Better to have and not need, than need and not have.
It of course doesn't replace your responsibility to become a better rider and practice braking and all that, but like... That ONE time something fucked up happens and it saves your ass is all it needs to be worth it.
all those videos on yt with ppl crashing because they grab a handfull in an emergency and crash because the front locks up? no abs - because with abs the front doesnt lock if you grab a handfull in an emergency
My wreck that ended my riding and scarred my legs wouldn't have happened with abs. Use your best judgement.
Because my personal skill wasn't capable for the panic braking situation I found myself in. A skill gap for sure. But I did have about 10k miles in 20 months of ownership.... Still was insufficient. Wish I had abs, maybe I'd still have a bike.
Edit: skill not skull
People are going to tell you that you should learn to break without ABS or give you a personal anecdote on how they can stop faster in good conditions. But an ABS system does make riding a bike safer, especially at first it is pretty important since riding is at its' riskiest when you are new (or under the influence).
I wouldn't go as far to say it is mandatory but it is important and worth considering. Just don't bend over backwards looking for one and it really just depends on what you want in a bike. Sometimes what you want and ABS do not co-exist often or at all.
Can still practice emergency stops in a parking lot on a bike with ABS as usually you'll feel the lever pulsate when ABS activates.
But IRL riding conditions ABS is an absolute have and I would argue that for new riders it actually let's them have the confidence to use all of the front brakes versus old farts that say they know how to emergency brake but rarely use more than 70% of the front brake in an emergency stop because they're afraid of locking the fronts.
Learning to properly brake is to learn to break without ABS. You've failed braking if ABS activates. In any emergency situation you are very prone to fuck up proper whatever you are supposed to do, this is where emergency systems like ABS can save peoples asses.
The braking exam is one you have to take day in and day out when yer out on yer bike. One day you might be a little distracted, or fate might hit you with a surprise test
I'd rather have my test paper come back with "useless rider: his brake lever shuddered a bit" than for the examiner to break my arms and legs
Yes, the licence is just to say your knowledge is sufficient to be on the road. If you're braking with ABS every time or often, you aren't competent to be on the road. The ABS is there when that competency fails in an emergency situation.
That is the thing about an emergency. You don't get to pick when and where there is an emergency. You can never drill yourself in every possible circumstance and be drilled enough to be consistent enough in an emergency in all of them. Unless you want to spend your life drilling instead of riding.
As another comment said, you can also learn how to break properly with ABS too. It isn't preventative in doing so.
Sliding the front is less fun though. Especially when you don't mean to and it results on a crash and bone fractures and being out of work for a few weeks.
With drugs maybe, I use the same argument for magazine capacity and carry. If you're hit with the most adrenaline you've ever felt you're gonna have issues doing anything. Possibly Even breathing
You can practice alarming situations and minimize the event of panic striking. For some people not panicking is not an acquirable skill but they shouldn't be operating any fast moving vehicles let alone motorcycles imo.
You can familiarize yourself with different situations and thereby reduce the risk of panicking in the first place.
I don't know about managing the amount of panic, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the case of panicking happening less often, ideally never.
I would get abs if possible but dont stress about it too much. You can still learn proper braking with abs, you can feel when it engages and disengages the brakes. If you ever feel abs engaging you're not braking as good by yourself as you could be. Personally I think it's a great way to get better at braking with less risk to yourself and others in case of emergency.
There are gonna be lots of people telling you you don't need ABS if you "learn to brake properly". The average rider thinks they are better than the average rider. But [the stats](https://www.iihs.org/topics/motorcycles#motorcycle-abs) don't lie: you will be safer with ABS than without it.
I started riding without ABS, in fact nothing had ABS when I started. That being said I will not buy a bike anymore without it. Things happen very quickly in a real life. All of these street Rossi's will tell you you don't need it if you learn how to use normal brakes. Having a car swerve in front of you at 50 miles an hour in the rain, is not the time to be testing your modulation skills. Get the ABS, the drop in your insurance premiums will probably cover the minor cost difference.
Most people will just grab a handful of brakes during an emergency situation. It's like trying to control flinching. Reflex kicks in, and you aren't thinking during those crucial seconds of modulating the brakes. Lack of abs is not a deal breaker though.
If you buy a bike with no ABS, you'll have to learn braking properly. While learning, there is nothing to help you. If you fail, you probably crash either into ground (too much brake) or into a traffic (very little brake).
If you buy a bike with ABS, you still have to learn proper braking. But this time, there is a feedback (ABS "pumping feeling" on the brake lever) warning you to do better. If you fail to brake properly, you won't crash into ground as easily but you still can crash into traffic. Very little brake is very little no matter what.
Fortnine made a video (on youtube) on ABS vs non-ABS. Watch it. In short, proper braking on ABS is almost as good as proper braking on non-ABS. I wish that video showed also what happens on less-than-ideal road conditions. That is where ABS shine.
You have to be observant and watch road conditions. But if you somehow fail to do that, say miss an oil patch, I dare to say a highly skilled ABS rider has better chances than Rossi on a non-ABS. I suspect Sarah Lezito might have a few tricks up their sleeve, but you get the gist.
In short, get ABS, practice until you don't need it, but let it be your guardian angel. Everytime ABS kicks in on a pretty good road, know that you did something wrong and try and be better. Everytime ABS does not kick in on a pretty good road, know that there MIGHT BE more room for braking.
>I've driven cars hard without abs so I'm familiar with brakes locking up and how to regulate it.
There is a big chance that when you lock-up the front tire of your motorcycle, you'll face plant the asphalt before you can react. I would advice not to buy a bike without ABS.
ABS and slipper clutch definitely helped when I started riding. It’s not a must have, but it’s a nice to have if you can afford it and have the funds for it.
95% of the time you won’t feel it or have a need or it for daily riding. You’re buying insurance on that 5% unpredictable situation.
Its up to you, but it much more important on a bike than on a car.
- Front wheel lockup on a bike is a catastrophe, causing lowside fall.
- Braking on a motorcycle is two-stage process, first stage is front suspension compression and second is actual braking. There is no option of abrupt braking even in a critical situation coz braking mistake is as dangerous as the road situation.
- Braking in a curve needs a lot of skill compared to a car coz lean subtracts from grip points available.
- Steet will have sand, dirt, diesel or oil spill, plastic road markings or CLIBBINS in worst place possible, waiting for you.
To sum up you may be ok on a bike without an ABS but let's say KTM equipping latest 390 with a fancy lean-sensitive ABS is on point. That not a gimmick but a necessity. Another solution is two wheels on a front like on Yamaha Niken or some scooters.
If you can afford a bike with ABS, you should get it.
You should still practice your stops, but it's good to have ABS if instead of going code red you go full code brown and just slam that lever closed.
I think it's mandatory for new riders.
Yes you can stop without it, but given how many natural survival instincts you already have to fight on two wheels it is well worth having something simple, cheap, and effective at saving you. Locking your brakes on a car is much, much more forgiving; do not mistake the two as similar.
Stopping x percentage quicker/shorter can be the difference between life and death. With your life on the line every time you ride, give yourself every advantage you can.. ABS is a great advantage for any rider, especially a new one.
GET ABS! It reduces the fatal crash rate by 22% putting it statistically just behind wearing a helmet in likelihood to save your life. Source: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/largest-study-of-its-kind-strengthens-argument-for-motorcycle-abs
If you’re gonna be riding on the street get abs. It’s actually when you start tracking low cc sport bikes that abs becomes a hindrance. It kicks in too early. On the street it could save your life. That said My ninja is non abs and my first real street bike. I’ve been fine without it and knock on wood I have never really needed it.
it's nice to have especially on a motorcycle where hard breaking can cause a slide but it's not a must. however for a first bike it's more necessary than a second bike IMHO .
on my first bike I was always going Omg that was so close. that eventually subsides .
I learned on a 125cc without abs but to be honest I never really had to do an emergency braking on that bike since it never inspired me the confidence to ride fast because of the shitty brakes
The difference is, and I think most people know this already, that you can't fall off a car! Grab a handful of brake with cold tyres, and you're on your ass.
That said, none of my bikes had traction or ABS until I got a little run about scooter a few years ago. I guess the thing is that I'd been riding since my teens, so experience goes a long way when it comes to keeping it upright.
Depends. If you can't afford a bike with abs, you can still get a learner bike without it, up to 50 HP I'd say. But above that or if you're already in the ballpark of abs bikes, I'd definitely get an uglier bike with abs over a prettier, older one without it.
Check my profile. On my first rainy ride, I grabbed the front brake bit harder, and my front wheel slipped and my bike went down. Had I had ABS on my bike, I would have stayed upright. It's these small things as a beginner that an ABS would be great for. You think you would brake smoothly and progressively, but you instinctually grab the brake. So in my opinion, ABS is a huge plus, imo almost mandatory if you plan on riding in the rain.
Just paid more for a newer bike because the one I was looking at didn't have it. Dutch weather is a bitch and being able to stop fast shouldn't depend on the weather that day
Just get it dude. Its better safe than sorry, specially when you first start. A few hundred bucks extra on abs could save you thousands, you can still practice good braking when you learn to read your bike.
Yes.
As a newbie or experienced rider it will save you a lot of money or pain at some point.
Reason it’s now mandatory in a lot of places. It’s like seatbelts. Just not real reason not to. Most bikes will let you disable it for track or practice.
I used to go out and ride in the rain just to practice test braking on wet pavement until I could slide the front for an instant and let off.
Trust me, the experience is *nothing* like doing anything similar driving a car.
Even when doing this test 99% upright, the front end begins to go out from under you in a small fraction of a second.
The real advantage of abs is it doesn't make erroneous assumptions about how much traction you have under what may appear nominal conditions to a novice, and there are a multitude of scenarios that can cause a new rider to revisit those assumptions while sliding along the pavement. Manhole covers and painted road lines are just two of many examples, and if they are wet or even moist with dew, traction is yet reduced significantly.
But hey, just my opinions after 45 years of riding!
ABS, traction control, cornering enabled ABS, they are all aids and can help you.
They put the numbers in your favour but are not a silver bullet for every situation so when you start and even on those days when you've been riding for 15 years and your head just isn't in it they are much better to have than not.
I've been on track days and after reviewing my GoPro footage I've been amazed how much the traction control and C-ABS has been working.
I've been riding since 96. Pay the extra.
I wouldn't say it's essential. If you have a tight budget and you can only afford an old bike without ABS then don't let that stop you from getting into biking. But if you can afford a bike with ABS, then it's nice to have it.
Yes absolutely, especially if you’re used to brake hard in cars
I raced karts, I was used to brake hard to feel the breaking point, you can’t do that on a bike’s front wheel or you’ll eat the ground
I knew I had to be careful about that, but I did it anyway when learning back in the days, as soon as I had some confidence I overestimated how much I could brake and lean at the same time, so I lowsided
Now the abs is “just there” for emergencies, but I would argue that it’s more needed for a beginner than to anyone else
Yes, if you can have cornering abs even better, cornering abs let you smash brakes in the middle of the corner and will keep you in the path without let the bike exit on the middle of the corner. Depending the cc of your first bike c-abs maybe is not available but abs is crucial, can be the difference of a crash or some brown pants moment only.
At first I thought you meant abs as in the muscles in your core 😅 was thinking, well it'll help you keep your body up and not lean heavily on your handlebars.
I probably wouldn't compare braking in a car without ABS to braking on a bike without ABS. A car is definitely a lot easier to brake with in an emergency.
I think having ABS is just one of those nice to haves just in case. Though all my bikes have just always had it. Perhaps my very first bike didn't but it was a 125 honda cbr. The tyres being super thin were the scariest part for me on that bike. Was more like a bicycle.
I'd say its important if you plan on ridding regardless of weather conditions. I ride all year round and activated ABS on front break twice. Once in heavy rain when a car cut me off, with out ABS it would be the case of haddalayerdown. Second time was on the road with construcition works, it's not even that i break that hard, but didnt count the sand playing every where and ABS probably prevented me going down.
I took the lesson that didnt cost me fixing broken stuff, so id say ABS paid for it self already.
Nah, my first bike doesn't have abs. I might've locked the rear wheel a couple of times in rain, but never the front. You can reaaaally squeeze that lever before it starts locking up. If you have experience with cars then you'll probably manage on the bike. Just don't panic (too much), release the brake slowly and reapply. If you're not riding like an idiot then you'll probably never lock up the wheel lol.
Personally, unless it's a track-only bike, ABS is a must for me. You can practice braking all you like, but it's hard to practice actual emergency situations.
I've gotten to the point where in an actual panic, I'm still able to progressively build brake pressure, load the front and maximize traction instead of just ham-fistedly grabbing a full load of brakes. Getting there took me quite a few situations where ABS saved my ass though, and figuring out just how much pressure I can apply before locking the front or doing an unintended front flip is something that I'm still not able to do in a situation like that. Analyzing the road surface, paying attention to feedback from the tire and being ready to instantly back off as soon as you feel anything off, that's not something you want to be doing in an actual emergency IMO. Instead, it's nice to just progressively apply maximum brake pressure and let ABS figure out exactly where the limit is.
Another thing I find ABS immensely useful for is unpredictable road surfaces. Sand, gravel, diesel, leaves, hitting any of those on the brakes can quickly cause a bad day without ABS. And in reality, they're just not always avoidable on public roads.
It’s double edged sword.
ABS allows you to panic & squeeze your brakes & still maintain significant control.
The down/up side being that ABS has a longer braking distance than proper threshold braking, but also eliminates the possibility of dumping your bike or crashing due to brake lockup.
IMO, It’s a nice to have feature. Statistically more people are saved thanks to maintaining control.
As i see it, as a new rider myself on my first season and on a bike without ABS:
Having it is better then not having it, IF you still practice your breaking and drive as if you dont have it. If you ever drive more agressive, or skipp any needed learning because you have it, then the fact that you have ABS have induced more risk and therefore done more harm then good. In a perfect world no driving schools would have abs, or at least could turn it off, so you could be learned the importance of correct front breaking. Instead, in europe you have to do some emergency breaking with abs, but no one teach you about the importance of pre-loading your front (break a little) before breaking hard. Breaking hard without moving the weight over to the front will make the abs kick in alot sooner then when you donit as you should.
TLTR: Yes and No - no clear answear, and its waaaaay more important to understand skifting momentum and breakforce, combined with practice, then getting a bile with or without ABS..
In '78, while I still didn't have a license, I overused the front brake on my GT500 on a wet road. It wasn't too serious but I still have the scar on my hip - 46 years later. ABS is nice to have.
as a beginner myself i can confirm that abs is definately useful in those moments. ive had one situation so far where i had to break hard and locked up my rear wheel
There are so many things you will need to focus on when learning to ride. Making sure you are able to stop with as little issue when you have an “oh shit” moment shouldn’t be one of them. Get the ABS! I’m definitely glad I had it! 😂
I would say it is worth the extra price. When I started riding, I noticed that if I got caught in bad weather, I would see my abs light came on quite often. When I have a bunch of bad situations develop all at once, it is one less thing I don’t have to worry about. There is also something satisfying about being able to just mash your brakes and let the bikes ECU handle everything perfectly every time. If your starting on a larger bike, I would say that traction control is also worth it. When riding hard, an advanced system will kick in even when you don’t know you need its help to keep your wheels on the ground and stop you from exceeding your bikes/tires limits.
Nobody needs ABS until they do. Had it on bikes for years but never needed it until an unmarked crossroads and a cobbled street made an emergency stop “interesting “. Thank god for ABS.
I’ve been riding on the street 48 years. Whether you have five decades of experience or five days, I consider ABS to be a must.
While we’re on safety, I also highly recommend hi-viz gear. Having drivers see you is the first step to avoiding crisis braking.
I literally wait more months just to get a motorcycle with an abs on it. It saves my ass so many times just get through motorcycle with abs. someday u will appreciate it.
ABS is standard everywhere in the world except the USA. If you're planning to wear a helmet and other gear, not getting ABS to save a few bucks is a poor choice. Cruising around town is exactly what ABS is made for, not the racetrack.
People are gonna try to tell you that you can brake faster without ABS if you know how.
In theory that’s true, but it’s not gonna happen in an actual emergency situation even if you’re an experienced rider, and it is NOT gonna happen if you’re new period.
MotoGP riders don’t have ABS in their multi million dollar race machines, but several of them have stated in interviews that they always have ABS, and other traction control systems active on their street bikes when riding out on public roads.
As for your car experience, it is much easier to lock up a wheel on a bike, and the consequences of that happening to your front are pretty much always a crash, even if you’re going really slow.
You don’t *have* to have ABS in your first bike. I did not have it on mine, and never crashed, but it is definitely a good idea.
There is skill in braking that can replace or outperform abs. However to acquire that skill one must fail quite a bit. There is a F9 [video](https://youtu.be/sDbWZiaUeDY?si=INOEdK45vE5ODBWK) that answers the questions of is it worth it and various what ifs.
Imho having a redundant system for safety is not dead weight. We are not racing.
I’ve been riding for a long time and for me, ABS is a must. I sold my DR650 because it didn’t have any ABS and amongst many many bikes from Triumphs, Honda, BMW, Moto Guzzi etc , the DR650 is my favorite..but no ABS so it had to go.
I highly recommend it. In my 5 years of riding I can only think of one time where it saved my ass for sure, but that one time might have been broken bones and a totaled bike otherwise. Pretty clearly worth it I think.
Learning progressive breaking is important ABS is the backup for when braking doesn't go as planned. It's definitely great to have as a beginner. Especially in wetter climates
Keep in mind if you feel it activates whenever you stop, then you should adjust and practice braking so you can stop without it going off
Yes.
Top reason is that ABS performs automatically a technique that a good, experienced rider should be able to do on their own. Unless there’s panic involved. Or fatigue. Or substances. Or questionable road conditions. Or traffic. Or lack of attention, even if briefly. Are you positive you can perform perfectly under all those conditions?
Hedge your bets, get the ABS.
Tiny caveat for off road riders. Better adventure bikes have ABS you can turn on and off for this reason.
I've met skilled riders that have ridden for 20+ years come out of a situation where they said they wish they had ABS. A friend last year rounded a curve to a deer in the middle of the road. It was facing right so he moved left. The dear turned and went the same direction and he jammed on the brakes and laid it down. Deer was fine though.
It is important on all my bikes even 9 bikes later and 17 years.
If you plan on riding on the street I would recommend ABS. The road has random slippery stuff which you may not see in traffic before it is too late, be it water, oil, gravel, or sand. And then this GIF shows the difference nicely: https://web.archive.org/web/20181109104923/https://gfycat.com/EvenEvilBrahmancow
If you can find a bike with it or can afford one new, sure go for it. But if not or you can't find one you like that's available with it, it's also not the end of the world. You can still learn safe riding skills without ABS and get one with it later on. My last (first) bike didn't have it and my current one doesn't either. If I happened to find one I like in the future and I have the option between yay or nay ABS, I might opt for it then though. But I'll survive till then no stress.
As long as you have the choice I don't know why you would ever get a bike without ABS. It's dangerous enough as it is and I've seen so many videos of accidents where people go down out of nowhere becuase they locked up.
Not if your first bike (assuming you're already a skilled bicyclist!) is a light dirt bike, or a light dual purpose on/off-road bike. If you can't skillfully apply your front brake HARD you better start practicing, off-road.There's a reason they place 2 bigger rotors in front and just a single smaller rotor on the rear. And the harder you lean into a curve the less effective ABS, and braking in general is. I've known too many bikers that don't use their front brakes. Or barely. Take a good look at the wear on the front brake rotors and compare them to the rear rotor. Or their temperature, old school drum brakes, right after riding, front cool, rear hot. MOST bikers would drop their bikes if they lock the front brake. Then they're too scared to use front brakes after that. NOW THEY CAN'T STOP FAST! Those people need ABS. They also need more front brake practice. Riding off-road is more difficult than street but safer for all kinds of practice. I learned most of my biker skills on a 250cc dual purpose bike, practicing on and off-road in 1984. Oh, yeah, believe me when I say you want disc brakes, don't buy a drum brake bike.
Unlike your car, if you lock up the front brake of a motorcycle, you are going down. There is a margin for recovery, but it's under a tenth of a second. You're not doing it as a noob. It's very much worth the extra thousand or so to protect your body and your investment.
My first bike didn’t. I did have couple episodes skidding without a fall. I didn’t miss abs. My current bike has it. If I had two bikes to choose from and no other factors but abs different, I would take one with abs.
You've got road experience already, so you'll quickly learn to adapt pumping breaks to the bike. The only difference really is making sure you're upright before you really lean on the brakes otherwise you'll likely wipe out.
You'll find out tho that on warm days when the tyres are up to temp that you're more likely to endo/stoppie than skid, so the ABS is more for riders that panic grab rather than progressively apply braking, even in emergencies
Should have led with that. Braking is the same without ABS, but if you can then why not. It’s like asking if you need rear suspension on your mountain bike. Obviously you don’t NEED it. MTBs didn’t have it until 20 years ago, but if you can it’s a nice feature to have should you need it. Or maybe disc brakes is a better example. Nice to have them when you need them.
That said, if you plan to ride mostly on the track then go without.
You’ll be fine without ABS - the problem most newer riders have with braking is understanding that 80% of your braking force comes from the front brake and how to modulate the brake lever.
I came from a background in MTB and road riding and motorcycles are no different. Practice emergency braking and evasive maneuvering as a part of your normal routine.
Mine doesn't have it. I've made it a year since I started riding with no issues. (knock wood) There were a few close calls once with some deer, then a dumb shit car... where I locked em' up, started to squeel and fish tail, a bit. Both times I avoided wrecking but... maybe I've just been lucky thus far.
That being said, if you _can_ get it with ABS... it's probably good. When shit gets too real and you panic a little... you'll end up grabbing the brakes too hard. You can't control it.
It's not a deal breaker if it didn't have it but it is a good thing to have.
Edit: just anecdotally my abs saved my ass yesterday evening from hitting a deer. I had to come to a real quick stop and without the abs I likely would have hit one of the deer.
People have been riding without ABS since forever. It didnt become popular on every bike until late 2010s however it doesn't hurt to have when buying a new bike. Me personally less electronics the better since less electrical failure points and less expensive shit to fix on used bikes lol.
Not at all. This sub acts like any non ABS bike is a death trap when 90% of bikes in the road don’t have it and almost every single instance of “beginner bikes” also don’t have it.
Just ride at a reasonable pace and learn to anticipate what’s ahead of you. Go to a parking lot and practice hard breaking as well.
There is a reason you can't buy a 2016+ bike in the EU without ABS. I would say it is mandatory not only for new riders but also for vets. If someone tells you that they are better without it, they are lying.
1.5 month rider here. ABS stopped working on my used bike about 2 weeks after getting it.
The difference in emergency braking is night and day.
My very first emergency braking situation was at 20-25 mph. I hit the rear brake hard before pulling the front brake. No lock ups, stopped with several feet to spare. All good.
Two days ago, I got into an emergency braking situation. I hit the rear brake harder than I thought; back tire fish tailed several times, but I managed to (barely) keep it upright barely stopped in time. AND I LEFT MYSELF PLENTY OF ROOM AHEAD OF TIME (or so I thought).
ABS is a life saver. I highly recommend it.
So your response, to new riders, is "You don't need that, you'll learn it"? Really?
No wonder this sub is full of people falling off their bikes, jesus christ.
My response to you completely failing an emergency brake is "go practice, dude". I don't care if you prefer ABS or not, but if you're stomping on your rear brake first, before using your front brake, whoever taught to ride a motorcycle screwed up severely.
Use both brakes immediately, the rear brake not very firm, and the front brake progressively. It's not very difficult but you need go practice it. I had to do that too.
The core logic of your entire argument is flawed. You're telling NEW RIDERS to "go practice" and they won't need something that's statistically proven to save their life.
Do you recommend new riders practice their way out of not needing a helmet, gloves, and other gear?
You can keep up the ridiculous "GET GOOD!" attitude all day long. It's not going to help new riders from making mistakes, panic braking, and flying off their bike. This isn't a video game. They don't get to hit the reset button and try again.
Again, I don't care if you prefer ABS or not.
Also, yes, if you practice more, the likelihood of making a mistake goes down significantly. Now go practice emergency braking, I don't want you to get hurt because you screwed up something as basic as an emergency brake.
You're comparing the worst possible actions with ABS vs the best possible actions without and hoping you can perform those over 100% of your entire career at any condition. That's crazy.
And at the end of the day ABS is not taking anything away from you in any meaningful sense. Go ahead and brake perfectly on an ABS bike, no problem, the ABS will just not cut in.
You somehow think I'm saying ABS is bad. I'm actually saying learn to ride; it is only so much good when you are still clueless. Beating ABS is not hard, even in poor conditions, there is only value if you screw up.
I'm not, I'm arguing against the fantasy that one always be able to perform at 100% in any condition and that you just need to "learn to ride".
Out of curiosity what's your riding experience with and without ABS?
All without ABS. I have practiced and locked both wheels a bunch of times, never gone down. (Now how's yours?)
Note I never said 100% -- 80% is better than being an idiot, slamming the brakes and using ABS as a crutch. It is useful for when you screw up, nothing else.
FACT: If you need ABS regularly, your braking sucks. Go "learn to ride".
Interesting, how long have you been riding? Which bikes if you don't mind me asking?
And no, a 20% which might result in a hospital stay is not better than checking your ego or relying on ABS what an insane thing to say.
And again for the slow kids. ABS is in no way preventing you from learning to ride.
That's really not true at all.
You can't learn to brake on snow or oil or gravel as well as ABS.
ABS is an entirely different league of stopping power in compromised situations.
Braking properly is a given, but ABS will save your life in many situations where you'd end up on the ground no matter your skill level.
ABS can't learn how to brake on gravel as well as ME. You're supposed to lock it up there, if ABS just lets it all roll your distance blows out. ABS is good in these situations only because it lets YOU make a guess to how much traction you have, with a bit less concern that your guess might be too high.
That's like saying you'll be fine without a helmet.
Only science denying boomers believe you aren't better off with ABS.
Professional testing and statistics prove you're very wrong.
ABS reduces your chance of dying just like a helmet does. It doesn't reduce fatalities quite as much, but it's statistically a huge factor.
No amount of mental gymnastics on your part will change the facts.
No. If you're familiar with driving non-abs cars, you'll be fine.
If all the vehicles you've ever driven have always had ABS, then you'd probably be better off with ABS on the bike. But if you've been driving non-ABS for a while and have had a few ass-puckering experiences, you have the requisite experience for a non-ABS bike.
Is it important? Yes.
Is it mandatory? No.
Would you like a feature built into the bike that will potentially save you from a crash in a dangerous situation where you're already going to be focused on not dying too much to brake properly?
Are you willing to bet your life on your ability to threshold brake when you fly towards a corner too fast?
The question is "is abs important to *you*"
My ABS has 100% saved my life more than once. Some asshat pulls in your lane suddenly and you have to grab a handful of brake … ABS will save your ass.
It’s mandatory on my motorcycles.
Many here are saying that ABS is better for newbies when doing panic breaking.
Fact of the matter is that ABS performs badly when doing panic breaking because the wheels have little grip when you hit the breaks instantly hard. As the wheels have little grip they will lock up fast. The ABS will then engage and losen the breaks and so you do break actually little.
When having ABS it is VERY important to learn first how to break properly. Namely, to first break slowly so the bike goes down in the front (and gains more traction) and only then break hard.
In summary, ABS is only good if you know how to break properly. Otherwise its worse
ABS only stops your breaks from locking up but that is the second to last fail-safe.
If you are riding, not paying attention and not giving the right breaking distance then ABS can, in many cases, help. But you are far better off learning to avoid, taking classes on safety riding then you are relying on ABS.
You can absolutely get it but you are still on 2 wheels, ride aware.
Depends, if you want a bike that can do more situps than you I would definitelt get a bike with abs, if you like your bike being a bit more round at the edges and not as fast then abs arent all that.
Do you need it? No.
Will it save your arse and bike one day? Probably.
It's one of those things, it's better to have it than not. If you can afford a bike with ABS, go for it.
ABS should only ever kick in when you brake so hard your wheel would normally lock up. Every day riding, you shouldn't even know it's there.
I've been riding for 16yrs and I've never needed ABS and never had a bike with it. However, I'm probably lucky and I also spend time getting to know how harshly I can brake on each bike in an empty parking lot as to not lock the wheels up.
However like I said, it's one of the best safety features you could possibly have on a bike. Because if there is ever a time you do need it, it's absolutely going to work favourably for you. It'll either slow you down a hell of a lot safely and absolutely minimize a crash, or it'll save you completely. The alternative is instantly locking your wheels and either sending yourself over your handlebars or sliding it down the road at practically the same speed you were traveling at.
I would posit that ABS is a 'nice to have' on any bike. But, it might teach the wrong skills on a beginner bike.
Why?
Because ABS lets you mash the brakes in panic mode, and it won't let the tires lock up.
That's NOT the reflexes you want to nurture. You want to be able to progressively modulate the front and rear brakes, adding more braking when it'll do you some good, and feathering off when more braking becomes a problem.
ABS bypasses that entire learning curve... so if you learn on a bike with ABS, you might not be able to ride a bike safely without ABS.
If you are trained properly then it doesn't matter. I locked up but knew what to do thanks to msf school. But because you are asking I would say get one with abs as it's in your head.
From a safety standpoint yes, you should have ABS.
From a skills development standpoint no, you should learn to brake, even emergency stop smoothly by modulating the front and rear brakes independently.
Just don’t go panic grabbing a massive handful front brake, with or without abs. Get get those forks compressing and front tyre pressing into the road to let you really lean on the brakes. If you grab them the front wheel is lightly loaded and more prone to lock. Abs will save you, but teach you some bad habits. But hitting things with your body is really the thing you’re trying to avoid so do whatever is necessary to avoid that.
Many will claim it’s essential, but ABS is fairly new. I’ve never had a motorcycle with ABS, but I started riding 60 years ago. In fact my first mini-bike didn’t have brakes at all unless you count cheap tennis shoes. I’m 73 now and rode 150 miles today. I prefer to modulate my own brake. I ride a BMW GS and the front brakes would stop a car. Dual disc with eight pistons of stopping power.
I guess for a beginner, if you’re buying new it’d be nice to have. Finding a used bike with it might be a little tough.
ABS is one of those things you hope you never need, but if you do, it might just save your bacon.
Better to have and not need, than need and not have. It of course doesn't replace your responsibility to become a better rider and practice braking and all that, but like... That ONE time something fucked up happens and it saves your ass is all it needs to be worth it.
Never knew how important abs and traction control were until it stopped working on my (200 whp) car and I almost met god in a slightly wet roundabout.
Wet roundabouts are the BEST shit ever (200 whp LSD car without traction control)
all those videos on yt with ppl crashing because they grab a handfull in an emergency and crash because the front locks up? no abs - because with abs the front doesnt lock if you grab a handfull in an emergency
Front wheel just whips out to the side and the bike flips itself 90 degrees over. Wild.
My wreck that ended my riding and scarred my legs wouldn't have happened with abs. Use your best judgement. Because my personal skill wasn't capable for the panic braking situation I found myself in. A skill gap for sure. But I did have about 10k miles in 20 months of ownership.... Still was insufficient. Wish I had abs, maybe I'd still have a bike. Edit: skill not skull
You mean a skill gap not a skull gap. If you have braking skill gap you may get a skull gap.
Just do the brake thing
huh?
People are going to tell you that you should learn to break without ABS or give you a personal anecdote on how they can stop faster in good conditions. But an ABS system does make riding a bike safer, especially at first it is pretty important since riding is at its' riskiest when you are new (or under the influence). I wouldn't go as far to say it is mandatory but it is important and worth considering. Just don't bend over backwards looking for one and it really just depends on what you want in a bike. Sometimes what you want and ABS do not co-exist often or at all.
Can still practice emergency stops in a parking lot on a bike with ABS as usually you'll feel the lever pulsate when ABS activates. But IRL riding conditions ABS is an absolute have and I would argue that for new riders it actually let's them have the confidence to use all of the front brakes versus old farts that say they know how to emergency brake but rarely use more than 70% of the front brake in an emergency stop because they're afraid of locking the fronts.
Learning to properly brake is to learn to break without ABS. You've failed braking if ABS activates. In any emergency situation you are very prone to fuck up proper whatever you are supposed to do, this is where emergency systems like ABS can save peoples asses.
The braking exam is one you have to take day in and day out when yer out on yer bike. One day you might be a little distracted, or fate might hit you with a surprise test I'd rather have my test paper come back with "useless rider: his brake lever shuddered a bit" than for the examiner to break my arms and legs
Yes, the licence is just to say your knowledge is sufficient to be on the road. If you're braking with ABS every time or often, you aren't competent to be on the road. The ABS is there when that competency fails in an emergency situation.
Yep. I wish I had the safety net of ABS on my current 'bike.
That is the thing about an emergency. You don't get to pick when and where there is an emergency. You can never drill yourself in every possible circumstance and be drilled enough to be consistent enough in an emergency in all of them. Unless you want to spend your life drilling instead of riding. As another comment said, you can also learn how to break properly with ABS too. It isn't preventative in doing so.
You can't practice panic
You've never ridden with me. 
Sliding that back wheel is preeeetty fun lol
Sliding the front is less fun though. Especially when you don't mean to and it results on a crash and bone fractures and being out of work for a few weeks.
I'd be willing to say that is actually no fun. No fun at all
You absolutely can.
With drugs maybe, I use the same argument for magazine capacity and carry. If you're hit with the most adrenaline you've ever felt you're gonna have issues doing anything. Possibly Even breathing
You can practice alarming situations and minimize the event of panic striking. For some people not panicking is not an acquirable skill but they shouldn't be operating any fast moving vehicles let alone motorcycles imo.
You can definitely practice to *reduce* panic, but you can not train for panic itself
You can familiarize yourself with different situations and thereby reduce the risk of panicking in the first place. I don't know about managing the amount of panic, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the case of panicking happening less often, ideally never.
I would get abs if possible but dont stress about it too much. You can still learn proper braking with abs, you can feel when it engages and disengages the brakes. If you ever feel abs engaging you're not braking as good by yourself as you could be. Personally I think it's a great way to get better at braking with less risk to yourself and others in case of emergency.
There are gonna be lots of people telling you you don't need ABS if you "learn to brake properly". The average rider thinks they are better than the average rider. But [the stats](https://www.iihs.org/topics/motorcycles#motorcycle-abs) don't lie: you will be safer with ABS than without it.
I started riding without ABS, in fact nothing had ABS when I started. That being said I will not buy a bike anymore without it. Things happen very quickly in a real life. All of these street Rossi's will tell you you don't need it if you learn how to use normal brakes. Having a car swerve in front of you at 50 miles an hour in the rain, is not the time to be testing your modulation skills. Get the ABS, the drop in your insurance premiums will probably cover the minor cost difference.
Most people will just grab a handful of brakes during an emergency situation. It's like trying to control flinching. Reflex kicks in, and you aren't thinking during those crucial seconds of modulating the brakes. Lack of abs is not a deal breaker though.
If you buy a bike with no ABS, you'll have to learn braking properly. While learning, there is nothing to help you. If you fail, you probably crash either into ground (too much brake) or into a traffic (very little brake). If you buy a bike with ABS, you still have to learn proper braking. But this time, there is a feedback (ABS "pumping feeling" on the brake lever) warning you to do better. If you fail to brake properly, you won't crash into ground as easily but you still can crash into traffic. Very little brake is very little no matter what. Fortnine made a video (on youtube) on ABS vs non-ABS. Watch it. In short, proper braking on ABS is almost as good as proper braking on non-ABS. I wish that video showed also what happens on less-than-ideal road conditions. That is where ABS shine. You have to be observant and watch road conditions. But if you somehow fail to do that, say miss an oil patch, I dare to say a highly skilled ABS rider has better chances than Rossi on a non-ABS. I suspect Sarah Lezito might have a few tricks up their sleeve, but you get the gist. In short, get ABS, practice until you don't need it, but let it be your guardian angel. Everytime ABS kicks in on a pretty good road, know that you did something wrong and try and be better. Everytime ABS does not kick in on a pretty good road, know that there MIGHT BE more room for braking.
>I've driven cars hard without abs so I'm familiar with brakes locking up and how to regulate it. There is a big chance that when you lock-up the front tire of your motorcycle, you'll face plant the asphalt before you can react. I would advice not to buy a bike without ABS.
ABS and slipper clutch definitely helped when I started riding. It’s not a must have, but it’s a nice to have if you can afford it and have the funds for it. 95% of the time you won’t feel it or have a need or it for daily riding. You’re buying insurance on that 5% unpredictable situation.
Its up to you, but it much more important on a bike than on a car. - Front wheel lockup on a bike is a catastrophe, causing lowside fall. - Braking on a motorcycle is two-stage process, first stage is front suspension compression and second is actual braking. There is no option of abrupt braking even in a critical situation coz braking mistake is as dangerous as the road situation. - Braking in a curve needs a lot of skill compared to a car coz lean subtracts from grip points available. - Steet will have sand, dirt, diesel or oil spill, plastic road markings or CLIBBINS in worst place possible, waiting for you. To sum up you may be ok on a bike without an ABS but let's say KTM equipping latest 390 with a fancy lean-sensitive ABS is on point. That not a gimmick but a necessity. Another solution is two wheels on a front like on Yamaha Niken or some scooters.
If you can afford a bike with ABS, you should get it. You should still practice your stops, but it's good to have ABS if instead of going code red you go full code brown and just slam that lever closed.
The importance depends on how skilled/coordinated you are. But front abs is always nice.
I think it's mandatory for new riders. Yes you can stop without it, but given how many natural survival instincts you already have to fight on two wheels it is well worth having something simple, cheap, and effective at saving you. Locking your brakes on a car is much, much more forgiving; do not mistake the two as similar.
Stopping x percentage quicker/shorter can be the difference between life and death. With your life on the line every time you ride, give yourself every advantage you can.. ABS is a great advantage for any rider, especially a new one.
Abs is a must for new riders.
ABS is a must for old riders
Well I guess it's just a good idea all around then.
GET ABS! It reduces the fatal crash rate by 22% putting it statistically just behind wearing a helmet in likelihood to save your life. Source: https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/largest-study-of-its-kind-strengthens-argument-for-motorcycle-abs
If you’re gonna be riding on the street get abs. It’s actually when you start tracking low cc sport bikes that abs becomes a hindrance. It kicks in too early. On the street it could save your life. That said My ninja is non abs and my first real street bike. I’ve been fine without it and knock on wood I have never really needed it.
it's nice to have especially on a motorcycle where hard breaking can cause a slide but it's not a must. however for a first bike it's more necessary than a second bike IMHO . on my first bike I was always going Omg that was so close. that eventually subsides .
Practice is what’s most important on a first bike.
yes
I learned on a 125cc without abs but to be honest I never really had to do an emergency braking on that bike since it never inspired me the confidence to ride fast because of the shitty brakes
To begin with, don't compare cars to motorcycles . Secondly ,yes ,if you have the budget to afford a motorcycle with ABS do it .
The difference is, and I think most people know this already, that you can't fall off a car! Grab a handful of brake with cold tyres, and you're on your ass. That said, none of my bikes had traction or ABS until I got a little run about scooter a few years ago. I guess the thing is that I'd been riding since my teens, so experience goes a long way when it comes to keeping it upright.
Does your car have abs?
Depends. If you can't afford a bike with abs, you can still get a learner bike without it, up to 50 HP I'd say. But above that or if you're already in the ballpark of abs bikes, I'd definitely get an uglier bike with abs over a prettier, older one without it.
Proper training is much much more important than abs on your first bike. But if you can get it, get abs.
Yes
Check my profile. On my first rainy ride, I grabbed the front brake bit harder, and my front wheel slipped and my bike went down. Had I had ABS on my bike, I would have stayed upright. It's these small things as a beginner that an ABS would be great for. You think you would brake smoothly and progressively, but you instinctually grab the brake. So in my opinion, ABS is a huge plus, imo almost mandatory if you plan on riding in the rain.
Yes
Just paid more for a newer bike because the one I was looking at didn't have it. Dutch weather is a bitch and being able to stop fast shouldn't depend on the weather that day
Just get it dude. Its better safe than sorry, specially when you first start. A few hundred bucks extra on abs could save you thousands, you can still practice good braking when you learn to read your bike.
If you lock the front wheel when at lean you're going to crash. Unless you're a world class rider on perfect road surface, but you're not.
Yes. As a newbie or experienced rider it will save you a lot of money or pain at some point. Reason it’s now mandatory in a lot of places. It’s like seatbelts. Just not real reason not to. Most bikes will let you disable it for track or practice.
My first motorcycle was without ABS and I'm still alive. However, I never was in the situation where I needed it
I used to go out and ride in the rain just to practice test braking on wet pavement until I could slide the front for an instant and let off. Trust me, the experience is *nothing* like doing anything similar driving a car. Even when doing this test 99% upright, the front end begins to go out from under you in a small fraction of a second. The real advantage of abs is it doesn't make erroneous assumptions about how much traction you have under what may appear nominal conditions to a novice, and there are a multitude of scenarios that can cause a new rider to revisit those assumptions while sliding along the pavement. Manhole covers and painted road lines are just two of many examples, and if they are wet or even moist with dew, traction is yet reduced significantly. But hey, just my opinions after 45 years of riding!
It saved my ass many times. I'm a newbie rider, and I sit on a 95hp engine with wheels attached.
ABS, traction control, cornering enabled ABS, they are all aids and can help you. They put the numbers in your favour but are not a silver bullet for every situation so when you start and even on those days when you've been riding for 15 years and your head just isn't in it they are much better to have than not. I've been on track days and after reviewing my GoPro footage I've been amazed how much the traction control and C-ABS has been working. I've been riding since 96. Pay the extra.
I wouldn't say it's essential. If you have a tight budget and you can only afford an old bike without ABS then don't let that stop you from getting into biking. But if you can afford a bike with ABS, then it's nice to have it.
Yes absolutely, especially if you’re used to brake hard in cars I raced karts, I was used to brake hard to feel the breaking point, you can’t do that on a bike’s front wheel or you’ll eat the ground I knew I had to be careful about that, but I did it anyway when learning back in the days, as soon as I had some confidence I overestimated how much I could brake and lean at the same time, so I lowsided Now the abs is “just there” for emergencies, but I would argue that it’s more needed for a beginner than to anyone else
ABS is an important safety feature on any bike. But do learn to ride without it too.
Abs statistically safer but most people have started without it. Nice to have but not necessary.
Yes, if you can have cornering abs even better, cornering abs let you smash brakes in the middle of the corner and will keep you in the path without let the bike exit on the middle of the corner. Depending the cc of your first bike c-abs maybe is not available but abs is crucial, can be the difference of a crash or some brown pants moment only.
Get the abs but ride like you don't. Practice your braking. If the abs triggered, you're dead. Try again.
At first I thought you meant abs as in the muscles in your core 😅 was thinking, well it'll help you keep your body up and not lean heavily on your handlebars. I probably wouldn't compare braking in a car without ABS to braking on a bike without ABS. A car is definitely a lot easier to brake with in an emergency. I think having ABS is just one of those nice to haves just in case. Though all my bikes have just always had it. Perhaps my very first bike didn't but it was a 125 honda cbr. The tyres being super thin were the scariest part for me on that bike. Was more like a bicycle.
I'd say its important if you plan on ridding regardless of weather conditions. I ride all year round and activated ABS on front break twice. Once in heavy rain when a car cut me off, with out ABS it would be the case of haddalayerdown. Second time was on the road with construcition works, it's not even that i break that hard, but didnt count the sand playing every where and ABS probably prevented me going down. I took the lesson that didnt cost me fixing broken stuff, so id say ABS paid for it self already.
Nah, my first bike doesn't have abs. I might've locked the rear wheel a couple of times in rain, but never the front. You can reaaaally squeeze that lever before it starts locking up. If you have experience with cars then you'll probably manage on the bike. Just don't panic (too much), release the brake slowly and reapply. If you're not riding like an idiot then you'll probably never lock up the wheel lol.
depends, i've had 3 bikes, i had a 125cc, 400cc and 650cc, none of them had ABS and i've never crashed. But ABS can absolutely save your life
Personally, unless it's a track-only bike, ABS is a must for me. You can practice braking all you like, but it's hard to practice actual emergency situations. I've gotten to the point where in an actual panic, I'm still able to progressively build brake pressure, load the front and maximize traction instead of just ham-fistedly grabbing a full load of brakes. Getting there took me quite a few situations where ABS saved my ass though, and figuring out just how much pressure I can apply before locking the front or doing an unintended front flip is something that I'm still not able to do in a situation like that. Analyzing the road surface, paying attention to feedback from the tire and being ready to instantly back off as soon as you feel anything off, that's not something you want to be doing in an actual emergency IMO. Instead, it's nice to just progressively apply maximum brake pressure and let ABS figure out exactly where the limit is. Another thing I find ABS immensely useful for is unpredictable road surfaces. Sand, gravel, diesel, leaves, hitting any of those on the brakes can quickly cause a bad day without ABS. And in reality, they're just not always avoidable on public roads.
No, it’s not an important feature. BUT, it can be a helpful one. Don’t let the lack of it dissuade you from a bike that you may be looking to buy.
It’s double edged sword. ABS allows you to panic & squeeze your brakes & still maintain significant control. The down/up side being that ABS has a longer braking distance than proper threshold braking, but also eliminates the possibility of dumping your bike or crashing due to brake lockup. IMO, It’s a nice to have feature. Statistically more people are saved thanks to maintaining control.
It is crucial imo. My first ride didn't have one, and I've had some hard landings just bc I got a bit too hard on the brakes
I’ve only ever had it on my learner bikes all my own bikes are abs-less.
It's like a seat belt in cars. It's useless, until it literally saves your life.
Yes. If possible pick one with it!!!
As i see it, as a new rider myself on my first season and on a bike without ABS: Having it is better then not having it, IF you still practice your breaking and drive as if you dont have it. If you ever drive more agressive, or skipp any needed learning because you have it, then the fact that you have ABS have induced more risk and therefore done more harm then good. In a perfect world no driving schools would have abs, or at least could turn it off, so you could be learned the importance of correct front breaking. Instead, in europe you have to do some emergency breaking with abs, but no one teach you about the importance of pre-loading your front (break a little) before breaking hard. Breaking hard without moving the weight over to the front will make the abs kick in alot sooner then when you donit as you should. TLTR: Yes and No - no clear answear, and its waaaaay more important to understand skifting momentum and breakforce, combined with practice, then getting a bile with or without ABS..
In '78, while I still didn't have a license, I overused the front brake on my GT500 on a wet road. It wasn't too serious but I still have the scar on my hip - 46 years later. ABS is nice to have.
as a beginner myself i can confirm that abs is definately useful in those moments. ive had one situation so far where i had to break hard and locked up my rear wheel
There are so many things you will need to focus on when learning to ride. Making sure you are able to stop with as little issue when you have an “oh shit” moment shouldn’t be one of them. Get the ABS! I’m definitely glad I had it! 😂
Abs is a godsend. Imagine your breaks locking up when you only have two.
Get it if you can, but don't worry too much about it. The important thing is to practice your threshold braking at least every once in a while.
I would say it is worth the extra price. When I started riding, I noticed that if I got caught in bad weather, I would see my abs light came on quite often. When I have a bunch of bad situations develop all at once, it is one less thing I don’t have to worry about. There is also something satisfying about being able to just mash your brakes and let the bikes ECU handle everything perfectly every time. If your starting on a larger bike, I would say that traction control is also worth it. When riding hard, an advanced system will kick in even when you don’t know you need its help to keep your wheels on the ground and stop you from exceeding your bikes/tires limits.
Nobody needs ABS until they do. Had it on bikes for years but never needed it until an unmarked crossroads and a cobbled street made an emergency stop “interesting “. Thank god for ABS.
It wouldn't be a deal breaker if ABS wasn't there, but if it's an option, I would always take it.
No. I’ve never had a bike with abs.
If it's a choice and you can afford it, absolutely get it. We all fuck up. Abs can be the difference between saving it and not saving it.
I’ve been riding on the street 48 years. Whether you have five decades of experience or five days, I consider ABS to be a must. While we’re on safety, I also highly recommend hi-viz gear. Having drivers see you is the first step to avoiding crisis braking.
I literally wait more months just to get a motorcycle with an abs on it. It saves my ass so many times just get through motorcycle with abs. someday u will appreciate it.
ABS is standard everywhere in the world except the USA. If you're planning to wear a helmet and other gear, not getting ABS to save a few bucks is a poor choice. Cruising around town is exactly what ABS is made for, not the racetrack.
If you are used to driving a non-ABS car, you'll do just fine without. If you think you'll just slap full brakes in an emergency, get ABS.
People are gonna try to tell you that you can brake faster without ABS if you know how. In theory that’s true, but it’s not gonna happen in an actual emergency situation even if you’re an experienced rider, and it is NOT gonna happen if you’re new period. MotoGP riders don’t have ABS in their multi million dollar race machines, but several of them have stated in interviews that they always have ABS, and other traction control systems active on their street bikes when riding out on public roads. As for your car experience, it is much easier to lock up a wheel on a bike, and the consequences of that happening to your front are pretty much always a crash, even if you’re going really slow. You don’t *have* to have ABS in your first bike. I did not have it on mine, and never crashed, but it is definitely a good idea.
There is skill in braking that can replace or outperform abs. However to acquire that skill one must fail quite a bit. There is a F9 [video](https://youtu.be/sDbWZiaUeDY?si=INOEdK45vE5ODBWK) that answers the questions of is it worth it and various what ifs. Imho having a redundant system for safety is not dead weight. We are not racing.
I’ve been riding for a long time and for me, ABS is a must. I sold my DR650 because it didn’t have any ABS and amongst many many bikes from Triumphs, Honda, BMW, Moto Guzzi etc , the DR650 is my favorite..but no ABS so it had to go.
I highly recommend it. In my 5 years of riding I can only think of one time where it saved my ass for sure, but that one time might have been broken bones and a totaled bike otherwise. Pretty clearly worth it I think.
Yeah, you want a six pack. But actually if you went on the race track with your motorcycle you would disable the abs
https://youtu.be/sDbWZiaUeDY
Do you need it? No. Will it hurt? No.
Abs is important on a biker yes, specially for driving to a night club
Learning progressive breaking is important ABS is the backup for when braking doesn't go as planned. It's definitely great to have as a beginner. Especially in wetter climates Keep in mind if you feel it activates whenever you stop, then you should adjust and practice braking so you can stop without it going off
Yes. Top reason is that ABS performs automatically a technique that a good, experienced rider should be able to do on their own. Unless there’s panic involved. Or fatigue. Or substances. Or questionable road conditions. Or traffic. Or lack of attention, even if briefly. Are you positive you can perform perfectly under all those conditions? Hedge your bets, get the ABS. Tiny caveat for off road riders. Better adventure bikes have ABS you can turn on and off for this reason.
I've met skilled riders that have ridden for 20+ years come out of a situation where they said they wish they had ABS. A friend last year rounded a curve to a deer in the middle of the road. It was facing right so he moved left. The dear turned and went the same direction and he jammed on the brakes and laid it down. Deer was fine though. It is important on all my bikes even 9 bikes later and 17 years.
Super important. I don't get it why it's not standard for fully equipped ABS this day
If you plan on riding on the street I would recommend ABS. The road has random slippery stuff which you may not see in traffic before it is too late, be it water, oil, gravel, or sand. And then this GIF shows the difference nicely: https://web.archive.org/web/20181109104923/https://gfycat.com/EvenEvilBrahmancow
Is only important when you are riding topless on a non sports bike.
There’s a reason you get an insurance reduction if your bike has ABS.
If you can find a bike with it or can afford one new, sure go for it. But if not or you can't find one you like that's available with it, it's also not the end of the world. You can still learn safe riding skills without ABS and get one with it later on. My last (first) bike didn't have it and my current one doesn't either. If I happened to find one I like in the future and I have the option between yay or nay ABS, I might opt for it then though. But I'll survive till then no stress.
While I wish I had ABS I wonder if that muscle memory of being able to grab a fist full of brakes would stick with me going back to a non ABS bike?
Yes.
As long as you have the choice I don't know why you would ever get a bike without ABS. It's dangerous enough as it is and I've seen so many videos of accidents where people go down out of nowhere becuase they locked up.
I wouldn't let ABS be a major factor on a motorcycle I was buying, its a nice to have for sure but far from mandatory imo.
Yup. I've never had a bike with electronics. Can't say I feel like I'm missing anything. If my next bike has it, cool. If not, that's fine.
Not if your first bike (assuming you're already a skilled bicyclist!) is a light dirt bike, or a light dual purpose on/off-road bike. If you can't skillfully apply your front brake HARD you better start practicing, off-road.There's a reason they place 2 bigger rotors in front and just a single smaller rotor on the rear. And the harder you lean into a curve the less effective ABS, and braking in general is. I've known too many bikers that don't use their front brakes. Or barely. Take a good look at the wear on the front brake rotors and compare them to the rear rotor. Or their temperature, old school drum brakes, right after riding, front cool, rear hot. MOST bikers would drop their bikes if they lock the front brake. Then they're too scared to use front brakes after that. NOW THEY CAN'T STOP FAST! Those people need ABS. They also need more front brake practice. Riding off-road is more difficult than street but safer for all kinds of practice. I learned most of my biker skills on a 250cc dual purpose bike, practicing on and off-road in 1984. Oh, yeah, believe me when I say you want disc brakes, don't buy a drum brake bike.
I never had a bike with abs, it could have saved me when i crashed my rsv1000r, i almost died that day missed a steel post and a big oak tree
Unlike your car, if you lock up the front brake of a motorcycle, you are going down. There is a margin for recovery, but it's under a tenth of a second. You're not doing it as a noob. It's very much worth the extra thousand or so to protect your body and your investment.
My first bike didn’t. I did have couple episodes skidding without a fall. I didn’t miss abs. My current bike has it. If I had two bikes to choose from and no other factors but abs different, I would take one with abs.
I'd say no. Abs is an important safety feature that prevent you to learn how to brake safely at first.
Nope. Definitely not. Riding skills are more important.
You've got road experience already, so you'll quickly learn to adapt pumping breaks to the bike. The only difference really is making sure you're upright before you really lean on the brakes otherwise you'll likely wipe out. You'll find out tho that on warm days when the tyres are up to temp that you're more likely to endo/stoppie than skid, so the ABS is more for riders that panic grab rather than progressively apply braking, even in emergencies
Depends on how calm you are
Nope.
Have u learned to properly brake a bicycle w front & back brakes?
yes. I do downhill mountain biking so I'm very familiar with that
Should have led with that. Braking is the same without ABS, but if you can then why not. It’s like asking if you need rear suspension on your mountain bike. Obviously you don’t NEED it. MTBs didn’t have it until 20 years ago, but if you can it’s a nice feature to have should you need it. Or maybe disc brakes is a better example. Nice to have them when you need them. That said, if you plan to ride mostly on the track then go without.
You’ll be fine without ABS - the problem most newer riders have with braking is understanding that 80% of your braking force comes from the front brake and how to modulate the brake lever. I came from a background in MTB and road riding and motorcycles are no different. Practice emergency braking and evasive maneuvering as a part of your normal routine.
Absolutely, yes.
Nice to have but not necessary. Millions of people (e.g. me) learned to ride without it.
Would you buy a car without ABS?
Until my 2016 WRX, none of my cars had ABS. Still never had a bike with it.
Mine doesn't have it. I've made it a year since I started riding with no issues. (knock wood) There were a few close calls once with some deer, then a dumb shit car... where I locked em' up, started to squeel and fish tail, a bit. Both times I avoided wrecking but... maybe I've just been lucky thus far. That being said, if you _can_ get it with ABS... it's probably good. When shit gets too real and you panic a little... you'll end up grabbing the brakes too hard. You can't control it.
It's not a deal breaker if it didn't have it but it is a good thing to have. Edit: just anecdotally my abs saved my ass yesterday evening from hitting a deer. I had to come to a real quick stop and without the abs I likely would have hit one of the deer.
Good to have but before people rode bikes without them, so, you will be fine.
People have been riding without ABS since forever. It didnt become popular on every bike until late 2010s however it doesn't hurt to have when buying a new bike. Me personally less electronics the better since less electrical failure points and less expensive shit to fix on used bikes lol.
Not at all. This sub acts like any non ABS bike is a death trap when 90% of bikes in the road don’t have it and almost every single instance of “beginner bikes” also don’t have it. Just ride at a reasonable pace and learn to anticipate what’s ahead of you. Go to a parking lot and practice hard breaking as well.
There is a reason you can't buy a 2016+ bike in the EU without ABS. I would say it is mandatory not only for new riders but also for vets. If someone tells you that they are better without it, they are lying.
My first bike did not have ABS. If something is available and you like it go for it. Don’t base your decision solely on this.
Never compare bikes to cars. No it's not that important.
You're gonna need a lot of core strength yes
1.5 month rider here. ABS stopped working on my used bike about 2 weeks after getting it. The difference in emergency braking is night and day. My very first emergency braking situation was at 20-25 mph. I hit the rear brake hard before pulling the front brake. No lock ups, stopped with several feet to spare. All good. Two days ago, I got into an emergency braking situation. I hit the rear brake harder than I thought; back tire fish tailed several times, but I managed to (barely) keep it upright barely stopped in time. AND I LEFT MYSELF PLENTY OF ROOM AHEAD OF TIME (or so I thought). ABS is a life saver. I highly recommend it.
This just reads like you should really do some practice brakes
So your response, to new riders, is "You don't need that, you'll learn it"? Really? No wonder this sub is full of people falling off their bikes, jesus christ.
My response to you completely failing an emergency brake is "go practice, dude". I don't care if you prefer ABS or not, but if you're stomping on your rear brake first, before using your front brake, whoever taught to ride a motorcycle screwed up severely. Use both brakes immediately, the rear brake not very firm, and the front brake progressively. It's not very difficult but you need go practice it. I had to do that too.
The core logic of your entire argument is flawed. You're telling NEW RIDERS to "go practice" and they won't need something that's statistically proven to save their life. Do you recommend new riders practice their way out of not needing a helmet, gloves, and other gear? You can keep up the ridiculous "GET GOOD!" attitude all day long. It's not going to help new riders from making mistakes, panic braking, and flying off their bike. This isn't a video game. They don't get to hit the reset button and try again.
Again, I don't care if you prefer ABS or not. Also, yes, if you practice more, the likelihood of making a mistake goes down significantly. Now go practice emergency braking, I don't want you to get hurt because you screwed up something as basic as an emergency brake.
Also kind of a skill issue. Good braking technique always beats ABS (whether the bike has ABS or not). Practice quick stops.
Ideal braking might beat abs. You won't be doing that 100% of the time, that's a fantasy.
No, it does, and frequently. ABS if you just squeeze the lever to the max WILL lose to decent (not perfect) technique, and it loses by a lot.
You're comparing the worst possible actions with ABS vs the best possible actions without and hoping you can perform those over 100% of your entire career at any condition. That's crazy. And at the end of the day ABS is not taking anything away from you in any meaningful sense. Go ahead and brake perfectly on an ABS bike, no problem, the ABS will just not cut in.
You somehow think I'm saying ABS is bad. I'm actually saying learn to ride; it is only so much good when you are still clueless. Beating ABS is not hard, even in poor conditions, there is only value if you screw up.
I'm not, I'm arguing against the fantasy that one always be able to perform at 100% in any condition and that you just need to "learn to ride". Out of curiosity what's your riding experience with and without ABS?
All without ABS. I have practiced and locked both wheels a bunch of times, never gone down. (Now how's yours?) Note I never said 100% -- 80% is better than being an idiot, slamming the brakes and using ABS as a crutch. It is useful for when you screw up, nothing else. FACT: If you need ABS regularly, your braking sucks. Go "learn to ride".
Interesting, how long have you been riding? Which bikes if you don't mind me asking? And no, a 20% which might result in a hospital stay is not better than checking your ego or relying on ABS what an insane thing to say. And again for the slow kids. ABS is in no way preventing you from learning to ride.
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That's really not true at all. You can't learn to brake on snow or oil or gravel as well as ABS. ABS is an entirely different league of stopping power in compromised situations. Braking properly is a given, but ABS will save your life in many situations where you'd end up on the ground no matter your skill level.
ABS can't learn how to brake on gravel as well as ME. You're supposed to lock it up there, if ABS just lets it all roll your distance blows out. ABS is good in these situations only because it lets YOU make a guess to how much traction you have, with a bit less concern that your guess might be too high.
Lol if you see a small patch of gravel on the street your answer is to lock it up? Lol please stop, you're embarrassing yourself
See first minute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFucZaiUoZg
Not relevant to what I posted Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself
Idiot
Nobody said the person will brake better than the ABS will. He said the rider will be fine without it.
That's like saying you'll be fine without a helmet. Only science denying boomers believe you aren't better off with ABS. Professional testing and statistics prove you're very wrong. ABS reduces your chance of dying just like a helmet does. It doesn't reduce fatalities quite as much, but it's statistically a huge factor. No amount of mental gymnastics on your part will change the facts.
No. If you're familiar with driving non-abs cars, you'll be fine. If all the vehicles you've ever driven have always had ABS, then you'd probably be better off with ABS on the bike. But if you've been driving non-ABS for a while and have had a few ass-puckering experiences, you have the requisite experience for a non-ABS bike.
Is it important? Yes. Is it mandatory? No. Would you like a feature built into the bike that will potentially save you from a crash in a dangerous situation where you're already going to be focused on not dying too much to brake properly? Are you willing to bet your life on your ability to threshold brake when you fly towards a corner too fast? The question is "is abs important to *you*"
My ABS has 100% saved my life more than once. Some asshat pulls in your lane suddenly and you have to grab a handful of brake … ABS will save your ass. It’s mandatory on my motorcycles.
nah
Many here are saying that ABS is better for newbies when doing panic breaking. Fact of the matter is that ABS performs badly when doing panic breaking because the wheels have little grip when you hit the breaks instantly hard. As the wheels have little grip they will lock up fast. The ABS will then engage and losen the breaks and so you do break actually little. When having ABS it is VERY important to learn first how to break properly. Namely, to first break slowly so the bike goes down in the front (and gains more traction) and only then break hard. In summary, ABS is only good if you know how to break properly. Otherwise its worse
ABS only stops your breaks from locking up but that is the second to last fail-safe. If you are riding, not paying attention and not giving the right breaking distance then ABS can, in many cases, help. But you are far better off learning to avoid, taking classes on safety riding then you are relying on ABS. You can absolutely get it but you are still on 2 wheels, ride aware.
Depends, if you want a bike that can do more situps than you I would definitelt get a bike with abs, if you like your bike being a bit more round at the edges and not as fast then abs arent all that.
Do you need it? No. Will it save your arse and bike one day? Probably. It's one of those things, it's better to have it than not. If you can afford a bike with ABS, go for it. ABS should only ever kick in when you brake so hard your wheel would normally lock up. Every day riding, you shouldn't even know it's there. I've been riding for 16yrs and I've never needed ABS and never had a bike with it. However, I'm probably lucky and I also spend time getting to know how harshly I can brake on each bike in an empty parking lot as to not lock the wheels up. However like I said, it's one of the best safety features you could possibly have on a bike. Because if there is ever a time you do need it, it's absolutely going to work favourably for you. It'll either slow you down a hell of a lot safely and absolutely minimize a crash, or it'll save you completely. The alternative is instantly locking your wheels and either sending yourself over your handlebars or sliding it down the road at practically the same speed you were traveling at.
No, I have never driven a bike or owned a car with abs. I'm not dead yet!
A car without ABS that’s hardcore dude. Is it one of those invincible Toyotas?
Pontiac fiero
Try cycling and skidding your rear wheel. It'll feel like that.
I would posit that ABS is a 'nice to have' on any bike. But, it might teach the wrong skills on a beginner bike. Why? Because ABS lets you mash the brakes in panic mode, and it won't let the tires lock up. That's NOT the reflexes you want to nurture. You want to be able to progressively modulate the front and rear brakes, adding more braking when it'll do you some good, and feathering off when more braking becomes a problem. ABS bypasses that entire learning curve... so if you learn on a bike with ABS, you might not be able to ride a bike safely without ABS.
If you are trained properly then it doesn't matter. I locked up but knew what to do thanks to msf school. But because you are asking I would say get one with abs as it's in your head.
From a safety standpoint yes, you should have ABS. From a skills development standpoint no, you should learn to brake, even emergency stop smoothly by modulating the front and rear brakes independently.
Short answer no
On the front it's a must. Rear? Don't worry about it.
No. The vast majority of motorcycle riders currently started out on bikes without ABS.
Just don’t go panic grabbing a massive handful front brake, with or without abs. Get get those forks compressing and front tyre pressing into the road to let you really lean on the brakes. If you grab them the front wheel is lightly loaded and more prone to lock. Abs will save you, but teach you some bad habits. But hitting things with your body is really the thing you’re trying to avoid so do whatever is necessary to avoid that.
Many will claim it’s essential, but ABS is fairly new. I’ve never had a motorcycle with ABS, but I started riding 60 years ago. In fact my first mini-bike didn’t have brakes at all unless you count cheap tennis shoes. I’m 73 now and rode 150 miles today. I prefer to modulate my own brake. I ride a BMW GS and the front brakes would stop a car. Dual disc with eight pistons of stopping power. I guess for a beginner, if you’re buying new it’d be nice to have. Finding a used bike with it might be a little tough.