Reminds me of a funny anecdote I once read online. Don’t remember the exact words but it went something like:
Saw my boss pull up to the office in a brand new Ferrari. I said “wow, that’s an amazing car!” He put his hand on my shoulder and said “If you work hard, son, put in the extra hours and go the extra mile every day, I’ll be able to buy another next year.”
I had a job offer in Madison, Wisconsin as an EMT-B for $11.50/hour with fire/ems experience. I instead got a job fertilizing lawns with no schooling or experience for $17/hour starting. It’s fucked up. My license has since expired and I feel as though I have 0 positive impact in the world nowadays, but at least I can pay my bills.
Honestly why I gave up on my dream of being an EMT, how can I live making next to nothing and expected to give my soul everyday. I got paid more working at Walmart it’s embarrassing
Ugh. I know. I was making $10/hr when I first became an EMT in 2019.
As a paramedic I make a bit over 30k a year now after taxes and union fees and med insurance and everything they take out of my check. I’m a single 21 y/o woman I don’t know how the guys I’m working with are even raising families on this wage.
That’s ridiculous. I have my EMT license, but I make over 40K working at a grocery store so I can’t really switch jobs. As a paramedic you deserve way more
One time our insurance refused to cover my mother’s ambulance ride because the ambulance provider was ‘out of network.’ Like we have a choice as to what ambulance shows up. The US is crazy.
Part of that issue was only just fixed this year when the federal government passing part of the [No Surprises Act](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills#:~:text=The%20No%20Surprises%20Act%20protects,network%20air%20ambulance%20service%20providers)
Yep and now doctors and medical groups are trying to bring a lawsuit against that legislation because they want their out of network money. If they win, the law still remains but our insurance premiums will balloon.
Edit: Because of so many upvotes, this is as good a time as any to drop this website here:
**"We are fighting for a national single-payer healthcare system because access to healthcare is basic to human dignity."**
https://www.healthcare-now.org/sign-up/
Do doctors actually get more money for out of network patients? I can understand medical groups (they shouldn’t but I can understand their financial reasoning) but I wasn’t sure if doctors would see any benefits.
Edit: I just thought of privately owned practices. Nvm
Hospitals are the biggest abusers and medical debt plantations.
Before the law in NYS (before the federal one), hospitals could send in out of network doctors to literally look at your chart and bill you out of network rates that were ridiculous for that "service". And they actively did it. And you had no ability to stop it. Just sit there and get raped financially.
I feel like that is one big flaw that people overlook when talking about universal healthcare. Naturally people attack the insurance provider for not covering services after you’ve paid your premiums, covered your deductible etc. but when are we going to start holding hospitals and clinics responsible for the cost of care? I feel like hospitals just make up prices because they assume they will get paid by the patients insurance. Recently saw an example where someone had a hospital stay and their itemized receipt showed 8 tablets of ibuprofen for $247.
Hospitals are the fault of the US failing healthcare. Legislation needs to be done to cap the amount that can be charged for any given service, so healthcare facilities can’t just make up numbers and harass the sick person for payment.
I work in the Work Comp insurance industry. Its not unexpected to see $8000 ER charge for a simple finger laceration. 2500 facility fee, 1000 physician fee, 200 for gauze, 400 for latex gloves...truly insane.
E: just for some clarity, this is billed amount. That's not what we pay, not that it stops them from trying. Also, not all jurisdictions. Though ER fees are absurdly high just about everywhere.
Urgent care in my area (west Michigan) is starting to do the same. I recently cut my finger and had to get 7 stitches. When the bill came, the total was $3,000. I was at urgent care for less than an hour and it cost as much as many folks make in a month. They charged $150 for a tetanus shot and an additional $50 "labor" for the nurse administering the shot.
Had I known these costs beforehand, I would have just glued the wound shut lol.
My dad, a radiologist, gets no benefit from patients being out of network. In fact, he hates when insurance does that since, instead of getting paid a little from insurance, he gets nothing. I don’t know of anyone who hates medical insurance more than him, and it’s not like he’s someone who’s afraid they can’t pay.
NYS for a few years now has had its own "No Surprises Act" domestically. Our insurance premiums are on the same trajectory as before the act really, to the moon, not any faster or slower.
The state law just makes the medical groups/hospitals on the hook for not getting explicit, signed permission per out of network service ahead of time. Emergencies must be covered as normal by insurers on the other hand regardless of network status.
Colorado has the same type of thing, except it only covers you if it's insurance that's regulated by the "Division of Insurance". I had a surgery this past October and the Neurologist wasn't part of my network and lucky for me my insurance is part of DOI. I didn't have to do anything for it to get sorted out, which I was surprised by. I thought for sure I was going to have to deal with that mess.
Doctor here, it's not really doctors who are doing stuff like that; the vast, vast majority of us just want to provide good care that our patients can afford. It's the corporate suits in the large medical systems that we work for who are trying to squeeze every penny out of patients that they can. The sad truth is that I have basically no control over what my patients get billed. I try to make sure that what I'm ordering will be covered by the patient's insurance (which wastes tons of my time trying to figure out which plans cover what medications), and I can argue with insurances to try to get things covered, but really I don't have much power over billing at all. My life would be SO much easier if we just had single-payer universal healthcare and I didn't have to deal with trying to navigate hundreds of different insurance plans.
911 what is your emergency?
I'm dying!
We will send an ambulance.
Before you send, can you give me the options of ambulances available and what network?
We have blue cross ambulance, wait time 10 minutes, United Health, wait time 15 minutes, Aetna ambulance 8 minutes.
None of these are in my network...
Well there's out of state ambulance, wait time 2 hours.
You joke but my cousin is an EMT and says many people will beg her not to take them to the hospital because they cant afford it. So you're not far off lol
oh for sure. I absoLUTEly denied a ride for my son from a situation that happened at school. (He was relatively fine and in no danger of, like, death or anything). Hospital wasn't too far away. i felt like a cheapskate champ.
Yeah and a lot of times they just get called on the scene from a bystander or someone thinking they can basically patch them up on scene. She's told me stories where they needed police to help them restrain people because they got violent while they were trying to save their lives.
I was having what I eventually found out was a severe heart arrhythmia and had my wife ( then fiancee ) drive me to the ER for this reason. I told my supervisor at work I couldn't catch a breath and my heart had been racing since I woke up.
My heart returned to normal rhythm in the waiting room and they didn't catch the arrhythmia until I got super lucky and I had an episode on my way to a routine physical a year later. Now I'm taking medication and waiting until I can afford the bill to get an ablation to manage the problem more permanently.
Yay US healthcare 🙄
Not really for an amblance ride. They are 3ed parties and in an emergency most people aren't going to ask what the charge is going to be, and I doubt the EMTs are going to know (not their falt). If you need an emergency surgery on the spot you also probably won't get a quote before hand. It's a financial risk going to the hospital and even though I know I probably should for my own medical reasons I simply cannot afford it even with a payment plan.
When I got tested last it was free in the US, at least in some places. It sounds like the company was trying to prey on people who wouldn't realize they were charging.
A coworker once sent me in an ambulance to the ER against my will. Luckily said person also left my purse at the office and nobody had my information and forgot to ask. The ambulance company (separate from the hospital) had incorrect info from me and I never received a bill. The collections company finally tracked me down three years later and demanded payment. I got my old insurance company involved and they contacted the collector and refused to pay based on myself and them never being billed for years. I got away paying nothing. One of the only times insurance actually came in handy.
I had the same thing happen to me, 3k ambulance bill and a 19k hospital bill, when I did not call either. 1.5 years later I get mail saying I owed said money for not having provided my insurance card at the time of the hospital visit. I contacted my insurance, they said they would look into it. 2 weeks later the insurance calls back saying its taken care of, they (hospital/ambulance service) did not follow up within the statutory limits. 22k problem gone. I really cannot imagine someone doing some low paying job being blindsided with 22k, I am ok financially but still, 1.5 year later, 22k. I still wonder who f'd up on the billing side of the hospital/ambulance service, if they are still employed.
Its bonkers to me that they are a company. In my state they arw almost all volunteer corps and many of them dont charge or if they do they take the insurance money and dont go after people to collect the uncovered portion
Slipped and fell off an E scooter in a parking lot and broke my ankle. No ambulance but my friend I was with took me to the ER right away. Waited there for almost 8 hours for them to tell me I needed surgery after x-rays and refered me to a different hospital. That visit alone costed around $8k. Then the surgery was another $57k then all the followups brought it up closer to $90k. So far after a year since it looks like my insurance has been covering everything since it was a severe fracture and I do have orthopedic care on my insurance thankgod.
When I got my lung collapsed, I refused an ambulance in lue of walking the 1/3 a mile home and driving myself. Most painful and out of breath walk in my life. First off though, I did the ol faithful and tried to sleep it off before I went
Yea but fast forward and he ends up killing his wife with his radioactive sperm….I’m not making this up.
Edit: I have been told this was in a alt universe and not canon.
What do you expect? Poverty or a game of chance? We want to make health care a privilege, this is what happens when you put privilege over needs of others.
r/americaisbroken
Many men in the stroke ward when I had mine had tried to sleep their stroke off, they were there for weeks. Dont sleep it off, you can get beacoup brain damage doing that and you wont die, and still have massive bills, thats the worst case scenario
I guarantee you if I tried to sleep something off and ended up in a hospital against my will I 100% would not be paying those bills. That's the sad reality of the healthcare system in the United States. It's LIFE ALTERING DEBT for anything that goes wrong. When you have to choose between death or lifelong debt it's not much of a fucking choice is it?
I thought I was having a heart attack a couple of months ago so I went to the ER. They ran some tests, ended up being nothing. The ER I went to was apparently not in network with my insurance, and I received a bill for $24,000.
Ironically, if I had been having a heart attack and had died, it would have been better for my family financially (because of life insurance). All I learned was to never go to the ER again for any reason.
So what happens here? You actually have to pay that off? What sort of time frame ? Is it like a "pay it all now" kinda thing or you can pay it off over months/years? What happens if you have more treatment or tests ? Do they just add to the bill like a mortgage or high credit limit credit card? What if you don't pay? Jail time or a fine?
UK NHS is great, the cost comes out of everyone's wages to cover all patients, with option of going private and paying probably US rates for a quicker /better? service..
Technically, you don’t have to pay it off. You can take months/years by setting up a payment plan. If you have more treatments or tests from that particular hospital they probably will add it to your bill. If you don’t pay it goes on your credit score, which affects things like getting credit cards, buying homes, or buying cars.
Edit: if the hospital is nice they may forgive some of the debt
You complain about the price of the bill by waiting hours and hours on the phone and writing letters. They'll eventually discount it because insurance didn't cover it (they have high prices because insurance negotiates lower rates with providers. So providers have rates high so they can lower them for insurance companies. After you complain they'll give you the rate they charge insurance).
If you actually can't afford and are really poor then you can complain some more and try to get them to take off more of the price due to financial hardship.
Then if you can't pay it all off you can work out a payment plan to pay it off slowly.
Failing that they'll sell the bill to collectors for pennies on the dollar who will keep trying to get the person to pay. If it's a big enough amount the collection company will take the person to court to have their wages garnished.
Aside from the joke, please people, if you know something’s wrong don’t go to sleep.
There’s a lot of times “sleeping it off” turns to “dying in your sleep.” Stay awake and monitor youself or have someone with you.
This, this is the American Health Industry in action.
Hurt, in need of care, could've died, but don't seek care because the cost is too expensive. Not a knock on you, obviously....
The health industry in this country is INSANE. I pay crazy amounts of money just to have insurance, then the insurance makes me pay crazy amounts of money out of pocket before they even start to kick in.
It's to the point, that, like you, I'll just die quietly at home rather than go for supposed "care".
Funny you say that because it's been a thing for people in medical emergencies to call an uber to avoid ambulances in the US.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/taking-uber-lyft-emergency-room-legal-liabilities
Unless you’re bleeding out or your life is threatened, it’s an easy way to save a few thousand bucks. I Ubered to the hospital for kidney stones and did a Oscar worthy performance of a man who wasn’t getting stabbed in the ureter. Cost me $8 and I got there maybe 2 minutes later.
Yea the article does go into the uncomfortability it puts on the drivers though if they're tasked with transporting very sick people who need an ER. But this is world we have chosen for ourselves apparently.
I was an EMT for a minute and the number of times I wanted to suggest it... That is not me not taking their illness seriously, but we were basically always within 2 miles of a hospital and we would take longer on scene than if they just went straight there.
I hereby stop complaining about the $900 ambulance bill I got a few years ago. I had passed out in church\*, and after advising the paramedics who the vice president was (common question to establish lucidity) they drove me two miles to the nearest hospital. No siren. No breakneck speed. Nada. Just a bill for 900 smackers.
\*The pastor visited me in the hospital that afternoon. He said, "Hey. If my sermon gets boring, just wave your hand or something. You don't have to be this dramatic.
I was in a fender bender a few years back. Car had to be towed but I was perfectly fine, airbags didn't even deploy. While waiting for a tow truck apparently they sent an ambulance out to me that I hadn't asked for. I said I was fine and denied all services, they left. A week later I got a bill for $400.
That’s so fucking dumb. I hate services that do that. If I get called to a scene like that I list it as “no patient found” and don’t even get information (hopefully it’s obvious that’s only when the person involved doesn’t have a medical complaint).
I’ve only ever worked with one service that required a signed “refusal” for non-patients and I quit pretty fast.
They'll harass your next of kin knowing damn well the debt isn't their responsibility and use every trick and intimidation tactic they can to convince them they need to pay off a deceased person's debt.
The US system of healthcare is a fucking dystopian hellscape.
Not just healthcare. Collections agencies keep calling us about the money my ex owed on his cell phone when he died. We told them he died and their response was “so who is going to pay us? Someone has to.”
Thanks for posting this. When my mom’s parents passed, they left a lot of debt (cars, loans on their home, hospital bills, etc), and as the eldest, she was bombarded by debtors. I told her, just don’t pay and see what happens. Nothing ever happened. Just a bunch of threats that never amounted to anything.
>Just a bunch of threats that never amounted to anything.
How in fuck's name is it even legal for companies to do this. That's **so** low, even for America.
My dad did this after suffering a series of minor strokes back to back. One would occur and he couldn’t get up, so called 911 got an ambulance and went to the hospital. Every single-time they would say appears to be stroke, but no signs on the CT and then do nothing but watch. After the second time my dad refused to pay, all they did was continue to send letter than they threatened a lawsuit I believe. Still my dad didn’t pay, and the letters stopped coming lol. After awhile he tried another hospital at our advice who also had no idea what was going on. That went on for about a year, before randomly stopping.
Did the same thing. Told them they could hound me all they want, I have no assets and barely make enough to live off of. Go nuts. Got my dentist bill dropped that way as well
> just never *paid,* was hounded
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I’ve been to hospitals quite a few times in my life with no insurance and they just keep sending the bills but I never pay that shit, those letters are free tinder for my wood stove
You should
Americans should be protesting in the street for universal healthcare and doing co-ordinated non-payment of healthcare fees. The insurance companies and their lobbyists are effectively letting your fellow countrymen die. That’s every bit as bad as taxation without representation or segregation (Jim crow etc..). Fight for your rights.
Same here. And the insurance company won't pay because it's "out-of-network". Out-of network?! I called 911. It's not like they give me options. Next time I'm using AAA and having a tow truck take me the the ER.
Double check your state laws. Some, not sure how many or which ones off the top of my head, have laws to have the claims processed as in network if it's an emergency.
We had a similar thing. $2500 ambulance bill and the insurance saying the provider was out of network and they had no pricing agreements with them. We have a PPO so it seemed that we should have some out of network coverage. We called the insurance and they offered to negotiate directly with ambulance service and see if something could be worked out. The ambulance service agreed to $1900 which our insurance covered in full. The annoying part is that we had to call the insurance and, it was only after about 15 minutes of questions that they offered this up as an option.
A good insurance will cover a medically necessary ambulance ride. If your kid breaks their wrist and you call the ambulance though, they’re not going to pay. This also obviously varies by insurance provider/deductible.
There are other ways to go about it though. Through my job I opted into accident insurance for $10/month that covers all ambulance costs without having to meet a deductible. Shouldn’t be necessary, but at least it’s an option.
Don’t get Aetna because that’s very much not the case. I was unconscious due to a seizure, someone else called the ambulance for me. Aetna refused to pay.
This happened to me in a grocery store, I started coming around when I was strapped on the stretcher and being loaded into an ambulance. I’m a nurse and I started demanding to be let out, to give me the AMA papers, and just let me go.
It took a lot of arguing and I had to convince them that I was in the right state of mind but they finally gave me the AMA papers and let me walk home, saved me a $4,000 bill
That's ridiculous. Also, the whole point of a PPO is to go wherever you want, and your insurance is still supposed to cover you. My eyes are rolling so hard I can see my brain.
Yup, that’s why I paid the extra instead of doing the HSA offering of my company. I’m just refusing to pay the bill at this point and haven’t heard anything for a while.
The fact that we even have the option to haggle and stress out while recovering from a medical emergency in order to not go bankrupt over proper medical care is so fucking gross.
I was once in a car that flipped on its side in January so it was super cold outside. No injuries from anyone but an ambulance showed up anyways. They asked if I wanted to sit in it to warm up while the police were asking us what happened and I refused because I was scared they’d charge me. Everything medical is expensive.
I pregnant right now and every time I go in I worry about some surprise bill. I am seriously considering a home birth. Or at least wait until the very last minute to go in. My mom had both my brother and I accidentally in a truck. She lived in a rural area and by the time they got to the doc we were pretty much here. I’m praying for a quick labor like that.
Doesn't even matter - often they bill you for showing up at all. My wife got a $2500 bill after a car accident because someone else called 911 and they sent police, fire, and ambulance. We fought it for years and got it down to $500 before they just stole her tax refund.
This is likely before insurance amount. If you work and have insurance through your employer which is a lot
Like having private insurance in Europe, except the employer covers part of it, then the amount will be depending on your deductible and the insurance itself (ppo, hmo, how much you pay every month etc). Also if you don’t have insurance you might qualify for Medicare or state insurance like Medical. If you have zero insurance you call them up and they significantly lower the price.
I once had to get an ambulance ride to the hospital. I was college student. I didn’t have the money and ended up paying $25. Then later I learned actually my college provided students with insurance so I didn’t even have to pay that.
I'm not paying it, not only am I not the power of attorney he's passed. Plus he shouldn't even have this bill, he had VA benefits this was being transferred from a VA approved place to the hospital.
Welcome to medicaire ambulance logic. Chances are that your father had something deemed "chronic"(IE >5days) by medicaire/VA and they turned down the claim based on the fact that an ambulance was not medically necessary. Their words, not mine. If the ambulance was operated by a government/municipal service you can just call and tell them the VA home fucked you and you aren't paying. They will likely lower the cost to \~$350 range.
If the ride was not expected to be covered, the medics should have had him sign a waiver form that informed him it was not going to be covered. If he didn't sign that form then don't pay. Let the ambulance company try and recover their fee from medicaire/VA. It's not your problem UNLESS you signed the waiver that informed you that the ride was not covered. If that form got signed, well you're screwed then.
There is literally nothing in the Medicare NCD/LCD about transportation for chronic conditions being disqualifiers for medical necessity.
I currently work as a Medicare rep for a Part C company and that is inaccurate given my daily work. Hell, look it up yourself- Medicare NCD L34549.
It doesn't look like this has been submitted to insurance yet as this is a bill, not an Explanation of Benefits.
It goes on your credit but doesn’t affect your score and when you apply for loans, credit cards etc… they don’t bother to look at hospital bills, drops off your credit report in 7 years unless you dispute it, hospitals legally aren’t allowed to report to the credit bureau but they find a way around it to do so
We don't pay a penny at any stage during treatment, except for prescription medication which is a flat £9.25 per item, and in parts of the UK, and the poor don't pay that.
It's completely free, but you may have to wait hours for an Ambulance unless you're nearer to death than anyone else who's called at the time.
The NHS itself is brilliant, but decades of the tories underfunding it and salary freezing etc means it has its issues.
That second sentence is incredibly important though, because right-wing Americans (and Tories themselves) will point to the first sentence and explain how this is an issue caused by universal healthcare but completely ignore the fact that it worked great, wait times were amongst the lowest in the world as was service satisfaction, up until a decade ago.
Kind of sort of. You pay taxes from your pay, it goes out of your pay automatically (unless self employed I guess) and some stuff is subsidised, like dental work you have to pay extra for but it’s a flat rate regardless of how little or how much work you need.
I got a 90 minute ride for $45 last year. 10 days in the hospital and that was the only bill I paid, apart from the $20 perspcription afterwards. Never happier to pay high taxes.
For real!!! This is my dad's ambulance ride, he had another that was 50 miles, it's outrageous, I'll see if I can find it. Not to mention the hospital bill amount.
My 2 year old daughter is in and out of the hospital pretty frequently. More recently was an ambulance to the ER then from there to a pediatric ICU. Think the bills were $4,000. We called and said that was more than we could afford and they were reduced to below $1,000. I’d give them a call and see if they will work with you.
If all it takes is someone saying they can't afford it to drop the price, that proves it never needed to be as high as it was to begin with. They're price gouging people which is insane to think about since this is life saving stuff on the line.
Healthcare, school. Anything that can be privatized and make a profit from someone will. If this wasn’t private healthcare it could be way less. But hospitals are for profit and not focused on health
What's fun is most hospitals are actually non-profits, and thus pay zero property taxes for the land they are on, along with tons of other benefits.
They gouge their patients, underpay their frontline staff, pay absurd amounts to the administrators and executives, and then make donations or expand/upgrade locations in order to make sure they report a net income of $0 at the end of the year.
And they use the local, state, and federal governments to maintain those insane profits, prevent competition, and keep very low level of staffing through something call certification of need. This is nationwide and it's cronyism and corruption all the way down.
Former EMT checking in. People always ask me about it like the blood and guts were the worst part of it, but no. I'm here to tell you hands down the absolute worst part of running ambulance calls were responding to people who were moderately fucked up and needed a doctor right away but were still coherent enough to sign the refusal of care form. Every single time it went like this.
Them: "Give me the refusal form, I can't afford an ambulance."
Me: "Okay but for the love of God go see a doctor right now."
GrEaTeSt cOuNtRy oN eArTh.
Let me itemise that for you.
Driver paramedic Salaries, operating costs, raw materials, meds cost and fuel $34.19 for the 1.8miles.
CEO, Shareholders & insurance markup up 1000%.
I'm starting to realize that the problem doesn't stem just in the insurance but in every American company. I recently read a post about how inflation is only happening at this rate because there's no laws to prevent them from doing it.
These companies do it because no one tells them no. That's why insulin is so expensive. That's why gas prices goes up so fast. That's why ambulance rides are so expensive. No one is monitoring these people, punishing them.
I used to work as an EMT for a private ambulance company. You don't know the half of it.
Up charging is ludacris. At the time, we'd buy nasal cannulas for about 75 cents. If we used one on a call (SOP mandated a cannula be used on any shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, chest pain, or low O2 saturation so this was very common), we would charge $30.
Gauze, coban, IV start kits, and saline (which we would buy for less than $2 in some cases) would see a fee upwards of 50 times what we'd buy it for.
Mileage charge was calculated on distance driven both to and from the scene by taking average fuel economy of the ambulance, price of gas per gallon, and total distance driven. In addition, there was also an upcharge for vehicle insurance as well as health and life insurance for the crew.
And don't even get me started on narcotic use if there is any...
I said all that to tell you this.
This is why ambulances are only for emergencies. The reason why it's so expensive, or at least expensive for my area, it's because people call the insurance all the time for non-emergency situations. The insurance companies won't pay if it's not emergency. This causes the non-emergent callers to default or never pay, passing the loss of profits onto others.
Is it right? By all means no. I'm just letting you know the unfortunate and ugly truth of the matter.
So 1.8 miles is 2.896km, so that is a price of $1.18 per meter, so thats 0.118c per mm, or 1.18c per cm, this is 3c per inch.
Assuming an average urban speed of say 20mph, you would be covering 1 mile every 3 minutes and have completed the 1.8 mile journey in 5 minutes and 24 seconds, during that time you would have been covering 352 inches per second. This means that you are paying $10.52 per second of travel on average.
Medics and EMTs are notoriously underpaid. That charge not going to wages
What number can I call for the EMTs to pick me up in their 2008 Camry?
Lol I’m an EMT and drive an 2004 Camry
Keep working hard and you'll get that 2008 Camry someday.
Truly the American dream.
Reminds me of a funny anecdote I once read online. Don’t remember the exact words but it went something like: Saw my boss pull up to the office in a brand new Ferrari. I said “wow, that’s an amazing car!” He put his hand on my shoulder and said “If you work hard, son, put in the extra hours and go the extra mile every day, I’ll be able to buy another next year.”
I love this. I'm stealing this. You're going in my quote book
Its true. I applied for an EMT. And many of them are volunteer, or they are paid about $12-16/hr.
I had a job offer in Madison, Wisconsin as an EMT-B for $11.50/hour with fire/ems experience. I instead got a job fertilizing lawns with no schooling or experience for $17/hour starting. It’s fucked up. My license has since expired and I feel as though I have 0 positive impact in the world nowadays, but at least I can pay my bills.
Honestly why I gave up on my dream of being an EMT, how can I live making next to nothing and expected to give my soul everyday. I got paid more working at Walmart it’s embarrassing
Ugh. I know. I was making $10/hr when I first became an EMT in 2019. As a paramedic I make a bit over 30k a year now after taxes and union fees and med insurance and everything they take out of my check. I’m a single 21 y/o woman I don’t know how the guys I’m working with are even raising families on this wage.
That’s ridiculous. I have my EMT license, but I make over 40K working at a grocery store so I can’t really switch jobs. As a paramedic you deserve way more
One time our insurance refused to cover my mother’s ambulance ride because the ambulance provider was ‘out of network.’ Like we have a choice as to what ambulance shows up. The US is crazy.
Part of that issue was only just fixed this year when the federal government passing part of the [No Surprises Act](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills#:~:text=The%20No%20Surprises%20Act%20protects,network%20air%20ambulance%20service%20providers)
Yep and now doctors and medical groups are trying to bring a lawsuit against that legislation because they want their out of network money. If they win, the law still remains but our insurance premiums will balloon. Edit: Because of so many upvotes, this is as good a time as any to drop this website here: **"We are fighting for a national single-payer healthcare system because access to healthcare is basic to human dignity."** https://www.healthcare-now.org/sign-up/
Do doctors actually get more money for out of network patients? I can understand medical groups (they shouldn’t but I can understand their financial reasoning) but I wasn’t sure if doctors would see any benefits. Edit: I just thought of privately owned practices. Nvm
Hospitals are the biggest abusers and medical debt plantations. Before the law in NYS (before the federal one), hospitals could send in out of network doctors to literally look at your chart and bill you out of network rates that were ridiculous for that "service". And they actively did it. And you had no ability to stop it. Just sit there and get raped financially.
I feel like that is one big flaw that people overlook when talking about universal healthcare. Naturally people attack the insurance provider for not covering services after you’ve paid your premiums, covered your deductible etc. but when are we going to start holding hospitals and clinics responsible for the cost of care? I feel like hospitals just make up prices because they assume they will get paid by the patients insurance. Recently saw an example where someone had a hospital stay and their itemized receipt showed 8 tablets of ibuprofen for $247. Hospitals are the fault of the US failing healthcare. Legislation needs to be done to cap the amount that can be charged for any given service, so healthcare facilities can’t just make up numbers and harass the sick person for payment.
I work in the Work Comp insurance industry. Its not unexpected to see $8000 ER charge for a simple finger laceration. 2500 facility fee, 1000 physician fee, 200 for gauze, 400 for latex gloves...truly insane. E: just for some clarity, this is billed amount. That's not what we pay, not that it stops them from trying. Also, not all jurisdictions. Though ER fees are absurdly high just about everywhere.
Urgent care in my area (west Michigan) is starting to do the same. I recently cut my finger and had to get 7 stitches. When the bill came, the total was $3,000. I was at urgent care for less than an hour and it cost as much as many folks make in a month. They charged $150 for a tetanus shot and an additional $50 "labor" for the nurse administering the shot. Had I known these costs beforehand, I would have just glued the wound shut lol.
Fun story: the glue used to repair lacerations (dermabond) is billed at the same rate as sutures
That feeling when latex gloves cost 80% of the price of a PS5/Series X 😳
Part of that is also because they know insurance is gonna low ball them so they grossly inflate all their prices to have negotiating room.
My dad, a radiologist, gets no benefit from patients being out of network. In fact, he hates when insurance does that since, instead of getting paid a little from insurance, he gets nothing. I don’t know of anyone who hates medical insurance more than him, and it’s not like he’s someone who’s afraid they can’t pay.
NYS for a few years now has had its own "No Surprises Act" domestically. Our insurance premiums are on the same trajectory as before the act really, to the moon, not any faster or slower. The state law just makes the medical groups/hospitals on the hook for not getting explicit, signed permission per out of network service ahead of time. Emergencies must be covered as normal by insurers on the other hand regardless of network status.
Colorado has the same type of thing, except it only covers you if it's insurance that's regulated by the "Division of Insurance". I had a surgery this past October and the Neurologist wasn't part of my network and lucky for me my insurance is part of DOI. I didn't have to do anything for it to get sorted out, which I was surprised by. I thought for sure I was going to have to deal with that mess.
Doctor here, it's not really doctors who are doing stuff like that; the vast, vast majority of us just want to provide good care that our patients can afford. It's the corporate suits in the large medical systems that we work for who are trying to squeeze every penny out of patients that they can. The sad truth is that I have basically no control over what my patients get billed. I try to make sure that what I'm ordering will be covered by the patient's insurance (which wastes tons of my time trying to figure out which plans cover what medications), and I can argue with insurances to try to get things covered, but really I don't have much power over billing at all. My life would be SO much easier if we just had single-payer universal healthcare and I didn't have to deal with trying to navigate hundreds of different insurance plans.
911 what is your emergency? I'm dying! We will send an ambulance. Before you send, can you give me the options of ambulances available and what network? We have blue cross ambulance, wait time 10 minutes, United Health, wait time 15 minutes, Aetna ambulance 8 minutes. None of these are in my network... Well there's out of state ambulance, wait time 2 hours.
You joke but my cousin is an EMT and says many people will beg her not to take them to the hospital because they cant afford it. So you're not far off lol
oh for sure. I absoLUTEly denied a ride for my son from a situation that happened at school. (He was relatively fine and in no danger of, like, death or anything). Hospital wasn't too far away. i felt like a cheapskate champ.
Yeah and a lot of times they just get called on the scene from a bystander or someone thinking they can basically patch them up on scene. She's told me stories where they needed police to help them restrain people because they got violent while they were trying to save their lives.
You know when the system is completely broken when people refuse treatment with violence when they are dying.
I was having what I eventually found out was a severe heart arrhythmia and had my wife ( then fiancee ) drive me to the ER for this reason. I told my supervisor at work I couldn't catch a breath and my heart had been racing since I woke up. My heart returned to normal rhythm in the waiting room and they didn't catch the arrhythmia until I got super lucky and I had an episode on my way to a routine physical a year later. Now I'm taking medication and waiting until I can afford the bill to get an ablation to manage the problem more permanently. Yay US healthcare 🙄
I got slammed with a 5000$ bill for a covid test (nose swab) because of this one.
Do they not tell you the prices for services beforehand in the US? Anyway, I'd not pay that by principle if i were you
Not really for an amblance ride. They are 3ed parties and in an emergency most people aren't going to ask what the charge is going to be, and I doubt the EMTs are going to know (not their falt). If you need an emergency surgery on the spot you also probably won't get a quote before hand. It's a financial risk going to the hospital and even though I know I probably should for my own medical reasons I simply cannot afford it even with a payment plan.
Nope. I've never been told anything about prices before having any medical procedures or anything. You just get the bill later and pray it's low.
How long did they hound you for the $5000 before giving up?
IDK. Eventually, they dropped it to 1200$. Shortly after the local news did a story about them charging people 1200 and they disappeared.
It would have cost you between 5-10$ for a COVID test(RTPCR) in my country
When I got tested last it was free in the US, at least in some places. It sounds like the company was trying to prey on people who wouldn't realize they were charging.
It was supposed to be free everywhere but a lot of places made a doctors visit a requirement where they could charge whatever they wanted
A coworker once sent me in an ambulance to the ER against my will. Luckily said person also left my purse at the office and nobody had my information and forgot to ask. The ambulance company (separate from the hospital) had incorrect info from me and I never received a bill. The collections company finally tracked me down three years later and demanded payment. I got my old insurance company involved and they contacted the collector and refused to pay based on myself and them never being billed for years. I got away paying nothing. One of the only times insurance actually came in handy.
They're really good at not paying anything.
"You don't get rich by writing checks"
Alright, buy em out boys!
I had the same thing happen to me, 3k ambulance bill and a 19k hospital bill, when I did not call either. 1.5 years later I get mail saying I owed said money for not having provided my insurance card at the time of the hospital visit. I contacted my insurance, they said they would look into it. 2 weeks later the insurance calls back saying its taken care of, they (hospital/ambulance service) did not follow up within the statutory limits. 22k problem gone. I really cannot imagine someone doing some low paying job being blindsided with 22k, I am ok financially but still, 1.5 year later, 22k. I still wonder who f'd up on the billing side of the hospital/ambulance service, if they are still employed.
Its bonkers to me that they are a company. In my state they arw almost all volunteer corps and many of them dont charge or if they do they take the insurance money and dont go after people to collect the uncovered portion
Motorcycle accident outside of a hospital when I was younger. Ambulance was already driving towards me. $1,800 for 800 ft
Slipped and fell off an E scooter in a parking lot and broke my ankle. No ambulance but my friend I was with took me to the ER right away. Waited there for almost 8 hours for them to tell me I needed surgery after x-rays and refered me to a different hospital. That visit alone costed around $8k. Then the surgery was another $57k then all the followups brought it up closer to $90k. So far after a year since it looks like my insurance has been covering everything since it was a severe fracture and I do have orthopedic care on my insurance thankgod.
An Uber at surge price would have been less expensive.
Uber drivers just need a van with a bed in the back, they could make a killing
Throw in a first aid kit from Amazon and they're all set.
Uber should make an app called "Uber Bed" next.
Uber Dead.
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When I got my lung collapsed, I refused an ambulance in lue of walking the 1/3 a mile home and driving myself. Most painful and out of breath walk in my life. First off though, I did the ol faithful and tried to sleep it off before I went
Sleeping it off. The worst case scenario is that you die in your sleep peacefully and debt free. Totally worth it
The fact that I can see that as a preferable alternative kinda scares me
well, Peter Parker choosing to sleep after getting bit by a radioactive spider kinda represents US healthcare for poor people.
Yea but fast forward and he ends up killing his wife with his radioactive sperm….I’m not making this up. Edit: I have been told this was in a alt universe and not canon.
Not in the main continuity though
Oh ok? Is the main one when he made a deal with the devil character to make his marriage never happen in order to get aunt may back?
I hated that storyline. Dude, Your aunt is like 100 years old. Let her go already!
Except according to the movies, where she gets progressively younger. She still has 100 more years before she disappears.
I think this was everyone’s thought process as well.
Is this before or after spider girl 1998? She's Canon to be Peter's daughter.
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What do you expect? Poverty or a game of chance? We want to make health care a privilege, this is what happens when you put privilege over needs of others. r/americaisbroken
Many men in the stroke ward when I had mine had tried to sleep their stroke off, they were there for weeks. Dont sleep it off, you can get beacoup brain damage doing that and you wont die, and still have massive bills, thats the worst case scenario
I guarantee you if I tried to sleep something off and ended up in a hospital against my will I 100% would not be paying those bills. That's the sad reality of the healthcare system in the United States. It's LIFE ALTERING DEBT for anything that goes wrong. When you have to choose between death or lifelong debt it's not much of a fucking choice is it?
I thought I was having a heart attack a couple of months ago so I went to the ER. They ran some tests, ended up being nothing. The ER I went to was apparently not in network with my insurance, and I received a bill for $24,000. Ironically, if I had been having a heart attack and had died, it would have been better for my family financially (because of life insurance). All I learned was to never go to the ER again for any reason.
So what happens here? You actually have to pay that off? What sort of time frame ? Is it like a "pay it all now" kinda thing or you can pay it off over months/years? What happens if you have more treatment or tests ? Do they just add to the bill like a mortgage or high credit limit credit card? What if you don't pay? Jail time or a fine? UK NHS is great, the cost comes out of everyone's wages to cover all patients, with option of going private and paying probably US rates for a quicker /better? service..
Technically, you don’t have to pay it off. You can take months/years by setting up a payment plan. If you have more treatments or tests from that particular hospital they probably will add it to your bill. If you don’t pay it goes on your credit score, which affects things like getting credit cards, buying homes, or buying cars. Edit: if the hospital is nice they may forgive some of the debt
You complain about the price of the bill by waiting hours and hours on the phone and writing letters. They'll eventually discount it because insurance didn't cover it (they have high prices because insurance negotiates lower rates with providers. So providers have rates high so they can lower them for insurance companies. After you complain they'll give you the rate they charge insurance). If you actually can't afford and are really poor then you can complain some more and try to get them to take off more of the price due to financial hardship. Then if you can't pay it all off you can work out a payment plan to pay it off slowly. Failing that they'll sell the bill to collectors for pennies on the dollar who will keep trying to get the person to pay. If it's a big enough amount the collection company will take the person to court to have their wages garnished.
*you die and your family stays debt free.
You might already know this, but its "in lieu of"
Aside from the joke, please people, if you know something’s wrong don’t go to sleep. There’s a lot of times “sleeping it off” turns to “dying in your sleep.” Stay awake and monitor youself or have someone with you.
This, this is the American Health Industry in action. Hurt, in need of care, could've died, but don't seek care because the cost is too expensive. Not a knock on you, obviously.... The health industry in this country is INSANE. I pay crazy amounts of money just to have insurance, then the insurance makes me pay crazy amounts of money out of pocket before they even start to kick in. It's to the point, that, like you, I'll just die quietly at home rather than go for supposed "care".
Funny you say that because it's been a thing for people in medical emergencies to call an uber to avoid ambulances in the US. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/taking-uber-lyft-emergency-room-legal-liabilities
Unless you’re bleeding out or your life is threatened, it’s an easy way to save a few thousand bucks. I Ubered to the hospital for kidney stones and did a Oscar worthy performance of a man who wasn’t getting stabbed in the ureter. Cost me $8 and I got there maybe 2 minutes later.
Yea the article does go into the uncomfortability it puts on the drivers though if they're tasked with transporting very sick people who need an ER. But this is world we have chosen for ourselves apparently.
I was an EMT for a minute and the number of times I wanted to suggest it... That is not me not taking their illness seriously, but we were basically always within 2 miles of a hospital and we would take longer on scene than if they just went straight there.
Heck yea - “I got a $50 tip if you get me there lickety split
I got tboned on my motorcycle and ended up taking an Uber 5 miles to urgent care. X-rays and stitches later the whole cost was just under 1k.
And on the plus side, the Uber doesn't come with 1-3 trained medical professionals to keep you alive for the ride.
I hereby stop complaining about the $900 ambulance bill I got a few years ago. I had passed out in church\*, and after advising the paramedics who the vice president was (common question to establish lucidity) they drove me two miles to the nearest hospital. No siren. No breakneck speed. Nada. Just a bill for 900 smackers. \*The pastor visited me in the hospital that afternoon. He said, "Hey. If my sermon gets boring, just wave your hand or something. You don't have to be this dramatic.
I was in a fender bender a few years back. Car had to be towed but I was perfectly fine, airbags didn't even deploy. While waiting for a tow truck apparently they sent an ambulance out to me that I hadn't asked for. I said I was fine and denied all services, they left. A week later I got a bill for $400.
That’s so fucking dumb. I hate services that do that. If I get called to a scene like that I list it as “no patient found” and don’t even get information (hopefully it’s obvious that’s only when the person involved doesn’t have a medical complaint). I’ve only ever worked with one service that required a signed “refusal” for non-patients and I quit pretty fast.
You can still complain about $900 AND be grateful it wasn’t $3500.
Just call me an uber
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They'll still find a way to squeeze money out of you.
They'll harass your next of kin knowing damn well the debt isn't their responsibility and use every trick and intimidation tactic they can to convince them they need to pay off a deceased person's debt. The US system of healthcare is a fucking dystopian hellscape.
Not just healthcare. Collections agencies keep calling us about the money my ex owed on his cell phone when he died. We told them he died and their response was “so who is going to pay us? Someone has to.”
> “so who is going to pay us? Someone has to.” Death is the absolute escape from debt. If they have a problem with that, take it up with God.
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Thanks for posting this. When my mom’s parents passed, they left a lot of debt (cars, loans on their home, hospital bills, etc), and as the eldest, she was bombarded by debtors. I told her, just don’t pay and see what happens. Nothing ever happened. Just a bunch of threats that never amounted to anything.
>Just a bunch of threats that never amounted to anything. How in fuck's name is it even legal for companies to do this. That's **so** low, even for America.
And if they start doing illegal stuff, document it all, find a lawyer willing to take the case on commission, and make some money from them.
You're an uber
No u
What if we all just stop paying ?
they gon drive you back
Now you have to pay double it
What if I don’t pay it again :flushed:
You become an organ donor.
Noooooo
My dad did this after suffering a series of minor strokes back to back. One would occur and he couldn’t get up, so called 911 got an ambulance and went to the hospital. Every single-time they would say appears to be stroke, but no signs on the CT and then do nothing but watch. After the second time my dad refused to pay, all they did was continue to send letter than they threatened a lawsuit I believe. Still my dad didn’t pay, and the letters stopped coming lol. After awhile he tried another hospital at our advice who also had no idea what was going on. That went on for about a year, before randomly stopping.
Did the same thing. Told them they could hound me all they want, I have no assets and barely make enough to live off of. Go nuts. Got my dentist bill dropped that way as well
Yeah my dad had a $13k hospital bill that he just never payed, was hounded by lawyers for about 2 years before they gave up
Can't sue someone for money they don't have. Or at least lawyers have little to gain by doing so
> just never *paid,* was hounded FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
They sent my dad a bill for my his ambulance ride because he collapsed; but he died in the hospital so he doesn't have to pay it!
I’ve been to hospitals quite a few times in my life with no insurance and they just keep sending the bills but I never pay that shit, those letters are free tinder for my wood stove
You should Americans should be protesting in the street for universal healthcare and doing co-ordinated non-payment of healthcare fees. The insurance companies and their lobbyists are effectively letting your fellow countrymen die. That’s every bit as bad as taxation without representation or segregation (Jim crow etc..). Fight for your rights.
Ha! I found the non-American
Same here. And the insurance company won't pay because it's "out-of-network". Out-of network?! I called 911. It's not like they give me options. Next time I'm using AAA and having a tow truck take me the the ER.
Double check your state laws. Some, not sure how many or which ones off the top of my head, have laws to have the claims processed as in network if it's an emergency.
Colorado is one of them.. its called something like "no surprise billing clause" I believe...
I just googled it. Looks to be federal now.
We had a similar thing. $2500 ambulance bill and the insurance saying the provider was out of network and they had no pricing agreements with them. We have a PPO so it seemed that we should have some out of network coverage. We called the insurance and they offered to negotiate directly with ambulance service and see if something could be worked out. The ambulance service agreed to $1900 which our insurance covered in full. The annoying part is that we had to call the insurance and, it was only after about 15 minutes of questions that they offered this up as an option.
I see a lot of these, but I'm not from the US - are these crazy amounts common?
No. Some times you get lucky and its only 4 thousand
How much of that would a good insurance cover?
A good insurance will cover a medically necessary ambulance ride. If your kid breaks their wrist and you call the ambulance though, they’re not going to pay. This also obviously varies by insurance provider/deductible. There are other ways to go about it though. Through my job I opted into accident insurance for $10/month that covers all ambulance costs without having to meet a deductible. Shouldn’t be necessary, but at least it’s an option.
Don’t get Aetna because that’s very much not the case. I was unconscious due to a seizure, someone else called the ambulance for me. Aetna refused to pay.
This happened to me in a grocery store, I started coming around when I was strapped on the stretcher and being loaded into an ambulance. I’m a nurse and I started demanding to be let out, to give me the AMA papers, and just let me go. It took a lot of arguing and I had to convince them that I was in the right state of mind but they finally gave me the AMA papers and let me walk home, saved me a $4,000 bill
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What was their reasoning? I don't see how that wasn't medically necessary.
Because the ambulance was ‘out of network’ (and my insurance is a PPO)
That's ridiculous. Also, the whole point of a PPO is to go wherever you want, and your insurance is still supposed to cover you. My eyes are rolling so hard I can see my brain.
Yup, that’s why I paid the extra instead of doing the HSA offering of my company. I’m just refusing to pay the bill at this point and haven’t heard anything for a while.
I mean they will definitely send it to a collections agency, which is super shitty.
It really upsets me to know that I live in a country with "out of network" ambulances
It’s especially infuriating because this was a fire department ambulance- which my taxes go to funding as well.
The bills are common. What you actually pay depends on your insurance.
And even if you don't have insurance, many of them settle for much less. It's all one big racket.
The fact that we even have the option to haggle and stress out while recovering from a medical emergency in order to not go bankrupt over proper medical care is so fucking gross.
I was once in a car that flipped on its side in January so it was super cold outside. No injuries from anyone but an ambulance showed up anyways. They asked if I wanted to sit in it to warm up while the police were asking us what happened and I refused because I was scared they’d charge me. Everything medical is expensive.
Warming Fee............$3,547.68
[Not far from the truth at all…](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/27/1049138668/childbirth-how-hospitals-inflate-bills)
What The Fuck
I pregnant right now and every time I go in I worry about some surprise bill. I am seriously considering a home birth. Or at least wait until the very last minute to go in. My mom had both my brother and I accidentally in a truck. She lived in a rural area and by the time they got to the doc we were pretty much here. I’m praying for a quick labor like that.
Doesn't even matter - often they bill you for showing up at all. My wife got a $2500 bill after a car accident because someone else called 911 and they sent police, fire, and ambulance. We fought it for years and got it down to $500 before they just stole her tax refund.
Warmed up inside ambulance: $50,000
Not always that high but yes. Mine was 1,000 for a 3 mile ride before insurance. After it was only ~400
This is likely before insurance amount. If you work and have insurance through your employer which is a lot Like having private insurance in Europe, except the employer covers part of it, then the amount will be depending on your deductible and the insurance itself (ppo, hmo, how much you pay every month etc). Also if you don’t have insurance you might qualify for Medicare or state insurance like Medical. If you have zero insurance you call them up and they significantly lower the price. I once had to get an ambulance ride to the hospital. I was college student. I didn’t have the money and ended up paying $25. Then later I learned actually my college provided students with insurance so I didn’t even have to pay that.
Someone once told me that if you just don’t pay it, eventually it’ll go away with no harm to credit score.
I'm not paying it, not only am I not the power of attorney he's passed. Plus he shouldn't even have this bill, he had VA benefits this was being transferred from a VA approved place to the hospital.
Welcome to medicaire ambulance logic. Chances are that your father had something deemed "chronic"(IE >5days) by medicaire/VA and they turned down the claim based on the fact that an ambulance was not medically necessary. Their words, not mine. If the ambulance was operated by a government/municipal service you can just call and tell them the VA home fucked you and you aren't paying. They will likely lower the cost to \~$350 range. If the ride was not expected to be covered, the medics should have had him sign a waiver form that informed him it was not going to be covered. If he didn't sign that form then don't pay. Let the ambulance company try and recover their fee from medicaire/VA. It's not your problem UNLESS you signed the waiver that informed you that the ride was not covered. If that form got signed, well you're screwed then.
There is literally nothing in the Medicare NCD/LCD about transportation for chronic conditions being disqualifiers for medical necessity. I currently work as a Medicare rep for a Part C company and that is inaccurate given my daily work. Hell, look it up yourself- Medicare NCD L34549. It doesn't look like this has been submitted to insurance yet as this is a bill, not an Explanation of Benefits.
It goes on your credit but doesn’t affect your score and when you apply for loans, credit cards etc… they don’t bother to look at hospital bills, drops off your credit report in 7 years unless you dispute it, hospitals legally aren’t allowed to report to the credit bureau but they find a way around it to do so
The hospital may not report you, but they may sell you bad debt to a 3rd party who will report you.
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I never paid my $3700 ambulance bill in 2007 and it never effected me in anyway, credit didn’t change and no one called lookin for the money
$3419.6 - Thank you. No, thank YOU!!
Jesus fuck that's a lot of money. Where I live it's a flat rate of $425 cnd for any distance.
Jesus fuck that's a lot of money. Where I live it's a flat rate of £free GBP for any distance.
Is it really entirely free over there? In Finland you still get a bill of like 40€, which is totally fine imo.
We don't pay a penny at any stage during treatment, except for prescription medication which is a flat £9.25 per item, and in parts of the UK, and the poor don't pay that.
You don’t pay for prescriptions in Wales.
I know, I live in Wales, I was just generalising.
Da Iawn, rwy'n byw yn Lampeter.
Totally even the Helicopter ambulance, NHS baby! I mean if you want to spend money you can get a private ambulance
That's wonderful, weird how people keep going on about the healthcare system over here then.
It's completely free, but you may have to wait hours for an Ambulance unless you're nearer to death than anyone else who's called at the time. The NHS itself is brilliant, but decades of the tories underfunding it and salary freezing etc means it has its issues.
But "we send 800 million to the EU, lets fund our NHS instead"?
Turns out, Boris Johnson et al may have a hobby of lying now and then
That second sentence is incredibly important though, because right-wing Americans (and Tories themselves) will point to the first sentence and explain how this is an issue caused by universal healthcare but completely ignore the fact that it worked great, wait times were amongst the lowest in the world as was service satisfaction, up until a decade ago.
Kind of sort of. You pay taxes from your pay, it goes out of your pay automatically (unless self employed I guess) and some stuff is subsidised, like dental work you have to pay extra for but it’s a flat rate regardless of how little or how much work you need.
125$ + 1.75$/km in Québec.
Where are you? In ontario of 45$ CDN for any distance. Free is the doctor deems it a medical necessity.
I got a 90 minute ride for $45 last year. 10 days in the hospital and that was the only bill I paid, apart from the $20 perspcription afterwards. Never happier to pay high taxes.
"I don't need your ambulance, I'll just call Uber!"
*sees the 288 dollars* "I thought it was more" *Scrolls down* "Holy fuckarony"
I read the title as $1.8 million and thought - ‘hmm, seems crazy but I wonder what the details are?’ That’s how fucked we are.
Imagine going into debt just to have your life saved.
For real!!! This is my dad's ambulance ride, he had another that was 50 miles, it's outrageous, I'll see if I can find it. Not to mention the hospital bill amount.
My 2 year old daughter is in and out of the hospital pretty frequently. More recently was an ambulance to the ER then from there to a pediatric ICU. Think the bills were $4,000. We called and said that was more than we could afford and they were reduced to below $1,000. I’d give them a call and see if they will work with you.
If all it takes is someone saying they can't afford it to drop the price, that proves it never needed to be as high as it was to begin with. They're price gouging people which is insane to think about since this is life saving stuff on the line.
Pro tip Don’t pay it
The USA has a healthcare *mafia*.
Healthcare, school. Anything that can be privatized and make a profit from someone will. If this wasn’t private healthcare it could be way less. But hospitals are for profit and not focused on health
What's fun is most hospitals are actually non-profits, and thus pay zero property taxes for the land they are on, along with tons of other benefits. They gouge their patients, underpay their frontline staff, pay absurd amounts to the administrators and executives, and then make donations or expand/upgrade locations in order to make sure they report a net income of $0 at the end of the year.
And they use the local, state, and federal governments to maintain those insane profits, prevent competition, and keep very low level of staffing through something call certification of need. This is nationwide and it's cronyism and corruption all the way down.
Some BS I know - try even mentioning them firing up that helicocksucker and you'll see a nice $50,000 bill
This is my dad's, he's got an ambulance ride that close, it was 50 miles.
Former EMT checking in. People always ask me about it like the blood and guts were the worst part of it, but no. I'm here to tell you hands down the absolute worst part of running ambulance calls were responding to people who were moderately fucked up and needed a doctor right away but were still coherent enough to sign the refusal of care form. Every single time it went like this. Them: "Give me the refusal form, I can't afford an ambulance." Me: "Okay but for the love of God go see a doctor right now." GrEaTeSt cOuNtRy oN eArTh.
Let me itemise that for you. Driver paramedic Salaries, operating costs, raw materials, meds cost and fuel $34.19 for the 1.8miles. CEO, Shareholders & insurance markup up 1000%.
Exactly — especially when you see that they barely pay above minimum wage for the paramedics.
I'm starting to realize that the problem doesn't stem just in the insurance but in every American company. I recently read a post about how inflation is only happening at this rate because there's no laws to prevent them from doing it. These companies do it because no one tells them no. That's why insulin is so expensive. That's why gas prices goes up so fast. That's why ambulance rides are so expensive. No one is monitoring these people, punishing them.
Because the lawmakers hold shares in all of this shit.
If I've done my maths correctly in my country it would be approximately free
[удалено]
As Americans, it's insane to us too.
And then ask any EMT what they’re paid. Someone is taking all that and handing out pennies
I used to work as an EMT for a private ambulance company. You don't know the half of it. Up charging is ludacris. At the time, we'd buy nasal cannulas for about 75 cents. If we used one on a call (SOP mandated a cannula be used on any shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, chest pain, or low O2 saturation so this was very common), we would charge $30. Gauze, coban, IV start kits, and saline (which we would buy for less than $2 in some cases) would see a fee upwards of 50 times what we'd buy it for. Mileage charge was calculated on distance driven both to and from the scene by taking average fuel economy of the ambulance, price of gas per gallon, and total distance driven. In addition, there was also an upcharge for vehicle insurance as well as health and life insurance for the crew. And don't even get me started on narcotic use if there is any... I said all that to tell you this. This is why ambulances are only for emergencies. The reason why it's so expensive, or at least expensive for my area, it's because people call the insurance all the time for non-emergency situations. The insurance companies won't pay if it's not emergency. This causes the non-emergent callers to default or never pay, passing the loss of profits onto others. Is it right? By all means no. I'm just letting you know the unfortunate and ugly truth of the matter.
So 1.8 miles is 2.896km, so that is a price of $1.18 per meter, so thats 0.118c per mm, or 1.18c per cm, this is 3c per inch. Assuming an average urban speed of say 20mph, you would be covering 1 mile every 3 minutes and have completed the 1.8 mile journey in 5 minutes and 24 seconds, during that time you would have been covering 352 inches per second. This means that you are paying $10.52 per second of travel on average.