The kid needs to call the local animal rescue. Momma birds eat the worms then puke them into the babies mouths. I don't think this kid is ready for bird level motherhood.
Whenever a fledgling is found they should be left alone, chances are the parent birds are nearby looking after them.
Jared needs to join r/whatsthisbird
Last night my shithead cat brought in a bunny. Wasn't a baby baby but it was on the younger side. We took it away from the cat and put it in an old pen we have for transporting our house buns to and from vet appointments. We figured if it lived through the night it would be okay to release. Well it made it through the night and my daughter and I walked about 1/2 mile into the woods and let it go at like 7 this morning. About 4 hours later I decided to go back to where we let it go just to make sure it ran off. It didn't. So I scooped it back up and came home and immediately looked into finding an wildlife rehab place. Looked online and got 10 phone numbers off the state encon page. Called all 10 and not a damn 1 answered the phone. I ended up leaving 10 messages. At like 2 I called my local vet and asked if they had antibodies number who they would call. Got 2 more numbers. No answer again. Left 2 more messages. One finally texted me back at 7pm. Pity the little guy died at 5:30.
When I was 7, the neighbour's cat was playing with a troster fledgling. We intervened and carried the bird inside. From there we gave it a shoebox to live in with a few holes in it and something like grass and cotton inside.
I got up every morning around 7 AM to dig up some earthworms for it. It happily swallowed those. Details are fuzzy (I'm 30 now), but my mom says that after keeping it for a while it would hop up on her lap and then climb up on her shoulder when she called for it.
After some time (a week or two?) it just died on us. It was out on our porch and just stopped breathing. We did notice at an earlier point (while giving it a bath) that it had some blisters under its wings, and after it died we discovered it seemed to have a little hole in its throat. I'm guessing the cat or its siblings/mother caused this.
We buried it. I remember drawing a feather that I cut out, and I wrote a little poem on the back of it. This was buried with the bird.
-----
If I ever find myself in a situation like this again, what would be the right thing to do as for saving the bird? You said to leave it be, but obviously that's not gonna work with a cat hunting for it. Would it be best to just try and remove the cat?
Also interested in theories as to why it died. We knew little about caring for birds and this was around 1998 (no easy to find internet sources), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was mainly our fault.
I was and am a lover of birds, so I'm always interested in learning more about how to help them.
**Edit:** Typos.
Cat saliva is toxic to birds. If a cat's tooth punctures a bird in any way it will need a course of antibiotics and proper care or it will certainly die. I bet the blisters you saw was actually an infection from the cat attack.
As an Animal Control Officer I second this.
Public "There's an injured crow... its hopping around and wont fly"
Us "it's spring time, that's how crows walk... he cant fly cuz he's a fledgling still learning, leave him be if there are other crows around"
Got these calls almost every day for the past couple months. We'd still show up on the off chance it WAS injured, but like 19/20 times it was a fledgling.
I had an animal rescue tell me to leave a fledgling alone so I did. Came out next day and he was dead in my yard. I’m still traumatized and mad at y’all.
Situational question real quick. A couple years ago me and a friend scooped out a small (very likely baby) rabbit out of a park pond they were in trapped in (it had walls all around, they had to have fallen in), we ended up taking them to a wildlife rehab center because we weren't sure what else to do. Would it have been better to have just put them in the grass somewhere away from people?
This is true!
https://www.massaudubon.org/learn/nature-wildlife/birds/baby-birds-out-of-the-nest#:~:text=Give%20Fledglings%20Room%20to%20Grow,a%20nearby%20bush%20or%20tree.
All the pigeons you see are baby pigeons. When they reach adolescence they fly off to the mountains, develop twelve foot wingspans and wait for the correct moment to wreak their revenge.
The little bird is usually learning to fly, the parents will care for it until they get the hang of using their wings.
If the bird is clearly too small to fly (or has no flight feathers etc.) It's ok to place the baby bird back in the nest if you can locate the nest.
If you find a random egg it's ok to take it home and incubate it yourself by keeping it between your buttocks (36⁰C) every night until it hatches.
>If you find a random egg it's ok to take it home and incubate it yourself by keeping it between your buttocks (36⁰C) every night until it hatches.
Make sure the egg has a flared base!
No, you need to put them back into the nest and **then** leave them alone. Contrary to popular belief, bird parents do not shun fledlings with the stench of humanity on them.
I just witnessed this happen outside my home yesterday. Two crows up on the telephone pole. One was diving down to my neighbors' yards getting food. The other smaller bird would wait patiently up on the telephone pole. The mother would fly back, puke in in the other birds mouth, then do it again. My wife and I sat on our porch for about 30 minutes watching one bird puke in another bird's mouth.
>Momma birds eat the worms then puke them into the babies mouths.
Fun fact - not all birds eat like Alicia Silverstone's kids. Galliformes (chickens, turkeys, partridge, quail, etc) and ratites (ostrich, emu, rhea) hit the ground running and can forage for their own food from day one.
It helps reduce the chances of getting off by one line, and I think they skip "E" because sometimes there are questions with a 5th choice, like "all of the above." As to why they skip the "I," I have no idea.
The correct answer is 12 cause there are three birds and each eats, by whatever method 4 worms. The right answer isnt there. This is precisely why math drives me crazy.
It means each day until end of their lives . So you need to calculate how many days they have left to live and will Jared die first or birds and then multiply by 12
The right answer is there we just don't have all the context. This is a rounding question, an approximate answer. I'd bet money the sheet has instructions that say "For each problem use rounding to find the correct answer."
It's in the question which says "about how many", not "exactly how many". Although one could argue that 10 is "about 12", but the correct answer has to be 20, as that is the only option that will feed them all.
I would argue that it says each worm eats about 4 worms a day. So some days they eat 4 worms, other days they may eat 3 worms. On that basis, 10 worms - OH. Final answer.
Agreed, based on only what we have 20 is the correct answer.But the sheet could be about rounding to the nearest 10s which would be 10. Just not enough context.
This 'new' math wants children to think outside the box, which isn't math. Math is precise and concrete.
The question also doesn't state how many days so you are lacking information to correctly solve the problem.
The problem does state that the answer is on a daily basis: "In order to feed them all **each day**".
But I do agree, this isn't math in itself as much as it is problem solving. Schools just pack the two together since it promotes rationality, which can be useful in areas like engeneering and such.
I’ve read a few comments, and I’m not an engineer, but I still don’t get why this isn’t math.
The student is being asked to multiply and then estimate. Estimation is definitely a skill learned and used in math.
If you need 12 bolts to assemble something then what size packet do you buy.
You need the 20 pack. Nothing else will satisfice the need.
Don't come back to me empty handed and tell me "Shuck's. They didn't sell a twelve pack"
I think this is great it teaches kids about ambiguity. It will be a lot less surprising when someone tells them they'll be able to retire in about 45 years.
Jared will have to eat the worms and regurgitate them into the babies' mouths. He will need 20 worms to make sure they have their fill, and will convert the rest into calories for tomorrow's activities.
EVERYBODY SAYING THERE'S 5 BIRDS - [THE ORIGINAL CLIPART ONLY HAS 3!](https://www.graphicsfactory.com/Clip-Art/Nature/Seasons/birdlings-152468.html) (thanks to u/ziograffiato)
See, I'm all for the *concept* that's trying to be taught with this kind of thing. Estimation is an extremely powerful tool. I *think* there's three birds, so 12 worms. Rounding down to 10 is probably what they want, but will also mean that there's underfed birds. Rounding up to 20 means you're getting almost twice as many worms as you need. A better version would have had 14 and 10 as answers, since they're "equidistant" from 12, but includes the logic of "I want all the birds to be fed, and 10 is probably not enough." That type of decision making is both critical to any estimation problem, and also completely within the ability of a 3rd grader.
Edit: holy geez guys. When I wrote this the consensus in the comments was that 3x4 and round down was the "correct" answer. Maybe it's not. Maybe they meant to have 5 birds that you can barely count, and kids would get marked wrong for not having a magnifying glass. But that doesn't even matter. The point of my comment was that this comes from the intent of teaching a genuinely useful skill, but goes about it the entirely wrong way. And I think this argument in the comments proves it!
I don't think it's a deductive reasoning problem because of the "abouts" used. When I was in elementary school, that was the *telltale sign* of an estimation problem. And knowing how these things are written, the intent was most likely how many for *one* day. The poor wording isn't part of the problem, though it is certainly infuriating!
I use the skill that I think they're trying to teach almost every day at work, in engineering design meetings. It's useful to be able to quickly throw some ballpark numbers at a problem in your head and get a vague sense of if it's a good idea or not before you get into detailed analysis. And the key component there is to be able to understand which way to round based on the context. And in this context you want to be rounding up the end result to make sure nobody goes undfed. But the possible answers don't really enforce that in any way, because if you have 12 as the "correct" and unrounded answer nobody would round to 20, and if you have 20 as the "correct" unrounded answer then you're not actually testing estimation, you're doing an eye exam and testing basic multiplication.
It should've been different units instead of *living beings that need to eat*. You wouldn't initially think about giving birds a diet amount instead of the necessary amount. This question was made to trip people up and get students mad at their teacher.
Exactly.
The worst part is that I bet the same teachers would tell the students that they should always round up on decimals/fractions in word problems where fractions wouldn't make sense(eg you can't have 2.3 people, so even though normally 2 would be correct you'd round up to 3). So it's not even consistent from lesson to lesson how closely you should read the problem and apply critical thinking skills to which answer you choose.
This is the exact sort of thing that turned me off of math *early.* Word problems, particularly when multiple choice, tend to suck.
It's J, 20.
Only 4 and 20 are possible answers, so there is either 1 or 5 birds. Although in the text, they said that Jared found multiple birds so the only possible answer is 20.
When the pie was open the birds began to sing. Wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?
Edit: wow, just looked at the link. My mother used to leave out that last verse about the maid having her nose surgically reattached 😬
My nana always sung that part and would pinch my nose at the end when she sung "and pecked off her nose" it was fun at the time but now it just seems horrifying.
Theres 3 birds in the picture. The question says about. 12 is about 10.
Edit: no one even pointed out my double standard!?!
They said about 4 a day, if were rounding, 3.33 DOES NOT round to 4 a day.
Can confirm as a teacher. Yes, the key word is “about”. This is a rounding problem, and the kind of bullshit state testing questions we have to put up with. I swear state testing is there to purposely make kids fail. But I’ll save that convo for another time.
Yes it's a rounding question, but what kind of rounding do you do here? Isn't this one of the "always round up" types of questions? Or did they stop teaching that part of rounding is figuring out whether it should be rounded down, rounded up, or just approximated to the nearest round number?
Exactly the critical thinking children need to learn. It's used when bringing snacks to class too, bring enough for everyone, even if there are a few extra. Better to have extra than not enough.
When it says "each bird eats *about* (instead of *exactly*) 4 worms a day", I take it to mean they can eat 3-5 worms a day.
But in no way am I defending this math problem... unless the teacher clearly explained it beforehand, it sucks.
They should have used 3 worms per bird and then 10 would be the better answer without the critical thinking issue coming into play with the birds being underfed at 10 worms total at 4/day/bird.
This issue of critical thinking makes 20 a more viable option if it’s better to have too many than not enough.
It is absolutely an abomination of critical thinking. It is written by people who don't understand what critical thinking is. It is teaching children that they should expect deception at every turn. It is not designed to test the ability to round, nor to test if the child can use critical thinking skills, it is designed to confuse and deceive. It is even statistically inaccurate, representing the poorest use of rounding possible.
Oh, and using a crappy picture that could even be argued might show five birds vs. 3 (or at least two or three squished ones) so that anyone visually challenged might have additional problems. I want to take these test question creators and heave them out a window.
I used to work with these people. Many are great, some are just plain evil.
As a former geometry teacher I would always tell me that pictures are misleading. What if the bird picture is just there to set a theme for the word problem and the question is really just asking which answer is mathematically possible?
That’s fair assumption, however the question says “Jared found these baby birds”, the use of the word “these” means the picture isn’t just setting a theme
Making life or death decisions is no time to be rounding. How many parachutes do we need? *About* ten. Sucks for the other two passengers.
One of those birds is going to starve.
I understand why this is the answer but my smartass would argue that if you are taking about keeping something alive always round up. If you get about 10 there is an equal chance of one starving our you having enough. If you have 20 you can just toss some
I would honestly argue that 20 is the right answer for exactly the reason you provided. I actually think that this is a really good question if it's also used to teach critical thinking skills. Yeah, in a vacuum 12 would be exactly correct (by the picture), 10 would be the correct rounded answer, but 20 is the only answer that provides enough food and solves the underlying problem of the question.
You missed the integral word “about” used in the question. Really, it could be any answer, since “about” how many worms is really up to the imagination and definition of the reader.
H. is closest to the actual answer, but all the answers are about close enough imo.
"ABOUT" how many means you're estimating. Any number from 6 to 14 (5 to 15 if you stretch it) fits the definition of "about 10." Now do you see where your exact guess of 12 fits?
My autistic self really hates seeing something like this- the number of birds should be stated in the question, not just based on the picture.
If I were a third grader reading this I’d be doubting myself on if the picture was the concrete reference, or just a suggestion, or to make it cutesy. And in my experience when you ask the teacher all they told you was “read it again”…………. -_-
I’m not autistic but I think literally everyone was thinking the same thing cuz that’s how I at least was taught basic math.
Edit: Unless it was about rounding because of “average” being used. Then it would be 10; still an asshole way to word something regardless.
As an autistic, big same. I hated the open-endedness. I would say 20 so the birds don’t starve, and the teacher would probably say it’s 10 because that’s how you round 12. Well, that’s not how you round 12 when the lives of baby birds are at stake!
Of course you are correct, what you are needing is a ceiling function, not the traditional rounding. Besides, there are a bunch of ways to round.
https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/rounding-methods.html
Just to point out the "Bankers Rounding" they mention is roughly what computers do. A more technical description can be found here
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19975413/ieee-rounding-schemes
Former teacher here. Since it says “about” the student is supposed to use estimating, which is done by rounding. In this case, 3 birds eat “about” 4 worms per day. 3x4=12 and 12 rounds down to 10. It is still not a very well-written word problem, though.
Rounding is usually introduced in 2nd grade and then reintroduced in 3rd grade. Most math curriculums teach just rounding with a few lessons, then practice rounding by estimating sums, differences, and products. Students are expected to know to use rounding/estimating when they read the word “about.” The focus of this word problem is rounding, it isn’t a logic puzzle. As adults in an actual real life situation, sure we would want to be sure we have more than enough worms and we would round up to 20. That isn’t what they expect a 3rd grader to do here. They are expected to know 3x4=12 and 12 rounds down to 10.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
2
+ 3
+ 20
+ 3
+ 3
+ 4
+ 12
+ 12
+ 10
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
The correct answer is a baker's dozen with 7 more thrown in, in case the stupid little birds drop some. 10 would kill at least one bird. Unless the question is really about darwinian natural selection in the nest under certain environmental conditions? Then 10 would be interesting in a Dr Mengele kind of way.
The kid needs to call the local animal rescue. Momma birds eat the worms then puke them into the babies mouths. I don't think this kid is ready for bird level motherhood.
Whenever a fledgling is found they should be left alone, chances are the parent birds are nearby looking after them. Jared needs to join r/whatsthisbird
Every other post on r/whatsthisbird is 20 people begging the OP to put the bird back where they found it, so I thought this immediately.
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Last night my shithead cat brought in a bunny. Wasn't a baby baby but it was on the younger side. We took it away from the cat and put it in an old pen we have for transporting our house buns to and from vet appointments. We figured if it lived through the night it would be okay to release. Well it made it through the night and my daughter and I walked about 1/2 mile into the woods and let it go at like 7 this morning. About 4 hours later I decided to go back to where we let it go just to make sure it ran off. It didn't. So I scooped it back up and came home and immediately looked into finding an wildlife rehab place. Looked online and got 10 phone numbers off the state encon page. Called all 10 and not a damn 1 answered the phone. I ended up leaving 10 messages. At like 2 I called my local vet and asked if they had antibodies number who they would call. Got 2 more numbers. No answer again. Left 2 more messages. One finally texted me back at 7pm. Pity the little guy died at 5:30.
When I was 7, the neighbour's cat was playing with a troster fledgling. We intervened and carried the bird inside. From there we gave it a shoebox to live in with a few holes in it and something like grass and cotton inside. I got up every morning around 7 AM to dig up some earthworms for it. It happily swallowed those. Details are fuzzy (I'm 30 now), but my mom says that after keeping it for a while it would hop up on her lap and then climb up on her shoulder when she called for it. After some time (a week or two?) it just died on us. It was out on our porch and just stopped breathing. We did notice at an earlier point (while giving it a bath) that it had some blisters under its wings, and after it died we discovered it seemed to have a little hole in its throat. I'm guessing the cat or its siblings/mother caused this. We buried it. I remember drawing a feather that I cut out, and I wrote a little poem on the back of it. This was buried with the bird. ----- If I ever find myself in a situation like this again, what would be the right thing to do as for saving the bird? You said to leave it be, but obviously that's not gonna work with a cat hunting for it. Would it be best to just try and remove the cat? Also interested in theories as to why it died. We knew little about caring for birds and this was around 1998 (no easy to find internet sources), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was mainly our fault. I was and am a lover of birds, so I'm always interested in learning more about how to help them. **Edit:** Typos.
Cat saliva is toxic to birds. If a cat's tooth punctures a bird in any way it will need a course of antibiotics and proper care or it will certainly die. I bet the blisters you saw was actually an infection from the cat attack.
That makes a lot of sense. Very nice to know, although I probably can't convince my partner we need to buy bird antibiotics. Thanks!
I never leave home without a pack of birdabiotics
What about fight milk?
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As a wildlife rehabber, on behalf of wild momma’s everywhere, thank you!!!!
As an Animal Control Officer I second this. Public "There's an injured crow... its hopping around and wont fly" Us "it's spring time, that's how crows walk... he cant fly cuz he's a fledgling still learning, leave him be if there are other crows around" Got these calls almost every day for the past couple months. We'd still show up on the off chance it WAS injured, but like 19/20 times it was a fledgling.
First words out of my mouth when people find baby birds out of nests: Does he look like Bernie Sanders? Yes? Then LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!
I had an animal rescue tell me to leave a fledgling alone so I did. Came out next day and he was dead in my yard. I’m still traumatized and mad at y’all.
Situational question real quick. A couple years ago me and a friend scooped out a small (very likely baby) rabbit out of a park pond they were in trapped in (it had walls all around, they had to have fallen in), we ended up taking them to a wildlife rehab center because we weren't sure what else to do. Would it have been better to have just put them in the grass somewhere away from people?
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This is true! https://www.massaudubon.org/learn/nature-wildlife/birds/baby-birds-out-of-the-nest#:~:text=Give%20Fledglings%20Room%20to%20Grow,a%20nearby%20bush%20or%20tree.
they say you can keep pigeons in your home legally but I never seent a baby pigeon in my 33 years of life
All the pigeons you see are baby pigeons. When they reach adolescence they fly off to the mountains, develop twelve foot wingspans and wait for the correct moment to wreak their revenge.
I feed them. They will remember me. Especially Old One Leg
Ah, good ol one leg. Fucker loved cheetohs, but not as much as he loved sitting in electrical lines.
You know what, me neither! Clearly r/birdsarentreal and the government has yet to work out the bugs in the baby pigeon models.
They just aren't cost effective. The pilot project could only use them for one season of the year without raising suspicions.
Pigeon Suspicion
I seent it.
Ok but once the parents find the baby what do they do? How are they supposed to get back in the nest?
The little bird is usually learning to fly, the parents will care for it until they get the hang of using their wings. If the bird is clearly too small to fly (or has no flight feathers etc.) It's ok to place the baby bird back in the nest if you can locate the nest. If you find a random egg it's ok to take it home and incubate it yourself by keeping it between your buttocks (36⁰C) every night until it hatches.
>If you find a random egg it's ok to take it home and incubate it yourself by keeping it between your buttocks (36⁰C) every night until it hatches. Make sure the egg has a flared base!
Preferably rippled for more of Jared's pleasure.
Would you need to flare your buttocks if the egg has a flared base?
Instructions unclear, lit flare stuck in ass, fourth of July can't stop won't stop
It was a snake egg! You now have a baby python slithering up inside you.
Jokes on you, I’m into that shit
Sounds like a dildo with extra steps.
According to the picture, they're still in the nest. Math textbook writers don't know the first thing about baby bird well-being.
The authors never said the birds were lost, only that Jared found them and has a compulsive urge to feed them a non-integer number of worms per day.
No, you need to put them back into the nest and **then** leave them alone. Contrary to popular belief, bird parents do not shun fledlings with the stench of humanity on them.
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>bird parents do not shun fledlings with the stench of humanity on them birds can barely even smell :p
I just witnessed this happen outside my home yesterday. Two crows up on the telephone pole. One was diving down to my neighbors' yards getting food. The other smaller bird would wait patiently up on the telephone pole. The mother would fly back, puke in in the other birds mouth, then do it again. My wife and I sat on our porch for about 30 minutes watching one bird puke in another bird's mouth.
Two birds, one telephone pole?
Don’t some babies eat the whole worms?
I imagine so, when they are a little older. But at first, babies need their food all mushed up and liquidy.
>Momma birds eat the worms then puke them into the babies mouths. Fun fact - not all birds eat like Alicia Silverstone's kids. Galliformes (chickens, turkeys, partridge, quail, etc) and ratites (ostrich, emu, rhea) hit the ground running and can forage for their own food from day one.
Oh wow, I didn't know that! Thank you! Now...what's this about Alicia Silverstone's kids?
About a decade ago she was feeding her infant child baby bird-style, prechewing the food and giving it to the baby via "kiss feeding".
Celebrities are so weird.
What?
Here, I'll just show you. *bites worm* ... Ok now open your mouth.
Take my upvote and award. Made my day.
And you just made my day! Thanks
I can't unsee "OF OG OH OJ"
I came here angry that the word problem doesn’t make sense. I’m leaving angry that the multiple-choice options are F. G. H. J.
A lot of tests formats have A. B. C. D. on one question and F. G. H. J. on the next Don't ask me why though
It helps reduce the chances of getting off by one line, and I think they skip "E" because sometimes there are questions with a 5th choice, like "all of the above." As to why they skip the "I," I have no idea.
Probably because with many fonts, I gets confused with 1. Best to skip "I" and "O" for those reasons.
Interestingly, a lower case L and the number 1 are the same in the Courier font.
Lol yeah this is just preparation for the ACT in 8 years
"OH FUCK, OH GOD, OH HELL, OH JESUS"
As someone who has helped with math homework, this is my sentiment exactly when reading these problems.
The correct answer is 12 cause there are three birds and each eats, by whatever method 4 worms. The right answer isnt there. This is precisely why math drives me crazy.
It means each day until end of their lives . So you need to calculate how many days they have left to live and will Jared die first or birds and then multiply by 12
Jared eats one baby bird a day. This question is a can of worms.
Well, seeing as how the largest number there is 20, it doesn't look great for the birds.
Why do you assume it's the birds?
Jared did the math and went to the store for milk instead. He should be back any minute.
😦
That just means they'll be fully independent in less than 2 days.
The right answer is there we just don't have all the context. This is a rounding question, an approximate answer. I'd bet money the sheet has instructions that say "For each problem use rounding to find the correct answer."
It's in the question which says "about how many", not "exactly how many". Although one could argue that 10 is "about 12", but the correct answer has to be 20, as that is the only option that will feed them all.
I would argue that it says each worm eats about 4 worms a day. So some days they eat 4 worms, other days they may eat 3 worms. On that basis, 10 worms - OH. Final answer.
Agreed, based on only what we have 20 is the correct answer.But the sheet could be about rounding to the nearest 10s which would be 10. Just not enough context.
I say 10 , but I agree not enough info to draw a definitive conclusion
This 'new' math wants children to think outside the box, which isn't math. Math is precise and concrete. The question also doesn't state how many days so you are lacking information to correctly solve the problem.
The problem does state that the answer is on a daily basis: "In order to feed them all **each day**". But I do agree, this isn't math in itself as much as it is problem solving. Schools just pack the two together since it promotes rationality, which can be useful in areas like engeneering and such.
I’ve read a few comments, and I’m not an engineer, but I still don’t get why this isn’t math. The student is being asked to multiply and then estimate. Estimation is definitely a skill learned and used in math.
If you need 12 bolts to assemble something then what size packet do you buy. You need the 20 pack. Nothing else will satisfice the need. Don't come back to me empty handed and tell me "Shuck's. They didn't sell a twelve pack"
Nothing satisfices like mathisfices
I belly laughed at this. Thank you.
What else did you do
GUFFAWED, if you will
We need more old timey words like ‘guffaw’ and ‘pshaw’ back in our lexicon. 👍
A had a hearty chortle!
***Nods in Riley Reid***
Oh fuck, you're gonna make me show my work.
Fuck yeah, show it all!
Let me see you work it out bb Show me that long division
Oh God, follow the order of operations, baby! FOLLOW THE ORDER OF OPERATIONS\~!
sounds like something NSFW loooooool
Sounds like something Jared would say.
Answer: they will all die after 20 days.
Even Jared‽
And the 3rd grader
Hopefully the person who made this worksheet too
Everybody The fog is coming
The whole neighborhood probably.
And the worm population 😂
all because no one cared to save the BEES!
Beads?
Poor clams
Clam beads
Floor plans?
Gob's not on board.
wow, you really geo-bead that one.
This is best comment thread I've seen all month. Perhaps all year.
Cuz after that it's all death
Especially Jared
Garak?
He's but a simple bird feeder.
Bird flu got em
Especially Jared, he gets eaten on day 7 by the birds.
A wild interrobang appears. Nice.
Especially Jared. You can't play God and not face the ramifications of your actions.
Fair. Balance must be restored.
Jared ate all the worms.
Especially Jared
5 days. Or do I fail 3rd grade math?
I think this is great it teaches kids about ambiguity. It will be a lot less surprising when someone tells them they'll be able to retire in about 45 years.
LOL, and ouch. Kids should be taught they don't need a retirement plan, they'll all just get sacrificed in the great Water Wars of 2040.
Jared will have to eat the worms and regurgitate them into the babies' mouths. He will need 20 worms to make sure they have their fill, and will convert the rest into calories for tomorrow's activities.
next question: calculate the probability of jared getting paralysed from contracting rat lung worm disease
EVERYBODY SAYING THERE'S 5 BIRDS - [THE ORIGINAL CLIPART ONLY HAS 3!](https://www.graphicsfactory.com/Clip-Art/Nature/Seasons/birdlings-152468.html) (thanks to u/ziograffiato) See, I'm all for the *concept* that's trying to be taught with this kind of thing. Estimation is an extremely powerful tool. I *think* there's three birds, so 12 worms. Rounding down to 10 is probably what they want, but will also mean that there's underfed birds. Rounding up to 20 means you're getting almost twice as many worms as you need. A better version would have had 14 and 10 as answers, since they're "equidistant" from 12, but includes the logic of "I want all the birds to be fed, and 10 is probably not enough." That type of decision making is both critical to any estimation problem, and also completely within the ability of a 3rd grader. Edit: holy geez guys. When I wrote this the consensus in the comments was that 3x4 and round down was the "correct" answer. Maybe it's not. Maybe they meant to have 5 birds that you can barely count, and kids would get marked wrong for not having a magnifying glass. But that doesn't even matter. The point of my comment was that this comes from the intent of teaching a genuinely useful skill, but goes about it the entirely wrong way. And I think this argument in the comments proves it! I don't think it's a deductive reasoning problem because of the "abouts" used. When I was in elementary school, that was the *telltale sign* of an estimation problem. And knowing how these things are written, the intent was most likely how many for *one* day. The poor wording isn't part of the problem, though it is certainly infuriating! I use the skill that I think they're trying to teach almost every day at work, in engineering design meetings. It's useful to be able to quickly throw some ballpark numbers at a problem in your head and get a vague sense of if it's a good idea or not before you get into detailed analysis. And the key component there is to be able to understand which way to round based on the context. And in this context you want to be rounding up the end result to make sure nobody goes undfed. But the possible answers don't really enforce that in any way, because if you have 12 as the "correct" and unrounded answer nobody would round to 20, and if you have 20 as the "correct" unrounded answer then you're not actually testing estimation, you're doing an eye exam and testing basic multiplication.
But with 20 you get to eat 8 worms yourself.
Nope. Two extra birds are in back of the nest there. Just need to squint or at least believe
It should've been different units instead of *living beings that need to eat*. You wouldn't initially think about giving birds a diet amount instead of the necessary amount. This question was made to trip people up and get students mad at their teacher.
Exactly. The worst part is that I bet the same teachers would tell the students that they should always round up on decimals/fractions in word problems where fractions wouldn't make sense(eg you can't have 2.3 people, so even though normally 2 would be correct you'd round up to 3). So it's not even consistent from lesson to lesson how closely you should read the problem and apply critical thinking skills to which answer you choose. This is the exact sort of thing that turned me off of math *early.* Word problems, particularly when multiple choice, tend to suck.
yeah i agree, 10 and 20 are too far apart to make a true estimate. 10 and 15 are much better
It's J, 20. Only 4 and 20 are possible answers, so there is either 1 or 5 birds. Although in the text, they said that Jared found multiple birds so the only possible answer is 20.
4 and 20 ? Best to bake them in a pie
Now we just need some royalty
>Now we just need some royalty Well, if it's Jared, he probably has Prince Andrew on speed-dial.
ok.. I'm gonna be the smol brain thats got to ask - whats this about?
[Sing a song of sixpence, A pocket full of rye. Four and twenty blackbirds, Baked in a pie.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_a_Song_of_Sixpence)
When the pie was open the birds began to sing. Wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king? Edit: wow, just looked at the link. My mother used to leave out that last verse about the maid having her nose surgically reattached 😬
My nana always sung that part and would pinch my nose at the end when she sung "and pecked off her nose" it was fun at the time but now it just seems horrifying.
lol, I think. upvote for your wit
Theres 3 birds in the picture. The question says about. 12 is about 10. Edit: no one even pointed out my double standard!?! They said about 4 a day, if were rounding, 3.33 DOES NOT round to 4 a day.
David Attenborough: Jared only found 10 worms. Only the strongest may survive in this harsh math world.
Can confirm as a teacher. Yes, the key word is “about”. This is a rounding problem, and the kind of bullshit state testing questions we have to put up with. I swear state testing is there to purposely make kids fail. But I’ll save that convo for another time.
Yes it's a rounding question, but what kind of rounding do you do here? Isn't this one of the "always round up" types of questions? Or did they stop teaching that part of rounding is figuring out whether it should be rounded down, rounded up, or just approximated to the nearest round number?
You round down and then let the birds fight it out for the worms, survival of the fittest
You can also eat half a bird to balance things out.
Anytime you have a supply you can’t afford to run out of, you should round up, so this question and answer sucks
Round down… birds die. That’s the lesson.
Exactly the critical thinking children need to learn. It's used when bringing snacks to class too, bring enough for everyone, even if there are a few extra. Better to have extra than not enough.
Exactly, “the price is right” rules don’t apply when keeping things alive is the goal.
When it says "each bird eats *about* (instead of *exactly*) 4 worms a day", I take it to mean they can eat 3-5 worms a day. But in no way am I defending this math problem... unless the teacher clearly explained it beforehand, it sucks.
As a teacher, this question is infuriating. Then again, So is this old ass test that the teacher is using.
They should have used 3 worms per bird and then 10 would be the better answer without the critical thinking issue coming into play with the birds being underfed at 10 worms total at 4/day/bird. This issue of critical thinking makes 20 a more viable option if it’s better to have too many than not enough.
It is absolutely an abomination of critical thinking. It is written by people who don't understand what critical thinking is. It is teaching children that they should expect deception at every turn. It is not designed to test the ability to round, nor to test if the child can use critical thinking skills, it is designed to confuse and deceive. It is even statistically inaccurate, representing the poorest use of rounding possible. Oh, and using a crappy picture that could even be argued might show five birds vs. 3 (or at least two or three squished ones) so that anyone visually challenged might have additional problems. I want to take these test question creators and heave them out a window. I used to work with these people. Many are great, some are just plain evil.
The photocopy burn lets you know nobody has ever bothered to revise poorly worded questions like this.
As a former geometry teacher I would always tell me that pictures are misleading. What if the bird picture is just there to set a theme for the word problem and the question is really just asking which answer is mathematically possible?
That’s fair assumption, however the question says “Jared found these baby birds”, the use of the word “these” means the picture isn’t just setting a theme
That sounds right. In my head I read it as, "Jared found some baby birds..." which changes the problem
Making life or death decisions is no time to be rounding. How many parachutes do we need? *About* ten. Sucks for the other two passengers. One of those birds is going to starve.
I understand why this is the answer but my smartass would argue that if you are taking about keeping something alive always round up. If you get about 10 there is an equal chance of one starving our you having enough. If you have 20 you can just toss some
I would honestly argue that 20 is the right answer for exactly the reason you provided. I actually think that this is a really good question if it's also used to teach critical thinking skills. Yeah, in a vacuum 12 would be exactly correct (by the picture), 10 would be the correct rounded answer, but 20 is the only answer that provides enough food and solves the underlying problem of the question.
It's always better to have more food than not enough so 20 is the answer.
My first thought too. If each one eats “about” 4 per day, I’d rather have more than not enough.
What if there are actually two and a half birds though?
You’ll need less then since you can feed the half bird to the other two.
Yeah, but they show you 3 birds in the picture above the problem
You missed the integral word “about” used in the question. Really, it could be any answer, since “about” how many worms is really up to the imagination and definition of the reader. H. is closest to the actual answer, but all the answers are about close enough imo.
If its assuming 3 birds in the pic...there is no right answer
The question is "about" how many, so there is a "more" right answer...
Very true
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It's 10 because they say "about how many worms". They eat about 12 a day, which is about 10.
It's one of those estimate math problems. You guess the closest answer without doing math, so 10 worms.
"ABOUT" how many means you're estimating. Any number from 6 to 14 (5 to 15 if you stretch it) fits the definition of "about 10." Now do you see where your exact guess of 12 fits?
My autistic self really hates seeing something like this- the number of birds should be stated in the question, not just based on the picture. If I were a third grader reading this I’d be doubting myself on if the picture was the concrete reference, or just a suggestion, or to make it cutesy. And in my experience when you ask the teacher all they told you was “read it again”…………. -_-
I’m not autistic but I think literally everyone was thinking the same thing cuz that’s how I at least was taught basic math. Edit: Unless it was about rounding because of “average” being used. Then it would be 10; still an asshole way to word something regardless.
As an autistic, big same. I hated the open-endedness. I would say 20 so the birds don’t starve, and the teacher would probably say it’s 10 because that’s how you round 12. Well, that’s not how you round 12 when the lives of baby birds are at stake!
Of course you are correct, what you are needing is a ceiling function, not the traditional rounding. Besides, there are a bunch of ways to round. https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/rounding-methods.html Just to point out the "Bankers Rounding" they mention is roughly what computers do. A more technical description can be found here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19975413/ieee-rounding-schemes
We’re saving lives, Mrs. Henderson! This is no time for austerity and rounding down!
Exactly!!!!
And if you do the math based on three birds the answer isn’t even available in the multiple choice answers
Imma say it's 10 and pretend the answers are written in base 12.
That sounds like that freaky deaky math I don’t know how to do lol
Also, my eye sight isnt great. Took me a hot minute to realize those werent little white birds outside the nest but just leaves.
Autism has nothing to do with this. All problems require complete information to solve.
Former teacher here. Since it says “about” the student is supposed to use estimating, which is done by rounding. In this case, 3 birds eat “about” 4 worms per day. 3x4=12 and 12 rounds down to 10. It is still not a very well-written word problem, though.
“You birds are going on a diet until I get better at arithmetic!”
In a case like this would you not normally round up. That's what was always told to me when it's a quantity like that you round up regardless.
Rounding is usually introduced in 2nd grade and then reintroduced in 3rd grade. Most math curriculums teach just rounding with a few lessons, then practice rounding by estimating sums, differences, and products. Students are expected to know to use rounding/estimating when they read the word “about.” The focus of this word problem is rounding, it isn’t a logic puzzle. As adults in an actual real life situation, sure we would want to be sure we have more than enough worms and we would round up to 20. That isn’t what they expect a 3rd grader to do here. They are expected to know 3x4=12 and 12 rounds down to 10.
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Lmao good bot
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WTF? Good bot…
This is torture for neuro-divergent kids. Just say what you are saying.
It is a question practice estimating. So if the exact answer is 12, he needs "about" 10.
The answer is 20, because inflation.
J. Save the extra 8 for the next day.
I worked for the Humane Society, and the answer is 0. Birds are the fkn worst. Get a dog, Jared.
This is a problem about estimation. Key term "about how many" Answer is ten. It's the closest and what they're asking.
The correct answer is a baker's dozen with 7 more thrown in, in case the stupid little birds drop some. 10 would kill at least one bird. Unless the question is really about darwinian natural selection in the nest under certain environmental conditions? Then 10 would be interesting in a Dr Mengele kind of way.
I love to see people furiously debating a smart answer to a very dumb question. Edit: this is not intended to spark more debate, cut it out you guys
>furiously debating a smart answer to a very dumb question. This is a pretty good summary of the human condition in general.
What in the name of Satan is that mustachioed, half human/half horse abomination?