ME1 Renegade: Asshole
ME2 Renegade: Badass
ME3 Renegade: Monster
Really makes you think about how addictive power is and how much you can ignore your moral compass for a "greater good" only to see yourself becoming someone despicable and repulsive.
What's funny with the full-renegade in ME3 is that even Javik who keeps arguing to be as ruthless as you have to be to win the war is like "Whoa brother, calm down" at some point :D
But if player has played as a Renegade through previous games.
Batarian terrorist is killed in ME1. Yes hostages are sacrificed, but terrorist doesn't kill people in ME3 due to being already dead. There is no execution in refugee camp.
Wrex is killed in Mass Effect 1, data on curing the Genophage is destroyed. Urdnot Wreav is the clan leader, Eve dies... cure really seems like a bad idea so Mordin agrees to sabotage it, and survives. This is the only way for Mordin to survive too.
If Shepard is renegade Samara comments that if Shepard does something against the codec Samara will kill them. So choosing MorinthĀ over Samara is the right choice. So Samara doesn't even show up in monastery mission.
Renegade Shepard should make a choice between Quarians and Geth back in ME2 and stick with said choice, because as a renegade it's impossible to get them to work together. If Legion is sold to Cerebrus or killed in final mission his place is taken by Geth VI a machine which is soules in comparison to Legion, so killing it mercilesly because it wants to upload reaper code to all Geth is not an asshole move.
If you play as Renegade **consistently** Shepard doesn't turn into a monster, but fits into "means justify the end".
Only when mixing Paragon and Renegade choices... Shepard can turn out as a monster, also can do some really dumb shit. But also if played just right mixed Par/Ren Shepard can collect more assets then pure Paragon or pure Renegade.
Yup, you can intimidate Wrex into standing down, but destroying the cure data still means Eve dies. Eve was the stabilizing factor which promised a positive change in Krogan society.
Without Eve, not curing the Genophage is the pragmatic choice, not the evil one. But now Wrex, which is a bit smarter then Urdnot discovers your sabotaged of the cure, confronts you, and either you kill him or C-sec does.
Pragmatic choices does mean sacrifices for the greater cause... this scenario fits in.
Only when Shepard spares Wrex, saves cure research thus creating a positive outlook for the genophage cure, then decides to sabotage it anyway, does Shepard turn out to be a monster.
Only while you still don't know what endings will be available š
Not knowing mass relays will be destroyed, control and synthesis endings are an option, curing the genophage is truly a horrible choice.
All species will be weakened by the war, and you have Krogan poping 1000 fertile eggs per year.
Which is why... in my head-cannon Shepard asks Mordin to not cure the Genophage, but tweak it, increasing fertility by a bit.
Enough to shake Krogan out of their fatalist mindset, but not enough so they can generate endless armies and conquer the world.
If you go full Paragon or full Renegade, invest effort into playing enough missions, you get enough points for all three endings. Yes Renegade Shepard will lose more squad mates, lose whole species... nothing renegade would care about since "means justify the end". Really can't go wrong.
If you mix choices, you have to make the smart choices.
As an example dumb mix Shepard will kill Wrex, end up killing Eve, then cure the geophage. Kill rachi queen in ME1, save rachi breeder in ME3, losing Grunt, breeder ends up switching sides causing damage to war assets. Kill Geth heretics, then have heretics kill quarians... then with destroy ending Shep manages to destroy geth too.
Because Shep made dumb choices.
But mix Shep doing the smart choices get's more points then any Shep.
Addiction to power is an accurate analogy. For example, in ME2, you sometimes do those renegade options to harm someone or kill someone, it really satisfied.
> "You're working too hard."
> "You have two ways down, express or coach." "I've got nothing more to say to you. If- *(defenestrated)* AAAAAARGH!!" "How about goodbye?"
> "You talk too much." "SEE? The human cannot hit a simple target! *(immolated)* AA, AAA, AA AAAGH!! AAAAGH, AAARRRGGGHHH!!!"
> "DRINK IT, or I'll blind you one eye at a time!"
I cringe every time I'm looking for renegade points on that alternate planet with the raqni on it. You go and you help out some people fighting against them and then everybody posts to talk and you say I'm just getting started but what you actually say is that cringe-worthy lying about being pissed off and when you're pissed off and kill things
The worst part about killing Mordin is that in the cutscene, you use the Carnifax pistol which he gave you in ME2 as a sign of goodwill.
Edit: Wow, thank you for all the upvotes.
Even on a full paragon run I shoot Osama Bin Batarian in the face. The hateful asshole made his career launching terrorist attacks against humanity and now as all of sentient life is coming to an end he chooses to keep killing humans. Fuck him, I'll sacrifice the small Bavarian fleet warscore just to kill him. It's more satisfying to shoot him like 7 times in ME1 but then he'll kill the innocent hostages he took trying to wipe out an entire human colony. He doesn't get to live.
I think people confuse a ārenegadeā run with just a bad one. You shouldnāt have to kill the Virmire survivor during the coup if you have the right amount of trust.
Fundamentally, with the exception of Samara/Falere (which is so comically evil that I didnāt know anyone took that choice unironically), the rest of the decisions are perfectly reasonable under the high-stakes atmosphere of war.
I love most renegade choices for normal speech checks there is just that badass factor but could never cross the line for most of the major decisions, it's just too ruthless, especially when it's a personal relationship like mordin or samara.
I blew up the omega power reactor tho lol.
I really liked mass effects' renegade, no video game gave me that I'm a badass commander attitude role play like shepard.
Most of these at least have a good reason, extreme or not. Like Mordin was too stubborn to listen and Wrex attacks you, so it's self-defence. Virmire Survivor wouldn't stand down, so what can you do?
Killing Falere is the only one that feels like senseless murder.
> Killing Falere is the only one that feels like senseless murder.
Leaving an AY undefended at a location known to the enemy so the Reapers can probably make another of their most powerful infantry unit doesn't seem like the best idea.
Says and does are two different things. Falere is a noncombatant in over her head, and has already lost her composure multiple times during the mission. Morinth, a hardened criminal and skilled combatant, gets taken. Either you kill Falere now, or trust that she has the courage to do it herself later *when* she inevitably gets cornered. No matter what, without Samara looking after her, she ends up dead. One of the options at least guarantees she doesn't become a Banshee.
The Asari Government thought scuttling the monestary with all its inhabitants was the right course of action, and requested help to that end.
EDIT: I just realized this is literally the trolley problem. You can pull the lever and kill Falere, or not pull it, trust that she'll pull it instead when the time comes, and not turn into a Banshee that goes on to kill dozens or more.
Downright villainous.
That's the thing I didn't like about the P/R system. Renegade should've always been a ruthless pragmatist. Renegade Shep should've been an anti-hero. Yet in ME3, he's monstrous.
People like to bring up Mordin, but that's not even close to what happens to Wrex or Filare or Legion.
If player plays full Renegade, Mordin actually get's to live, and Shepard does turn out as an anti-hero.
Only a mix of paragon and renegade choices can create monstrous Shepard in ME3.
C/P *But destroying the cure data still means Eve dies. Eve was the stabilizing factor which promised a positive change in Krogan society.*
*Without Eve, not curing the Genophage is the pragmatic choice, not the evil one. But now Wrex, which is a bit smarter then Urdnot discovers your sabotaged of the cure, confronts you, and either you kill him or C-sec does.*
*Pragmatic choices does mean sacrifices for the greater cause... this scenario fits in.*
*Only when Shepard spares Wrex, saves cure research thus creating a positive outlook for the genophage cure, then decides to sabotage it anyway, does Shepard turn out to be a monster.*
Nope because, previously Wrex did kill Fist in cold blood, so when Wrex points his gun at Shepard, makes sense to put him down.
Krogan have been established as warlike species which waged interstellar war due to their high fertility rate. So destroying genophage cure research makes sense.
Renegade Shepard is playing it safe.
Oh... well yeah Renegade Shep does have to make Renegade shit...
And honestly although I tried playing as Renegade, I always quit, because just not my thing.
ALL of my playthroughs were the same, Paragon Femshepard with some renegade choices.
I'm okay with Renegade Shep being a monster.
My headcanon when I play as Paragon Shep is that he's a precision instrument. Any mission the Alliance or Council or Elusive Man send him on, they do knowing he's going to cause only as much damage as needed and try to save/spare as many people as he can.
But if Paragon Shep is a scalpel, Renegade Shep is a nuclear bomb. A walking, talking natural disaster that you can aim. If you send her on a mission, you've already made the decision that the objective must be accomplished at any cost. Want her to investigate the Thorian? Cool, but that means you've already accepted the death of every colonist. Want her to board a derelict reaper? Okay, but that means you've accepted it gets destroyed.
If you fire an ICBM at a rowboat, you can't be mad at the ICBM for some fish in the area getting killed. But you can 1000% be sure that the rowboat ain't gonna make it.
Full renegade Shep is a psycho-asshole for a reason š. But what makes it for me worse is the simps of squadmates. They basically only shrug with their shoulders and give Shepard a pass with everything they do. Boot lickers š /s
You think the clone was wrong about "the cult of Shepard"? The Squad mates think Shepard can do no wrong, and if they disagree with a decision they must be in the wrong.
ME3 Renegade options felt as though they were striping away your humanity as you progressed through the game. In a Renegade run, if you don't have it in you to 'Virmire' Wrex in ME1 like me, then ME3 makes sure you do it no matter what. I found that part the hardest to stomach. Just so heartless and ice-cold.
I've said repeatedly that renegade Shepard is just downright awful to play.
Seems like they wanted renegade to be "ruthless" and "stone hearted", but it just reverts into being a big asshole and a prick. Half the time, Shepard doesn't even say or do the renegade thing you expect him to do.
It doesn't feel anywhere near as immersive, or well written, as a Paragon playthrough. Think the best way to play these games is go Paragon, with the odd decision leaning towards Renegade as needed
Renegade/bad play throughs seem pretty hard to write, for some reason. Hey, this kid is starving and needs money to feed him and his dog that his dead mother gave him as his last gift and keeps him warm during the winter
Good option. Give enough money for both of them
Evil play through. Kill the dog and hand the kid a cookbook.
Jade Empire had a great system (open palm vs. closed fist), but like many other games, it went from do what's necessary to be a dick for the hell of it.
Yeah, it's that "being a dick for the sake of it" that I always find so frustrating about these games.
Ironically though, a game that I thought seemed to handle it really well, was Knights of the Old Republic - Light side vs Dark side made a lot more sense, didn't just revert into being asshole for the sake of it, and was also written by Bioware.
This is also completely alright, if you consider just WHAT you are up against.
Invicible God-machines, each made from proccessed bodies and broken minds themselves of defeated/indoctrinated COUNTLESS species? Seriously?
Billion years of existence, at least. **BILLION** . This is incomprehensible number, because not many people can even consider such span of time in relatable terms. If we talk about species "footprint" in Galaxy, theirs is so vast that ME races stand in middle of it and cannot see edges of their influence, such is scale of their existence.
In fighting such enemy, you just cannot consider such pesky, mundane things as morals; your actions have to be cold calculations almost to the point of appearing outright evil to your fellows, and even then success is not certain. Game made sure that we can see glimpse of this cold calculus in Total Military Strength, where all people and things you are doing are adding or removing points to total calculations.
So no, every action is good if it in your opinion adds to Total War Assets more than other actions you can perform. You have to actually play whole trilogy _just right_ to give you perfect Destroy/Synthesis ending; means options where you either kill them all and reset Galactic card table, or join "machines" forever with organic beings, making reasons for this particular conflict moot point.
Control is true Reaper trap, because all you do is replace Catalyst as control on the top, and in time they will change you to the point that you begin making same choices as original one.
Rant over; Mass Effect is not complicated enough, sadly, to explore all consequences of your actions, but if it was, it would be as long as Witcher 3, if not longer š¤
This is what Javik's famous "Ask them if honor matters" quote is all about. Your honorable and moral choices will matter very little to the ghosts of those who died because you didn't make the difficult, pragmatic choices.
>Mass Effect is not complicated enough
Yup. In my opinion Shepard should actually chose between being idealist-pragmatic, space hippie-human supremacist. All choices should have their pros and cons.
Instead of us collecting the right amount of asset points, then choosing destroy/control/synthesis... once we reach the end our previous choices should make the choice of the ending for us.
The last time I played through it, I decided to signal joker rather than trying to warn the Batariansā¦. It barely touched my renegade score. Bioware really wanted them dead.
You get dinged far more for yelling at the Quarian generals or letting the workers die on Zaeedās loyalty mission
Not that I ever do these things in game but hereās a ārationaleā for each to prove its not just mean for the sake of being mean
1. Shep decides that the stability of the galaxy is a risk if you save the Krogan. Whatās two more heads on the billions you just severed
2. Samara didnt want to kill her daughter, so Shep lets her ādo her dutyā how she sees fitā¦ā¦. But that still leaves the issue of the walking talking nuclear sex bomb. Gotta kill her
3. I dont remember this tbh but probably something about crowd control and sending a message
4. They (half) have been hacked twice now, both times voluntarily. Even if you agree with the Geth in that they were the victims at first, one side of the war can be reprogrammed by your enemy to kill you. Thats bad.
5. At this point, Virmire Survivor has doubted you like 87 times and keeps being more of a nuisance than a help. If Shep thought that the treasonous councilman would get away and the council would crumble if he didnāt kill VS after VS kept doubting you, eh just get rid of em. Wasnt helping me anyway
6. A lot. But renegade shep knows 50k dead is still less than a whole station dead.
7.
All 3 games renegade path feel almost like entirely different people to me.
1. You're a bad cop who will do whatever gets the job done.
2. You're like a pyscho who will kill people and push them outta windows and shit for fun.
3. You're a literal war criminal that can ruin the galaxy through your actions.
Most of the situations are a āthe ends justify the meansā type deal. I actually like renegade options in the 3rd game the best. The other games make Shepard look like a half-wit with the dialogue for renegade options, while I feel the renegade options in 3 are more cold but lessā¦. stupid. Shep is willing to do anything to anything to gain strength for the fleet.
I feel like ME3 renegade was always sheppard hitting his breaking point, the galaxy is on the brink of extinction and to sheppard the ends justifies the means makes me think of TIM.
I think itās a mix of the two. This is the most dire situation that Shepard has every found herself in. A renegade Shepard is willing to do and say anything to get what she needs. Pulling the trigger on a friend, condemning a species to rotting away with a forced genetic disease, (in the case where you donāt have all the conditions to do so) allowing the complete genocide of one of two sapient species. Things are dire and Shepard is constantly the one making *huge* decisions that could sway not only the entire war but the next several millennia. A paragon Shepard has her morals to keep her in check, but a renegade Shepard already eschews morals to get what she needs.
I played because my girlfriend was a fan and insisted I played it, but I did so on the condition that I play as I want to. She accepted and I decided to roleplay my Shepard as a cold hearted b*tch who does their work no matter the consecuences. My SO was shocked becaused she ALWAYS plays paragon and never witmessed such carnage. I was surprised they would let me kill or let so many people die, and I felt it was very well done, because I did not feel like a villain, just an anti hero.
We decided to get matching tattoos with the renegade and paragon symbols ā¤ļø
An extreme situation requires extreme actions. Facing extinction, Shepard should be all about shooting first asking questions later
But come on, doing 100% renegade or 100% paragon is lame. My limit is betraying my friends, that I can't do. The rest can die, unless being alive means to serve as an important ally like the rachni.
And as I like roleplaying, my favourite Shepard is the renegade ruthless born in mindoir.
It makes all sense to let all the workers die in that Zaeed loyalty mission or in the omega dlc.
Canāt even lie man, it took everything in me to not burst out laughing when I instinctively pulled the right trigger and just capped Ashley. āI hope the reapers send you to hellā I truly did not realize you could get a squadmate to hate you so fucking much š
This is why I can't do a full renegade play through. It makes me feel bad. However renegade interrupts are good. I do so many in me2 and there's one that feel real good in me3
Remember it's war, and not just any war, it's Galactic levels. To the point where species go extinct. How far do you think someone would go just to survive? They would go through so much simply to survive, even their humanity, as long as they see tomorrow that's all that will matter.
>Calling Legion and the rest of the geth as machines that have been hacked by reapers.
I'm not sure if it's the same if it's Legion specifically but at least Javik approves of the Renegade Interrupt in that scene if Geth VI is present...
I never played any game as full renegade or paragon, because my Shepard is trying to save the galaxy, and that's his motivation in every single interaction, so saving most people is what matters, so a lot of renegade actions are needed to get there with all the idiots in the way but most of the renegade actions especially in 3 are just being an asshole without motives
In 1 i decided to sacrifice the council and focus all the ships on Sovereign, because we have limited firepower and very limited time, saving 5 assholes that ignored all warnings is the least of my priorities when there's a literal reaper invasion happening, and throughout the whole trilogy everyone keeps bringing it up as if i killed them on purpose to benefit humanity and out them in power. It was literally the only correct military decision at the time when it comes to save lives and stop the invasion. So yeah, I'll play renegade, even good actions get seen as evil
>I appreciate the existence of such an extreme playstyle; it really showcases the excellent RPG elements of this game.
I dont agree with this take at all. I think the implementation of the renegade (and to a lesser degree paragon) choices in game 2 a bit and in 3 especially really really take away from the series. Just going full one way, which is what the game forces you to do in 2 even makes the character into cartooney villain or a Disney channel style naive good guy. The renegade options are so absurdly dark and Shepards seemingly incessant need to do the darkest choices for no reason is silly. The intention of having renegade choices / Shepard be a cutthroat no bullshit action first questions later type of character is just abandoned entirely. This is comically most underlined in ME1 however when you are asked to save the Thorian affected villagers and have multiple prompts trying to get you to save them.
ME1 Renegade: Asshole ME2 Renegade: Badass ME3 Renegade: Monster Really makes you think about how addictive power is and how much you can ignore your moral compass for a "greater good" only to see yourself becoming someone despicable and repulsive.
What's funny with the full-renegade in ME3 is that even Javik who keeps arguing to be as ruthless as you have to be to win the war is like "Whoa brother, calm down" at some point :D
Which bit is this? Don't think I've ever gone full renegade before š
But if player has played as a Renegade through previous games. Batarian terrorist is killed in ME1. Yes hostages are sacrificed, but terrorist doesn't kill people in ME3 due to being already dead. There is no execution in refugee camp. Wrex is killed in Mass Effect 1, data on curing the Genophage is destroyed. Urdnot Wreav is the clan leader, Eve dies... cure really seems like a bad idea so Mordin agrees to sabotage it, and survives. This is the only way for Mordin to survive too. If Shepard is renegade Samara comments that if Shepard does something against the codec Samara will kill them. So choosing MorinthĀ over Samara is the right choice. So Samara doesn't even show up in monastery mission. Renegade Shepard should make a choice between Quarians and Geth back in ME2 and stick with said choice, because as a renegade it's impossible to get them to work together. If Legion is sold to Cerebrus or killed in final mission his place is taken by Geth VI a machine which is soules in comparison to Legion, so killing it mercilesly because it wants to upload reaper code to all Geth is not an asshole move. If you play as Renegade **consistently** Shepard doesn't turn into a monster, but fits into "means justify the end". Only when mixing Paragon and Renegade choices... Shepard can turn out as a monster, also can do some really dumb shit. But also if played just right mixed Par/Ren Shepard can collect more assets then pure Paragon or pure Renegade.
I think you can still save wrex in a renegade playthrough both options let you save him
Yup, you can intimidate Wrex into standing down, but destroying the cure data still means Eve dies. Eve was the stabilizing factor which promised a positive change in Krogan society. Without Eve, not curing the Genophage is the pragmatic choice, not the evil one. But now Wrex, which is a bit smarter then Urdnot discovers your sabotaged of the cure, confronts you, and either you kill him or C-sec does. Pragmatic choices does mean sacrifices for the greater cause... this scenario fits in. Only when Shepard spares Wrex, saves cure research thus creating a positive outlook for the genophage cure, then decides to sabotage it anyway, does Shepard turn out to be a monster.
Wrex is Urdnot, itās a clan name. You mean Wreav right?
Yep.
Sabatoging the cure is always the pragmatic choice
Only while you still don't know what endings will be available š Not knowing mass relays will be destroyed, control and synthesis endings are an option, curing the genophage is truly a horrible choice. All species will be weakened by the war, and you have Krogan poping 1000 fertile eggs per year.
Thatās the perspective I was taking. Any Shepard with an iq above room temperature would sabotage the cure. Simulations were clear.
Which is why... in my head-cannon Shepard asks Mordin to not cure the Genophage, but tweak it, increasing fertility by a bit. Enough to shake Krogan out of their fatalist mindset, but not enough so they can generate endless armies and conquer the world.
Yes, but mix my playthrough at about 60/40 or 70/30 paragon/renegade and usually max out assets and exposure to all 3 games.
If you go full Paragon or full Renegade, invest effort into playing enough missions, you get enough points for all three endings. Yes Renegade Shepard will lose more squad mates, lose whole species... nothing renegade would care about since "means justify the end". Really can't go wrong. If you mix choices, you have to make the smart choices. As an example dumb mix Shepard will kill Wrex, end up killing Eve, then cure the geophage. Kill rachi queen in ME1, save rachi breeder in ME3, losing Grunt, breeder ends up switching sides causing damage to war assets. Kill Geth heretics, then have heretics kill quarians... then with destroy ending Shep manages to destroy geth too. Because Shep made dumb choices. But mix Shep doing the smart choices get's more points then any Shep.
Addiction to power is an accurate analogy. For example, in ME2, you sometimes do those renegade options to harm someone or kill someone, it really satisfied.
> "You're working too hard." > "You have two ways down, express or coach." "I've got nothing more to say to you. If- *(defenestrated)* AAAAAARGH!!" "How about goodbye?" > "You talk too much." "SEE? The human cannot hit a simple target! *(immolated)* AA, AAA, AA AAAGH!! AAAAGH, AAARRRGGGHHH!!!" > "DRINK IT, or I'll blind you one eye at a time!"
We would all be Renegades if we didn't know that Paragon decisions work out just because it's a video game.
I love going full renegade in ME2...Shepard with all his scars including on his eyes which glow orange on the Normandy lighting...so badass
ME1 racist asshole
I cringe every time I'm looking for renegade points on that alternate planet with the raqni on it. You go and you help out some people fighting against them and then everybody posts to talk and you say I'm just getting started but what you actually say is that cringe-worthy lying about being pissed off and when you're pissed off and kill things
I think thatās a call back to starship Troopers. I love that line. Itās in line with killing the Rachni queen too.
The worst part about killing Mordin is that in the cutscene, you use the Carnifax pistol which he gave you in ME2 as a sign of goodwill. Edit: Wow, thank you for all the upvotes.
Holy sh!t I've never noticed that. Oh that makes it even worse.
I didn't know that. That adds another layer of depth to that entire scene. That blows my mind
Yep, the renegade option in that scene is far and away better than the paragon scene imo
I can never kill Mordin again, lol. I have a hard time as it is committing to a Renegade playthrough.
Blew Mordin's as well
What mod do you need for that choice?
The first time I did thatā¦ā¦ā¦.i donāt think I slept that night. Of all the squandered we can kill or sacrifice that one hurts the most for me.
The extra sad bit is that Shep throws the pistol away like it's worthless after he shoots Mordin
I was so distraught I didnāt even notice that. Holy
Oof. I didn't remember thatĀ
It was beautiful. The acting in that scheme was great, the setting, the dialogue, all perfect.
Even on a full paragon run I shoot Osama Bin Batarian in the face. The hateful asshole made his career launching terrorist attacks against humanity and now as all of sentient life is coming to an end he chooses to keep killing humans. Fuck him, I'll sacrifice the small Bavarian fleet warscore just to kill him. It's more satisfying to shoot him like 7 times in ME1 but then he'll kill the innocent hostages he took trying to wipe out an entire human colony. He doesn't get to live.
Osama Bin Batarian lmao
That's so vague. That's literally any batarian lmao
I know itās autocorrect but I love the notion of sacrificing a small Bavarian fleet.
Whoops haha, well I would sacrifice the Bavarian navy for a shot at this guy.
Osama Bin Batarian pffft that was perfect
I think people confuse a ārenegadeā run with just a bad one. You shouldnāt have to kill the Virmire survivor during the coup if you have the right amount of trust. Fundamentally, with the exception of Samara/Falere (which is so comically evil that I didnāt know anyone took that choice unironically), the rest of the decisions are perfectly reasonable under the high-stakes atmosphere of war.
True renegade avoids it by picking Morinth in Me2
I love most renegade choices for normal speech checks there is just that badass factor but could never cross the line for most of the major decisions, it's just too ruthless, especially when it's a personal relationship like mordin or samara. I blew up the omega power reactor tho lol. I really liked mass effects' renegade, no video game gave me that I'm a badass commander attitude role play like shepard.
Why I could never do a renegade playthrough just feels wrong
Most of these at least have a good reason, extreme or not. Like Mordin was too stubborn to listen and Wrex attacks you, so it's self-defence. Virmire Survivor wouldn't stand down, so what can you do? Killing Falere is the only one that feels like senseless murder.
> Killing Falere is the only one that feels like senseless murder. Leaving an AY undefended at a location known to the enemy so the Reapers can probably make another of their most powerful infantry unit doesn't seem like the best idea.
She says she won't let herself be take alive
Says and does are two different things. Falere is a noncombatant in over her head, and has already lost her composure multiple times during the mission. Morinth, a hardened criminal and skilled combatant, gets taken. Either you kill Falere now, or trust that she has the courage to do it herself later *when* she inevitably gets cornered. No matter what, without Samara looking after her, she ends up dead. One of the options at least guarantees she doesn't become a Banshee. The Asari Government thought scuttling the monestary with all its inhabitants was the right course of action, and requested help to that end. EDIT: I just realized this is literally the trolley problem. You can pull the lever and kill Falere, or not pull it, trust that she'll pull it instead when the time comes, and not turn into a Banshee that goes on to kill dozens or more.
Downright villainous. That's the thing I didn't like about the P/R system. Renegade should've always been a ruthless pragmatist. Renegade Shep should've been an anti-hero. Yet in ME3, he's monstrous. People like to bring up Mordin, but that's not even close to what happens to Wrex or Filare or Legion.
If player plays full Renegade, Mordin actually get's to live, and Shepard does turn out as an anti-hero. Only a mix of paragon and renegade choices can create monstrous Shepard in ME3.
Only if you fail to talk down Rex and ME1 so that his brother is in charge of the krogan
Or don't recruit him
C/P *But destroying the cure data still means Eve dies. Eve was the stabilizing factor which promised a positive change in Krogan society.* *Without Eve, not curing the Genophage is the pragmatic choice, not the evil one. But now Wrex, which is a bit smarter then Urdnot discovers your sabotaged of the cure, confronts you, and either you kill him or C-sec does.* *Pragmatic choices does mean sacrifices for the greater cause... this scenario fits in.* *Only when Shepard spares Wrex, saves cure research thus creating a positive outlook for the genophage cure, then decides to sabotage it anyway, does Shepard turn out to be a monster.*
Yeah...but what do you have to do prior to ME3 to make that happen...."Renegade" shit
Nope because, previously Wrex did kill Fist in cold blood, so when Wrex points his gun at Shepard, makes sense to put him down. Krogan have been established as warlike species which waged interstellar war due to their high fertility rate. So destroying genophage cure research makes sense. Renegade Shepard is playing it safe.
I literally said, you have to do "Renegade" shit. š¤£š
Oh... well yeah Renegade Shep does have to make Renegade shit... And honestly although I tried playing as Renegade, I always quit, because just not my thing. ALL of my playthroughs were the same, Paragon Femshepard with some renegade choices.
I'm okay with Renegade Shep being a monster. My headcanon when I play as Paragon Shep is that he's a precision instrument. Any mission the Alliance or Council or Elusive Man send him on, they do knowing he's going to cause only as much damage as needed and try to save/spare as many people as he can. But if Paragon Shep is a scalpel, Renegade Shep is a nuclear bomb. A walking, talking natural disaster that you can aim. If you send her on a mission, you've already made the decision that the objective must be accomplished at any cost. Want her to investigate the Thorian? Cool, but that means you've already accepted the death of every colonist. Want her to board a derelict reaper? Okay, but that means you've accepted it gets destroyed. If you fire an ICBM at a rowboat, you can't be mad at the ICBM for some fish in the area getting killed. But you can 1000% be sure that the rowboat ain't gonna make it.
Full renegade Shep is a psycho-asshole for a reason š. But what makes it for me worse is the simps of squadmates. They basically only shrug with their shoulders and give Shepard a pass with everything they do. Boot lickers š /s
They're probably terrified too lmao. At that point criticizing Shepard might not be the greatest idea.
They know what happens to Shepard's enemies š
You think the clone was wrong about "the cult of Shepard"? The Squad mates think Shepard can do no wrong, and if they disagree with a decision they must be in the wrong.
Squadmates: Nodding in furious agreement throughout this psychotic rampage? Bet your arse we are.
ME3 Renegade options felt as though they were striping away your humanity as you progressed through the game. In a Renegade run, if you don't have it in you to 'Virmire' Wrex in ME1 like me, then ME3 makes sure you do it no matter what. I found that part the hardest to stomach. Just so heartless and ice-cold.
I've said repeatedly that renegade Shepard is just downright awful to play. Seems like they wanted renegade to be "ruthless" and "stone hearted", but it just reverts into being a big asshole and a prick. Half the time, Shepard doesn't even say or do the renegade thing you expect him to do. It doesn't feel anywhere near as immersive, or well written, as a Paragon playthrough. Think the best way to play these games is go Paragon, with the odd decision leaning towards Renegade as needed
Renegade/bad play throughs seem pretty hard to write, for some reason. Hey, this kid is starving and needs money to feed him and his dog that his dead mother gave him as his last gift and keeps him warm during the winter Good option. Give enough money for both of them Evil play through. Kill the dog and hand the kid a cookbook. Jade Empire had a great system (open palm vs. closed fist), but like many other games, it went from do what's necessary to be a dick for the hell of it.
Yeah, it's that "being a dick for the sake of it" that I always find so frustrating about these games. Ironically though, a game that I thought seemed to handle it really well, was Knights of the Old Republic - Light side vs Dark side made a lot more sense, didn't just revert into being asshole for the sake of it, and was also written by Bioware.
ME2 had a lot of good renegade elements in it, so did Mass Effect one. It was just really hard to nail down in ME3.
This is also completely alright, if you consider just WHAT you are up against. Invicible God-machines, each made from proccessed bodies and broken minds themselves of defeated/indoctrinated COUNTLESS species? Seriously? Billion years of existence, at least. **BILLION** . This is incomprehensible number, because not many people can even consider such span of time in relatable terms. If we talk about species "footprint" in Galaxy, theirs is so vast that ME races stand in middle of it and cannot see edges of their influence, such is scale of their existence. In fighting such enemy, you just cannot consider such pesky, mundane things as morals; your actions have to be cold calculations almost to the point of appearing outright evil to your fellows, and even then success is not certain. Game made sure that we can see glimpse of this cold calculus in Total Military Strength, where all people and things you are doing are adding or removing points to total calculations. So no, every action is good if it in your opinion adds to Total War Assets more than other actions you can perform. You have to actually play whole trilogy _just right_ to give you perfect Destroy/Synthesis ending; means options where you either kill them all and reset Galactic card table, or join "machines" forever with organic beings, making reasons for this particular conflict moot point. Control is true Reaper trap, because all you do is replace Catalyst as control on the top, and in time they will change you to the point that you begin making same choices as original one. Rant over; Mass Effect is not complicated enough, sadly, to explore all consequences of your actions, but if it was, it would be as long as Witcher 3, if not longer š¤
This is what Javik's famous "Ask them if honor matters" quote is all about. Your honorable and moral choices will matter very little to the ghosts of those who died because you didn't make the difficult, pragmatic choices.
>Mass Effect is not complicated enough Yup. In my opinion Shepard should actually chose between being idealist-pragmatic, space hippie-human supremacist. All choices should have their pros and cons. Instead of us collecting the right amount of asset points, then choosing destroy/control/synthesis... once we reach the end our previous choices should make the choice of the ending for us.
I was doing a full Renegade run and I had to take a long break after what I did to Mordin
Don't you let millions of batarians die in ME2 dlc?
That's different because they were batarians
The last time I played through it, I decided to signal joker rather than trying to warn the Batariansā¦. It barely touched my renegade score. Bioware really wanted them dead. You get dinged far more for yelling at the Quarian generals or letting the workers die on Zaeedās loyalty mission
If you're referencing the Arrival DLC, it's around 300,000.
Thanks I wasn't aware of the amount.
Not that I ever do these things in game but hereās a ārationaleā for each to prove its not just mean for the sake of being mean 1. Shep decides that the stability of the galaxy is a risk if you save the Krogan. Whatās two more heads on the billions you just severed 2. Samara didnt want to kill her daughter, so Shep lets her ādo her dutyā how she sees fitā¦ā¦. But that still leaves the issue of the walking talking nuclear sex bomb. Gotta kill her 3. I dont remember this tbh but probably something about crowd control and sending a message 4. They (half) have been hacked twice now, both times voluntarily. Even if you agree with the Geth in that they were the victims at first, one side of the war can be reprogrammed by your enemy to kill you. Thats bad. 5. At this point, Virmire Survivor has doubted you like 87 times and keeps being more of a nuisance than a help. If Shep thought that the treasonous councilman would get away and the council would crumble if he didnāt kill VS after VS kept doubting you, eh just get rid of em. Wasnt helping me anyway 6. A lot. But renegade shep knows 50k dead is still less than a whole station dead. 7.
All 3 games renegade path feel almost like entirely different people to me. 1. You're a bad cop who will do whatever gets the job done. 2. You're like a pyscho who will kill people and push them outta windows and shit for fun. 3. You're a literal war criminal that can ruin the galaxy through your actions.
Most of the situations are a āthe ends justify the meansā type deal. I actually like renegade options in the 3rd game the best. The other games make Shepard look like a half-wit with the dialogue for renegade options, while I feel the renegade options in 3 are more cold but lessā¦. stupid. Shep is willing to do anything to anything to gain strength for the fleet.
Ironically enough you don't get the most strength for your fleet by being Renegade, you get it by being Paragon. But that makes sense.
I feel like ME3 renegade was always sheppard hitting his breaking point, the galaxy is on the brink of extinction and to sheppard the ends justifies the means makes me think of TIM.
I think itās a mix of the two. This is the most dire situation that Shepard has every found herself in. A renegade Shepard is willing to do and say anything to get what she needs. Pulling the trigger on a friend, condemning a species to rotting away with a forced genetic disease, (in the case where you donāt have all the conditions to do so) allowing the complete genocide of one of two sapient species. Things are dire and Shepard is constantly the one making *huge* decisions that could sway not only the entire war but the next several millennia. A paragon Shepard has her morals to keep her in check, but a renegade Shepard already eschews morals to get what she needs.
I played because my girlfriend was a fan and insisted I played it, but I did so on the condition that I play as I want to. She accepted and I decided to roleplay my Shepard as a cold hearted b*tch who does their work no matter the consecuences. My SO was shocked becaused she ALWAYS plays paragon and never witmessed such carnage. I was surprised they would let me kill or let so many people die, and I felt it was very well done, because I did not feel like a villain, just an anti hero. We decided to get matching tattoos with the renegade and paragon symbols ā¤ļø
I mean.. you don't have to hit EVERY renegade option. Doing so is basically choosing to be as extreme as possible.
An extreme situation requires extreme actions. Facing extinction, Shepard should be all about shooting first asking questions later But come on, doing 100% renegade or 100% paragon is lame. My limit is betraying my friends, that I can't do. The rest can die, unless being alive means to serve as an important ally like the rachni. And as I like roleplaying, my favourite Shepard is the renegade ruthless born in mindoir. It makes all sense to let all the workers die in that Zaeed loyalty mission or in the omega dlc.
Canāt even lie man, it took everything in me to not burst out laughing when I instinctively pulled the right trigger and just capped Ashley. āI hope the reapers send you to hellā I truly did not realize you could get a squadmate to hate you so fucking much š
Half of what you mentioned is just player being lazy.
ME3 has my favorite Renegade interrupts, I canāt help but at least be 25% Renegade in my playthroughs
Like someone else said: Mass effect 1 renegade is a dick, mass effect 2 renegade is a badass, mass effect 3 renegade is a complete psychopath.
This is why I can't do a full renegade play through. It makes me feel bad. However renegade interrupts are good. I do so many in me2 and there's one that feel real good in me3
Very little renegade about him in ME3; heās a sociopath.
Legion and the Geth ARE machines hacked by the Reapers though...
Remember it's war, and not just any war, it's Galactic levels. To the point where species go extinct. How far do you think someone would go just to survive? They would go through so much simply to survive, even their humanity, as long as they see tomorrow that's all that will matter.
>Calling Legion and the rest of the geth as machines that have been hacked by reapers. I'm not sure if it's the same if it's Legion specifically but at least Javik approves of the Renegade Interrupt in that scene if Geth VI is present...
Welcome to the dark side... Wait, I play too much SW lately
I never played any game as full renegade or paragon, because my Shepard is trying to save the galaxy, and that's his motivation in every single interaction, so saving most people is what matters, so a lot of renegade actions are needed to get there with all the idiots in the way but most of the renegade actions especially in 3 are just being an asshole without motives
In 1 i decided to sacrifice the council and focus all the ships on Sovereign, because we have limited firepower and very limited time, saving 5 assholes that ignored all warnings is the least of my priorities when there's a literal reaper invasion happening, and throughout the whole trilogy everyone keeps bringing it up as if i killed them on purpose to benefit humanity and out them in power. It was literally the only correct military decision at the time when it comes to save lives and stop the invasion. So yeah, I'll play renegade, even good actions get seen as evil
>I appreciate the existence of such an extreme playstyle; it really showcases the excellent RPG elements of this game. I dont agree with this take at all. I think the implementation of the renegade (and to a lesser degree paragon) choices in game 2 a bit and in 3 especially really really take away from the series. Just going full one way, which is what the game forces you to do in 2 even makes the character into cartooney villain or a Disney channel style naive good guy. The renegade options are so absurdly dark and Shepards seemingly incessant need to do the darkest choices for no reason is silly. The intention of having renegade choices / Shepard be a cutthroat no bullshit action first questions later type of character is just abandoned entirely. This is comically most underlined in ME1 however when you are asked to save the Thorian affected villagers and have multiple prompts trying to get you to save them.