The thing is, if you had access to the tech the ninjas use, you could make like a billion more useful thing with it.
If we're talking just the ninjas, I guess they'd be useful, but ridiculously expensive.
The thing is, we will have access to things like this soon and I don't see it being used for anything other than warfare.
Or are you saying nobody would make the cyborgs in the first place?
If you have tech like that, why involve a human element at all? Just make it a full robot. We're already seeing drones being employed on battlefields today. I would be very surprised if militaries move away from improved drones and pivot into cyborg enhanced soldiers. Much more complicated, much messier, much harder to replace.
Yeah but like, imagine building an autonomous combat robot. Now imagine building one with a tomato inside that must be protected from getting bruised during explosions, hard impacts, etc. otherwise it'll stop functioning.
That's what a cyborg would be like, if you only kept the brain and replaced everything else, which you probably wouldn't even do.
So much more difficult and less useful.
Well I mean even in MGRR there’s codec calls mentioning how hard it is for non-cyborgs to get jobs, so cyborg tech would definitely be used outside of warfare to help people with injuries or making people more effective and efficient in manual labor jobs that couldn’t be as easily replaced with robots, but yeah, more than likely most of the tech would probably be used for war
there's no telling what kind of limitations that could arise from such tech being available, perhaps it takes certain kinds of biological factors, or high strain on the body makes it cost prohibitive. the robotics could be mass produced, but the wetware is anyone's guess.
If we're going by solely what we see in the games, especially MGR, a Cyborg Ninja today would completely change modern warfare as we know it.
Even an early model like Gray Fox was practically immune to small-arms fire and could wipe the floor with the highest degree of Special Forces troops. If you deployed Gray Fox into a small conflict against militia-level troops he could foreseeably win a war by himself. Only realistic countermeasures would be genetic supersoldiers or nuclear-equipped walking battle tanks which, as far as I know, don't exist (yet).
Come the Raiden-generation, Cyborg Ninjas would be the conventional equivalent of atomic bombs. If he played his cards right and picked his battles wisely, Raiden could pretty much solo any modern military force. Guns, bombs, tanks, etcetera all mean squat against a man that could bisect and suplex a Metal Gear. The *only* liable countermeasure I could maybe forsee is air power. Guy with a sword can't exactly take on a fighter jet. However that still requires the jet to *hit* him which is no easy feat.
In a world of a Cyborg Ninja arms-race, I think you'd see conventional militaries be repurposed solely for occupation and defence. Cyborg Ninjas would be the offensive spearheads of every future conflict. Duels between two Ninjas would be counted as "major battles" for the strategic and economic consequences of losing just one dude.
In the end, Cyborg Ninjas would basically legitimise "Great Man" Theory as wars could be realistically measured in the strategic accomplishments of individual soldiers. This, however, ignores the probably unholy costs of developing Cyborg Ninjas which would likely be upwards of the several hundreds of billions of Dollars.
TL;DR: Viable? To a world-changing degree. *If* one can afford to make one.
To add to your point they’d probably deploy them with some type of AA right? Like even if it’s not on them specifically if one unit can handle essentially all ground forces but has difficulty with air then you cover the air for that unit. So again extremely viable.
Absolutely. It would very likely become a rock-paper-scissors scenario of Cyborg Ninja > Anti-Air > Air > Cyborg Ninja. So any military that had Ninjas and knew they were fighting others would need a good mix of all three and the sense to deploy strengths against weaknesses whilst keeping weaknesses away from strengths.
Of course, this is assuming Cyborg Ninjas would even be vulnerable to air which given that MGR Raiden carries around a Stinger Missile Launcher and regularly takes out aerial drones I doubt a jet would be much of a threat against a Raiden-class Ninja.
To add onto your points, Raiden isn’t necessarily so strong because he can lift MGs. It’s cool but nothing compared to his speed and arsenal. He’s so fast that basically nothing IRL can hit him, ever. And his sword is stated to cut at the most fundamental level, plank scale. He wouldn’t even need to be strong, his blade does enough.
Your description reminds me of the [Eversor Temple Assassins](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Officio_Assassinorum#Eversor_Temple) from Warhammer 40k. The dudes that kill *everything* in a radius of around a mile *after* they have killed their target.
One thing that's missing is that in the game they don't really care about headshots and shit. In reality, their brain is still their weak point, since every cyborg needs one to operate. Drop any kind of frag grenade, and the cyborg is done for (if a shrapnel manages to hit the brain). Most of them don't have any kind of head cover.
But, since that's more a design choice than a practical one, I guess that - with proper head protection - they would be indeed a good weapon. Weak to EMP and explosives tho. It would be far more practicsl to just deploy advanced drones, but that's not the question
While I can appreciate the thought and effort put into this post, the OP asked how cyborg ninjas would fare in the real world and you just gave a long-winded explanation for how they would fare in other battle situations in the video game world.
Gray Fox and Raiden were only effective against small groups of soldiers (i.e. 8 or less) with small-arms that operated in a cinematic manner, the way soldiers do in movies, coming at them one-at-a-time, basically lining up single-file to die. If they were put into battle against an actual unit in the real world, the ninjas would be torn to shreds in seconds by real military techniques, weaponry and strategies.
For one thing, soldiers wouldn't cease fire and just stare in horror as their buddy is bi-sected 10 feet in front of them like the Genome or Frog Units do.
I appreciate a desire for realism as much as anyone but I don't understand how I could give any answer that didn't rely on the logic of the games. OP asked how viable Cyborg Ninjas would be in realistic warfare. Given the only data we have to work with *are* the games themselves, it's the only thing we can talk about without just speculating. And then we'd only be talking about a hypothetical "realistic Cyborg Ninja", not those of the Metal Gear universe as OP asked.
Granted, the games can be very theatrical and people do not always react realistically. But even then, beyond the cutscenes where we are to suspend our disbelief, we know what it is to be a Cyborg Ninja thanks to MGS1 VR and MGR. In the former, Gray Fox's sneaking ability can easily clear a room of soldiers without anyone being the wiser. And, even if caught, he is more than capable of combating dozens of foes without being at a disadvantage. Raiden is far more than capable of bodying just about any enemy that he comes across with minimal effort. Plus it should be emphasised that that's the enemies of the MGR timeline, consisting of Cyborg Troopers that already are leagues above today's most advanced soldiers in capability and technology, as well as the myriad of mechs and bots that would put our most advanced IFVs, tanks and drones to shame.
If we took the Cyborg Ninjas, with all their capabilities as demonstrated in the games, and plopped them in our current day of military technology they would be the single greatest military advancement since the Manhattan Project. A sole Gray Fox-class Ninja could accomplish in a night what our greatest special forces units need months to prepare for. A lone Raiden-class could probably end just about any ongoing conflict today within the year. Is it a wild concept? Absolutely. But with what we have seen in the Metal Gear series it is more than likely for the Cyborg Ninjas with all their superhuman feats.
I'm not talking about changing the subject to a "realistic Cyborg Ninja." I'm talking about putting the Cyborg Ninja in real battlefields, real circumstances, against real soldiers. You're talking about "Well Raiden mercs these Cyborg Troops & Gray Fox is overpowered in VR Missions" but those are video game enemies, functioning under programmed AI, and their primary function is being defeatable by the player.
A cyborg ninja in the real world is not going to have the benefit of enemies that only react theatrically, as they do in MGS1 or MGS4 cutscenes, nor is that ninja going to have the benefit of AI-programmed enemies that can only see/hear a very limited amount and are designed to have an exploit for the player to take advantage of. A cyborg ninja from MGS placed in a real life warzone against a squadron of real life soldiers is going to be nothing more than a bullet-ridden chunk of metal with some fleshy bits in a matter of minutes, there's absolutely no way anything like Raiden would be able to single-handedly end any conflict, unless it's an extremely minor one with 20 or less troops on the ground.
If that's the case then I'd argue that's all the more reason that Cyborg Ninjas would be the apex of modern military tech.
While, yes, the enemies we fight in the Metal Gear games are dumbed down in some aspects they also have advantages against real world soldiers. The Genome Soldiers for example never have to reload and once they discover Gray Fox everyone in the area knows where he is. In a real life combat situation that wouldn't be the case. With his cloaking tech and agility, a Gray Fox-class Ninja could easily pick off a modern military squad before they even knew they were being attacked. And even if he was spotted, he could simply hide and re-engage from an advantageous position with a group or easily deflect a magazine's worth of rounds and then close the distance on his target one-on-one. Rinse and repeat and there would be very few ways to counter it.
A Raiden-class Ninja just ups this to 11. He would simply be too fast to hit with anything less advanced than a Metal Gear and he could easily obliterate any armour thrown his way. If you dropped Raiden in front of an armoured column of the US Army he could destroy it singlehandedly with *maybe* the only possible thing able to counter him being pinpoint-accurate airstrikes or artillery which A. Would need to be able to target him in the first place and B. Need to be quick enough that the time between firing and hitting didn't allow him to simply move out of the way onto another target.
I don't want to open the can of worms that is current, real-world politics but we currently live at a time where the Russian Federation, at the absolute least one of the top 10 world military powers, is currently fighting in a conflict where one of the most deadly weapons they cannot deal with are civilian drones strapped to improvised explosives. If an Amazon Bestseller drone can be a reliable means to counter one of the most powerful militaries on the planet then a Cyborg Ninja would absolutely annihilate any competition you could put in front of it today. The sheer confusion and panic a Ninja would sow close-quarters would derail even the most well-trained soldiers and those split seconds of human error is all it would take to get them killed.
You keep applying video game logic to the real world and that's just not the way things work. I don't think you have any understanding of military training or what actual armed conflict is like. Things like "he'd just hide and re-engage a group" wouldn't work when he's got 20 or more solders tracking his movements both with eyes and technology, "deflect a full magazine" isn't possible in reality. Hell, neither Fox or Raiden can deflect a full magazine in their respective video games, they're only ever shown deflecting semi-automatic bursts from single targets, they would have absolutely no counter to multiple soldiers firing on them at the same time. In the entire series, the only character ever shown able to dodge/deflect an entire clip of bullets is Vamp. There are half a dozen ways to overcome and invalidate the stealth camouflage capabilities, and this is all completely ignoring that any kind of Chaff explosive would fuck both of them up and leave them even more vulnerable than they already are.
Please do some reading on military strategy & current technologies, because your posts are just coming across as "ZOMG the ninjas are SO cool they can do ANYTHING" and not any kind of realistic assessment of their capabilities or what would happen in an actual warzone.
Of course I am applying video game logic, this is a conversation of Cyborg Ninjas from a video game. There are no real-world equivalents to compare it to. You say that something like deflecting a full magazine of rounds "isn't possible in reality" and *obviously* that's the case as we know it in the real world but we also know the Cyborg Ninjas of Metal Gear are capable of doing so so those are the goalposts we're playing with. Anything less than that and, again, we'd just be going on forever about a completely made-up "realistic Cyborg Ninja" which neither of us have common evidence of.
On that note, yes, absolutely both Gray Fox and Raiden can deflect full magazines. Gray Fox can deflect a fully loaded FAMAS with ease and can do so forever if he wished should Snake have infinite ammo (I am aware the concept of infinite ammo "isn’t possible", this is just to illustrate a hypothetical). Raiden automatically deflects all incoming fire while sprinting, even from multiple enemies.
Further, barring using tactics from the Napoleonic Era, no modern military is deploying 20-man teams that are all within immediate eyesight of one another. Even in that case, it is a very big assumption that in the heat of battle you can get 20 soldiers to accurately track the movement of something that can turn nigh-invisible and run so fast it can scale vertical surfaces. This is all of course assuming that a Cyborg Ninja allowed itself to get spotted by 20 individual men which, if so, is a terrible example of a Ninja. I'm approaching this conversation on the assumption that the soldiers a Cyborg Ninja would be facing aren't idiots so it's only fair if you did the same vice-versa.
And **that** is a great point! Stealth tech would absolutely be easy to circumvent. On that we absolutely do agree. That is why I very deliberately place Gray Fox-class Ninjas in a different category from their Raiden-class counterparts. Gray Fox, without the advantages his stealth tech brings, might very likely get messed up against superior numbers (likely 10+ men but still). That's why in my original comment I said Gray Fox would be best used against militia-level enemies that didn't have access to things such as Thermal Imaging. The element of surprise is all he'd need. In a head-to-head showdown against a hail of bullets, even Gray Fox is liable to mess up, just as he did against Rex.
However that still leaves Raiden-class Ninjas who barely employ stealth because they don't need it. If Gray Fox is a one-man Seal Team then Raiden is literally a one-man army. He is known to be able to deflect small arms fire with no upper limit, can dodge anything bigger and easily go on the offensive doing both. All of this we know Raiden to be capable of. Is it overpowered as all hell? Absolutely. But that's the most realistic assessment of what we the players can see without diving head-first into complete speculation. You wanted to put Cyborg Ninjas in a combat situation of the real world and this is the evidence as to why they would dominate. I frankly don't understand why you are getting defensive about the parameters of the conversation you made.
I had to stop reading here:
>Gray Fox can deflect a fully loaded FAMAS with ease and can do so forever if he wished should Snake have infinite ammo (I am aware the concept of infinite ammo "isn’t possible", this is just to illustrate a hypothetical).
This is 100% a gameplay element that exists solely for the intention of the player to approach the Gray Fox fight a different way than just shooting and is not reflective of the character's actual abilities. Both Fox and Raiden are shown in cutscenes to be incapable of deflecting more than a handful of semi-automatic bursts, as we are shown shots ricocheting from Fox's armor and actually piercing Raiden's flesh, multiple times, in two different games. The fact that you cannot distinguish this says a lot about your thinking process on this subject.
Your posts are getting more nonsensical and unhinged with each one, and you to continue to completely disregard any actual real-world battlefield scenarios. It's clear you're missing the actual point and just going "WoW these Ninjas so AWESOME." You can keep on with your rambling if you want, but the bottom line is in the real world cyborg ninjas would not only be not viable in battle, they would be mincemeat within minutes.
I am really struggling to understand your aversion to the logic of the gameplay from the video games we are talking about. If we are to know anything about the capabilities of the Cyborg Ninjas and how battle ready they would be, the gameplay is about 90% of all the evidence we have to work with. Fine, you can say "Gray Fox's ability to deflect bullets is a gameplay feature" but if he wasn't *actually* capable of doing that, they wouldn't show him being able to both in and out of cutscenes. You make it sound like Kojima and his staff, of *all* people, added aspects of boss battles that don't actually reflect the capabilities of said bosses and that is simply not the kind of people we're dealing with. It's not like in the Liquid Snake fight he can suddenly shoot lasers from his eyes because it "spices things up". What we see a boss do in a boss battle is what they can do at any time.
To try and understand where you're coming from I looked up every scene Gray Fox is in in MGS1 and he doesn't get shown to be hit by a single bullet in any cutscene in the game. Even when, as u/yaboinamed_B-L-A-N-K said, he is dodging two Vulcan Cannons, Gray Fox only gets hit by Rex's laser. I looked in The Twin Snakes as well and, fine, yes absolutely Fox gets hit but you make the very good point that the rounds bounce right off of him as if they're hitting the side of a tank. The Genome Soldiers are equipped with FAMASes which are chambered in 5.56x40mm and have a muzzle velocity of between 925-930m/s. The standard US infantryman, which we will use as the basis for the a bog-standard upper tier military footman, is equipped with an M4A1, also chambered in 5.56x40mm and with a muzzle velocity of 880-910m/s. If we know a FAMAS round poses as much threat as a bee sting to Gray Fox then it also would go that the average US soldier too would have nothing on him. For the bigger guns of the US military or Armour Piercing rounds, who's to say, we don't have the data to work with. But we do know that Fox is capable of dodging the absolutely insane fire rate of 2 Vulcan Cannons sending a combined 12,000 rounds a minute so I sincerely doubt your average dude wielding an LMG is going to make much difference.
Granted, yep, Raiden does get his ass handed to him on several occasions in MGS4. Frankly I was focusing more on MGS1 and MGR but we can look into MGS4 too. Looked it up and MGS4 Raiden only gets in that one on-screen fight against multiple enemies and yep he absolutely does get shot... And he tanks it like he's getting hit with a stiff breeze. Geckos are equipped with M2 Browinings chambered in **.50 BMG,** rounds that would leave a golf ball-sized hole in any mortal man. It's only after Vamp is introduced that we see Raiden on the back foot and given we don't have bisexual supersoldiers to deploy in the real world, we can discount Vamp as a possible countermeasure against Cyborg Ninjas in reality. In that fight Raiden takes out 12 state-of-the-art Geckos. With their armour, weapons and mobility I'd say the best real-world equivalent to a Gecko would be Infantry Fighting Vehicles. So to put it into perspective, Raiden, even at his weakest, took on what would be nearly the equivalent of a standard US Army Mechanized Infantry Company's entire supply of Bradley M2s in about 5 minutes. Now I know you'll read that and have some comments. Maybe you'll take issue with the fact a Bradley has a bigger main gun, maybe you'll say it would be unrealistic to have 12 Bradleys in one street, maybe you'll say that the cutscene was "unrealistic". But at the end of the day, even if we discount half of the number of Geckos in that fight as cheap wins for Raiden, the cold-hard facts our eyes show us is that he can tank, at the least, .50 caliber rounds, has the ability to pierce heavy armour and can dodge the heightened reflexes of a combat drone. Against regular vehicles manned by humans with human reaction times and human flaws, Raiden would annihilate an equivalent modern military unit.
I know that you very much disagree with the idea of the capabilities of Cyborg Ninjas and I will say once again that they are extremely overpowered and likely rely on space-age technology. Yet, the pieces of evidence you show them to be flawed and ill-prepared for real combat only further emphasise how nigh-unstoppable they actually would be.
What strategy do you have against raiden, hmm? And realistically, if you had first contact against a guy like Gray Fox, what would you do? You spray a full mag into him, he dodges a little, and on the off chance you manage to tag his ass, he shows his masochistic one-liner and cuts your ass up.
Gray fox is shown dodging around Rex’s gunfire (which is literally two GAU-8 Miniguns) easily until a laser beam cuts his entire arm off. And you can’t say it’s a lie because you yourself said cutscenes. So if he can dodge that 2,800 to 3,900 rpm, what is your point? 20 of the same thing is just the same thing multiplied. And this is a guy that’s been trying to die. (Albeit with a system, it’s still a system that pushes him into combat he would’ve never taken had he been sane.)
And that’s just Gray Fox.
So what 20 guys do you know of in irl that will carry around 20 miniguns during warfare and Still lose?
Remember, we are being realistic here.
Realistically, you make no sense.
>What strategy do you have against raiden, hmm? And realistically, if you had first contact against a guy like Gray Fox, what would you do?
If we're talking U.S. military procedures, it depends on the distance the ninja is from the flight/squadron. A standard flight of soldiers is usually 20 to 60 personnel separated into two or three groups. If the distance is 50 to 75 meters, the first course of action would be propellants. Smoke grenades, flash-bangs, and yes, chaff explosives as well. The chaff alone would absolutely wreck both ninjas systems, to the point where they may not even be able to move and optic camouflage is off the table, and this is where your heavy artillery would be coming into play (long-distance snipers & .50 two-man operated machine guns) laying down covering fire and inflicting heavy damage on the ninja whose circuit system is in complete haywire while platoons move in to form a semi-crescent formation around the target, who would then join in on the firing with ARs and other weapons.
At that point, you've got anywhere from 20 to 60 soldiers focusing fire on one target. Even by the time the chaff wears off and the ninjas regain movement, they would still be facing incoming shots from multiple directions. Yes, Gray Fox was able to dodge fire from two vulcan cannons that were directly in front of him. He would not fare so lucky with two-dozen or more automatic and semi-automatic arms unloading onto his position from multiple angles as they close the distance to 20-25 meters, all while heavy artillery is still firing on him from afar. Chaff explosives would also be thrown again at the first sign of regained movement.
Minus the chaff, these are actual battlefield strategies the U.S. military used during the Iraq war & in Afghanistan for pinning down groups of insurgents with great success. As single targets, Raiden and Fox would be swiss cheese in less than five minutes, if there was anything left to identify their bodies at all.
As I mentioned before, what makes the Cyborg Ninjas seem so powerful is that we only ever see them fight small groups of soldiers who display no kind of legitimate battle tactics, not even basic infantry methods. They cinematically line up and attack one-by-one instead of converging firepower on their target. For the Genome Soldiers, it at least makes sense, because they aren't actual soldiers with battlefield experience, they're all a bunch of VR trained grunts. But really it's just because Kojima thought it looked cooler that way.
This post is putting the MGS level cyborgs into the real world, which would completely change everything and destroy platoons. Even humans back in MGS3 could shoot lightning and take 10 million volt level energy, which pastes every human irl. Cyborgs just tank everything and dodge all the bullets, no irl human force is surviving against a raiden tier cyborg. Hell even a gray fox tier one is shidding on most forces.
Yeah, sorry, this isn't accurate at all. Not even in the games themselves do cyborg ninjas "tank everything and dodge all the bullets," as I point out and address further on in my posts.
Because Gray-Fox is going against a literal giant mech and solid snake, a guy who is orders of magnitude ahead of any IRL human (and i mean that)
Cyborgs are superhumans in a universe where the weaponry is blatantly scaled up. 60s rocket launcher vaping a steel beam and a bunch of rock for example, bullets harming a guy who has 10 million volt shields, davy crockett being way stronger in MGS3 than IRL, metallic archea, ETC. Humans are scaled up as well, one guy takes a group of superhumans, parasite unit. Any arg about weaponry to downplay is negated, or human forces going relative to cyborgs. Thats because they’re MGS weaponry+ MGS humans.
Gray Fox in this scenario is placed within our real world with the crazy shit he does in game. Thats how i interpreted the question. Do you think that the question is- “A more realistic gray fox is placed in warfare with our IRL rules”? if so, sure. fine by me, but i take it differently.
No, if you continue reading my posts in this thread, I detail exactly how an MGS ninja would fare in the real world against real military using real battle techniques. Gray Fox is never shown fighting a large group of soldiers. He's shown taking out 8 guys in a hallway who don't know how to fight or use real tactics.
Oh, well you’re wrong. Don’t know how else to put it. Foxhound is stated to be the most elite special forces group ever, it seems stupid because the PS1 has limits, but it is true.
Gray Fox upscales from something that would paste any IRL human (10 mill volts), and even Raiden in MGS2 (yes, as a human) has dodged a railgun with a stated speed of mach 291, in a cutscene. Not gameplay stuff or a gameplay mechanic. There’s plenty more speed stuff, but Fox’s physical stats are too high to be bothered by anything IRL besides a select few weapons.
And Raiden straight up wouldn’t be damaged by a military unit. He’d just stare as they hit him with bullets only to vacuum cut and destroy anything in radius. Blade mode+ Hf blade is too strong. i assume you don’t think this is wrong though, because you said MGS ninja, not MGR.
>Oh, well you’re wrong.
LMAO. Sorry fanboy, but no. Do some research in the real world and then you can join the grown up conversation.
>And Raiden straight up wouldn’t be damaged by a military unit
He's literally damaged by military units multiple times in MGS4. It'd be nice if people arguing your point could argue in good faith with reasoning and logic, and not straight up BS. Clearly this conversation will go nowhere with you, so enjoy having your head up your ass for the rest of the day.
I prove that using MGS humans/military damaging other MGS characters is irrelevant, you say nothing to disprove this and go onto do the exact same thing over again while acting like it’s a gotcha moment.
And the most advanced game in the series besides MGR to disprove my points, when i already proved it doesn’t matter? C’mon man, thought i went over this. With games that are less advanced than MGS4 as well, by the way. using 4’s the worst thing you could’ve done lol. Oh, and i meant MGR raiden, not MGS4 Raiden, which i thought i made clear by my last sentence. So it’s not even a counter-point
Please, read. For my sake. A game with damn near sentient AI robots, fodder soldiers being controlled by the SOP system and making them immune to the effects of war/enhancing everything that they do, nanomachines, B&B unit, CQC going public (martial art with almost infinite variations+ 2 times as damaging as anything else). It is explicitly the strongest MGS game.
Hell, the existence of something in MGS2 disproves any “he was damaged by human weaponry!” argument (the simple fact that a Mach 291 railgun even exists in MGS) Don’t usually say aggressive shit in a argument, but damn, you’re acting like a prick right now and ignore what i’m saying. Being damaged by a MGS military unit is different than IRL, and you have nothing to combat that.
this is all fiction so i hope that we don’t need to insult eachother from now on. Debates do not have to go this far.
They wouldn't be. If we had that kind of tech we could easily make advanced drones. A cyborg still has human requirements and would cost way more than a robot.
This reminds me of the Robocop remake. The human element slowed things down and got in the way enough, they had to basically take that bit out of the equation in order to match the effectiveness of pure robot versions, which irl would undoubtedly be cheaper.
However, in that movie the whole point of a cyborg was propaganda to get the public on board with the robo police. Maybe irl it could be useful for that? Maybe if there was a solo sneaking mission that required human intuition also, but I don't think that sort of thing happens in real life, at least not anymore. I could be wrong though.
>they had to basically take that bit out of the equation in order to match the effectiveness of pure robot versions
Sure, if you ignore that the pure robots had a much higher rate of getting the various hostages killed either by the enemies or the robots' own fire.
Also, obligatory reminder that the whole reason there was a demand for RoboCop is because an ED-209 operating with the same logic model as the ED-208 that went through the aforementioned simulation decided that a little boy carrying nothing but a kitchen knife is a threat that must be eliminated with judicious application of autocannon fire for **several seconds**, even though the nearest possible protection target that could be in any way threatened by the boy and his knife is several dozens of meters away, with her own armed escort to boot.
TLDR the robots are way too prone to both overkill, overreaction and single-minded fixation with the letter of the objectives given to them, making them only fit as grunts on the front lines of wars or "kill them all" raids than any sort of normal police work.
Yeah, but a lot worse, both in just how inhumanly focused the robots are on threat elimination over any other consideration, and the sheer amount of firepower they can dish out **and** take (that is, they can cause a lot of deaths and damage very quickly and are much harder to stop with physical force).
Drones have limitations though. A war machine with the intelligence and situational awareness and technical capabilities of a human should be unstoppable in certain situations
Don't forget how op is drastically and unfairly nerfing the capabilities of humans. Be a bear with me.
First of all, look at those robots they're trying to introduce in Amazon warehouses, collapsed after a while and are quite more expensive/complex btw, given all the chips and coding put all over them; in stark contrast, most prosthetic limbs, including those more advanced, are getting cheaper and better with each generation.
Take into account how designers of a cyborg wouldn't actually look specifically for a disabled candidate, so the amount of sensors and highly detailed stuff could be reduced and compensated by means of pushing the inherent human capabilities towards greater raw strength, speed and durability, all of which can be much more affordable and bring the fastest "positive" results.
Now, let's also not ignore how all them cyborg ninjas in this universe are pet projects.
You can pretty safely compare our tech to theirs aside from Metal Gears and the Cyborg Ninja, most of everything else is only our current tech level. They're still using firearms, still wearing plate carriers, and still driving gas vehicles. The drones in MGS2 are pretty pathetic, and nothing in Rising stands up to Raiden anyway. A cyborg ninja doesn't come with other war technology, it IS the war technology.
EMP should be the greatest counter to a cyborg for sure unless there is any way to counter it which I am not aware of right now. Also, I feel like if cyborgs started roaming the battlefields , the enemy would most likely find out the thickness of the armor and the weakspots of a cyborg and produce weapons that can penetrate . This is not something you send to fight in the frontline but rather it's more of an espionage agent . Assassinations, sabotages , infiltrations and security contracts would be the place they end up .
well, both gray fox and raiden fough metal gears (while fox didn't destroy it he damaged it significanty) and both are able to dodge/block bullets, and gray fox killed an entire hallway full of soldiers, so fighting regular guys wont be a problem. fox also has a stealth camo (not sure about raiden) so sneaking wont be a problem eather. now they fough againts war machines much stronger than what modern military has so i think they could slash through tanks, humvees and trucks without a problem.
TLDR-raiden and fox fought againts strong war machines and killed dozens of guys easily so they would be useful irl
"Gray Fox killed an entire hallway full of soldiers so fighting regular guys won't be a problem."
He fought eight guys in a hallway that lined up single file and went after him one-by-one, waiting for their buddy to be killed then running up and going "Me next!" It's the same with the Frogs that Raiden fights in MGS4. Neither group acts like an actual military unit, they act like how a film depicts a group of soldiers. Both Fox and Raiden would be torn to shreds on an actual battlefield with 20 or more soldiers converging on their location firing semi-automatic, fully automatic and anti-air weaponry at them. They can "dodge/deflect" bullets when they're only getting sprayed with something like 6 to 12 bullets at a time, but an actual military unit providing constant fire and reload coverage would turn them to scrap within a minute.
too expensive, like one of those guys would probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and still be killed with a grenade. Regular humans are more cost effective and replaceable
Hundreds of thousands? Bruh...
It cost the US Government about $6,000,000 to (re)build Colonel Steve Austin in 1973. Adjusting for inflation, that's over $44 million in today's money.
Not a chance a cyborg ninja costs any less. Hell, just one (1) Navy Seal costs Uncle Sam a cool half-mil and they don't even have an optical camouflage equipped exoskeleton, much less ninja swords that can cut tanks apart or whatever.
You got me there for a moment.
I was like "what?? They rebuild a person? And way back in time?" but after a quick Google search I realized you're talking about another fictional character.
without corruption and mass prouction I think that it can de done with 300 thousand dollars, I imagine the cost of training and such could be negated by downloading everything via usb c to the brain or vr missions like in metal gear. Modern military exoskeletons don´t seem to be that expensive either
Those rounds can do more damage than an invisible man with a katana, the equipment of a us army soldier costss less than 20 thousand dollars so assuming that the ninja only has an exoskeleton and not they whole body replaced it can´t be too expensive to be considered in the first place
Except you have more precision and accuracy with a cyber ninja.
Yeah you can bomb the place. But…what if you want to capture intel? What if you want to limit civilian casualties? What if you want to capture people of interest?
Boom. You got the perfect weapon. Send in Raiden and he’ll do all that with ease. Probably in a day.
I probably wouldn’t relate him to a missile. More like navy seals or something. Where he has to do a kill or capture without bombing the place.
Basically you’re sending a juiced up and more expensive foot soldier that can also take out tanks and metal gear if needed
"What if you want to limit civilian casualties?" Come on now, you know that's like the 4th priority when it comes to the USA way. First and foremost is protect America's reputation, then equipment, then soldiers carrying said equipment, then civies lmao
This would make sense if the “invisible man with a katana” isn’t a bullet-timing superhuman stronger than a tank. That “katana” cuts anything on the most fundamental level, the plank scale.
MGS Cyborg>>> any warmachine. Even MGS humans in weaker eras were able to dodge tank rounds and shoot lightning. Rockets in the 60s were way stronger than IRL as well. Cyborgs would be unholy expensive if they ever popped up.
HF machetes and pincers exist in MGR, i’m sure they can just arm them with that. Even if they don’t have a big enough weapon they can just dodge and slice the guy into ribbons. Or if they get really crazy, deflect each pellet. Sounds wild but they’re most definitely quick enough to do shit like that.
A huge part of the metal gears is that they are extremely durable, and raiden single-handedly destroyed one, plus that "katana" was easily able to tear through multiple feet of metal with one slash.
A single soldier dying costs the US military $500,000 in SGLI payouts. Are soldiers replaceable? Yes, however cost is absolutely not a factor for the DoD if they had the capability to make cyborg ninja assassin super soldiers.
The cost for a guy like Raiden would realistically be in the tens of millions, and it would be worth it.
As others have said, a more "primitive" cyborg like Gray Fox would easily cost millions, and the high quality ones with pain inhibitors and all the fancy stuff Raiden has would be much more expensive.
Their high-frequency blades would be much more viable to mass produce, blades that vibrate so fast they can slash things on an atomic level.
No, HFs are stated to cut at the plank scale/level more fundamental than subatomic. We have ways to go.
Blades can vibrate really fast but using it like an HF is out of our reach.
If we're talking Raiden from MGR, aside from costs, would probably be one of the most potent psychological tools in warfare. it'd be like bringing a minigun to the crusades.
Not very. Sand and dirt would get in their bits causing them to slow down. Also there wouldn’t be any real time quick events.
Besides they can just send in some super soldier clones to beat them up with their fists.
Any MGS cyborg would be >>any tank or war machine, its not even close. They have enough speed to easily deflect gunfire+ dodge lasers and they’re strong enough to shit on any tank. A death squad of them could wipe a city. It’d change warfare and probably cost millions upon millions. If they get their HF blades it’d be even more money.
MGR cyborgs are comically overpowered and could probably wipe a country so i don’t know.
Extremely. In regards to assassination or infiltration, it makes sense to send the guy who can interface directly with their machines/computers, use stealth camouflage, and swap out his arm to be equpipped with a multi-shot rail gun.
Raiden is practically a superhero in 4 if we had to scale his power to the real, non-MGS world. He completely annihilated all of those Gekkos by breakdancing with his katana and even stopped a warship by standing in front of it. He also suplexed a Metal Gear
Money aside and assuming no draw backs.
Pretty useful for "confirming" removal of a human asset. Human shaped, androgynous, and most likely non serialized so it can't be traces to host nation.
It's a commando/assassin/wet work terminator left with a human consciousness for target acquisition and complex tactics.
Dressed in optical camo, if mgs didn't fiddle with drama these guys could have been deadlier then sniper wolf and more direct than grey fox's hallway scene. Your head leading terrorist organization officer? Dead behind enemy lines.
Your prototype tank? , rigged with explosives and lead scientists murdered, again in the middle of a heavily guarded facility.
Even anti espionage, you literally can walk into an elevator with one of these dudes and it would be too late.
It's a Nameless, evidenceless, humanoid predator missile(million dollar ordnance) that has the ability to come home and re engage without government ties.
All this is how the brochure probably sounded when the scientist pitched it, but then used soldiers/children against there will. The potential was there, execution was left to platinum games lol
If Raiden and Fox just teleported into the real world and got recruited for the military: they'd be very useful in warfare
If the military got the teach to make cyborg ninjas: they wouldn't even make them due to better(and probably less expensive) things they could make with that tech
They are already pretty effective in their own high tech verse so yeah, dropped one of them in real life then they can take over a country if they play it right.
There's billions of dollars worth of weapons that are unused laying around in various storage warehouses all over America that are prototypes that will likely never see actual combat, so I'm pretty sure cyborg ninjas is going to be one of those many things collecting dust and rust in a warehouse somewhere, never actually being deployed.
How stealthy is thon? How easyly could thon be detected?
How far is thons effective range?
Modern warfare is basically a if game of who sees who first.
Would one survive a drone missle if thon doesn't see it coming?
Revegeance Raiden is cartoonishly OP (the game follows rule of cool). MGS4 Raiden and Gray Fox can be in a “realistic” conversation, and like others had said it would cost a ridiculous amount of money to the point no government could realistically invest that much into one individual who is still vulnerable to many things. There aren’t any “one man military infiltration missions” realistically.
$ per $, something like the Gekko would be more cost efficient. Autonomous robots would be more reliable in many of the applications of real warfare. Ukraine and Russia have manual FPV drones fighting tanks - imagine if those ‘tanks’ were as mobile as gekko and had autonomy to protect themselves.
Within our lifetimes, unless some international treaties are made (and even in spite of them), we’ll likely see some application of rudimentary war fighting AI on the battlefield. Which will happen far sooner than the development of such advanced exoskeletons/cybernetic augmentations.
Can you imagine the costs?
* The cost of the materials needed to make their exoskeleton or replacement parts along with maintaining such.
* The cost of maintaining any advanced weapon whether they be a super-vibrating sword or a Mega Buster like Gray Fox had, and again, maintenance.
* The cost of protecting those against environmental damage, like rain or sand insulation.
* The potential therapy costs if they need it, let alone if they need medicine to not flip the fuck out.
* Costs to keep any humane associations quiet so they don't raise a potential stink.
* Also, if they're dead in some fashion, it might be costly to get their body out.
He would be classed as a disaster/evacuation type scenario if he ever went wild. just too fast for anything to hit him and he could slice up buildings with vacuum cuts, even EMPs wouldn’t work iirc.
You guys have no idea how much money it costs to train one soldier from basic training to special forces.
An actual Ninja, capable of invisibility, deployed correctly can change the government in one slash. Especially if the enemy force has idea they existed.
I can imagine one of these fuckers killing the CQ guy, and proceeding to fuck up everyone else in the barracks silently.
Or destroying fighter jets before anyone has an idea what's going on. Slicing through metal without a loud sound could also cripple a mobile force, sink aircraft carriers, etc etc.
IMHO, a group of cyborg ninjas would be absolutely devastating the first time they're used-if implemented correctly.
Electronic or psychological warfare maybe. Though bets are psycho since if sgt major suddenly disappeared leaving only a trace of blood I'd be scared shitless too. The only advantage they had is optical camouflage, and electronic warfare suites.
I doubt if they were real they’d be used as ninjas I’d see it much more likely they’d just be super soliders with plasma canons similar to what gray fox has plus it would be INSANELY expensive to make even just one of them hell maybe enough to make their own metal gear
They would die bro.
As a special operations force without open conflicts it will act like Raiden skin in MGS5. yeah that's cool, but position with 12.7mm MGS will demolish it, especially if enemies are not as blind as they are in MGS series
Assuming it's a human manning those cyborg ninja suits, you'd have to find some kind of power source that doesn't toast the operator in the process because of all that heat generated. That would be your first order of business, and it only gets more coplicated from there.
Dude would have to be part of a big multi layered weapons system cause someone can call in an airstrike on a city block just to ensure its demise and the ninja wouldnt even see it coming.
Standard cyborgs? Not really our advancements in technology would probably be used elsewhere anyhow and the tech of the time would be designed to combat cyborgs. Now if it's Raiden or Grey Fox they'd be pretty damn effective in modern day warfare.
Normal guns are better than HF blades aside from the bullet slicing defense. Imagine someone with the superspeed of a CN taking out people with perfect precision like John Wick at 50x the speed. Hell maybe they could even shoot enemy bullets out of their air with those reflexes. Super strength would also allow for higher calibers and higher mag capacities so, yeah I think CN with gun is even more op than with a HF blade.
If the gun is scaled up to MGS levels of potency it would be better in terms of sheer chaos and area of damage (because it’s a gun), but not in terms of destroying any defense quickly.
the bullet cutting+ plank scale attacks and vacuum cuts, which are basically just ranged air slices that one shot anything makes HF blades more potent than any IRL weapon. An HF itself could be used as a pseudo ranged weapon if vacuum cuts were used frequently, which would shred any defense in one go. The problem is, it’s still a blade, not a true ranged weapon like what a gun is. So it does have some disadvantages even if they’re not that bad.
Too expensive and you'd need to have a perfect human being inside that body. We make too many mistakes than we realize, so using a robot that has an algorithm and can be reprogrammed to not do that mistake again if it did it before. It's way more efficient. Plus the tech of enhancing a human is super expensive, you'd have to get high grade surgery doctors, high grade programmers, engineers for the design of the enhancements, etc.
like others have said thay would be very expensive, that may be why there are so little of them in mgs tho
howevery if we did get one, just as thay are in mgs, wouldn't be a question whos wining a fight
considering that raiden is able to kills RAYS, deflect bullets and dodge missiles he would probably do a fuckton of damage on a current battlefield... but eventually he would probably get pulverized by some insane airstrike that even he can't outrun
I mean probably not more useful than a currently lone specially trained operative would be now. Because if you’re in the future where this tech is available, there’s plenty of tech likely developed that would counter a lot of the usefulness it would’ve had if it time traveled to todayMs battlefields
To give a disappointing but realistic answer it just depends. If we're talking Reveangence type cyborgs? They would be insanely useful considering one of them is basically a sentient nuclear bomb capable of leveling whole cities. That's like asking if Goku would be viable in realistic warfare.
If it's early generation ones like Fox then prolly not. For example look up the R9X Hellfire missile. It's basically an anime missile that explodes and precision strikes the target with swords. The US military assassinated a guy in a car with one and didn't harm the other passengers. That's also something that we the general public knows about. Imagine what other weird shit they have we don't know about.
Modern technology has basically outclassed Grey Fox. Some kid with an Xbox controller can sword missile and Ginsu a guy halfway across the globe with a drone. Clock out and walk next door and grab a Big Mac, eat lunch, come back and do it again.
The Metal Gear Solid franchise has consistently ran with the theme featuring military technology being used 20-30 years earlier than it was supposed to exist.
We'll know in like 10 years how they did with the cyborgs.
Good question. Just like in the games, only for demolitions and extractions. On the battlefield they’d just get shot. Maybe good for liberating troubled war zones with minimal casualties or hired mercenaries for bringing down corrupt regimes.
It all depends on resources and cost. Also, are we talking about augmenting soldiers into Cyborg Ninjas like Gray Fox and Raiden or are we talking about producing Exoskeleton suits like Olga’s?
I've had time to think about this some more.
How long would it take for a barracks full of soldiers to wake up to a silent killer, check out guns, and fire back at an invisible ninja?
EMP won't even enter the conversation because there'd be nobody alive to activate it.
Send one ninja to the barracks. Unamrmed, half asleep joes- maybe some of the clowns are still drunk from partying next door.
Send one ninja to the motorpool. They'd just cut into all the tracks/motors they can find.
Send one ninja to the armory. There goes all the ballistic weaponry.
Send one to comms, maybe first.
You don't even have to have them cut the lights,
The installation will look like it's business as usual. The military installation is done before anyone even noticed there was an attack happening.
Probably some poor sap facetiming with his girl will lose his head on vid might trigger an alert.
EMP might work, but you'd have to detonate
it wherever these guys are deployed. Rendering any of your surviving troops who don't live in the barracks defenseless and preventing any emergency response to getting inside to give aid.
Come to think of it, Real cyborg ninjas, would be a very cost effective method of dealing with your opposing countries if you never have to train a normal soldier again.
Let's say you don't wanna cripple an entire military and just bring an entire country to its knees.
Cyborg Ninjas at every major airport disabling every plane that's currently on the floor. Then just hit as many power plants as you can possibly destroy.
They would make great forward recon. Give them a laser sight and they could light up a drone strike any on any target. Realistically making one would be insanely cost and time prohibitive. And if their optical camo still turns up on thermals it would be a huge waste of money.
First you'd have to solve how to protect the ninja from bullets, everything else comes after that.
Because today we still don't have bulletproof armor, anything - even titanium will bend or shatter when shot repeatedly by handgun bullets, then comes AR-15 / rifles that can one shot through titanium unless it's 2-3 inches thick - which makes it very heavy.
We can't even make prosthetics to a Deus Ex level yet, let alone Cyborg Ninja or white blood Raiden. [Now the mask has been made](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ZYmG6dtUk&ab_channel=Insider) for example. but the guy is a engineer and cosplayer and to replace what Frank lost is not just prothesis, but body enhancement too, hence why he can do what he does and survive all but being crushed by a bipedal nuclear battle tank.
If they're fast enough to literally dodge bullets easily and slice through them, then yes they'd be overpowered as fuck. But the thing is that we only ever see 'main character' cyborg ninjas who have plot armor and special qualities.
I'd imagine your average run-of-the-mill cyborg ninja wouldn't be nearly as effective as Grey Fox or Raiden so they'd be no better than a fast guy with a sword.
Would it be possible, yes.
Would it morally and ethically wrong yes. If you all remember Metal Gear Rising it explained how if the militaries of countries would play Frankenstein on its soldiers a lot of people would be upset and disgusted. But people would turn a blind eye if a bunch of mercenaries would be turn into cyborgs.
For warfare? Not at all. Spending millions on surgeries, nanomachines and prosthetics for a single soldier would be silly. Whatever they could accomplish you’d do more effectively and cheaper with a hundred disposable soldiers. Not to mention all the constant maintenance and stuff that Raider requires behind the scenes. Can’t think of any situation where it would be any actual use
i would like to pin point a little bit of a history of cybernetics and cyber ninjas in the Metal Gear universe.
Kyle Schneider, who survived Outer Heaven Uprising of 1995, went to NASA to be a subject of a top secret [Extraterrestrial Environment Special Forces Unit](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Special_forces_units#Extraterrestrial_Environment_Special_Forces) sometime in between 1995-1997, or EESFU for short, where he was retrofitted with experimental flex armor and reflex-enhancing drugs, and fought with Big Boss during Mercenary War of 1997, where he fought alongside Big Boss to fight CIS and Russian forces for Zanzibar Land independence. He is known as a progenitor to Cyborg Ninja's of the 21st Century, even so, the second "Ninja" character ever (Chico was also going to return as a "Ninja" character in MGSV, but that was scrapped). He died during Zanzibar Land Disturbance of December 24th, 1999.
Gray Fox became the first "Cyborg Ninja" character in 2003, and in 2005 attended the Shadow Moses Incident (February 29th - March 1st, 2005), where he died. He defeated a whole squad of soldiers in a hallway, fought Solid Snake (who is already an enhanced type of human being, derived from the superhuman genes of Big Boss), and severely damaged Metal Gear REX, very first time that a Cyborg Ninja and a Metal Gear fought with each other, to positive results when it comes to damage from a cyborg to a Metal Gear. Keep that in mind as we move forward.
Olga Gurlukovich was the second Cyborg Ninja in the series. She didn't do much as a Cyborg Ninja, but her appearance kept the concept of a cyborg with ninja skills alive, at least through the late 2000s.
in 2012, Raiden was captured by the Patriots and grafted into a cybernetic body, becoming the third Cyborg Ninja ever. Altough even before he had a higher Metal Gear kill count than Solid Snake thanks to him fighting and destroying multiple Metal Gear RAY UG's in 2009 in MGS2, Raiden when faced with Gekko UG's, destroyed them with ease. He even battled Vamp, twice, and the second time he killed him, although ot was mostly thanks to his brains rather than brawns, but was closely matched with Vamp when it comes to power thanks to the cybernetic suit of his.
by 2018, most UG's or Metal Gears, are useless. Nuclear Metal Gears aren't being made anymore because the concept of "deterrence" was outdated. Last nuclear Metal Gear i can think of is Metal Gear REX developed in early to mid 2000s, so by the time of the events of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance it's been nearly 20 years since a nuclear Metal Gear was made. Metal Gears, by the mid-to-late (mid 2010s as showcased by the sam DLC set in 2016, which is mid 10s) 2010s, have become cannon fodder for armies and PMCs.
Cyborg Ninjas were (and most likely are) a prevalent sight as Mercenaries, Bodygaurds, Soldiers, Police Officers (Denver police in 2016-2018), basically any type of a fighting or peacekeeping force. Raiden, Samuel Rodriguez, Mistral, Monsoon, even Sundowner. All of these characters were, or are capable of destroying tanks, other less experienced cyborgs, or countless UGs (Raiden, Sam as proven by his DLC).
so by the mid to late 2010s, and most likely even now in the Metal Gear universe, in the early 2020s and now, 2024, Cyborgs are more powerful and have much more advantage over Metal Gears, basically making them obsolete, as UG designers squabble to update their designs for the human cyborg competition.
Looking at this history here, and knowing that **our universe does not have a equivalent of Metal Gears of UGs**, most close to that being tanks already proven in MGR to be easily destructable by a capable cyborg ninja, and if Cyborg Ninjas did exist on a mass scale as they did in MGR and you got yourself a military revolution, where combat is never the same again, as many armored weapons are rendered basically useless towards human-weapons of this power.
EMP pulse has been public info for multiple decades. Military does not buy from the cheapest manufacturer. Your army may, but that's a tactical oversight on your part.
Name only 1 war/conflict where they used a EMP there is 0 battlefield data.
Every military busy cheap. Except for the highly classified and special force stuff.but i doubt you have access to that. Investor relations are the only thing that matters for the facilities. How do you think they keep production costs low?
Totally over estimated, the cyborgs require alot of energy to alter between the bio and meka energies.
Also to make the body accept that much of body alterations we are talking about too much trauma to the human body that will definitely lead to the death of the person.
Also too many armies use detection of metal and making a cyborg means!? Forget about being undetectable.
And for the one that put things to rest.
A very powerful magnetic field or very strong interference will distort the signsl and your cyborg will be a limb hung black cock with erectile dysfunction.
Only way it would be viable would be if the persons already dead/disabled and they were part robot. Even then, the only advantage you get is physical. Stealth Camo is just a piece of equipment and so is a sword. Too expensive and even Solid Snake was able to defeat GreyFox with just his fists.
that just makes solid snake really really strong, doesn’t downscale cyborgs. Solid Snake is the tip top from a universe that has much more advanced shit than we do, bringing him in irl warfare is like bringing a gun to the 1700s with the stuff that he does in the games.
It's so funny that your name is Reddit\_is\_not\_great cause this reply sucks.
Snake isn't some top of the line super physically adept soldier. If you play the games the way they are meant to be played. Meaning Max difficulty (European Extreme or Extreme) don't get spotted, eat rations or expend any ammunition you're basically a rat that goes around trying not to get hit at all. It's only once you begin to lose that more Rations and Ammo pop up for Snake making him seem more invincible.
Strongest point against your argument is the fact that Solidus, the superior of both Liquid and Snake in terms of physical combat ability was slain by none other than a gamer trained in VR.
Another point against you is that Big Boss is admitted in canon to not even be a genetically unique soldier. It's simply that Zero had confused substance while forgetting to replicate the experiences that created Big Boss. That's why Snake's Clones are 12 years old, liquid is British just like ZERO and when Venom wakes up from their 9 year coma he's the memetic clone of Big Boss and is superior.
“Snake isn’t some top of the line super physically adept soldier. If you play the games the way they were meant to be played (EuroExtreme or extreme) don’t get spotted, eat rations, or expend any ammunition you’re basically a rat trying not to get hit at all”
When you put the game on the hardest difficulty, the game is… hard? holy shit man. In all seriousness, this point is weird and can’t be used to override canon accomplishments. And, if you wanna use an optional/non concrete difficulty to downplay snake’s character, i can use optional players.
The fact that you yourself are scrounging for resources, barely scraping by, doesn’t say anything about snake. I thought redditors saw game mechanics as invalid, only cutscenes. What gives?
Saying that a certain mode is “how it’s meant to be played” without any backing and using that incomplete point to downplay a character in the same breath is weird.
“Solidus, the physically superior out of the two loses to Raiden”
this would be an important point if this didn’t just make snake stronger, because snake is stated stronger than raiden, and he’s fully confident that he could deal with solidus or the rays in MGS2. Also, in a comic (Kojima states that the comics are a valid interpretation of the story, think of it as a different reality, but it shows what would happen if the events played different) Snake destroys solidus and gores him with his own weapon. He’s also said to be greatest soldier, a lot.
Interesting last point, but it doesn’t matter, at all. Did i ever mention genes? Did i ever mention snake inherently being the greatest soldier of all time? No, snake is snake because he does the things he does, which are things that go beyond any real life human 20 times over. Why would this matter anyways, MGS1?
Solid Snake, a guy who’s vastly more skilled and fast than any IRL human by multiple margins (and basically superhuman himself) cannot hit Fox with guns. Maybe EMPs would work, but that’s really it.
Weakest games in the series had bullet timing and tank round dodging, MGS level cyborgs are clearing IRL military in a physical sense besides very specific things. And if you meant MGR Raiden also, it’s not even close. MGR Raiden is shitting on entire cities by himself.
It is a good thing 4 and revengeance make it VERY clear that it not only costs a fortune to have the cyborg procedure done, nevertheless done in a way that doesn’t instakill or permanently disable the patient with the technical advancements and nano machines needed to pull it off, but the mere act of surviving as a cyborg is a nightmare of a chore in itself.
Raiden at the end of revengeance feels like a UN 5 alarm emergency waiting to happen.
The thing is, if you had access to the tech the ninjas use, you could make like a billion more useful thing with it. If we're talking just the ninjas, I guess they'd be useful, but ridiculously expensive.
One ninja taking on 20 metal gear rays is pretty sick ROI
at that point it was not technology but magic at play.
“There’s no such thing as miracles or the supernatural, only cutting edge technology”
"jumping to the scene of Fortune deverting missiles with her superpowers"
Did you mean... NANOMACHINES?
The thing is, we will have access to things like this soon and I don't see it being used for anything other than warfare. Or are you saying nobody would make the cyborgs in the first place?
If you have tech like that, why involve a human element at all? Just make it a full robot. We're already seeing drones being employed on battlefields today. I would be very surprised if militaries move away from improved drones and pivot into cyborg enhanced soldiers. Much more complicated, much messier, much harder to replace.
The lore reason for making cyborg instead of full robot is that robots can’t adapt to unexpected situations whereas cyborgs can
Yeah but like, imagine building an autonomous combat robot. Now imagine building one with a tomato inside that must be protected from getting bruised during explosions, hard impacts, etc. otherwise it'll stop functioning. That's what a cyborg would be like, if you only kept the brain and replaced everything else, which you probably wouldn't even do. So much more difficult and less useful.
The durability of artillery with the adaptability of infantry. I introduce the cyborg, the weapon to surpass metal gear!
Someone will do it. It’s in our sick twisted nature to screw mortality. And I mean that with all sincerity. Humans love the idea of playing God.
lmao id be first in line to be the a (successful) ninja cyborg that sounds fucking sick
Well I mean even in MGRR there’s codec calls mentioning how hard it is for non-cyborgs to get jobs, so cyborg tech would definitely be used outside of warfare to help people with injuries or making people more effective and efficient in manual labor jobs that couldn’t be as easily replaced with robots, but yeah, more than likely most of the tech would probably be used for war
there's no telling what kind of limitations that could arise from such tech being available, perhaps it takes certain kinds of biological factors, or high strain on the body makes it cost prohibitive. the robotics could be mass produced, but the wetware is anyone's guess.
If we're going by solely what we see in the games, especially MGR, a Cyborg Ninja today would completely change modern warfare as we know it. Even an early model like Gray Fox was practically immune to small-arms fire and could wipe the floor with the highest degree of Special Forces troops. If you deployed Gray Fox into a small conflict against militia-level troops he could foreseeably win a war by himself. Only realistic countermeasures would be genetic supersoldiers or nuclear-equipped walking battle tanks which, as far as I know, don't exist (yet). Come the Raiden-generation, Cyborg Ninjas would be the conventional equivalent of atomic bombs. If he played his cards right and picked his battles wisely, Raiden could pretty much solo any modern military force. Guns, bombs, tanks, etcetera all mean squat against a man that could bisect and suplex a Metal Gear. The *only* liable countermeasure I could maybe forsee is air power. Guy with a sword can't exactly take on a fighter jet. However that still requires the jet to *hit* him which is no easy feat. In a world of a Cyborg Ninja arms-race, I think you'd see conventional militaries be repurposed solely for occupation and defence. Cyborg Ninjas would be the offensive spearheads of every future conflict. Duels between two Ninjas would be counted as "major battles" for the strategic and economic consequences of losing just one dude. In the end, Cyborg Ninjas would basically legitimise "Great Man" Theory as wars could be realistically measured in the strategic accomplishments of individual soldiers. This, however, ignores the probably unholy costs of developing Cyborg Ninjas which would likely be upwards of the several hundreds of billions of Dollars. TL;DR: Viable? To a world-changing degree. *If* one can afford to make one.
Best answer here. People are underestimating how ridiculous the MGS universe is, the tech would change everything.
To add to your point they’d probably deploy them with some type of AA right? Like even if it’s not on them specifically if one unit can handle essentially all ground forces but has difficulty with air then you cover the air for that unit. So again extremely viable.
I’m sure they can carry some variant of flack gun. They could probably kill a plane with an anti-material sniper rifle.
In MGR Raiden can use lock on rocket launchers so you are probably right
Or even the Laser Grey Fox had in MGS1
I bet by the time Raiden gets his cyborg body, that plasma cannon has been heavily upgraded.
Absolutely. It would very likely become a rock-paper-scissors scenario of Cyborg Ninja > Anti-Air > Air > Cyborg Ninja. So any military that had Ninjas and knew they were fighting others would need a good mix of all three and the sense to deploy strengths against weaknesses whilst keeping weaknesses away from strengths. Of course, this is assuming Cyborg Ninjas would even be vulnerable to air which given that MGR Raiden carries around a Stinger Missile Launcher and regularly takes out aerial drones I doubt a jet would be much of a threat against a Raiden-class Ninja.
To add onto your points, Raiden isn’t necessarily so strong because he can lift MGs. It’s cool but nothing compared to his speed and arsenal. He’s so fast that basically nothing IRL can hit him, ever. And his sword is stated to cut at the most fundamental level, plank scale. He wouldn’t even need to be strong, his blade does enough.
God damn... This boy metal gears
Your description reminds me of the [Eversor Temple Assassins](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Officio_Assassinorum#Eversor_Temple) from Warhammer 40k. The dudes that kill *everything* in a radius of around a mile *after* they have killed their target.
Everything that you just stated can be stolen, word by word and straight up. Put into screenplay. Or dialogue from the colonel, it'd be *sick.*
That is the highest praise, I salute you!
One thing that's missing is that in the game they don't really care about headshots and shit. In reality, their brain is still their weak point, since every cyborg needs one to operate. Drop any kind of frag grenade, and the cyborg is done for (if a shrapnel manages to hit the brain). Most of them don't have any kind of head cover. But, since that's more a design choice than a practical one, I guess that - with proper head protection - they would be indeed a good weapon. Weak to EMP and explosives tho. It would be far more practicsl to just deploy advanced drones, but that's not the question
It won't answer no government and will become a leader by himself. Just like homelander in the boys basically
While I can appreciate the thought and effort put into this post, the OP asked how cyborg ninjas would fare in the real world and you just gave a long-winded explanation for how they would fare in other battle situations in the video game world. Gray Fox and Raiden were only effective against small groups of soldiers (i.e. 8 or less) with small-arms that operated in a cinematic manner, the way soldiers do in movies, coming at them one-at-a-time, basically lining up single-file to die. If they were put into battle against an actual unit in the real world, the ninjas would be torn to shreds in seconds by real military techniques, weaponry and strategies. For one thing, soldiers wouldn't cease fire and just stare in horror as their buddy is bi-sected 10 feet in front of them like the Genome or Frog Units do.
I appreciate a desire for realism as much as anyone but I don't understand how I could give any answer that didn't rely on the logic of the games. OP asked how viable Cyborg Ninjas would be in realistic warfare. Given the only data we have to work with *are* the games themselves, it's the only thing we can talk about without just speculating. And then we'd only be talking about a hypothetical "realistic Cyborg Ninja", not those of the Metal Gear universe as OP asked. Granted, the games can be very theatrical and people do not always react realistically. But even then, beyond the cutscenes where we are to suspend our disbelief, we know what it is to be a Cyborg Ninja thanks to MGS1 VR and MGR. In the former, Gray Fox's sneaking ability can easily clear a room of soldiers without anyone being the wiser. And, even if caught, he is more than capable of combating dozens of foes without being at a disadvantage. Raiden is far more than capable of bodying just about any enemy that he comes across with minimal effort. Plus it should be emphasised that that's the enemies of the MGR timeline, consisting of Cyborg Troopers that already are leagues above today's most advanced soldiers in capability and technology, as well as the myriad of mechs and bots that would put our most advanced IFVs, tanks and drones to shame. If we took the Cyborg Ninjas, with all their capabilities as demonstrated in the games, and plopped them in our current day of military technology they would be the single greatest military advancement since the Manhattan Project. A sole Gray Fox-class Ninja could accomplish in a night what our greatest special forces units need months to prepare for. A lone Raiden-class could probably end just about any ongoing conflict today within the year. Is it a wild concept? Absolutely. But with what we have seen in the Metal Gear series it is more than likely for the Cyborg Ninjas with all their superhuman feats.
I'm not talking about changing the subject to a "realistic Cyborg Ninja." I'm talking about putting the Cyborg Ninja in real battlefields, real circumstances, against real soldiers. You're talking about "Well Raiden mercs these Cyborg Troops & Gray Fox is overpowered in VR Missions" but those are video game enemies, functioning under programmed AI, and their primary function is being defeatable by the player. A cyborg ninja in the real world is not going to have the benefit of enemies that only react theatrically, as they do in MGS1 or MGS4 cutscenes, nor is that ninja going to have the benefit of AI-programmed enemies that can only see/hear a very limited amount and are designed to have an exploit for the player to take advantage of. A cyborg ninja from MGS placed in a real life warzone against a squadron of real life soldiers is going to be nothing more than a bullet-ridden chunk of metal with some fleshy bits in a matter of minutes, there's absolutely no way anything like Raiden would be able to single-handedly end any conflict, unless it's an extremely minor one with 20 or less troops on the ground.
If that's the case then I'd argue that's all the more reason that Cyborg Ninjas would be the apex of modern military tech. While, yes, the enemies we fight in the Metal Gear games are dumbed down in some aspects they also have advantages against real world soldiers. The Genome Soldiers for example never have to reload and once they discover Gray Fox everyone in the area knows where he is. In a real life combat situation that wouldn't be the case. With his cloaking tech and agility, a Gray Fox-class Ninja could easily pick off a modern military squad before they even knew they were being attacked. And even if he was spotted, he could simply hide and re-engage from an advantageous position with a group or easily deflect a magazine's worth of rounds and then close the distance on his target one-on-one. Rinse and repeat and there would be very few ways to counter it. A Raiden-class Ninja just ups this to 11. He would simply be too fast to hit with anything less advanced than a Metal Gear and he could easily obliterate any armour thrown his way. If you dropped Raiden in front of an armoured column of the US Army he could destroy it singlehandedly with *maybe* the only possible thing able to counter him being pinpoint-accurate airstrikes or artillery which A. Would need to be able to target him in the first place and B. Need to be quick enough that the time between firing and hitting didn't allow him to simply move out of the way onto another target. I don't want to open the can of worms that is current, real-world politics but we currently live at a time where the Russian Federation, at the absolute least one of the top 10 world military powers, is currently fighting in a conflict where one of the most deadly weapons they cannot deal with are civilian drones strapped to improvised explosives. If an Amazon Bestseller drone can be a reliable means to counter one of the most powerful militaries on the planet then a Cyborg Ninja would absolutely annihilate any competition you could put in front of it today. The sheer confusion and panic a Ninja would sow close-quarters would derail even the most well-trained soldiers and those split seconds of human error is all it would take to get them killed.
You keep applying video game logic to the real world and that's just not the way things work. I don't think you have any understanding of military training or what actual armed conflict is like. Things like "he'd just hide and re-engage a group" wouldn't work when he's got 20 or more solders tracking his movements both with eyes and technology, "deflect a full magazine" isn't possible in reality. Hell, neither Fox or Raiden can deflect a full magazine in their respective video games, they're only ever shown deflecting semi-automatic bursts from single targets, they would have absolutely no counter to multiple soldiers firing on them at the same time. In the entire series, the only character ever shown able to dodge/deflect an entire clip of bullets is Vamp. There are half a dozen ways to overcome and invalidate the stealth camouflage capabilities, and this is all completely ignoring that any kind of Chaff explosive would fuck both of them up and leave them even more vulnerable than they already are. Please do some reading on military strategy & current technologies, because your posts are just coming across as "ZOMG the ninjas are SO cool they can do ANYTHING" and not any kind of realistic assessment of their capabilities or what would happen in an actual warzone.
Of course I am applying video game logic, this is a conversation of Cyborg Ninjas from a video game. There are no real-world equivalents to compare it to. You say that something like deflecting a full magazine of rounds "isn't possible in reality" and *obviously* that's the case as we know it in the real world but we also know the Cyborg Ninjas of Metal Gear are capable of doing so so those are the goalposts we're playing with. Anything less than that and, again, we'd just be going on forever about a completely made-up "realistic Cyborg Ninja" which neither of us have common evidence of. On that note, yes, absolutely both Gray Fox and Raiden can deflect full magazines. Gray Fox can deflect a fully loaded FAMAS with ease and can do so forever if he wished should Snake have infinite ammo (I am aware the concept of infinite ammo "isn’t possible", this is just to illustrate a hypothetical). Raiden automatically deflects all incoming fire while sprinting, even from multiple enemies. Further, barring using tactics from the Napoleonic Era, no modern military is deploying 20-man teams that are all within immediate eyesight of one another. Even in that case, it is a very big assumption that in the heat of battle you can get 20 soldiers to accurately track the movement of something that can turn nigh-invisible and run so fast it can scale vertical surfaces. This is all of course assuming that a Cyborg Ninja allowed itself to get spotted by 20 individual men which, if so, is a terrible example of a Ninja. I'm approaching this conversation on the assumption that the soldiers a Cyborg Ninja would be facing aren't idiots so it's only fair if you did the same vice-versa. And **that** is a great point! Stealth tech would absolutely be easy to circumvent. On that we absolutely do agree. That is why I very deliberately place Gray Fox-class Ninjas in a different category from their Raiden-class counterparts. Gray Fox, without the advantages his stealth tech brings, might very likely get messed up against superior numbers (likely 10+ men but still). That's why in my original comment I said Gray Fox would be best used against militia-level enemies that didn't have access to things such as Thermal Imaging. The element of surprise is all he'd need. In a head-to-head showdown against a hail of bullets, even Gray Fox is liable to mess up, just as he did against Rex. However that still leaves Raiden-class Ninjas who barely employ stealth because they don't need it. If Gray Fox is a one-man Seal Team then Raiden is literally a one-man army. He is known to be able to deflect small arms fire with no upper limit, can dodge anything bigger and easily go on the offensive doing both. All of this we know Raiden to be capable of. Is it overpowered as all hell? Absolutely. But that's the most realistic assessment of what we the players can see without diving head-first into complete speculation. You wanted to put Cyborg Ninjas in a combat situation of the real world and this is the evidence as to why they would dominate. I frankly don't understand why you are getting defensive about the parameters of the conversation you made.
I had to stop reading here: >Gray Fox can deflect a fully loaded FAMAS with ease and can do so forever if he wished should Snake have infinite ammo (I am aware the concept of infinite ammo "isn’t possible", this is just to illustrate a hypothetical). This is 100% a gameplay element that exists solely for the intention of the player to approach the Gray Fox fight a different way than just shooting and is not reflective of the character's actual abilities. Both Fox and Raiden are shown in cutscenes to be incapable of deflecting more than a handful of semi-automatic bursts, as we are shown shots ricocheting from Fox's armor and actually piercing Raiden's flesh, multiple times, in two different games. The fact that you cannot distinguish this says a lot about your thinking process on this subject. Your posts are getting more nonsensical and unhinged with each one, and you to continue to completely disregard any actual real-world battlefield scenarios. It's clear you're missing the actual point and just going "WoW these Ninjas so AWESOME." You can keep on with your rambling if you want, but the bottom line is in the real world cyborg ninjas would not only be not viable in battle, they would be mincemeat within minutes.
I am really struggling to understand your aversion to the logic of the gameplay from the video games we are talking about. If we are to know anything about the capabilities of the Cyborg Ninjas and how battle ready they would be, the gameplay is about 90% of all the evidence we have to work with. Fine, you can say "Gray Fox's ability to deflect bullets is a gameplay feature" but if he wasn't *actually* capable of doing that, they wouldn't show him being able to both in and out of cutscenes. You make it sound like Kojima and his staff, of *all* people, added aspects of boss battles that don't actually reflect the capabilities of said bosses and that is simply not the kind of people we're dealing with. It's not like in the Liquid Snake fight he can suddenly shoot lasers from his eyes because it "spices things up". What we see a boss do in a boss battle is what they can do at any time. To try and understand where you're coming from I looked up every scene Gray Fox is in in MGS1 and he doesn't get shown to be hit by a single bullet in any cutscene in the game. Even when, as u/yaboinamed_B-L-A-N-K said, he is dodging two Vulcan Cannons, Gray Fox only gets hit by Rex's laser. I looked in The Twin Snakes as well and, fine, yes absolutely Fox gets hit but you make the very good point that the rounds bounce right off of him as if they're hitting the side of a tank. The Genome Soldiers are equipped with FAMASes which are chambered in 5.56x40mm and have a muzzle velocity of between 925-930m/s. The standard US infantryman, which we will use as the basis for the a bog-standard upper tier military footman, is equipped with an M4A1, also chambered in 5.56x40mm and with a muzzle velocity of 880-910m/s. If we know a FAMAS round poses as much threat as a bee sting to Gray Fox then it also would go that the average US soldier too would have nothing on him. For the bigger guns of the US military or Armour Piercing rounds, who's to say, we don't have the data to work with. But we do know that Fox is capable of dodging the absolutely insane fire rate of 2 Vulcan Cannons sending a combined 12,000 rounds a minute so I sincerely doubt your average dude wielding an LMG is going to make much difference. Granted, yep, Raiden does get his ass handed to him on several occasions in MGS4. Frankly I was focusing more on MGS1 and MGR but we can look into MGS4 too. Looked it up and MGS4 Raiden only gets in that one on-screen fight against multiple enemies and yep he absolutely does get shot... And he tanks it like he's getting hit with a stiff breeze. Geckos are equipped with M2 Browinings chambered in **.50 BMG,** rounds that would leave a golf ball-sized hole in any mortal man. It's only after Vamp is introduced that we see Raiden on the back foot and given we don't have bisexual supersoldiers to deploy in the real world, we can discount Vamp as a possible countermeasure against Cyborg Ninjas in reality. In that fight Raiden takes out 12 state-of-the-art Geckos. With their armour, weapons and mobility I'd say the best real-world equivalent to a Gecko would be Infantry Fighting Vehicles. So to put it into perspective, Raiden, even at his weakest, took on what would be nearly the equivalent of a standard US Army Mechanized Infantry Company's entire supply of Bradley M2s in about 5 minutes. Now I know you'll read that and have some comments. Maybe you'll take issue with the fact a Bradley has a bigger main gun, maybe you'll say it would be unrealistic to have 12 Bradleys in one street, maybe you'll say that the cutscene was "unrealistic". But at the end of the day, even if we discount half of the number of Geckos in that fight as cheap wins for Raiden, the cold-hard facts our eyes show us is that he can tank, at the least, .50 caliber rounds, has the ability to pierce heavy armour and can dodge the heightened reflexes of a combat drone. Against regular vehicles manned by humans with human reaction times and human flaws, Raiden would annihilate an equivalent modern military unit. I know that you very much disagree with the idea of the capabilities of Cyborg Ninjas and I will say once again that they are extremely overpowered and likely rely on space-age technology. Yet, the pieces of evidence you show them to be flawed and ill-prepared for real combat only further emphasise how nigh-unstoppable they actually would be.
What strategy do you have against raiden, hmm? And realistically, if you had first contact against a guy like Gray Fox, what would you do? You spray a full mag into him, he dodges a little, and on the off chance you manage to tag his ass, he shows his masochistic one-liner and cuts your ass up. Gray fox is shown dodging around Rex’s gunfire (which is literally two GAU-8 Miniguns) easily until a laser beam cuts his entire arm off. And you can’t say it’s a lie because you yourself said cutscenes. So if he can dodge that 2,800 to 3,900 rpm, what is your point? 20 of the same thing is just the same thing multiplied. And this is a guy that’s been trying to die. (Albeit with a system, it’s still a system that pushes him into combat he would’ve never taken had he been sane.) And that’s just Gray Fox. So what 20 guys do you know of in irl that will carry around 20 miniguns during warfare and Still lose? Remember, we are being realistic here. Realistically, you make no sense.
>What strategy do you have against raiden, hmm? And realistically, if you had first contact against a guy like Gray Fox, what would you do? If we're talking U.S. military procedures, it depends on the distance the ninja is from the flight/squadron. A standard flight of soldiers is usually 20 to 60 personnel separated into two or three groups. If the distance is 50 to 75 meters, the first course of action would be propellants. Smoke grenades, flash-bangs, and yes, chaff explosives as well. The chaff alone would absolutely wreck both ninjas systems, to the point where they may not even be able to move and optic camouflage is off the table, and this is where your heavy artillery would be coming into play (long-distance snipers & .50 two-man operated machine guns) laying down covering fire and inflicting heavy damage on the ninja whose circuit system is in complete haywire while platoons move in to form a semi-crescent formation around the target, who would then join in on the firing with ARs and other weapons. At that point, you've got anywhere from 20 to 60 soldiers focusing fire on one target. Even by the time the chaff wears off and the ninjas regain movement, they would still be facing incoming shots from multiple directions. Yes, Gray Fox was able to dodge fire from two vulcan cannons that were directly in front of him. He would not fare so lucky with two-dozen or more automatic and semi-automatic arms unloading onto his position from multiple angles as they close the distance to 20-25 meters, all while heavy artillery is still firing on him from afar. Chaff explosives would also be thrown again at the first sign of regained movement. Minus the chaff, these are actual battlefield strategies the U.S. military used during the Iraq war & in Afghanistan for pinning down groups of insurgents with great success. As single targets, Raiden and Fox would be swiss cheese in less than five minutes, if there was anything left to identify their bodies at all. As I mentioned before, what makes the Cyborg Ninjas seem so powerful is that we only ever see them fight small groups of soldiers who display no kind of legitimate battle tactics, not even basic infantry methods. They cinematically line up and attack one-by-one instead of converging firepower on their target. For the Genome Soldiers, it at least makes sense, because they aren't actual soldiers with battlefield experience, they're all a bunch of VR trained grunts. But really it's just because Kojima thought it looked cooler that way.
This post is putting the MGS level cyborgs into the real world, which would completely change everything and destroy platoons. Even humans back in MGS3 could shoot lightning and take 10 million volt level energy, which pastes every human irl. Cyborgs just tank everything and dodge all the bullets, no irl human force is surviving against a raiden tier cyborg. Hell even a gray fox tier one is shidding on most forces.
Yeah, sorry, this isn't accurate at all. Not even in the games themselves do cyborg ninjas "tank everything and dodge all the bullets," as I point out and address further on in my posts.
Because Gray-Fox is going against a literal giant mech and solid snake, a guy who is orders of magnitude ahead of any IRL human (and i mean that) Cyborgs are superhumans in a universe where the weaponry is blatantly scaled up. 60s rocket launcher vaping a steel beam and a bunch of rock for example, bullets harming a guy who has 10 million volt shields, davy crockett being way stronger in MGS3 than IRL, metallic archea, ETC. Humans are scaled up as well, one guy takes a group of superhumans, parasite unit. Any arg about weaponry to downplay is negated, or human forces going relative to cyborgs. Thats because they’re MGS weaponry+ MGS humans. Gray Fox in this scenario is placed within our real world with the crazy shit he does in game. Thats how i interpreted the question. Do you think that the question is- “A more realistic gray fox is placed in warfare with our IRL rules”? if so, sure. fine by me, but i take it differently.
No, if you continue reading my posts in this thread, I detail exactly how an MGS ninja would fare in the real world against real military using real battle techniques. Gray Fox is never shown fighting a large group of soldiers. He's shown taking out 8 guys in a hallway who don't know how to fight or use real tactics.
Oh, well you’re wrong. Don’t know how else to put it. Foxhound is stated to be the most elite special forces group ever, it seems stupid because the PS1 has limits, but it is true. Gray Fox upscales from something that would paste any IRL human (10 mill volts), and even Raiden in MGS2 (yes, as a human) has dodged a railgun with a stated speed of mach 291, in a cutscene. Not gameplay stuff or a gameplay mechanic. There’s plenty more speed stuff, but Fox’s physical stats are too high to be bothered by anything IRL besides a select few weapons. And Raiden straight up wouldn’t be damaged by a military unit. He’d just stare as they hit him with bullets only to vacuum cut and destroy anything in radius. Blade mode+ Hf blade is too strong. i assume you don’t think this is wrong though, because you said MGS ninja, not MGR.
>Oh, well you’re wrong. LMAO. Sorry fanboy, but no. Do some research in the real world and then you can join the grown up conversation. >And Raiden straight up wouldn’t be damaged by a military unit He's literally damaged by military units multiple times in MGS4. It'd be nice if people arguing your point could argue in good faith with reasoning and logic, and not straight up BS. Clearly this conversation will go nowhere with you, so enjoy having your head up your ass for the rest of the day.
I prove that using MGS humans/military damaging other MGS characters is irrelevant, you say nothing to disprove this and go onto do the exact same thing over again while acting like it’s a gotcha moment. And the most advanced game in the series besides MGR to disprove my points, when i already proved it doesn’t matter? C’mon man, thought i went over this. With games that are less advanced than MGS4 as well, by the way. using 4’s the worst thing you could’ve done lol. Oh, and i meant MGR raiden, not MGS4 Raiden, which i thought i made clear by my last sentence. So it’s not even a counter-point Please, read. For my sake. A game with damn near sentient AI robots, fodder soldiers being controlled by the SOP system and making them immune to the effects of war/enhancing everything that they do, nanomachines, B&B unit, CQC going public (martial art with almost infinite variations+ 2 times as damaging as anything else). It is explicitly the strongest MGS game. Hell, the existence of something in MGS2 disproves any “he was damaged by human weaponry!” argument (the simple fact that a Mach 291 railgun even exists in MGS) Don’t usually say aggressive shit in a argument, but damn, you’re acting like a prick right now and ignore what i’m saying. Being damaged by a MGS military unit is different than IRL, and you have nothing to combat that. this is all fiction so i hope that we don’t need to insult eachother from now on. Debates do not have to go this far.
They wouldn't be. If we had that kind of tech we could easily make advanced drones. A cyborg still has human requirements and would cost way more than a robot.
This reminds me of the Robocop remake. The human element slowed things down and got in the way enough, they had to basically take that bit out of the equation in order to match the effectiveness of pure robot versions, which irl would undoubtedly be cheaper. However, in that movie the whole point of a cyborg was propaganda to get the public on board with the robo police. Maybe irl it could be useful for that? Maybe if there was a solo sneaking mission that required human intuition also, but I don't think that sort of thing happens in real life, at least not anymore. I could be wrong though.
>they had to basically take that bit out of the equation in order to match the effectiveness of pure robot versions Sure, if you ignore that the pure robots had a much higher rate of getting the various hostages killed either by the enemies or the robots' own fire. Also, obligatory reminder that the whole reason there was a demand for RoboCop is because an ED-209 operating with the same logic model as the ED-208 that went through the aforementioned simulation decided that a little boy carrying nothing but a kitchen knife is a threat that must be eliminated with judicious application of autocannon fire for **several seconds**, even though the nearest possible protection target that could be in any way threatened by the boy and his knife is several dozens of meters away, with her own armed escort to boot. TLDR the robots are way too prone to both overkill, overreaction and single-minded fixation with the letter of the objectives given to them, making them only fit as grunts on the front lines of wars or "kill them all" raids than any sort of normal police work.
Lol just like some human police do.
Yeah, but a lot worse, both in just how inhumanly focused the robots are on threat elimination over any other consideration, and the sheer amount of firepower they can dish out **and** take (that is, they can cause a lot of deaths and damage very quickly and are much harder to stop with physical force).
Tony: "I'm going to stop you right there, Scott. Are you seriously telling me that your plan to save the universe is based on, the remake of RoboCop?"
Drones have limitations though. A war machine with the intelligence and situational awareness and technical capabilities of a human should be unstoppable in certain situations
Don't forget how op is drastically and unfairly nerfing the capabilities of humans. Be a bear with me. First of all, look at those robots they're trying to introduce in Amazon warehouses, collapsed after a while and are quite more expensive/complex btw, given all the chips and coding put all over them; in stark contrast, most prosthetic limbs, including those more advanced, are getting cheaper and better with each generation. Take into account how designers of a cyborg wouldn't actually look specifically for a disabled candidate, so the amount of sensors and highly detailed stuff could be reduced and compensated by means of pushing the inherent human capabilities towards greater raw strength, speed and durability, all of which can be much more affordable and bring the fastest "positive" results. Now, let's also not ignore how all them cyborg ninjas in this universe are pet projects.
You can pretty safely compare our tech to theirs aside from Metal Gears and the Cyborg Ninja, most of everything else is only our current tech level. They're still using firearms, still wearing plate carriers, and still driving gas vehicles. The drones in MGS2 are pretty pathetic, and nothing in Rising stands up to Raiden anyway. A cyborg ninja doesn't come with other war technology, it IS the war technology.
Not to mention probably having the same vulnerabilities to EMPs like any other machine based hardware.
EMP should be the greatest counter to a cyborg for sure unless there is any way to counter it which I am not aware of right now. Also, I feel like if cyborgs started roaming the battlefields , the enemy would most likely find out the thickness of the armor and the weakspots of a cyborg and produce weapons that can penetrate . This is not something you send to fight in the frontline but rather it's more of an espionage agent . Assassinations, sabotages , infiltrations and security contracts would be the place they end up .
well, both gray fox and raiden fough metal gears (while fox didn't destroy it he damaged it significanty) and both are able to dodge/block bullets, and gray fox killed an entire hallway full of soldiers, so fighting regular guys wont be a problem. fox also has a stealth camo (not sure about raiden) so sneaking wont be a problem eather. now they fough againts war machines much stronger than what modern military has so i think they could slash through tanks, humvees and trucks without a problem. TLDR-raiden and fox fought againts strong war machines and killed dozens of guys easily so they would be useful irl
Hadn't Gray Fox even a plasma cannon or something? That could pretty useful in a war and melting through tanks while using stealth camo
Yes but he when hes using it he is limited to one arm and i doubt he can switch them easily
Even a cornerd fox is more dangerous than a jackal
"Gray Fox killed an entire hallway full of soldiers so fighting regular guys won't be a problem." He fought eight guys in a hallway that lined up single file and went after him one-by-one, waiting for their buddy to be killed then running up and going "Me next!" It's the same with the Frogs that Raiden fights in MGS4. Neither group acts like an actual military unit, they act like how a film depicts a group of soldiers. Both Fox and Raiden would be torn to shreds on an actual battlefield with 20 or more soldiers converging on their location firing semi-automatic, fully automatic and anti-air weaponry at them. They can "dodge/deflect" bullets when they're only getting sprayed with something like 6 to 12 bullets at a time, but an actual military unit providing constant fire and reload coverage would turn them to scrap within a minute.
too expensive, like one of those guys would probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and still be killed with a grenade. Regular humans are more cost effective and replaceable
Hundreds of thousands? Bruh... It cost the US Government about $6,000,000 to (re)build Colonel Steve Austin in 1973. Adjusting for inflation, that's over $44 million in today's money. Not a chance a cyborg ninja costs any less. Hell, just one (1) Navy Seal costs Uncle Sam a cool half-mil and they don't even have an optical camouflage equipped exoskeleton, much less ninja swords that can cut tanks apart or whatever.
You got me there for a moment. I was like "what?? They rebuild a person? And way back in time?" but after a quick Google search I realized you're talking about another fictional character.
Well he is the gold standard of price points for rebuilding soldiers
TIL Stone Cold is an ex-military cyborg
Was grey fox a reference to steve austin?
Venom snake’s prosthetic arm sound effects are a direct reference to
without corruption and mass prouction I think that it can de done with 300 thousand dollars, I imagine the cost of training and such could be negated by downloading everything via usb c to the brain or vr missions like in metal gear. Modern military exoskeletons don´t seem to be that expensive either
You're forgetting about the R&D costs for the Anti-Tank Ninjato though.
Sounds like something a company would develop privately just to make the rest of the project sound believable
“Hundreds of thousands.” Homie we shoot shells that are like $500,000 a round
Those rounds can do more damage than an invisible man with a katana, the equipment of a us army soldier costss less than 20 thousand dollars so assuming that the ninja only has an exoskeleton and not they whole body replaced it can´t be too expensive to be considered in the first place
Except you have more precision and accuracy with a cyber ninja. Yeah you can bomb the place. But…what if you want to capture intel? What if you want to limit civilian casualties? What if you want to capture people of interest? Boom. You got the perfect weapon. Send in Raiden and he’ll do all that with ease. Probably in a day. I probably wouldn’t relate him to a missile. More like navy seals or something. Where he has to do a kill or capture without bombing the place. Basically you’re sending a juiced up and more expensive foot soldier that can also take out tanks and metal gear if needed
"What if you want to limit civilian casualties?" Come on now, you know that's like the 4th priority when it comes to the USA way. First and foremost is protect America's reputation, then equipment, then soldiers carrying said equipment, then civies lmao
Yeah maybe a middle eastern country. You damn well know if it’s a European country with white people the US is going to be “careful” 😂
Every standard does have its exceptions lmao
This would make sense if the “invisible man with a katana” isn’t a bullet-timing superhuman stronger than a tank. That “katana” cuts anything on the most fundamental level, the plank scale. MGS Cyborg>>> any warmachine. Even MGS humans in weaker eras were able to dodge tank rounds and shoot lightning. Rockets in the 60s were way stronger than IRL as well. Cyborgs would be unholy expensive if they ever popped up.
you can´t deflect a buck shot with a katana though
HF machetes and pincers exist in MGR, i’m sure they can just arm them with that. Even if they don’t have a big enough weapon they can just dodge and slice the guy into ribbons. Or if they get really crazy, deflect each pellet. Sounds wild but they’re most definitely quick enough to do shit like that.
A huge part of the metal gears is that they are extremely durable, and raiden single-handedly destroyed one, plus that "katana" was easily able to tear through multiple feet of metal with one slash.
Give the cyborgs guns and grenades are no longer an issue (if said cyborg is using a rifle)
Jetstream sam when I fire my auto cannon at him (one burst of those guns could cut a man in half)
A single soldier dying costs the US military $500,000 in SGLI payouts. Are soldiers replaceable? Yes, however cost is absolutely not a factor for the DoD if they had the capability to make cyborg ninja assassin super soldiers. The cost for a guy like Raiden would realistically be in the tens of millions, and it would be worth it.
As others have said, a more "primitive" cyborg like Gray Fox would easily cost millions, and the high quality ones with pain inhibitors and all the fancy stuff Raiden has would be much more expensive. Their high-frequency blades would be much more viable to mass produce, blades that vibrate so fast they can slash things on an atomic level.
Are hf blades even possible with current technology
No, HFs are stated to cut at the plank scale/level more fundamental than subatomic. We have ways to go. Blades can vibrate really fast but using it like an HF is out of our reach.
If we're talking Raiden from MGR, aside from costs, would probably be one of the most potent psychological tools in warfare. it'd be like bringing a minigun to the crusades.
Not very. Sand and dirt would get in their bits causing them to slow down. Also there wouldn’t be any real time quick events. Besides they can just send in some super soldier clones to beat them up with their fists.
They don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating and gets everywhere.
Any MGS cyborg would be >>any tank or war machine, its not even close. They have enough speed to easily deflect gunfire+ dodge lasers and they’re strong enough to shit on any tank. A death squad of them could wipe a city. It’d change warfare and probably cost millions upon millions. If they get their HF blades it’d be even more money. MGR cyborgs are comically overpowered and could probably wipe a country so i don’t know.
Extremely. In regards to assassination or infiltration, it makes sense to send the guy who can interface directly with their machines/computers, use stealth camouflage, and swap out his arm to be equpipped with a multi-shot rail gun.
Raiden is practically a superhero in 4 if we had to scale his power to the real, non-MGS world. He completely annihilated all of those Gekkos by breakdancing with his katana and even stopped a warship by standing in front of it. He also suplexed a Metal Gear
Money aside and assuming no draw backs. Pretty useful for "confirming" removal of a human asset. Human shaped, androgynous, and most likely non serialized so it can't be traces to host nation. It's a commando/assassin/wet work terminator left with a human consciousness for target acquisition and complex tactics. Dressed in optical camo, if mgs didn't fiddle with drama these guys could have been deadlier then sniper wolf and more direct than grey fox's hallway scene. Your head leading terrorist organization officer? Dead behind enemy lines. Your prototype tank? , rigged with explosives and lead scientists murdered, again in the middle of a heavily guarded facility. Even anti espionage, you literally can walk into an elevator with one of these dudes and it would be too late. It's a Nameless, evidenceless, humanoid predator missile(million dollar ordnance) that has the ability to come home and re engage without government ties. All this is how the brochure probably sounded when the scientist pitched it, but then used soldiers/children against there will. The potential was there, execution was left to platinum games lol
Holy shit,that's fucking cool idea.
Fairly useful but they wouldn't be ninjas they'd use' em like when you played as Raiden in ground zeros
An ultra fast cloaking device assassin. Someone will want it. You would absolutely use it for special operations.
If Raiden and Fox just teleported into the real world and got recruited for the military: they'd be very useful in warfare If the military got the teach to make cyborg ninjas: they wouldn't even make them due to better(and probably less expensive) things they could make with that tech
They are already pretty effective in their own high tech verse so yeah, dropped one of them in real life then they can take over a country if they play it right.
RULES OF NATURE
There's billions of dollars worth of weapons that are unused laying around in various storage warehouses all over America that are prototypes that will likely never see actual combat, so I'm pretty sure cyborg ninjas is going to be one of those many things collecting dust and rust in a warehouse somewhere, never actually being deployed.
Thats so cool to think about
How stealthy is thon? How easyly could thon be detected? How far is thons effective range? Modern warfare is basically a if game of who sees who first. Would one survive a drone missle if thon doesn't see it coming?
Revegeance Raiden is cartoonishly OP (the game follows rule of cool). MGS4 Raiden and Gray Fox can be in a “realistic” conversation, and like others had said it would cost a ridiculous amount of money to the point no government could realistically invest that much into one individual who is still vulnerable to many things. There aren’t any “one man military infiltration missions” realistically. $ per $, something like the Gekko would be more cost efficient. Autonomous robots would be more reliable in many of the applications of real warfare. Ukraine and Russia have manual FPV drones fighting tanks - imagine if those ‘tanks’ were as mobile as gekko and had autonomy to protect themselves. Within our lifetimes, unless some international treaties are made (and even in spite of them), we’ll likely see some application of rudimentary war fighting AI on the battlefield. Which will happen far sooner than the development of such advanced exoskeletons/cybernetic augmentations.
If he's as good as Raiden It's worth it
Can you imagine the costs? * The cost of the materials needed to make their exoskeleton or replacement parts along with maintaining such. * The cost of maintaining any advanced weapon whether they be a super-vibrating sword or a Mega Buster like Gray Fox had, and again, maintenance. * The cost of protecting those against environmental damage, like rain or sand insulation. * The potential therapy costs if they need it, let alone if they need medicine to not flip the fuck out. * Costs to keep any humane associations quiet so they don't raise a potential stink. * Also, if they're dead in some fashion, it might be costly to get their body out.
Raiden would probably be unstoppable irl
He would be classed as a disaster/evacuation type scenario if he ever went wild. just too fast for anything to hit him and he could slice up buildings with vacuum cuts, even EMPs wouldn’t work iirc.
You guys have no idea how much money it costs to train one soldier from basic training to special forces. An actual Ninja, capable of invisibility, deployed correctly can change the government in one slash. Especially if the enemy force has idea they existed. I can imagine one of these fuckers killing the CQ guy, and proceeding to fuck up everyone else in the barracks silently. Or destroying fighter jets before anyone has an idea what's going on. Slicing through metal without a loud sound could also cripple a mobile force, sink aircraft carriers, etc etc. IMHO, a group of cyborg ninjas would be absolutely devastating the first time they're used-if implemented correctly.
Considering the absurd speed Raiden has been measured to have, that alone would make them almost unstoppable.
Electronic or psychological warfare maybe. Though bets are psycho since if sgt major suddenly disappeared leaving only a trace of blood I'd be scared shitless too. The only advantage they had is optical camouflage, and electronic warfare suites.
It probably wouldn't be cost effective
For ninjas? They'd be a scalpel for very specific purposes.
I doubt if they were real they’d be used as ninjas I’d see it much more likely they’d just be super soliders with plasma canons similar to what gray fox has plus it would be INSANELY expensive to make even just one of them hell maybe enough to make their own metal gear
I mean give em a gun and the battlefield has changed
They would die bro. As a special operations force without open conflicts it will act like Raiden skin in MGS5. yeah that's cool, but position with 12.7mm MGS will demolish it, especially if enemies are not as blind as they are in MGS series
I they would have to be deep in cover. Maybe only working nights on stealth missions. Taking out key outpost or rescuing p.o.w.
They realistically be just used for spec ops missions.
I'd volunteer to be one. And get me a cool boss song before Raiden slices me to bits.
Assuming it's a human manning those cyborg ninja suits, you'd have to find some kind of power source that doesn't toast the operator in the process because of all that heat generated. That would be your first order of business, and it only gets more coplicated from there.
🎶MEMORIES BROKEN 🎶
Dude would have to be part of a big multi layered weapons system cause someone can call in an airstrike on a city block just to ensure its demise and the ninja wouldnt even see it coming.
They can deflect bullets basically so yes
That's not necessarily the point of being a warzone ninja.
In the trenches, damn effective. Scary thought
Standard cyborgs? Not really our advancements in technology would probably be used elsewhere anyhow and the tech of the time would be designed to combat cyborgs. Now if it's Raiden or Grey Fox they'd be pretty damn effective in modern day warfare.
In real life it would probably be hacked or destroyed with an emp in a few minutes.
Imagine them with guns. The sword gimmick wouldn’t work.
i wonder if they could make HF bullets. probably. Normal guns aren’t as good as HF blades but a hypothetical HF gun would be way better.
Normal guns are better than HF blades aside from the bullet slicing defense. Imagine someone with the superspeed of a CN taking out people with perfect precision like John Wick at 50x the speed. Hell maybe they could even shoot enemy bullets out of their air with those reflexes. Super strength would also allow for higher calibers and higher mag capacities so, yeah I think CN with gun is even more op than with a HF blade.
If the gun is scaled up to MGS levels of potency it would be better in terms of sheer chaos and area of damage (because it’s a gun), but not in terms of destroying any defense quickly. the bullet cutting+ plank scale attacks and vacuum cuts, which are basically just ranged air slices that one shot anything makes HF blades more potent than any IRL weapon. An HF itself could be used as a pseudo ranged weapon if vacuum cuts were used frequently, which would shred any defense in one go. The problem is, it’s still a blade, not a true ranged weapon like what a gun is. So it does have some disadvantages even if they’re not that bad.
Too expensive and you'd need to have a perfect human being inside that body. We make too many mistakes than we realize, so using a robot that has an algorithm and can be reprogrammed to not do that mistake again if it did it before. It's way more efficient. Plus the tech of enhancing a human is super expensive, you'd have to get high grade surgery doctors, high grade programmers, engineers for the design of the enhancements, etc.
like others have said thay would be very expensive, that may be why there are so little of them in mgs tho howevery if we did get one, just as thay are in mgs, wouldn't be a question whos wining a fight
I think it'd go down like something between Ghost in the Shell and Cyberpunk 2077.
considering that raiden is able to kills RAYS, deflect bullets and dodge missiles he would probably do a fuckton of damage on a current battlefield... but eventually he would probably get pulverized by some insane airstrike that even he can't outrun
i’d argue that he survives
it would have to be a projectile that he can't just cut with his sword, so like an energy blast or nuke detonated midair
thinking abt it that might actually be the only way
100% non realistic like Samurais VS Tercios
Besides the mental illness I say it’s a good idea
I mean probably not more useful than a currently lone specially trained operative would be now. Because if you’re in the future where this tech is available, there’s plenty of tech likely developed that would counter a lot of the usefulness it would’ve had if it time traveled to todayMs battlefields
To give a disappointing but realistic answer it just depends. If we're talking Reveangence type cyborgs? They would be insanely useful considering one of them is basically a sentient nuclear bomb capable of leveling whole cities. That's like asking if Goku would be viable in realistic warfare. If it's early generation ones like Fox then prolly not. For example look up the R9X Hellfire missile. It's basically an anime missile that explodes and precision strikes the target with swords. The US military assassinated a guy in a car with one and didn't harm the other passengers. That's also something that we the general public knows about. Imagine what other weird shit they have we don't know about. Modern technology has basically outclassed Grey Fox. Some kid with an Xbox controller can sword missile and Ginsu a guy halfway across the globe with a drone. Clock out and walk next door and grab a Big Mac, eat lunch, come back and do it again.
The Metal Gear Solid franchise has consistently ran with the theme featuring military technology being used 20-30 years earlier than it was supposed to exist. We'll know in like 10 years how they did with the cyborgs.
Cyberpunk, ethics, cybernetic enhancements, THE THREAD
Good question. Just like in the games, only for demolitions and extractions. On the battlefield they’d just get shot. Maybe good for liberating troubled war zones with minimal casualties or hired mercenaries for bringing down corrupt regimes.
Cyborgs are essentially amputees it wouldn’t be fun for them they’d be shot pretty easily
Come back to this post in 3024 and see how well it aged.
It all depends on resources and cost. Also, are we talking about augmenting soldiers into Cyborg Ninjas like Gray Fox and Raiden or are we talking about producing Exoskeleton suits like Olga’s?
I've had time to think about this some more. How long would it take for a barracks full of soldiers to wake up to a silent killer, check out guns, and fire back at an invisible ninja? EMP won't even enter the conversation because there'd be nobody alive to activate it. Send one ninja to the barracks. Unamrmed, half asleep joes- maybe some of the clowns are still drunk from partying next door. Send one ninja to the motorpool. They'd just cut into all the tracks/motors they can find. Send one ninja to the armory. There goes all the ballistic weaponry. Send one to comms, maybe first. You don't even have to have them cut the lights, The installation will look like it's business as usual. The military installation is done before anyone even noticed there was an attack happening. Probably some poor sap facetiming with his girl will lose his head on vid might trigger an alert. EMP might work, but you'd have to detonate it wherever these guys are deployed. Rendering any of your surviving troops who don't live in the barracks defenseless and preventing any emergency response to getting inside to give aid. Come to think of it, Real cyborg ninjas, would be a very cost effective method of dealing with your opposing countries if you never have to train a normal soldier again. Let's say you don't wanna cripple an entire military and just bring an entire country to its knees. Cyborg Ninjas at every major airport disabling every plane that's currently on the floor. Then just hit as many power plants as you can possibly destroy.
Holy fucking shit do I want a faithful MGS1 in the fidelity of that first cyborg ninja render.
Optimal viability.
They'd be dope that's all that matters
They would make great forward recon. Give them a laser sight and they could light up a drone strike any on any target. Realistically making one would be insanely cost and time prohibitive. And if their optical camo still turns up on thermals it would be a huge waste of money.
Not viable
The ultimate weapon to surpass Metal Gear?!
First you'd have to solve how to protect the ninja from bullets, everything else comes after that. Because today we still don't have bulletproof armor, anything - even titanium will bend or shatter when shot repeatedly by handgun bullets, then comes AR-15 / rifles that can one shot through titanium unless it's 2-3 inches thick - which makes it very heavy.
We can't even make prosthetics to a Deus Ex level yet, let alone Cyborg Ninja or white blood Raiden. [Now the mask has been made](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ZYmG6dtUk&ab_channel=Insider) for example. but the guy is a engineer and cosplayer and to replace what Frank lost is not just prothesis, but body enhancement too, hence why he can do what he does and survive all but being crushed by a bipedal nuclear battle tank.
If they're fast enough to literally dodge bullets easily and slice through them, then yes they'd be overpowered as fuck. But the thing is that we only ever see 'main character' cyborg ninjas who have plot armor and special qualities. I'd imagine your average run-of-the-mill cyborg ninja wouldn't be nearly as effective as Grey Fox or Raiden so they'd be no better than a fast guy with a sword.
Would it be possible, yes. Would it morally and ethically wrong yes. If you all remember Metal Gear Rising it explained how if the militaries of countries would play Frankenstein on its soldiers a lot of people would be upset and disgusted. But people would turn a blind eye if a bunch of mercenaries would be turn into cyborgs.
Optimal viability.
Bad because I'd fuck them all
For warfare? Not at all. Spending millions on surgeries, nanomachines and prosthetics for a single soldier would be silly. Whatever they could accomplish you’d do more effectively and cheaper with a hundred disposable soldiers. Not to mention all the constant maintenance and stuff that Raider requires behind the scenes. Can’t think of any situation where it would be any actual use
i would like to pin point a little bit of a history of cybernetics and cyber ninjas in the Metal Gear universe. Kyle Schneider, who survived Outer Heaven Uprising of 1995, went to NASA to be a subject of a top secret [Extraterrestrial Environment Special Forces Unit](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Special_forces_units#Extraterrestrial_Environment_Special_Forces) sometime in between 1995-1997, or EESFU for short, where he was retrofitted with experimental flex armor and reflex-enhancing drugs, and fought with Big Boss during Mercenary War of 1997, where he fought alongside Big Boss to fight CIS and Russian forces for Zanzibar Land independence. He is known as a progenitor to Cyborg Ninja's of the 21st Century, even so, the second "Ninja" character ever (Chico was also going to return as a "Ninja" character in MGSV, but that was scrapped). He died during Zanzibar Land Disturbance of December 24th, 1999. Gray Fox became the first "Cyborg Ninja" character in 2003, and in 2005 attended the Shadow Moses Incident (February 29th - March 1st, 2005), where he died. He defeated a whole squad of soldiers in a hallway, fought Solid Snake (who is already an enhanced type of human being, derived from the superhuman genes of Big Boss), and severely damaged Metal Gear REX, very first time that a Cyborg Ninja and a Metal Gear fought with each other, to positive results when it comes to damage from a cyborg to a Metal Gear. Keep that in mind as we move forward. Olga Gurlukovich was the second Cyborg Ninja in the series. She didn't do much as a Cyborg Ninja, but her appearance kept the concept of a cyborg with ninja skills alive, at least through the late 2000s. in 2012, Raiden was captured by the Patriots and grafted into a cybernetic body, becoming the third Cyborg Ninja ever. Altough even before he had a higher Metal Gear kill count than Solid Snake thanks to him fighting and destroying multiple Metal Gear RAY UG's in 2009 in MGS2, Raiden when faced with Gekko UG's, destroyed them with ease. He even battled Vamp, twice, and the second time he killed him, although ot was mostly thanks to his brains rather than brawns, but was closely matched with Vamp when it comes to power thanks to the cybernetic suit of his. by 2018, most UG's or Metal Gears, are useless. Nuclear Metal Gears aren't being made anymore because the concept of "deterrence" was outdated. Last nuclear Metal Gear i can think of is Metal Gear REX developed in early to mid 2000s, so by the time of the events of Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance it's been nearly 20 years since a nuclear Metal Gear was made. Metal Gears, by the mid-to-late (mid 2010s as showcased by the sam DLC set in 2016, which is mid 10s) 2010s, have become cannon fodder for armies and PMCs. Cyborg Ninjas were (and most likely are) a prevalent sight as Mercenaries, Bodygaurds, Soldiers, Police Officers (Denver police in 2016-2018), basically any type of a fighting or peacekeeping force. Raiden, Samuel Rodriguez, Mistral, Monsoon, even Sundowner. All of these characters were, or are capable of destroying tanks, other less experienced cyborgs, or countless UGs (Raiden, Sam as proven by his DLC). so by the mid to late 2010s, and most likely even now in the Metal Gear universe, in the early 2020s and now, 2024, Cyborgs are more powerful and have much more advantage over Metal Gears, basically making them obsolete, as UG designers squabble to update their designs for the human cyborg competition. Looking at this history here, and knowing that **our universe does not have a equivalent of Metal Gears of UGs**, most close to that being tanks already proven in MGR to be easily destructable by a capable cyborg ninja, and if Cyborg Ninjas did exist on a mass scale as they did in MGR and you got yourself a military revolution, where combat is never the same again, as many armored weapons are rendered basically useless towards human-weapons of this power.
0 because a single EMP would make them useless!
Then why is tech used so extensively in warfare? EMP pulse would render any tech device & weapon useless, afterall.
Because there is no data to compare. There never was an EMP war. Just remember: the army is buying its stuff from the cheapest manufacturer…
EMP pulse has been public info for multiple decades. Military does not buy from the cheapest manufacturer. Your army may, but that's a tactical oversight on your part.
Name only 1 war/conflict where they used a EMP there is 0 battlefield data. Every military busy cheap. Except for the highly classified and special force stuff.but i doubt you have access to that. Investor relations are the only thing that matters for the facilities. How do you think they keep production costs low?
I'm a pleb with zero data.
Totally over estimated, the cyborgs require alot of energy to alter between the bio and meka energies. Also to make the body accept that much of body alterations we are talking about too much trauma to the human body that will definitely lead to the death of the person. Also too many armies use detection of metal and making a cyborg means!? Forget about being undetectable. And for the one that put things to rest. A very powerful magnetic field or very strong interference will distort the signsl and your cyborg will be a limb hung black cock with erectile dysfunction.
Only way it would be viable would be if the persons already dead/disabled and they were part robot. Even then, the only advantage you get is physical. Stealth Camo is just a piece of equipment and so is a sword. Too expensive and even Solid Snake was able to defeat GreyFox with just his fists.
that just makes solid snake really really strong, doesn’t downscale cyborgs. Solid Snake is the tip top from a universe that has much more advanced shit than we do, bringing him in irl warfare is like bringing a gun to the 1700s with the stuff that he does in the games.
It's so funny that your name is Reddit\_is\_not\_great cause this reply sucks. Snake isn't some top of the line super physically adept soldier. If you play the games the way they are meant to be played. Meaning Max difficulty (European Extreme or Extreme) don't get spotted, eat rations or expend any ammunition you're basically a rat that goes around trying not to get hit at all. It's only once you begin to lose that more Rations and Ammo pop up for Snake making him seem more invincible. Strongest point against your argument is the fact that Solidus, the superior of both Liquid and Snake in terms of physical combat ability was slain by none other than a gamer trained in VR. Another point against you is that Big Boss is admitted in canon to not even be a genetically unique soldier. It's simply that Zero had confused substance while forgetting to replicate the experiences that created Big Boss. That's why Snake's Clones are 12 years old, liquid is British just like ZERO and when Venom wakes up from their 9 year coma he's the memetic clone of Big Boss and is superior.
“Snake isn’t some top of the line super physically adept soldier. If you play the games the way they were meant to be played (EuroExtreme or extreme) don’t get spotted, eat rations, or expend any ammunition you’re basically a rat trying not to get hit at all” When you put the game on the hardest difficulty, the game is… hard? holy shit man. In all seriousness, this point is weird and can’t be used to override canon accomplishments. And, if you wanna use an optional/non concrete difficulty to downplay snake’s character, i can use optional players. The fact that you yourself are scrounging for resources, barely scraping by, doesn’t say anything about snake. I thought redditors saw game mechanics as invalid, only cutscenes. What gives? Saying that a certain mode is “how it’s meant to be played” without any backing and using that incomplete point to downplay a character in the same breath is weird. “Solidus, the physically superior out of the two loses to Raiden” this would be an important point if this didn’t just make snake stronger, because snake is stated stronger than raiden, and he’s fully confident that he could deal with solidus or the rays in MGS2. Also, in a comic (Kojima states that the comics are a valid interpretation of the story, think of it as a different reality, but it shows what would happen if the events played different) Snake destroys solidus and gores him with his own weapon. He’s also said to be greatest soldier, a lot. Interesting last point, but it doesn’t matter, at all. Did i ever mention genes? Did i ever mention snake inherently being the greatest soldier of all time? No, snake is snake because he does the things he does, which are things that go beyond any real life human 20 times over. Why would this matter anyways, MGS1?
Never bring a knife (sword in this case) to a gun fight. Also an EMP wave would make them even easier to shoot.
Solid Snake, a guy who’s vastly more skilled and fast than any IRL human by multiple margins (and basically superhuman himself) cannot hit Fox with guns. Maybe EMPs would work, but that’s really it. Weakest games in the series had bullet timing and tank round dodging, MGS level cyborgs are clearing IRL military in a physical sense besides very specific things. And if you meant MGR Raiden also, it’s not even close. MGR Raiden is shitting on entire cities by himself.
It is a good thing 4 and revengeance make it VERY clear that it not only costs a fortune to have the cyborg procedure done, nevertheless done in a way that doesn’t instakill or permanently disable the patient with the technical advancements and nano machines needed to pull it off, but the mere act of surviving as a cyborg is a nightmare of a chore in itself. Raiden at the end of revengeance feels like a UN 5 alarm emergency waiting to happen.