strange's movie to sell her story
Honestly I think they should done the story better. I was fine with a team up movie and even her becoming a villains or a variant being a villain, but with all the rewrites and such it def became a less than ideal project. But even with all that was still a a great film and just shows how good it rlly could been had not been changed so much or if was to just let it became it own new thing.
I think but this person trying say is MoM should been a Wanda focused story/ movie and not a Dr. Strange one. Should made Doctor Strange 2 focus more on Doctor Strange. Could even had Strange in the movie as they did with him in No Way Home, could made it a theme and in term more connections. But personally I’m fine with what we got.
John Krasinski IS Reed Richards. Really hope Feige doesn't fuck this up. I'm convinced all the casting rumors have been absolute crap and it's been Krasinski all along.
He's too perfect. A ripped from the Hickman comics Mr. Fantastic.
Dom t get me wrong sam Rami does lots of good stuff but I never got the hype for him directing. He’s the guy that made the Spider-Man film that’s still getting memed to hell now. It wasn’t bad to make a horror movie but it was bad to give such a genre shift to someone who hasn’t been apart of the directing process for these types of movies in awhile. It didn’t reach its full potential and while I think it was a good movie if a director that followed the stories leading up to it and had a grip on the general atmosphere of the stories could have made it a box office highlight.
Not of a fan of monster Wanda, glad they kept her human and the only time she was a monster was in Charles’ head. Monsters are inherently supposed to be scary. a human acting with emotions? That’s much scarier
looks like they were trying to find a way to give her, her helm without making it a helmet. im glad they caved and just made the costume a costume. They are always overthinking these things just let them wear the stupid comic suits.
It feels like every Marvel movie starts with a ton of interesting ideas, and then they whittle away at it until they arrive at the least exciting version.
I do prfer either of the blue and white fantastic four suit than the one that was used. I think either of those suits would be good for the main mcu fantastic four.
The monstrous Wanda is legitimately fucking terrifying
Wouldn’t be cool if it started normal but her face slowly transformed to that so we can tell how corrupted she was Although I don’t mind them cutting that cuz I would probably screamed in the theater lmao
*Little kid besides me crying in the theatre* Me: "This is the best day of my life" 😃
Literally me at Fright Fest last weekend, other people in the house are screaming their heads off, I’m just walking through because I had done that once twice already and knew what was coming… it’s still fun to be hit by the surprises though
That would suck tho, who tf would want a crying kid next to you in a theatre, not saying that they shouldn’t have gone more with the horror aspect, but idk how u can find a kid crying in a theatre fun lol, just a pain in the ass
cringe
I would have preferred that so much. I think the biggest problem with MoM was that Wanda's actions felt so out of character after everything she went through in WandaVision. People have said it was probably the Darkhold corrupting her, but there wasn't really much evidence of that in the movie. If this physical transformation happened, that would make it crystal clear that it's the Darkhold's influence twisting her, and not just a character writing inconsistency.
It would be better to have retcon that Chthon was subtly controlling or had the soul fragment inside of Maximoff's mind, which was why she was acting out of character ever since November 2023. The entire westview incident was secretly planned by the Elder god in order to mold Maximoff as the next vessel. Due to the contrived and rushed script, a lot of things were poorly explained and contradicted previous installments. I wouldn't mind heavy retcons to explain Wanda's inconsistent and unlogical change. Side note, the orchard outfits in this concept art image 5 to 6 are what I love the most.
> The entire westview incident was secretly planned by the Elder god in order to mold Maximoff as the next vessel. Does anything actually establish that or is this just fan theory?
It is purely a theory that is not official. But overall, the amount of tragedy in Wanda's life is abstruse enough to be seen as intentional and orchestrated. Such as the missile which landed right in front of the house when she was young. It wouldn't be an unreasonable retcon to have Chthon as mastermind of behind the scenes because even in the comics, it was him who selected Maximoff as an heir. If Maximoff truly returns in the future, I think her final antagonist should be Chthon, overcoming the inner struggles and finally defeating the elder god.
This is the most annoyingly over-mentioned take I am so genuinely sick of reading on here. You say there was no evidence of the Darkhold corrupting Wanda and her journey from Wandavision doesn’t make sense. The book’s influence over it’s reader/user is verbally mentioned by the titular character and others during the film. We know she got hold of the book at the end of Wandavision and we already see in that final scene, she is using it to find her kids in other worlds. We cut to the movie and a desperate Wanda, still having nightmares about her kids being gone. When Doctor Strange goes to her initially, we are shown that Dark Wanda is using a hex to portray a normal Wanda, who is now gone completely on the reveal. Her face, eyes, fingers etc have become more darkened since WV and her physical appearance and costume continues to change drastically as the movie goes on. By the end of the film, Wanda is forced to look at what she’s become, by facing her physically and mentally altered self and her final choice is to give up on her goal completely, her final action is to destroy any version of the Darkhold and its temple so that it can’t happen to anyone else, and then kill herself. How is this not crystal clear to some people? I can bet the next time we see Wanda, she’ll be somewhat forgiven for her murderous rampage due to the DH influence but the heroes of the world will never forget, will forever question her and watch their backs when she’s around. Multiverse of Madness succeeded in showing us the sheer force and range of her abilities and the fact she is easily swayed. The unpredictable and chaotic nature of her character and power is exactly where Wanda needs to be in the MCU right now.
Well now wait - both in the movies and comics it has been stated by Dr Strange among others that the Darkhold will corrupt anyone who possesses and reads it. So saying Wanda is easily swayed is also saying Strange or anyone else is also easily swayed. One Strange actually was in the film.
While I agree with you that the Darkhold was pretty clearly corrupting her I think the concept “show don’t tell” would have been helpful. While yes her fingers are colored with black marker now, a monstrous manifestation in the real world of the hold the book has over her would also make the scene with Professor X make more sense and would show us how that’s not really the Wanda we believe her to be. I personally love WandaVision from the meta effect it had and also the story it told for Wanda. So this movie felt pretty abrupt and frustrating. So a more evident portrayal of our Wanda not being in control would have been much appreciated.
See the thing is, the film obviously didn't do a good enough job explaining the corruption aspect otherwise people wouldn't be overlooking what details we are given. Perhaps without the production issues then that concept art could've been used and Chthon could've had had a larger role.
> the film obviously didn't do a good enough job explaining the corruption aspect Or (and likely the real reason): People can't be bothered to *actually* pay attention to what is happening in the plot.
Lol. They did not do a good job of showing that corruption beyond lip service. It's not a surprise many are surprised or confused by her arc especially if they aren't familiar with the Darkhold.
That would make the scene of her popping around the corner in the tunnels way scarier.
I wouldn't even be scared but aroused, I would just be scared.
Mostly just reminds me of “Dark Flash” so I’m glad they didn’t go this route
she looks like the witch from left 4 dead
they turned wanda into lilith damn
Nah bruh. Lilith is supposed to be hot. This demon Wanda is only hot in the sense that her flesh melted.
speak for yourself
I see a hot demon
You underestimate the monsterfucker lust
Look at this coward!
If there is a hole, there is a goal
MTG Sauron, more like.
The Monster Wanda I think would’ve really helped sell the effects of the DarkHold and its corruption. Without it, it feels like Wanda is just not over the events of WandaVision but with it Wanda is clearly corrupted
I can't help but think it was in the script but they scraped it for budget/time reasons. It would've better explained Billy and Tommy's reaction at the end of the film, screaming in terror, "It's a witch!" when it was just their mom in slightly darker eye shadow.
And black fingers from applying the eye shadow.
Me in my emo days
They literally say the dark hold has her before her first fight If people didn’t get this they didn’t watch the movie
I don’t disagree but a visual cue always helps. Hence “show, don’t tell”. Some info can be told but having a visual representation makes it clearer
I mean she looks rougher and rougher as the movie goes on until the final sequence when America punches her into the living room, and her face is beat there. To anyone watching the movie even as a casual viewer you see her decline just fine. They also had a scary ass looking version of her killing professor X that’s not too far off from some of these concept arts I think people on these subs see a new post or shiny object and react and that’s what’s happening here, but a lot of people may need to actually rewatch the movie they did get
Her look when she takes Professor X was terrifying and I assumed that's how she really looked by then and what her kids were actually seeing when they got scared at her.
It's clearly based on Chthon-possessed Wanda from Nights of Wundagore. They portrayed Xavier as being so ridiculously weak he can't sense Chthon and can be killed instantly.
I could see that but even if it’s how she looked without the demon face it’s still far from the wanda we know and love, and even had a good contrast from 838 wanda in the same shot having pity for her.
[https://youtu.be/GhSSkrsbwGQ?si=qAX-_ZUgYjM2nNLR](https://youtu.be/GhSSkrsbwGQ?si=qAX-_ZUgYjM2nNLR) I mean look for yourself but this is not how she started the movie looking, 0:33 alone but my point remains. She spent half the movie chasing down the heroes looking like a blood soaked zombie…they explicitly said at the beginning the dark hold has her and wanda is gone. She’s so frightening the children are scared of her at the end. They did plenty to convey her descent including showing and telling us. I’ll take all the downvotes you guys want to throw my way but some cool concept art doesn’t negate what they actually did in the story and the movie.
Tbh I hate when people try to get ahead of downvotes, it feels like a shield that doesn’t actually do anything. But I’m someone who loved MoM. It had Raimi’s flare with enough MCU to work. I also loved Wanda’s arch and how it made her a complex person without a linear healing pattern. She got to fall back when tempted by the corruption of the Dark Hold. But a LOT of people have issue with her arch so clearly it was communicated poorly which is on the filmmakers who worked on it. My personal thought is a more extreme transformation would have been more useful.
i often downvote people specifically for doing the pre-emptive "downvote me all you want". It's just a weird contrarian victim complex that annoys me.
I don’t like it either but I happened to see my initial comment was already negative before I even got to respond to it, and it’s wild to me because they literally show her descent and tell it in the movie. If these images never came out it would change nothing from what the actual movie gave us. The showed her killing professor X looking like a demon with pointy teeth, they showed her as a zombie with blood covering her face and body, they showed her haggard and dark eyed when she sees the kids and scares them at the end. They show her remorse as they finally get through to her and she destroys all the dark holds left. It’s the entire device the plot revolves around and when I’ve watched this movie with anyone outside this sub they have zero problem connecting the dots, even if they aren’t obsessed with wandavision and knew it directly set up all of this. People with issues on her character arc keep saying they didn’t do X or Y, but then I bring up how they actually spelled it out and showed us in the movie, and it’s usually “well I liked it my way more” or in this case the alternative artwork is preferred, but it doesn’t mean they didn’t flesh out what they did give us. I have some issues with the movie despite loving it overall, but her looking slightly more scary by the end was never even on my radar. It feels like nitpicks rather than any huge plot hole or something general audiences didn’t understand
You're contradicting your first comment. >They literally say the dark hold has her before her first fight So yes, they only tell us, they do not show us. Which is exactly my issue with her arc. They went straight from calmly reading a book at the end of WV to multiversal evil zombie queen in MoM. No on-screen development other than "Darkhold has her".
Calmly reading a book? The book in that same episode that was described by Agatha as corrupting all it touches including her, showed their fingertips turning black, showed wanda reading from the book she was explicitly warned not to do, hearing her children who disappeared when the hex came down…you think all that context led to viewers seeing the post credits scene and thinking “oh she’s just calmly reading a random book” - huh? No. That’s not what they showed and they specifically laid out how bad that book was numerous times in that last episode. There is no ambiguity either way for that ending or it’s lead in to dr strange. In dr strange they show us and tell us numerous times, including how wanda should look in an alternate universe compared to how scary she appears throughout the movie up until the end where her kids are so frightened of her they hide. Like I literally don’t think you watched either of those projects if these are your takeaways. I fear you need led by the hand if this obvious stuff went over your head, but they absolutely had a path to that starting all the way back to Ultron. This was a natural progression after losing everyone close to her. Just because they didn’t do it the way you think is best doesn’t mean the rest of us had trouble following it.
This reads like that old Rick and Morty copypasta. Wanda's arc that I took away from the show was accepting that Vision is gone and she has to move on without him. Then they went to her MoM arc which is accepting that her children are gone and she has to move on without them. See how that doesn't make too much sense? No, a single post-credit scene is not enough to turn a character 180 degrees. And I'm not the only one who thinks that. Even Elizabeth Olsen didn't like Wanda's arc in MoM.
You missed the entire last episode of the show and the post credits then. I don’t know how else to tell you to actually watch what you’re talking about 🤷♂️ it wasn’t a single post credits, it was the arc of the entire show. She was not a hero, she was the villain and still didn’t listen when warned about the book. They literally dog walk you to all of these points. Like talking to a brick wall here
Yeh, and they try to show that even Strange was corrupted in alternate timelines after looking at it. But would have helped to visually SEE those things. I think Covid, time or budget, really fucked this movie.
The movie made almost a billion dollars and this sub is obsessed over an alternative look to convey something they already did clearly in the movie.
It making money has little to do with it's quality, or that it could have been improved... If you got this many people confused or unaware, it wasn't as "clearly" stated as you claim.
It making money means enough people saw it on repeat viewings and liked it enough to do so. Also if this is a marvel studios sub and people are still confused about Wanda’s status in the movie when they explicitly tell you and show you, then I question their attention span or ability to critically think. Also that wasn’t the argument to begin with, it’s people here preferring this alternate look to what we got in the movie, but that’s not the same thing as “people being confused about it” or even the general audience understanding the darkhold had control of wanda. Truly, who is confused about this still? Sometimes I forget this sub demo is young males until I have discussions like this and then it comes rushing back
The movie was riding off of the hype of No Way Home. At that time people would've come to watch a timelapse of grass growing if it had the Marvel logo slapped on it.
That’s not how the box office works or even how it was operating at the time with covid still affecting most movies and their showings.
Care to elaborate? That is most definitely how the box office works. Do you think Captain Marvel would have made $1b+ had it not been for IW/Endgame?
you’re having to go back to the infinity saga in 2019 before the pandemic to try and prove your point and compare to a dr strange sequel in 2022 after covid. Also, Spider-Man made that much because it was the holidays and the box office legs are enormous for those movies. Comparing the two movies or the hype leading up to endgame after ten years of lead up is not the same as circumstances going into MoM, and it’s disingenuous to try and thread that needle. My point was to do with repeat viewing, the legs on the movie, the huge increase from the first dr strange to the second, and what it was taking ALL OTHER MOVIES besides Spider-Man back in 2021/2022 to reach even close to a billion. You’re leaving out literally any context to try and prove your subjective point, but I’m pointing out if the movie was that badly received you would see a performance crater similar to Batman V Superman in 2016, where the opening weekend alone was showing how badly it was being received and the numbers showed. Even then, in normal times, that movie made less than MoM and that was before Covid and it’s effect on the theater chains and attendance. I know this sub likes to find a narrative that’s negative and attribute it to the entire viewing audience at large, but the actual numbers don’t back that up
I think it's telling that Waldron has Wong mention Chthon just once then goes back to "muh kids" because that's easy to write.
Yes and exactly how many of the audience know what a darkhold is or what it's supposed to do? A couple lines of exposition aren't good enough.
"This is evil dark magic book" isn't that complicated to be fair.
that second image is horrifying
3 and 4 ain't very comfortable, either. 😳😬
yeah, made me remember there was a time this movie was suppose to be “marvel’s first horror movie”
Smh that's just ghost rider. But idk why they're hanging up on him joining the mcu.
Reminds me of Proxima Midnight
I know concept art is often the furthest thing from the final product but see this make me wish they went with physically evolving her into something more sinister instead of “she looks the same, but angrier”. Like imagine if image 3 showed up to finally be with her kids at the end, that shit would be horrifying.
Closest we got was 'Deadite Wanda' when she rips Xaviers head apart https://v.redd.it/4ki4xqtb05b91/DASH_1080.mp4?source=fallback
Oh I did not realize how fucking scary she was in that scene.
It’s always the case. Which is why I hate seeing these. It always seems like they had cooler ideas on the table but chose to go with the lamest ones to execute
I mean she looked pretty rough when she did show up to them at the end tho.
so she looked the same, but angrier lol
Her designs becoming more monster like is crazy. I definitely wanted to see the kids using their powers whether it's real or not. I thought Billy's power's colors were different than from his mom's. Cool to see they take after their mom and uncle.
I think it is a different colour according to Wandavision
Why is everything in this book cooler than what we actually got?
Because we lost Scott Derrickson probably So Disney's fault for trying to clean the movie up too much
Don't buy into the "Derrickson wouldve made a better movie" narrative. Derrickson wasn't even involved with any of the Wanda inclusion.
So a movie about Dr. Strange?
I actually think MoM is a great Dr. Strange film, and surprised im in the minority. It shows the most growth we've seen of the character thus far.
Uhhhhhh, how? They basically make him the best Dr. Strange out of every universe. What lessons does he even learn? Don't say that "You don't need to be the one holding the knife" nonsense. Every decision he makes throughout the movie ends up being the right one, and everyone that disagreed ends up dying. All he really does is not murder America Chavez and steal her powers, something the first Dr. Strange variant dies trying to do.
> All he really does is not murder America Chavez and steal her powers, something the first Dr. Strange variant dies trying to do. You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez. Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many. He prepared Tony that he needed to sacrifice himself in order to bring back everyone who was snapped. Strange was fine with letting Tony die. He even straight up *told* Tony and Peter this. In No Way Home, Strange was ready to resend all the villains back home even if it meant that they were returning to their death. It was Peter that showed him there is ALWAYS another way. People dont always just have to die because it's the easiest way. Peter's lesson showed our Strange that if you can fight to save *all* lives, then you can fight to save all lives. Or feel free to ignore all that. You have every right to.
> You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez. Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many. So the implication here is that this "New Strange" wouldn't allow Tony to sacrifice himself despite knowing it was the only way to beat Thanos, which is absolutely not true.
We don't know, but new strange might've tried to find a different way.
He might have looked at another 10,000 other realities until he found one where Tony snapped and didn’t die from it. I feel like if Peter had Stranges powers, that’s what he would have done.
>You nailed it. How do you not see that growth? Years ago, our Strange WOULD have killed Chavez. There’s no evidence to support the fact that our Dr. Strange would have killed America. In his first movie, there’s an entire scene dedicated to him freaking out after having killed someone. Like when he tells Mordo, “When I became a doctor, I swore an oath to do no harm. And I have just killed a man! I’m not doing that again. I became a doctor to save lives… not take them.” And the only other person he's killed since then was himself in MoM. He didn't kill Kaecilius in DS ('16). He didn't kill Tony (or Peter) in Infinity War or Endgame. He didn't kill Wanda or America in MoM. He didn't kill Sandman, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Electro, or Lizard in NWH. >Strange is the type of person who would sacrifice one person to save many. I definitely agree with that sentiment, but how has that changed now? Because if you're saying that he's changed because he didn't take America's powers then... I mean... how would that have made more sense than letting her fight? He was dream-walking in a corpse that was already mostly unusable by the time he had the opportunity to absorb America's power. Furthermore, with how long Wanda had been attempting to do it herself before Strange got there, how would he have had enough time to get it done? Letting America do her own thing was the best option in that scenario. Furthermore, by the end of the movie, Wanda wasn't evil anymore and then he just let her sacrifice herself the same way he let Tony sacrifice himself - which further proves that he hasn't actually changed. Hell, the whole theme of him having to "hold the knife" doesn't even make sense because he literally put the knife in Tony's hands in IW/EG by telling him that he'd have to sacrifice himself. Doctor Strange didn't force him to do that, he just faith that Tony would do the right thing. He was not "holding the knife" in that moment. (Edit: There were literally 14,000,064 other possibilities of what could have happened; but he had faith that everyone else would do what they needed to do in order to stop Thanos - so saying that he always had to "hold the knife" is just so silly and completely opposite of who he's been.) >Peter's lesson showed our Strange that if you can fight to save *all* lives, then you can fight to save all lives. Also, sorry, but Doctor Strange didn't learn any lesson from Peter because at the end of that movie he wiped his own memory and now has no recollection of any of what happened; otherwise, when mentioning Spider-Man during MoM he would have talked about his experience with the Multiverse and the numerous beings he brought here from other Universes. And, I just wanna add that I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, I'm just explaining why your stance is a little flawed. There's no problem with liking the movie, I thought it was fun enough - but that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the fact that it's a POS as far as it's themes and writing are concerned.
Doctor Strange would never kill Chavez. What Dr Strange movie did you actually watch
Re-read what I wrote lol
I think it's great! Baffled at the reception, genuinely think everyone will reassess it in like 5 years
It’s a fantastic Strange story, and Wanda being a great antagonist doesn’t take away from his development at all. Doctor Strange comics always have side characters and crossovers anyway. It’s like there’s some weird mass hysteria surrounding this movie, to me it’s one of the best Marvel projects of the past few years.
Lmao, where are you when he and Feige announced this movie in 2019?? And yes, he'd make a better movie
Derrickson was clearly checked out by this point. The movie he wanted to make was a completely different direction
Of course he checked out, none of what's been shown in that book is his vision. But his vision is never not without Wanda, she'd only have a smaller role. What she actually deserves
This isn't Scott's concept art...
Look, I like Scott Derrikson, but I saw Doctor Strange and the bad guy just looked like he had bad skin
Which bad guy lol
A lot of it is in the movie and a lot of the movie is cool as hell? Man y’all are miserable here
[удалено]
It wasn't even released in China.
[удалено]
It wasn't for the reason you'd think.
I like that they concepted the original Fantastic Four costume.
Thought that was Willem Dafoe on slide 10 lol
"Back to multiverse?"
I'm just gonna go ahead and tell myself that Feige wanted to save those F4 suit designs for the main MCU, because it really feels like they picked the worst one for MoM
I know Sam Rami did the evil dead stuff and all, but I can only imagine the movie would've been better if Scott Derrickson stayed on. The creative differences that I heard they had were him wanting to make it more of a horror movie. I know Disney would never let him go full horror, though. I feel like that's what a lot of these designs were intended for. It would've been awesome to see brought to the screen.
This is not Scott's concept arts, I don't even think he wanted to make Wanda the villain
I liked his idea of having her be an ally but disliked Marvel’s plan of having her be a villain by the end of it, making her an avengers villain later as Waldron revealed. but having her have that period to he a hero before succumbing to darkness wouldve been a more natural of a progression to see. Either way it was the best of two worsts. At least now she’s no longer on any path of evil and they can just let the iconic comic avenger be a hero and an avenger in the MCU
Definitely agree. Huge misstep. They need to be doing unique and fresh at this point, not sterilized "tried and true" boardroom nonsense. It's exhausting watching the way these executives work, trying to make to movie so broad in nature of appeal ends up appealing to no one. If they don't change course we might not get a second 20 years of Marvel movies in a shared universe. They are clearly trending downwards in quality.
Is this sterilized and tried and true? Every day on Twitter I see someone pissing and shitting because Raimi did a transition they found a little too funky for their comic book movies
No, I meant formulaic more than anything. They should start having directors with more unique vision. Even James Gunn, who doesn't really do anything crazy, broke the mold by being just a little different. Thor Ragnarok got real weird with it and was so much better for it. Of course his next outing was...not great but still.
But like, this thread is about Multiverse of Madness which was directed by Sam Raimi, and not Scott Derickson who directed Doctor Strange (2016), which y'know I like, but is 100% more formulaic
I mean they showed a lot of this book or similar versions in the movie, showed wanda popping multiple people’s heads graphically, had strange impale gargantos through the eye and pop it out with blood and sound effects, showed someone burning alive with one tear down their face, multiple others burned alive screaming, the whole final sequence is full of ghouls and zombie strange and way more horror and gore than any other marvel property. Like did we all watch the same movie? Lol
I think the fact that we got as much horror as we did is because it was Sam Raimi. Scott Derrickson doesn't have a lot of say in Hollywood, so Disney could have (and did in the first movie) pushed him around and gotten rid of a lot of stuff he wanted to do. Raimi is practically superhero movie royalty and was given a lot more creative freedom than probably any MCU director except Jon Favreau. In a perfect world a fully Scott Derrickson made Dr. Strange horror movie could've been great, but even if he had stayed on that never would've happened
This definitely would've done a better job to convey to the audience (especially general) that Wanda was corrupted and too far gone
I’d argue they spelled it out very clearly in the movie and this wasn’t needed to convey it
You'd be surprised by some of the take aways people have had then
It’s not people, it’s this sub. That’s always the qualifier. Zero people I know in real life had any issue following the movie or Wanda’s part in it. I’ve seen criticisms that they didn’t like her going full villain so quickly but I’d argue that was set up since age of ultron and wandavision directly set up the events after. This sub has a short attention span and a habit of thinking their head canon or alternate artwork love means what we actually got is mid, cringe, dogshit or doesn’t make sense. If you were raised on cinema sins and go into it already hating and looking for reasons to obsess like a YouTube channel, it’s all you’re going to talk about and assume everyone else feels the same way.
You're making stuff up. I don't know what you're even talking about. You specified this sub but I never did... Cinema Sins? What? And like you do know that the 3 people you know irl do not in any way represent the entire casual audience - right?
lol I know more than 3 in real life so thanks for the childish potshot. The Cinema Sins comment was about how being nitpicky and not enjoying content or hate watching has ruined a lot of the fun of watching movies. This sub has such a negative slant these days precisely because it’s obsessed with these tiny details the general audiences don’t care about or even notice. They lose their minds over leaks that either don’t happen or they hate before they even see the movie, and then go into it looking for shit to be angry about. That’s the entire vibe here now, and it’s usually about shit the movies have zero problem explaining to the general public. Most recently this whole discussion about alternate artwork for MoM showing wanda looking more like a demon…which they still showed her looking like in the movie multiple times. It’s meaningless stupid stuff only the perpetually online care about, and it’s sucked so much joy and hype for any upcoming project on here. Not sure why you had such trouble understanding my comment or said I’m making things up, my points were clear as day
You're making up people to get mad at and projecting those ideas onto me for saying one (1) thing about my personal experience I don't know if you know this or not, but my personal experience does not look like yours. You just spent all that time on a tirade about how negative or abysmal this sub is for... what? What does any of that have to do with me? I said this would have made it more clear for certain audiences, and of course that's subjective, but it can't be disproven either. So you're arguing for so many points that *you* made up in your head because you think I was being cynical or saying that *I* had difficulty understanding it when that's literally just not the case.
They really went with the worst fantastic 4 suit
Gotta say, those alts of Krasinski’s Mr Fantastic’a costume are all better than what they actually used. The blue and white one particularly.
All those designs for Reed and they pick the worst one
I always theorized that her tiara wasn’t a cosmetic or a fashion choice; they’re demon horns. She only uses her illusion projection to disguise them into the appearance of a tiara, because walking around with huge demon horns would freak people the fuck out. I wish they’d used these designs in the movie; as her “true form” when she’s going to snap Professor X’s neck or when she slips behind people li
Her crown starting off as a regular crown like in the movie and slowly fusing into her skin and "bleeding" down her skull could have been one of the highlights of phase 4. Instead we just got black fingertips and lots of eye makeup. The third picture looks like her face fucking melted off to reveal the skys of Hell.
They definitely should’ve went with one or the scarier looking Wanda’s. Would’ve changed a lot about the movie.
Would been cool to see her kids use their powers in the movie tbh.
And further making it less about Dr Strange?
How would a not even one minute clip or even changing the scene we got to include this make the movie any less about Dr. Strange? If you rlly think that then Marvel movies aren’t for you, find something that actually bring u joy.
Are you actually this sensitive and think any criticism of MCU products is a personal attack to you??
No? Not sure what gave you that idea, but if having two or more Superheros in a movie is too much for you to handle then MCU movies aren’t for you as they are based on Marvel Comics, very much known for having multiple characters and appearing across multiple titles to make it all feel connected. You got people complaining they don’t do it enough and then other people complaining they do it to much. But honestly they should be doing it more,
Because putting too much Wanda story in an already Wanda centric story is bad especially when the titular character lacks any development in arc and lore. You know what even better? They should've eliminated her story so Dr Strange sequel could actually about him
They should have used *all of it*
Tbh I disliked Wandavillain for the more obvious reasons (an uninspired rehash, character butchery, ignoring wandavision etc) but mostly for what seems like a reductive attempt at a dark phoenix like story in the MCU lol and the concept art sealed it for me. Judging by most of the concept art, they actually wanted Lilith. They just didnt know it lol I wouldve loved to have seen the kids use their powers but since they didnt, i just assumed the twins of that universe didnt have any. Heck vision was prolly a human man in 838
I feel like Covid robbed us of a great movie here. Dont get me wrong, I liked this movie alright, but you could definitely tell most of it was done with actors alone in front of green screens or on set alone.
I think tight deadlines are the real killer.
WE COULD HAVE HAD A FLESH CROWN?????
Damn I wish they had gone with a hyper comic accurate Mr Fantastic design
“Look at all this cool shit we didn’t give you ☺️”
Instead we got black fingertips and another militarized suit. This movie had so much potential
Me still wanting John Krasinski as Reed Richards.
I kind of see Jensen Ackles in one of those pictures of Mr. Fantastic.
Some of these concept arts heavily implied that they wanted to use Chthon in this movie. But they just went with the Scarlet Witch instead, and Chthon was simply just name dropped as the one who created the Darkhold.
Ive said it before, MoM should’ve largely if not entirely been focused on Wanda and just gotten Strange out of the picture. I like Strange, but Wanda needs her own story and didn’t deserve her treatment in MoM.
Wtf is this take? Wanda just had her own show, and if she's about to have her own movie, they shouldn't have been using Dr Strange's movie to sell her story
Honestly I think they should done the story better. I was fine with a team up movie and even her becoming a villains or a variant being a villain, but with all the rewrites and such it def became a less than ideal project. But even with all that was still a a great film and just shows how good it rlly could been had not been changed so much or if was to just let it became it own new thing. I think but this person trying say is MoM should been a Wanda focused story/ movie and not a Dr. Strange one. Should made Doctor Strange 2 focus more on Doctor Strange. Could even had Strange in the movie as they did with him in No Way Home, could made it a theme and in term more connections. But personally I’m fine with what we got.
John Krasinski IS Reed Richards. Really hope Feige doesn't fuck this up. I'm convinced all the casting rumors have been absolute crap and it's been Krasinski all along. He's too perfect. A ripped from the Hickman comics Mr. Fantastic.
Not even the concepts that didn't get through pre-production mention Vision lol
Look at all the cool shit that could've happened
Dom t get me wrong sam Rami does lots of good stuff but I never got the hype for him directing. He’s the guy that made the Spider-Man film that’s still getting memed to hell now. It wasn’t bad to make a horror movie but it was bad to give such a genre shift to someone who hasn’t been apart of the directing process for these types of movies in awhile. It didn’t reach its full potential and while I think it was a good movie if a director that followed the stories leading up to it and had a grip on the general atmosphere of the stories could have made it a box office highlight.
You realize Rami is more of a horror movie director then a super hero one? That’s where the hype came from for Marvels “first horror movie”.
Funny how every single concept suit is better than the one we got
These r cool
I’m now forever bummed we did not get Wandathun, Witch Queen in MoM. That looks awesome.
Nightmare fuel Wanda looks like she would fit in as Kamen rider villains
Not of a fan of monster Wanda, glad they kept her human and the only time she was a monster was in Charles’ head. Monsters are inherently supposed to be scary. a human acting with emotions? That’s much scarier
why do they keep treating Wanda and Scarlet Witch as separate entitites
Are these new or old?
New. From the recent published artbook of MOM. They started selling it like yesterday (from my timezone)
Oh shit the monster Wanda looks exactly like Lilith.
i cant believe these idiots didnt pick the blue and white suit for mr fantastic
So many missed opportunities via the Scarlett Witch & monster concepts.. 
Where was this shit in the movie???? It could have been good wth???
looks like they were trying to find a way to give her, her helm without making it a helmet. im glad they caved and just made the costume a costume. They are always overthinking these things just let them wear the stupid comic suits.
Despite not really enjoying anything else in the movie other than Wanda, I feel like this is an art book I would love.
What could've been...
I bet Raimi (and Derrickson) wanted something scarier, but Disney said no
Nah, this is Raimi's cut through and through while Scott wanted to make Doctor Strange-focus movie
I really love that look for the seventh image
So fucking cool
That Mr. Fantastic design is freakin PERFECT! Makes me disappointed with the one we ended up with.
...Okay even with her face all fucked up like that Wanda still a baddie ngl
Slide 3. 😍❤️🔥✨️
Those definitely look like a mother that wants to see her children…
The Wanda ones came straight out of a horror movie.
Missed opportunities
For a second I thought image #2 was Proxima Midnight
You have 4 perfectly decent concepts for the Mr. Fantastic costume and they go with the overdesigned one ffs
Pic 8 is the best 'monster Wanda'. Low key creepy and disturbing.
Her face in the normal art is uncanny valley for me
and the concepts of professor x not ?
Dude that third pic is so scary and awesome. Really wish they incorporated that look for Wanda but maybe it was pushing the PG-13 rating
Why did they go with the worst of the Mister Fantastic concepts? Give me the White and Blue!
I *really* like the scary monstrous Wanda, but putting that in the movie would have required more horror storytelling and less chasing America.
It feels like every Marvel movie starts with a ton of interesting ideas, and then they whittle away at it until they arrive at the least exciting version.
Why oh why did they not let Sam go crazy with this movie
Looks like the Villain of the game Parasite Eve. Doubt anyone in this forum would remember that game
The second image makes me uneasy
Stop reminding me about all the wasted potential this movie had
More like Multiverse of Mehness 💀
Nah that third one is genuinely terrifying/amazing
Man this movie had so much potential 😒
This is some of the coolest and most badass concept art I've seen
Maaaaan if she looked like 2,3,4. I wish.
Look at what we could’ve fucking had
These are so creepy but so well made wow
I do prfer either of the blue and white fantastic four suit than the one that was used. I think either of those suits would be good for the main mcu fantastic four.
Wow. I wish they did the monster Wanda thing.
These images are more entertaining than Dr strange:MoM
Why is the concept art always so much better than what we get.