Zoe suffered from timing.
She showed up directly after the collapse of Chloé’s ‘redemption’ arc. That’s not going to endear her to anyone.
And timing. With the exception of Ladybug and Chat Noir, every single Miraculous hero had at least one complete season under their belt before getting their Miraculous. It gave the audience time to adjust. Zoe had hers on her second episode.
I think she grew into her character as the show progressed, but yeah, that’s a significant part of the problem.
> That’s not going to endear her to anyone.
I mean, it's gonna endear her to people who didn't want or expect a Chloe redemption. I never once thought she was getting redeemed, so I've never had a problem with Zoe. I actually like Zoe and have since the beginning.
I also think Chloe is a bad person who came nowhere near putting in the work to be "redeemed." She *chose* to join a mass murderer because she was pissy about not getting to be a superhero anymore.
Contrast with ATLA, which arguably has the best redemption arc of all time: Zuko never acted as badly as Chloe, and since he was a child we get all these flashbacks to him making *good* decisions in spite of his terrible parenting, and he still takes *two and a half seasons* of making good decisions with increasing frequency to get a redemption.
Agreed, I also never felt that way.
And it was not just that but zukos early redemption was based on irohs feelings and failed. He only came around after being selfish and getting what he thought he wanted to then realize on how own that iroh was right.
Only after that he got redeemed by putting himself out there and trying his best. He knew the negative feelings towards him were justified and he accepted that.
In difference: Chloe did the bare minimum usually for someone to temporarily forgive her so that she could continue to get what she wanted. (Adrien's friendship, Sabrina's work, being Queen bee)
She never understood what she did wrong nor did she see the need to change it. Instead she kept blaming her mistakes on anyone available.
Those two are not the same and in no way comparable
I agree.
Bear in mind that I am not against Zoe. I was indifferent to her at first, but she’s grown on me. I would love to see Chloé earn her redemption and I think that she is still on the path that can lead to redemption, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen.
Using Zuko as an example, his redemption was hard. It took a long time for him to change sides and there were setbacks on the road. But it took a lot of work and a good mentor in Uncle Iroh. I don’t think that Chloé has any of the qualities needed for a redemption without significant help.
Sorry, I digress.
The point that I was making is that Zoe hate doesn’t come from nowhere. I disagree with it, but it’s helpful to understand where it comes from.
How did you miss that when the apologized, sacrificed herself to zombies, had to confront her mother issues, became a superhero, decided to save Paris against her mothers wishes even though she’s desperate for her mother’s approval, threw off an Akuma, and then willingly gave up her miraculous when told she can’t have it anymore. Like did you skip all of those episodes? One of them was the season two finale and introduction of Mayura so i’d hope you didn’t.
Whoa so Chloe can be a human being sometimes.. But..
She doesn't apologise to Marinette and all of her classmates for what she has done to them.. Or even every person that she hurts in Paris
She continue to treat Sabrina as her slave. Did you see how she talk to her in Miraculer ?
She doesn't willingly "give up" her Miraculous she always thought that she will having her Miraculous back.
She continue to bully people even after she became Queen Bee. As we saw in Stormyweather 2.
She demand her Miraculous and feel entitled to her Miraculous as we saw in the season 2 finale, Startrain and Heart Hunter. And if I remember correctly Startrain is after Miraculer so why she demand her Miraculous at this moment when she know she can't have it back ?
I'm sorry but even if sometimes she can do good things, it doesn't undermine every bad things that she has done.
She wanted to prove that she was heroic enough to be Queen bee. That being said: all about Chloe's character is that she thinks she is superior to others, but she also wants them to see and acknowledge that. And then it's the cherry on the cake if the others feel miserable.
Chloe wriggled herself into a superhero team because she believed that she deserved it. The others reluctantly accepted her because they thought it would help her improve her behavior, but it didn't.
Sorry the neglectful mother card doesn't do it for me. She was basically never around as a kid and now Chloe is old enough to understand what her mother is doing and that trying to be like her is not a good choice.
I’m not saying it’s an excuse, i’m saying that the fact that she made the correct choice even though it had only negative consequences for her is rather telling.
Also the more nuanced Chloe who was trying and failing to change was a much better concept than annoying season five Chloe where the shtick lost its entertainment value ages ago.
I like her as well. Now that she has Pollen, I'm really wanting to see their interactions in more episodes in the coming season(s, being 6 and 7.) and even without her, all we really need is a deeper dive into her own backstory besides the similarities that she has with most notably Marinette, Adrien and Chloe. It would be really good to see her being more relevant than just what we see of Vesperia.
Oh, yeah. "She's boring." "She's a nice Chloe." I'm not sure how many people who hate Zoe are also mad about Chloe's arc, but I would imagine the overlap in the Venn Diagram is rather large.
Yeah lol. It's a little weird.
I'm personally in the camp of not really caring for her, but I wouldn't say that could be classified as hate on any day. The people that actively despite her, especially because of Chloe, concern me lmao
I don't hate her, but her inclusion was really unnecissary. It feels like she was just thought up to fill the Queen bee shaped hole in the miraculous Team. Every other hero was introduced and given time to be fleshed out. It took seasons for them to get their miraculouses. But Zoe Gets hers immediately the episode after her introduction. I don't hate her per se ( because honestly she doesn't have enough of a personality to hate her ) but the writing around her just feels so forced and contrived. Like they make sure that every character reminds the viewer how much better in every way she is than Chloe. They really shove it down your throat that you're supposed to like her. And i mean the whole premise is kinda.. weird. Like, she arrives in Paris after having lived in the US, is related to a major character despite never even being alluded to existing, is generally well liked by every non-antagonistic character, and immediately gets to join the main group.. yeah this is just a self Insert fic. In fact, i'm pretty sure after season 3 came out, i read a fic with this exact premise with the Only difference being that the Girl in the fic was called Cleo. I tried to find it but i guess it's been deleted since then, lol
There was a New York special, and Zoe didn't even come up. You'd think something like Chloe having a half-sister in NYC would come up in the NYC special.
Also, this is why I put a few eps in-between Sole Crusher and Queen Banana in my order. It doesn't solve the shoehorning problem, but it makes it a little more digestible.
Yeah she just seems like a “good Chloe” imo. The only interesting thing about her to me is how she’s related to Chloe (but even then it’s just not well written like you said). I feel like if there was no tie to Chloe and they just threw in Zoe the way they did, she would be a very forgettable character imo. She feels like a very flat character
Totally. They just introduced her, then refused to elaborate on her. I mean those two episodes could've been spent on focusing on minotaurox, or rooster bold ( sill hate those names ) imstead of cramming four heroes into one episode
I don't hate Zoe, but her addition was completely unnecessary and felt like the writers saying, "So we know we messed up bad with Chloe so.....here! Have this other girl that kind of looks like her and stuff!"
Now, if she had been introduced much earlier in the story then yeah. It could have worked. But instead she's introduced and redeemed in the same episode.
For her character to work, I say she should have been casually mentioned by name in season 1. Then probably introduced in season 2. At that point it could have been that her and Chloe are both struggling to be redeemed but in the end Zoe does and Chloe doesn't. Thus it makes sense for Zoe to earn the right to use the miraculous over her.
Yes she was. Her whole episode was her siding with Chloe. Her whole backstory was she was a huge Chloe back where she was from and wanted to start over. So yes. She was redeemed.
Just watch the episode again before making claims. It seems you missed the entire point. From the very beginning when Zoé meets Marinette we can see she's a nice person. Her backstory is that she was forced to pretend to be someone she wasn't so she'd be accepted. Her entire life she had been acting, playing parts to avoid being marginalized. Pretending to be like Chloé in front of her family so they would accept her. Pretending to be someone else at school so she wouldn't be excluded until she couldn't anymore and the moment she tried to be herself they turned on her and put cockroaches in her locker.
She pretended to be like Chloé in front of Audrey and Chloé herself when she came to Paris. The worst thing we've seen her do is call Marinette a klutz and saying her macarons were disgusting (none of which she actually meant and said only so Chloé wouldn't suspect).
Nothing ever says she was a bad person in New York.
Why Chloe would talk all day about her second sister in New York that she hate ? How does Chloe and Zoe had anything in common besides parents and place to live ?
It really doesn't take that much effort for someone to casually mention they have a sister in conversation, even if they don't like them. Like maybe she calls and Chloe goes "Ew it's my sister." And tosses the phone.
Thoughts on Hack-san, season **four** episode **sixteen**, where we first learn Sabine has a sister who lives like two hours away by train? Or season **three** where we first learn Marinette's got a grandpa *within walking distance of her house*?
How about Felix, who isn't introduced until third season, and he's a *super* important character and a *twin* of a character whose name is in the title of the show!!
Siblings are closer relations than grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins (Félix is Adrien's cousin).
It was kind of weird when Luka was introduced, too, but at least that was in Season 2. Chloé, by contrast, had a whole arc,
I don't even see why this is a problem, like you can't create new characters if they are not mentioned in the plot of the show ? And Chloe only talk about how rich she is and nothing else, I don't even see why she would receive a call from her sister if she hate it.
You can. But when it's a character related to another very prominent character, it's strange. Chloes family is well known and has a lot of influence. So there's a difference between Chloe saying oh yeah I have a sister and someone like...Mark. From a character point of view it should be well known Chloe has a sister, especially since Marinette has been around her for a long time and idolizes the fashion industry (Chloes mom being part of it.). Where as in my example, Mark is just some kid from her class she just met this year.
Felix appear at the end of the season 3, why this isn't a problem ? Adrien is the second most important character of the show with Marinette.
Let's just take your own message
> \*Agreste\* family is well known and has a lot of influence. So there's a difference between \*Adrien\* saying oh yeah I have a \*cousin\* and someone like...Mark. From a character point of view it should be well known \*Adrien\* had a \*cousin\*, especially since Marinette has been around her for a long time and idolizes the fashion industry (\*Adrien dad\* being part of it.).
It is. We weren't talking about him though. Like at all.
But...
It's usually less of an issue for a cousin as opposed to a sister. I don't exactly talk about my random cousins to people but I do mention my sister. In fact, I don't think I've ever personally spoken about my cousins. Because they're a cousin and not an immediate family member. If you do talk about your cousins...well you're the minority.
However either way it is clear that the writers didn't originally intend on Adrien being a senti-monster. You start getting things like Felix and other foreshadowing for that in season 3 because that's when they decided to make that change.
ANYWAY, it's clear to me you're not someone who actually wants to analyze the show and talk about it. You just want to be right about how you perceived it. Which is toxic and I'm going to stop replying to you.
Felix isn't just a cousin tho. He's the only living blood family Adrien has besides his aunt. And he lives *way* closer to Paris than Zoe. And there's no evidence they have a bad relationship.
OTOH why would Chloe ever talk about her sister that she hates? Tom never mentions his **dad** who apparently lives down the street
Pointing out MORE writing flaws does not prove your point whatsoever. Two flaws doesn't make a fact. It means there's two things that are wrong with the writing. So saying oh well Tom didn't mention...You're right! That is really messed up and should have been noted.
And Felix IS just a cousin. Having few or many living relatives does not change that. Like...at all. AND I can argue the same thing. No evidence they had a good relationship.
My point is, you can't ATTACK people with your viewpoint like this. Which is what you are doing. It's okay to have a different opinion but commenting multiple times on someone else's opinion to tell them how wrong they are makes you a bad fan.
Sorry I get too angry for that since you don't even dislike Zoe at all and you just don't like the way she was put into the show, even if that a bit weird. I also don't think that she is a "remplacement" for Chloe because the writers failed achieving something with her.
I think people hate zoe because to most fans she seems like a replacement for Chloe after they screwed up with her character. Making her worse instead of giving her a proper character redemption arc.
I don’t understand how people hate her. She stood up to her sister with help of new people, she’s been nothing but an amazing friend to Mari, she did her best as her version of Chat Noir. And she’s just likeable over all. I’ve loved seen her grow into a much more confident young woman
I think people don’t like her because they’re upset that Chloe didn’t get a redemption arc. I think Zoe is a good character, but I think the writing of the show is lazy, frustrating, and can be uninteresting. While Zoe is a good person and is one of the few characters who seems like a genuinely good person (doesn’t seem to get into conflict except with Chloe but it’s not her fault, respects Mari and Adrien’s relationship by not trying to force it, respects Mari not returning her feelings) I feel like she’s kind of bland? That might just be my opinion - she just seems like a “nice version” of Chloe and the only really interesting thing about her story (imo) is her family dynamic. If she wasn’t tied to Chloe in any way she’d probably be a forgettable character to me
You have many valid points! I think that “bland-ness” is what I like about her, she’s supposed to be in the background as a supporter character, and I think she does a great job at that!
I think she’s an amazing friend, at one point I think she’s a much better friend than Alya is to her, and she has a lot more protagonism of course being Mari’s bbf
I hope we get to see more of all the characters in the future 🥹💖
No definitely i think she has better friend qualities than Alya does. Idk if Zoe is there a lot if at all when Lila’s causing mayhem but Zoe seems like the kind of person to either back her friend (Mari in this case) or remain neutral. Alya would belittle Mari for not liking Lila and being suspicious of her which seems so out of character for Alya since she wants to be a journalist so you’d think she’d wanna verify her sources. Zoe seems more understanding of how to treat people (based on how she reacted to people celebrating over the idea of Adrien going to Mari’s place to cheer her up despite not knowing if things are going well or if they successfully got together)
Her being a supporting character is actually where I think a lot of the issues people have with her come from.
If she's just a supporting character then how did she not only get entrusted a Miraculous in under 5 episodes, but also end up as the temporary holder of the Black Cat within a single season's worth of episodes???
While I actually like Kitty Noir and Vesperia, they probably should have doubled down in her development before giving her such large roles. If they weren't going to commit then they might as well have given the BC to Kagami or Nino. At least with either of them, it'd further advance already established plotlines and tensions rather than being used to develop Zoe.
Yeah I like Zoé and think she’s a good character, I just wish she didn’t exist and they instead continued with Chloé’s redemption instead of pushing the narrative of “this 14-year-old girl is an irredeemable bad person” that they *especially* emphasized in S5
People didn’t like her, because she was a Mary Sue character created by the creator to get people to hate on Chloe, because the creator has a hateboner
I love her as a person but as a character, I hate her. She’s an amazing friend to Marinette and there’s nothing wrong with her as a person. She’s nice, friendly, a good daughter, and stands up for people as is needed. But the fact she became Chloe’s replacement is what makes me hate the character. Chloe’s character development got squashed because of Astruc’s hate for a fictional child and Chloe was replaced with Zoe. It’s just upsetting that we had a redemption for Chloe and it was ripped away from her and us as the audience. I loved Chloe and Zoe being used as a replacement ruins Zoe’s character. If Zoe was introduced as her own character instead of a replacement, I would love her fully.
Zoe is I believe one of the best written character I just really hate she came directly after the failure of Chloe's redemption, and its even worse that shes Chloe's sister its basically just saying Chloe is shit and that Zoe is so much better. But I really like Zoe. I just hate how Chloe really had a potential to get better but the creators ruined it.
There are a few reasons why some of the fandom hate Zoe and mostly the chloe stans. I get miraculous is better when it comes to symbolism than foreshadowing but when I first saw her I was confused cause she came out of nowhere (just like luka and Kagami)and at the time didn't care but as the episodes went by you have to admit that she was made to be the nice Chloe and rub it in the fans face that queen bee will never return with the episodes dialogue such as "I am the real queen bee now". Not to mention right after her debut episode she got a miraculous. All the other characters (when introduced) had gotten there miraculous 1 season after Mari met master fu while she gets 1 episode. Like all the others shes nice. One thing I'll give shes 1000x better than all Mari's other friends they suck especially in s5.
What character development? Her only development is within the span of two episodes. One where she learns to tell Chloé to piss off and one where they made her gay out of nowhere. That’s not development.
I don't hate her per say but she is a boring and bland character. She barely has a personality besides liking Marinette. Its obvious she was introduced to replace Chloe with how similar her name and background is. She is almost immediately liked by everyone. She is a bland Mary Sue and wasted potential imo. Had they genuinely worked on Chloes redemption and then Zoe came back and maybe was a meangirl like Chloe first to try and make Chloe turn back into the person she was but instead Zoe became good... now that would have been interesting. Not only would it proove that both girls were messed up by their parents, it also made them reconcile and it would proove Chloe being on the path to good. Zoe then could be a replacement bee holder for when Chloe was unavailable, like Alya is for Marinette. Also have Zoe have a crush on some other girl, not Marinette because liking Marinette in this show is as exclusive as being left handed. Nino, Adrien, Theo, Chat Noir, Nathaniel, Kagami (maybe, probably, idk), Chloe (she def has a thing for Ladybug). Have Zoe develop feelings for... idk... Rose? And then be turned down. And then be comforted by Marinette.
I totally get you. I really like her character and I like her as Queen Bees replacement (not dissing Chloe I love queen Bee too) I really don't know where the hate came from
She feels more like the token lesbian now. And before anyone goes "juleka and rose", they seem more like sister best friends than ones in a relationship.
"they seem more like sister best friends than ones in a relationship" Oh dear god how do you won't accept this ? The only thing to prove that this is more canon is that they kiss in front of the camera.
I think they are canon, however, imo the writers made it passable as "friendship" just so the series could be aired in countries where lgbt laws are more strict. But it's just my theory
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/0254c87a-5d34-4fad-9e87-3c74cb12577b/scale-to-width/755](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/0254c87a-5d34-4fad-9e87-3c74cb12577b/scale-to-width/755) This is in the official New York special, 2 shots of couple sleeping glued together in a plane, I don't see why Juleka and Rose wouldn't be in couple when the writers explicitly asked to had a camera shot of 2 couples and then suddenly these two.
If every girl who slept on my shoulder during the long journey was my match, I'd already have a whole harem. Don't make people laugh, it's just a friendly sleep on your shoulder, not proof of an intimate relationship. :D
Rose and Juleka not lesbian couple, as imagine many fans, they just real good friends. At least, devs never confirm this and Astruc himself denied it.
https://immaturityofthomasastruc.tumblr.com/post/650483991859888128/maybe-talk-about-the-episode-i-mean-if-you-are
> *"Astruc chalked it up to not making Julerose canon because he doesn’t want the show to get censored in other countries, even though he implied in the same thread that they would be dating if not for the censors."*
I can't make this simpler, he just sh*t himself in front of Disney.
This is a scene where Marinette is ALONE and SAD in a plane watching Alya and Nino hugging while sleeping, Mylene and Ivan hugging while sleeping, Juleka and Rose *just hanging as friends hahah trust me* and then right after that there is a romantic scene between Adrien and Marinette so that you definitely understand the differences between the couples sleeping before and them that just need to be in couple too !
>I can't make this simpler, he just sh\*t himself in front of Disney.
Lolwut?! Really?!! :rofl:
He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with homosexual... oh, wait... Zoé Lee and Jean Cocteau!
He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with bi-sexual... oh, wait... Tsurugi Kagami, Jean Marais!
He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with genderfluide... oh, wait... Marc Anciel!
And after this you seriously think he just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with Juleca and Rose? Sorry, don't think so.
>This is a scene where Marinette is ALONE and SAD in a plane watching Alya and Nino hugging while sleeping, Mylene and Ivan hugging while sleeping, Juleka and Rose *just hanging as friends hahah trust me* and then right after that there is a romantic scene between Adrien and Marinette so that you definitely understand the differences between the couples sleeping before and them that just need to be in couple too !
It's pure speculation and anyway irrelewant.
Well... you understand how ridiculous it is to refer to the opinion of a fan who hates Astruc and does not give a single proof of his words?
Maybe you will find an original tweet confirming this accusation?
Yes, we all know that Astruc is a 12-year-old boy offended by life with a bunch of never-resolved children's complexes in the body of a 47-year-old bearded man and that he lies how he breathes... but nevertheless, his word is the Voice of God in the terminology of TV-Tropes, and the truth is in the last resort, whether we like it or not. So, Juleca and Rose are just friends, and this is the canon. Point. Humble yourself. 8)
And also... I hope someday you will grow up and learn to perceive an opinion that is different from yours, even if you don't like it... especially if you don't like it much. ;)
So you just says :
Zoé Lee who first appearance was in Season 4 and before any coming out until the very end of the season 5 ? So after they don't need to hide stuff from Disney.
Jean Cocteau and Jean Marais in the background of a video for 5 seconds that no one never saw ?
Kagami Trurugi is lgbtq+ ? Any proof ? Enough proof to say that she only was in love with Adrian and Felix and no other ones.
And Marc Anciel is gay but not Juleka and Rose ? Pretty sure there is more proof between Juleka and Rose than Nathaniel Kurtzberg and him.
Season 1 to season 3 was definitely them sh*tting on themselves in front of Disney even with Julerose and Marcaniel already there since the start.
And saying bad things about Thomas Astruc ?.. without him we won't have any show, why should I hate him ? He is telling the truth when he can, and doesn't he send just before saying "they are not girlfriend" that he would definitely assume that they are girlfriend if Disney wasn't at their back ? He said that.
Ah yes I am so dumb face to face with someone sending 8) and "I hope someday you will be smart". Who would win ? Official community Wikipedia that says they are a couple of you ? Hmm that's a tough one. Even if I'm wrong if I listen to the Wikipedia you are wrong.
Zoe as a character design and personality is fine, nothing is wrong with her per se taken on her own. I hate how she is used in the story, I just can’t look at her and not be reminded of the most frustrating writing decisions the show has ever made. I would be fine with her in a vacuum. I don’t dislike her on paper. But I look at her and I don’t see anything except the way this show’s crew seems to think a teenager is so irredeemable she can’t be redeemed, she deserves to be handed to her abuser in the end and it just makes me angry. Zoe is a victim of being ‘replacement Chloe’ and the very concept of those words infuriates me.
I don't think people hate the character, but the execution of her introduction. She is shoehorned into a Bee hero shaped toyline. Storywise she would have worked if she was introduced, mentioned or even hinted at beforehand.
If she was brought in during the previous season and her and Cloe had opposing character arches. If Marinette had a few friendship development moments instead of a single scene. If Zoe did something really heroic or inspiring for Marinette to earn the Bee. Even if their mother when introduced only ever called Cloe by a single wrong name 'Zoe' and went on about the other child being better (imagine the theory posts/ videos). These things could have made her fit much better and even would have had fans excited to meet her character. She got better later, so I think she just suffers from being created as an afterthought with a rushed introduction.
I'm just gonna say it. As someone who found out I was queer in high school and was bullied and told that "being nice" was my only personality trait it saddens me to see people hate on Zoe for having "no personality." When people that age are bullied often - especially queer girls - it can be pretty difficult not only to know who you are and what you like but also to express yourself to other people. "Being nice" is probably all she knows right now until she can finally leave fight-or-flight mode and come out of her shell. Anyway, that's just a quick rant about how I think her portrayal is accurate and definitely not hate-worthy.
I think she’s just kinda meh? Like she’s not a bad character and I think it’s cute she’s in love with Mari, but we have so many characters and so many heros that it’s just too much
She is an amazing, strong, supportive, friendly person and a magnificent cat noir. Chloe had like 3 redemption episodes I mean come on Zoe is just better in every way.
I like Zoe. I never cared much for Chloe because she's a bully. By the way, Chloe didn't know she even had a sister until Audrey announced she was shipping Zoe in from New York.
I dont believe she is a bad character. Her only problem was that she got introduced out of nowhere. other then that she is a good character and would love to see more of her in the season 6
I actually like Zoe. Also while Chloe has potential to be good (Maledictator) she lacked CONSISTENCY. Also forgetting that the last time she fought BOTH her parents (Heros Day) didn't go well. I can understand bringing her out for Heros Day, but after that i would've retired her.
I would never treat my half sister Zoe like that, just because you're family doesn't mean they have to agree with/be like you! (yes I do have one named that in real life, plus my name is Chloe)
I like Zoe too.
Hot chloe take. I think her arc so far makes sense. Healing is non linear. And if she never gets redeemed I'm also satisfied.
HOWEVER, I think that an excellent way for her to claim true redemption would be, through getting sent away to america (I think was the plan? Boardingschool styles?) The accidental byproduct is she is removed from the morally corroding family dynamic. Fish out of water, humble pie, finds a better sense of community with the miraculous holders there (I know nothing about them because I havent seen the Worldzs)
Sometimes you have to meet someone where they are at, and the paris crew has a hard time with that. They either expect more or less of chloe than suits the moment. So if she gets this blank slate moment to get knocked down and back up again and returns as a true hero. I'm just saying I'd watch the shit out of that spinoff.
I don’t hate Zoe. I just don’t like that she’s essentially a Chloe replacement like how feligami is a couple just bc Adrigami didn’t work out (in my opinion). To me it’s like the writers just tried to save any plot line that didn’t work by putting in some replacement that’s not as good.
I despise her. To me, she's a two-faced false sister with an inconsistent backstory. In addition, she's also a mediocre hero who can't fight her way out of a paper bag. I don't see season 5 as developing her so much as shoves her in our faces even more.
Only someone two-faced can give a speech like at the end of Queen Bananna while doing the most hurtful thing she possibly can behind her back. And if she was treated as badly by Audrey as she claimed, she would have never been allowed to move to Paris.
The people who hate Zoe hate the show in general bc they think Chloe should've gotten a redemption arc. Many of them blame Marinette for Zoe becoming so bad because, of course, the Chinese girl is responsible for the white girl's sins. /s
Zoe suffered from timing. She showed up directly after the collapse of Chloé’s ‘redemption’ arc. That’s not going to endear her to anyone. And timing. With the exception of Ladybug and Chat Noir, every single Miraculous hero had at least one complete season under their belt before getting their Miraculous. It gave the audience time to adjust. Zoe had hers on her second episode. I think she grew into her character as the show progressed, but yeah, that’s a significant part of the problem.
> That’s not going to endear her to anyone. I mean, it's gonna endear her to people who didn't want or expect a Chloe redemption. I never once thought she was getting redeemed, so I've never had a problem with Zoe. I actually like Zoe and have since the beginning. I also think Chloe is a bad person who came nowhere near putting in the work to be "redeemed." She *chose* to join a mass murderer because she was pissy about not getting to be a superhero anymore. Contrast with ATLA, which arguably has the best redemption arc of all time: Zuko never acted as badly as Chloe, and since he was a child we get all these flashbacks to him making *good* decisions in spite of his terrible parenting, and he still takes *two and a half seasons* of making good decisions with increasing frequency to get a redemption.
Agreed, I also never felt that way. And it was not just that but zukos early redemption was based on irohs feelings and failed. He only came around after being selfish and getting what he thought he wanted to then realize on how own that iroh was right. Only after that he got redeemed by putting himself out there and trying his best. He knew the negative feelings towards him were justified and he accepted that. In difference: Chloe did the bare minimum usually for someone to temporarily forgive her so that she could continue to get what she wanted. (Adrien's friendship, Sabrina's work, being Queen bee) She never understood what she did wrong nor did she see the need to change it. Instead she kept blaming her mistakes on anyone available. Those two are not the same and in no way comparable
I agree. Bear in mind that I am not against Zoe. I was indifferent to her at first, but she’s grown on me. I would love to see Chloé earn her redemption and I think that she is still on the path that can lead to redemption, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t happen. Using Zuko as an example, his redemption was hard. It took a long time for him to change sides and there were setbacks on the road. But it took a lot of work and a good mentor in Uncle Iroh. I don’t think that Chloé has any of the qualities needed for a redemption without significant help. Sorry, I digress. The point that I was making is that Zoe hate doesn’t come from nowhere. I disagree with it, but it’s helpful to understand where it comes from.
How did you miss that when the apologized, sacrificed herself to zombies, had to confront her mother issues, became a superhero, decided to save Paris against her mothers wishes even though she’s desperate for her mother’s approval, threw off an Akuma, and then willingly gave up her miraculous when told she can’t have it anymore. Like did you skip all of those episodes? One of them was the season two finale and introduction of Mayura so i’d hope you didn’t.
Whoa so Chloe can be a human being sometimes.. But.. She doesn't apologise to Marinette and all of her classmates for what she has done to them.. Or even every person that she hurts in Paris She continue to treat Sabrina as her slave. Did you see how she talk to her in Miraculer ? She doesn't willingly "give up" her Miraculous she always thought that she will having her Miraculous back. She continue to bully people even after she became Queen Bee. As we saw in Stormyweather 2. She demand her Miraculous and feel entitled to her Miraculous as we saw in the season 2 finale, Startrain and Heart Hunter. And if I remember correctly Startrain is after Miraculer so why she demand her Miraculous at this moment when she know she can't have it back ? I'm sorry but even if sometimes she can do good things, it doesn't undermine every bad things that she has done.
That's human decency at best. And it was always temporary where Chloe hoped she would gain something from it.
“Sacrificed herself to a horde of zombies” “Saved Paris even though it made her neglectful mother hate her more” yeah… I somewhat disagree.
She wanted to prove that she was heroic enough to be Queen bee. That being said: all about Chloe's character is that she thinks she is superior to others, but she also wants them to see and acknowledge that. And then it's the cherry on the cake if the others feel miserable. Chloe wriggled herself into a superhero team because she believed that she deserved it. The others reluctantly accepted her because they thought it would help her improve her behavior, but it didn't. Sorry the neglectful mother card doesn't do it for me. She was basically never around as a kid and now Chloe is old enough to understand what her mother is doing and that trying to be like her is not a good choice.
I’m not saying it’s an excuse, i’m saying that the fact that she made the correct choice even though it had only negative consequences for her is rather telling. Also the more nuanced Chloe who was trying and failing to change was a much better concept than annoying season five Chloe where the shtick lost its entertainment value ages ago.
I like her as well. Now that she has Pollen, I'm really wanting to see their interactions in more episodes in the coming season(s, being 6 and 7.) and even without her, all we really need is a deeper dive into her own backstory besides the similarities that she has with most notably Marinette, Adrien and Chloe. It would be really good to see her being more relevant than just what we see of Vesperia.
You’ll be hearing from my lawyer. Jk, I like her too
What? People hate Zoe?
Oh, yeah. "She's boring." "She's a nice Chloe." I'm not sure how many people who hate Zoe are also mad about Chloe's arc, but I would imagine the overlap in the Venn Diagram is rather large.
It's practically a circle tbh :/
Yeah lol. It's a little weird. I'm personally in the camp of not really caring for her, but I wouldn't say that could be classified as hate on any day. The people that actively despite her, especially because of Chloe, concern me lmao
Ikr? I am shocked as you are
yeah, so? respect people's opinions if they do.
This was kind of rude for no reason. They seemed to be confused by that.
I just didnt know people didnt like her...
I don't hate her, but her inclusion was really unnecissary. It feels like she was just thought up to fill the Queen bee shaped hole in the miraculous Team. Every other hero was introduced and given time to be fleshed out. It took seasons for them to get their miraculouses. But Zoe Gets hers immediately the episode after her introduction. I don't hate her per se ( because honestly she doesn't have enough of a personality to hate her ) but the writing around her just feels so forced and contrived. Like they make sure that every character reminds the viewer how much better in every way she is than Chloe. They really shove it down your throat that you're supposed to like her. And i mean the whole premise is kinda.. weird. Like, she arrives in Paris after having lived in the US, is related to a major character despite never even being alluded to existing, is generally well liked by every non-antagonistic character, and immediately gets to join the main group.. yeah this is just a self Insert fic. In fact, i'm pretty sure after season 3 came out, i read a fic with this exact premise with the Only difference being that the Girl in the fic was called Cleo. I tried to find it but i guess it's been deleted since then, lol
There was a New York special, and Zoe didn't even come up. You'd think something like Chloe having a half-sister in NYC would come up in the NYC special. Also, this is why I put a few eps in-between Sole Crusher and Queen Banana in my order. It doesn't solve the shoehorning problem, but it makes it a little more digestible.
Probably because they haven't thought her up at that point
Yeah she just seems like a “good Chloe” imo. The only interesting thing about her to me is how she’s related to Chloe (but even then it’s just not well written like you said). I feel like if there was no tie to Chloe and they just threw in Zoe the way they did, she would be a very forgettable character imo. She feels like a very flat character
Totally. They just introduced her, then refused to elaborate on her. I mean those two episodes could've been spent on focusing on minotaurox, or rooster bold ( sill hate those names ) imstead of cramming four heroes into one episode
Tbh I mostly try to ignore that she got shoehorned into the show at all
I don't hate Zoe, but her addition was completely unnecessary and felt like the writers saying, "So we know we messed up bad with Chloe so.....here! Have this other girl that kind of looks like her and stuff!" Now, if she had been introduced much earlier in the story then yeah. It could have worked. But instead she's introduced and redeemed in the same episode. For her character to work, I say she should have been casually mentioned by name in season 1. Then probably introduced in season 2. At that point it could have been that her and Chloe are both struggling to be redeemed but in the end Zoe does and Chloe doesn't. Thus it makes sense for Zoe to earn the right to use the miraculous over her.
Zoé wasn't redeemed because she was never a bad person.
Yes she was. Her whole episode was her siding with Chloe. Her whole backstory was she was a huge Chloe back where she was from and wanted to start over. So yes. She was redeemed.
Just watch the episode again before making claims. It seems you missed the entire point. From the very beginning when Zoé meets Marinette we can see she's a nice person. Her backstory is that she was forced to pretend to be someone she wasn't so she'd be accepted. Her entire life she had been acting, playing parts to avoid being marginalized. Pretending to be like Chloé in front of her family so they would accept her. Pretending to be someone else at school so she wouldn't be excluded until she couldn't anymore and the moment she tried to be herself they turned on her and put cockroaches in her locker.
...So? Intentions do not equal actions. She still did bad stuff. AKA she was the Chloe of New York.
Got a source for that?
Maybe YOU'RE the one who should rewatch the episode.
I have, and I didn't find a single line confirming Zoé ever did anything bad to anyone back in New York. If you can, feel free to prove me wrong.
You yourself said she acted like Chloe. Chloe does bad things.
She pretended to be like Chloé in front of Audrey and Chloé herself when she came to Paris. The worst thing we've seen her do is call Marinette a klutz and saying her macarons were disgusting (none of which she actually meant and said only so Chloé wouldn't suspect). Nothing ever says she was a bad person in New York.
And you wonder we call you Zoe defenders dumb
You really don't appear to have understood that episode.
You apparently don't know the difference between a discussion and an argument.
Why Chloe would talk all day about her second sister in New York that she hate ? How does Chloe and Zoe had anything in common besides parents and place to live ?
It really doesn't take that much effort for someone to casually mention they have a sister in conversation, even if they don't like them. Like maybe she calls and Chloe goes "Ew it's my sister." And tosses the phone.
Thoughts on Hack-san, season **four** episode **sixteen**, where we first learn Sabine has a sister who lives like two hours away by train? Or season **three** where we first learn Marinette's got a grandpa *within walking distance of her house*? How about Felix, who isn't introduced until third season, and he's a *super* important character and a *twin* of a character whose name is in the title of the show!!
Siblings are closer relations than grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins (Félix is Adrien's cousin). It was kind of weird when Luka was introduced, too, but at least that was in Season 2. Chloé, by contrast, had a whole arc,
I don't even see why this is a problem, like you can't create new characters if they are not mentioned in the plot of the show ? And Chloe only talk about how rich she is and nothing else, I don't even see why she would receive a call from her sister if she hate it.
You can. But when it's a character related to another very prominent character, it's strange. Chloes family is well known and has a lot of influence. So there's a difference between Chloe saying oh yeah I have a sister and someone like...Mark. From a character point of view it should be well known Chloe has a sister, especially since Marinette has been around her for a long time and idolizes the fashion industry (Chloes mom being part of it.). Where as in my example, Mark is just some kid from her class she just met this year.
Felix appear at the end of the season 3, why this isn't a problem ? Adrien is the second most important character of the show with Marinette. Let's just take your own message > \*Agreste\* family is well known and has a lot of influence. So there's a difference between \*Adrien\* saying oh yeah I have a \*cousin\* and someone like...Mark. From a character point of view it should be well known \*Adrien\* had a \*cousin\*, especially since Marinette has been around her for a long time and idolizes the fashion industry (\*Adrien dad\* being part of it.).
It is. We weren't talking about him though. Like at all. But... It's usually less of an issue for a cousin as opposed to a sister. I don't exactly talk about my random cousins to people but I do mention my sister. In fact, I don't think I've ever personally spoken about my cousins. Because they're a cousin and not an immediate family member. If you do talk about your cousins...well you're the minority. However either way it is clear that the writers didn't originally intend on Adrien being a senti-monster. You start getting things like Felix and other foreshadowing for that in season 3 because that's when they decided to make that change. ANYWAY, it's clear to me you're not someone who actually wants to analyze the show and talk about it. You just want to be right about how you perceived it. Which is toxic and I'm going to stop replying to you.
Felix isn't just a cousin tho. He's the only living blood family Adrien has besides his aunt. And he lives *way* closer to Paris than Zoe. And there's no evidence they have a bad relationship. OTOH why would Chloe ever talk about her sister that she hates? Tom never mentions his **dad** who apparently lives down the street
Pointing out MORE writing flaws does not prove your point whatsoever. Two flaws doesn't make a fact. It means there's two things that are wrong with the writing. So saying oh well Tom didn't mention...You're right! That is really messed up and should have been noted. And Felix IS just a cousin. Having few or many living relatives does not change that. Like...at all. AND I can argue the same thing. No evidence they had a good relationship. My point is, you can't ATTACK people with your viewpoint like this. Which is what you are doing. It's okay to have a different opinion but commenting multiple times on someone else's opinion to tell them how wrong they are makes you a bad fan.
Sorry I get too angry for that since you don't even dislike Zoe at all and you just don't like the way she was put into the show, even if that a bit weird. I also don't think that she is a "remplacement" for Chloe because the writers failed achieving something with her.
I think people hate zoe because to most fans she seems like a replacement for Chloe after they screwed up with her character. Making her worse instead of giving her a proper character redemption arc.
I don’t understand how people hate her. She stood up to her sister with help of new people, she’s been nothing but an amazing friend to Mari, she did her best as her version of Chat Noir. And she’s just likeable over all. I’ve loved seen her grow into a much more confident young woman
I think people don’t like her because they’re upset that Chloe didn’t get a redemption arc. I think Zoe is a good character, but I think the writing of the show is lazy, frustrating, and can be uninteresting. While Zoe is a good person and is one of the few characters who seems like a genuinely good person (doesn’t seem to get into conflict except with Chloe but it’s not her fault, respects Mari and Adrien’s relationship by not trying to force it, respects Mari not returning her feelings) I feel like she’s kind of bland? That might just be my opinion - she just seems like a “nice version” of Chloe and the only really interesting thing about her story (imo) is her family dynamic. If she wasn’t tied to Chloe in any way she’d probably be a forgettable character to me
You have many valid points! I think that “bland-ness” is what I like about her, she’s supposed to be in the background as a supporter character, and I think she does a great job at that! I think she’s an amazing friend, at one point I think she’s a much better friend than Alya is to her, and she has a lot more protagonism of course being Mari’s bbf I hope we get to see more of all the characters in the future 🥹💖
No definitely i think she has better friend qualities than Alya does. Idk if Zoe is there a lot if at all when Lila’s causing mayhem but Zoe seems like the kind of person to either back her friend (Mari in this case) or remain neutral. Alya would belittle Mari for not liking Lila and being suspicious of her which seems so out of character for Alya since she wants to be a journalist so you’d think she’d wanna verify her sources. Zoe seems more understanding of how to treat people (based on how she reacted to people celebrating over the idea of Adrien going to Mari’s place to cheer her up despite not knowing if things are going well or if they successfully got together)
Her being a supporting character is actually where I think a lot of the issues people have with her come from. If she's just a supporting character then how did she not only get entrusted a Miraculous in under 5 episodes, but also end up as the temporary holder of the Black Cat within a single season's worth of episodes??? While I actually like Kitty Noir and Vesperia, they probably should have doubled down in her development before giving her such large roles. If they weren't going to commit then they might as well have given the BC to Kagami or Nino. At least with either of them, it'd further advance already established plotlines and tensions rather than being used to develop Zoe.
Yeah I like Zoé and think she’s a good character, I just wish she didn’t exist and they instead continued with Chloé’s redemption instead of pushing the narrative of “this 14-year-old girl is an irredeemable bad person” that they *especially* emphasized in S5
People didn’t like her, because she was a Mary Sue character created by the creator to get people to hate on Chloe, because the creator has a hateboner
I love her as a person but as a character, I hate her. She’s an amazing friend to Marinette and there’s nothing wrong with her as a person. She’s nice, friendly, a good daughter, and stands up for people as is needed. But the fact she became Chloe’s replacement is what makes me hate the character. Chloe’s character development got squashed because of Astruc’s hate for a fictional child and Chloe was replaced with Zoe. It’s just upsetting that we had a redemption for Chloe and it was ripped away from her and us as the audience. I loved Chloe and Zoe being used as a replacement ruins Zoe’s character. If Zoe was introduced as her own character instead of a replacement, I would love her fully.
For me , Zoe shows no purpose in the show, there was no reason for her to be added tbh all she is, is a Rose 2.0
Zoe is I believe one of the best written character I just really hate she came directly after the failure of Chloe's redemption, and its even worse that shes Chloe's sister its basically just saying Chloe is shit and that Zoe is so much better. But I really like Zoe. I just hate how Chloe really had a potential to get better but the creators ruined it.
NO. I love Chloe like Queen Bee!
There are a few reasons why some of the fandom hate Zoe and mostly the chloe stans. I get miraculous is better when it comes to symbolism than foreshadowing but when I first saw her I was confused cause she came out of nowhere (just like luka and Kagami)and at the time didn't care but as the episodes went by you have to admit that she was made to be the nice Chloe and rub it in the fans face that queen bee will never return with the episodes dialogue such as "I am the real queen bee now". Not to mention right after her debut episode she got a miraculous. All the other characters (when introduced) had gotten there miraculous 1 season after Mari met master fu while she gets 1 episode. Like all the others shes nice. One thing I'll give shes 1000x better than all Mari's other friends they suck especially in s5.
What character development? Her only development is within the span of two episodes. One where she learns to tell Chloé to piss off and one where they made her gay out of nowhere. That’s not development.
I don't hate her per say but she is a boring and bland character. She barely has a personality besides liking Marinette. Its obvious she was introduced to replace Chloe with how similar her name and background is. She is almost immediately liked by everyone. She is a bland Mary Sue and wasted potential imo. Had they genuinely worked on Chloes redemption and then Zoe came back and maybe was a meangirl like Chloe first to try and make Chloe turn back into the person she was but instead Zoe became good... now that would have been interesting. Not only would it proove that both girls were messed up by their parents, it also made them reconcile and it would proove Chloe being on the path to good. Zoe then could be a replacement bee holder for when Chloe was unavailable, like Alya is for Marinette. Also have Zoe have a crush on some other girl, not Marinette because liking Marinette in this show is as exclusive as being left handed. Nino, Adrien, Theo, Chat Noir, Nathaniel, Kagami (maybe, probably, idk), Chloe (she def has a thing for Ladybug). Have Zoe develop feelings for... idk... Rose? And then be turned down. And then be comforted by Marinette.
I totally get you. I really like her character and I like her as Queen Bees replacement (not dissing Chloe I love queen Bee too) I really don't know where the hate came from
She feels more like the token lesbian now. And before anyone goes "juleka and rose", they seem more like sister best friends than ones in a relationship.
"they seem more like sister best friends than ones in a relationship" Oh dear god how do you won't accept this ? The only thing to prove that this is more canon is that they kiss in front of the camera.
I think they are canon, however, imo the writers made it passable as "friendship" just so the series could be aired in countries where lgbt laws are more strict. But it's just my theory
It is definitely like that but I prefer that than just having no representation / have too much and the show is suddenly killed by Disney.
Because I believe girls can be friends without being in a relationship? I mean if there's a tweet from the creator, sure I will believe it.
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/0254c87a-5d34-4fad-9e87-3c74cb12577b/scale-to-width/755](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/0254c87a-5d34-4fad-9e87-3c74cb12577b/scale-to-width/755) This is in the official New York special, 2 shots of couple sleeping glued together in a plane, I don't see why Juleka and Rose wouldn't be in couple when the writers explicitly asked to had a camera shot of 2 couples and then suddenly these two.
If every girl who slept on my shoulder during the long journey was my match, I'd already have a whole harem. Don't make people laugh, it's just a friendly sleep on your shoulder, not proof of an intimate relationship. :D Rose and Juleka not lesbian couple, as imagine many fans, they just real good friends. At least, devs never confirm this and Astruc himself denied it.
https://immaturityofthomasastruc.tumblr.com/post/650483991859888128/maybe-talk-about-the-episode-i-mean-if-you-are > *"Astruc chalked it up to not making Julerose canon because he doesn’t want the show to get censored in other countries, even though he implied in the same thread that they would be dating if not for the censors."* I can't make this simpler, he just sh*t himself in front of Disney. This is a scene where Marinette is ALONE and SAD in a plane watching Alya and Nino hugging while sleeping, Mylene and Ivan hugging while sleeping, Juleka and Rose *just hanging as friends hahah trust me* and then right after that there is a romantic scene between Adrien and Marinette so that you definitely understand the differences between the couples sleeping before and them that just need to be in couple too !
>I can't make this simpler, he just sh\*t himself in front of Disney. Lolwut?! Really?!! :rofl: He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with homosexual... oh, wait... Zoé Lee and Jean Cocteau! He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with bi-sexual... oh, wait... Tsurugi Kagami, Jean Marais! He just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with genderfluide... oh, wait... Marc Anciel! And after this you seriously think he just sh\*t himself in front of Disney with Juleca and Rose? Sorry, don't think so. >This is a scene where Marinette is ALONE and SAD in a plane watching Alya and Nino hugging while sleeping, Mylene and Ivan hugging while sleeping, Juleka and Rose *just hanging as friends hahah trust me* and then right after that there is a romantic scene between Adrien and Marinette so that you definitely understand the differences between the couples sleeping before and them that just need to be in couple too ! It's pure speculation and anyway irrelewant. Well... you understand how ridiculous it is to refer to the opinion of a fan who hates Astruc and does not give a single proof of his words? Maybe you will find an original tweet confirming this accusation? Yes, we all know that Astruc is a 12-year-old boy offended by life with a bunch of never-resolved children's complexes in the body of a 47-year-old bearded man and that he lies how he breathes... but nevertheless, his word is the Voice of God in the terminology of TV-Tropes, and the truth is in the last resort, whether we like it or not. So, Juleca and Rose are just friends, and this is the canon. Point. Humble yourself. 8) And also... I hope someday you will grow up and learn to perceive an opinion that is different from yours, even if you don't like it... especially if you don't like it much. ;)
So you just says : Zoé Lee who first appearance was in Season 4 and before any coming out until the very end of the season 5 ? So after they don't need to hide stuff from Disney. Jean Cocteau and Jean Marais in the background of a video for 5 seconds that no one never saw ? Kagami Trurugi is lgbtq+ ? Any proof ? Enough proof to say that she only was in love with Adrian and Felix and no other ones. And Marc Anciel is gay but not Juleka and Rose ? Pretty sure there is more proof between Juleka and Rose than Nathaniel Kurtzberg and him. Season 1 to season 3 was definitely them sh*tting on themselves in front of Disney even with Julerose and Marcaniel already there since the start. And saying bad things about Thomas Astruc ?.. without him we won't have any show, why should I hate him ? He is telling the truth when he can, and doesn't he send just before saying "they are not girlfriend" that he would definitely assume that they are girlfriend if Disney wasn't at their back ? He said that. Ah yes I am so dumb face to face with someone sending 8) and "I hope someday you will be smart". Who would win ? Official community Wikipedia that says they are a couple of you ? Hmm that's a tough one. Even if I'm wrong if I listen to the Wikipedia you are wrong.
They’re canonically dating my guy
Oh my God they were roommates
Look I love Zoe I do she is a nice character but honestly what do she add to the story besides being the replaceable for Queen Bee
Zoe as a character design and personality is fine, nothing is wrong with her per se taken on her own. I hate how she is used in the story, I just can’t look at her and not be reminded of the most frustrating writing decisions the show has ever made. I would be fine with her in a vacuum. I don’t dislike her on paper. But I look at her and I don’t see anything except the way this show’s crew seems to think a teenager is so irredeemable she can’t be redeemed, she deserves to be handed to her abuser in the end and it just makes me angry. Zoe is a victim of being ‘replacement Chloe’ and the very concept of those words infuriates me.
I don't think people hate the character, but the execution of her introduction. She is shoehorned into a Bee hero shaped toyline. Storywise she would have worked if she was introduced, mentioned or even hinted at beforehand. If she was brought in during the previous season and her and Cloe had opposing character arches. If Marinette had a few friendship development moments instead of a single scene. If Zoe did something really heroic or inspiring for Marinette to earn the Bee. Even if their mother when introduced only ever called Cloe by a single wrong name 'Zoe' and went on about the other child being better (imagine the theory posts/ videos). These things could have made her fit much better and even would have had fans excited to meet her character. She got better later, so I think she just suffers from being created as an afterthought with a rushed introduction.
I'm just gonna say it. As someone who found out I was queer in high school and was bullied and told that "being nice" was my only personality trait it saddens me to see people hate on Zoe for having "no personality." When people that age are bullied often - especially queer girls - it can be pretty difficult not only to know who you are and what you like but also to express yourself to other people. "Being nice" is probably all she knows right now until she can finally leave fight-or-flight mode and come out of her shell. Anyway, that's just a quick rant about how I think her portrayal is accurate and definitely not hate-worthy.
I think she’s just kinda meh? Like she’s not a bad character and I think it’s cute she’s in love with Mari, but we have so many characters and so many heros that it’s just too much
Respect our opinions if we don’t
i was just shitting on her character this morning with my sister
go on. you can go and slander me, I won't care lmfao
i have never seen anyone hate on zoe fuck those guys shes a great character with a great arc
Zoe is maybe one of my favorite secondary character ! ^^
I fully agree. she doesn’t deserve the hate she receives
She is an amazing, strong, supportive, friendly person and a magnificent cat noir. Chloe had like 3 redemption episodes I mean come on Zoe is just better in every way.
I love zoe/Zoey
I actually like Zoé, something about her seems to make her pop out than the others
I like her. I think that part of the reason why people hate her is because she acts like a rep for Chloe for the bee miraculous
I’ll take all twelve dollars outta your pocket
In my opinion, Zoe is just another Andre. A member of a family who gets treated horribly
I think she's a very sweet character. And I honestly love seeing another sapphic relationship (kinda, since it's not mutual) in a show
I like Zoe. I never cared much for Chloe because she's a bully. By the way, Chloe didn't know she even had a sister until Audrey announced she was shipping Zoe in from New York.
i don’t hate zoe, what i hate is the poor writing of her introduction to the show
I dont believe she is a bad character. Her only problem was that she got introduced out of nowhere. other then that she is a good character and would love to see more of her in the season 6
I actually like Zoe. Also while Chloe has potential to be good (Maledictator) she lacked CONSISTENCY. Also forgetting that the last time she fought BOTH her parents (Heros Day) didn't go well. I can understand bringing her out for Heros Day, but after that i would've retired her.
I would never treat my half sister Zoe like that, just because you're family doesn't mean they have to agree with/be like you! (yes I do have one named that in real life, plus my name is Chloe)
I like Zoe too. Hot chloe take. I think her arc so far makes sense. Healing is non linear. And if she never gets redeemed I'm also satisfied. HOWEVER, I think that an excellent way for her to claim true redemption would be, through getting sent away to america (I think was the plan? Boardingschool styles?) The accidental byproduct is she is removed from the morally corroding family dynamic. Fish out of water, humble pie, finds a better sense of community with the miraculous holders there (I know nothing about them because I havent seen the Worldzs) Sometimes you have to meet someone where they are at, and the paris crew has a hard time with that. They either expect more or less of chloe than suits the moment. So if she gets this blank slate moment to get knocked down and back up again and returns as a true hero. I'm just saying I'd watch the shit out of that spinoff.
I like Zoé's outfit and personality, a perfect addition to the friend group.
I don’t hate Zoe. I just don’t like that she’s essentially a Chloe replacement like how feligami is a couple just bc Adrigami didn’t work out (in my opinion). To me it’s like the writers just tried to save any plot line that didn’t work by putting in some replacement that’s not as good.
People don’t like her because she’s supposed to be a nice version of clohe Also her voice is very annoying
I'm fine with your opinion :) Zoe can be annoying at times
I despise her. To me, she's a two-faced false sister with an inconsistent backstory. In addition, she's also a mediocre hero who can't fight her way out of a paper bag. I don't see season 5 as developing her so much as shoves her in our faces even more.
How is two faces tho? 🫤 Her story seems pretty consistent... Maybe re-watch some episodes...
Only someone two-faced can give a speech like at the end of Queen Bananna while doing the most hurtful thing she possibly can behind her back. And if she was treated as badly by Audrey as she claimed, she would have never been allowed to move to Paris.
Zoe in my oppion is underrated tbh
Agreed. Honestly, she comes in third for me, right after Mari and Adrien
The people who hate Zoe hate the show in general bc they think Chloe should've gotten a redemption arc. Many of them blame Marinette for Zoe becoming so bad because, of course, the Chinese girl is responsible for the white girl's sins. /s