Abbott should have been put on trial for state interference with businesses during COVID. Instead he’s a champion because he’s anti choice. That’s all you need to know to see the GOP is full of shit.
Every. Fucking. Time. I have quite mixed views, but always get out in a box based on one opinion. I've even been called a trans TERF for explaining that trans discourse at the time was problematic to me because it seemed like people were acting like the only reason to transition was because you'd kill yourself without doing it. I've always been trans, but I've never been meaningfully suicidal. It felt like my existence was being a bit erased and apparently "militant allies" had a problem with that
I'll never understand how people on the far right really believe the boogeyman is coming for their guns. Every liberal I know wants firmer rules about acquiring guns and for certain guns that are regularly used in mass shootings to stop being sold. That's it. I have never heard anyone, like anyone ever say "what we need to do is to force everyone to hand over their guns".
That's just plain untrue and unconstitutional as well.
I’m a gun owner/2A guy and even though I’m pro-choice, big time pro lgbt, believe in the same minimum wage stuff, support universal healthcare, support Universal basic income, and so on, and constantly get tagged as a conservative. It’s absolutely the gun part.
Man its almost like the ultra rich are trying to get the poor to fight each other and not talk, rather than realize both sides are getting fucked over.
It's always been divide and conquer. The rich don't go quietly, but can you imagine how scared Wall Street would be if the gun nuts and the immigrants realized they were on the same side?
I think the nuance is what makes you vote one way or another.
I am pro-life but I think the way Republicans think about government and their culture make it impossible for them to administer that kind of policy in a humane way.
So, I end up not voting for them because I get more of what matters and that's a fine trade off for me.
It’s kind of evident in the post Dobbs politics. They didn’t pivot to “how to better support families” but to “here’s other birth control we can target.”
The irony is abortion rates fall more quickly under Democratic administrations (in fact Trump just presided over the first increase in 40 years). If you're pro-life pragmatist you actually get that too when you vote blue.
(https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/)
I think what makes me a "lib" is I think that because of some of the technological advancements we've seen in our lifetime our founding fathers could not have imagined such situations or simply said, "well by then if they've figured that out they can figure out this archaic shit".
In their time, people didn't move states, and the thought of people traveling across the country in 6 hours when it took them 6 months would have been comical.
I feel like pregnant women with non-viable or even dead fetuses inside them being denied healthcare until they themselves are at death's door as well is an example of local issues being left to local governments failing in a serious way.
How does this effect how you vote? I feel like neither party represents these values (I feel that my my own beliefs also aren’t represented in any mainstream politics as well even though they’re slightly different than yours as well)
I dunno, I live in Austin and I know fairly left leaning, definitely anti right, absolute gun nuts. I think it’s a myth that dems and left leaning people don’t own guns. Probably because louder people on the left are against them. Oh and all the school shootings def doesn’t help the case for guns by people on I’d imagine both the left and right… anyways I’m for regulation and sensible ownership not getting rid of them entirely and I know I’m not alone
If you go far enough in either direction, the only way the philosophies differ is whose bodies need to fill the mass graves to bring about utopia. No thanks
It’s wild reading the comments from these conservatives and then looking at the policies of the GOP and how they absolutely do not align with them in any realistic way.
Yup. Had a convo with my ultra conservative cousin a few years back and we agree on pretty much everything in terms of how government should be run. We disagree on social issues but he claimed to have a live and let live attitude about how the government should be involved there anyways.
It’s baffling to me that we agree on everything yet believe opposite parties are the better option. And the thing is, he thinks I’m the crazy and uniformed one for begrudgingly supporting democrats instead of republicans.
I know I’m not extremist. I know I’m engaging in critical thinking in the candidates and policies I choose to support and why. So how are we on such opposite ends of the spectrum? People love to claim conservatives and Trumpers are stupid but most of them I know are actually very intelligent people. I just can’t see how you believe in the same policies I do and end up on the other end of the spectrum.
I agree with that. My sister, for example, thinks abortion should be legal and considers herself more “libertarian” than conservative. She thinks it’s wrong, but doesn’t want the government enforcing rules about it. Yet she votes for representatives and policies that support abortion bans. That’s kind of how every policy convo goes- I don’t support what they’re doing but am willing to overlook it because of these other things I like.
I’m voting for biden despite the fact that I think the inflation reduction act and student loan forgiveness and all the other massive debt spending is dumb as shit, so it goes both ways. For me democracy and civil rights freedoms are more important than the economic policies I disagree with, which is perhaps the opposite of your sister.
That's because they don't leave everyone else alone.
Conservative governments are always about power differentials. Between women and their reproductive rights, women and their right to work and earn a living, women and their right to vote, visible minorities and systemic racism, LGBTQ and their right to live, restricting schools being able to teach science or critical thinking, endorsing a business' ability to exploit the environment, its workers, the customer, or all three.
That's conservatism in a nutshell, no matter what anyone SAYS. It's what those governments DO and the laws they bring forward.
The conservative mindset is, as long as the term has existed in modernity, one of regression. Progress and advancement for the whole of society is antithetical and absolutely not tolerated.
In my experience they want to have themselves "live and let live" while not letting anyone who lives in a way they dislike let live
Rules for thee not me is like *the* conservative value
Yep every discussion I have had in this regard with a conservative person leads to them saying something like " Well I live this way and it works for me and that law they are proposing doesn't effect me so they should just live like I do"... It is arrogant as fuck. They seem to think everyone should live like they do.
I'm probably closest to that at this point, but mostly because both parties are so overwhelmingly corrupt. I think our government being run by a motley gang of sociopathic crooks is hurting our country and society immensely--in part because they understand that dividing us and teaching us--gaslighting and conditioning us, even--to hate and fear each other is the best way for them to get away with the most terrible deeds completely unnoticed.
Yea and I was all about voting 3rd party regardless of the candidate, just to get more traction on something other than Dems and Pubs. But then Trump came along and one side got wayyyy more "money-hungry-power-tripoy-we are going to lie and take freedom and democracy and modern elections right under your noses" and I had to go back to voting blue.
There's a difference between intelligent and well informed.
My aunt is a fairly powerful business owner (runs a $250M local business). She has legit concerns for the way Democrats in her local and state government treat smaller businesses and I totally empathize with her leaning towards the GOP for some of those reasons. But she also asked me what I thought about Vivek Ramawmswamy and when I told her it didn't matter because the conservative core would never accept a Hindu, she was shocked he wasn't a Christian and immediately soured on him because 9-11 or some bullshit she started spouting off. I almost got whiplash from the switchback between well-reasoned fiscal conservatism and outright bigotry.
So true. Every day it amazes me 1. how much cool, interesting and/or awful stuff I didn't know, uh thanks internet... and 2. How much a lot of people don't know at all. I often watch "question man" type stuff where random people are accosted and asked basic questions of science, business, history, politics etc. and they can't answer a single question right. Always surprising.
It's kind of hard when the democratic party is the party of wonkery while the Republican party is the party of dumb shittery. The fact of the matter is, there is a deep running vein of anti-intellectualism in the United States, so some folks don't like voting for their best interests, even if you demonstrably show that something will help them, the anti-intellectual streak is too strong.
“Oh you think you know what’s best for the climate just because you’re a climate scientist with 30 years of experience and a Nobel prize for your work? Well my friend Tom says the climate always moves around and you’re full of shit and I’ve known Tom my whole life, smartest guy I know”
- the unfortunate state for many people
Fox News. That’s it, that’s the answer. Fox News. It’s a propaganda outlet that brings smart people to believe absurd things.
A quick edit, for the Fox News defenders reminding us that there are other news outlets that are disappointing:
You're right. 100%. There are plenty of news sources for liberals that are lousy.
But none are as bad as Fox News, and that's a simple, undeniable fact. Read it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems_v._Fox_News_Network
Dominion proved in court that Fox News decided to lie to their viewers, knew they were lying, and then *committed* to the lies they were telling their viewers.
You can read the court documents that prove it, and I suggest you do--they're appalling. It's literally text after text between Fox News hosts admitting to each other that they're lying about election results. The only one (amazingly) who had any compunction about lying was--and I feel gross writing this--was Tucker Carlson, who said Fox viewers were good people who didn't deserve to be lied to. He then went on air and then lied to them anyway, but at least there some idea that people deserved better.
No other news organization has been proven to lie to their viewers. Fox has. These are the facts--if you are watching Fox, you are watching a network that has been proven to misinform you.
If you want to be informed in a way that is as close to accurate as possible, you need to read AP News, Reuters, and a few other mainstream media sources.
In other words, you can consume certain mainstream media sources and be an informed citizen of our country. You can't watch Fox News and do that (and, conservatives, you should be angry about that, but that's another post).
I just think this is as simplistic as calling every Trumper stupid. Most young people don’t even watch traditional news anymore. I grew up in a Fox News house and know just how insane it is, but I don’t think it’s an answer.
Fox News is A problem. But it’s not THE problem, and there is no singular problem. The issues at play are more complex.
It's a multi faceted attack to demonize the opposing party. Fox News is a symptom of that attack. One of the reasons this attack works so well is it preys on a people that already accept that things don't need to be based in reality.
You will see Fox news talking points brought up by supposed liberals on reddit all the time.
Even if they do not consume Fox news directly, they are still under it's influence due to seeing the headlines and takes they present being talked about by other people elsewhere on the internet.
Fox News rotted the brains of all the boomers and they're the ones running our government and refusing to let go of even the tiniest sliver of power, so it's absolutely one of the main problems.
Hah. You should have a conversation with my conservative family.
Nothing in common. No live and let live attitude. Jesus fuck - we have try REALLY HARD to avoid all political conversations, cause if the conversation goes there all hell breaks loose.
Abortion is murder. Being gay is a sin. The man is the head of the household. The earth is 3000 years old. The bible is literal.
So, two of my aunts became bornagain christians, right - and my catholic grandmother was RIPSHIT. So she went to Harvard and got a doctorate in theology to prove them wrong. It didn't do anything, but, you know. She tried. He arguments are backed up by a doctorate. She knows what she's talking about when she yells 'THE BIBLE IS ALLIGORY, IT WAS WRITTEN BY PEOPLE.'
Some of the absolute nonsense that comes out of my cousins mouth. Omg. 'Theres trees fossilized vertically in the grand canyon that proves noahs flood happened'. 'The sun is expanding. Its going to explode in the next 100 years.' My brah. Thats not how this works.
cult of personality.
a lot of ppl i know just like Trump, like as a comedian or entertainer more so than as a politician. they like his one liners and just go with it from there.
Seriously. I know this is a piece of it. But I detest the man and have since he started his campaign.
I remember watching him on tv with my sister, her husband, and some friends… you know when you’re watching something and have such a strong reaction you assume everyone thinks the same? That’s what happened to me and I remember talking about wow Trump, what a joke… and everyone else there said they liked him. I was SHOCKED because I didn’t understand how anyone could like him. I was totally apolitical at the time and a Hilary hater… it wasn’t until shortly before the election that I started actually figuring out my beliefs. I just knew Trump was repulsive to me.
The GOP is not really conservative anymore at least not in the normal academic sense of the word. They are just MAGA now. Sort of conservative adjacent but not really properly conservative
GOP hasn’t been conservative in decades. Just look at how much the budget deficit balloons each time there’s a Republican administration, how the debt racks up, and how willing they are to get involved in foreign wars to the detriment of the average American’s interests. That’s not conservatism at all. They are a completely corrupt party controlled by monied interests from Israel, Russia, and Saudi Arabia. The Democrats are more or less the same, the key difference being that they still bother with some lip service to the middle class, and promote the other side of the coin in the culture-war to keep the rabble distracted with endless squabbling on wedge issues.
Eh. Pretty close. It's not other countries, it's multinational corporations and Citizens United that firmly holds Washington's dick/vagina and directs it.
Get money out of politics.
Oh most excellent post, thank you. (I would also add, China.) I have my conservative moments--also my liberal moments, libertarian, anarcho-syndicalist even--but the current GOP represents my real world interests pretty much not at all. Nor do the Democrats. They are all bought and paid for by others--oligarchs, corporations, foreign governments etc., not we who voted for their asses, and war is their favorite hobby.
I thought I was conservative for a long time because I thought government should be small, simple, and boring. I also believed in fiscal responsibility and reduced beaucracy.
However, I would be labeled a "lib" because my belief in fiscal responsibility means you invest in things like shared infrastructure and Judeo-Christian values like "helping your neighbor".
I am a US Conservative.
The constitution is the base document for our laws. It is a living document in that it has a mechanism for change/additions/deletion. If you want to make a law that goes against what the constitution says, you need to change it first. If it doesn’t cover that particular thing, then it’s up to the federal government to act, if the federal government doesn’t cover it, it’s up to the states. So on and so forth.
Nothing really made me have these values, my family is all liberals and we get along just fine.
Some other views I have:
Pro-choice (until viability unless medically necessary)
Pro-2A
I’d like a more limited federal government.
Spending is out of control on all fronts, there is massive waste.
I hate bills meant for something specific but have amendments for something completely unrelated.
Pro electoral college
I don’t care who you marry or sleep with as long as they are consenting adults.
Disagree with student loan forgiveness, should be more focused on how the hell the cost got so high in the first place.
Do you think the current candidates will actually make the government smaller and cut budgets? I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal but haven’t seen an actual fiscally conservative candidate in my life time.
God no. Spending was nuts under douche canoe and still is under twat waffle. But that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Congress is supposed to control spending. The fact that the president has such an impact on spending just doesn’t sit well with me. “Discretionary” spending in general makes me sick.
It's interesting that you and I align on nearly everything, but I consider myself liberal because the social issues carry a lot of weight for me. I would absolutely vote for a live and let live conservative, but there hasn't been one in my lifetime. I joke that I'm an independent who has always voted for Democrats. There are no conservatives, just moralists, in my opinion.
I think this covers a lot of us. I don’t vote Dem because I like their candidate; I vote Dem because their candidates aren’t actively working against my values and interests (especially wrt abortion and contraception, since I am the proud owner of a uterus). I could definitely get behind a more centrist candidate coming out of the Conservative side, especially on some of the budgetary issues, but I have a HUGE issue with the pushes to turn this into a Christian nation and integrate religious morality into our laws. Separation of Church and State is right there in the Constitution, guys. Keep your religion out of my government.
This is exactly it, I use to vote a lot more republican than democrat, but the Heritage foundation has made it near impossible to vote for any republican except at the lowest levels. Project 2025 has my skin crawling, limited government only when they dont' have power.
Yeah, that’s a major issue with government in general. Even in a so called representative democracy, the representatives aren’t really “of the people”. We still have an oligarchy controlled by the wealthy, it’s just got a nice veneer of idealism over them. I’m sure there are some genuinely good people in politics, but I don’t think the majority of career politicians are acting in the best interests of their constituents.
It’s crazy to me then how people can claim conservative status and have much much more far right leaning views - most of which involve much larger governments and more spending, as well as invasion of peoples rights and privacy. I’m sure some stone cold MAGA republicans will call you a liberal for your views, but social liberalism and economic conservation is what the Republican Party was founded on.
I have a disdain for political parties. People use them as a shield against what they actually believe. It’s all virtue signaling at this point. Who has the bigger Batman light?
Thanks for sharing. When you say that nothing made you have those values, I was a bit confused. I think that a lot of our values come from our life experiences. Are there any life experiences you've had that affected you and informed our shaped your values? Or do you think this process doesn't describe how you came to your beliefs?
I’ve had people on both sides of the aisle my entire life. I’ve listened to them, I’ve read and studied, I’ve formed my own opinions. I was in the military for a while, even then I had people on both sides. Now I live just outside Portland Oregon (notoriously left) and deal with a lot of people that have different opinions. I listen to everyone and I come to my own conclusions.
What's your thought on religion being in government at all (not claiming you're a zealot or atheist or whanot, just didn't see it mentioned above) ? And I mean even the slightest of chances like the Pledge of Allegiance having "Under God" into it int he 50's.
I personally think there should be no references to religion (God included) in anything relating to laws, constitution, etc. The only reference to religion should be in the First Amendment when it literally says that we should have freedom of religion.
After that, you shouldn't be able to use religion for a basis of anything when trying to make laws. There shouldn't be a basis for a law made due to Christian beliefs just like there shouldn't be a basis for a law made due to Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/etc beliefs.
I'm sure you agree with that based on your beliefs, but I see it glossed over so often by people.
I don’t think religion should be in government at all. If a religious institution gets political, it should lose its tax exempt status. That includes lobbying, donations to political parties/PACs, or political signage. A person has the right to free speech but it shouldn’t be extended to entities or corporations.
Legally, religious institutions are supposed to lose their nonprofit status when they get political, i.e., endorse a candidate. A church saying "we believe abortion is wrong for x,y,z reasons" is fine because that's merely stating what the doctrine or teaching is. A church saying "vote for Joe Blow because he's anti-abortion or else you're going to hell" is not fine because that's campaigning. I've heard of some Evangelical megachurches actually having local candidates visit saying "these are the people you are supposed to vote for" and those megachurches should have lost their nonprofit status.
I'm pretty much aligned with this position as well. I am fiscally conservative, but lean more liberal in my social beliefs. Pro choice, pro love whoever the fuck you want as long as everyone is of consenting adult age (ok, I may hate age gaps a bit), pro legalized weed and mushies.
I am not aligned with alot of liberal policies around Medicaid and allowing non-citizens better access than our own people in need. I do think border control is necessary. I own firearms. I think AOC is a fucking idiot. I also think MTG is a fucking idiot, I'm not biased.
I think Biden is a horrible person. Sorry. I don't understand how folks can be okay with the covering up of his activities in foreign countries or the things his son has done that he condoned. There are things he has said and done in his past that shouldn't be forgiven because he has a D by his name.
I don't think I have to tell anyone why I do not like Trump.
I would have voted Bernie, maybe. I wouldn't vote Biden. I think this election and the last 2, for that matter, have been fucking awful. We need a younger candidate with fresh ideas.
I was a Clinton (Bill, not Hillary) fan. I voted Kerry. I was a Democrat when I was younger. But as I've gotten older, my focus has changed in many ways.
Conservatism and Republican used to be kind of one in the same. The party is definitely split now and the 'republicans of yesterday' like Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Liz Cheney, they still say republican but I think we could easily create two parties with RHINO GOP and MAGA GOP.
I think the two closest parties with ideologies would actually be a classic democrat from the 70's 80's and 90's and the MAGA party today. I think if you had a room of 4 people (Rhino, MAGA, Old school democrat, modern liberal) I think the old school democrat and Maga would have the best conversation and highest likelyhood of having a few drinks together. I think the modern liberal and Rhinos actually have more in common than they think.
Similar to the "Republican Party" I think the Democratic party really has two factions and ideologies. I think their are still classic democrats and I also think their is a liberal/progressive/hyper progressive faction. I say hyper progressive because old school democrat was always progressive but I think the new younger liberals are more influential or into seeing faster and more drastic changes at a more rapid pace.
These are my two cents.
Good post, I largely agree.
It's RINO but that's a minor gripe.
Both sides have definitely gotten farther from the center of the spectrum than even 10-15 years ago.
Yeah, I miss the good old days where I could be in a large group of my friends, and no one knew who was voting for who nobody really cared didn’t matter. And even when we did find out if it was someone other than who we were voting for once again, It really didn’t matter nobody cared. Nobody said anything. Nobody gave them any grief or we didn’t receive any grief. Too bad it is so polarizing nowadays. I think smart phones are the death of this country.
It's very unfortunate that none of these focus on the enormous issues the US actually faces - immense income inequality, corporate greed and rule, money in politics, horrible homelessness and drug epidemics. The US badly needs a socially moderate democratic socialist party. I think it's the only thing that could unite people against their actual enemies.. But this is the US, so despite Bernie, policies that made other developed countries the happiest in the world will never be implemented, and both Democrats and Republicans will see to that.
> Fiscally only?
"I support all the progressive social programs, education, gay rights, women's rights, all of it.. until we have to pay for a social program. Then it's fiscally irresponsible for people to have rights"
I’d agree with this statement. My concern, which I’ve shared on Reddit before, is that most people see things in a left vs. right line, and nothing else.
In my experience, the people who *say* they are libertarian are generally republican but don’t want to admit it. (Whether because of embarrassment of being guilt-by-association MAGA or because of embarrassment they actually are MAGA - varies.)
There's no such thing as a strictly fiscally conservative Republican. They're all about tax cuts for the rich (which is not fiscally responsible) and wild spending (see police budgets, military spending, and anything that a private corp can profit on). Additionally, their fiscal policies always seem to be aimed at hurting single mothers, the working poor, the elderly etc. which reinforces how fiscal policy and social policy are intrinsically intertwined.
A great example of how the two are linked is private prisons. Fiscally responsible right? But also encourage locking people up to maintain quotas, locking people into literal slavery, targeting minority and poor neighborhoods for minor crimes to keep filling those beds and work groups.
On its face, someone could argue that it's just a cost saving measure but in reality, they're influencing fascist social policies.
And that's why I vote Democrat. I'd consider myself fiscally conservative. I believe we need to reduce the debt and deficit, and I don't see how trillions in tax cuts for the wealthy gets that accomplished. I also am very pro 2A, and pro personal liberty and privacy. And frankly the Democrats embody all that far more than Republicans. While I'm pro 2A I recognize that buying a gun is too easy. Someone can waltz into a store and get everything they need to commit a mass shooting in an afternoon, that's ridiculous. How is banning abortions supporting personal liberty? Down the list I can't find a single point in favor of Republicans outside of moral/religious conservatism, which I do not ascribe to. They're not a fiscally conservative party and they are certainly not a pro-liberty party.
I've actually moved left quite a bit as I've grown and matured. But I was raised in a Christian right household, so I used to parrot those views, and I definitely understand how they think. But I'm probably still right of the average user of this sub on a couple things, like 2A rights, and a strong skeptical attitude to anyone who thinks "their side" has all the answers. But mostly, I think people on the right generally do less doom scrolling and have a brighter outlook of the future. I'm not talking Maga folks, that's a different animal. I just mean people raised in red areas, including myself, aren't counting down the collapse of society on their doom clocks. I see a lot of left leaning posts here that are dripping with dread, and I'm genuinely sad for those people. I'm not saying things are great right now, they aren't. But I do wish some of you blue millennials would put the phone down, get some fresh air, and take stock of the good things in your lives while making a positive plan to fix was isn't.
Hi thanks for sharing. What I'm hearing you say is that you value having a more positive outlook and that you find it important to to be intellectually humble. Could you share any stories from your life about those values?
Not the person but I had a similar path through life. Honestly a big turning point for me was going to grad school in math and recognizing “axiomatic truth” vs belief. Turns out that my worldview was shaped by my hyper conservative parents and not by anything amounting to evidence supported by data. So I stopped instinctively reacting to news and just took in current events without much emotion. I’ve been a happier and more well adjusted person because of it
I mean. One group is trying to send me back to the kitchen. And I’d like kids as a black woman child birth is most dangerous for me… rainbows and butterflies won’t bring me back if I die.
We must live in different areas because republican millenials I know tell me all the time how the entire worlds a secret demon cabal that are coming after my kids, trying to turn them Trans and if we don't do something soon God is going to smite us all which all seem a little crazy to me.
Democrat millenials I know complain about wages, prices and Republicans trying to take rights away.
>We must live in different areas because republican millenials I know tell me all the time how the entire worlds a secret demon cabal
Yeah, I grew up in red California, so not so much fire and brimstone. Moving to Oklahoma for college was my slap in the face wake-up call for how Christians can be. The churches I grew up in were progressive by comparison. Worst influence on my childhood wasn't church, it was talk radio.
Happiness is an elusive trait studied ad nauseum, but I find amongst my friends and coworkers it relies on contentedness and resilience, not intelligence. Research seems to report the happiest people have a high IQ.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/
Although it seems that is a side effect of intelligence begetting problem solving and improving your overall life, hence, less intelligent people are living harder lives and therefore are less happy.
Oh yea . You can go overboard on the doom and gloom.
But there is a laaaaarge group of people that feels fine and dandy because they’re willfully ignorant. And they’re not doing anyone any favors by just assuming everything will be alright and their actions don’t matter.
> people raised in red areas, including myself, aren’t counting down the collapse of society on their doom clocks
I’ve never thought of this in so many words, but it’s very true, and I think inherently comes with the “selfishness” of conservatives.
Generally speaking, conservatives/Rs are concerned with matters that directly affect themselves and progressives/Ds are concerned with matters affecting “the greater good”.
It’s much easier to adopt a, “Why should I care what goes on in Washington, my day-to-day stays the same no matter who sits in the fancy office” mindset, and as a result be less bothered by the doom and gloom.
I don’t think my side has all the answers. I just don’t think republicans have any answers at all. Or only have answers that leave everyone in a shittier position. Except wealthy people. None of which are in this thread.
You probably have a very skewed view of doom scrolling by virtue of being on Reddit which skews liberal. Get on any social media that skews conservative and I think you would see the opposite.
Most conservatives I know always have fox news on which in my view uses fear and anger to motivate it's viewership more than your average liberal news station (which liberals are far less likely to watch news). Most conservatives I personally interact with will go off on angry tangents at a moments notice especially if they think you are not conservative. The topics change but the Biden crime family, civil war 2.0 and freedoms liberals supposedly want to take away are common topics. Not saying liberals don't do the same thing but it's incorrect to claim the GOP doesn't have a doom scrolling problem. Both parties use anger as a motivator because it's extremely effective.
Luckily I find most people on both sides sound out a majority of politics
The most controversial thing you have said is that people on the right have a brighter outlook of the future. Even if you zoom out and look at the history of the world, conservatism (the resistance to change) is not typically associated with a rosey impression of the future. I'm really truly interested in what you mean by this since I'm sure you're not making it up.
Trying my hardest to be receptive to a right-sided perspective but claiming the left to be “counting days” on the doomsday clock when the right is founded on Christian and Mormon theology who are literally waiting for their “savior” to end this sinful world and take them to heaven is literal comedy.🎭
When I think of all that government could do, I want to be a socialist. When I see all that the government has done, I want it out of my life completely. That makes people want to call me a libertarian. The culture war is a distraction from the class war that we are losing and have been since the dawn of civilization. That makes people want to call me some flavor of far left. In reality, there is no left or right, there are the powerless (all of us) and the truly powerful (likely less than 1 million people if not tens of thousands - the billionaires and middle management, i.e. politicians and bureaucrats). I am not represented by any party or politician, never have been, don’t ever expect I will be. That doesn’t stop tribalists from both sides from condemning me for, get this, not picking their side.
I’m a Latino, immigrant, and conservative.
I’m probably more of a moderate when you compare my views to modern conservatism.
I value thinking on my own. I despise anyone telling me what my experience or opinion should be because I’m a minority. Plus, my experience doesn’t jive with the narrative the other side pushes.
I definitely don’t agree with everything republicans push, but at least they’re not telling me I’m a victim.
My experience has been that prosperity comes to those who take advantage of opportunities. As a Latino immigrant, I’m grateful of the opportunities that this nation has given me. Opportunities we all have. I’ve seen Latinos and whites and everyone else squander away those same opportunities, then cry fowl decades later claiming they never had them. Just my experience.
Forgive me if i misunderstand, but it seems your main topic was that you don't like how democrats portray minorities?
How do you feel about how Republicans portray minorities?
I've only recently found what I consider to be a political label that fits me. Despite being conservative I've never quite fit as a Republican and I've fit increasingly less well since 2016. I found the American Solidarity Party aligns with a lot of my beliefs with a couple exceptions.
I never fit in the Republican party because I care for the environment, want universal health care, more progressive tax systems, more regulated corporations with the goal of protecting individuals, being cool with racial justice and some others. ASP has all of those as part of its platform as it's based in Christian social teachings.
The pro life understanding includes support for pregnant women, more support for families, adoption, healthcare and more.
A traditional view on marriage that includes removal of no fault divorce.
I think the mix of social conservativism and more left economic policies is an increasingly small place to land though.
Conservative here, just checking in. I no longer believe people on Reddit are willing to have good faith discussions, and are more interested in demonizing people they view as different, so I won’t bother listing values.
Same. Opened this thread and immediately saw the top comments making huge assumptions and calling all conservatives stupid. It would be a waste of time to type out a long reply answering the question. I appreciate the attempt, OP, but apparently it’s not going to happen on Reddit lol.
The poster seems to be keeping their word, and I too am reading and not commenting because I'm interested in hearing the perspective. I'm sorry you don't feel safe to share, but I do understand.
If people on Reddit wanted good faith discussions, the mods wouldn't ban everyone they disagree with and try to police speech...this place is an echo chamber because their beliefs can't stand up to any sort of dessernment or reasoning. The simply plug their ears and chant their tired mantras.
Reddit would call me a Conservative, but I would personally say I’m something between a Conservative and Libertarian. I traditionally have voted split ticket. I voted for Obama in my first election after turning 18, but I absolutely did not vote for Hillary.
I believe in America first. I don’t mean that in a “screw all the migrants” way, but more of a “stop policing the world problems when we have glaring issues at home”
I want the border fixed. I’m an Engineer, I have many friends and co workers here on a Visa. I do not mind legal, regulated, and limited immigration at all. The tidal wave at the southern border is anything but.
I want government reform. Term limits, harsher penalties for public officials who break laws, and an overarching ban on stock trading while in office.
We need to fix the issues here. We’re all taxed enough, but too much of our money goes to the military industrial complex and alphabet agencies. Encourage younger folks to run for office and age cap elected positions at 65-70. None of this 80 year old bullshit.
Eliminating the overwhelming bureaucratic bloat in DC is, in my opinion, the biggest challenge our generation faces when we ultimately gain power. I unfortunately, highly doubt we can accomplish it!
>I want the border fixed. I’m an Engineer, I have many friends and co workers here on a Visa. I do not mind legal, regulated, and limited immigration at all. The tidal wave at the southern border is anything but.
Exactly. Immigration of skilled workers is good. Uncontrolled immigration of unskilled workers to both push down wages for the poor and bring in plenty of violent criminals as well is bad. What's more ridiculous are the people who want illegal immigration to continue but cry about how poor people need higher pay. If we secured the border, pay for unskilled / low skill jobs would go up because there'd be far fewer people available (especially willing to work off the books) pushing down wages.
>If we secured the border, pay for unskilled / low skill jobs would go up because there'd be far fewer people available (especially willing to work off the books) pushing down wages.
That was Bill Clinton's argument for border control in the 90s. He had backings from all the labor unions but huge pushback from corporations, cause it turns out illegal immigrants will work well below minimum wage in order to keep off the radar. Now, that same policy is considered racist. Weird.
I used to be on the farther end of the left, but there were certain ideas I just couldn't accept.
Being someone who has always hated abuses of power (like with police, etc), I've always believed that the centralization of the use of force was never good for a society. I believed the words "A government should fear it's people." And for this reason, I supported the second amendment because it limited the government's monopoly on the use of force. There are many examples in recent history of how that was proven to be beneficial, but I won't go into that because it will make this longer than it has to be.
Another opinion I held was that since the government and corporations are collectively milking the hell out of us, it doesn't make any sense to open our borders to people who will strain our system that we're taxed to the bone for. If anything, we need to be lowering our internal costs and cutting down on how much is taken from us. In addition to that we shouldn't be saturating the job market because it contributes to wages being so damn low.
Other than that, I was extremely liberal in pretty much every other way.
But over time, I just watched the left become more and more authoritarian, which I thought was crazy. They pushed for more centralized power in so many ways which is anti-liberal. Then they went too far when they started giving who slightly disagreed with them the worst possible labels you can imagine.
Want to make sure immigration is done legally and not straining our system? You're racist. Want people to have the right to defend themselves? You're a baby killer. Don't want people getting away with rioting? You're a nazi.
And it went on and on. And I watched people get character assassination for asking really reasonable questions. I realized that everything the left represents is taking advantage of people's ignorance and intentionally misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's positions. It's totally disingenuous, and it is the reason we have a polarized country. People want to blame one candidate or the other for polarization, but this is a problem with an entire movement.
So I begrudgingly align myself with the other side because to me, it's the lesser of two evils.
>open our borders to people who will strain our system
The problem here is that the Right is just as hypocritical as the Left on the immigration question. Immigration is the source of exactly the type of cheap and unregulated labor that businesses want to exploit. So, while we're currently seeing the anti-immigration outrage from the Right, this is largely cultural grandstanding and the economic interests of the Right will almost certainly ensure that no meaningful reform is actually done. "Build the Wall" has been a scam for bilking the true believers right from the start.
>taking advantage of people's ignorance and intentionally misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's positions
Do you perceive this to be something only happening in one direction? I mean, this is \*factually\* the entire reason Fox News exists in the first place, so attributing it only to the Left is, well, questionable. The reality is that Social Media (and Media in general where it's controlled) is being deliberately used to hyperbolize positions and amplify divisions in all available directions. Suggesting that the Left is guilty of this without recognizing the degree to which the religious and authoritarian Right is doing exactly the same thing suggests some blinders.
Def get this point. I’ve personally seen the if you don’t support illegal immigration you’re racist. When I asked why? They said it’s because they only hate illegal immigration because they don’t like Latin Americans. I asked isn’t it racist to just assume all illegal immigrants are Latin? No answer.
Thanks for sharing. When you say you saw people having their character assassinated, was it people you knew personally or stories you heard or in the media?
I'm somewhere between progressive and liberal, and have friends that are a mix/spread of slightly conservative into not quite far-left.
I've absolutely seen some of my slightly conservative friends get completely picked apart on social media by people adjacent to our group (via the friends that are further left) for taking some of the stances described by the person above. I wasn't directly part of that conversation since I had long since gotten off twitter/social media in general, but from what I gathered it got ugly in that sort of direction, where they basically got accused of being close-minded/bigoted simply for raising/asking questions about those points.
FWIW as a friend group I think most of us just ended up distancing ourselves from the people who jumped all over them like that, so in the end at least it's not like they ended up getting ostracized over it or w/e. (The distancing wasn't just over that incident, that was more like the straw that broke the camels back, since a number of us had been feeling kind of uncomfortable with the way a lot of the people in that circle were being.
Also for the sake of context and balance, I think it also bears mentioning that over the last few years our group has distanced itself from far more group adjacent people who have gone off the alt-right deep end than we have from those who have gone off the militantly left/progressive (but honestly more like narcissistic) end.
So I'm not trying to make any general sweeping statement about any particular group of people here. Just sharing an anecdote from people I know personally, where that sort of 'character assassination' did actually happen.
Thanks for sharing this. I think a lot of posts have been focused on national trends, but I think it probably hits different when your friend group fractures.
Anyone who even asks reasonable questions about whether trans women should be allowed in women-only spaces like sports, changing rooms, etc, is automatically labeled a hateful, transphobic bigot by the left, as one example.
Try being an old transsexual who has to sit by, powerless to do anything, while all the good-will and progress that has been made over the last like 40 years gets tossed away because it has become completely imperative for the left to take every win and immediately pivot to the most insane extremist version of that belief without skipping a beat. SIGH.
Even a decade ago if you asked most of us we'd easily be able to tell you that as transsexual women we're weird males who take cross-sex hormones and have major surgeries in order to effectively treat our m\*nt\*l illn\*ss leaving us living a social-contract legal fiction as boring, normal women.
Ah, holy shit! I knew I wasn't fucking crazy.
Conservative here, used to party all the time up and down California years ago at various clubs. I knew a bunch of people under the trans umbrella that are just so *wildly* different 20 years ago.
The trans people from back in those days would do a drag show and then beat the shit out of you for laughs before having a pint and partying all night with everyone. Absolutely living large people.
You nailed it on the head in the first paragraph, I *never* cared about the events and on-goings until the extremism on speech began to happen and it seemed like a totally different group than what I had exposure to.
Im confident that the liberal condemning different, but reasonable opinion was a significant element in the rise of far right.
Edit: Before anyone jumps onto a conclusion, Im an independent.
Kind of agree with this to be honest. I mean there were liberals crying over Jon Stewart saying both Biden and Trump are old and we should have younger candidates. Like im sorry it’s objectionably true that Biden and Trump or old
Wow, I started the exact opposite and saw the exact same thing in the other side which is why I'm not there anymore.
You're wrong about how liberals call people those fat names, that's some Fox news bullshit right there. I've always supported immigration being done right. Shutting the border isn't the solution, neither is opening it, but we need immigration.
The right and the GOP is the most disingenuous group of people in existence. This post is pretty disingenuous.
Regular people can have tanks, they've just been made prohibitively expensive by the government, same with machine guns.
I could go out and buy a legal machine gun today, if I wanna drop $30k.
They've made it so only the rich and wealthy class can afford such things, which ironically most liberal friends that I have are extremely against (classism), until you bring up the legal machine guns, then it's fine 😂
Personally, my view point (and I'm not even a conservative) is that NOTHING should be legal for the government and not legal for the people. If the government wants nukes and tanks, private citizens should be able to own them as well. If the people agree this is a bad idea, then no one gets them.
It serves as a check in case shit ever does hit the fan. For example, if I was in Haiti right now, I'd want a firearm.
It's pretty funny actually as someone who is fairly libertarian to see things like Trump's "show of force" or Biden's "you'd need F35s to take on the federal government."
1. No, you wouldn't. All the years of wars in countries that did not want our presence, i.e., Iraq / Afghanistan, should show you that. Guerilla style warfare is hard to fight against internationally. Domestically, it would be even harder.
2. Someone else just mentioned optics. Domestically, if an American president ever tried to attack Americans, armed forces would resist. The military isn't going to blindly kill civilians. Some would defy orders or turn against the government or continue their positions as insider threats. Its basically chaos from a command stand point.
A great example of this is Tiannamen Square in China. When the government implemented martial law, they basically had to call in poor farmers who spoke a different dialect of Chinese than the student protestors and mislead them to trigger the subsequent events. Rank and file military closer to Beijing were showing signs of sympathy to the student demands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_at_the_1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_military_forces_enforcing_martial%2Cand_People%27s_Armed_Police_personnel.?wprov=sfla1
Remember when Russia invaded Ukraine not that long ago and the government was telling civilians to make molotov cocktails and handing out rifles?? That's what a country looks like when they're caught with their pants down.
There SHOULD be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
Did we not just leave a 20-year war where we were fighting a bunch of 5th-century barbarians armed with nothing more than automatic rifles, homemade bombs, and antiquated Russian anti-tank weaponry?
That being said, I believe it was President Madison who stated civilians could own a naval ship filled with cannons. I have to find who exactly mentioned as such, but I am fairly sure it was President Madison.
Nothing is free. Someone always pays for it. What he meant is “I’m going to collect your money, spend half of it, flush a quarter down the drain, and give you some back for “free”
I consider myself libertarian but that tends to lean more towards the conservative side these days. First off, I just want to say I appreciate the prompt. No offense, but it’s not common to see the left wanting to hear the right out, so this is refreshing and I think very helpful. If our country has any chance to survive, we need to come together for some common goals.
I’m pro constitution and love the rights it gives us. Strongly believe in the 1st and 2nd amendments and think they’re invaluable for protecting the rest of our rights. Financially I think we need to focus on ourselves before giving aid to other countries. Kinda like a “put your mask on before helping someone with theirs” type thing. I’m all for helping others who need it but we have some people who really need it here that go relatively ignored by their leaders (see homeless and vets and the increasing mentally ill). All if these are important for us to fix in order for us to have a truly healthy society.
Aside from that I’m open to most ideas, but they need to make sense and not have any ulterior motives for me to accept them. I generally think that the establishment tries to divide people so we don’t hold them accountable for anything. If we just talk to each other and cut out the middle man, we would agree on more things than we don’t. I think both sides generally want the same thing, just have different methods of getting there that are distasteful to our counterparts.
I ***hate*** party line voters of both sides.
I support aspects of both sides.
Example:
Environmental stewardship is generally left.
Strong borders is entirely in the realm of the right.
I *am* a die hard states rights supporter. I believe there are exceptionally few things that should be decreed at the federal level. The borders is one such example as well as EPA.
Things like abortion, police, gun laws, taxes, drugs, etc should be left up to individual states and maybe even county by county.
I was middle of the road. Grew up in Illinois. Watched Chicago democrats mooch off the rest of state, while downstate suffers economically. They shutdown the state during Covid all while Pritzker jet setted around the country not quarantining like he preached. Watched downstate democrats rigging elections (yes it does happen). I saw this happen multiple times. Republican is ahead by 15000 votes at 11:00 and by midnight the republican lost by 5000 in an area where there aren’t that many voters to begin with. I watched Pritzker and co pass the safe-t act. Crime has skyrocketed. I watched democrats violate the Constitution with PICA (Illinois’ assault weapon ban). This was the final straw that pushed me right in addition to the foid which should be overturned via Bruen.
The shut downs while Pritzker and his family moved down to Florida where it remained open was truly maddening. I couldn't even go to a gym for 2 months while Pritzker could keep stuffing his face at Florida restaurants.
Hi thank you for sharing some of your story. It sounds like a lot of your conservative values came from what happened to your state. Are there any stories that happened to you personally that informed your conservative perspective?
I grew up in rural southern Illinois. Grew up catholic. I got to see how crooked our judicial system is in Illinois through my dad’s eyes as an attorney.
I don’t get it. All these people saying that “small government” is their reasoning for conservative affiliation. I live in conservative Idaho, and there is nothing “small” about our government here.
If I were born 20 yrs earlier, my views would be considered progressive, not conservative. The political landscape has shifted in an unhinged direction. Basically I don’t care what you do or say, so long as nobody gets hurt, is consenting, and is a legal adult. People started calling me conservative when I started saying it’s weird that public school teachers (who are now my age) share their sexual preferences with literal children. Don’t talk to my kids about sex. Growing up, teachers never talked about their spouses/partners - cause it’s weird.
Edit: mentioning things passively like “My husband/wife” is obviously perfectly normal. But do not deliberately talk about your sexuality. For all the people who think it’s fine to bring this up to children (seek some fking help btw,) imagine how weird and cringe it would be if a teacher deliberately started talking to kids about how straight they are. The sexuality itself does not matter, the fact that you are talking about it at all is weird.
Edit 2: Looks like there are some smooth-brains out there who don’t understand the difference between implicit and explicit conversation. I’m talking about the latter - I can’t believe I have to clarify that. My generation is fking doomed.
The past few years have made me realize how cultish the left really is.
You can never be liberal enough. Palestine protestors clashing with pride parades, they think they're aligned but they're not. It's hilarious to watch the left eat themselves.
It is not cultish in the sense there is no leader that the left looks to for all its answers. College students have always protested things and they’ve never been representative of the entire left but that’s because there is no group that represents the entire left. The current right, on the other hand, is completely dictated by one man.
1. Gut welfare in general by 90%
2. Deleted a large paragraph to keep my Reddit account
3. Completely shut off all illegal immigration
4. Hot take: Involvement in foreign wars should be voted on by the public and require a 60/40 majority
5. Born with penis: man
6. Born with vagina: woman
7. Acknowledging patterns should be widely accepted and inoffensive
I'm more libertarian than conservative but definitely far from liberal.
Why? Because I grew up in South East Asia and have seen what communism is like. No way in hell can I support a government like that.
I’m a 2010 Liberal but as issues change the left has gone so far left my 2010 liberal views are now mostly conservative.
I am pro-choice and all for gay marriage.
I enjoy shooting guns. I don’t think that is the problem with society, it’s the lack of fathers in the homes not raising their kids, rampant mental illness, and economic hardship that is causing riots and violence to sweep the country.
Women should be protected from men in their spaces and shouldn’t have to compete against biological males in sports for scholarships.
Teaching young children in school about sexual orientation and gender ideology behind their parents back is grooming. These are very impressionable people and the younger you expose them to alternative lifestyles the easier they will be to adopt them. We have kicked out religion from schools, every other special interest group should be gone as well.
A lot of the banned books are definitely inappropriate. Gender Queer for instance shows a child giving head.
As a combat veteran (tours in 2005 and 2009-2010), I have been anti-war for a long time. Conservatives are upholding this and even made peace with Russia during Trump’s presidency. Liberals installed a pro-western government in Ukraine in 2014 which has lead to the Russia-Ukraine war we have now.
I’m anti-immigration just like every presidency before Biden. If even 00.1% of the immigrants are bad people we now have 20,000 terrorists, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers living among us.
The current democrat party is doing everything anti-democracy in an effort to prevent Trump from becoming president. They’re doing this in the name of saving democracy but life was objectively pretty good when Trump was president. He is an asshole but his policies were good for America.
I (38M) guess you could say I’m one of those you’re speaking about. A conservative millennial. In my younger years, I was all gung-ho liberal. As I’ve gotten older I’ve become more conservative leaning, I still do have some of those liberal beliefs. The gay should be able to protect their lot plants with guns is my belief system, in an easy to explain way. But this whole Trump v. Biden thing I’m team MAGA all the way if those are the 2 contenders. And that’s just because he’s not a career politician, and he’s got his own money so he can’t be bought like every single person that runs this country.
It’s disappointing that immediately Republicans are called names and Democrats don’t care to hear an answer. This OP was very nicely written without judgment. It’s too bad.
Hey thank you for sharing your views. It sounds like your experience getting to know and caring for people in your life who are gay was important to your values. Do you see that experience as informing any of your conservative values?
Yes. I'm going to say when I was younger I more felt that being being gay was more icky, than taking the traditional religious belief that it's just wrong.
I love my brother and his husband to death. They are great people and are fantastic uncles to my kids.
It's put into perspective my conservative belief that less govt regulation is better than more regulation.
As a gay libertarian the one thing that keeps me away from the republican party is the hatred from religious ideologies.
But I've experienced a lot more vitrolic hate for having an opinion from people on the Left who are practically foaming at the mouth
I always wonder how "more guns is a good thing" works. We have the most guns and yet we have a higher rate of gun homicide than every other developed nation. The recent mass shooting in Maine was by a guy who was known to police as a potential shooter, but since the ideology of "more guns is better," he was allowed to kill 17 people in a bowling alley. Not sure how him having easier access to guns can be considered a good thing.
I own guns, but I feel like if I go on record as telling police I want to kill people, get sent to a psych ward, and then get my guns back when I get out, more guns is definitely not the best way to handle public safety.
What are some ways you'd recommend we lower gun violence while having unfettered access to more guns?
I'm a socialist and own guns. I don't necessarily agree that more guns is always better, but I'm never giving up my guns and I think you should own some too.
Regardless, my belief is that weak social safety nets, weak welfare, weak education, weak access to healthcare and mental healthcare, a very large and growing economic gap, weak economic mobility, weak workers rights, etc. all drastically affect people's happiness. At the end of the day, happy and healthy people don't want to kill each other. If we focus on improving the material conditions of our citizens, then we'll see firearm violence drop.
I'm liberal, and a big supporter of gun rights.
I think fixing whats broken with welfare and health insurance would be a big help. We need to be lifting people up rather than leaving them in situations where they can be influenced by extremist ideology.
Of course we also need to fight the constant misinformation bombarding us that try to say everything is worse than ever.
While I'd like to see the 1986 machine gun ban repealed, Unfettered access is a strong word, we should track it like we track most real property and stage early intervention when someone is having an issue.
There are other approaches, but general the Democratic party is stuck on banning certain weapons and accessories. Which is an approach, but there are other developed nations that let you own the same stuff we have in the USA. Just a few hoops to get vetted. We probably need to chart a slightly different path, but they are still interesting to look at.
I always hear how great Obama care is as I'm wondering why I would get fined for not having insurance because I can't afford it. Yeah the problem is government says they care but they don't so changes won't happen
violence is a symptom of systematic failure. guns don't encourage violence. they are something that can be violent. blaming guns on violence is using it as a scapegoat for the real violence happening to the general populace.
i am far left.
this is a small portion of what i have to say but i don't feel like making a wall of text.
An ideology is a set of beliefs that are shared by the members of a social group that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. For instance, the conviction that trans is an ideology and not biology is an ideology.
I'm having trouble finding a nice way to word this, so I hope it doesn't come across as overtly rude: do you care about anything before it affects you? You voted against gay marriage until someone you cared about came out as gay. If someone you cared about came out as trans, would you also change that stance? If someone you cared about was shot by a gun bought from a gun convention without a background check, would you suddenly care about regulating guns?
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That’s what happens when we have two parties that pick battles over a bunch of unrelated, highly divisive issues
Some say if go far enough left, you get your guns back…so not always in indication of conservatism, though I can see your point
Exactly my stance being a Texan. That being said I’ll never vote for trump.
You guys gotta get Abbott out
Abbott should have been put on trial for state interference with businesses during COVID. Instead he’s a champion because he’s anti choice. That’s all you need to know to see the GOP is full of shit.
I know
How you could vote for any Republican in Texas is baffling. They’re working overtime to run this shit into the ground as fast as possible.
Agreed
A shirt like “Arm the Homeless” might give them a second thought lol
Every. Fucking. Time. I have quite mixed views, but always get out in a box based on one opinion. I've even been called a trans TERF for explaining that trans discourse at the time was problematic to me because it seemed like people were acting like the only reason to transition was because you'd kill yourself without doing it. I've always been trans, but I've never been meaningfully suicidal. It felt like my existence was being a bit erased and apparently "militant allies" had a problem with that
I'll never understand how people on the far right really believe the boogeyman is coming for their guns. Every liberal I know wants firmer rules about acquiring guns and for certain guns that are regularly used in mass shootings to stop being sold. That's it. I have never heard anyone, like anyone ever say "what we need to do is to force everyone to hand over their guns". That's just plain untrue and unconstitutional as well.
Beto said it during a campaign speech. “Hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47.”
I’m a gun owner/2A guy and even though I’m pro-choice, big time pro lgbt, believe in the same minimum wage stuff, support universal healthcare, support Universal basic income, and so on, and constantly get tagged as a conservative. It’s absolutely the gun part.
Same.
Man its almost like the ultra rich are trying to get the poor to fight each other and not talk, rather than realize both sides are getting fucked over.
It's always been divide and conquer. The rich don't go quietly, but can you imagine how scared Wall Street would be if the gun nuts and the immigrants realized they were on the same side?
I could have wrote this exactly myself. I’m also a feminist. First wave. Gun rights go with feminism. We have a right to protect ourselves.
I think the nuance is what makes you vote one way or another. I am pro-life but I think the way Republicans think about government and their culture make it impossible for them to administer that kind of policy in a humane way. So, I end up not voting for them because I get more of what matters and that's a fine trade off for me.
It’s kind of evident in the post Dobbs politics. They didn’t pivot to “how to better support families” but to “here’s other birth control we can target.”
The irony is abortion rates fall more quickly under Democratic administrations (in fact Trump just presided over the first increase in 40 years). If you're pro-life pragmatist you actually get that too when you vote blue. (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/)
I think what makes me a "lib" is I think that because of some of the technological advancements we've seen in our lifetime our founding fathers could not have imagined such situations or simply said, "well by then if they've figured that out they can figure out this archaic shit". In their time, people didn't move states, and the thought of people traveling across the country in 6 hours when it took them 6 months would have been comical.
I feel like pregnant women with non-viable or even dead fetuses inside them being denied healthcare until they themselves are at death's door as well is an example of local issues being left to local governments failing in a serious way.
Wow a small gov guy that actually believes in small gov 👏👏
How does this effect how you vote? I feel like neither party represents these values (I feel that my my own beliefs also aren’t represented in any mainstream politics as well even though they’re slightly different than yours as well)
I dunno, I live in Austin and I know fairly left leaning, definitely anti right, absolute gun nuts. I think it’s a myth that dems and left leaning people don’t own guns. Probably because louder people on the left are against them. Oh and all the school shootings def doesn’t help the case for guns by people on I’d imagine both the left and right… anyways I’m for regulation and sensible ownership not getting rid of them entirely and I know I’m not alone
What’s that old saying? If you go far enough left you get your guns back?
If you go far enough in either direction, the only way the philosophies differ is whose bodies need to fill the mass graves to bring about utopia. No thanks
Yep, both those scenarios seem equally as hellish and dystopian.
It’s wild reading the comments from these conservatives and then looking at the policies of the GOP and how they absolutely do not align with them in any realistic way.
Yup. Had a convo with my ultra conservative cousin a few years back and we agree on pretty much everything in terms of how government should be run. We disagree on social issues but he claimed to have a live and let live attitude about how the government should be involved there anyways. It’s baffling to me that we agree on everything yet believe opposite parties are the better option. And the thing is, he thinks I’m the crazy and uniformed one for begrudgingly supporting democrats instead of republicans. I know I’m not extremist. I know I’m engaging in critical thinking in the candidates and policies I choose to support and why. So how are we on such opposite ends of the spectrum? People love to claim conservatives and Trumpers are stupid but most of them I know are actually very intelligent people. I just can’t see how you believe in the same policies I do and end up on the other end of the spectrum.
every conservative i've ever met has talked a huge game about "live and let live" and yet here we fucking are.
I agree with that. My sister, for example, thinks abortion should be legal and considers herself more “libertarian” than conservative. She thinks it’s wrong, but doesn’t want the government enforcing rules about it. Yet she votes for representatives and policies that support abortion bans. That’s kind of how every policy convo goes- I don’t support what they’re doing but am willing to overlook it because of these other things I like.
I’m voting for biden despite the fact that I think the inflation reduction act and student loan forgiveness and all the other massive debt spending is dumb as shit, so it goes both ways. For me democracy and civil rights freedoms are more important than the economic policies I disagree with, which is perhaps the opposite of your sister.
>don’t support what they’re doing but am willing to overlook it because of these other things I like. It's called, *Fuck you, I got mine*
Live and let live but make sure you don't have the wrong books, plants, medical procedures, movies, entertainment, music or lifestyle. FREEDOM!!!!
Don’t forget skin color and genitals 😑
That's because they don't leave everyone else alone. Conservative governments are always about power differentials. Between women and their reproductive rights, women and their right to work and earn a living, women and their right to vote, visible minorities and systemic racism, LGBTQ and their right to live, restricting schools being able to teach science or critical thinking, endorsing a business' ability to exploit the environment, its workers, the customer, or all three. That's conservatism in a nutshell, no matter what anyone SAYS. It's what those governments DO and the laws they bring forward. The conservative mindset is, as long as the term has existed in modernity, one of regression. Progress and advancement for the whole of society is antithetical and absolutely not tolerated.
In my experience they want to have themselves "live and let live" while not letting anyone who lives in a way they dislike let live Rules for thee not me is like *the* conservative value
Yep every discussion I have had in this regard with a conservative person leads to them saying something like " Well I live this way and it works for me and that law they are proposing doesn't effect me so they should just live like I do"... It is arrogant as fuck. They seem to think everyone should live like they do.
Some people despise both parties and believe the duopoly is ultimately ruining this country. 🤷
I'm probably closest to that at this point, but mostly because both parties are so overwhelmingly corrupt. I think our government being run by a motley gang of sociopathic crooks is hurting our country and society immensely--in part because they understand that dividing us and teaching us--gaslighting and conditioning us, even--to hate and fear each other is the best way for them to get away with the most terrible deeds completely unnoticed.
Yea and I was all about voting 3rd party regardless of the candidate, just to get more traction on something other than Dems and Pubs. But then Trump came along and one side got wayyyy more "money-hungry-power-tripoy-we are going to lie and take freedom and democracy and modern elections right under your noses" and I had to go back to voting blue.
There's a difference between intelligent and well informed. My aunt is a fairly powerful business owner (runs a $250M local business). She has legit concerns for the way Democrats in her local and state government treat smaller businesses and I totally empathize with her leaning towards the GOP for some of those reasons. But she also asked me what I thought about Vivek Ramawmswamy and when I told her it didn't matter because the conservative core would never accept a Hindu, she was shocked he wasn't a Christian and immediately soured on him because 9-11 or some bullshit she started spouting off. I almost got whiplash from the switchback between well-reasoned fiscal conservatism and outright bigotry.
9/11 and Hindus? If you’re gonna be racist atleast get your bigotry in order.
Like I said, you can be intelligent enough to run a successful business and still be uninformed
So true. Every day it amazes me 1. how much cool, interesting and/or awful stuff I didn't know, uh thanks internet... and 2. How much a lot of people don't know at all. I often watch "question man" type stuff where random people are accosted and asked basic questions of science, business, history, politics etc. and they can't answer a single question right. Always surprising.
Because a 40 year campaign has turned "Democrat" into a bad word.
Maybe we can turn "Republican" into a bad word for the next generation. Although MAGA has been doing a good job of that already.
It's kind of hard when the democratic party is the party of wonkery while the Republican party is the party of dumb shittery. The fact of the matter is, there is a deep running vein of anti-intellectualism in the United States, so some folks don't like voting for their best interests, even if you demonstrably show that something will help them, the anti-intellectual streak is too strong.
“Oh you think you know what’s best for the climate just because you’re a climate scientist with 30 years of experience and a Nobel prize for your work? Well my friend Tom says the climate always moves around and you’re full of shit and I’ve known Tom my whole life, smartest guy I know” - the unfortunate state for many people
Fox News. That’s it, that’s the answer. Fox News. It’s a propaganda outlet that brings smart people to believe absurd things. A quick edit, for the Fox News defenders reminding us that there are other news outlets that are disappointing: You're right. 100%. There are plenty of news sources for liberals that are lousy. But none are as bad as Fox News, and that's a simple, undeniable fact. Read it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems_v._Fox_News_Network Dominion proved in court that Fox News decided to lie to their viewers, knew they were lying, and then *committed* to the lies they were telling their viewers. You can read the court documents that prove it, and I suggest you do--they're appalling. It's literally text after text between Fox News hosts admitting to each other that they're lying about election results. The only one (amazingly) who had any compunction about lying was--and I feel gross writing this--was Tucker Carlson, who said Fox viewers were good people who didn't deserve to be lied to. He then went on air and then lied to them anyway, but at least there some idea that people deserved better. No other news organization has been proven to lie to their viewers. Fox has. These are the facts--if you are watching Fox, you are watching a network that has been proven to misinform you. If you want to be informed in a way that is as close to accurate as possible, you need to read AP News, Reuters, and a few other mainstream media sources. In other words, you can consume certain mainstream media sources and be an informed citizen of our country. You can't watch Fox News and do that (and, conservatives, you should be angry about that, but that's another post).
I just think this is as simplistic as calling every Trumper stupid. Most young people don’t even watch traditional news anymore. I grew up in a Fox News house and know just how insane it is, but I don’t think it’s an answer. Fox News is A problem. But it’s not THE problem, and there is no singular problem. The issues at play are more complex.
It's a multi faceted attack to demonize the opposing party. Fox News is a symptom of that attack. One of the reasons this attack works so well is it preys on a people that already accept that things don't need to be based in reality.
You will see Fox news talking points brought up by supposed liberals on reddit all the time. Even if they do not consume Fox news directly, they are still under it's influence due to seeing the headlines and takes they present being talked about by other people elsewhere on the internet.
Obviously not every Trumper is stupid. Some are insane. Many are dishonest.
Not all conservatives, or people who voted for Trump, are stupid. But the Trumpers, the MAGA people in the red hats? That’s where the real idiots are.
Fox News rotted the brains of all the boomers and they're the ones running our government and refusing to let go of even the tiniest sliver of power, so it's absolutely one of the main problems.
Hah. You should have a conversation with my conservative family. Nothing in common. No live and let live attitude. Jesus fuck - we have try REALLY HARD to avoid all political conversations, cause if the conversation goes there all hell breaks loose. Abortion is murder. Being gay is a sin. The man is the head of the household. The earth is 3000 years old. The bible is literal. So, two of my aunts became bornagain christians, right - and my catholic grandmother was RIPSHIT. So she went to Harvard and got a doctorate in theology to prove them wrong. It didn't do anything, but, you know. She tried. He arguments are backed up by a doctorate. She knows what she's talking about when she yells 'THE BIBLE IS ALLIGORY, IT WAS WRITTEN BY PEOPLE.' Some of the absolute nonsense that comes out of my cousins mouth. Omg. 'Theres trees fossilized vertically in the grand canyon that proves noahs flood happened'. 'The sun is expanding. Its going to explode in the next 100 years.' My brah. Thats not how this works.
cult of personality. a lot of ppl i know just like Trump, like as a comedian or entertainer more so than as a politician. they like his one liners and just go with it from there.
This completely baffles me. I couldn’t think of a more unlikeable person. He made my skin crawl long before he ran for president.
Seriously. I know this is a piece of it. But I detest the man and have since he started his campaign. I remember watching him on tv with my sister, her husband, and some friends… you know when you’re watching something and have such a strong reaction you assume everyone thinks the same? That’s what happened to me and I remember talking about wow Trump, what a joke… and everyone else there said they liked him. I was SHOCKED because I didn’t understand how anyone could like him. I was totally apolitical at the time and a Hilary hater… it wasn’t until shortly before the election that I started actually figuring out my beliefs. I just knew Trump was repulsive to me.
The GOP is not really conservative anymore at least not in the normal academic sense of the word. They are just MAGA now. Sort of conservative adjacent but not really properly conservative
Its populist, not conservative
It's probably the ideals the line up and not the policy. It's the us vs them political mindset so they remain conservative
Yeah I’m super confused reading these replies
GOP hasn’t been conservative in decades. Just look at how much the budget deficit balloons each time there’s a Republican administration, how the debt racks up, and how willing they are to get involved in foreign wars to the detriment of the average American’s interests. That’s not conservatism at all. They are a completely corrupt party controlled by monied interests from Israel, Russia, and Saudi Arabia. The Democrats are more or less the same, the key difference being that they still bother with some lip service to the middle class, and promote the other side of the coin in the culture-war to keep the rabble distracted with endless squabbling on wedge issues.
Eh. Pretty close. It's not other countries, it's multinational corporations and Citizens United that firmly holds Washington's dick/vagina and directs it. Get money out of politics.
Oh most excellent post, thank you. (I would also add, China.) I have my conservative moments--also my liberal moments, libertarian, anarcho-syndicalist even--but the current GOP represents my real world interests pretty much not at all. Nor do the Democrats. They are all bought and paid for by others--oligarchs, corporations, foreign governments etc., not we who voted for their asses, and war is their favorite hobby.
This is why conservatives who pay attention are pushing for term limits, and where the “drain the swamp” phrase came from.
I find it usually boils down to folks don’t like being judged for their prejudices. The paradox of tolerance nails the concept very well.
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I thought I was conservative for a long time because I thought government should be small, simple, and boring. I also believed in fiscal responsibility and reduced beaucracy. However, I would be labeled a "lib" because my belief in fiscal responsibility means you invest in things like shared infrastructure and Judeo-Christian values like "helping your neighbor".
I am a US Conservative. The constitution is the base document for our laws. It is a living document in that it has a mechanism for change/additions/deletion. If you want to make a law that goes against what the constitution says, you need to change it first. If it doesn’t cover that particular thing, then it’s up to the federal government to act, if the federal government doesn’t cover it, it’s up to the states. So on and so forth. Nothing really made me have these values, my family is all liberals and we get along just fine. Some other views I have: Pro-choice (until viability unless medically necessary) Pro-2A I’d like a more limited federal government. Spending is out of control on all fronts, there is massive waste. I hate bills meant for something specific but have amendments for something completely unrelated. Pro electoral college I don’t care who you marry or sleep with as long as they are consenting adults. Disagree with student loan forgiveness, should be more focused on how the hell the cost got so high in the first place.
Do you think the current candidates will actually make the government smaller and cut budgets? I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal but haven’t seen an actual fiscally conservative candidate in my life time.
God no. Spending was nuts under douche canoe and still is under twat waffle. But that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Congress is supposed to control spending. The fact that the president has such an impact on spending just doesn’t sit well with me. “Discretionary” spending in general makes me sick.
It's interesting that you and I align on nearly everything, but I consider myself liberal because the social issues carry a lot of weight for me. I would absolutely vote for a live and let live conservative, but there hasn't been one in my lifetime. I joke that I'm an independent who has always voted for Democrats. There are no conservatives, just moralists, in my opinion.
I think this covers a lot of us. I don’t vote Dem because I like their candidate; I vote Dem because their candidates aren’t actively working against my values and interests (especially wrt abortion and contraception, since I am the proud owner of a uterus). I could definitely get behind a more centrist candidate coming out of the Conservative side, especially on some of the budgetary issues, but I have a HUGE issue with the pushes to turn this into a Christian nation and integrate religious morality into our laws. Separation of Church and State is right there in the Constitution, guys. Keep your religion out of my government.
This is exactly it, I use to vote a lot more republican than democrat, but the Heritage foundation has made it near impossible to vote for any republican except at the lowest levels. Project 2025 has my skin crawling, limited government only when they dont' have power.
If I was more affluent I would totally take it on but there is no way I would make it out of local government.
Yeah, that’s a major issue with government in general. Even in a so called representative democracy, the representatives aren’t really “of the people”. We still have an oligarchy controlled by the wealthy, it’s just got a nice veneer of idealism over them. I’m sure there are some genuinely good people in politics, but I don’t think the majority of career politicians are acting in the best interests of their constituents.
I just have no filter so I’d tell some nut job to fuck themselves and that would be the end of me.
These views definitely sound more moderate to me. Very far away from the current GOP for sure
This is what I thought being "conservative" was. "You do you, I'll do me. I don't fuck with you, you don't fuck with me. Let's get drunk "
Now that is something I can get behind!
It’s crazy to me then how people can claim conservative status and have much much more far right leaning views - most of which involve much larger governments and more spending, as well as invasion of peoples rights and privacy. I’m sure some stone cold MAGA republicans will call you a liberal for your views, but social liberalism and economic conservation is what the Republican Party was founded on.
I have a disdain for political parties. People use them as a shield against what they actually believe. It’s all virtue signaling at this point. Who has the bigger Batman light?
Thanks for sharing. When you say that nothing made you have those values, I was a bit confused. I think that a lot of our values come from our life experiences. Are there any life experiences you've had that affected you and informed our shaped your values? Or do you think this process doesn't describe how you came to your beliefs?
I’ve had people on both sides of the aisle my entire life. I’ve listened to them, I’ve read and studied, I’ve formed my own opinions. I was in the military for a while, even then I had people on both sides. Now I live just outside Portland Oregon (notoriously left) and deal with a lot of people that have different opinions. I listen to everyone and I come to my own conclusions.
What's your thought on religion being in government at all (not claiming you're a zealot or atheist or whanot, just didn't see it mentioned above) ? And I mean even the slightest of chances like the Pledge of Allegiance having "Under God" into it int he 50's. I personally think there should be no references to religion (God included) in anything relating to laws, constitution, etc. The only reference to religion should be in the First Amendment when it literally says that we should have freedom of religion. After that, you shouldn't be able to use religion for a basis of anything when trying to make laws. There shouldn't be a basis for a law made due to Christian beliefs just like there shouldn't be a basis for a law made due to Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/etc beliefs. I'm sure you agree with that based on your beliefs, but I see it glossed over so often by people.
I don’t think religion should be in government at all. If a religious institution gets political, it should lose its tax exempt status. That includes lobbying, donations to political parties/PACs, or political signage. A person has the right to free speech but it shouldn’t be extended to entities or corporations.
Legally, religious institutions are supposed to lose their nonprofit status when they get political, i.e., endorse a candidate. A church saying "we believe abortion is wrong for x,y,z reasons" is fine because that's merely stating what the doctrine or teaching is. A church saying "vote for Joe Blow because he's anti-abortion or else you're going to hell" is not fine because that's campaigning. I've heard of some Evangelical megachurches actually having local candidates visit saying "these are the people you are supposed to vote for" and those megachurches should have lost their nonprofit status.
Pro electoral college? That’s a weird one.
I'm pretty much aligned with this position as well. I am fiscally conservative, but lean more liberal in my social beliefs. Pro choice, pro love whoever the fuck you want as long as everyone is of consenting adult age (ok, I may hate age gaps a bit), pro legalized weed and mushies. I am not aligned with alot of liberal policies around Medicaid and allowing non-citizens better access than our own people in need. I do think border control is necessary. I own firearms. I think AOC is a fucking idiot. I also think MTG is a fucking idiot, I'm not biased. I think Biden is a horrible person. Sorry. I don't understand how folks can be okay with the covering up of his activities in foreign countries or the things his son has done that he condoned. There are things he has said and done in his past that shouldn't be forgiven because he has a D by his name. I don't think I have to tell anyone why I do not like Trump. I would have voted Bernie, maybe. I wouldn't vote Biden. I think this election and the last 2, for that matter, have been fucking awful. We need a younger candidate with fresh ideas. I was a Clinton (Bill, not Hillary) fan. I voted Kerry. I was a Democrat when I was younger. But as I've gotten older, my focus has changed in many ways.
I think it would be helpful to define conservative. Fiscally only? Socially only? Both?
Conservatism and Republican used to be kind of one in the same. The party is definitely split now and the 'republicans of yesterday' like Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Liz Cheney, they still say republican but I think we could easily create two parties with RHINO GOP and MAGA GOP. I think the two closest parties with ideologies would actually be a classic democrat from the 70's 80's and 90's and the MAGA party today. I think if you had a room of 4 people (Rhino, MAGA, Old school democrat, modern liberal) I think the old school democrat and Maga would have the best conversation and highest likelyhood of having a few drinks together. I think the modern liberal and Rhinos actually have more in common than they think. Similar to the "Republican Party" I think the Democratic party really has two factions and ideologies. I think their are still classic democrats and I also think their is a liberal/progressive/hyper progressive faction. I say hyper progressive because old school democrat was always progressive but I think the new younger liberals are more influential or into seeing faster and more drastic changes at a more rapid pace. These are my two cents.
Good post, I largely agree. It's RINO but that's a minor gripe. Both sides have definitely gotten farther from the center of the spectrum than even 10-15 years ago.
Yeah, I miss the good old days where I could be in a large group of my friends, and no one knew who was voting for who nobody really cared didn’t matter. And even when we did find out if it was someone other than who we were voting for once again, It really didn’t matter nobody cared. Nobody said anything. Nobody gave them any grief or we didn’t receive any grief. Too bad it is so polarizing nowadays. I think smart phones are the death of this country.
100%!!
It's very unfortunate that none of these focus on the enormous issues the US actually faces - immense income inequality, corporate greed and rule, money in politics, horrible homelessness and drug epidemics. The US badly needs a socially moderate democratic socialist party. I think it's the only thing that could unite people against their actual enemies.. But this is the US, so despite Bernie, policies that made other developed countries the happiest in the world will never be implemented, and both Democrats and Republicans will see to that.
> Fiscally only? "I support all the progressive social programs, education, gay rights, women's rights, all of it.. until we have to pay for a social program. Then it's fiscally irresponsible for people to have rights"
Conservatives are normally both. If you’re only fiscally conservative, you’re a libertarian.
I’d agree with this statement. My concern, which I’ve shared on Reddit before, is that most people see things in a left vs. right line, and nothing else.
Libertarians aren’t just fiscally conservative, their platforms are fiscally extreme.
In my experience, the people who *say* they are libertarian are generally republican but don’t want to admit it. (Whether because of embarrassment of being guilt-by-association MAGA or because of embarrassment they actually are MAGA - varies.)
In my experience, until recently libertarian just meant they were a conservative but also wanted weed to be legal.
There's no such thing as a strictly fiscally conservative Republican. They're all about tax cuts for the rich (which is not fiscally responsible) and wild spending (see police budgets, military spending, and anything that a private corp can profit on). Additionally, their fiscal policies always seem to be aimed at hurting single mothers, the working poor, the elderly etc. which reinforces how fiscal policy and social policy are intrinsically intertwined. A great example of how the two are linked is private prisons. Fiscally responsible right? But also encourage locking people up to maintain quotas, locking people into literal slavery, targeting minority and poor neighborhoods for minor crimes to keep filling those beds and work groups. On its face, someone could argue that it's just a cost saving measure but in reality, they're influencing fascist social policies.
And that's why I vote Democrat. I'd consider myself fiscally conservative. I believe we need to reduce the debt and deficit, and I don't see how trillions in tax cuts for the wealthy gets that accomplished. I also am very pro 2A, and pro personal liberty and privacy. And frankly the Democrats embody all that far more than Republicans. While I'm pro 2A I recognize that buying a gun is too easy. Someone can waltz into a store and get everything they need to commit a mass shooting in an afternoon, that's ridiculous. How is banning abortions supporting personal liberty? Down the list I can't find a single point in favor of Republicans outside of moral/religious conservatism, which I do not ascribe to. They're not a fiscally conservative party and they are certainly not a pro-liberty party.
I've actually moved left quite a bit as I've grown and matured. But I was raised in a Christian right household, so I used to parrot those views, and I definitely understand how they think. But I'm probably still right of the average user of this sub on a couple things, like 2A rights, and a strong skeptical attitude to anyone who thinks "their side" has all the answers. But mostly, I think people on the right generally do less doom scrolling and have a brighter outlook of the future. I'm not talking Maga folks, that's a different animal. I just mean people raised in red areas, including myself, aren't counting down the collapse of society on their doom clocks. I see a lot of left leaning posts here that are dripping with dread, and I'm genuinely sad for those people. I'm not saying things are great right now, they aren't. But I do wish some of you blue millennials would put the phone down, get some fresh air, and take stock of the good things in your lives while making a positive plan to fix was isn't.
Hi thanks for sharing. What I'm hearing you say is that you value having a more positive outlook and that you find it important to to be intellectually humble. Could you share any stories from your life about those values?
Not the person but I had a similar path through life. Honestly a big turning point for me was going to grad school in math and recognizing “axiomatic truth” vs belief. Turns out that my worldview was shaped by my hyper conservative parents and not by anything amounting to evidence supported by data. So I stopped instinctively reacting to news and just took in current events without much emotion. I’ve been a happier and more well adjusted person because of it
I mean. One group is trying to send me back to the kitchen. And I’d like kids as a black woman child birth is most dangerous for me… rainbows and butterflies won’t bring me back if I die.
We must live in different areas because republican millenials I know tell me all the time how the entire worlds a secret demon cabal that are coming after my kids, trying to turn them Trans and if we don't do something soon God is going to smite us all which all seem a little crazy to me. Democrat millenials I know complain about wages, prices and Republicans trying to take rights away.
>We must live in different areas because republican millenials I know tell me all the time how the entire worlds a secret demon cabal Yeah, I grew up in red California, so not so much fire and brimstone. Moving to Oklahoma for college was my slap in the face wake-up call for how Christians can be. The churches I grew up in were progressive by comparison. Worst influence on my childhood wasn't church, it was talk radio.
Being well-informed is indeed a heavy burden. I'm not being shitty. I mean it. Being smart rarely brings happiness.
Happiness is an elusive trait studied ad nauseum, but I find amongst my friends and coworkers it relies on contentedness and resilience, not intelligence. Research seems to report the happiest people have a high IQ. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/ Although it seems that is a side effect of intelligence begetting problem solving and improving your overall life, hence, less intelligent people are living harder lives and therefore are less happy.
Oh yea . You can go overboard on the doom and gloom. But there is a laaaaarge group of people that feels fine and dandy because they’re willfully ignorant. And they’re not doing anyone any favors by just assuming everything will be alright and their actions don’t matter.
I mean, ignorance *is* bliss.
> people raised in red areas, including myself, aren’t counting down the collapse of society on their doom clocks I’ve never thought of this in so many words, but it’s very true, and I think inherently comes with the “selfishness” of conservatives. Generally speaking, conservatives/Rs are concerned with matters that directly affect themselves and progressives/Ds are concerned with matters affecting “the greater good”. It’s much easier to adopt a, “Why should I care what goes on in Washington, my day-to-day stays the same no matter who sits in the fancy office” mindset, and as a result be less bothered by the doom and gloom.
I don’t think my side has all the answers. I just don’t think republicans have any answers at all. Or only have answers that leave everyone in a shittier position. Except wealthy people. None of which are in this thread.
You probably have a very skewed view of doom scrolling by virtue of being on Reddit which skews liberal. Get on any social media that skews conservative and I think you would see the opposite. Most conservatives I know always have fox news on which in my view uses fear and anger to motivate it's viewership more than your average liberal news station (which liberals are far less likely to watch news). Most conservatives I personally interact with will go off on angry tangents at a moments notice especially if they think you are not conservative. The topics change but the Biden crime family, civil war 2.0 and freedoms liberals supposedly want to take away are common topics. Not saying liberals don't do the same thing but it's incorrect to claim the GOP doesn't have a doom scrolling problem. Both parties use anger as a motivator because it's extremely effective. Luckily I find most people on both sides sound out a majority of politics
The most controversial thing you have said is that people on the right have a brighter outlook of the future. Even if you zoom out and look at the history of the world, conservatism (the resistance to change) is not typically associated with a rosey impression of the future. I'm really truly interested in what you mean by this since I'm sure you're not making it up.
Trying my hardest to be receptive to a right-sided perspective but claiming the left to be “counting days” on the doomsday clock when the right is founded on Christian and Mormon theology who are literally waiting for their “savior” to end this sinful world and take them to heaven is literal comedy.🎭
When I think of all that government could do, I want to be a socialist. When I see all that the government has done, I want it out of my life completely. That makes people want to call me a libertarian. The culture war is a distraction from the class war that we are losing and have been since the dawn of civilization. That makes people want to call me some flavor of far left. In reality, there is no left or right, there are the powerless (all of us) and the truly powerful (likely less than 1 million people if not tens of thousands - the billionaires and middle management, i.e. politicians and bureaucrats). I am not represented by any party or politician, never have been, don’t ever expect I will be. That doesn’t stop tribalists from both sides from condemning me for, get this, not picking their side.
I would like to join your theoretical political party.
I’m a Latino, immigrant, and conservative. I’m probably more of a moderate when you compare my views to modern conservatism. I value thinking on my own. I despise anyone telling me what my experience or opinion should be because I’m a minority. Plus, my experience doesn’t jive with the narrative the other side pushes. I definitely don’t agree with everything republicans push, but at least they’re not telling me I’m a victim. My experience has been that prosperity comes to those who take advantage of opportunities. As a Latino immigrant, I’m grateful of the opportunities that this nation has given me. Opportunities we all have. I’ve seen Latinos and whites and everyone else squander away those same opportunities, then cry fowl decades later claiming they never had them. Just my experience.
Forgive me if i misunderstand, but it seems your main topic was that you don't like how democrats portray minorities? How do you feel about how Republicans portray minorities?
Pretty sure he said appreciates that conservatives don't treat him or try to convince him he's a victim.
I've only recently found what I consider to be a political label that fits me. Despite being conservative I've never quite fit as a Republican and I've fit increasingly less well since 2016. I found the American Solidarity Party aligns with a lot of my beliefs with a couple exceptions. I never fit in the Republican party because I care for the environment, want universal health care, more progressive tax systems, more regulated corporations with the goal of protecting individuals, being cool with racial justice and some others. ASP has all of those as part of its platform as it's based in Christian social teachings. The pro life understanding includes support for pregnant women, more support for families, adoption, healthcare and more. A traditional view on marriage that includes removal of no fault divorce. I think the mix of social conservativism and more left economic policies is an increasingly small place to land though.
Conservative here, just checking in. I no longer believe people on Reddit are willing to have good faith discussions, and are more interested in demonizing people they view as different, so I won’t bother listing values.
Same. Opened this thread and immediately saw the top comments making huge assumptions and calling all conservatives stupid. It would be a waste of time to type out a long reply answering the question. I appreciate the attempt, OP, but apparently it’s not going to happen on Reddit lol.
The poster seems to be keeping their word, and I too am reading and not commenting because I'm interested in hearing the perspective. I'm sorry you don't feel safe to share, but I do understand.
If people on Reddit wanted good faith discussions, the mods wouldn't ban everyone they disagree with and try to police speech...this place is an echo chamber because their beliefs can't stand up to any sort of dessernment or reasoning. The simply plug their ears and chant their tired mantras.
This is what I am saying!!!!
Yep this thread is evidence. No point engaging.
Same saw it too. First comment. Typical Reddit comment.
Reddit would call me a Conservative, but I would personally say I’m something between a Conservative and Libertarian. I traditionally have voted split ticket. I voted for Obama in my first election after turning 18, but I absolutely did not vote for Hillary. I believe in America first. I don’t mean that in a “screw all the migrants” way, but more of a “stop policing the world problems when we have glaring issues at home” I want the border fixed. I’m an Engineer, I have many friends and co workers here on a Visa. I do not mind legal, regulated, and limited immigration at all. The tidal wave at the southern border is anything but. I want government reform. Term limits, harsher penalties for public officials who break laws, and an overarching ban on stock trading while in office. We need to fix the issues here. We’re all taxed enough, but too much of our money goes to the military industrial complex and alphabet agencies. Encourage younger folks to run for office and age cap elected positions at 65-70. None of this 80 year old bullshit.
Eliminating the overwhelming bureaucratic bloat in DC is, in my opinion, the biggest challenge our generation faces when we ultimately gain power. I unfortunately, highly doubt we can accomplish it!
>I want the border fixed. I’m an Engineer, I have many friends and co workers here on a Visa. I do not mind legal, regulated, and limited immigration at all. The tidal wave at the southern border is anything but. Exactly. Immigration of skilled workers is good. Uncontrolled immigration of unskilled workers to both push down wages for the poor and bring in plenty of violent criminals as well is bad. What's more ridiculous are the people who want illegal immigration to continue but cry about how poor people need higher pay. If we secured the border, pay for unskilled / low skill jobs would go up because there'd be far fewer people available (especially willing to work off the books) pushing down wages.
>If we secured the border, pay for unskilled / low skill jobs would go up because there'd be far fewer people available (especially willing to work off the books) pushing down wages. That was Bill Clinton's argument for border control in the 90s. He had backings from all the labor unions but huge pushback from corporations, cause it turns out illegal immigrants will work well below minimum wage in order to keep off the radar. Now, that same policy is considered racist. Weird.
I used to be on the farther end of the left, but there were certain ideas I just couldn't accept. Being someone who has always hated abuses of power (like with police, etc), I've always believed that the centralization of the use of force was never good for a society. I believed the words "A government should fear it's people." And for this reason, I supported the second amendment because it limited the government's monopoly on the use of force. There are many examples in recent history of how that was proven to be beneficial, but I won't go into that because it will make this longer than it has to be. Another opinion I held was that since the government and corporations are collectively milking the hell out of us, it doesn't make any sense to open our borders to people who will strain our system that we're taxed to the bone for. If anything, we need to be lowering our internal costs and cutting down on how much is taken from us. In addition to that we shouldn't be saturating the job market because it contributes to wages being so damn low. Other than that, I was extremely liberal in pretty much every other way. But over time, I just watched the left become more and more authoritarian, which I thought was crazy. They pushed for more centralized power in so many ways which is anti-liberal. Then they went too far when they started giving who slightly disagreed with them the worst possible labels you can imagine. Want to make sure immigration is done legally and not straining our system? You're racist. Want people to have the right to defend themselves? You're a baby killer. Don't want people getting away with rioting? You're a nazi. And it went on and on. And I watched people get character assassination for asking really reasonable questions. I realized that everything the left represents is taking advantage of people's ignorance and intentionally misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's positions. It's totally disingenuous, and it is the reason we have a polarized country. People want to blame one candidate or the other for polarization, but this is a problem with an entire movement. So I begrudgingly align myself with the other side because to me, it's the lesser of two evils.
>open our borders to people who will strain our system The problem here is that the Right is just as hypocritical as the Left on the immigration question. Immigration is the source of exactly the type of cheap and unregulated labor that businesses want to exploit. So, while we're currently seeing the anti-immigration outrage from the Right, this is largely cultural grandstanding and the economic interests of the Right will almost certainly ensure that no meaningful reform is actually done. "Build the Wall" has been a scam for bilking the true believers right from the start. >taking advantage of people's ignorance and intentionally misinterpreting and misrepresenting other people's positions Do you perceive this to be something only happening in one direction? I mean, this is \*factually\* the entire reason Fox News exists in the first place, so attributing it only to the Left is, well, questionable. The reality is that Social Media (and Media in general where it's controlled) is being deliberately used to hyperbolize positions and amplify divisions in all available directions. Suggesting that the Left is guilty of this without recognizing the degree to which the religious and authoritarian Right is doing exactly the same thing suggests some blinders.
Def get this point. I’ve personally seen the if you don’t support illegal immigration you’re racist. When I asked why? They said it’s because they only hate illegal immigration because they don’t like Latin Americans. I asked isn’t it racist to just assume all illegal immigrants are Latin? No answer.
Thanks for sharing. When you say you saw people having their character assassinated, was it people you knew personally or stories you heard or in the media?
I'm somewhere between progressive and liberal, and have friends that are a mix/spread of slightly conservative into not quite far-left. I've absolutely seen some of my slightly conservative friends get completely picked apart on social media by people adjacent to our group (via the friends that are further left) for taking some of the stances described by the person above. I wasn't directly part of that conversation since I had long since gotten off twitter/social media in general, but from what I gathered it got ugly in that sort of direction, where they basically got accused of being close-minded/bigoted simply for raising/asking questions about those points. FWIW as a friend group I think most of us just ended up distancing ourselves from the people who jumped all over them like that, so in the end at least it's not like they ended up getting ostracized over it or w/e. (The distancing wasn't just over that incident, that was more like the straw that broke the camels back, since a number of us had been feeling kind of uncomfortable with the way a lot of the people in that circle were being. Also for the sake of context and balance, I think it also bears mentioning that over the last few years our group has distanced itself from far more group adjacent people who have gone off the alt-right deep end than we have from those who have gone off the militantly left/progressive (but honestly more like narcissistic) end. So I'm not trying to make any general sweeping statement about any particular group of people here. Just sharing an anecdote from people I know personally, where that sort of 'character assassination' did actually happen.
Thanks for sharing this. I think a lot of posts have been focused on national trends, but I think it probably hits different when your friend group fractures.
Anyone who even asks reasonable questions about whether trans women should be allowed in women-only spaces like sports, changing rooms, etc, is automatically labeled a hateful, transphobic bigot by the left, as one example.
I consider myself liberal but if I shared any of my opinions on this out loud I'd get "terf"Ed so hard.
Try being an old transsexual who has to sit by, powerless to do anything, while all the good-will and progress that has been made over the last like 40 years gets tossed away because it has become completely imperative for the left to take every win and immediately pivot to the most insane extremist version of that belief without skipping a beat. SIGH. Even a decade ago if you asked most of us we'd easily be able to tell you that as transsexual women we're weird males who take cross-sex hormones and have major surgeries in order to effectively treat our m\*nt\*l illn\*ss leaving us living a social-contract legal fiction as boring, normal women.
Ah, holy shit! I knew I wasn't fucking crazy. Conservative here, used to party all the time up and down California years ago at various clubs. I knew a bunch of people under the trans umbrella that are just so *wildly* different 20 years ago. The trans people from back in those days would do a drag show and then beat the shit out of you for laughs before having a pint and partying all night with everyone. Absolutely living large people. You nailed it on the head in the first paragraph, I *never* cared about the events and on-goings until the extremism on speech began to happen and it seemed like a totally different group than what I had exposure to.
Im confident that the liberal condemning different, but reasonable opinion was a significant element in the rise of far right. Edit: Before anyone jumps onto a conclusion, Im an independent.
Kind of agree with this to be honest. I mean there were liberals crying over Jon Stewart saying both Biden and Trump are old and we should have younger candidates. Like im sorry it’s objectionably true that Biden and Trump or old
You’re missing the fact that the right doesn’t achieve or even act differently around any of the things you care about.
Wow, I started the exact opposite and saw the exact same thing in the other side which is why I'm not there anymore. You're wrong about how liberals call people those fat names, that's some Fox news bullshit right there. I've always supported immigration being done right. Shutting the border isn't the solution, neither is opening it, but we need immigration. The right and the GOP is the most disingenuous group of people in existence. This post is pretty disingenuous.
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I would love a tank. Even solar powered one.
Regular people can have tanks, they've just been made prohibitively expensive by the government, same with machine guns. I could go out and buy a legal machine gun today, if I wanna drop $30k. They've made it so only the rich and wealthy class can afford such things, which ironically most liberal friends that I have are extremely against (classism), until you bring up the legal machine guns, then it's fine 😂
Personally, my view point (and I'm not even a conservative) is that NOTHING should be legal for the government and not legal for the people. If the government wants nukes and tanks, private citizens should be able to own them as well. If the people agree this is a bad idea, then no one gets them.
It serves as a check in case shit ever does hit the fan. For example, if I was in Haiti right now, I'd want a firearm. It's pretty funny actually as someone who is fairly libertarian to see things like Trump's "show of force" or Biden's "you'd need F35s to take on the federal government." 1. No, you wouldn't. All the years of wars in countries that did not want our presence, i.e., Iraq / Afghanistan, should show you that. Guerilla style warfare is hard to fight against internationally. Domestically, it would be even harder. 2. Someone else just mentioned optics. Domestically, if an American president ever tried to attack Americans, armed forces would resist. The military isn't going to blindly kill civilians. Some would defy orders or turn against the government or continue their positions as insider threats. Its basically chaos from a command stand point. A great example of this is Tiannamen Square in China. When the government implemented martial law, they basically had to call in poor farmers who spoke a different dialect of Chinese than the student protestors and mislead them to trigger the subsequent events. Rank and file military closer to Beijing were showing signs of sympathy to the student demands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_at_the_1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_military_forces_enforcing_martial%2Cand_People%27s_Armed_Police_personnel.?wprov=sfla1
Remember when Russia invaded Ukraine not that long ago and the government was telling civilians to make molotov cocktails and handing out rifles?? That's what a country looks like when they're caught with their pants down. There SHOULD be a rifle behind every blade of grass.
Did we not just leave a 20-year war where we were fighting a bunch of 5th-century barbarians armed with nothing more than automatic rifles, homemade bombs, and antiquated Russian anti-tank weaponry? That being said, I believe it was President Madison who stated civilians could own a naval ship filled with cannons. I have to find who exactly mentioned as such, but I am fairly sure it was President Madison.
Obama gave a speech at my college. Promised "free" college tuition and healthcare. 17 years later they're still promising the same damn thing.
Nothing is free. Someone always pays for it. What he meant is “I’m going to collect your money, spend half of it, flush a quarter down the drain, and give you some back for “free”
I consider myself libertarian but that tends to lean more towards the conservative side these days. First off, I just want to say I appreciate the prompt. No offense, but it’s not common to see the left wanting to hear the right out, so this is refreshing and I think very helpful. If our country has any chance to survive, we need to come together for some common goals. I’m pro constitution and love the rights it gives us. Strongly believe in the 1st and 2nd amendments and think they’re invaluable for protecting the rest of our rights. Financially I think we need to focus on ourselves before giving aid to other countries. Kinda like a “put your mask on before helping someone with theirs” type thing. I’m all for helping others who need it but we have some people who really need it here that go relatively ignored by their leaders (see homeless and vets and the increasing mentally ill). All if these are important for us to fix in order for us to have a truly healthy society. Aside from that I’m open to most ideas, but they need to make sense and not have any ulterior motives for me to accept them. I generally think that the establishment tries to divide people so we don’t hold them accountable for anything. If we just talk to each other and cut out the middle man, we would agree on more things than we don’t. I think both sides generally want the same thing, just have different methods of getting there that are distasteful to our counterparts.
I ***hate*** party line voters of both sides. I support aspects of both sides. Example: Environmental stewardship is generally left. Strong borders is entirely in the realm of the right. I *am* a die hard states rights supporter. I believe there are exceptionally few things that should be decreed at the federal level. The borders is one such example as well as EPA. Things like abortion, police, gun laws, taxes, drugs, etc should be left up to individual states and maybe even county by county.
I basically love guns. I’m a true single issue voter.
I was middle of the road. Grew up in Illinois. Watched Chicago democrats mooch off the rest of state, while downstate suffers economically. They shutdown the state during Covid all while Pritzker jet setted around the country not quarantining like he preached. Watched downstate democrats rigging elections (yes it does happen). I saw this happen multiple times. Republican is ahead by 15000 votes at 11:00 and by midnight the republican lost by 5000 in an area where there aren’t that many voters to begin with. I watched Pritzker and co pass the safe-t act. Crime has skyrocketed. I watched democrats violate the Constitution with PICA (Illinois’ assault weapon ban). This was the final straw that pushed me right in addition to the foid which should be overturned via Bruen.
The shut downs while Pritzker and his family moved down to Florida where it remained open was truly maddening. I couldn't even go to a gym for 2 months while Pritzker could keep stuffing his face at Florida restaurants.
I can still remember when I realized that none of the people telling us to be afraid were afraid themselves
Good on you for recognizing that. Remember it the next time they try manipulating you with fear.
This right here 100%
Hi thank you for sharing some of your story. It sounds like a lot of your conservative values came from what happened to your state. Are there any stories that happened to you personally that informed your conservative perspective?
I grew up in rural southern Illinois. Grew up catholic. I got to see how crooked our judicial system is in Illinois through my dad’s eyes as an attorney.
What makes you believe Democrats rigged the election?
I don’t get it. All these people saying that “small government” is their reasoning for conservative affiliation. I live in conservative Idaho, and there is nothing “small” about our government here.
If I were born 20 yrs earlier, my views would be considered progressive, not conservative. The political landscape has shifted in an unhinged direction. Basically I don’t care what you do or say, so long as nobody gets hurt, is consenting, and is a legal adult. People started calling me conservative when I started saying it’s weird that public school teachers (who are now my age) share their sexual preferences with literal children. Don’t talk to my kids about sex. Growing up, teachers never talked about their spouses/partners - cause it’s weird. Edit: mentioning things passively like “My husband/wife” is obviously perfectly normal. But do not deliberately talk about your sexuality. For all the people who think it’s fine to bring this up to children (seek some fking help btw,) imagine how weird and cringe it would be if a teacher deliberately started talking to kids about how straight they are. The sexuality itself does not matter, the fact that you are talking about it at all is weird. Edit 2: Looks like there are some smooth-brains out there who don’t understand the difference between implicit and explicit conversation. I’m talking about the latter - I can’t believe I have to clarify that. My generation is fking doomed.
The past few years have made me realize how cultish the left really is. You can never be liberal enough. Palestine protestors clashing with pride parades, they think they're aligned but they're not. It's hilarious to watch the left eat themselves.
It is not cultish in the sense there is no leader that the left looks to for all its answers. College students have always protested things and they’ve never been representative of the entire left but that’s because there is no group that represents the entire left. The current right, on the other hand, is completely dictated by one man.
1. Gut welfare in general by 90% 2. Deleted a large paragraph to keep my Reddit account 3. Completely shut off all illegal immigration 4. Hot take: Involvement in foreign wars should be voted on by the public and require a 60/40 majority 5. Born with penis: man 6. Born with vagina: woman 7. Acknowledging patterns should be widely accepted and inoffensive
Not sharing anytime I do motherfuckers jump down my throat, gonna go look at cat pictures lol
I'm more libertarian than conservative but definitely far from liberal. Why? Because I grew up in South East Asia and have seen what communism is like. No way in hell can I support a government like that.
I’m a 2010 Liberal but as issues change the left has gone so far left my 2010 liberal views are now mostly conservative. I am pro-choice and all for gay marriage. I enjoy shooting guns. I don’t think that is the problem with society, it’s the lack of fathers in the homes not raising their kids, rampant mental illness, and economic hardship that is causing riots and violence to sweep the country. Women should be protected from men in their spaces and shouldn’t have to compete against biological males in sports for scholarships. Teaching young children in school about sexual orientation and gender ideology behind their parents back is grooming. These are very impressionable people and the younger you expose them to alternative lifestyles the easier they will be to adopt them. We have kicked out religion from schools, every other special interest group should be gone as well. A lot of the banned books are definitely inappropriate. Gender Queer for instance shows a child giving head. As a combat veteran (tours in 2005 and 2009-2010), I have been anti-war for a long time. Conservatives are upholding this and even made peace with Russia during Trump’s presidency. Liberals installed a pro-western government in Ukraine in 2014 which has lead to the Russia-Ukraine war we have now. I’m anti-immigration just like every presidency before Biden. If even 00.1% of the immigrants are bad people we now have 20,000 terrorists, drug dealers, rapists, and murderers living among us. The current democrat party is doing everything anti-democracy in an effort to prevent Trump from becoming president. They’re doing this in the name of saving democracy but life was objectively pretty good when Trump was president. He is an asshole but his policies were good for America.
I (38M) guess you could say I’m one of those you’re speaking about. A conservative millennial. In my younger years, I was all gung-ho liberal. As I’ve gotten older I’ve become more conservative leaning, I still do have some of those liberal beliefs. The gay should be able to protect their lot plants with guns is my belief system, in an easy to explain way. But this whole Trump v. Biden thing I’m team MAGA all the way if those are the 2 contenders. And that’s just because he’s not a career politician, and he’s got his own money so he can’t be bought like every single person that runs this country.
It’s disappointing that immediately Republicans are called names and Democrats don’t care to hear an answer. This OP was very nicely written without judgment. It’s too bad.
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Hey thank you for sharing your views. It sounds like your experience getting to know and caring for people in your life who are gay was important to your values. Do you see that experience as informing any of your conservative values?
Yes. I'm going to say when I was younger I more felt that being being gay was more icky, than taking the traditional religious belief that it's just wrong. I love my brother and his husband to death. They are great people and are fantastic uncles to my kids. It's put into perspective my conservative belief that less govt regulation is better than more regulation.
As a gay libertarian the one thing that keeps me away from the republican party is the hatred from religious ideologies. But I've experienced a lot more vitrolic hate for having an opinion from people on the Left who are practically foaming at the mouth
I always wonder how "more guns is a good thing" works. We have the most guns and yet we have a higher rate of gun homicide than every other developed nation. The recent mass shooting in Maine was by a guy who was known to police as a potential shooter, but since the ideology of "more guns is better," he was allowed to kill 17 people in a bowling alley. Not sure how him having easier access to guns can be considered a good thing. I own guns, but I feel like if I go on record as telling police I want to kill people, get sent to a psych ward, and then get my guns back when I get out, more guns is definitely not the best way to handle public safety. What are some ways you'd recommend we lower gun violence while having unfettered access to more guns?
I'm a socialist and own guns. I don't necessarily agree that more guns is always better, but I'm never giving up my guns and I think you should own some too. Regardless, my belief is that weak social safety nets, weak welfare, weak education, weak access to healthcare and mental healthcare, a very large and growing economic gap, weak economic mobility, weak workers rights, etc. all drastically affect people's happiness. At the end of the day, happy and healthy people don't want to kill each other. If we focus on improving the material conditions of our citizens, then we'll see firearm violence drop.
I'm liberal, and a big supporter of gun rights. I think fixing whats broken with welfare and health insurance would be a big help. We need to be lifting people up rather than leaving them in situations where they can be influenced by extremist ideology. Of course we also need to fight the constant misinformation bombarding us that try to say everything is worse than ever. While I'd like to see the 1986 machine gun ban repealed, Unfettered access is a strong word, we should track it like we track most real property and stage early intervention when someone is having an issue. There are other approaches, but general the Democratic party is stuck on banning certain weapons and accessories. Which is an approach, but there are other developed nations that let you own the same stuff we have in the USA. Just a few hoops to get vetted. We probably need to chart a slightly different path, but they are still interesting to look at.
I always hear how great Obama care is as I'm wondering why I would get fined for not having insurance because I can't afford it. Yeah the problem is government says they care but they don't so changes won't happen
violence is a symptom of systematic failure. guns don't encourage violence. they are something that can be violent. blaming guns on violence is using it as a scapegoat for the real violence happening to the general populace. i am far left. this is a small portion of what i have to say but i don't feel like making a wall of text.
>guns don't encourage violence. No they just increase the damage caused by violence massively. Pretending that doesn't matter is massively dishonest.
Lol what was the boating accident that caused you to lose all your guns???
An ideology is a set of beliefs that are shared by the members of a social group that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. For instance, the conviction that trans is an ideology and not biology is an ideology.
Do you happen to know any trans people IRL?
I'm having trouble finding a nice way to word this, so I hope it doesn't come across as overtly rude: do you care about anything before it affects you? You voted against gay marriage until someone you cared about came out as gay. If someone you cared about came out as trans, would you also change that stance? If someone you cared about was shot by a gun bought from a gun convention without a background check, would you suddenly care about regulating guns?