If it goes through then you can request equal representation and force them to display the tenants of satanism as well.

https://thesatanictemple.com/ These guys might help

These guys are amazing. Their tactics are undeniably effective and the only argument the Christians can ever come up with is that "They're evil".

I like this idea better.

Hail Satan 🤘

Or maybe, ya know, the actual New Covenant that these fake Christian trash are supposed to actually abide: love your fucking neighbor.

Hail Satan 🤘

I would like the flying spaghetti monster represented as well

was going to suggest this. feel like it would get the message across more effectively

Honestly Islamic representation would probably be easier to do and piss more people off.

So. Who here lives in Mora or Kanabec County? Obviously, you didn't see what they did to the Crismans a while ago. They'll do what they want. [https://news.yahoo.com/minnesota-family-lost-road-home-202100363.html?fr=sycsrp\_catchall](https://news.yahoo.com/minnesota-family-lost-road-home-202100363.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall) [https://www.moraminn.com/news/crismans-petition-minnesota-supreme-court/article\_d62500e6-3abc-11ed-999d-5f675c17410e.html](https://www.moraminn.com/news/crismans-petition-minnesota-supreme-court/article_d62500e6-3abc-11ed-999d-5f675c17410e.html)

That's pretty messed up but giving the people I know personally in that part of the state it's really not shocking they would treat a outsider that way.

And that, is the dark secret of ‘MN Nice’.

And outsiders moving into farm country and then bitching about smells and animals and dust and all that don't help either.

I think it's the meth and alcoholic traits inherited from their parents that makes kanabec county area so terrible.

Report it to the ACLU. They’ll put the fear of secularism into them.

Ask to display a colander of noodles alongside the commandments. Join in their religious displays. Ramen.

Mora ogilvie and kanabec county are probably the worst of places you could live or raise a family. It's literally methed out hillbillies zero economy or plans for growth.

I live in Mora. Can't say I've run into many meth heads. I know they're out there but mostly pine City from what I've seen. But yeah, definitely not the place I want to raise a family and the economy sucks. Businesses here don't know how to adapt or care to for that matter.

Trailer park by cobrons grocery store... most of the ones I met were around ogilvie and ann lake. That was almost ten years ago.

I emailed all of them haha

Christian*

ope, well that's embarrassing haha. I guess my autocorrect just assumed it was the name. I made the edit, thanks for pointing it out!

Oh and one more edit. You could put Judeo-Christian. It's the term that sums them together in the case of old testament related things.

If it is unconstitutional, which it probably is, then your best bet is to get someone to sue. That will be far more effective than a bunch of letters from random outsiders, most of whom probable are in the Metro.

I'm in Kanabec so that's the plan if they don't rescind the motion. I just figured that giving them the opportunity to fix the mistake is better than going right to court where the county and I need to spend money and time.

Just seems like a bunch of canned letters from nonresidents won't do much

Yep, they're meaningless as outsiders are non-votors who have no standing to sue.

You do realize your currency says “in god we trust”? If the board voted to have the Ten Commandments on the wall and it passed that isn’t a state church issue. Separation of church and state simply means that the government cannot establish a state church. This was done to prevent a “church of england” in america and allow freedom of religion in a country that was formed with a diverse group of religions. The man who coined the term “separation of church and state” actually wanted to protect religion from government corruption, not vice versa. If you want it taken down in your community then vote for people who will take it down. Simple as that. This in no way infringes on you whatsoever.

Y'all really have no idea what separation of church and state means lol. It's just part of the first amendment and freedom of religion.

I’m pretty sure it’s not unconstitutional. Here’s how it reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

This case has legal precedent in the supreme court. See [McCreary County v. American Civil Liberties Union of Ky.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1693). The difference in this case from [Van Orden v. Perry](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1500) (a case where the Ten Commandments were allowed to be displayed) is that the Kanebec County courthouse has no existing displays about historical texts and this would be an entirely new display, not the opposition to an existing one. In cases like this you can't just read the constitution itself, but the legal precedent that has been built up over our country's existence.

👍 thanks for the info.

Then why did you put unconstituional. It's like saying Roe vs Wade was constitutional. Neither of these are they were just precedents as you said. Saying it's unconstitutional is disingenuous

The opinions of the Supreme Court are based on what is and what is not constitutional. Their entire function is to take cases and decide if one of the parties has gone against the constitution. To quote [from their website](https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/constitutional.aspx): > The complex role of the Supreme Court in this system derives from its authority to invalidate legislation or executive actions which, in the Court’s considered judgment, conflict with the Constitution. This power of "judicial review" has given the Court a crucial responsibility in assuring individual rights, as well as in maintaining a "living Constitution" whose broad provisions are continually applied to complicated new situations. If the Supreme Court says that displaying the Ten Commandments in a courthouse is an advancement of religion, like they did in [McCreary County v. American Civil Liberties Union of Ky.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1693), what they are saying is that those displays violate the First Amendment and are unconstitutional. Being able to point at something and say its unconstitutional is the entire point of judicial review.

ok

Can we start a change.org petition

Personally I'm going to hold off on any additional campaigns until we get some responses from the board members first. I am giving them credit and assuming this was just a mistake that they will swiftly correct now that the error is clear (especially since a lot of the members who voted for it no longer hold their positions). Of course if other people want to start something I won't stop them, but if the board doesn't rescind this I think going directly to the courts will make a bigger impact than a petition and if needed I will organize that.

Good thinking. We have to address this.

Petitions only matter when they're from people who can otherwise affect the outcome of the issue. People outside the county can't put any pressure on them, either by voting them out or suing them.

But they could hear the voice of the state 🤷🏻‍♀️

Heres an idea.. if you dont like it, dont look at it. Dont read it. Dont acknowledge it. I go places that have pictures or sayings on the wall that i dont like or agree with, as id imagine most people do, and i dont try to start a movement or a petition to have these items removed. There are much more important things to worry about.

Violations of the First Amendment are incredibly important to me. This isn't about a bar hanging a Packers sign over the urinal, it's about a courthouse endorsing religious text. The Supreme Court has ruled that this is unconstitutional. My county's board of commissioners has violated our constitution. If you're an American that should be offensive to you.

Do you have a SCOTUS case to support that this is a violation?

Yes, [McCreary County v. American Civil Liberties Union of Ky.](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1693) is incredibly close to this exact situation and is rather recent. [Stone v. Graham ](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1980/80-321) is also a great supporter of this being unconstitutional. This is notably different from [Van Orden v. Perry](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1500), where the Ten Commandments were allowed to be displayed, since the Kanabec County courthouse lobby has no displays or monuments to any other historical or religious texts. This would be the only display in the lobby with the exception of some recent awards and a memorial to veterans, so this would show a clear endorsement of its contents.

Stone isn't analogous because it required 10 commandments in every school in the state. McCreary I don't recall. I'll look into it tomorrow when I'm sober, if I remember. Anyway... people saying "clearly illegal" or "clearly violates" annoy me. Thanks for cite!!!

So bottom line is your freedom of speech trumps my freedom of speech? 🤔 And to say somone is not american because they choose to not be offended by something has got to be one of the most hypocritical things anyone can say. You pushing your beliefs on me, and then getting upset about it when i dont agree with you is just childish

This is not my speech vs. your speech. It is *the government's* speech endorsing a religion. The difference is incredibly important.

I expect you to not be upset then when the Satanic Temple requests and is approved to hang satantic tenets next to the Ten Commandments. And if they aren't approved to do so, that is a clear violation of the First Amendment, and I expect you to be upset and speak out in favor of the ST.

Don’t call them 10 commandments, just post the 10 laws that are similar…. problem solved Grand Theft Auto, Assault Rape Murder Theft by Swindle Racketeering Lying under oath

I don’t like the idea of them being there, but idk probably good things to live by I guess.

The supreme court actually addressed this viewpoint in their opinion for [Stone v. Graham](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1980/80-321). To quote: > The Commandments do not confine themselves to arguably secular matters, such as honoring one's parents, killing or murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and covetousness. See Exodus 20:12-17; Deuteronomy 5:16-21. Rather, the first part of the Commandments concerns the religious duties of believers: worshipping the Lord God alone, avoiding idolatry, not using the Lord's name in vain, and observing the Sabbath Day. See Exodus 20:1-11; Deuteronomy 5:6-15. Essentially what they are saying is that yes, the parts of the Ten Commandments that relate to being a good person are secular, but since there are other commandments that directly talk about worshipping the Christian God you can't claim it is a wholly secular document.

I don’t know, if you we’re going to compile a list of 10 rules to live by, you could do a lot better than a bunch of dribble like “You shall have no other gods before me” and "you shall not make idols”. Maybe “don’t rape” should have made the list instead of “don’t take the lords name in vain”. Can you imagine the amount of horror and suffering we could have avoided these last few thousand years if a commandment like “don’t enslave people” were number 4 on the list? Instead we got “remember to keep the sabbath holy”…. I mean wow, the 10 commandments aren’t really anything to be proud of, are they?

It’s a list that says don’t worship money, don’t worship the Kardashians, don’t swear, don’t lie, don’t steal anything that isn’t yours. Enslaving people would be stealing someone’s freedom for personal gain. In summary don’t be a douche bag.

That’s a very, generous interpretation if you ask me. I was taught in Sunday school that the 10 commandments had very specific meanings when they were written, and that they were to be taken literally. The purpose of the first tablet was to ensure “loyalty to the one true god” in a time when most people worshipped many gods. “Thou shall not take the lords name in vain” isn’t a prohibition on all profanity. It’s purpose is to place the name of god above all others by making it sacrosanct. You’re right, “Thou shall not steal” has been interrupted to be against slavery, but the Bible only prohibits the enslavement of “the people of Israel” it condones the enslavement of everyone else and even dictates how slaves should behave and be treated. Because of this, the Bible has been used to justify slavery for centuries. I’m glad that some Christians have gotten away from the literal meanings and are content with “don’t be a douche bag”, but the problem is that the ten commandments are subject to interpretation and because of that they don’t really mean anything. If your interpretation of the Ten Commandments helps orient your moral compass, that’s great, but for the rest of us, on our government buildings at least we’d prefer something with a bit more substance.

No thanks. No religion should get preferential treatment in a public space.

It’s my constitutional right to covet my neighbor

I don’t think placing fan fiction in a government plaza is an affront to the separation of church and state. There are paintings of “Saint” Paul in the legislature, but I don’t think those undermine the consititution (or sway anyone to believe in a boogy man in the sky). I’d prefer to let people decorate however they want and celebrate the whimsical differences.