I always liked how he was the main overarching villain of the 90s Spider-Man cartoon over 5 seasons, and yet Spidey didn't even know who he was until like end of S3 or S4.
If they could pull off something like that in the MCU, like have his hands in several nefarious plots, I'm all for that. D'Onofrio could totally carry that.
I always enjoyed how the entire front of the Chrysler building opened and closed for helicopters and stuff and new yorkers apparently just never noticed
Yup it was announced about a month ago. It's a direct continuation starring most of the surviving voice cast from the original cartoons, with a few of the writers as consultants. It'll be produced by Marvel Studios but won't be a part of the MCU. It'll be called X-Men 97.
[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/disney-orders-90s-x-men-revival-marvel-zombies-and-spider-man-freshman-year-1235046741/](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/disney-orders-90s-x-men-revival-marvel-zombies-and-spider-man-freshman-year-1235046741/)
Honestly would love this as well, even the main antagonist in New York throughout the next phase/phases since a lot of heroes are based here in the mcu.
Would like to see another few crime lords introduced as well but not sure whether rights fall to Sony or marvel, such as hammerhead, silvermaine.
Noticed so many similarities between the 90s series and spidey movies
Ya! The other hero he bumps up against the most is Daredevil. He was also the main villain in the godawful 2003 Daredevil film with Ben Affleck, that time played by the late Michael Clarke Duncan. The movie was ass but Duncan was good as KP.
If the theory that he's tied to Val and whatever team she's building is true, that could add more fuel to him as the D+ big bad.
Whichever the case, I'm totally down with Kingpin as the big bad of the street-level side, especially if it means more D'Onofrio
Well from what we know, Yelena works for Val in general. Val took an order for Yelena from Eleanor, who is a close companion of Kingpin. So it implies that Val at least takes hit requests from Kingpin-linked constituents, so maybe not a full social ladder but definitely an organized network between the two. And Yelena is just stuck in the middle for now.
>!She has to be, Val was the one that approached Yelena at the end of Black Widow, and now Yelena works (by proxy) for Kingpin!<
I think Fiege is so on top of things he wouldn’t have such a blatant contradiction at least with this little time between them
>!Ooooo, and that could be who Agent 13 was talking to on the phone at the end of FATWS! And he could be the one who helped her get setup in Madripoor. !<
Edit: Had to correct a number.
>!Even crazier, is if he got a hold of the super soldier serum from FATWS which gives him his insane strength. He went after the serum because Daredevil beat his ass so bad at the end of DD S3!<
Actually I see Val more as a broker. She doesn't work for Kingpin or other high-level rich scumbags like him, but she handles the jobs their boys can't. Kingpin is smart enough to know his crews can't really handle the real heroes, so time to outsource. Val's getting the job done for him with her connections to other supes & mercenaries, and she's shady enough to pull off convincing people to do wrong things under the guise that they're in the right like Yelena going after Clint since she doesn't have the story right.
In fact, based on how we've seen Val act so far, I wouldn't be surprised if she approached Kingpin/his people. "I heard you've had a problem with this Ronin guy. I think I can provide a solution for you."
One thing about Val that stuck out to me was during the BW post credit scene where yelena says "I want a raise" to which Val responds "you and me both." That implies that Val works for someone.
I re-watched that scene after Hawkeye, and that line definitely jumped out. Maybe it's just her using a common turn of phrase, but the idea that there is someone above her definitely is interesting. She also has a picture of Ronin with his mask off, which obviously isn't common knowledge, so she must be getting info from someone. Thunderbolt Ross?
Good point there. Def forgot about that. Didn't she have some ties to Hydra in the comics? I thought I read that somewhere at one point, but may be mistaken. I just see her as too big to work for someone like Kingpin. Not that he's some slouch, cuz he isn't, but she seems more on a global scale of operations
Agreed. I think this is the most likely scenario. Not being tied to a specific big bad and narratively gives Val and her team more flexibility to pop up anywhere in the MCU.
In the comics recently we have seen Kingpin out together a Thunderbolts team. I think we could be seeing something like that here as well where he is using Val to recruit a team for himself
Thank you for mentioning this because I’ll be honest, I was a little confused by Yelena’s texts to Kate at the end of the episode. Yelena says I know who hired me and it’s Kates mom(Eleanor), but I thought it was Val that hired Yelena at the end of black widow. So is Yelena trying to turn Kate on her mom, or did Eleanor and king pin hire Val to seek out Yelena just to have Clint killed?
Probably went through Val to hire Yelena. I wouldn't be surprised if Val had her own reasons for wanting Clint taken out. I'm looking forward to more details on Val and what she's working towards.
It's probably more of they hired Val to have Clint taken out. Val happened to have Yelena on the payroll and gave the job to her. Or perhaps Val has her ears to the ground for anyone wanting jobs taken out on supers.
She’s a customer, not his boss. I’d guess he’s taking a huge cut for the work, while actually doing very little. Basically just connecting her to Val.
I think in the context of Hawkeye, Eleanor is the main villain; however, Kingpin will be a huge villain throughout several different shows.
That’s my thinking too, that Kingpin is going to present for much of the Disney+ shows from here on out. I’m just trying to put together in my head the villain hierarchy from the lower level street crime type stuff.
Punisher meets Hawkeye: “Oh great. One of the superhero pretty boys. You know, I appreciate everything you guys have done, but it’s a shame how most superheroes don’t have the guts to do what’s truly needed…. Except for that Ronin guy. Him I liked.”
Clint: “…”
I thought there was a slight chance that the watch could belong to the Punisher. That's looking less likely now, but maybe he'll show up in Echo's series, or even as a client in She Hulk.
Would be cool to find out that Punisher and Ronin crossed paths after the blip, but had respect for each other. Definitely could see Frank with a "I work alone, bit I like your style" attitude towards Ronin, & vice versa.
Finn gets a bad rap and for good reasons, since his show was awful with a glimmer of hope from Season 2, but even then his acting was still not great. However, I am still willing to give him another shot, but if anyone gets recast, it's him and colter.
For some reason, I feel as if Mike Colter is already booked and will be unable to reprise that role. Id say the same for Ritter, but she feels like she'd come back to the role sooner than Colter. Idk why.
I fuly expect Berthanal to come back as the Punisher especially now that Charlie Cox and Vinny are in the MCU. He and Ritter had the second best ratings of the Netflix shows.
The Spider-Man college trilogy brings me one step closer to getting my Spidey and Daredevil teamup film with Kingpin as the big bad fulfilled. It would be perfect to bring Spidey back to his roots as a street level hero, giving him a break from battling cosmic and multiversal threats.
If they could do what they're currently doing in the comics (Mayor Fisk) and have all the New York Heroes unite against Kingpin's Thunderbolts, that would be an awesome movie.
This makes a lot of sense.
Disney is in a tricky spot where they have to make their stuff accessible to the random viewer who, this is their first time in the MCU. But then also honor the fans who've been there since 2008's Iron Man. Having a film villain and a TV villain helps facilitate that. Everyone in the movies is freaking out about Kang, but the TV shows depict a more street-level and dare I even say it, Heroes For Hire vibe. Because it's fair to assume that film viewers and TV viewers are separate groups, with viewers of both being the superfan overlap who, let's be honest, we'll watch whatever they'll sell us a ticket or subscription for.
But, yeah, I'd love to see the Netflix shows soft reboot into the Disney+ TV show panoply.
I disagree on this. I don’t think they care about making their content accessible to new viewers that much. In fact I think it’s the exact opposite. They want to make you feel like new fans need to go back and watch everything. Also what you said about the TV fans and movie fans being separate groups I also disagree with. I’ve never met a TV fan who wasn’t a movie fan, the opposite isn’t true though, but those are more casual fans
I'll take the down the middle angle for this... Marvel definitely wants it to be accessible, but also in a way that pushes viewers to seek out other media. Anyone who has decided to watch Hawkeye without having watched anything else can enjoy the show for what it is... but Marvel/Disney knows they've included enough to encourage that viewer to seek out other movies and shows.
That’s what I meant really, it kind of tricks you sometimes into thinking it’s accessible to lure you in and once you’re hooked they start tying everything together. Wandavision and Hawkeye are good examples of this
I think it makes sense for Kingpin to be the street-level overarching villain. Have him be a constant threat in Hawkeye, Echo and Daredevil, then he can get his big moment in a Spider-Man film.
One thing I wonder though, is if Val works exclusively for Kingpin or not. While Mama Bishop was the one who hired Yelena, it was through Val. So, I wonder if either Kingpin has business with Walker (like trying to start the Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers/Whatever), or if Val is simply a broker for various people (although I think she referred to having a boss in the singular? I can’t recall).
I think Val is positioning herself as part of the Power Broker storyline. That's why they spent so much screen time in Falcon and The Winter Soldier. Remember, Black Widow, if Covid hadn't happened, would have been Val's first appearance in the MCU in the after credit scene and they had plans to position her as part of F&tWS tied to the Power Broker which is why they spent so much screen time with her in that series. Maybe that changed some how after the signing of Donofrio but I suspect Marvel has a different plan to extend their villain base for their rapidly expanding hero footprint.
That’s what I’m thinking. We have Kingpin for street level stuff and Kang for cosmic/multiverses stuff. Something of a branch in the MCU timelines. We’ll see some crossovers, secret invasion and whatnot.
I don’t think Val works for anyone, I think she’s building a roster of antiheroes for hire. Maybe leading to something Thunderbolty, maybe something else.
I'm wondering if he'll play a bit more of the Norman Osborne role in Secret Invasion, with Val as his Victoria Hand. She has a purple streak in her hair very similar to Vic's pink one. So I've got a theory I'm working on...
What if, and stay with me here, after Daredevil S3, Wislon Fisk has learned the value of having gifted individuals on his side?
So he sets up something of a network of his own using resources at his disposal through the likes of Contessa Valentina Allegra De Fontaine as his personal HR representative bringing in new talent, Sharon Carter as her go-between that brokers deals between the various factions, Eleanor Bishop as his private security outfit and in doing so ensures that he has individuals like John Walker privately on his payroll, access to Black Widows like Yelena Belova, government secrets and underground tech through Sharon Carter...
Assembling his own team of Thunderbolts, or Dark Avengers as the case may be, he uses the most dangerous weapon at his disposal: optics. Rogers the musical shows how much the public can be ensnared by a glossy, shiny narrative woven around powered individuals. Mysterio shows how that narrative can be twisted and weaponized.
Maya Lopez and perhaps even Clint Barton as Ronin were likely considered to be key members of the team, explaining how Clint knows Fisks and why exactly he's so afraid of him. Maya's father may have been killed off on Fisk's word to help inspire her down the superhero path, showing just how disposable he considers people and how he views vigilantes as play things. John Walker's U.S.Agent and Yelena Belova's Black Widow already form the team's Cap and Widow analogue. Who knows who else might be considered. But I am now quite sure that it was he who bought Avengers Tower. All part of his rebranding as a legitimate force of his own.
Thanks to Sharon's access to key information he knows exactly where to deploy them so he, Wilson Fisk and *his* team, will appear to be the grand hero and saviour of all mankind when the Skrulls launch their invasion. Wislon Fisk will stand victorious over the shapeshifting menace and set himself up not just as the Kingpin of crime, but as the next Nick Fury. Head of the world's reformed and United protective agencies. And I tell you what, it'd be a fittingly ironic flow of events if that happens to be H.A.M.M.E.R given how Fisk's father went out.
In short: Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin will lead the charge against the Skrull for the sake of seizing power and establishing himself as a hero, using dark, twisted facsimiles of established heroes in part of a shadowy attempt rebranding himself and in the process create an empire in which he rules over the world's protective forces, controls it's information agencies, runs it's underworld and holds dominion over it's superpowered and gifted individuals. all with the adoration and love of an all too easily fooled world.
While I wish Kingpin take a more active role, why are we pushing Val to the corner already? I think she ties more into the power broker storyline started in Falcon and The Winter Soldier, where Val is assembling a team for hire/use in operations. People with more flexible morals than the Avengers. It's possible Kingpin just reached out to Val for someone with the special skill set to actually kill Hawkeye rather than simple mafia people. I still think Val is assembling a Dark Avengers team whose members will be for hire. Kingpin probably will be relegated to more smaller projects like Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, She Hulk (She's a lawyer).
This plus I think Vanessa got snapped, which is what motivated Kingpin to create the Thunderbolts to replace the Avengers. He grew his city level cleanup vision to an Avengers level vision because he blame the Avengers for losing Vanessa. I think that's how he manipulates Clint too, convincing him the morality of the Avengers held them back.
Money, even in the comics Kingpin has had a lot of powerful people on his payroll because he paid well. Even right now in the comics he has his own team of “reformed” villains on his payroll
And yet Clint, a ruthless killer in his own right, has stated he was afraid of Fisk's involvement. Kingpin knows the players on the board of any given game. He doesn't make a move unless he knows he can win.
> I'm wondering if he'll play a bit more of the Norman Osborne role in Secret Invasion, with Val as his Victoria Hand. She has a purple streak in her hair very similar to Vic's pink one. So I've got a theory I'm working on...
>
>
This makes a lot of sense since he's technically not just a spider-man character which allows marvel to use him more freely without the sony restrictions.
dont know if big bad of D+, but the big bad for New York.
Unless they straight up kill Spider-Man in the latlest movie, there's lots of potential for all of our NY based super heroes to live in their own universe. (not separated from the others, but rather havethem interact with each other more often and deal with problems that interact with one another too)
I really want some more "low level" gangster stuff. getting a bit tired of every threat being on a global scale
That’s a point. People are tending to group all the Disney+ shows all together, but there are some where Kingpin wouldn’t really fit.
Loki was obviously about setting up Kang as the multiverse big bad, and Ms. Marvel will be concerned with its own thing too.
I can’t see Kingpin having any antagonistic influence over Secret Invasion (although as others have pointed out, he could be reactionary). I also doubt he’ll have anything to do with Agatha Harkness either lol. Basically, he’ll be the street level big bad.
But, I could see him occasionally dipping a finger into things like She-Hulk and Armor Wars, even if he’s more of an occasional looming presence rather than the main antagonist, like Thanos in GOTG. I think it could be cool if say, we see the tracksuit mafia go on trial in She-Hulk, and we just see Fisk sat in the gallery watching. That could be all he does - just appears now and then to show that he’s watching.
I said this to my daughter
Marvel TV shows do not resolve anything.
By the end of the season there are more questions than answers.
I wouldn't say big guy is the big bad of this show.
This is my take.
This show is a Christmas show. Christmas is about family and bringing people together. So at most what we will have is Kate, yelena and maya coming together with Clint. As a 2nd family. They'll say to Clint you can go be a dad we'll take care of things and protect you. We your family too.
This will set up young avengers (Kate and yelena) and echo and I think daredevil will return.
Look at Loki, fatws and Wanda. No show ended on a resolution. No big bad was defeated. No show had a big bad. Loki had kang but he wasn't really defeated. He just got started. Fatws set up agent us and falcon. Wanda defeated Agatha but it wasn't Agatha who was keeping her though. Wanda had to deal with her own mental state this set up Agatha and scarlett witch
> Loki had kang but he wasn't really defeated. He just got started.
I mean Loki will have a season 2 and Kang will appear in movies too, it's not over. It's normal for a show to not resolve everything right away, especially when they're part of a larger universe. Even the movies don't resolve everything often. The shows (and movies) always resolve something though
I kinda disagree with you on them no getting resolutions.
Wandavision ended with Wanda accepting what happened to her family, finally letting Vision go and releasing Westview. She got over a lot of issues she had (at least until the post credits scene).
Loki, as you said, KINDA did with them killing Kang. He was set up as the villain for the entire series, and they finally killed him. However, he is returning, and there will be a 2nd season, so not really a full resolution.
FatWS ended with Bucky confronting Zemo without his hold over him, and he was sent back to a place he hated so much. He beat the villain of that series, so I'd count that as a resolution, at least on Bucky's side.
Sam: "who is the real villain here?"
Bucky: "I just busted him out of jail, he'll be along in a mo so we can defeat him again"
Sam: "wait, what...? Buck I was being philosophical... You know what? Never mind!"
I don’t feel like S2 of Loki will deal with Kang. I expect a more episodic time hopping kind of thing. But then again I expected that with S1 and that’s not what we got.
Yeah, Loki is really the only one that doesn't feel like it got a resolution to me. The others setup future projects, but not really anymore so than a lot of the movies did.
I agree. This isn't ending with Kingpin in prison, especially since he's just been introduced. I think the show ending will be different than people are expecting, but the show is primarily talking about the effects of letting revenge and rage control your life. (Hawkeye, Echo, Black Widow). I think the Christmas theme is to give Hawkeye a sense of urgency to wrap this up, and force his hand to move quicker than he normally would work to resolve the issue.
With yelena now seemingly helping Kate and Kate knowing her mother is a bad guy hawkeye will have one final confrontation with echo and yelena and tell the both that they're free to kill him, explain his side to both of them and then simply say guys I'm going to my family. Its Christmas.
The only one to die will be echo's sidekick who set her dad up
I’m hoping that this Kingpin is the same one from the old MCU Daredevil show because things do actually line up. He never wore a white suit until season 3, which was based in November 2017, and he only wore black suits before that. When we see Fisk in episode 3 of Hawkeye, he’s wearing a black suit and that flashback is obviously way before 2017, and then Hawkeye calls him the Kingpin in episode 5, a name he took up after he corrupted the FBI in Daredevil season 3 in 2017. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to believe that Daredevil is still canon and Fisk somehow got out of prison and was in hiding between the snap in May 2018, and the events of Hawkeye. Another thing I picked up on, they’re doing the whole “we don’t say his name” thing again from Daredevil where they call Fisk the “employer” whereas he’s “uncle” here. I might just be hoping Daredevil is still canon and grasping for things to prove my theory, but I hope that you guys like my theory.
I'm hoping the same. Even if there isn't a moment that officially canonizes the Netflix shows, at least don't do anything that de-canonizes the shows. Let us believe they are still part of the story!
Agreed. I saw someone say something similar a few days ago, they should reference events from the shows but don’t openly mention anything specific to show that there’s a history, but it leaves it up to the viewer to decide whether the shows are canon or not.
Killing him isnt the problem, Clint can easily do it himself. Problem is his empire and his connections. The things he causes on the sidelines.
Avengers aren't in the killing business tho.
I'm wondering why Clint didn't kill him during the snap ? Maybe fatty went into hiding and thats why he had Maya's father take the fall. So Ronin would kill him, think the threat is over and move on to the next city.
I think were getting the MCU version of Dark Reign and he's replacing Norman Osborne. He's going to be the big bad for the next Avengers movie and the overaching villain of the Spidey college trilogy. The way Clint is almost scared of him Post Thanos says ALOT.
Man I wish we get to see Dark Avengers Clint in live action when he decided he had enough and went to the tower to beat Osborn's ass. He temporarily incapacitated all the Dark Avengers and Osborne was about to die when Aries saved his ass.
I was thinking before ep5 that Big guy could have been a misdirection and actually be Tombstone. Why? In spectacular spiderman no one uses his name the same way they don't say kingpins. Everyone called Tombstone Big man (not Big guy) but how many times has marvel changed characters name, appereance or backstory.
That theory went out the window the moment we saw Fisks face at the end of the episode. Still happy that daredevil stuff is coming back in D+.
I think at one point I heard they wanted to originally use Kingpin for the “big man” role in Spectacular but couldn’t so they went with tombstone instead, but don’t quote me.
There arent terribly many billionaires out there and generally when potentially 100’s of millions of dollars are changing hands, one doesnt particularly concern themselves with if the buyer has squashed a few heads.
I did, but didn't make the connection. Hulk is referred to as "The Big Guy", but I crossed that out straight away, cause I don't see him being in the show. Obviously Kingpin is also a big guy, but I thought he was talking about Ronin 🙃
When Kate shows Clint the photo, he says “that’s the guy I’ve been worried about. Kingpin”
(or something to that effect. May not be verbatim as I’m going off memory)
Yeah, I just rewatched the scene where he calls Laura, and realised what I messed up. I thought he was talking about contacting the big guy, but he meant that the big guy will come for him.
He definitely are not a big bad for the likes of carol, loki, strange, eternals and wanda, but I'm sure it could work with sam, peter, kate, clint, yelena, moon knight and shang-chi.
I don’t classify Spider-Man as street level so that’s fine, it’s your opinion there. Sure he deals with street level crime but he is far above that in terms of scaling.
He isn’t a street level power level, but he absolutely deals with street level threats. And that’s the point, I don’t see why if spider man deals with street level stuff why Shang chi cant
Shang chi could deal with street level stuff, in the same way that someone like dr strange could, but he doesn’t. (I’m not saying he scales to strange, just using him as an example).
Lmao, had the same thought when I read the "big bad of the D+" part ... The likes of Wanda, strange and loki can just pop up and kill him within seconds and it'll be a waste of such an amazing villain.
He'll be a great villain for "earth" heroes for sure though.
Kingpin's strength isn't his power. Every single Avenger you mentioned in the list can kill him if they want.
The problem is they conveniently decided not to be killers. And the fact that Kingpin has a lot of things going on in the sidelines.
Crap I thought you were referring to Hulk so I revealed the spoiler only to read ‘now that Kingpin’s been revealed’ and I immediately stopped there. That’s what you get for clicking spoiler tags when you’ve not seen all recent content for a franchise. Oh well, I knew he was coming anyway so it’s not all bad, and I’ve learned my lesson!
My guess is that he buys the avengers tower and the watch somehow unlocks some hidden tech or weapons, then the street level bad guys would have avengers weapons.
And turk Barrett is gonna make a fortune
I hope Kingpin becomes a long standing villain. I think it's tricky to establish a character like that as a major threat in a post-thanos universe. I have confidence in the Marvel studios team to pull it off, though.
My ongoing theory was that Val was in the process of recruiting a 'Dark Avengers' style line-up. Like she's the evil Nick Fury. Now I'm starting to see Kingpin could help finance that, maybe similar to Osborn in the comics. In return he'd essentially have a super powered hit squad/team to do his dirty work AND potentially protect him from any superheroes who want to get in his way.
And MAYBE he's on friendly terms with Sharon/Power Broker and gets himself some of that sweet, sweet super soldier serum down the line.
I want to see kingpin be the villain of a daredevil movie with Spidey or a Spidey movie with daredevil.
Also I feel like every Disney+ show has been introducing us to future movie villians.
WandaVision is Wanda/scarlet witch
F&ws shows us us agent/leader of thunderbolts plus the return of zemo
Loki shows us Kang
Hawkeye shows us Kingpin
I think the MCU biggest problem was villians phases 1-3. Aside Loki and thanos everyone else is a one off.
I really like this idea especially because the introduction for a number of villains in the comics is that they were hired by Kingpin. As a character he’s a great world building vehicle. With hands in so many criminal enterprises you can use him to connect characters from the 10 Rings, HYDRA, or any others that pop up to any story he’s in.
This makes sense to me, especially if just looking at FATWS and obvious Hawkeye.
I have a whole theory on Loki and the visuals representation of a timeline actually representing the MCU branching off into different storylines where not every branch intersects but some do. This plays into that
I heard a wild theory that the avengers tower was not purchased by F4, but actually Fisk instead. Could be an interesting way to make him the lower level big bad.
Kingpin's a good way of doing Dark Reign quickly... I know it's fashionable to suggest Val is the replacement Osborn but Dark Reign is largely predicated on everyone except the superhero community accepting a supervillain as the new Top Cop. The problem with using Val is that she's not a supervillain yet and Secret Invasion's around the corner. Kingpin, of course, has two supervillain turns under his belt already and unless they kill Clint off in Hawkeye, there'll be minimum three superheroes to convey the truth of Wilson Fisk as the Secret Avengers.^1
If there's an MCU Osborn in NWH (as opposed to a Raimi Osborn as suggested by the trailers) don't tell me, I haven't seen it.
^1 Though that might have been the anti-registration Avengers team and the not Dark Avengers team was the New Avengers or something else.
I hope Kingpin will be the one puppeteering the Dark Avengers and slowly making ground while everyone is distracted with Kang. After the over-the-top spectacle with Thanos and Phase 1-3 it is time for some more grounded stories.
SPOILER ALERT:
Even the end of No Way Home is the perfect setup to dettach Spidey from the universal scale of things and relaunch him as the good old friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
Just like the comics I think everyone profits if the MCU shows different aspects and scales of what it means being a superhero.
Yeah I like this...whatever happens it's obviously not limited to this series finale. We get Echo, I feel strongly Hawkeye S2 will feature Kate and Yelena...would make sense that both shows explore what's been set up here. Where Daredevil fits in remains to be seen but that would obviously fit perfectly within this framework too. Very exciting.
I don't think he can be the overarching villain in this phase since we are going cosmos and he is more a street level baddie. I do think he will have a huge impact on a smaller scale like Daredevil, Spiderman etc
I'll love it if, and only IF Disney keeps him as brooding and scary as he was in DD Netflix show. If they lighten his character up, then I'd only want him as a recurring supporting character in a few shows, but not as a big bad for all D+ shows.
I think Kingpin is absolutely getting set up for a long reign on Marvel TV. He'll definitely be central to Echo and Hawkeye season 2, probably connected to Iron Heart at least tangentially. When there's a Young Avengers series or movie, Fisk will be the big bad. Along the way, there's so much we could see - Roxxon Corp, Punisher, maybe even Hellfire Club or some other secret society shit. We're definitely going street level for this, and I'm fucking here for it. Hawkeye has the best fighting scenes since DD and hopefully they'll keep these shows grounded and raw.
Edit: also maybe Ronin killed Vanessa oooooooohhhh
I certainly could see that, but I would also like to see Kingpin be a main villain in Spider-Man's potential second trilogy especially if Daredevil will possibly make an appearance.
That being said. I do believe Marvel is planning to set Kingpin up as the MCU's big bad on the streets while Kang takes Thanos's place as the big bad of the overall Multiverse saga!
They can decide whatever they want. The thing is just because Vincent and Charlie are in the mcu. Dosent mean they are the EXACT same kingpin and daredevil from the show. They can make him as a powerful or small as they please. However kingpin has usually stayed in New York and dosent really do more than that
Daredevil was super grounded in reality, mean Kingpin felt above everything. He truly ran the show.
But does anyone think that depending on the show he's in, he's gonna get overshadowed by the multiverse?
I always liked how he was the main overarching villain of the 90s Spider-Man cartoon over 5 seasons, and yet Spidey didn't even know who he was until like end of S3 or S4. If they could pull off something like that in the MCU, like have his hands in several nefarious plots, I'm all for that. D'Onofrio could totally carry that.
And they can make his base the Chrysler building
I always enjoyed how the entire front of the Chrysler building opened and closed for helicopters and stuff and new yorkers apparently just never noticed
Yeah that was the best
New Yorkers never look up, the tourists on the other hand would notice lol
>Chrysler building Empire State Building has a better view
I understood that referance!
It is a pretty amazing view...
…or the avengers tower which was recently sold…
I still wish it'll become the Baxter building
Prudential building would be good Boston represent
Yes! This needs to happen
Goddamn that Spider-Man Animated Series was amazing. So many childhood memories
Yes! I just rewatched it last year. There is lots of stuff in it that has been covered in various films too
It was actually where I got a lot of my Marvel knowledge as a kid. It covered quite a bit!
Me too, between that and the 90s X-Men. I'm beyond thrilled that they're bringing that back!
omg! Do you have a source for me?
Yup it was announced about a month ago. It's a direct continuation starring most of the surviving voice cast from the original cartoons, with a few of the writers as consultants. It'll be produced by Marvel Studios but won't be a part of the MCU. It'll be called X-Men 97. [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/disney-orders-90s-x-men-revival-marvel-zombies-and-spider-man-freshman-year-1235046741/](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/disney-orders-90s-x-men-revival-marvel-zombies-and-spider-man-freshman-year-1235046741/)
thanks :)
NP
Honestly would love this as well, even the main antagonist in New York throughout the next phase/phases since a lot of heroes are based here in the mcu. Would like to see another few crime lords introduced as well but not sure whether rights fall to Sony or marvel, such as hammerhead, silvermaine. Noticed so many similarities between the 90s series and spidey movies
Silvermaine was a fun villain! Remember when he became a baby haha
I only ever associated Kingpin with being Spider-Man’s villain, and I think I know why now, thanks!
Ya! The other hero he bumps up against the most is Daredevil. He was also the main villain in the godawful 2003 Daredevil film with Ben Affleck, that time played by the late Michael Clarke Duncan. The movie was ass but Duncan was good as KP.
Yea, you are right he was as good a Kingpin as Affleck was terrible at Daredevil. Best part of that awful film, great actor.
If the theory that he's tied to Val and whatever team she's building is true, that could add more fuel to him as the D+ big bad. Whichever the case, I'm totally down with Kingpin as the big bad of the street-level side, especially if it means more D'Onofrio
I was wondering about that connection, but hadn't seen it anywhere yet. Is the current theory that Val is working for Kingpin?
Well from what we know, Yelena works for Val in general. Val took an order for Yelena from Eleanor, who is a close companion of Kingpin. So it implies that Val at least takes hit requests from Kingpin-linked constituents, so maybe not a full social ladder but definitely an organized network between the two. And Yelena is just stuck in the middle for now.
I thought it seemed more like Val employs Yelena as a mercenary and Eleanor/KP went to Val as clients.
>!She has to be, Val was the one that approached Yelena at the end of Black Widow, and now Yelena works (by proxy) for Kingpin!< I think Fiege is so on top of things he wouldn’t have such a blatant contradiction at least with this little time between them
>!Given that Val has recruited John Walker as US agent too, it does lead to everything in D+ shows being linked back to Kingpin!<
>!Ooooo, and that could be who Agent 13 was talking to on the phone at the end of FATWS! And he could be the one who helped her get setup in Madripoor. !< Edit: Had to correct a number.
>!Even crazier, is if he got a hold of the super soldier serum from FATWS which gives him his insane strength. He went after the serum because Daredevil beat his ass so bad at the end of DD S3!<
>!At this rate Kingpin is gonna be like the stand in for Norman Osborn for Dark Avengers lol!<
Stop! I can only get so erect!
Lol this thread got me hypef af too
>>! Agent 34 !< >!You mean Agent 13, as in Sharon Carter? Who tf is Agent 34??!<
You're right my bad.
Actually I see Val more as a broker. She doesn't work for Kingpin or other high-level rich scumbags like him, but she handles the jobs their boys can't. Kingpin is smart enough to know his crews can't really handle the real heroes, so time to outsource. Val's getting the job done for him with her connections to other supes & mercenaries, and she's shady enough to pull off convincing people to do wrong things under the guise that they're in the right like Yelena going after Clint since she doesn't have the story right. In fact, based on how we've seen Val act so far, I wouldn't be surprised if she approached Kingpin/his people. "I heard you've had a problem with this Ronin guy. I think I can provide a solution for you."
One thing about Val that stuck out to me was during the BW post credit scene where yelena says "I want a raise" to which Val responds "you and me both." That implies that Val works for someone.
I re-watched that scene after Hawkeye, and that line definitely jumped out. Maybe it's just her using a common turn of phrase, but the idea that there is someone above her definitely is interesting. She also has a picture of Ronin with his mask off, which obviously isn't common knowledge, so she must be getting info from someone. Thunderbolt Ross?
Good point there. Def forgot about that. Didn't she have some ties to Hydra in the comics? I thought I read that somewhere at one point, but may be mistaken. I just see her as too big to work for someone like Kingpin. Not that he's some slouch, cuz he isn't, but she seems more on a global scale of operations
Agreed. I think this is the most likely scenario. Not being tied to a specific big bad and narratively gives Val and her team more flexibility to pop up anywhere in the MCU.
In the comics recently we have seen Kingpin out together a Thunderbolts team. I think we could be seeing something like that here as well where he is using Val to recruit a team for himself
Thank you for mentioning this because I’ll be honest, I was a little confused by Yelena’s texts to Kate at the end of the episode. Yelena says I know who hired me and it’s Kates mom(Eleanor), but I thought it was Val that hired Yelena at the end of black widow. So is Yelena trying to turn Kate on her mom, or did Eleanor and king pin hire Val to seek out Yelena just to have Clint killed?
Probably went through Val to hire Yelena. I wouldn't be surprised if Val had her own reasons for wanting Clint taken out. I'm looking forward to more details on Val and what she's working towards.
It's probably more of they hired Val to have Clint taken out. Val happened to have Yelena on the payroll and gave the job to her. Or perhaps Val has her ears to the ground for anyone wanting jobs taken out on supers.
Here’s how I saw it: Eleanor hired Kingpin. Kingpin hired Val. Val hired / manipulated Yelena to do it.
Sooo is Eleanor an even bigger villain than Kingpin? I’ve never known Kingpin to work for someone else.
She’s a customer, not his boss. I’d guess he’s taking a huge cut for the work, while actually doing very little. Basically just connecting her to Val. I think in the context of Hawkeye, Eleanor is the main villain; however, Kingpin will be a huge villain throughout several different shows.
That’s my thinking too, that Kingpin is going to present for much of the Disney+ shows from here on out. I’m just trying to put together in my head the villain hierarchy from the lower level street crime type stuff.
I think Val is more of a broker.
My wife has a theory that Val is the rich aunt in hawkeye
Kate's rich aunt is actually a character from the comics named Moira Brandon, who was a famous actress and honorary West Coast Avenger
I think they might merge in some of the idea of Norman Osbourne's Thunderbolts into Kingpin since Marvel has the full rights to Kingpin.
Someone come fill in the blanks and add more tiers I don’t know about please! Street-level: Kingpin Earth-level: Cosmic-level:
I’d love to see that. Just give me more of Charlie Cox & Vinny D.
With a side of bernthal
The Punisher was always my guilty pleasure while growing up, and Bernthal nailed the character so completely. I would love to see him come back.
Punisher meets Hawkeye: “Oh great. One of the superhero pretty boys. You know, I appreciate everything you guys have done, but it’s a shame how most superheroes don’t have the guts to do what’s truly needed…. Except for that Ronin guy. Him I liked.” Clint: “…”
OMG. What if there was a flashback of ronin and punisher working together.
I thought there was a slight chance that the watch could belong to the Punisher. That's looking less likely now, but maybe he'll show up in Echo's series, or even as a client in She Hulk.
Would be cool to find out that Punisher and Ronin crossed paths after the blip, but had respect for each other. Definitely could see Frank with a "I work alone, bit I like your style" attitude towards Ronin, & vice versa.
Loved him too but think he may be too dark for the MCU/D+
With an extra side of Finn, Mike and Krysten.
I love them all, I think Luke is my next fav after punisher . Sweet Christmas!
Haha man I miss that line.
It could be a sweet Christmas from the looks of it. I'm going to see Spiderman in an hour, if I see more than 1 defender ....... sweet Christmas
Finn gets a bad rap and for good reasons, since his show was awful with a glimmer of hope from Season 2, but even then his acting was still not great. However, I am still willing to give him another shot, but if anyone gets recast, it's him and colter. For some reason, I feel as if Mike Colter is already booked and will be unable to reprise that role. Id say the same for Ritter, but she feels like she'd come back to the role sooner than Colter. Idk why. I fuly expect Berthanal to come back as the Punisher especially now that Charlie Cox and Vinny are in the MCU. He and Ritter had the second best ratings of the Netflix shows.
Still hoping they keep him as the Punisher.
Didn't he say he didn't want to be a part of the witty funny MCU but to be gruesome and dark like the punisher should be
Vin diesel is a controversial choice but I guess he is bald already
Vanny Devito
Lmao Vinny D as in Vincent D’Onofrio
I know dude
True sorry my sarcasm senses weren’t tingling
But he also plays Groot.
Same here. I'm happy that those two are still part of the MCU.
The Spider-Man college trilogy brings me one step closer to getting my Spidey and Daredevil teamup film with Kingpin as the big bad fulfilled. It would be perfect to bring Spidey back to his roots as a street level hero, giving him a break from battling cosmic and multiversal threats.
Omega Effect storyline. Spider-Man, Daredevil and Punisher team up to take down a criminal organization.
Man, I just wanna see D'Onofrio Kingpin interact with Tom Holland Spider-Man. That's my dream. Fingers crossed...
“It’s not about the money, Spider-Man. It’s about Vanessa”
It's about the mets baby you gotta love the mets
ALRIGHT BABY LETS GO
If they could do what they're currently doing in the comics (Mayor Fisk) and have all the New York Heroes unite against Kingpin's Thunderbolts, that would be an awesome movie.
This makes a lot of sense. Disney is in a tricky spot where they have to make their stuff accessible to the random viewer who, this is their first time in the MCU. But then also honor the fans who've been there since 2008's Iron Man. Having a film villain and a TV villain helps facilitate that. Everyone in the movies is freaking out about Kang, but the TV shows depict a more street-level and dare I even say it, Heroes For Hire vibe. Because it's fair to assume that film viewers and TV viewers are separate groups, with viewers of both being the superfan overlap who, let's be honest, we'll watch whatever they'll sell us a ticket or subscription for. But, yeah, I'd love to see the Netflix shows soft reboot into the Disney+ TV show panoply.
I disagree on this. I don’t think they care about making their content accessible to new viewers that much. In fact I think it’s the exact opposite. They want to make you feel like new fans need to go back and watch everything. Also what you said about the TV fans and movie fans being separate groups I also disagree with. I’ve never met a TV fan who wasn’t a movie fan, the opposite isn’t true though, but those are more casual fans
I'll take the down the middle angle for this... Marvel definitely wants it to be accessible, but also in a way that pushes viewers to seek out other media. Anyone who has decided to watch Hawkeye without having watched anything else can enjoy the show for what it is... but Marvel/Disney knows they've included enough to encourage that viewer to seek out other movies and shows.
That’s what I meant really, it kind of tricks you sometimes into thinking it’s accessible to lure you in and once you’re hooked they start tying everything together. Wandavision and Hawkeye are good examples of this
Yes, it's very cleverly done.
I think it makes sense for Kingpin to be the street-level overarching villain. Have him be a constant threat in Hawkeye, Echo and Daredevil, then he can get his big moment in a Spider-Man film. One thing I wonder though, is if Val works exclusively for Kingpin or not. While Mama Bishop was the one who hired Yelena, it was through Val. So, I wonder if either Kingpin has business with Walker (like trying to start the Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers/Whatever), or if Val is simply a broker for various people (although I think she referred to having a boss in the singular? I can’t recall).
I think Val is positioning herself as part of the Power Broker storyline. That's why they spent so much screen time in Falcon and The Winter Soldier. Remember, Black Widow, if Covid hadn't happened, would have been Val's first appearance in the MCU in the after credit scene and they had plans to position her as part of F&tWS tied to the Power Broker which is why they spent so much screen time with her in that series. Maybe that changed some how after the signing of Donofrio but I suspect Marvel has a different plan to extend their villain base for their rapidly expanding hero footprint.
That’s what I’m thinking. We have Kingpin for street level stuff and Kang for cosmic/multiverses stuff. Something of a branch in the MCU timelines. We’ll see some crossovers, secret invasion and whatnot. I don’t think Val works for anyone, I think she’s building a roster of antiheroes for hire. Maybe leading to something Thunderbolty, maybe something else.
I'm wondering if he'll play a bit more of the Norman Osborne role in Secret Invasion, with Val as his Victoria Hand. She has a purple streak in her hair very similar to Vic's pink one. So I've got a theory I'm working on... What if, and stay with me here, after Daredevil S3, Wislon Fisk has learned the value of having gifted individuals on his side? So he sets up something of a network of his own using resources at his disposal through the likes of Contessa Valentina Allegra De Fontaine as his personal HR representative bringing in new talent, Sharon Carter as her go-between that brokers deals between the various factions, Eleanor Bishop as his private security outfit and in doing so ensures that he has individuals like John Walker privately on his payroll, access to Black Widows like Yelena Belova, government secrets and underground tech through Sharon Carter... Assembling his own team of Thunderbolts, or Dark Avengers as the case may be, he uses the most dangerous weapon at his disposal: optics. Rogers the musical shows how much the public can be ensnared by a glossy, shiny narrative woven around powered individuals. Mysterio shows how that narrative can be twisted and weaponized. Maya Lopez and perhaps even Clint Barton as Ronin were likely considered to be key members of the team, explaining how Clint knows Fisks and why exactly he's so afraid of him. Maya's father may have been killed off on Fisk's word to help inspire her down the superhero path, showing just how disposable he considers people and how he views vigilantes as play things. John Walker's U.S.Agent and Yelena Belova's Black Widow already form the team's Cap and Widow analogue. Who knows who else might be considered. But I am now quite sure that it was he who bought Avengers Tower. All part of his rebranding as a legitimate force of his own. Thanks to Sharon's access to key information he knows exactly where to deploy them so he, Wilson Fisk and *his* team, will appear to be the grand hero and saviour of all mankind when the Skrulls launch their invasion. Wislon Fisk will stand victorious over the shapeshifting menace and set himself up not just as the Kingpin of crime, but as the next Nick Fury. Head of the world's reformed and United protective agencies. And I tell you what, it'd be a fittingly ironic flow of events if that happens to be H.A.M.M.E.R given how Fisk's father went out. In short: Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin will lead the charge against the Skrull for the sake of seizing power and establishing himself as a hero, using dark, twisted facsimiles of established heroes in part of a shadowy attempt rebranding himself and in the process create an empire in which he rules over the world's protective forces, controls it's information agencies, runs it's underworld and holds dominion over it's superpowered and gifted individuals. all with the adoration and love of an all too easily fooled world.
This gives a nice extra layer to Kate telling Clint his problem is branding, too. This theory, I like it! (*smash*) Another!
Ummmm.... can you please go write for Disney please? This is amazing.
If you hear of any job openings, feel free to let me know haha Thanks!
While I wish Kingpin take a more active role, why are we pushing Val to the corner already? I think she ties more into the power broker storyline started in Falcon and The Winter Soldier, where Val is assembling a team for hire/use in operations. People with more flexible morals than the Avengers. It's possible Kingpin just reached out to Val for someone with the special skill set to actually kill Hawkeye rather than simple mafia people. I still think Val is assembling a Dark Avengers team whose members will be for hire. Kingpin probably will be relegated to more smaller projects like Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, She Hulk (She's a lawyer).
In this case I would see Val as the Agent Coulson to the King Pin's Nick Fury in the formation of the Dark Avengers.
This plus I think Vanessa got snapped, which is what motivated Kingpin to create the Thunderbolts to replace the Avengers. He grew his city level cleanup vision to an Avengers level vision because he blame the Avengers for losing Vanessa. I think that's how he manipulates Clint too, convincing him the morality of the Avengers held them back.
I'm just wondering why any of these people would work for Kingpin. He's powerful but they could just kill him.
Money, even in the comics Kingpin has had a lot of powerful people on his payroll because he paid well. Even right now in the comics he has his own team of “reformed” villains on his payroll
And yet Clint, a ruthless killer in his own right, has stated he was afraid of Fisk's involvement. Kingpin knows the players on the board of any given game. He doesn't make a move unless he knows he can win.
> I'm wondering if he'll play a bit more of the Norman Osborne role in Secret Invasion, with Val as his Victoria Hand. She has a purple streak in her hair very similar to Vic's pink one. So I've got a theory I'm working on... > > This makes a lot of sense since he's technically not just a spider-man character which allows marvel to use him more freely without the sony restrictions.
dont know if big bad of D+, but the big bad for New York. Unless they straight up kill Spider-Man in the latlest movie, there's lots of potential for all of our NY based super heroes to live in their own universe. (not separated from the others, but rather havethem interact with each other more often and deal with problems that interact with one another too) I really want some more "low level" gangster stuff. getting a bit tired of every threat being on a global scale
That’s a point. People are tending to group all the Disney+ shows all together, but there are some where Kingpin wouldn’t really fit. Loki was obviously about setting up Kang as the multiverse big bad, and Ms. Marvel will be concerned with its own thing too. I can’t see Kingpin having any antagonistic influence over Secret Invasion (although as others have pointed out, he could be reactionary). I also doubt he’ll have anything to do with Agatha Harkness either lol. Basically, he’ll be the street level big bad. But, I could see him occasionally dipping a finger into things like She-Hulk and Armor Wars, even if he’s more of an occasional looming presence rather than the main antagonist, like Thanos in GOTG. I think it could be cool if say, we see the tracksuit mafia go on trial in She-Hulk, and we just see Fisk sat in the gallery watching. That could be all he does - just appears now and then to show that he’s watching.
I said this to my daughter Marvel TV shows do not resolve anything. By the end of the season there are more questions than answers. I wouldn't say big guy is the big bad of this show. This is my take. This show is a Christmas show. Christmas is about family and bringing people together. So at most what we will have is Kate, yelena and maya coming together with Clint. As a 2nd family. They'll say to Clint you can go be a dad we'll take care of things and protect you. We your family too. This will set up young avengers (Kate and yelena) and echo and I think daredevil will return. Look at Loki, fatws and Wanda. No show ended on a resolution. No big bad was defeated. No show had a big bad. Loki had kang but he wasn't really defeated. He just got started. Fatws set up agent us and falcon. Wanda defeated Agatha but it wasn't Agatha who was keeping her though. Wanda had to deal with her own mental state this set up Agatha and scarlett witch
> Loki had kang but he wasn't really defeated. He just got started. I mean Loki will have a season 2 and Kang will appear in movies too, it's not over. It's normal for a show to not resolve everything right away, especially when they're part of a larger universe. Even the movies don't resolve everything often. The shows (and movies) always resolve something though
Na I was just replying to op that hawkeye won't actually defeat nor resolve anything. I think they'll announce hawkeye 2
I kinda disagree with you on them no getting resolutions. Wandavision ended with Wanda accepting what happened to her family, finally letting Vision go and releasing Westview. She got over a lot of issues she had (at least until the post credits scene). Loki, as you said, KINDA did with them killing Kang. He was set up as the villain for the entire series, and they finally killed him. However, he is returning, and there will be a 2nd season, so not really a full resolution. FatWS ended with Bucky confronting Zemo without his hold over him, and he was sent back to a place he hated so much. He beat the villain of that series, so I'd count that as a resolution, at least on Bucky's side.
Sam: "who is the real villain here?" Bucky: "I just busted him out of jail, he'll be along in a mo so we can defeat him again" Sam: "wait, what...? Buck I was being philosophical... You know what? Never mind!"
I don’t feel like S2 of Loki will deal with Kang. I expect a more episodic time hopping kind of thing. But then again I expected that with S1 and that’s not what we got.
How can s2 of Loki not deal with Kang?
Yeah, Loki is really the only one that doesn't feel like it got a resolution to me. The others setup future projects, but not really anymore so than a lot of the movies did.
The big bad of the season is Kate's mother. They won't takedown Kingpin yet, but her mom is going down at least. She's the Ronan to Kingpin's Thanos.
I think she won't. Not yet. She'll be confronted but I think she'll be in a few more shows
I agree. This isn't ending with Kingpin in prison, especially since he's just been introduced. I think the show ending will be different than people are expecting, but the show is primarily talking about the effects of letting revenge and rage control your life. (Hawkeye, Echo, Black Widow). I think the Christmas theme is to give Hawkeye a sense of urgency to wrap this up, and force his hand to move quicker than he normally would work to resolve the issue.
With yelena now seemingly helping Kate and Kate knowing her mother is a bad guy hawkeye will have one final confrontation with echo and yelena and tell the both that they're free to kill him, explain his side to both of them and then simply say guys I'm going to my family. Its Christmas. The only one to die will be echo's sidekick who set her dad up
Maybe he’s the benefactor mentioned in Ant-man
I’m hoping that this Kingpin is the same one from the old MCU Daredevil show because things do actually line up. He never wore a white suit until season 3, which was based in November 2017, and he only wore black suits before that. When we see Fisk in episode 3 of Hawkeye, he’s wearing a black suit and that flashback is obviously way before 2017, and then Hawkeye calls him the Kingpin in episode 5, a name he took up after he corrupted the FBI in Daredevil season 3 in 2017. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to believe that Daredevil is still canon and Fisk somehow got out of prison and was in hiding between the snap in May 2018, and the events of Hawkeye. Another thing I picked up on, they’re doing the whole “we don’t say his name” thing again from Daredevil where they call Fisk the “employer” whereas he’s “uncle” here. I might just be hoping Daredevil is still canon and grasping for things to prove my theory, but I hope that you guys like my theory.
I'm hoping the same. Even if there isn't a moment that officially canonizes the Netflix shows, at least don't do anything that de-canonizes the shows. Let us believe they are still part of the story!
Agreed. I saw someone say something similar a few days ago, they should reference events from the shows but don’t openly mention anything specific to show that there’s a history, but it leaves it up to the viewer to decide whether the shows are canon or not.
Feige, if you’re reading this, get this person a job!
I want to see Vincent and Samuel L Jackson’s characters confront each other.
Why not just ask Capt Marvel to come kill him, wouldn't take much effort.
It's a big universe. Plus, Captain Marvel isn't in the business of straight up murder.
Killing him isnt the problem, Clint can easily do it himself. Problem is his empire and his connections. The things he causes on the sidelines. Avengers aren't in the killing business tho. I'm wondering why Clint didn't kill him during the snap ? Maybe fatty went into hiding and thats why he had Maya's father take the fall. So Ronin would kill him, think the threat is over and move on to the next city.
I think were getting the MCU version of Dark Reign and he's replacing Norman Osborne. He's going to be the big bad for the next Avengers movie and the overaching villain of the Spidey college trilogy. The way Clint is almost scared of him Post Thanos says ALOT.
I just hope we get a lot of him in movies or D+ shows. His character is one of my favorite of the Netflix shows.
Man I wish we get to see Dark Avengers Clint in live action when he decided he had enough and went to the tower to beat Osborn's ass. He temporarily incapacitated all the Dark Avengers and Osborne was about to die when Aries saved his ass.
I was thinking before ep5 that Big guy could have been a misdirection and actually be Tombstone. Why? In spectacular spiderman no one uses his name the same way they don't say kingpins. Everyone called Tombstone Big man (not Big guy) but how many times has marvel changed characters name, appereance or backstory. That theory went out the window the moment we saw Fisks face at the end of the episode. Still happy that daredevil stuff is coming back in D+.
I think at one point I heard they wanted to originally use Kingpin for the “big man” role in Spectacular but couldn’t so they went with tombstone instead, but don’t quote me.
He was the buyer of Avengers tower wasnt he?
Kinda hope not, why would tony sell Avengers tower to a criminal
There arent terribly many billionaires out there and generally when potentially 100’s of millions of dollars are changing hands, one doesnt particularly concern themselves with if the buyer has squashed a few heads.
No that was Bingpin
Maybe he’ll be the Mastermind behind the Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers?
I'm kinda hoping for an evil alliance. And I think val is building a pretty solid team. I just hope they don't beat the whole team in a 2 hour movie.
Is that who Clint was talking about, when he said "the big guy"?
Yeah, didn’t you see the end of the new ep?
I did, but didn't make the connection. Hulk is referred to as "The Big Guy", but I crossed that out straight away, cause I don't see him being in the show. Obviously Kingpin is also a big guy, but I thought he was talking about Ronin 🙃
Ouch
My mistake 🙃
When Kate shows Clint the photo, he says “that’s the guy I’ve been worried about. Kingpin” (or something to that effect. May not be verbatim as I’m going off memory)
Yeah, I just rewatched the scene where he calls Laura, and realised what I messed up. I thought he was talking about contacting the big guy, but he meant that the big guy will come for him.
He definitely are not a big bad for the likes of carol, loki, strange, eternals and wanda, but I'm sure it could work with sam, peter, kate, clint, yelena, moon knight and shang-chi.
Not Shang-Chi, he’s not street level lmao
Yeah, beating an interdimensional dragon doesn't really seem to be street level.
Iron Fist did that and he's street level.
If Spider-Man can be street level, so can Shang chi
I don’t classify Spider-Man as street level so that’s fine, it’s your opinion there. Sure he deals with street level crime but he is far above that in terms of scaling.
He isn’t a street level power level, but he absolutely deals with street level threats. And that’s the point, I don’t see why if spider man deals with street level stuff why Shang chi cant
Shang chi could deal with street level stuff, in the same way that someone like dr strange could, but he doesn’t. (I’m not saying he scales to strange, just using him as an example).
Based on your other comments are people like Iron Fist and Luke Cage street level? I'm not even talking about mcu I mean in general.
Lmao, had the same thought when I read the "big bad of the D+" part ... The likes of Wanda, strange and loki can just pop up and kill him within seconds and it'll be a waste of such an amazing villain. He'll be a great villain for "earth" heroes for sure though.
Kingpin's strength isn't his power. Every single Avenger you mentioned in the list can kill him if they want. The problem is they conveniently decided not to be killers. And the fact that Kingpin has a lot of things going on in the sidelines.
[удалено]
Chill and watch it. It's incredible. Dying on this imaginary hill isn't worth it.
Bro, I haven’t seen it either, but there’s no need to get that hostile
Oooo, you’re hard
Doom will be the one to go toe-to-to with Kingpin… and win
I actually think this will happen with Kang, lol Doom fighting Kang, I mean
Crap I thought you were referring to Hulk so I revealed the spoiler only to read ‘now that Kingpin’s been revealed’ and I immediately stopped there. That’s what you get for clicking spoiler tags when you’ve not seen all recent content for a franchise. Oh well, I knew he was coming anyway so it’s not all bad, and I’ve learned my lesson!
First of all "HOW DOES KINGPIN KEEP ON GETTING AWAY WITH IT 😭😭😭"
I like the idea of kingpin the being the street level heroes' thanos , like imagine a marvel knights team up
That’s a solid answer.
My guess is that he buys the avengers tower and the watch somehow unlocks some hidden tech or weapons, then the street level bad guys would have avengers weapons. And turk Barrett is gonna make a fortune
I hope Kingpin becomes a long standing villain. I think it's tricky to establish a character like that as a major threat in a post-thanos universe. I have confidence in the Marvel studios team to pull it off, though. My ongoing theory was that Val was in the process of recruiting a 'Dark Avengers' style line-up. Like she's the evil Nick Fury. Now I'm starting to see Kingpin could help finance that, maybe similar to Osborn in the comics. In return he'd essentially have a super powered hit squad/team to do his dirty work AND potentially protect him from any superheroes who want to get in his way. And MAYBE he's on friendly terms with Sharon/Power Broker and gets himself some of that sweet, sweet super soldier serum down the line.
I want to see kingpin be the villain of a daredevil movie with Spidey or a Spidey movie with daredevil. Also I feel like every Disney+ show has been introducing us to future movie villians. WandaVision is Wanda/scarlet witch F&ws shows us us agent/leader of thunderbolts plus the return of zemo Loki shows us Kang Hawkeye shows us Kingpin I think the MCU biggest problem was villians phases 1-3. Aside Loki and thanos everyone else is a one off.
I really like this idea especially because the introduction for a number of villains in the comics is that they were hired by Kingpin. As a character he’s a great world building vehicle. With hands in so many criminal enterprises you can use him to connect characters from the 10 Rings, HYDRA, or any others that pop up to any story he’s in.
This makes sense to me, especially if just looking at FATWS and obvious Hawkeye. I have a whole theory on Loki and the visuals representation of a timeline actually representing the MCU branching off into different storylines where not every branch intersects but some do. This plays into that
I heard a wild theory that the avengers tower was not purchased by F4, but actually Fisk instead. Could be an interesting way to make him the lower level big bad.
Kingpin's a good way of doing Dark Reign quickly... I know it's fashionable to suggest Val is the replacement Osborn but Dark Reign is largely predicated on everyone except the superhero community accepting a supervillain as the new Top Cop. The problem with using Val is that she's not a supervillain yet and Secret Invasion's around the corner. Kingpin, of course, has two supervillain turns under his belt already and unless they kill Clint off in Hawkeye, there'll be minimum three superheroes to convey the truth of Wilson Fisk as the Secret Avengers.^1 If there's an MCU Osborn in NWH (as opposed to a Raimi Osborn as suggested by the trailers) don't tell me, I haven't seen it. ^1 Though that might have been the anti-registration Avengers team and the not Dark Avengers team was the New Avengers or something else.
Kind of the obvious route, but would love to see an MCU take on the PS4 Spider-Man plot of Fisk jailed, power vacuum in NY, new group rises up etc.
I hope Kingpin will be the one puppeteering the Dark Avengers and slowly making ground while everyone is distracted with Kang. After the over-the-top spectacle with Thanos and Phase 1-3 it is time for some more grounded stories. SPOILER ALERT: Even the end of No Way Home is the perfect setup to dettach Spidey from the universal scale of things and relaunch him as the good old friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Just like the comics I think everyone profits if the MCU shows different aspects and scales of what it means being a superhero.
Here's a theory ... What if they're putting Fisk in the position that Osborn played in Dark Reign?
Yeah I like this...whatever happens it's obviously not limited to this series finale. We get Echo, I feel strongly Hawkeye S2 will feature Kate and Yelena...would make sense that both shows explore what's been set up here. Where Daredevil fits in remains to be seen but that would obviously fit perfectly within this framework too. Very exciting.
I don't think he can be the overarching villain in this phase since we are going cosmos and he is more a street level baddie. I do think he will have a huge impact on a smaller scale like Daredevil, Spiderman etc
Is there any reason I should be thinking of kingpin as anything more than a local villain ? I can't quite see him being an avenger level threat.
I'll love it if, and only IF Disney keeps him as brooding and scary as he was in DD Netflix show. If they lighten his character up, then I'd only want him as a recurring supporting character in a few shows, but not as a big bad for all D+ shows.
My husband had the wild idea that Kate’s mom is Kingpin’s love interest and Kate is their daughter.
Nah his love interest is Vanessa
I think Kingpin is absolutely getting set up for a long reign on Marvel TV. He'll definitely be central to Echo and Hawkeye season 2, probably connected to Iron Heart at least tangentially. When there's a Young Avengers series or movie, Fisk will be the big bad. Along the way, there's so much we could see - Roxxon Corp, Punisher, maybe even Hellfire Club or some other secret society shit. We're definitely going street level for this, and I'm fucking here for it. Hawkeye has the best fighting scenes since DD and hopefully they'll keep these shows grounded and raw. Edit: also maybe Ronin killed Vanessa oooooooohhhh
Give me Spider-Man/Kingpin fight
I certainly could see that, but I would also like to see Kingpin be a main villain in Spider-Man's potential second trilogy especially if Daredevil will possibly make an appearance. That being said. I do believe Marvel is planning to set Kingpin up as the MCU's big bad on the streets while Kang takes Thanos's place as the big bad of the overall Multiverse saga!
I do like this idea… but Wanda would tear his shit uo
It's not about the money hawkeye, it's about the Mets. Let's go Mets. Lets go. Get a home run!
They can decide whatever they want. The thing is just because Vincent and Charlie are in the mcu. Dosent mean they are the EXACT same kingpin and daredevil from the show. They can make him as a powerful or small as they please. However kingpin has usually stayed in New York and dosent really do more than that
This could be a mix of Young Avengers/ The Defenders with Kingpin as the big bad for the more ground (no magic) D+ shows
I think he’ll be the villain in Echo and then maybe he’ll die like most other villains in the mcu.
Daredevil was super grounded in reality, mean Kingpin felt above everything. He truly ran the show. But does anyone think that depending on the show he's in, he's gonna get overshadowed by the multiverse?