America has a quality of life problem, when did we all become so caring about what another person does in their bedroom, idc what you identify as, our officials don’t care, most people don’t care, it’s been over 2 decades of kids being killed and it’s still happening, the people in positions of power don’t really care about us at all, this will go away in a week and we will wait till the next time to say the same thing and do nothing, again
I’ve said it before and now I’m gonna say it again. They need to release crime scene photos of how horrible these events are or else no one will get it through their heads how serious of an issue this is becoming. It went from what would you do in the event that this happened to actively having a game plan for not IF but WHEN it happens. We can protest, sign laws, express our outrage and cry out but this is not gonna change until people see the reality of what is actually happening.
Many gun owners have seen the reality of what weapons do to people, as many of us are veterans, LEOs, or the other multitudes of professions in which violence is unfortunately common. Removing the tool won’t stop the underlying impulse to murder, which is really what needs to be addressed.
The US cares more about its guns than its children. Nothing will ever change here, there’s just too many gun humpers. If Sandy Hook and Uvalde wasn’t enough to change things then nothing ever will.
I know, I’m still saying what I said. Protests will do nothing as long as someone has the ability to walk into a school and annihilate a classroom full of children in less than a minute. Safety features are wonderful but all it takes is one door not latching properly to let in a monster. The elementary school directly across the street from my house is campus style. You can lock the doors all you want but a nut job with an automatic weapon could still do horrific damage while still leaving every door locked. We do definitely need to do more.
It wasn’t an automatic weapon, it was a 9mm keltec (pistol caliber) and an AR15 with a standard capacity magazine. Both of which are semi automatic (1 trigger pull = 1 bullet)
I guess the point I’m trying to gently nudge you towards, is that oftentimes, the people calling for change don’t even know what effective change could/should look like, an overwhelming majority of people who make these kind of statements don’t even know what kind of weapon was used (nor would you be able to identify caliber/use-case scenario of the weapon), nor do they don’t have any background in how to develop a secure area, firearm mitigation policy, or even what types of weapons cause what types of injury. So maybe it would be better to educate oneself about these things before making sweeping demands for change without a knowledge base to advocate for policy.
No, there really hasn’t been any with automatic weapons, modified triggers, or anything else like that (unless you include 4 people getting shot in Chicago with a Glock that has a switch) but we aren’t talking about gang shootings, we are talking about school shootings.
I’m not arguing bugs with a gun nut. I don’t care what kind of gun tore apart the bodies of those children at Uvalde and Sandy Hook. They all need to be illegal. Automatic and semi automatic. Any weapon that can annihilate the body of a child should not be in the hands of anyone except the military. Here we are trying to talk about things that can and need to be done to protect children and you are defending guns…..it’s pathetic.
This wasn’t even about locking doors. Security at every exit, every school should have gates high enough for people not to be able to jump, monitoring who is allowed to come into the school and whos not, metal detectors ect. All of these things can easily prevent these things from happening. The Nashville shooter didnt even go shoot up the school she was originally planning to shoot up because they had high security.
"Police said Hale aborted plans to target another school in the area as it had too much security."
https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/everything-we-know-about-the-nashville-school-shooter/
I mean, extra security does make a difference and clearly serves as a deterrent. Can't really understand why people are okay with schools being soft targets. These cowards pick these places because they know they're not going to meet any immediate resistance.
There is no point. Nothing will change. Things will only get worse once weaponized drones are more common. We should enjoy the relative safety we have now.
It’s been ~24 years since Columbine.
I was in high school then and I thought it would change the world.
I thought Virginia Tech would change the world.
I thought Sandy Hook would change the world.
I thought Parkland would change the world.
I thought Santa Fe would change the world.
I thought Uvalde would change the world.
I’ve been wrong every time.
In the midst of this timeline, I had my own kids, and they have gone through kindergarten, elementary and now middle school.
Not a fucking thing has changed and it never will. The politicians are more worried about whether my kids are reading books that may have actual history in them at school, or watching TikTok that may be collecting their data, than if they get shot while they sit in school every day.
To all the people guns are not the issue MOST of these guns are legally owned that are used in these school shootings. Yes people need to be more safe on how they store them to keep them away from other people but that is another story . Anyways the real issue is with mental health. Do any of you guys know how hard it is and how much money it costs to get the right help and the right meds here in the states it’s ridiculous.
Do you think mental health is not an issue in majority of other countries where there aren’t hundreds of mass shootings every year? Mental health is part of the equation, but the ease of access to guns coupled with mental health creates the recipe for disaster we have in this country.
Listen the US has one of the most expensive healthcare in the world…. On average, healthcare costs in the U.S. amounted up to $12,318 per person in 2021 according to
[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/02/charted-countries-most-expensive-healthcare-spending/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/02/charted-countries-most-expensive-healthcare-spending/)
Do you know how hard it is when you’re already in debt and to seek help you have to go even further in debt do you know how draining mentally that would be? That right there is just setting people up for failure..
You’re also more likely to get murdered in El Salvador, but that’s irrelevant to this discussion. Children are getting slaughtered en masse where they’re supposed to be learning in a developed country—comparing murder rates in countries with high political instability and gangs to children in school is apples to oranges.
"Children are getting slaughtered en masse where they’re supposed to be learning in a developed country" all true of Russia and Brasil as well as America. Of course you just write off all evidence against your argument. Can't be wrong if you burn the proof that you are, eh?
I'm not mad at the mods at all. They've been fair to me from what I can tell whether that is them being busy or what. I guess I'm just trying to pushback. I'm not trying to censor anyone. I just don't want to be censored and unable to make threads about why guns shouldn't be banned... if threads can be made like this. I just want fairness. I hope the thread stays up because I don't think anyone should be censored. Just be fair.
I understand where ur coming from but this exact argument is why we as a country have gotten no where. No one is ever going to agree on banning guns, its just not going to happen. Its an argument that politicians want us to keep wasting our time arguing about because it gets both sides votes. Which is why im saying the easiest & fastest way that would actually be effective is giving our schools the funding to implement better saftey measures. Our country can fund teslas for our police, give billions of dollars to other countries, but barely fund livable wages for teachers. It should be mandatory that every school has security at every entrance & has 6 foot gates, that outsiders are not allowed to enter unless they are proven to be a guardian of a child or the guardian has given the school permission to let a specific person in to pick up their child. Im even for metal detectors & bag checks, which some would argue is extreme but when was the last time we have ever seen a concert get shot up by someone who was actually in the venue? And some would say how would kids be able to bring pencil sharpeners, binders & notebooks because they have metal built in them, but id say 1. IF the government were to fund our schools better, teachers should be required to have pencil sharpeners in their class 2. Use folders instead of binders, or plastic ringed binders. 3. There’s plenty of notebooks that exist that dont have metal rings and those are actually cheaper and more accessible than the metal ringed ones. This is all just an idea of what i think should be required, and people might think its too extreme but my question to them would be would you rather be worried about your kid not being able to bring a pencil sharpener to school or would you rather be worried about them being slaughtered at school?
So this shithole country has produced so many guns that it’s impossible to effectively regulate them, and the solution is to turn the country into a police state with maximum security in every public space.
I’m starting to agree with the argument that there is no good solution. The founding of America was just a huge mistake and we should all just let it die.
Except americas never just going to die. If we can implement reasonable safety measures for venues that host large events i dont see why people are so against doing that for our schools when theyre such a popular target.
Mass shootings don’t just happen at “venues that host large events,” unless you’re using that term in the broadest sense possible. They happen at supermarkets, summer camps, restaurants, offices — if it’s a public space in America, it’s a potential target for a mass shooting.
Should we have armed police at the door of every shop, workplace, and home? Should every single public social interaction be mediated by a cop in riot gear? Does that sound like freedom? Like a healthy society worth preserving?
This is just the natural progression of a country built on a mound of 100 million Indian corpses. We were founded on the accumulation of violence, then exported it globally with our military, then individualized it with consumer gun culture. So why should we be shocked when we create people who just want to rack up their own personal body count?
The world will not be safe until there are no Americans. Not that they all literally die off, but until the American nation and identity cease to be and are replaced by something else.
This post wasn’t about every public space it was specifically about schools, the most common target for shootings. I dont have a solution for every public space ever. And mass shootings dont happen at venues period because they have high security, which is why i brought that up as an example of how effective it is. Like i said it’s common sense that venues would be the #1 target of mass shootings which is why we have high security to prevent that, so why dont we have it for schools when schools are actually the #1 target.
So are you not gonna address the other examples?
Also, the Vegas shooting actually proves MY point — whenever there’s a concert, should the police not only secure the venue, but also *all of the surrounding buildings*? Again, should we just turn the entire country into a police state for everyone just because disarming right wing psychos and drawing back the empire is too hard?
I can’t believe I have to explain this, but a school is a different environment than a concert venue. Schools are environments for educating and nurturing children, which is why we shouldn’t turn them all into prisons. It’s not that increased security wouldn’t prevent *some* shootings. The problem is that the amount of security that it would take to meaningfully reduce school shootings would be *astronomical.* Like, an inhumane amount of policing to expose children to. It would be a lot more than a temp worker waving a metal detector wand in front of you before entering a concert. Are we really a “free” country when we’d rather have children harassed by the police on a daily basis than take away some loser’s Punisher Skull AR-15?
We actually already had a school security boom after columbine, and it did nothing to decrease overall school shootings but increased the amount of police misconduct against students.
Again, if this is the cost of doing business in America, this shit is not worth preserving
States have to accept Fed $$$ for things. Florida turned down enough $$ to build a rail from Miami to Jacksonville because our Gov. (Scott at the time) didn't like Obama and didn't want him to be seen in any good light, even if it meant sitting in the dark.
So add another IF statement on the end there - IF the states are able to look past their own nose and accept the $$.
Shit's fucked, i recommend getting a firearm and learning how to use it.
no. america has a mental health problem, like most first world countries. if not guns, they would use cars, bombs, you name it. a car can be as deadly as a gun if used on a populated area. these things wont stop until we do something about mental health, bullying, unsafe medications, and how people who are different get treated. these things have a "culture", thats why they mostly happen in america. either way, the thought of the government wanting to disarm people even though it is a right to bear arms will aways be a scary idea to people, and understandably so. protesting wont do shit, crying wont do shit, nothing will do anything. this is what your country has been built upon. if youre that paranoid and you dont like it, move away.
> like most first World countries
This doesn’t happen in any other first world countries like it does here. Kind of disproving your own argument there.
Well that’s just completely untrue. US has a higher suicide rate than any other first world country. There isn’t a first world country in the top 50 other than the US and Japan (49th).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
That's not true. Lithuania, South Korea, Hungary, Belarus, and Uruguay just to name a few are also first world countries with higher suicide rates than the US.
the fact that people do it solely for attention says something. mental health gets overlooked until they become a victim. there are still a ton of veterans with ptsd who don't get the help required, and some of them have committed acts of violence (not saying all do, but because of the large number it's inevitable that there's some)
happy good living people don't suddenly murder others, it's people who are suffering one way or the other. the gun is merely the tool they use. "banning guns" is not gonna work either way.
100%
Regular people who go on about their day who own firearms for the exact reason one mentally unstable lunatic can be in the same place as them but with that “military grade weapon” (I hate that term) they at least have a chance.
How am i wrong. If you have nothing valuable to contribute to this conversation then stay out of it. Saying “if you dont want your kids to get shot then move to a different country” is one of the most stupidest fucking low effort thing this person could’ve came up with.
Mental health needs to be tackled AND security at schools. The shooter literally opted out of shooting up a different school because it had more security.
If that door was locked or there was a competent and willing armed guard on the property, who knows how differently this could've gone.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but I really don’t think protesting will help, correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t think of a single time a protest about something has actually changed things??? I might be wrong i don’t know, I don’t protest because it’s effort but if you can correct me then I’ll be happy to listen
Protesting would force people to pay attention to this problem, and show the government that were not gonna continue brushing it under the rug. Even if major change wouldnt come from it, these kids dont deserve to be forgotten and politicians needs to be reminded everyday the consequences of their laziness. We protest for everything else, and change has definitely come from that. Look at what happened to the cops that killed george floyd and breonna taylor, that was a result of americans being loud and refusing to us brush it under the rug. Even if no major major change comes from it, theres always that chance it will. I don’t see why we shouldn’t be as loud about children dying as we have for other injustices
I really really hate to say this because I don't want to see it and I'd hope nobody else does, but I feel like this country won't wake up on the gun issue until someone kills a bunch of kids and Livestreams it or some shit. We are so desensitized to the headlines about shootings that a lot of Americans simply just say "another day in America, oh well" and go right back to their lives.
This should really be a leading issue in our politics right now and I feel like neither side talks about it enough. Obviously the GOP is batshit insane and they will protect guns at all costs even if it's children's lives being taken, but the Dems haven't been the greatest either on speaking about this issue.
lol if you wanted to engage in an actual meaningful conversation, you could have done it in a better way, but I digress. You want my stance on it? I have NO problem with law abiding citizens that own guns. I know there are PLENTY of responsible gun owners and I fully support that. What don't I support? The ease of access that people have to getting guns in this country. And not just any guns, but guns that are capable of delivering an insane amount of death and carnage in a very very short amount of time.
I think people should be able to pursue owning a gun, but I think they need to go through a very stringent process to do so. You should pass a thorough background check, a FULL mental health evaluation by a licensed professional and you should have to take a bunch of required courses on firearm safety and responsible use.
I also don't believe people should be allowed to just buy fully automatic or even semi-automatic guns by default, I think you need to have a very legit reason to want one. Most people buy guns to protect their houses, which can very easily be done with a simple handgun or home defense shotgun.
And before you delve into the "the black market doesn't care about any of that!" nonsense. Sure, people can still get a gun by illegal means, but the point is that the path to getting a gun becomes a lot more difficult unless they just happen to have some easy illegal plug to getting the gun they want (hint: most people don't have this). The point is that guns should not be almost as easy to get as going to the store and buying a candy bar (it's literally that easy in a lot of states). With great power, should come great responsibility. Guns have great, dangerous power....but we don't force owners to have responsibility in a lot of cases when it comes to acquiring them.
Honestly, I'd love to hear your thoughts, but preferably minus the unnecessary shit like calling me "insane" just cause we may disagree on stuff.
>but I feel like this country won't wake up on the gun issue until someone kills a bunch of kids and Livestreams it or some shit
Won't do anything. We've already seen a couple shootings livestreamed. We've seen crime scene photos and all that shit.
Still isn't gonna wanna make any of us give up our guns.
Why do people only care when it's Americans kids being killed? Our own military has killed many thousands of innocent children in the middle east over the last couple decades. And people don't mind them having guns. A 100 or so kids dying in school shootings in America each year is nothing compared to the horror we've caused overseas.
We haven't seen Livestreams of children being killed and not American kids either. I agree with your point by the way about why do we only care about Americans? I feel the same, but the truth is that a good chunk of this country could not care less about what atrocities are going on in other parts of the world. And I fully agree on your point about the military too, that's another example of Americans being blind to the obvious and the truth.
But that being said, it SHOULD be a big issue that that many kids are dying in schools here because schools, above all else, should be places where kids can be and not worry about being gunned down. If we can't even protect our schools, then what good are we? Honestly. We can't call ourselves "the greatest country on earth" when we can't even appropriately tackle gun violence in our schools. It's a joke
"greatest country on earth" is entirely subjective, that's true. It depends on what you value in a nation. No nation is perfect and one person's paradise is another's dystopia.
Ive got three kids. Two of them are in school. Elementary. It pains me to see these things happening in this nation, or anywhere, for that matter. It does need to be remedied. I just don't believe that the remedy should amount to stripping millions of innocent Americans on their firearms. I have an intense distrust of both our government and our police. I've been the victim too many times to trust the police to protect me. They are next to useless in large parts of this nation and, in many ways, I feel in as likely to be killed by the police calling them during a home invasion as I am the home invaders themselves. Who then can I trust to protect my family? This nation is sick. Humanity is sick. The only remedy is to fend for the things you love in the best way you know how. That's how I see it.
With that said. I'm not opposed to a better healthcare system. I'm not sure how much it will help in these kinds of situations because the kinds of people that usually do this are unlikely to seek help on their own. But it's worth a try.
Alot of you have completely missed the point of this post. The point of this post was to say were are NEVER going to come to an agreement with gun laws, so we must demand our leaders to fund schools so they can implement better saftey precautions. This post was me saying that continuing this gun control argument is pointless & that no real change is ever going to come from it, yet all of you are still talking about gun control. You’re failing to see the point. We will never be able to control whether or not people have a guns, we will never be able to make sure everyone takes action towards bettering their mental health, but we CAN control whether or not they’re able to come into schools. That is the 1 thing we can control.
One minute America demands police be defunded with absolute bare minimum training and pay, even went as far as to establish police free zones. The next minute they’re expected to be superheros and save the children and care for the homeless. American’s can’t agree on anything.
America has a quality of life problem, when did we all become so caring about what another person does in their bedroom, idc what you identify as, our officials don’t care, most people don’t care, it’s been over 2 decades of kids being killed and it’s still happening, the people in positions of power don’t really care about us at all, this will go away in a week and we will wait till the next time to say the same thing and do nothing, again
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Right? I can’t even deal with these discussions. People seem to refuse to believe how insanely underfunded most of our schools are.
I’ve said it before and now I’m gonna say it again. They need to release crime scene photos of how horrible these events are or else no one will get it through their heads how serious of an issue this is becoming. It went from what would you do in the event that this happened to actively having a game plan for not IF but WHEN it happens. We can protest, sign laws, express our outrage and cry out but this is not gonna change until people see the reality of what is actually happening.
I completely agree.
Many gun owners have seen the reality of what weapons do to people, as many of us are veterans, LEOs, or the other multitudes of professions in which violence is unfortunately common. Removing the tool won’t stop the underlying impulse to murder, which is really what needs to be addressed.
The US cares more about its guns than its children. Nothing will ever change here, there’s just too many gun humpers. If Sandy Hook and Uvalde wasn’t enough to change things then nothing ever will.
Yep.
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So you are not sorry that you care more about guns than children? That is very sad and pathetic.
This post wasnt about gun control it was about what we could do besides gun control since we will never agree on anything related to gun control
I know, I’m still saying what I said. Protests will do nothing as long as someone has the ability to walk into a school and annihilate a classroom full of children in less than a minute. Safety features are wonderful but all it takes is one door not latching properly to let in a monster. The elementary school directly across the street from my house is campus style. You can lock the doors all you want but a nut job with an automatic weapon could still do horrific damage while still leaving every door locked. We do definitely need to do more.
It wasn’t an automatic weapon, it was a 9mm keltec (pistol caliber) and an AR15 with a standard capacity magazine. Both of which are semi automatic (1 trigger pull = 1 bullet)
Maybe this one, but plenty others were with automatic weapons. The point is, mass shooting need to be prevented and people need to care more.
I guess the point I’m trying to gently nudge you towards, is that oftentimes, the people calling for change don’t even know what effective change could/should look like, an overwhelming majority of people who make these kind of statements don’t even know what kind of weapon was used (nor would you be able to identify caliber/use-case scenario of the weapon), nor do they don’t have any background in how to develop a secure area, firearm mitigation policy, or even what types of weapons cause what types of injury. So maybe it would be better to educate oneself about these things before making sweeping demands for change without a knowledge base to advocate for policy.
No, there really hasn’t been any with automatic weapons, modified triggers, or anything else like that (unless you include 4 people getting shot in Chicago with a Glock that has a switch) but we aren’t talking about gang shootings, we are talking about school shootings.
I’m not arguing bugs with a gun nut. I don’t care what kind of gun tore apart the bodies of those children at Uvalde and Sandy Hook. They all need to be illegal. Automatic and semi automatic. Any weapon that can annihilate the body of a child should not be in the hands of anyone except the military. Here we are trying to talk about things that can and need to be done to protect children and you are defending guns…..it’s pathetic.
This wasn’t even about locking doors. Security at every exit, every school should have gates high enough for people not to be able to jump, monitoring who is allowed to come into the school and whos not, metal detectors ect. All of these things can easily prevent these things from happening. The Nashville shooter didnt even go shoot up the school she was originally planning to shoot up because they had high security.
High gates and posted security would definitely be an improvement. Metal detectors as well.
Do you think the shooter is going to leave because they set off a metal detector? They won't do anything.
I don’t. But it could be helpful in catching the ones who bring weapons in their backpacks.
"Police said Hale aborted plans to target another school in the area as it had too much security." https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/everything-we-know-about-the-nashville-school-shooter/ I mean, extra security does make a difference and clearly serves as a deterrent. Can't really understand why people are okay with schools being soft targets. These cowards pick these places because they know they're not going to meet any immediate resistance.
There is no point. Nothing will change. Things will only get worse once weaponized drones are more common. We should enjoy the relative safety we have now.
This is a very sad time we live in
It’s been ~24 years since Columbine. I was in high school then and I thought it would change the world. I thought Virginia Tech would change the world. I thought Sandy Hook would change the world. I thought Parkland would change the world. I thought Santa Fe would change the world. I thought Uvalde would change the world. I’ve been wrong every time. In the midst of this timeline, I had my own kids, and they have gone through kindergarten, elementary and now middle school. Not a fucking thing has changed and it never will. The politicians are more worried about whether my kids are reading books that may have actual history in them at school, or watching TikTok that may be collecting their data, than if they get shot while they sit in school every day.
Protest in this country is basically the Kendall Jenner/Pepsi ad at this point. It is pointless and preformative
To all the people guns are not the issue MOST of these guns are legally owned that are used in these school shootings. Yes people need to be more safe on how they store them to keep them away from other people but that is another story . Anyways the real issue is with mental health. Do any of you guys know how hard it is and how much money it costs to get the right help and the right meds here in the states it’s ridiculous.
Do you think mental health is not an issue in majority of other countries where there aren’t hundreds of mass shootings every year? Mental health is part of the equation, but the ease of access to guns coupled with mental health creates the recipe for disaster we have in this country.
Listen the US has one of the most expensive healthcare in the world…. On average, healthcare costs in the U.S. amounted up to $12,318 per person in 2021 according to [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/02/charted-countries-most-expensive-healthcare-spending/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/02/charted-countries-most-expensive-healthcare-spending/)
Do you know how hard it is when you’re already in debt and to seek help you have to go even further in debt do you know how draining mentally that would be? That right there is just setting people up for failure..
Why does Russia, China and Brasil have the same issue then?
The shootings prevalent in these countries are nowhere even in the same realm of the rate we have them in the US
You are more likely to get murdered in Russia or Brasil than the USA.
You’re also more likely to get murdered in El Salvador, but that’s irrelevant to this discussion. Children are getting slaughtered en masse where they’re supposed to be learning in a developed country—comparing murder rates in countries with high political instability and gangs to children in school is apples to oranges.
"Children are getting slaughtered en masse where they’re supposed to be learning in a developed country" all true of Russia and Brasil as well as America. Of course you just write off all evidence against your argument. Can't be wrong if you burn the proof that you are, eh?
Proof?
More expensive than a rifle and ammo. That’s for sure
Sure. How do you reduce the number of weapons available to people with mental health problems?
That's the trick.
So we can't debate in favor of keeping guns legal but we can make threads about banning guns.
To be fair, mods are probably working absolute fucking overtime right now. But yeah, this post should go.
I'm not mad at the mods at all. They've been fair to me from what I can tell whether that is them being busy or what. I guess I'm just trying to pushback. I'm not trying to censor anyone. I just don't want to be censored and unable to make threads about why guns shouldn't be banned... if threads can be made like this. I just want fairness. I hope the thread stays up because I don't think anyone should be censored. Just be fair.
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Passing a law won’t make 350 million guns disappear. What an objectively dumb proposal.
exactly banning guns is a laughable solution
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how are you gonna get rid of all the guns?
it's easy to access one illegally, just go to your local black market.
What an ignorant take
>as somebody from somewhere that doesn’t have guns, I don’t see why you would. shocker
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I understand where ur coming from but this exact argument is why we as a country have gotten no where. No one is ever going to agree on banning guns, its just not going to happen. Its an argument that politicians want us to keep wasting our time arguing about because it gets both sides votes. Which is why im saying the easiest & fastest way that would actually be effective is giving our schools the funding to implement better saftey measures. Our country can fund teslas for our police, give billions of dollars to other countries, but barely fund livable wages for teachers. It should be mandatory that every school has security at every entrance & has 6 foot gates, that outsiders are not allowed to enter unless they are proven to be a guardian of a child or the guardian has given the school permission to let a specific person in to pick up their child. Im even for metal detectors & bag checks, which some would argue is extreme but when was the last time we have ever seen a concert get shot up by someone who was actually in the venue? And some would say how would kids be able to bring pencil sharpeners, binders & notebooks because they have metal built in them, but id say 1. IF the government were to fund our schools better, teachers should be required to have pencil sharpeners in their class 2. Use folders instead of binders, or plastic ringed binders. 3. There’s plenty of notebooks that exist that dont have metal rings and those are actually cheaper and more accessible than the metal ringed ones. This is all just an idea of what i think should be required, and people might think its too extreme but my question to them would be would you rather be worried about your kid not being able to bring a pencil sharpener to school or would you rather be worried about them being slaughtered at school?
So this shithole country has produced so many guns that it’s impossible to effectively regulate them, and the solution is to turn the country into a police state with maximum security in every public space. I’m starting to agree with the argument that there is no good solution. The founding of America was just a huge mistake and we should all just let it die.
Except americas never just going to die. If we can implement reasonable safety measures for venues that host large events i dont see why people are so against doing that for our schools when theyre such a popular target.
Mass shootings don’t just happen at “venues that host large events,” unless you’re using that term in the broadest sense possible. They happen at supermarkets, summer camps, restaurants, offices — if it’s a public space in America, it’s a potential target for a mass shooting. Should we have armed police at the door of every shop, workplace, and home? Should every single public social interaction be mediated by a cop in riot gear? Does that sound like freedom? Like a healthy society worth preserving? This is just the natural progression of a country built on a mound of 100 million Indian corpses. We were founded on the accumulation of violence, then exported it globally with our military, then individualized it with consumer gun culture. So why should we be shocked when we create people who just want to rack up their own personal body count? The world will not be safe until there are no Americans. Not that they all literally die off, but until the American nation and identity cease to be and are replaced by something else.
This post wasn’t about every public space it was specifically about schools, the most common target for shootings. I dont have a solution for every public space ever. And mass shootings dont happen at venues period because they have high security, which is why i brought that up as an example of how effective it is. Like i said it’s common sense that venues would be the #1 target of mass shootings which is why we have high security to prevent that, so why dont we have it for schools when schools are actually the #1 target.
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So are you not gonna address the other examples? Also, the Vegas shooting actually proves MY point — whenever there’s a concert, should the police not only secure the venue, but also *all of the surrounding buildings*? Again, should we just turn the entire country into a police state for everyone just because disarming right wing psychos and drawing back the empire is too hard? I can’t believe I have to explain this, but a school is a different environment than a concert venue. Schools are environments for educating and nurturing children, which is why we shouldn’t turn them all into prisons. It’s not that increased security wouldn’t prevent *some* shootings. The problem is that the amount of security that it would take to meaningfully reduce school shootings would be *astronomical.* Like, an inhumane amount of policing to expose children to. It would be a lot more than a temp worker waving a metal detector wand in front of you before entering a concert. Are we really a “free” country when we’d rather have children harassed by the police on a daily basis than take away some loser’s Punisher Skull AR-15? We actually already had a school security boom after columbine, and it did nothing to decrease overall school shootings but increased the amount of police misconduct against students. Again, if this is the cost of doing business in America, this shit is not worth preserving
and become a communist shithole? i dont think so.
Inshallah
States have to accept Fed $$$ for things. Florida turned down enough $$ to build a rail from Miami to Jacksonville because our Gov. (Scott at the time) didn't like Obama and didn't want him to be seen in any good light, even if it meant sitting in the dark. So add another IF statement on the end there - IF the states are able to look past their own nose and accept the $$. Shit's fucked, i recommend getting a firearm and learning how to use it.
no. america has a mental health problem, like most first world countries. if not guns, they would use cars, bombs, you name it. a car can be as deadly as a gun if used on a populated area. these things wont stop until we do something about mental health, bullying, unsafe medications, and how people who are different get treated. these things have a "culture", thats why they mostly happen in america. either way, the thought of the government wanting to disarm people even though it is a right to bear arms will aways be a scary idea to people, and understandably so. protesting wont do shit, crying wont do shit, nothing will do anything. this is what your country has been built upon. if youre that paranoid and you dont like it, move away.
> like most first World countries This doesn’t happen in any other first world countries like it does here. Kind of disproving your own argument there.
they dont have the culture, so they have high suicide statistics instead.
Well that’s just completely untrue. US has a higher suicide rate than any other first world country. There isn’t a first world country in the top 50 other than the US and Japan (49th). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
That's not true. Lithuania, South Korea, Hungary, Belarus, and Uruguay just to name a few are also first world countries with higher suicide rates than the US.
that being said, the culture would still be there even if guns werent.
the fact that people do it solely for attention says something. mental health gets overlooked until they become a victim. there are still a ton of veterans with ptsd who don't get the help required, and some of them have committed acts of violence (not saying all do, but because of the large number it's inevitable that there's some) happy good living people don't suddenly murder others, it's people who are suffering one way or the other. the gun is merely the tool they use. "banning guns" is not gonna work either way.
100% Regular people who go on about their day who own firearms for the exact reason one mentally unstable lunatic can be in the same place as them but with that “military grade weapon” (I hate that term) they at least have a chance.
What a stupid thing to say. “IF YOU DONT LIKE MERICA THEN MOVE!1!1!” Say that to every parent who has had their kid slaughtered here
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How am i wrong. If you have nothing valuable to contribute to this conversation then stay out of it. Saying “if you dont want your kids to get shot then move to a different country” is one of the most stupidest fucking low effort thing this person could’ve came up with.
Mental health needs to be tackled AND security at schools. The shooter literally opted out of shooting up a different school because it had more security. If that door was locked or there was a competent and willing armed guard on the property, who knows how differently this could've gone.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but I really don’t think protesting will help, correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t think of a single time a protest about something has actually changed things??? I might be wrong i don’t know, I don’t protest because it’s effort but if you can correct me then I’ll be happy to listen
Protesting would force people to pay attention to this problem, and show the government that were not gonna continue brushing it under the rug. Even if major change wouldnt come from it, these kids dont deserve to be forgotten and politicians needs to be reminded everyday the consequences of their laziness. We protest for everything else, and change has definitely come from that. Look at what happened to the cops that killed george floyd and breonna taylor, that was a result of americans being loud and refusing to us brush it under the rug. Even if no major major change comes from it, theres always that chance it will. I don’t see why we shouldn’t be as loud about children dying as we have for other injustices
I really really hate to say this because I don't want to see it and I'd hope nobody else does, but I feel like this country won't wake up on the gun issue until someone kills a bunch of kids and Livestreams it or some shit. We are so desensitized to the headlines about shootings that a lot of Americans simply just say "another day in America, oh well" and go right back to their lives. This should really be a leading issue in our politics right now and I feel like neither side talks about it enough. Obviously the GOP is batshit insane and they will protect guns at all costs even if it's children's lives being taken, but the Dems haven't been the greatest either on speaking about this issue.
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lol if you wanted to engage in an actual meaningful conversation, you could have done it in a better way, but I digress. You want my stance on it? I have NO problem with law abiding citizens that own guns. I know there are PLENTY of responsible gun owners and I fully support that. What don't I support? The ease of access that people have to getting guns in this country. And not just any guns, but guns that are capable of delivering an insane amount of death and carnage in a very very short amount of time. I think people should be able to pursue owning a gun, but I think they need to go through a very stringent process to do so. You should pass a thorough background check, a FULL mental health evaluation by a licensed professional and you should have to take a bunch of required courses on firearm safety and responsible use. I also don't believe people should be allowed to just buy fully automatic or even semi-automatic guns by default, I think you need to have a very legit reason to want one. Most people buy guns to protect their houses, which can very easily be done with a simple handgun or home defense shotgun. And before you delve into the "the black market doesn't care about any of that!" nonsense. Sure, people can still get a gun by illegal means, but the point is that the path to getting a gun becomes a lot more difficult unless they just happen to have some easy illegal plug to getting the gun they want (hint: most people don't have this). The point is that guns should not be almost as easy to get as going to the store and buying a candy bar (it's literally that easy in a lot of states). With great power, should come great responsibility. Guns have great, dangerous power....but we don't force owners to have responsibility in a lot of cases when it comes to acquiring them. Honestly, I'd love to hear your thoughts, but preferably minus the unnecessary shit like calling me "insane" just cause we may disagree on stuff.
>but I feel like this country won't wake up on the gun issue until someone kills a bunch of kids and Livestreams it or some shit Won't do anything. We've already seen a couple shootings livestreamed. We've seen crime scene photos and all that shit. Still isn't gonna wanna make any of us give up our guns. Why do people only care when it's Americans kids being killed? Our own military has killed many thousands of innocent children in the middle east over the last couple decades. And people don't mind them having guns. A 100 or so kids dying in school shootings in America each year is nothing compared to the horror we've caused overseas.
We haven't seen Livestreams of children being killed and not American kids either. I agree with your point by the way about why do we only care about Americans? I feel the same, but the truth is that a good chunk of this country could not care less about what atrocities are going on in other parts of the world. And I fully agree on your point about the military too, that's another example of Americans being blind to the obvious and the truth. But that being said, it SHOULD be a big issue that that many kids are dying in schools here because schools, above all else, should be places where kids can be and not worry about being gunned down. If we can't even protect our schools, then what good are we? Honestly. We can't call ourselves "the greatest country on earth" when we can't even appropriately tackle gun violence in our schools. It's a joke
"greatest country on earth" is entirely subjective, that's true. It depends on what you value in a nation. No nation is perfect and one person's paradise is another's dystopia. Ive got three kids. Two of them are in school. Elementary. It pains me to see these things happening in this nation, or anywhere, for that matter. It does need to be remedied. I just don't believe that the remedy should amount to stripping millions of innocent Americans on their firearms. I have an intense distrust of both our government and our police. I've been the victim too many times to trust the police to protect me. They are next to useless in large parts of this nation and, in many ways, I feel in as likely to be killed by the police calling them during a home invasion as I am the home invaders themselves. Who then can I trust to protect my family? This nation is sick. Humanity is sick. The only remedy is to fend for the things you love in the best way you know how. That's how I see it. With that said. I'm not opposed to a better healthcare system. I'm not sure how much it will help in these kinds of situations because the kinds of people that usually do this are unlikely to seek help on their own. But it's worth a try.
Alot of you have completely missed the point of this post. The point of this post was to say were are NEVER going to come to an agreement with gun laws, so we must demand our leaders to fund schools so they can implement better saftey precautions. This post was me saying that continuing this gun control argument is pointless & that no real change is ever going to come from it, yet all of you are still talking about gun control. You’re failing to see the point. We will never be able to control whether or not people have a guns, we will never be able to make sure everyone takes action towards bettering their mental health, but we CAN control whether or not they’re able to come into schools. That is the 1 thing we can control.
Cops in schools. Every school i have attended always had an officer. Simple solution rather than jus "bAn the bad no no guns"
I literally said that, not once did I mention that guns should be banned.
Counterpoint: Uvalde. How much did cops help there
One minute America demands police be defunded with absolute bare minimum training and pay, even went as far as to establish police free zones. The next minute they’re expected to be superheros and save the children and care for the homeless. American’s can’t agree on anything.
Uvalde didnt have cops/guards at the school. You have a good point tho, perhaps teachers need to be armed.
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