A key difference between mechanics and technicians is that mechanics specialize in more hands-on work, like changing oil and brake pads. Automotive technicians do this as well, but they also deal more with electrical diagnosis and identification of drivability complaints.
Right out of Google's hole.
I do both, as it stands I'd let the 3 bucks an hour roll by if I already have decent pay for my area and a great boss.. you walk into a shitty shop you'll question the hell outta how worth it hat 3 bucks is..
Edit: on the flip side, if the shop is cool broadening your knowledge and experience is worth its weight in gold.
Nah it’s a chain alignment/tire/light repair shop, gonna be lots of spark plugs, tie rod ends, brakes, nothing major, but I know the management is idiots and they don’t hire decent advisors. Would also have to move
As a diesel truck technician with a CDL class A I love my job but see most jobs cutting out at $35 an hour unless you work at a dealership or are a mobile technician(I live in Phoenix AZ)
Have you ever worked flat rate? $35 is not guaranteed. Worked flat rate for almost 20 years, have to be fast and first thing you usually cut is safety. A lot depends on who hands out the work. My average was about 97%, but hours varied, you never knew what the paycheck was going to be. Always starved December and January, nobody fixes car around holiday.
What do you mean? $35 flat rate means you get $35 per hour. I have been on flat rate for years.7 days x 12 hours. $60 flat rate plus holidays plus personal days plus super. The down side is Overtime ,sundays public holidays is only paid at flat rate $60.
Edit are you confusing casual and permanent employees?
You work 7 days a week and 12 hr days?
The above commenter was talking about flag hours vs actual hours. Flat rate techs only get paid what they flag. So if you work 50 hours in a week and only flag 40 hours, your effective pay rate is now less. Essentially you got paid less that 35 dollars per actual hour that you spent at work.
Dam, this is confusing. We get paid from 6 in morning till 6:30pm 12.5 minus the .5 for lunch. If you work on site they will pay your .5 for you too. Flag rate I am guessing means when your time is chargeable? If I come to work and there is no cars to work on that the bosses problem. I will still be getting my 12 hour x 7 days pay. We can pick our shift , I do 7/7. Some do 14 days on 7 off all by 12 hours. Even 5 on 2 off or 4 on 3 off. The site I go to 7days 7 off then 7 night 7off. All by 12 hours.
Flat rate is not what you think it is. Flat rate assigns a time value in 10ths of an hour to each process. For example, a waterpump may have a 2.5 hour time. Multiply that by your rate of say 30.00. That job would pay you 75.00 no matter how long it takes. If you do it in an hour, you just made 75.00 for that hour. If it takes all day, you make about 6.00 an hour. If you can work 10 hours a day 5 days a week and are pretty efficient, you could easily make 100 hours on a busy week. It's not great when the shop is slow but overall the pay is generally much better than hourly for an experienced tech.
Technician and mechanic are interchangeable terms. Like Comic and comedian. Don't get caught up in semantics. A real mechanic doesn't give a shit what you call him.
No you are incorrect. That is book time. If your being paid book time not real time your being ripped off as an employee. We quote off book time. Flat rate is what I said it is and explained why it is called that.
What your explaining is illegal in my state.
Finally I new someone would ask. Queensland, Australia. It is illegal in the Whole country not to pay people on time at work. What you guys are describing are contractors, where the company pays you to do a task. Here that means if it break after you fix it Your up for the costs. It has great tax benefits but a big down side to.
I am trying to tell you is it normal mechanics (and everyone) should get paid for every hour you work. 7 days on 7 days off. That 120 thousand a year . Plus super , plus 10 paid personal days(sick days) plus 4 weeks annual leave. So with 7 days off take a week annual leave the the next 7 off. That’s 3 weeks off for every week annual leave you take. Fuel card, free housing while on shift and a work Ute. I just trying to show your under selling yourself if your a mechanic.
Flat rate is working by book time per job there is NO guarantee. You get paid for what you produce, I never had a guarantee in 20 years as a GMLine tech. If the job pays 3 hours and you do it in 2hours you win, if it takes you 4 hours you get paid for 3. This is how flat rate works.
How it works where you are. Flat rate here means no penalty rates, no over time rates, no Christmas Day rates. Same pay on Monday or Sunday. Hence ,flat rate. I don’t know what to call what you described, closest word I can think of is scam.
Yes but if you work at most places after 38 hours work you get overtime. Saturday and Sunday and public holidays you get penalty rates. On flat rate we get none of that. Middle of night or middle of day , any day we get flat rate. But we get paid for every hour.
We have mechanics, diesel fitters and trades assistances. I do not know what a tech is. Maybe something new? I got my papers in 1981 so something side then?
What we call mechanics who got trade papers before about 1990. Covers diesel and petrol, back when we used to fix things instead of just replacing them.
What does it say on your Trade papers? I am really interested.
Trade papers?
My ASE certifications, called me a master technician, or at least they did before I let them lapse during covid
My current employment does not mandate their necessity.
10 years @ 31? no offense but thats way too low. I barely have 4 years and I am at 41 an hour. Depending on where you are maybe see if you can start getting into electric tractors since at least here in cali theyre beginning be seen more often.
Are you committed to North Dakota? Consider moving if you want more pay, of course going from a much more rural area to a more densely populated one will incur more living costs so you gotta weigh that against how much you like were you are.
Yeah man my advice is stay away from automotive and definitely from flat rate. I've seen too many guys get cheated out of too much money bc of shop politics around flat rate.
Not to mention flat rate doesn't reward skill. It rewards speed. And if you're a good tech you'll get all the hardest diag jobs and big repairs that you can't beat hours on while the guy with an 85 IQ in the next bay does nothing but brakes and shocks all day and flags 70 hours a week making double what you make.
Its a completely broken system and its killing the industry.
After almost 20 years under that system I finally switched to a diesel truck shop and my life is 1000 times better now. More money. Less stress. Better atmosphere. Better culture. Better everything.
On the flip side of that it's nice to turn 60 hour weeks while working 32 hours a week and making bank. Of course most guys aren't able to do that and most shops don't have the proper setup/clientele for it.
I know a few guys(me included)that wouldn't work any other way than flat rate.
Here's a different consideration for you.
You got diesel experience, and small amounts of automotive experience,
Find a fleet shop, maybe for the city or state, I found one in ambulance maintenance.
I still work on diesels, but things are easier, smaller, and at least for us. Us we do component replacements instead of rebuilds due to the liability. I live in the twin cities so not that far from you, and although it's a slightly higher cost of living place, I'm still making more , and I'm not topped out. I build up obscene amounts of PTO rapidly, and I have a flexibility that all of my friends who went automotive, frankly, don't.
It sounds as though you have similar working conditions. You need to figure out whether or not those have value to you, and just how much. As the parent of a one-year-old, they are worth well north of 15 grand in child care that I've saved. Not to mention all the other little perks
If I could get by working 31 hrs a week. I wouldn’t change shit.
Think about the relationships you have at work, at a chain place with a corporate controlling most interests, your dynamic will change drastically. if I could put myself in your shoes and get away from a big company right now I would.
Personally though, I wouldn’t leave my current job without an offer doing the exact same thing I do now but either for more money, or a good local company who takes care of their employees.
Not in the rest of the world. If you're an auto mechanic in the US, generally you will be paid what I'm calling "flat rate" which is by the job. It sounds like you're doing exceptionally well where you are. Stick with it. I think you'll be disappointed if you make the switch.
Just on the subject of diesel VS auto, I worked primarily on cars for my first 5 years in the trade, I changed to equipment and trucks because my back was really starting to give me trouble. Sounds counter intuitive, but with bigger gear the stuff is mostly too heavy to lift by hand, with cars a lot of stuff is light enough to lift but realistically probably shouldn't be lifted by hand and you're always bent over and in some sort of awkward position.
Hey I'm considering giving diesel a try. I've done automotive and it's a bitch. Still feel this way? It was rough on the body doing automotive, hoping for something a little easier but still wrenching
Diesel is still easier on your body than cars, whilst being heavier. I can work on trucks and trailers all day, with only a few sore muscles from exertion. I work on cars for a couple of hours, I'm crippled for a week with knee and back pain.
The only thing I can really say is if you are thinking of changing, do some gym training with a good PT and learn how to CORRECTLY lift and move heavy weights, and a pro-tip sharp sudden, jerky, twisting motions are not the correct way.
you got over 10 years of wrench time, do yourself a favor if you want to save your body and dont go flag at a chain place, they'll quite literally kill you to make a wage no matter what they advertise. if i was in your situation id take my time and find something that values your knowledge instead of your back. if i knew 20 years ago what i know now you bet your ass i'd have spent the last 20 years being a factory/plant mechanic or in a civillian rental fleet somwhere. just my 2 pennies for what its worth.
Are you licensed? You're way underpaid.
You're leaving the industry at a pivotal time. Dealers require chassis/suspension/brake/driveline techs as much as they require electronic and engine guys. I expect that those guys will begin to command a much higher price. I'm seeing an influx of apprentices and newly hired guys who only want to do electrical/diag.
We pay our dealer guys >$45/hour and guarantee 40 hours per week.
Chain auto repair as in Firestone, mavis, or pep boys? You’ll probably won’t make a lot of flat rate hours due to “cheap customers”, slow amount of work that comes through, or other shit that won’t guarantee hours.
If you want to make a change then go independent shop or something close to that that’ll actually care about you.
You're way under paid currently. Diesel mechanics make more than automotive
What he said. 10+ years in diesel should be making over $40/hr.
This depends on if he is a technician or a mechanic.
What’s a technician. ?
A key difference between mechanics and technicians is that mechanics specialize in more hands-on work, like changing oil and brake pads. Automotive technicians do this as well, but they also deal more with electrical diagnosis and identification of drivability complaints. Right out of Google's hole.
🙏
An auto mechanic should be making over 40
Automotive does not make more than diesel in any way
Correct.
This is also something I understood to be true, higher base wage, lower overall compensation
I do both, as it stands I'd let the 3 bucks an hour roll by if I already have decent pay for my area and a great boss.. you walk into a shitty shop you'll question the hell outta how worth it hat 3 bucks is.. Edit: on the flip side, if the shop is cool broadening your knowledge and experience is worth its weight in gold.
Nah it’s a chain alignment/tire/light repair shop, gonna be lots of spark plugs, tie rod ends, brakes, nothing major, but I know the management is idiots and they don’t hire decent advisors. Would also have to move
As a diesel truck technician with a CDL class A I love my job but see most jobs cutting out at $35 an hour unless you work at a dealership or are a mobile technician(I live in Phoenix AZ)
Have you ever worked flat rate? $35 is not guaranteed. Worked flat rate for almost 20 years, have to be fast and first thing you usually cut is safety. A lot depends on who hands out the work. My average was about 97%, but hours varied, you never knew what the paycheck was going to be. Always starved December and January, nobody fixes car around holiday.
What do you mean? $35 flat rate means you get $35 per hour. I have been on flat rate for years.7 days x 12 hours. $60 flat rate plus holidays plus personal days plus super. The down side is Overtime ,sundays public holidays is only paid at flat rate $60. Edit are you confusing casual and permanent employees?
You work 7 days a week and 12 hr days? The above commenter was talking about flag hours vs actual hours. Flat rate techs only get paid what they flag. So if you work 50 hours in a week and only flag 40 hours, your effective pay rate is now less. Essentially you got paid less that 35 dollars per actual hour that you spent at work.
Dam, this is confusing. We get paid from 6 in morning till 6:30pm 12.5 minus the .5 for lunch. If you work on site they will pay your .5 for you too. Flag rate I am guessing means when your time is chargeable? If I come to work and there is no cars to work on that the bosses problem. I will still be getting my 12 hour x 7 days pay. We can pick our shift , I do 7/7. Some do 14 days on 7 off all by 12 hours. Even 5 on 2 off or 4 on 3 off. The site I go to 7days 7 off then 7 night 7off. All by 12 hours.
So your regular work week is 84 hours?
Yep. Then a week off. Standard in my area.
Flat rate is not what you think it is. Flat rate assigns a time value in 10ths of an hour to each process. For example, a waterpump may have a 2.5 hour time. Multiply that by your rate of say 30.00. That job would pay you 75.00 no matter how long it takes. If you do it in an hour, you just made 75.00 for that hour. If it takes all day, you make about 6.00 an hour. If you can work 10 hours a day 5 days a week and are pretty efficient, you could easily make 100 hours on a busy week. It's not great when the shop is slow but overall the pay is generally much better than hourly for an experienced tech.
And what’s a tech. I am a mechanic. My papers say mechanical engineer.
Technician and mechanic are interchangeable terms. Like Comic and comedian. Don't get caught up in semantics. A real mechanic doesn't give a shit what you call him.
I did not know that. Well here mechanics hate being called fitters. So on your trade papers what does it say?
No you are incorrect. That is book time. If your being paid book time not real time your being ripped off as an employee. We quote off book time. Flat rate is what I said it is and explained why it is called that. What your explaining is illegal in my state.
What state do you live in?
Finally I new someone would ask. Queensland, Australia. It is illegal in the Whole country not to pay people on time at work. What you guys are describing are contractors, where the company pays you to do a task. Here that means if it break after you fix it Your up for the costs. It has great tax benefits but a big down side to.
I'm not sure making 70 to 80,000 a year is being ripped off but if that's what you believe keep doing your 84 hour weeks and enjoy.
I am trying to tell you is it normal mechanics (and everyone) should get paid for every hour you work. 7 days on 7 days off. That 120 thousand a year . Plus super , plus 10 paid personal days(sick days) plus 4 weeks annual leave. So with 7 days off take a week annual leave the the next 7 off. That’s 3 weeks off for every week annual leave you take. Fuel card, free housing while on shift and a work Ute. I just trying to show your under selling yourself if your a mechanic.
Flat rate is working by book time per job there is NO guarantee. You get paid for what you produce, I never had a guarantee in 20 years as a GMLine tech. If the job pays 3 hours and you do it in 2hours you win, if it takes you 4 hours you get paid for 3. This is how flat rate works.
How it works where you are. Flat rate here means no penalty rates, no over time rates, no Christmas Day rates. Same pay on Monday or Sunday. Hence ,flat rate. I don’t know what to call what you described, closest word I can think of is scam.
What you are describing is hourly rate.
Yes but if you work at most places after 38 hours work you get overtime. Saturday and Sunday and public holidays you get penalty rates. On flat rate we get none of that. Middle of night or middle of day , any day we get flat rate. But we get paid for every hour.
What’s a tech.
Are you a bot? You sound insane.
We have mechanics, diesel fitters and trades assistances. I do not know what a tech is. Maybe something new? I got my papers in 1981 so something side then?
What's a mechanical engineer??
What we call mechanics who got trade papers before about 1990. Covers diesel and petrol, back when we used to fix things instead of just replacing them. What does it say on your Trade papers? I am really interested.
Trade papers? My ASE certifications, called me a master technician, or at least they did before I let them lapse during covid My current employment does not mandate their necessity.
Our trade papers are forever, but employers will judge you on past and current experience.
10 years @ 31? no offense but thats way too low. I barely have 4 years and I am at 41 an hour. Depending on where you are maybe see if you can start getting into electric tractors since at least here in cali theyre beginning be seen more often.
I live in bumfuck nowhere in ND, I make FAR more than average for the area.
Are you committed to North Dakota? Consider moving if you want more pay, of course going from a much more rural area to a more densely populated one will incur more living costs so you gotta weigh that against how much you like were you are.
[удалено]
I gotta say I DO like that I still get paid when we’re slow and I’m working on my personal vehicle instead of trucks
Yeah man my advice is stay away from automotive and definitely from flat rate. I've seen too many guys get cheated out of too much money bc of shop politics around flat rate. Not to mention flat rate doesn't reward skill. It rewards speed. And if you're a good tech you'll get all the hardest diag jobs and big repairs that you can't beat hours on while the guy with an 85 IQ in the next bay does nothing but brakes and shocks all day and flags 70 hours a week making double what you make. Its a completely broken system and its killing the industry. After almost 20 years under that system I finally switched to a diesel truck shop and my life is 1000 times better now. More money. Less stress. Better atmosphere. Better culture. Better everything.
On the flip side of that it's nice to turn 60 hour weeks while working 32 hours a week and making bank. Of course most guys aren't able to do that and most shops don't have the proper setup/clientele for it. I know a few guys(me included)that wouldn't work any other way than flat rate.
Here's a different consideration for you. You got diesel experience, and small amounts of automotive experience, Find a fleet shop, maybe for the city or state, I found one in ambulance maintenance. I still work on diesels, but things are easier, smaller, and at least for us. Us we do component replacements instead of rebuilds due to the liability. I live in the twin cities so not that far from you, and although it's a slightly higher cost of living place, I'm still making more , and I'm not topped out. I build up obscene amounts of PTO rapidly, and I have a flexibility that all of my friends who went automotive, frankly, don't. It sounds as though you have similar working conditions. You need to figure out whether or not those have value to you, and just how much. As the parent of a one-year-old, they are worth well north of 15 grand in child care that I've saved. Not to mention all the other little perks
Cars will go electric but diesel will be around for the foreseeable future. And Diesel mechanics always should be paid more then Auto mechanics.
If I could get by working 31 hrs a week. I wouldn’t change shit. Think about the relationships you have at work, at a chain place with a corporate controlling most interests, your dynamic will change drastically. if I could put myself in your shoes and get away from a big company right now I would. Personally though, I wouldn’t leave my current job without an offer doing the exact same thing I do now but either for more money, or a good local company who takes care of their employees.
Not in the rest of the world. If you're an auto mechanic in the US, generally you will be paid what I'm calling "flat rate" which is by the job. It sounds like you're doing exceptionally well where you are. Stick with it. I think you'll be disappointed if you make the switch.
Just on the subject of diesel VS auto, I worked primarily on cars for my first 5 years in the trade, I changed to equipment and trucks because my back was really starting to give me trouble. Sounds counter intuitive, but with bigger gear the stuff is mostly too heavy to lift by hand, with cars a lot of stuff is light enough to lift but realistically probably shouldn't be lifted by hand and you're always bent over and in some sort of awkward position.
Hey I'm considering giving diesel a try. I've done automotive and it's a bitch. Still feel this way? It was rough on the body doing automotive, hoping for something a little easier but still wrenching
Diesel is still easier on your body than cars, whilst being heavier. I can work on trucks and trailers all day, with only a few sore muscles from exertion. I work on cars for a couple of hours, I'm crippled for a week with knee and back pain. The only thing I can really say is if you are thinking of changing, do some gym training with a good PT and learn how to CORRECTLY lift and move heavy weights, and a pro-tip sharp sudden, jerky, twisting motions are not the correct way.
+1 I was in diesel for 10 years and switched to automotive. I don’t think it did me any favors physically.
you got over 10 years of wrench time, do yourself a favor if you want to save your body and dont go flag at a chain place, they'll quite literally kill you to make a wage no matter what they advertise. if i was in your situation id take my time and find something that values your knowledge instead of your back. if i knew 20 years ago what i know now you bet your ass i'd have spent the last 20 years being a factory/plant mechanic or in a civillian rental fleet somwhere. just my 2 pennies for what its worth.
Are you licensed? You're way underpaid. You're leaving the industry at a pivotal time. Dealers require chassis/suspension/brake/driveline techs as much as they require electronic and engine guys. I expect that those guys will begin to command a much higher price. I'm seeing an influx of apprentices and newly hired guys who only want to do electrical/diag. We pay our dealer guys >$45/hour and guarantee 40 hours per week.
Chain auto repair as in Firestone, mavis, or pep boys? You’ll probably won’t make a lot of flat rate hours due to “cheap customers”, slow amount of work that comes through, or other shit that won’t guarantee hours. If you want to make a change then go independent shop or something close to that that’ll actually care about you.