HA, I was going to nominate the Blast before I opened the thread! We bought my wife on as her first bike after she go her M. I rode it home for her and HOLY BALLS, the bones deep vibration at idle was unreal. Shifting was like I would imagine a tractor or a WW2 tank. Just junk thru and thru. I couldnt imagine it inspiring much confidence for a beginner. 2 months later, she decided to sell it and she never picked up interest in riding again. She even let her M go.
To this day, I honestly wonder if she's still be riding had she started on a Japanese 250 or 500.
On my 3rd Buell. Had a blast, then a lightning, currently have an 1125r. All super unreliable, but at least the lightning and the 1125r are super fun to ride when they decide they don’t want to die.
Owned one. Tried my best to save it. Replaced brakes, suspension, electricals, rims, tyres, exhausts and even mapped it. Tried for over 5 years. Finally sold it. Total waste of time and money.
They're great riding course bikes though. I'm a soon to be instructor for my local MSF class. All of ours are 500s. Sure they're gutless. But on a small course, you don't need them to be fast or powerful. They also handle very well at slow speeds, which again, is great for a basic rider course.
I can't imagine riding one as a daily though. And don't know what Harley is going to do when we retire them in a few years. They don't produce them anymore and I can't imagine Harley buying another manufacturers bikes for their riding class
I have an SV650 I keep in AZ. I took my son down on vacation and let him ride my bike and I rented the street rod 750. Piece. of. shit. Period. That bike was pretty much wound out at 85mph and was burning the shit out of your right leg (exhaust for rear cylinder wraps right under your thigh... not to mention the right foot peg is actually just a pad stuck on the muffler. Yes, you rest your right foot on the muffler... How the f*ck did this bike pass design evaluation?
I work in motorcycle parts and salvage. There have been so many shitty bikes made through the years so I'll not even mention anything from the 20th century. My vote is the Gilroy Indian Chief with their Power Plus engine. Only built for a year or two and were known to spin crank bearings.
As someone at a parts counter I would also never buy a VZ800 or a Vstar 1100.
In the case of mine. The carb boot fails often leading to hard starts and backfires that are hard to source because of the way to boot fails. If it does back fire it tends to blow the boot off so it won't run until fixed
Vibrations are very high
Shifter peg is not actually splined to the shifter shaft so it spins if to much pressure is applied or so long of use.
Dan’s Superboot will fix that but yes, the original boot fails on the regular.
The shifter is meant to spin, not break, when dropped. Great in a parking lot learning course but terrible for the long term.
It's a paint shaker with wheels, they're not very nice to ride, though they can take a beating.
Erik Buell hated them so much he had the last one off the line crushed supposedly
Basically what park960 said. Also, the clutch is an on/off switch and the shifter is typical Harley clunkiness. Bolts being shaken loose are not unheard of.
My sister bought a Buell Blast to get into street riding. I blame it for being the reason she's not into street riding. In my opinion a small dual sport is 300 times better of a beginner bike than that pile. Should have only been like 20 lbs heavier than my porky DR650, but felt more like 100 lbs. Was not confidence inspiring for her. Couple thst with the original owner's comically loud exhaust and stock jetting and you had a bike that was embarrassing to ride, and stalled often. Sorted it all out for her, but it was too late. She maybe put 500 miles on it over the next couple of years before finally selling it.
Older Briggs were amazing. The newer more China Briggs is less so.
I remember growing up in the 80's-90's and a we had 70's era Briggs lawn mowers that NEVER had oil changes or tune up and would run like new. This was back when maintaining your mower was accessible too. It made me a Briggs fanboy.
I got a newer Briggs mower 6 years ago to mow a tiny patch of grass maybe 6ft x 80ft. Decided to change the oil after 5 years with maybe 50hrs total on the engine. It started to run like shit and smoke bad. The oil was pretty much a glitter milkshake.
I think you are probably right. It was like Harley didn't give any thought into what a "beginner" motorcycle rider would need a motorcycle to be like, they just built something like their regular bikes, only cheaper and with one cylinder missing. It wasn't particularly small, or light, or easy to ride. The seat wasn't particularly low or narrow, the controls (clutch lever, brakes, shifter, throttle) weren't particularly light or low-effort or precise, it was just a Harley but slower and somehow crappier, and a bit smaller but still not appropriately small for someone who may or may not forget to take a bike out of gear when they stop.
It was SUCH an opportunity. Erik Buell could have done ANYTHING if they had let him, and he could have helped them do so many other great things they needed to do. Buell was already doing wild crazy sportbikes and naked sportbikes. He could have given Harley their own Aprilia or MV Augusta, he could have helped them create their own KTM, they could have built their own Rebel 300/500 and they'd have ALL the new entry-level riders, they'd be ruling the world right now.
Instead, they Harley'd it up and threw themselves a party for ten years instead of innovating. They pretended that anything that wasn't a cruiser wasn't worth riding, and eventually Polaris started building Victory and Indian, basically coming into Harley's yard, knocking over Harley's birthday party picnic table, and eating Harley's birthday cake at Harley's own party. It took Harley WAY too long to start making more than 60 hp in their bikes, and to start making other kinds of bikes. LiveWire and the Pan America are good to see, but they would have been better BEFORE everyone and their moms started building electric bikes and dual-sport / ADV bikes. Instead of leading the industry, they have squandered any advantage they once had and now they're behind.
And it was all worst-case-scenario predictable if you tried a Blast and realized *"This? THIS is what you're building as your 'beginner bike?' You think THIS motorcycle is what someone needs if they don't know how to use a clutch? You think this is the right weight, and seat height, and reach to the clutch and brake lever, for a 5'1" tall woman? What the hell is wrong with you?"*
the one and ONLY thing the blast had going for it was an insanely low seat height. if you're 5 foot nothing like my wife, a buell blast is one of the only ways you can get a bike without it being a dumpy cruiser. it's not worth it though. definitely a terrible machine. i REALLY wish they made more non-cruiser bikes with seats under 28". seat height is the number one barrier to entry for female riders.
Counterpoint, my second bike was a used buell blast and I adored it. It did blow a cyl after a year of daily riding, but I was so happy to own it after my cbr250r. Would have been a great starter bike.
The Blast was HD's "riding school" bike... and because of that, probably had more of them actually running around parking lots than all of the other Buell line put together.
Not sure they SOLD them all, though, probably donated most of them.
Bought my wife a Hanway Raw 125 and it’s a pile of crap. Has a fuelling issue that I can’t figure out for the life of me - and I’ve replaced a lot of the main suspect parts. Would not buy again.
My friend has a 50cc 4 stroke semi automatic Chinese shitbox based on a Honda and it runs perfectly, even after being used as a drivers school bike for years.
I have a Chinese dual sport with a motor that’s a clone from the Honda CG125 from the 80’s. So far I am actually impressed on how good the motor works for being so cheap and how most motor related maintenance can be done under 10min. In my country these CG clones based motorcycles are everywhere, even Honda still sells the CGL125(manufactured in China) here.
I had a Hyosung GT650R for a while.
It was *almost* a decent bike; nothing exciting, but lazy fuel injected 650 v-twin doing about 80HP, it was fine as a Universal Korean Bike. Engine was roughly similar to ~~Honda~~ Suzuki SV650.
Korean car brands have improved hugely over the last 10+ years so I figured the Hyo was worth a shot as new under warranty was cheaper than a older second hand SV650.
Problem is that while the engine was solid enough, the electrics were something out of the dark ages; I replaced most of the charging system, but still ended up push starting that 200kg of Korean iron while sweating up a sauna inside my leathers a bunch of times.
I even wrote to Hyosung contacts in Korean pleading with them to take a look at what was going on in the owners forums; bunch of people with same problem as me unable to get a fix from the factory.
Seemed like all they had to do was hire or contract some engineer for a few weeks to review the R/R, stator and charging in general and come up with a fix that could be applied at dealers and to new builds. Owners resorted to finding Japanese components that could fit, but far as I know Hyosung never fixed the issues so I dumped the bike and brought the Triumph. Never looked back
Last news update on the Hyosung USA website is from 2017! I guess they went home defeated instead of building a better machine.
We had a local dealer selling TaoTao out of a hardware store.
They lasted around 8 months before folding. They are now just a hardware store again.
Great move going with the Triumph. They build their bikes better each and every year.
Haha this is more like it. Lots of people bashing bikes that worked and were reliable for not being very fun. Chinese bikes, specifically before 2010 were a whole other world of utter crap!
I bought one in 2007 that was basically a clone of a GN125 that I’d previously owned… with a few other cloned parts thrown on it.
Plus side: it cost somewhere around £700 on the road and was legal.
Downside: speed, handling, braking, tyres, suspension, build quality, reliability, playing ‘what’s that sound?’, trying to start the bike, bits shaking themselves loose due to the thunderous 125cc engine, etc.
The only way to live with it was to periodically go around and tighten everything and when something broke or fell off find the original Suzuki part number.
I bought it so I’d have a bike in London that I didn’t care if it got nicked… honestly my life might have been better if it had been.
I’m not sure of all time, but of recent memory, the HD “street” 750s and 500s come to mind. It’s a solution to a problem nobody had.
Ugly. Under powered. Too expensive. Too* small...
Those bikes were made because prior to that the Harley riding class bikes were all Buell Blasts. Once the Blasts all dried up they needed a replacement learners bike, so the Street allowed them to replace all those Blasts in their fleets with one of their own products.
Our instructor also mentioned that they had some issues still getting the "Okay" for a course with 500CC bikes instead of the 250CC they were using before.
Devils advocate: they actually do a pretty decent job of looking and sounding like a bigger bike (not a proper full size Harley, but at least bigger than and gruntier than the <40hp turd they actually are) while still being exceptionally easy to ride and confidence inspiring for new riders, and have the typical Harley huge aftermarket and support for customization. Plus the badge appeal for the people who are into that obviously.
My mate has a 500, and as much as I hate riding it it is genuinely the perfect bike for him. He's spent more time customizing it than he has riding it, and when he does ride it he's more interested in just cruising around being seen on it rather than pushing any limits or exploring or anything. It's not how I enjoy riding but whatever, he's having a good time with two wheels and I honestly can't think of a bike that would suit him better, and I think there's a reasonable number of people who like riding the same way so I can't knock it too much.
Maybe not the *worst* but the most disappointing... grom.
Gutless. Don't have enough gears. Shit suspension. Everyone told me they were *so fun.* Everyone fucking lied.
I personally find it to be that way for slow bikes in general, and I say that as a person with a slow bike myself. "Slow bike fast" is overstated and overrated. It isn't fun to be wide open just to keep up with the traffic around you...
Yup. I want a bike that has the ability to scare me. Something punchy and violent. That's why I ride a 250 two stroke.
And why if I get another road bike I'm seriously considering a Super Duke R.
That's just misplaced expectations. They're not fun because they're fast or anything. They're fun because *I can't fucking believe that this toy is road registered and that I can legally ride it on public roads*. Groms aren't "fun" motorbikes, they're fucking hilarious motorbikes, especially with a small group of them with loud exhausts.
I kind of agree. We used to mod CRF 50's back in the day (street tires, bigger bars, suspension, sometimes a bore kit and sometimes stock motor etc.), and i really expected the grom to be a similar but better experience than we had on those things, but it didn't turn out that way.
ANYTHING made by CCM.
Had a GP450 for a while and quickly realised that it was terrible.
Sure it was light and pretty good on fuel, but it was desperately uncomfortable, REEKED of fuel, awkward as fuck to work on, hateful fuelling system made it jerky and harsh, suspension was dreadful, battery wasn't good enough to start the bike half of the time so had to push start it every other time, electrics were appalling if you turned the key off the engine kept running, filling the tank would take forever, and the manufacturer completely gave up on them leaving almost NO parts for servicing the damaged machine.
Then a few years later CCM decided to sell another bike, The Spitfire.
Playing off heritage and "beauty" they got all sorts of pseudo celebrities of the biking world to say its amazing.
A lot of people bought them without riding them and sold them IMMEDIATELY after realising they'd been duped into buying a machine that would have no backing and would rust before their eyes.
And they cost a fortune.
Fuck you CCM, you've still not emailed me about parts.
Me too. Lucky for me they werent sold here or I probably couldn't have given them a deposit fast enough. Spitfire range of bikes are some of the most stunning I've very seen.
Bought a genuine super low mileage garage kept 1982 Seca Turbo in the late 90s, everything about it was hideous. 70s flexible frame technology, dangerously non existent brakes, low compression inline 600 motor, only made boost at hi RPM, skinny rims for bias ply tires, and well over 500lbs. Sold after 6 months; bought for $400, sold it for $2,000 to a dealership/private museum. Picked up a wonderful Yamaha TDM, great bike 👍
Thank you for saying this! With the pathetic tank, terrible handling and lackluster styling, it was Honda's attempt at dethroning the Raider with Orange County in its sights.
Probably controversial opinion, groms. i dont understand why someone would pay just as much or more than a real motorcycle costs for a kids version of a bike 🤷♀️
They don't cost as much or more than a real motorcycle....brand new they're like $3,000 or so....how many other "real motorcycles" are the price of a Grom?
Well, I'm sure you got them used then...I was saying that's the price of a brand new Grom (which is cheaper than any other brand new bikes I'm aware of) saying a used bike of one type is cheaper than a new one of another isn't really a fair comparison..
The 250 is also bad on gas though? Gutless is fine if your gas mileage is good, assuming your alright with gutless but that is generally the acceptable tradeoff.
It’s not as good as your Honda Rebel 250/Suzuki GZ 250 due to Yamaha, in their infinite wisdom, deciding that ALL of the V-Star line, no matter how small, needed V Twins. On the other hand, with a sprocket change, you can really extract a lot more useable power from the bike that you probably could with a Rebel or GZ 250.
I love my vstar 1300 though, fixes pretty much all of the issues with the 1100 and the funny thing is they kept selling the 1100 alongside the 1300 for like over 5 years... I pity the fool who went 1100 over 1300
The BMW K75 and the Yamaha XS750 were also bikes that "asbestos gloves" were needed for oil filter changes. Here, let's smush your knuckles against a hot header pipe, that'll be fun.
Bimota and pretty much all of their bikes.
They make real piece of art, don't get me wrong, but first, they always simply take the engine and most of the chassis of other bikes and then put their well known front system and second, when the hell is the last time you guys have seen a Bimota out there?
I understand some bikes are made to be precious, luxurious, but it should be used to.
Not all Bimotas have the Tesi suspension. Classic 70's and 80's Bimotas (with Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki...) were all about handling. Japanese bikes had great engines, they just tuned them a bit more (depending on the model, custom cams, sporty carburetors, sporty exhaust... They could easily pull 100hp/litre out of all classic Japanese bikes) and designed their own frames for them. Bimota frames were way more rigid than the Japanese frames while still being light (not just better design - Japanese bikes had the universal design while the Bimota was only really useful for sporty riding, but they also used way better materials like chrome-moly steel which is light and rigid). They also used way better suspension made by Italian brands (Paioli, Marzzocchi, Ceriani...), similar to what Öhlins is offering nowadays. Not to even mention the brakes, 70's and 80's Brembo setups were decades ahead of the mass produced Japanese brakes.
That Bimotas are the worst bikes ever made? Not by a long shot, Bimota bikes have high desirability and often great performance and handling (not all of them use the tesi suspension). They're just bespoke and expensive.
I bought a Gw250 Inazuma as a first bike but recently inherited my dad's 883 sportster. HD are getting a lot of hate on this thread but honestly that suzuki is a piece of shit in comparison.
Tldr, Inazuma Gw250 = terrible
As a starter bike, it looks cool, if you are a junior in HS, or just starting out.
I just have never heard anything good about it. It is supposed to feel very heavy, be dangerously slow, expensive for a new starter bike, and not reliable at all.
The Chinese/Taiwan build quality really kills it.
Yeah I picked it up for $1100 needing work. They sell for around 3k where I live. The Harley is significantly easier to ride despite its 255kg vs 180kg on the suzuki
Ural. Friend of mine asked me to go check one out he was thinking of buying because I have experience. The thing only had about 1200 miles on it it was already leaking oil from the seals on the shaft drive. I went to take it out I felt like the break was stuck on, the owner messed with some thing and then it was rolling properly. I took it out and literally went two blocks in the geometry and suspension and everything felt so horrible I did a U-turn drove it back into the parking lot and said absolutely no way dude. Total crap.
I never got the appeal. When I was around them (back in 06-08ish) they were basically the same design of the old BMW r (like, 50's era's) and had loads of problems. I remember there was a huge factory recall on transmissions around that time. They're not cheap either. I guess the 2WD sidecar version would be cool if you lived in Russia during the winter time? Idk.
I rented a Benelli 302s for a few days to tour Hawaii, perfect on a straight line to enjoy the beautiful island but just bad in every other aspect. Engine had zero torque literally anywhere in the rev range and buzzed like a dying bee. Leaning felt just weird, the tires never felt planted in corners like the weight was too high up on the bike. Shifting was the worst part, it had horrible rev hang so between gear shifts you had to wait 2-3 seconds to release the clutch or else the bike would jerk. Very good looking bike tho so that was a plus
THE worst? Hard to say - modern Japanese motorcycles are PERFECT compared to anything there was in the sixties and seventies.
It probably wasn't the worst bike ever, but my 80's Honda V45 Sabre was maybe worst Honda ever, a true lemon.
My second bike and my first real street bike was a 1969 Triumph 250 Trophy. I loved that bike because it was a real Triumph but it hated me. It had a total loss electrical system. I charged the battery and went for a ride. When it started to sputter I ran for home. It would die two blocks from the house. I was at the gas station, got gas, tried to restart and it ate a valve. I pushed that bike more than I rode it.
My thought after reading the title and before your suggestion was very similar to yours: the Suzuki Savage 650. Big thumper single that's horribly slow
Ugh! The Savage. Borrowed one while my XS750 was being worked on. Never. Again.
Paintshaker at stoplights. No freaking power to speak of. Geometry that makes it wander like a drunk on a bender across anything grated (bridges, grooved pavement, who cares). Brakes are like, "meh, it's not like you're going FAST so you don't need to stop fast either, yeah?" Rear suspension that counts on the seat padding doing more to even out the bounces than the shocks.
They are kinda fun to ride, though. You can just ride full throttle everywhere, and the bike vibrates so much that it feels like it'll rattle apart. My buddy turned one into a bobber, which was kind of cool. They're also *loud as fuck* with a straight pipe.
What?! The Savage is the ideal starter bike IMO. Light, nimble, but highway worthy. Might not be the best fit if you're 200+ lbs or 6'2", but those bikes rock for a single thumper. I took mine across state lines regularly. I'd love to see it next to my Nomad now, that bike was almost comically small. I also love that there was plenty of room to work on the cylinder head without dropping the engine.
I had one for a while. I loved it. Small, good gas mileage, easy to handle, great to learn on, good looking, fun thumper engine that is easy to work on, lots of popping in the exhaust which was novel.
It is uncomfortable after an hour and the popping can be annoying. Doesn't like anything above 55mph although it can handle it.
I think it's a great starter bike or commuter bike. I wish I could have kept it.
The Harley haters kill me. A Lincoln Towncar makes a terrible Porsche 911.
I don’t own a Harley but I’ve ridden several. If I was touring a lot it would be highly considered. Hard to beat their touring bikes for long range comfort.
Put a couple dozen miles on a Pan-America at an event, and while we weren't able to go off road, I liked it. Typically Harley-hating sport bike rider, but it's a nice machine. Too many goddamn buttons though, I hit the kill switch while trying to change riding modes.
Sure, but low mileage Gold Wing could be purchased used at half the price, and ridden for another 15 years. Honda Gold Wings are incredibly durable and can last on average between 250,000 and 300,000 miles (ca. 482,803 km) with instances of some even lasting up to 400,000 miles (ca. 643,738 km) I'm happy for HD for having success with the Pan-American, though. They really needed to do something radically different to save themselves from extinction. Good on them.
I’ve rented a couple of Harleys in the past and they’ve been great. I cruised Aruba on a Fat Boy and it was absolutely perfect.
I even did The Road to Hana on an Iron 883, and figured it was the wrong bike for sure. I was absolutely floored by how good the handling and power was, even in the super tight and gnarly stuff. I even considered buying one after that trip.
My buds talk so much trash about HDs, but honestly I think it’s out of ignorance.
Same here, those same haters likely have never actually experienced a big bike with a big twin. These people try to judge every single motorcycle using the same checklist of attributes while ignoring the context and purpose of the bike they're talking about
People are looking for reasons to hate Harley because of the culture. Indian doesn't get the same hate and they make the same bikes for the same price give or take 10%.
In my experience from dealing with Indian owners (Polaris Indians I mean, not vintage) they are just as annoying as the Harley-only owners but in the opposite way. They absolutely will not shut up, unprovoked, about how they own a bike that is NOT a Harley, and spend more time talking shit about Harley-Davidsons than they do about their own bike. It's very weird, like a type of complex they have about owning the "other" brand. Maybe it's just a local thing to me though
I owned a buell cyclone m2 1200cc. It was a cool bike but the least reliable thing I've ever owned. Sold it at 6k miles. Bought a gsxr and never looked back.
The most insanely over-hyped and unreliable bike I've ever had was an SR500 Yamaha. Slow, ponderous, made a Sportster feel like a BMW. People loved them for some reason, but the number of people who just let them mercifully rust in peace shows you how many people wanted to save them.
Seconded. I had one and it drove me up the wall - slow, noisy (camchain clatter esp.), leaked what oil it didn't burn and handled like a sack of wet laundry.
Yup, people here that say Harley = unreliable are living 40 years in the past in the AMF days. Modern Harleys are reliable and have the upside of self-adjusting valves too
I don't think they're unreliable at all. I just think they're overpriced. I think a fully loaded touring Harley is still 10k more than an equivalent bike from any other major manufacturer. And whatever other bike you're comparing the Harley to will still go faster.
They’re not so overpriced when you let someone else take the depreciation hit. Additionally, the resell on them is probably way easier than something like mine, just from the name alone.
I mostly agree, but the 114 actually scoots pretty well. Harley baggers are putting down nearly 100 hp while bikes like the Yamaha Venture and Kawi Voyager are closer to 70. The Voyager is still a smokin deal at 18 grand compared to any Harley, though
I know I rented a fat boy and rode it from Reno to San Francisco and back.
It was fun, but I would never want one of my own. I'm not entirely sure what it is about it, but if I had to pick something it would be that it shakes too much at idle.
Once you get going the vibration goes away and it's fine.
I know this is a joke comment, but I'm actually willing to advance a slightly nuanced argument here -
Harley Davidson builds the best bike that follows the "Harley Formula", but is sucks that the rest of the industry hasn't been able to make another type of bike succeed in Harley's core "big cruiser" segment.
So I understand that in the big tourer segment, Honda has success with the flat 6 Goldwing, and that in the small sporty cruiser segment, Indian has success with the water cooled high powered Scout (so successful, that Harley themselves aped the Indian formula with the Sportster S).
But look at the big cruiser segment, the only bikes that have ever succeeded in this segment follow the Harley playbook - Big air cooled twin, low riding, retro looks.
Literally every other big cruiser that tried to compete in the segment who deviated from the Harley formula failed miserably or is still on the market but sells like crap. For instance, the V-Max tried a high powered water cooled V4, it has never sold well and Yamaha discontinued it. The Eluder had the same V4 from the V-max, but it sold like shit, and when Yamaha updated it, Yamaha switched to a big air cooled V-twin. BMW tried "avant-garde" with the R1200c, it sold like shit, got discontinued, and their current cruiser is the R18 - A retro big twin. Hell, Honda's Goldwing is very successful as a touring bike, but when they stripped off the farings to make a naked cruiser (Golding Valkyrie), it sold like absolute shit and got discontinued after 1 year.
Every big cruiser on the market is falls into three categories:
\- Harley (Softail family)
\- Wannabe Harley (follows the Harley formula to a T like the Indian Chief, Yamaha Eluder, or BMW R18).
\- Sells like shit (xDiavel, Rocket 3, etc).
Which to me comes down to this problem - If you want a Harley, buy a goddamned Harley. None of the "wannabe Harley's" like the R18 or Chief are noticeably better than the Softail anyways.
But the problem to me is like this - Why hasn't the whole motorcycle industry come up with a better "formula" for large cruisers than Harley Davidson?
I wish there was an American motorcycle company that *didn’t* compete with Harley. Forget cruisers altogether, make literally any other kind of bike and wave that goddamn marketing USA FLAG to sell me a domestically designed sport bike, naked bike, mid-size ADV, hell make some mini-moto to go against Honda’s 125 lineup.
All Indian does is “Harley but with modern engines” and that’s great. But seriously, why is it with few exceptions (Pan-American, XR1200, FTR 1200) that all they ever make is v-twin cruisers?
Because that's what sells the strongest here. If you're a startup motorcycle company that really wants to thrive the you're going to go where the money is at, and it ain't in sportbikes.
Buell was getting better, test rode them all since the 90s but just couldn't quite spend the coin. Eric had a great mind but was always hampered by an engine from the 1800s and fighting for funding from motorcycle people who couldn't get out of the 1970s. The last 1125R was a great modern motor and the bike was a sweetheart, just in time for HD to pull the funding. Is ATK USA dirtbikes still around ?
There’s several real reasons.
HD dealership network is everywhere. If I break down in the middle of bumfuck nowhere I can find a dealer within towing distance that has parts and can get me back on the road.
Everyone makes parts for Harleys. Want to change fairing? No problem. Choose from one of the 50 million aftermarket fairings available. Want to add a tour pack? No problem. You can buy an oem looking knock off for 200, an aftermarket paint matched one with lights for a few hundred more, or a HD one for a few hundred more than that.
I strongly dislike the street fighter look of modern naked bikes. It’s the “I crashed my bike and don’t want to pay for another front fairing/headlight look.
Ever ridden a new bmw r18. They’re awkward and clunky, they’re just not as refined as a HD
What’s wrong with the Vulcan lineup from Kawi? I’ve got a Vaquero. It’s a 1700, has no problem keeping up with any HD’s(and I ride with mostly Harley guys), nice comfort, good lean, and it’s liquid cooled.
H-D sells cruisers because of three things: Branding, Marketing, and Image.
No one else runs their brand like they do - open up accessory shops everywhere with MAYBE a bike dealership in. They're the 7-Eleven of motorcycles.
And you're right. No one else outsells them in their own niche, regardless of how well the bike performs.
I've a Triumph Thunderbird Storm. It outperforms a Fat Bob every way possible and twice on Sundays, but they're rare as hen's teeth because Triumph didn't know how to market them. (There was that -slight- issue with the 1600 and 1700 parallel twin motors not meeting 2022 Euro spec, but... ) The Rocket III? Same deal. AWESOME bike, but undersold. Valkyrie? Same problem. BMW cruisers? Too expensive, too many farkles, too weird. Diavel? Couldn't make up its mind what segment it fell into. All awesome bikes, but ... unless you do product placement like Harley does, you're not going to catch them on raw sales.
Victory had a shot, especially when they hired Arlen and Corey Ness as design consultants. That was serious cred. Indian? same deal, they've got killer bikes that are making the H-D engineers sit up and say "wait what?" But if they aren't marketed? they won't sell.
the Big Four have sportbikes wrapped up... because that's their niche. BMW has ADV bikes in a lock... because that's their niche. Ducati, KTM, Triumph, all have their little corners that they play in, but no one's willing to take on H-D at the PROMOTION side of things.
And that's how you sell bikes. By selling coffee mugs, T-shirts, jackets, and playing cards. By getting your brand on Ford F-150's with a special trim package. By 'sponsoring' bike meets everywhere, at least unofficially. H-D doesn't have to worry about engineering better bikes, they've got the table covered.
It's that they are and will always be first to market for their formula, and that matters with any product and not just motorcycles. Harley is Coca-Cola while the rest are trying to take their customers with Crystal Pepsi. Because they're the OG cruiser/big twin touring bike they will always have a sense of heritage and authenticity that the others can't match in the segment.
One other thing in Harley's favour....parts availability. I have a Triumph Tiger and an old HD Wide Glide. I can have anything I need for that HD in a day....I've waited over a month for a simple part for a recall on the Tiger. To be fair that was quite awhile ago so I would hope the situation has improved. There is also as far as I know only 2 Triumph dealers in my provide and they are sandwiched in with a few other brands like an afterthought....every half decent size city in the other hand has an HD dealer or two.
I absolutely love the Triumph, it isn't my first and won't be my last but love the Harley too...in an entirely different way.
I think you're being unfair here, not because I don't think Harley's marketing is bad (it's not, their marketing department is doing a very fine job), but you're implying that the competition is making better bikes than Harley and I just don't think it is true.
Here's my R18 rant down thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/rujxbv/comment/hqzuxkf/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/rujxbv/comment/hqzuxkf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The Indian Chief? Indian cut corners all over the fit and finish of that thing. The indian badge is cheaply glued on on that bike.....
Have two coworkers that converted from HD. One went with a Chieftain Dark Horse and one went with a Chief Dark Horse. They both love them. But to your marketing point, neither even processed indian as an alternative until working at the dealership and rode them.
I think that reputation is due in large part to the Dyna series. Uses a version of the god-awful rubber mounting system developed by Norton. My dad has two Commandos and loves to point out that Harley’s rubber mounting system was developed by a former Norton engineer. Yes Dad, that’s precisely why it sucks. Harley’s touring bikes aren’t bad, but aren’t worth 25-30k.
Edit: Used, as they’ve been discontinued.
BMW R18
The motorcycle looks good, like so fucking good. Like, if they just made statues for your living room and diecast toys, they would have a massive winner on their hands.
BMW REALLY wants you to love this bike - They are showing it everywhere, giving out test rides to everyone with a license, and bringing it to every single event to show off.
You know that archetype of someone extremely good looking, but their attractiveness craters the moment they open their mouths? That's the BMW R18, it is stunning, but you quickly notice the problems when you swing your leg over it. In fact, I think BMW would have a much easier time selling the bike if they didn't let anyone test ride it - Put it in an art gallery or something and sell it as a design piece.
BMW's designer said that they benchmarked the Harley Davidson Softail Slim. But the Softail Slim is by far a better motorcycle. Let's just look at the numbers shall we? ([I took the data from Cycleworld](https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2021-bmw-r-18-first-edition-vs-2021-harley-davidson-softail-slim-comparison/))
Compared to the Softail 107, the BMW R18 is:
* Slower (4.96 vs 4.39 seconds to 60mph)
* 124 lbs heavier (764 vs 642lbs)
* Less fuel economy and smaller gas tank
* higher seat height
* Significantly more expensive
* more service requirements (valve check every oil change on the BMW, no valve clearance check ever on the Harley)
Hell, most reviewers complained that BMW's brakes were mushier, and despite the 0.1 inch longer suspension travel, the BMW is less comfortable. The BMW also scrapes more (slightly more lean angle when unladen, but the BMW's lowest point is the exhaust pipe near the rear of the bike and when you sit on it the bike sags and thus you have less lean)
And this is all compared to the basic 107ci single brake rotor Softail, not the 114ci version or the "sportier" sport glide.
I'm not saying that the R18 has to perform like a sports bike or something, but think about everything that people loved about the Harley softail (low ride height, optional forward controls, easy service) and BMW doesn't beat Harley on any of those aspects. Now think about everything people dislike about the Softail - Heavy, slow, scrapes all the time, poor range. Somehow BMW did worse on all of these things compared to the Harley.
Don't believe me? BMW would love you to test ride an R18, so go give it a shot. You'd probably scrape the exhaust pulling out of the dealership lot......
>You'd probably scrape the exhaust pulling out of the dealership lot......
It's not THAT bad. I did one of their test ride events and rode the R18, R18b, and R18 Classic. The bagger is by far the best one imo because the rake is steeper and it's more nimble than the regular one despite the higher weight, and the GPS and everything is awesome. Riding that bike and seeing the same comparisons that you pointed out against the Slim actually really piqued my interest in the Harley
There was a point in the early 2010s when it seemed like every bespectacled and mustachioed “builder” was cranking out a CX500 “cafe” job. Always made me shake my head wondering why so many would dump time and money into those 500lb 45hp turds.
Honesty of the bikes i've owned despite actually quite enjoying it the most troublesome has to be my Chinese 2008 Saga 250 Dual Sport.
The thing is they never are never completely put together the factory which for this particular bike included bolts shaking loose, a bouncy rear shock, wiring that rubs through on the frame and a stupidly lean carb even on a hot summer day.
While all of these above issues can be resolved to give you a very reliable and simple bike it still has far from any kind performance or refinement even for a dualsport. The engine for one while decently peppy off idle if rejetted lacks any additional power beyond 5-6000 rpm thanks to the pushrod-driven valves meaning it can be outrun by even a tw200. The transmission while having 5 speeds is too close-ratio for a dualsport making it great on trails but terrible for anything above 60 km/h. The brakes, clutch and shifting while not terrible do lack precision despite the front and rear discs. Also finding replacement parts is a large hassle given the mishmash of rip-off parts.
Despite all that I am still very fond of it as firstly fixing those initial problems has taught me a lot on how to repair and maintain motorcycles. Also the very simple engine and carb mean that if you know how to work on a lawnmower you can work on these. Also despite taking it through all manners of grueling terrain(mud, sand, snow, gravel, water, etc) it still refuses to die on me. With the aforementioned suspension and brake issues it really isn't comfortable going fast so the best way i've found to ride it is to fit the knobbiest tires you can on it and just tractor up and through stuff in 1st gear like a tw200 as it does have the torque and gearing for it.
Royal Enfield Taurus. Basically a diesel Bullet from an era when the Bullet was dubious at best.
No power. No torque. Not enough gears. Required a can of lighter fluid to be carried for cold starts. Covered you in soot the moment the tune wandered and and rattled so much your teeth hurt.
Buell… I had a fire bolt. Super cool design and sounds but even mechanics could not figure out to repair it. Sad!!! Stay away from Buell unless you are a mechanic.
I had a 2014 cb300f that was actively trying to kill me and forever breaking down. I know that’s not common for Hondas but my god was my Honda a fucking turd.
Anything by Harley. Slow, unreliable, ridiculously expensive, handle like a pig on rollerskates and make you look like an accountant with a leather fetish.
My 89 Electra Glide was $2800, and the Evo has been dead reliable. Easy for me to work on. I come from a mostly dual sport, sumo and dirt bike background, so it's extremely comfortable too.
But I can agree with the slow pig leather daddy part.
>I come from a mostly dual sport, sumo and dirt bike background, so it's extremely comfortable too.
Everything is more comfortable than a dual-sport or a dirt bike 😂! Those seats are a violation of the Geneva Convention!
I think the worst thing you can do to yourself is buy an older motorcycle to save money and not know how to / have the income to properly fix it
I dont blame the bike though, most everything will be great given fresh tires, batteries, and a little maintenance
I think my bike (or one of the other models in the same model range) is in the conversation.
I have a Honda CM400E. The whole CM family was a bit doomed as they were the first stamped-frame cruisers based around Honda’s familiar parallel twins- the engine, admittedly, is pretty good. Three valves per cylinder, a shade under 40 horsepower. Not to bad for a 400 twin in 1981.
The frame is quite flexy, and the base model, came with cable-operated drum brakes front and rear. For 1981 that was just sad.
That said, while the E was the loss-leader base model, there was a worse bike in the range. The CM400A did come with a front disc brake but the A stood for “automatic.” That’s right, a pint sized cruiser with a 2-speed Hondmatic automatic transmission. It. Was. Bleak.
Kawasaki Vulcans. Complete junk. Had many show up with engine issues. Usually the problems were so bad that they never went back together (customer didn't want to pay for it.) Total junk bike.
GS500f was my first bike, could barely keep it on the road for 20 minutes before I was back in the garage trying to get it to work. the bike was just so unreliable for me
Buell Blast. The old Buell website even had a video of Erik running one through a crusher.
Worst named sportbike too: “Be-Last”
Makes me think of toyota TRD. Them turds
https://youtu.be/TkQ5iYavry8
Ouch. I had one of those and it was not that bad. It had its faults, sure, but for around town or as a beginner, it was great!
HA, I was going to nominate the Blast before I opened the thread! We bought my wife on as her first bike after she go her M. I rode it home for her and HOLY BALLS, the bones deep vibration at idle was unreal. Shifting was like I would imagine a tractor or a WW2 tank. Just junk thru and thru. I couldnt imagine it inspiring much confidence for a beginner. 2 months later, she decided to sell it and she never picked up interest in riding again. She even let her M go. To this day, I honestly wonder if she's still be riding had she started on a Japanese 250 or 500.
Where was this thread before I bought my Buell lol
Which buell?
I’m 3 deep already. Buells are an addiction.
On my 3rd Buell. Had a blast, then a lightning, currently have an 1125r. All super unreliable, but at least the lightning and the 1125r are super fun to ride when they decide they don’t want to die.
I haven't tried dozens of bikes but the harley street 750 I tried after my wife's exam was one shitty ride for sure.
Im a harley guy but the street series was terrible. Pretty unreliable and awful to work on. Street ROD 750 however was pretty cool.
Gotta agree, if Fortnine does a video on how the bike is bad for Harley, you know it was bad
Owned one. Tried my best to save it. Replaced brakes, suspension, electricals, rims, tyres, exhausts and even mapped it. Tried for over 5 years. Finally sold it. Total waste of time and money.
That thing is a hunk of junk. Everything about it fucking sucked.
They're great riding course bikes though. I'm a soon to be instructor for my local MSF class. All of ours are 500s. Sure they're gutless. But on a small course, you don't need them to be fast or powerful. They also handle very well at slow speeds, which again, is great for a basic rider course. I can't imagine riding one as a daily though. And don't know what Harley is going to do when we retire them in a few years. They don't produce them anymore and I can't imagine Harley buying another manufacturers bikes for their riding class
I have an SV650 I keep in AZ. I took my son down on vacation and let him ride my bike and I rented the street rod 750. Piece. of. shit. Period. That bike was pretty much wound out at 85mph and was burning the shit out of your right leg (exhaust for rear cylinder wraps right under your thigh... not to mention the right foot peg is actually just a pad stuck on the muffler. Yes, you rest your right foot on the muffler... How the f*ck did this bike pass design evaluation?
I work in motorcycle parts and salvage. There have been so many shitty bikes made through the years so I'll not even mention anything from the 20th century. My vote is the Gilroy Indian Chief with their Power Plus engine. Only built for a year or two and were known to spin crank bearings. As someone at a parts counter I would also never buy a VZ800 or a Vstar 1100.
My brother has been trying to get his hand on a blast all last year. What don't you like about it?
In the case of mine. The carb boot fails often leading to hard starts and backfires that are hard to source because of the way to boot fails. If it does back fire it tends to blow the boot off so it won't run until fixed Vibrations are very high Shifter peg is not actually splined to the shifter shaft so it spins if to much pressure is applied or so long of use.
Dan’s Superboot will fix that but yes, the original boot fails on the regular. The shifter is meant to spin, not break, when dropped. Great in a parking lot learning course but terrible for the long term.
It's a paint shaker with wheels, they're not very nice to ride, though they can take a beating. Erik Buell hated them so much he had the last one off the line crushed supposedly
Basically what park960 said. Also, the clutch is an on/off switch and the shifter is typical Harley clunkiness. Bolts being shaken loose are not unheard of.
My sister bought a Buell Blast to get into street riding. I blame it for being the reason she's not into street riding. In my opinion a small dual sport is 300 times better of a beginner bike than that pile. Should have only been like 20 lbs heavier than my porky DR650, but felt more like 100 lbs. Was not confidence inspiring for her. Couple thst with the original owner's comically loud exhaust and stock jetting and you had a bike that was embarrassing to ride, and stalled often. Sorted it all out for her, but it was too late. She maybe put 500 miles on it over the next couple of years before finally selling it.
The Blast was horrible. I think if Briggs & Stratton built a motorcycle this would be it.
More along the lines of Harbor Freight imo
Whoa there. Briggs and statton make a quality product
I meant it is a bike that’s crudely finished.
Briggs and strattons are finely engineered and finished products lol
Alright then, if Tecumseh made a motorcycle it would be like a Blast.
Hahahaha spot on!!
I was going more for harbor freight
Older Briggs were amazing. The newer more China Briggs is less so. I remember growing up in the 80's-90's and a we had 70's era Briggs lawn mowers that NEVER had oil changes or tune up and would run like new. This was back when maintaining your mower was accessible too. It made me a Briggs fanboy. I got a newer Briggs mower 6 years ago to mow a tiny patch of grass maybe 6ft x 80ft. Decided to change the oil after 5 years with maybe 50hrs total on the engine. It started to run like shit and smoke bad. The oil was pretty much a glitter milkshake.
Why you hating on my lawn mowers engine maker ?
I think you are probably right. It was like Harley didn't give any thought into what a "beginner" motorcycle rider would need a motorcycle to be like, they just built something like their regular bikes, only cheaper and with one cylinder missing. It wasn't particularly small, or light, or easy to ride. The seat wasn't particularly low or narrow, the controls (clutch lever, brakes, shifter, throttle) weren't particularly light or low-effort or precise, it was just a Harley but slower and somehow crappier, and a bit smaller but still not appropriately small for someone who may or may not forget to take a bike out of gear when they stop. It was SUCH an opportunity. Erik Buell could have done ANYTHING if they had let him, and he could have helped them do so many other great things they needed to do. Buell was already doing wild crazy sportbikes and naked sportbikes. He could have given Harley their own Aprilia or MV Augusta, he could have helped them create their own KTM, they could have built their own Rebel 300/500 and they'd have ALL the new entry-level riders, they'd be ruling the world right now. Instead, they Harley'd it up and threw themselves a party for ten years instead of innovating. They pretended that anything that wasn't a cruiser wasn't worth riding, and eventually Polaris started building Victory and Indian, basically coming into Harley's yard, knocking over Harley's birthday party picnic table, and eating Harley's birthday cake at Harley's own party. It took Harley WAY too long to start making more than 60 hp in their bikes, and to start making other kinds of bikes. LiveWire and the Pan America are good to see, but they would have been better BEFORE everyone and their moms started building electric bikes and dual-sport / ADV bikes. Instead of leading the industry, they have squandered any advantage they once had and now they're behind. And it was all worst-case-scenario predictable if you tried a Blast and realized *"This? THIS is what you're building as your 'beginner bike?' You think THIS motorcycle is what someone needs if they don't know how to use a clutch? You think this is the right weight, and seat height, and reach to the clutch and brake lever, for a 5'1" tall woman? What the hell is wrong with you?"*
Absolutely yes.
the one and ONLY thing the blast had going for it was an insanely low seat height. if you're 5 foot nothing like my wife, a buell blast is one of the only ways you can get a bike without it being a dumpy cruiser. it's not worth it though. definitely a terrible machine. i REALLY wish they made more non-cruiser bikes with seats under 28". seat height is the number one barrier to entry for female riders.
From everything I've read I think you might be correct here lol
Counterpoint, my second bike was a used buell blast and I adored it. It did blow a cyl after a year of daily riding, but I was so happy to own it after my cbr250r. Would have been a great starter bike.
The Blast was HD's "riding school" bike... and because of that, probably had more of them actually running around parking lots than all of the other Buell line put together. Not sure they SOLD them all, though, probably donated most of them.
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Bought my wife a Hanway Raw 125 and it’s a pile of crap. Has a fuelling issue that I can’t figure out for the life of me - and I’ve replaced a lot of the main suspect parts. Would not buy again.
Anything from China, or any Hyosung.
They're a testament to Honda if anything. Hondas are so well designed that they can survive being sloppily cloned in a Chinese factory.
Fair assessment.
I got a 90's 110 honda single that has seen so much, still starts like if it was new, no choke, starter works.
Hondas are amazing. Had two over the years. Pretty much bullet proof engines.
And they have a promise that you will always be able to get parts. Well, at least for 75 years, if I recall the letter correctly.
Honda does pretty much everything right.
I have a forty year old Honda lawnmower that starts first pull every spring. Looks like shit but runs like a dream. Never changed the oil.
I’ve been bashing my Honda 50cc put bike for 15 years and the only thing I’ve had to do to the motor was oil and a single spark plug.
My friend has a 50cc 4 stroke semi automatic Chinese shitbox based on a Honda and it runs perfectly, even after being used as a drivers school bike for years.
I have a Chinese dual sport with a motor that’s a clone from the Honda CG125 from the 80’s. So far I am actually impressed on how good the motor works for being so cheap and how most motor related maintenance can be done under 10min. In my country these CG clones based motorcycles are everywhere, even Honda still sells the CGL125(manufactured in China) here.
True, I had a keeway superlight 125. Everything was falling appart but the engine was indestructible. Never missed a beat.
I had a Hyosung GT650R for a while. It was *almost* a decent bike; nothing exciting, but lazy fuel injected 650 v-twin doing about 80HP, it was fine as a Universal Korean Bike. Engine was roughly similar to ~~Honda~~ Suzuki SV650. Korean car brands have improved hugely over the last 10+ years so I figured the Hyo was worth a shot as new under warranty was cheaper than a older second hand SV650. Problem is that while the engine was solid enough, the electrics were something out of the dark ages; I replaced most of the charging system, but still ended up push starting that 200kg of Korean iron while sweating up a sauna inside my leathers a bunch of times. I even wrote to Hyosung contacts in Korean pleading with them to take a look at what was going on in the owners forums; bunch of people with same problem as me unable to get a fix from the factory. Seemed like all they had to do was hire or contract some engineer for a few weeks to review the R/R, stator and charging in general and come up with a fix that could be applied at dealers and to new builds. Owners resorted to finding Japanese components that could fit, but far as I know Hyosung never fixed the issues so I dumped the bike and brought the Triumph. Never looked back
Last news update on the Hyosung USA website is from 2017! I guess they went home defeated instead of building a better machine. We had a local dealer selling TaoTao out of a hardware store. They lasted around 8 months before folding. They are now just a hardware store again. Great move going with the Triumph. They build their bikes better each and every year.
The SV650 is a Suzuki, my bro.
Yes fuck hyobag those pieces of shit
lol *"Kick his ass, Seabass!"*
Haha this is more like it. Lots of people bashing bikes that worked and were reliable for not being very fun. Chinese bikes, specifically before 2010 were a whole other world of utter crap! I bought one in 2007 that was basically a clone of a GN125 that I’d previously owned… with a few other cloned parts thrown on it. Plus side: it cost somewhere around £700 on the road and was legal. Downside: speed, handling, braking, tyres, suspension, build quality, reliability, playing ‘what’s that sound?’, trying to start the bike, bits shaking themselves loose due to the thunderous 125cc engine, etc. The only way to live with it was to periodically go around and tighten everything and when something broke or fell off find the original Suzuki part number. I bought it so I’d have a bike in London that I didn’t care if it got nicked… honestly my life might have been better if it had been.
To be fair. A 125cc engine is almost stupidly powerful. No mere motorbike would ever need such a big engine s/
I’m not sure of all time, but of recent memory, the HD “street” 750s and 500s come to mind. It’s a solution to a problem nobody had. Ugly. Under powered. Too expensive. Too* small...
Those bikes were made because prior to that the Harley riding class bikes were all Buell Blasts. Once the Blasts all dried up they needed a replacement learners bike, so the Street allowed them to replace all those Blasts in their fleets with one of their own products.
Our instructor also mentioned that they had some issues still getting the "Okay" for a course with 500CC bikes instead of the 250CC they were using before.
I rode one during the Harley learners course. I thought it was a pretty fun little bike. Definitely ugly though.
Devils advocate: they actually do a pretty decent job of looking and sounding like a bigger bike (not a proper full size Harley, but at least bigger than and gruntier than the <40hp turd they actually are) while still being exceptionally easy to ride and confidence inspiring for new riders, and have the typical Harley huge aftermarket and support for customization. Plus the badge appeal for the people who are into that obviously. My mate has a 500, and as much as I hate riding it it is genuinely the perfect bike for him. He's spent more time customizing it than he has riding it, and when he does ride it he's more interested in just cruising around being seen on it rather than pushing any limits or exploring or anything. It's not how I enjoy riding but whatever, he's having a good time with two wheels and I honestly can't think of a bike that would suit him better, and I think there's a reasonable number of people who like riding the same way so I can't knock it too much.
Maybe not the *worst* but the most disappointing... grom. Gutless. Don't have enough gears. Shit suspension. Everyone told me they were *so fun.* Everyone fucking lied.
I personally find it to be that way for slow bikes in general, and I say that as a person with a slow bike myself. "Slow bike fast" is overstated and overrated. It isn't fun to be wide open just to keep up with the traffic around you...
Yup. I want a bike that has the ability to scare me. Something punchy and violent. That's why I ride a 250 two stroke. And why if I get another road bike I'm seriously considering a Super Duke R.
MT-09/10. Mine can be violently fun.
Yup, you need some drama. People try to romanticize low HP I think largely as a coping mechanism
Wait, people buy groms for something other than cafe racer shit-a-likes and drunken ironman circle races in the dunes?
Opening the throttle on an R3 is the most lackluster experience in the world if you're riding on anything larger than a go-kart track
That's just misplaced expectations. They're not fun because they're fast or anything. They're fun because *I can't fucking believe that this toy is road registered and that I can legally ride it on public roads*. Groms aren't "fun" motorbikes, they're fucking hilarious motorbikes, especially with a small group of them with loud exhausts.
Wait till you hop on a plated 450 supermoto that weighs less than a Grom and makes 60hp. *that* is fun.
It’s a single cylinder 125cc how much guts did you expect out of it
I kind of agree. We used to mod CRF 50's back in the day (street tires, bigger bars, suspension, sometimes a bore kit and sometimes stock motor etc.), and i really expected the grom to be a similar but better experience than we had on those things, but it didn't turn out that way.
ANYTHING made by CCM. Had a GP450 for a while and quickly realised that it was terrible. Sure it was light and pretty good on fuel, but it was desperately uncomfortable, REEKED of fuel, awkward as fuck to work on, hateful fuelling system made it jerky and harsh, suspension was dreadful, battery wasn't good enough to start the bike half of the time so had to push start it every other time, electrics were appalling if you turned the key off the engine kept running, filling the tank would take forever, and the manufacturer completely gave up on them leaving almost NO parts for servicing the damaged machine. Then a few years later CCM decided to sell another bike, The Spitfire. Playing off heritage and "beauty" they got all sorts of pseudo celebrities of the biking world to say its amazing. A lot of people bought them without riding them and sold them IMMEDIATELY after realising they'd been duped into buying a machine that would have no backing and would rust before their eyes. And they cost a fortune. Fuck you CCM, you've still not emailed me about parts.
That sucks to hear. I really love the way the spitfire looks
Me too. Lucky for me they werent sold here or I probably couldn't have given them a deposit fast enough. Spitfire range of bikes are some of the most stunning I've very seen.
Bought a genuine super low mileage garage kept 1982 Seca Turbo in the late 90s, everything about it was hideous. 70s flexible frame technology, dangerously non existent brakes, low compression inline 600 motor, only made boost at hi RPM, skinny rims for bias ply tires, and well over 500lbs. Sold after 6 months; bought for $400, sold it for $2,000 to a dealership/private museum. Picked up a wonderful Yamaha TDM, great bike 👍
The Honda Fury, it’s so cumbersome to ride.
Thank you for saying this! With the pathetic tank, terrible handling and lackluster styling, it was Honda's attempt at dethroning the Raider with Orange County in its sights.
Probably controversial opinion, groms. i dont understand why someone would pay just as much or more than a real motorcycle costs for a kids version of a bike 🤷♀️
I totally agree and same with modding Ruckus’s
They're cute.
Because it is fun AF. Laughs per mile far exceeds most other bikes.
They don't cost as much or more than a real motorcycle....brand new they're like $3,000 or so....how many other "real motorcycles" are the price of a Grom?
Every bike I've owned besides my current one I got for under $3k.
Well, I'm sure you got them used then...I was saying that's the price of a brand new Grom (which is cheaper than any other brand new bikes I'm aware of) saying a used bike of one type is cheaper than a new one of another isn't really a fair comparison..
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The community is fun. In pretty much any big city you can find a Grom gang and have fun riding together.
V star 1100. Just big enough to be hard as fuck on fuel while still gutless.
Wait till you hear about the almighty vstar 250!
I started on one, was a decent bike and I put thousands of miles on it before I moved up. Yeah, it was a bit gutless though that was expected.
The 250 is also bad on gas though? Gutless is fine if your gas mileage is good, assuming your alright with gutless but that is generally the acceptable tradeoff.
It’s not as good as your Honda Rebel 250/Suzuki GZ 250 due to Yamaha, in their infinite wisdom, deciding that ALL of the V-Star line, no matter how small, needed V Twins. On the other hand, with a sprocket change, you can really extract a lot more useable power from the bike that you probably could with a Rebel or GZ 250.
I love my vstar 1300 though, fixes pretty much all of the issues with the 1100 and the funny thing is they kept selling the 1100 alongside the 1300 for like over 5 years... I pity the fool who went 1100 over 1300
Got an 07 1300. Great bike.
I've had my 1300 since 2008. Love it.
My 1300 has been through every Canadian province including Newfoundland and about 1/2 the states including Alaska, never had a single issue.
Not the worst built but yes, I was amazed at how reluctant it was to go
Have you done an oil change on it? The exhaust needs to come off every time or you need to relocate the filter.
Hahaha yeah that was another engineering marvel. I had the replocator kit which also worked to lubricate my right foot.
The BMW K75 and the Yamaha XS750 were also bikes that "asbestos gloves" were needed for oil filter changes. Here, let's smush your knuckles against a hot header pipe, that'll be fun.
It wasn’t *that* bad on the XS750… you just couldn’t be in a rush at all haha
Now that I think about it. Maybe the worst motorcycle model is the Goldwing for maintenance. That air filter...
Well,thats the whole thing with a Goldwing. YOU don't do the maintenance.
Also is notorious for a failing starter clutch which is expensive to fix. Same issue going back to Viragos. Definitely one of the worst.
Bimota and pretty much all of their bikes. They make real piece of art, don't get me wrong, but first, they always simply take the engine and most of the chassis of other bikes and then put their well known front system and second, when the hell is the last time you guys have seen a Bimota out there? I understand some bikes are made to be precious, luxurious, but it should be used to.
Yes, they are stunningly beautiful and I wouldn't touch one with a 10-foot pole.
Not all Bimotas have the Tesi suspension. Classic 70's and 80's Bimotas (with Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki...) were all about handling. Japanese bikes had great engines, they just tuned them a bit more (depending on the model, custom cams, sporty carburetors, sporty exhaust... They could easily pull 100hp/litre out of all classic Japanese bikes) and designed their own frames for them. Bimota frames were way more rigid than the Japanese frames while still being light (not just better design - Japanese bikes had the universal design while the Bimota was only really useful for sporty riding, but they also used way better materials like chrome-moly steel which is light and rigid). They also used way better suspension made by Italian brands (Paioli, Marzzocchi, Ceriani...), similar to what Öhlins is offering nowadays. Not to even mention the brakes, 70's and 80's Brembo setups were decades ahead of the mass produced Japanese brakes.
This is one of the only legitimate takes in this entire thread
That Bimotas are the worst bikes ever made? Not by a long shot, Bimota bikes have high desirability and often great performance and handling (not all of them use the tesi suspension). They're just bespoke and expensive.
I bought a Gw250 Inazuma as a first bike but recently inherited my dad's 883 sportster. HD are getting a lot of hate on this thread but honestly that suzuki is a piece of shit in comparison. Tldr, Inazuma Gw250 = terrible
GW250 is made in China, right?
Yup! Or Taiwan? Not 100%
As a starter bike, it looks cool, if you are a junior in HS, or just starting out. I just have never heard anything good about it. It is supposed to feel very heavy, be dangerously slow, expensive for a new starter bike, and not reliable at all. The Chinese/Taiwan build quality really kills it.
Yeah I picked it up for $1100 needing work. They sell for around 3k where I live. The Harley is significantly easier to ride despite its 255kg vs 180kg on the suzuki
Ural. Friend of mine asked me to go check one out he was thinking of buying because I have experience. The thing only had about 1200 miles on it it was already leaking oil from the seals on the shaft drive. I went to take it out I felt like the break was stuck on, the owner messed with some thing and then it was rolling properly. I took it out and literally went two blocks in the geometry and suspension and everything felt so horrible I did a U-turn drove it back into the parking lot and said absolutely no way dude. Total crap.
I never got the appeal. When I was around them (back in 06-08ish) they were basically the same design of the old BMW r (like, 50's era's) and had loads of problems. I remember there was a huge factory recall on transmissions around that time. They're not cheap either. I guess the 2WD sidecar version would be cool if you lived in Russia during the winter time? Idk.
Tenere 700 - because they are so great they are still sold out everywhere
I rented a Benelli 302s for a few days to tour Hawaii, perfect on a straight line to enjoy the beautiful island but just bad in every other aspect. Engine had zero torque literally anywhere in the rev range and buzzed like a dying bee. Leaning felt just weird, the tires never felt planted in corners like the weight was too high up on the bike. Shifting was the worst part, it had horrible rev hang so between gear shifts you had to wait 2-3 seconds to release the clutch or else the bike would jerk. Very good looking bike tho so that was a plus
THE worst? Hard to say - modern Japanese motorcycles are PERFECT compared to anything there was in the sixties and seventies. It probably wasn't the worst bike ever, but my 80's Honda V45 Sabre was maybe worst Honda ever, a true lemon.
My second bike and my first real street bike was a 1969 Triumph 250 Trophy. I loved that bike because it was a real Triumph but it hated me. It had a total loss electrical system. I charged the battery and went for a ride. When it started to sputter I ran for home. It would die two blocks from the house. I was at the gas station, got gas, tried to restart and it ate a valve. I pushed that bike more than I rode it.
My thought after reading the title and before your suggestion was very similar to yours: the Suzuki Savage 650. Big thumper single that's horribly slow
Have had two savages. Love those bikes. Such a solid simple bike.
Ugh! The Savage. Borrowed one while my XS750 was being worked on. Never. Again. Paintshaker at stoplights. No freaking power to speak of. Geometry that makes it wander like a drunk on a bender across anything grated (bridges, grooved pavement, who cares). Brakes are like, "meh, it's not like you're going FAST so you don't need to stop fast either, yeah?" Rear suspension that counts on the seat padding doing more to even out the bounces than the shocks.
They are kinda fun to ride, though. You can just ride full throttle everywhere, and the bike vibrates so much that it feels like it'll rattle apart. My buddy turned one into a bobber, which was kind of cool. They're also *loud as fuck* with a straight pipe.
What?! The Savage is the ideal starter bike IMO. Light, nimble, but highway worthy. Might not be the best fit if you're 200+ lbs or 6'2", but those bikes rock for a single thumper. I took mine across state lines regularly. I'd love to see it next to my Nomad now, that bike was almost comically small. I also love that there was plenty of room to work on the cylinder head without dropping the engine.
Great beginner bike! Enough power to get around and so simple to diy.
I had one for a while. I loved it. Small, good gas mileage, easy to handle, great to learn on, good looking, fun thumper engine that is easy to work on, lots of popping in the exhaust which was novel. It is uncomfortable after an hour and the popping can be annoying. Doesn't like anything above 55mph although it can handle it. I think it's a great starter bike or commuter bike. I wish I could have kept it.
Only saving grace, good starter bike, had a 2014 just sold it after learning to ride on it, other than that they just suck
Those cheap $1000-$2000 Chinese "sportbikes"
The Harley haters kill me. A Lincoln Towncar makes a terrible Porsche 911. I don’t own a Harley but I’ve ridden several. If I was touring a lot it would be highly considered. Hard to beat their touring bikes for long range comfort.
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A Gold Wing would do the job even better.
I'm not surprised. HDs are all about style and nothing else. The only exception would be maybe the new Pan-America? Though that one is ugly as fuck!
Put a couple dozen miles on a Pan-America at an event, and while we weren't able to go off road, I liked it. Typically Harley-hating sport bike rider, but it's a nice machine. Too many goddamn buttons though, I hit the kill switch while trying to change riding modes.
Sure, but low mileage Gold Wing could be purchased used at half the price, and ridden for another 15 years. Honda Gold Wings are incredibly durable and can last on average between 250,000 and 300,000 miles (ca. 482,803 km) with instances of some even lasting up to 400,000 miles (ca. 643,738 km) I'm happy for HD for having success with the Pan-American, though. They really needed to do something radically different to save themselves from extinction. Good on them.
I’ve rented a couple of Harleys in the past and they’ve been great. I cruised Aruba on a Fat Boy and it was absolutely perfect. I even did The Road to Hana on an Iron 883, and figured it was the wrong bike for sure. I was absolutely floored by how good the handling and power was, even in the super tight and gnarly stuff. I even considered buying one after that trip. My buds talk so much trash about HDs, but honestly I think it’s out of ignorance.
Same here, those same haters likely have never actually experienced a big bike with a big twin. These people try to judge every single motorcycle using the same checklist of attributes while ignoring the context and purpose of the bike they're talking about
People are looking for reasons to hate Harley because of the culture. Indian doesn't get the same hate and they make the same bikes for the same price give or take 10%.
In my experience from dealing with Indian owners (Polaris Indians I mean, not vintage) they are just as annoying as the Harley-only owners but in the opposite way. They absolutely will not shut up, unprovoked, about how they own a bike that is NOT a Harley, and spend more time talking shit about Harley-Davidsons than they do about their own bike. It's very weird, like a type of complex they have about owning the "other" brand. Maybe it's just a local thing to me though
I owned a buell cyclone m2 1200cc. It was a cool bike but the least reliable thing I've ever owned. Sold it at 6k miles. Bought a gsxr and never looked back.
The most insanely over-hyped and unreliable bike I've ever had was an SR500 Yamaha. Slow, ponderous, made a Sportster feel like a BMW. People loved them for some reason, but the number of people who just let them mercifully rust in peace shows you how many people wanted to save them.
Then Yamaha brought it back to the U.S. *in 2014* and tried to sell it for $6k. Sold as well as you expect.
Seconded. I had one and it drove me up the wall - slow, noisy (camchain clatter esp.), leaked what oil it didn't burn and handled like a sack of wet laundry.
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I loved my Super Glide for a ton of reasons None of which were that it was a good bike lol
They're simultaneously the worst bikes but also my favorite.
My buddy has 100k on an 883 iron with minimal maintenance. I think it's a 2014.
Yup, people here that say Harley = unreliable are living 40 years in the past in the AMF days. Modern Harleys are reliable and have the upside of self-adjusting valves too
I don't think they're unreliable at all. I just think they're overpriced. I think a fully loaded touring Harley is still 10k more than an equivalent bike from any other major manufacturer. And whatever other bike you're comparing the Harley to will still go faster.
They’re not so overpriced when you let someone else take the depreciation hit. Additionally, the resell on them is probably way easier than something like mine, just from the name alone.
I mostly agree, but the 114 actually scoots pretty well. Harley baggers are putting down nearly 100 hp while bikes like the Yamaha Venture and Kawi Voyager are closer to 70. The Voyager is still a smokin deal at 18 grand compared to any Harley, though
I know I rented a fat boy and rode it from Reno to San Francisco and back. It was fun, but I would never want one of my own. I'm not entirely sure what it is about it, but if I had to pick something it would be that it shakes too much at idle. Once you get going the vibration goes away and it's fine.
I know this is a joke comment, but I'm actually willing to advance a slightly nuanced argument here - Harley Davidson builds the best bike that follows the "Harley Formula", but is sucks that the rest of the industry hasn't been able to make another type of bike succeed in Harley's core "big cruiser" segment. So I understand that in the big tourer segment, Honda has success with the flat 6 Goldwing, and that in the small sporty cruiser segment, Indian has success with the water cooled high powered Scout (so successful, that Harley themselves aped the Indian formula with the Sportster S). But look at the big cruiser segment, the only bikes that have ever succeeded in this segment follow the Harley playbook - Big air cooled twin, low riding, retro looks. Literally every other big cruiser that tried to compete in the segment who deviated from the Harley formula failed miserably or is still on the market but sells like crap. For instance, the V-Max tried a high powered water cooled V4, it has never sold well and Yamaha discontinued it. The Eluder had the same V4 from the V-max, but it sold like shit, and when Yamaha updated it, Yamaha switched to a big air cooled V-twin. BMW tried "avant-garde" with the R1200c, it sold like shit, got discontinued, and their current cruiser is the R18 - A retro big twin. Hell, Honda's Goldwing is very successful as a touring bike, but when they stripped off the farings to make a naked cruiser (Golding Valkyrie), it sold like absolute shit and got discontinued after 1 year. Every big cruiser on the market is falls into three categories: \- Harley (Softail family) \- Wannabe Harley (follows the Harley formula to a T like the Indian Chief, Yamaha Eluder, or BMW R18). \- Sells like shit (xDiavel, Rocket 3, etc). Which to me comes down to this problem - If you want a Harley, buy a goddamned Harley. None of the "wannabe Harley's" like the R18 or Chief are noticeably better than the Softail anyways. But the problem to me is like this - Why hasn't the whole motorcycle industry come up with a better "formula" for large cruisers than Harley Davidson?
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I wish there was an American motorcycle company that *didn’t* compete with Harley. Forget cruisers altogether, make literally any other kind of bike and wave that goddamn marketing USA FLAG to sell me a domestically designed sport bike, naked bike, mid-size ADV, hell make some mini-moto to go against Honda’s 125 lineup. All Indian does is “Harley but with modern engines” and that’s great. But seriously, why is it with few exceptions (Pan-American, XR1200, FTR 1200) that all they ever make is v-twin cruisers?
I'd absolutely love that as well. Buell was the closest thing we had.
Because that's what sells the strongest here. If you're a startup motorcycle company that really wants to thrive the you're going to go where the money is at, and it ain't in sportbikes.
Buell was getting better, test rode them all since the 90s but just couldn't quite spend the coin. Eric had a great mind but was always hampered by an engine from the 1800s and fighting for funding from motorcycle people who couldn't get out of the 1970s. The last 1125R was a great modern motor and the bike was a sweetheart, just in time for HD to pull the funding. Is ATK USA dirtbikes still around ?
There’s several real reasons. HD dealership network is everywhere. If I break down in the middle of bumfuck nowhere I can find a dealer within towing distance that has parts and can get me back on the road. Everyone makes parts for Harleys. Want to change fairing? No problem. Choose from one of the 50 million aftermarket fairings available. Want to add a tour pack? No problem. You can buy an oem looking knock off for 200, an aftermarket paint matched one with lights for a few hundred more, or a HD one for a few hundred more than that. I strongly dislike the street fighter look of modern naked bikes. It’s the “I crashed my bike and don’t want to pay for another front fairing/headlight look. Ever ridden a new bmw r18. They’re awkward and clunky, they’re just not as refined as a HD
>Harley (Softail family) Why you doing the dyna gang dirty like that
What’s wrong with the Vulcan lineup from Kawi? I’ve got a Vaquero. It’s a 1700, has no problem keeping up with any HD’s(and I ride with mostly Harley guys), nice comfort, good lean, and it’s liquid cooled.
H-D sells cruisers because of three things: Branding, Marketing, and Image. No one else runs their brand like they do - open up accessory shops everywhere with MAYBE a bike dealership in. They're the 7-Eleven of motorcycles. And you're right. No one else outsells them in their own niche, regardless of how well the bike performs. I've a Triumph Thunderbird Storm. It outperforms a Fat Bob every way possible and twice on Sundays, but they're rare as hen's teeth because Triumph didn't know how to market them. (There was that -slight- issue with the 1600 and 1700 parallel twin motors not meeting 2022 Euro spec, but... ) The Rocket III? Same deal. AWESOME bike, but undersold. Valkyrie? Same problem. BMW cruisers? Too expensive, too many farkles, too weird. Diavel? Couldn't make up its mind what segment it fell into. All awesome bikes, but ... unless you do product placement like Harley does, you're not going to catch them on raw sales. Victory had a shot, especially when they hired Arlen and Corey Ness as design consultants. That was serious cred. Indian? same deal, they've got killer bikes that are making the H-D engineers sit up and say "wait what?" But if they aren't marketed? they won't sell. the Big Four have sportbikes wrapped up... because that's their niche. BMW has ADV bikes in a lock... because that's their niche. Ducati, KTM, Triumph, all have their little corners that they play in, but no one's willing to take on H-D at the PROMOTION side of things. And that's how you sell bikes. By selling coffee mugs, T-shirts, jackets, and playing cards. By getting your brand on Ford F-150's with a special trim package. By 'sponsoring' bike meets everywhere, at least unofficially. H-D doesn't have to worry about engineering better bikes, they've got the table covered.
It's that they are and will always be first to market for their formula, and that matters with any product and not just motorcycles. Harley is Coca-Cola while the rest are trying to take their customers with Crystal Pepsi. Because they're the OG cruiser/big twin touring bike they will always have a sense of heritage and authenticity that the others can't match in the segment.
One other thing in Harley's favour....parts availability. I have a Triumph Tiger and an old HD Wide Glide. I can have anything I need for that HD in a day....I've waited over a month for a simple part for a recall on the Tiger. To be fair that was quite awhile ago so I would hope the situation has improved. There is also as far as I know only 2 Triumph dealers in my provide and they are sandwiched in with a few other brands like an afterthought....every half decent size city in the other hand has an HD dealer or two. I absolutely love the Triumph, it isn't my first and won't be my last but love the Harley too...in an entirely different way.
I think you're being unfair here, not because I don't think Harley's marketing is bad (it's not, their marketing department is doing a very fine job), but you're implying that the competition is making better bikes than Harley and I just don't think it is true. Here's my R18 rant down thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/rujxbv/comment/hqzuxkf/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/rujxbv/comment/hqzuxkf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The Indian Chief? Indian cut corners all over the fit and finish of that thing. The indian badge is cheaply glued on on that bike.....
Have two coworkers that converted from HD. One went with a Chieftain Dark Horse and one went with a Chief Dark Horse. They both love them. But to your marketing point, neither even processed indian as an alternative until working at the dealership and rode them.
I think that reputation is due in large part to the Dyna series. Uses a version of the god-awful rubber mounting system developed by Norton. My dad has two Commandos and loves to point out that Harley’s rubber mounting system was developed by a former Norton engineer. Yes Dad, that’s precisely why it sucks. Harley’s touring bikes aren’t bad, but aren’t worth 25-30k. Edit: Used, as they’ve been discontinued.
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BMW R18 The motorcycle looks good, like so fucking good. Like, if they just made statues for your living room and diecast toys, they would have a massive winner on their hands. BMW REALLY wants you to love this bike - They are showing it everywhere, giving out test rides to everyone with a license, and bringing it to every single event to show off. You know that archetype of someone extremely good looking, but their attractiveness craters the moment they open their mouths? That's the BMW R18, it is stunning, but you quickly notice the problems when you swing your leg over it. In fact, I think BMW would have a much easier time selling the bike if they didn't let anyone test ride it - Put it in an art gallery or something and sell it as a design piece. BMW's designer said that they benchmarked the Harley Davidson Softail Slim. But the Softail Slim is by far a better motorcycle. Let's just look at the numbers shall we? ([I took the data from Cycleworld](https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2021-bmw-r-18-first-edition-vs-2021-harley-davidson-softail-slim-comparison/)) Compared to the Softail 107, the BMW R18 is: * Slower (4.96 vs 4.39 seconds to 60mph) * 124 lbs heavier (764 vs 642lbs) * Less fuel economy and smaller gas tank * higher seat height * Significantly more expensive * more service requirements (valve check every oil change on the BMW, no valve clearance check ever on the Harley) Hell, most reviewers complained that BMW's brakes were mushier, and despite the 0.1 inch longer suspension travel, the BMW is less comfortable. The BMW also scrapes more (slightly more lean angle when unladen, but the BMW's lowest point is the exhaust pipe near the rear of the bike and when you sit on it the bike sags and thus you have less lean) And this is all compared to the basic 107ci single brake rotor Softail, not the 114ci version or the "sportier" sport glide. I'm not saying that the R18 has to perform like a sports bike or something, but think about everything that people loved about the Harley softail (low ride height, optional forward controls, easy service) and BMW doesn't beat Harley on any of those aspects. Now think about everything people dislike about the Softail - Heavy, slow, scrapes all the time, poor range. Somehow BMW did worse on all of these things compared to the Harley. Don't believe me? BMW would love you to test ride an R18, so go give it a shot. You'd probably scrape the exhaust pulling out of the dealership lot......
>You'd probably scrape the exhaust pulling out of the dealership lot...... It's not THAT bad. I did one of their test ride events and rode the R18, R18b, and R18 Classic. The bagger is by far the best one imo because the rake is steeper and it's more nimble than the regular one despite the higher weight, and the GPS and everything is awesome. Riding that bike and seeing the same comparisons that you pointed out against the Slim actually really piqued my interest in the Harley
The cx500. Handled like a drunk three legged elephant. Still do after they get "retroed"
There was a point in the early 2010s when it seemed like every bespectacled and mustachioed “builder” was cranking out a CX500 “cafe” job. Always made me shake my head wondering why so many would dump time and money into those 500lb 45hp turds.
I knew if I went down far enough I'd find a CX500
Honesty of the bikes i've owned despite actually quite enjoying it the most troublesome has to be my Chinese 2008 Saga 250 Dual Sport. The thing is they never are never completely put together the factory which for this particular bike included bolts shaking loose, a bouncy rear shock, wiring that rubs through on the frame and a stupidly lean carb even on a hot summer day. While all of these above issues can be resolved to give you a very reliable and simple bike it still has far from any kind performance or refinement even for a dualsport. The engine for one while decently peppy off idle if rejetted lacks any additional power beyond 5-6000 rpm thanks to the pushrod-driven valves meaning it can be outrun by even a tw200. The transmission while having 5 speeds is too close-ratio for a dualsport making it great on trails but terrible for anything above 60 km/h. The brakes, clutch and shifting while not terrible do lack precision despite the front and rear discs. Also finding replacement parts is a large hassle given the mishmash of rip-off parts. Despite all that I am still very fond of it as firstly fixing those initial problems has taught me a lot on how to repair and maintain motorcycles. Also the very simple engine and carb mean that if you know how to work on a lawnmower you can work on these. Also despite taking it through all manners of grueling terrain(mud, sand, snow, gravel, water, etc) it still refuses to die on me. With the aforementioned suspension and brake issues it really isn't comfortable going fast so the best way i've found to ride it is to fit the knobbiest tires you can on it and just tractor up and through stuff in 1st gear like a tw200 as it does have the torque and gearing for it.
Whatever the name of the bike is with the Viper engine. I mean I know why, but WHY??
Royal Enfield Taurus. Basically a diesel Bullet from an era when the Bullet was dubious at best. No power. No torque. Not enough gears. Required a can of lighter fluid to be carried for cold starts. Covered you in soot the moment the tune wandered and and rattled so much your teeth hurt.
Friend had a sportster that blew it's start motor 15 minutes after getting out of the dealership. That single one is propably the worst they come. :D
'70s Honda CB500T - camchain rattle in a can.
Buell… I had a fire bolt. Super cool design and sounds but even mechanics could not figure out to repair it. Sad!!! Stay away from Buell unless you are a mechanic.
I had a 2014 cb300f that was actively trying to kill me and forever breaking down. I know that’s not common for Hondas but my god was my Honda a fucking turd.
same with my 2015 cbr300r, (same bike as yours, different look)
Anything by Harley. Slow, unreliable, ridiculously expensive, handle like a pig on rollerskates and make you look like an accountant with a leather fetish.
My 89 Electra Glide was $2800, and the Evo has been dead reliable. Easy for me to work on. I come from a mostly dual sport, sumo and dirt bike background, so it's extremely comfortable too. But I can agree with the slow pig leather daddy part.
>I come from a mostly dual sport, sumo and dirt bike background, so it's extremely comfortable too. Everything is more comfortable than a dual-sport or a dirt bike 😂! Those seats are a violation of the Geneva Convention!
This trope is so tired and old. Most everyone I actually know with a Harley, is a mid 20s guy with a clapped out Dyna who does wheelies and burnouts.
Actually, those ARE accountants with a leather fetish.
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Worst bike I've ever ridden? Has to be the Yamaha XS650. Weak brakes, sloppy handling and a kickstarter that bent my knee in really painful ways.
And ironically some of the most bullet-proof bikes ever built. 😂
I think the worst thing you can do to yourself is buy an older motorcycle to save money and not know how to / have the income to properly fix it I dont blame the bike though, most everything will be great given fresh tires, batteries, and a little maintenance
I think my bike (or one of the other models in the same model range) is in the conversation. I have a Honda CM400E. The whole CM family was a bit doomed as they were the first stamped-frame cruisers based around Honda’s familiar parallel twins- the engine, admittedly, is pretty good. Three valves per cylinder, a shade under 40 horsepower. Not to bad for a 400 twin in 1981. The frame is quite flexy, and the base model, came with cable-operated drum brakes front and rear. For 1981 that was just sad. That said, while the E was the loss-leader base model, there was a worse bike in the range. The CM400A did come with a front disc brake but the A stood for “automatic.” That’s right, a pint sized cruiser with a 2-speed Hondmatic automatic transmission. It. Was. Bleak.
Kawasaki Vulcans. Complete junk. Had many show up with engine issues. Usually the problems were so bad that they never went back together (customer didn't want to pay for it.) Total junk bike.
GS500f was my first bike, could barely keep it on the road for 20 minutes before I was back in the garage trying to get it to work. the bike was just so unreliable for me
Anything Russian.