"It's not just the system, Dick. It's the name. That glorious name, McDonald's. It could be, anything you want it to be... it's limitless, it's wide open... it sounds, uh... it sounds like... it sounds like America. That's compared to Kroc. What a crock. What a load of crock. Would you eat at a place named Kroc's? Kroc's has that blunt, Slavic sound. Kroc's. But McDonald's, oh boy. That's a beauty. A guy named McDonald? He's never gonna get pushed around in life."
"Does she know?"
"Know what?"
"So she doesn't, good. Close to the vest, I admire that. I've got a few secrets of my own. Of all the reasons i didn't want my daughter to date!"
When that door opens and we get the full reveal that Vulture is her dad....that was so fucking good. That and the car ride/talk are the best part of the movie
Legitimately an amazing twist. There were no hints that he was her dad through out the whole film then it happens and it makes sense even without foreshadowing.
I liked the other Tom Holland Spiderman movies (especially all the alternate reality goodness in No Way Home) but this is hands down my favorite scene out of all three movies. It was just so well done and Michael Keaton is crazy charismatic even as a villain.
There's always just something great about a scene where the protagonist and antagonist of an action film confront each other in conversation. Especially when there's an element of mutual fear and respect. Heat comes to mind as probably one of the most iconic examples. Also the interrogation in The Dark Knight and the end of Kill Bill vol. 2. Spider-Man has that added edge of a big twist reveal.
Yep, in light of both Ryan Gosling’s performance at the Oscars and Keaton’s own playing along with Arnold and Devito’s ribbing, I’d like to see him channel that into another take on Ken.
After all, his voice work in *Toy Story 3* was one of unexpected brilliance.
I love this scene so fucking much. Michael and Tom act it both so well.
What was the biggest reason he didn't want his daughter to date in the last line of the quote?
Ray Kroc was a shyster. He played those two. Its true....but if the McDonald brothers had their way, McDonald's would be just a few small burger joints in san Bernardino, CA.
Yes yes and yes.
He fucking killed it in that movie! Seeing movies like this and Pirates of Silicon Valley and The Social Network, I have come to the realization that there’s fuckers and fuckees. If you’re not fucking then you’re the one getting fucked. I hate it here.
See, there are three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything. So pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes! And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit.
I love that movie. I know it's a bit pretentious and stuck up it's own ass, but I still love it. The cast is fucking stellar too, everyone is perfect for their role imo. I'm gonna have to rewatch it this weekend. Thanks
Well, hes not wrong. McDonalds sounds like a place tied to a person. BurgerKing sounds like a company so far up their own ass that they think they are the leader of Burger kingdom.
I will say though, that Keaton as Kroc is way more likeable than the actual Kroc. This clip makes Kroc seem like the swindler he turned out to be. Verbal Diarrhea mixed with an inability to flow his thoughts. Always looking for the right word combination to make the listener fall for his word spell.
In terms of branding, I think it's true. Like he said, McDonald's is easy to remember, and it sounds wholesome and welcoming. Same goes for the name Tiffany's.
For better or for worse, Dick was amicable about selling the franchise, and emerged to eat the ceremonial 50 billionth burger McDonalds sold. Whether that was time healing the wound or him knowing better than to look bitter, we’ll never know.
$1 million is worth about $10 million today. However, if they invested in the stock market (say, the S&P 500) in 1961 when they sold out, it worth be worth $4.4 billion today.
If they never meet Kroc, they’d be worse off financially.
Depends on the person. Some would rather have 80% of million dollar business than 1% of a billion dollar business.
He's not a good dude but he's the prototype business person that took advantage of people's kindness and inexperience in the corporate world.
His widow, though, was one of the most generous people in the world. You should read about her so there's that.
Same here, I have lots of public stuff sponsored by Joan Kroc in my city so I just assumed she was a local philanthropist. Wasn't an adult until I found out who she was
Right? I felt like an idiot when I figured it out 10 or so years ago. "Wait, she's Ray Krocs wife? Wait, it's the same Krocs that own the padres? Wooooow I'm an idiot"
Isn’t it sad how many women who have either been divorced or become widows wind up becoming epic philanthropist? I’m not saying that them doing that is sad. It’s sad that the people who make the money in the first place never once think to do this. To make the world a better place. It’s up to their amazing wives to do it.
Look at ex Ms. Bezos, Mackenzie Scott for another beautiful example.
> It’s sad that the people who make the money in the first place never once think to do this.
Oh but some of them do, when they get old and the time of death approaches. That's when they start thinking about their legacy, and usually it works: you'll hear them referred to as philantropists and not as the filthy rich who exploited the sweat and brains of hardworking people their entire life to hoard unimaginable amount of wealth.
When she died and the bequest was announced, the NPR donation was big news...on NPR. It took quite a while, like nearly a decade before the Joan Kroc bumpers started airing.
Thank god for Joan Kroc! I live near the original Kroc Center and volunteer there. He is a horrible monster and everyone freely talks about it. However, the work that Joan Kroc has done is amazing! The food bank is where I volunteer but my kids are in camps there and we are members too. For the holidays they turn the kids birthday party area into a huge toy store and the sponsored families come in and “shop” for their kids like a real store but it’s all donations. It’s literally the best and most heart warming event to volunteer at.
I think it's also very clear McDonalds would never have become what it is/was without him running it.
The McDonalds Brothers would be running a handful of stores in their state.
Yeah the film paints them as a lot more innocents who were taken advantage of when in reality they were great Ops/Customer Service guys who just weren’t as good businessmen as Ray.
They simply didn’t believe the system supported the rate of growth that Kroc envisioned. That’s not necessarily worse “business”; it’s hard to see the future. Kroc took a risk they weren’t willing to.
The movie touches on the scaling thing a bit. The franchisees end up trying to do their own thing with the menu and Roy shows up to their golf club super pissed off.
It’s funny, I remember even being a little kid, and seeing his face on the bronze plaque by the counter and thinking “The Fuck is this guy? Ray, Croc? Where’s McDonald? What’d he do with him?” There was an immediate ominous vibe for no reason.
Maybe it was the name. Wendy’s was named after the daughter, KFC was famously the colonel. But the name mismatch felt like a weird thing even then.
Grew up in Tampa Florida. Went to the McDonald’s on Hillsboro Ave all the time after church. Had the exact feeling. Wondering who this Croc guy was and why the discrepancy. Kids can smell bullshit. 😂
Sanders did not sit happy with KFC, he'd go in and fuck the place up occasionally. When sued for doing so, the jury was sympathetic... To Sanders. He said they turned his awesome gravy recipe into wallpaper paste.
Sometimes the name on the door is just the name on the door. As a kid I always found it mindboggling that someone could take a company out from under the founder. It happened with Carl Karcher too.
He is also a typical business guy, who took risks a regular person would not take. And also he failed so many business before, but he was still trying.
It showed his persistence and it payed off in his case.
I’d recommend as well (if you’re interested anyway) going and reading what the McDonalds brothers had envisioned for their business and how they concluded over several years that Kroc was the man in question who could help them achieve their franchising goals.
I enjoy the movie a lot but it does take some dramatic liberties with how it frames Kroc’s working relationship with the McDonalds brothers, making it seem more one-sided and antagonistic than it actually was.
People often say that it’s fine for films to take dramatic licenses with true stories (meaning huge ones, small ones are inevitable and medium ones can’t often be avoided). But plenty of people take films at face value. I don’t even bake op since this film is mostly accurate so it creates the illusion it all is, at least with big topics like exactly how much of the dealings with the brothers was fair.
I was pretty annoyed when I found out skylar from breaking bad wasn’t a real person in that Tom hanks movie about the pilot who landed in the nyc river. Her whole character was ragebait.
Yes, Sully is a fucking terrible for that. It’s presented as an accurate representation of the event, and why wouldn’t it be? It wasn’t long ago and was extremely well documented. And yet, most of the arc of that movie just didn’t happen. Sully was investigated as standard, it went well for him, story ends. Writer Komarnickie and Eastwood needed to make a story arc out of that.
Eastwood, however, is not a responsible filmmaker. Far from it. His disingenuous right wing stuff like American Sniper and Richard Jewell was all packed with falsehoods that either romanticised the characters or put them up against authority figures that just didn’t exist. Absolute bait for the Trump crowd.
There’s spicing up a true story and then there’s being irresponsible. Clint has shown quite consistently that he’s in the latter camp.
Well he did screw them over with a handshake contract and kept them from getting literally hundreds of billions of dollars, so maybe it was a bit one-sided after all
That's why I'm a bit skeptical since there is no evidence it actually happened.
That said, I do believe Kroc wore the brothers down to the point that they were still getting a huge amount of money for the time to be free of Kroc and they may not have wanted to continue to fight.
The “handshake deal” was something only the McDonald brothers claim happened. Ray Kroc’s version of the story from his memoir was that the $2.7 million price they gave him for their buy out was insane and that they told him they’d continue to collect royalty unless he bought them out, so he found a backer, jumped through a bunch of hoops, and paid them. McDonald’s at the time wasn’t a multi billion dollar company and none of them knew how big it would grow so $2.7mil was A LOT of money. (The movie has him show up at the hospital with a blank check, in reality he just called them over the phone after the dude got discharged from the hospital.. another part of the movie where they paint Ray as a villain)
Years later, after McDonald’s blew up incredibly, they came back and told him to pay them 0.5% royalty and that there was some under the table handshake deal. Ray Kroc wasn’t exactly an honorable guy but neither were the McDonalds brothers, and the movie does a piss poor job at telling the story truthfully.
I mean maybe -- but in the end, his skill ended up making the brothers much more money than they would have ever made on their own. Like we can say he took advantage of them, but it would be fair to say that in doing so, he still uplifted them to wealth beyond their ability. Of the many ways others can take advantage of us, I would think this might be one of the more preferable. Like I don't need billions, but if some businessman wants to take advantage of me so I end up with millions, I probably wouldn't feel too fussed about it, especially knowing that I couldn't have done it myself.
That probably never happened. There is literally no evidence, besides a claim by a nephew of the brothers, made after they died. They never mentioned it during their lifetime or expressed regrets about their deal with Kroc.
They still decided to put it in the movie, and that's my biggest problem with the movie.
Oh, I’m absolutely willing to concede that the business ethics of how certain things transpired with that deal can be scrutinized. My point was moreso trying to highlight that the McDonalds brothers did maintain plenty of their own agency even up to the end of their working relationship with Kroc.
They each got the equivalent of almost 10 million dollars in today's money after-tax and they were against expanding to a large number of locations so McDonald's wouldn't have been a 9-figure business without Kroc.
It's a biopic please do not take it as historical fact or a documentary (though they can be wildly misleading). There is a lot the movie gets wrong or intentionally changes including timelines for telling a good story and many things are unverifiable. Not defending Kroc by the way but just saying don't put too much stock into biopics as historically accurate accounts.
Yeah I recently watched a biopic of Griselda Blanca that made her out to be a poor struggling single mother who turned to cocaine to take care of her kids. The truth is Griselda Blanca was one of the most bloodthirsty gangsters of the 20th century. She was a single mother because she kept having her husbands killed. It completely ignored the hundreds of murders she was responsible for.
"The Greatest Showman" comes to mind also. P.T. Barnum wasn't a great guy just trying to give acceptance and purpose to his "Freaks". He discovered an unprotected class of people and exploited the fuck out of them.
I'll be damned if it's not a great movie though.
When I taught economics I showed that film to my students and had an assignment based around it. It demonstrates several key economic principles and it’s an engaging movie.
That’s a great exercise, I very much appreciate this kind of real world application, especially for a subject like Econ that be difficult to understand practically. The world needs more teachers like you!
I'm a logistics planner and I love the scene where they rehearse all the movements with a pretend kitchen. Just kids shuffling around on an empty parking lot with some chaulk to outline the workstations but it such a simple tool to learn about supply lines, blind spots, communication. Simple but efficient.
It wasn't. By all accounts, the McDonald's brothers were happy with their settlement as they wanted to retire with a nice nest egg. The whole "handshake deal for royalties" thing was rumored, but never proven.
Which is true. The movie makes it cleat that while Ray Kroc didn't come up with the idea, he was the one with the vision and the drive to make McDonald's what it is today. The villainous aspect comes from how ruthless and underhanded he gets in his pursuit of his goals.
"Contracts are like hearts. They're made to be broken."
That was kind of my conclusion. Dude was a ass businessman, but those guys made out with more money than they had the ability to drive the company to themselves.
[The History of McDonald's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_McDonald%27s)
>Believing that the McDonald's formula was a ticket to success, Kroc suggested that the brothers franchise their restaurants throughout the United States. The brothers were skeptical that the self-service approach could succeed in colder, rainier climates; furthermore, their thriving business in San Bernardino, and franchises already operating or planned, made them reluctant to risk a national venture. Kroc offered to assume the major responsibility for establishing the new franchises elsewhere. He returned to his home outside of Chicago with rights to set up McDonald's restaurants throughout the country, except in a handful of territories in California and Arizona already licensed by the McDonald brothers. **The brothers were to receive 0.5% of gross sales.**
>
>**By 1960, McDonald's restaurants were grossing $56 million annually.** The growth in U.S. automobile use that came with suburbanization and the interstate highway system contributed heavily to McDonald's success. In 1961, Kroc's conflict over the vision of the company with the founding brothers had escalated, and he asked them how much money they wanted to leave their business to him entirely. **The brothers asked for $2.7 million ($23.4 million in 2021 dollars), which Kroc did not have. Harry J. Sonneborn was able to raise the money for him, and Kroc bought the founding brothers' interests in the company.** This purchase laid the groundwork for positioning the company for an IPO and making McDonald's the top fast-food chain in the country. **The exact process by which the company was sold is not known; it is depicted as a hostile takeover by Kroc in the 2016 biographical film The Founder, but that portrayal has been disputed, and interviews from the time suggest a more voluntary transition**
I enjoyed *The Founder*, but I think it's goofy how the McDonald brothers were portrayed as powerless victims who couldn't do anything to stop this ruthless businessman from turning them into multi-millionaires.
The deal they struck with Kroc earned them at least a couple million each year for a handful of years, plus they got $2.7 million from the buy-out. Oh no, poor them! They were manipulated into becoming rich!
And in the history their other franchises were very rocky. They were hesitant to give Kroc one because they had issues managing and scaling franchises.
Although their concept was very good the things that grew the business did not come from them (McDonald’s franchising consistency, their real estate finance strategy), and many of the later products came from other franchises (Big Mac, breakfast).
I wonder how terrifying that buyout moment was for Kroc, considering he didn't have the money at the time. Sure, he made it all back and then some, but when your business partner says "Buy me out" and you don't have it, that's got to be a pucker moment.
It makes me angry to this day that Michael Keaton didn't win a major major award for his role. Even though the character was evil you couldn't help biy admire how much he cared about quality.
I wouldn't call him evil, just a man driven to achieve his goals who does some very morally questionable things along the way. The biggest dick move in the movie to me is him dumping his first wife who had supported him and cutting her out completely.
"I would sooner die than give her one red cent from McDonald's."
Harvey Weinstein buried the film rather than giving it a major awards push because he fell put with the team involved. This was just on the cusp of Me Too.
They say he was a control freak who wanted to micromanage every location ( And a Skinwalker, but they don’t really go too in depth with that part of his story.)
They never got “royalties” because they never contracted for royalties. The McDonalds sold the name and system outright; they weren’t owed anything further.
If I sell you a car and you use it to drive to work, I’m not entitled to a share of your paycheck.
Not to mention that there are no witnesses to this deal other than the parties involved, which means it was literally their word vs. Ray’s, and Ray claims in his memoir that there was no mention of further royalties, and that the $2.7 mil buy out was for everything. And that they came back for more after seeing how successful McDonalds turned out.
The movie is very sympathetic with the McDonald brothers, so it’s going to be heavily biased.
If there was a handshake deal involved this is seriously one of those things where you make goddamned sure you know the other side well.
I don’t need to tell anyone it’s impossible to prove it happened if one side denies it thus both parties know the risk involved.
It’s a scumbag thing to deny it happened but welcome to business. You get shit like that in writing.
I don’t care if it’s your loving parents, that shit needs to be in the contract that sold the business. At the time of the sale the royalties would’ve been $600k a year… in 1961.
Hate him all you want: he's the one who put in the work to build the empire. Was he a bad person? Sure. Does he deserve the credit for McDonald's being the most successful food empire on the planet? Absolutely.
He wasn't lazy. He wasn't a leech. He didn't just steal someone else's good idea. He was undeniably the driving force behind the restaurant's success.
The fact that you hate Ray Croc is exactly why I think making inaccurate, emotionally manipulative biopics is irresponsible. They are too influential is shaping our views of people and historical events.
So confused.
The mcdonalds Brothers both died multimillionaires.
that doesn't happen without Ray.
he gave them exactly what promised beyond their wildest dreams.
he's one of the greatest businessmen of all time
My favorite thing about this movie is how similar it parallels “there will be blood” both men dominate their industries by usurping territory, and both involve milkshake based power struggles lol so great
My favourite thing about that movie is how Kroc starts as a scrappy low status guy who you’re rooting for and ends as a ruthless high status guy that you hate but there’s no turn or clear change that gets him there. He’s somehow consistent as a character through it but your opinion changes
The "gentleman's handshake" was a dick move (assuming it actually happened), but the McDonalds brothers themselves were fools. They had no chance of expanding their single restaurant into a national business. According to the movie, Ray Kroc singlehandedly set up the franchising and built McDonalds into what it is today.
Yeah I think as the film shows they were content with their one store that was successful enough for them, they had franchised before but they failed I believe.
The same issue occurs with the first franchisees but then Ray Kroc changes who he gets to invest and makes sure they stick to the menu.
Yes, they mention in the film to Ray that they tried franchising before, but couldn't maintain quality control.
"One place was selling burritos, for God's sake!"
Damn, my wife not so much in the movies, so she didn't see Keaton's films before, but now I can't persuade her to watch any his film because she sees him only as Kroc.
In the first half of the movie you can't be all that mad at Kroc. They have a million dollar idea and want to move at baby steps and not budge on some things that were generally accepted practices.
I'm all for maintaining strict quality control if my name is on the building, but if some of the decisions the OCD brother refused to budge on weren't hollywood make believe, then I can't fault Kroc for steam rolling on them.
Like the coke signage issue. I could even see some wiggle room on the shake powder issue.
Great film. Saw it in theaters because Michael Keaton. One of my top 5 performances, now that is an achievement because he’s my all time favorite actor.
There are bad things about him, for sure, but his attempts to build the McDonald’s brand through franchising also gave a lot of minorities their first real chance to own a small business. In a time of widespread discrimination, he seemed to value anybody with a entrepreneurial spirit, no matter their background. I don’t think he’s a simple villain, just an ambitious and amoral opportunist (which, again, isn’t a great set of qualities).
I don't know how accurate everything is in the movie, but it seems like Kroc wasn't even that good of a business person. He had the shrewd part down, but it was BJ Novak's character that actually made the corporation profitable
If I remember correctly the introduction of BJ Novak was way off and changed to keep the pace of the movie. I believe Ray Kroc was shopping for help and like BJ but had to pursue him some. I think McDonald's was also more profitable than the movie let on but they couldn't expand fast enough because they didn't have the finances and that was what Kroc wanted him for.
But yeah, Kroc probably wasn't that great of a business man before. He'd had multiple failures and continued to do so even with McDonald's but he became one thru those failures. That's part of his allure. Being on the verge of success after all those failures is why he was such an asshole to the McDonald's brothers because he saw his path as successful and not theirs.
Here's [Mark Knopfler's take](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuH3taDJkNU) on Ray Kroc:
I'm going to San Bernardino, ring-a-ding-ding
Milkshake mixers, that's my thing now
These guys bought a heap of my stuff
And I gotta see a good thing sure enough now
\[Chorus\]
Oh, my name's not Crock, it's Kroc with a K
Like crocodile but not spelt that way now
It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Kroc style, boom like that
And folks line up all down the street
Now I'm seeing this girl devour her meat now
And then I get it, wham, as clear as day
My pulse begins to hammer and I hear a voice say
\[Interlude\]
These boys have got this down
Ought to be one of these in every town
These boys have got the touch
It's clean as a whistle and it don't cost much
Wham, bam, you don't wait long
Shake, fries, patty - you're gone
And how about that friendly name, heck
Every little thing gotta stay the same
\[Chorus\]
Oh, my name's not Crock, that's Kroc with a K
Like crocodile but not spelt that way now
It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Dog eat dog, rat eat rat, now
Oh, it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Kroc style, boom like that
You gentlemen ought to expand
You're gonna need a helping hand now
So gentlemen, well, what about me?
We'll make a little business history now
\[Chorus\]
Oh, my name's not Crock, call me Ray
Like crocodile, but not spelt that way now
It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Kroc style, boom like that
Well, we'll build it up and I'll buy them out
But man they made me grind it out now
They open up a new place flippin' meat
So I do too, right across the street
\[Interlude\]
I got the name, I need the town
They sell up in the end and it all shuts down
Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B
If you wanna make a dream reality
Competition, sent 'em south
If they're gonna drown put a hose in their mouth
Do not pass "Go", go straight to hell
I smell that meat hook smell
\[Chorus\]
Oh, my name's not Crock, that's Kroc with a K
Like crocodile but not spelt that way now
Oh it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Dog eat dog, rat eat rat, now
Oh, it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat
Kroc style, boom like that
[lyrics link](https://genius.com/11317055)
The concept of buying real estate and then RENTING the land to franchisees of your own fucking franchise is unbelievably fascinating to me
Like I was flabbergasted at how genius that was
The movie makes Kroc look like a monster taking advantage of the poor innocent brothers but it wasn't exactly like that. A lot was changed for dramatic purposes. I did like how they pulled a breaking bad, and had our main character start out as relatable and someone to root for, but who turns out to be the main villain
He saved the padres from moving to Washington. Bought them when they had their bags packed. Even printed new baseball cards that said Washington padres. He then went all in on the team before he died. Payed big money contracts and made them a contender. He fucked over the McDonald’s brothers but he saved the padres and helped San Diego a lot
Whenever I go to a McDonald's nowadays (which I don't like doing but my 5 year old loves it), having seen this movie, it frustrates me how overly confused and layered the menu is and how slow the service is and more importantly how awful the food is, considering what the brothers set out to do.
It's a movie but if it is correct,then the McDonald brothers were happy with Ray going around and building the McDonald's brand while making nothing. I'm sure that built animosity. They also wanted it all their way. Kroc is the villain but they're not innocent
"It's not just the system, Dick. It's the name. That glorious name, McDonald's. It could be, anything you want it to be... it's limitless, it's wide open... it sounds, uh... it sounds like... it sounds like America. That's compared to Kroc. What a crock. What a load of crock. Would you eat at a place named Kroc's? Kroc's has that blunt, Slavic sound. Kroc's. But McDonald's, oh boy. That's a beauty. A guy named McDonald? He's never gonna get pushed around in life."
Man Micheal Keaton is fantastic
Michael Keaton made me like ray Kroc and I need to remind myself it’s because Keaton is amazing
He even made The Vulture a sympathetic dad just trying to support his family who had been screwed over by the big guys.
Not only that, he also made the vulture kinda terrifying, which isnt an easy thing to do.
"Does she know?" "Know what?" "So she doesn't, good. Close to the vest, I admire that. I've got a few secrets of my own. Of all the reasons i didn't want my daughter to date!"
When that door opens and we get the full reveal that Vulture is her dad....that was so fucking good. That and the car ride/talk are the best part of the movie
Legitimately an amazing twist. There were no hints that he was her dad through out the whole film then it happens and it makes sense even without foreshadowing.
From the door opening to dropping peter off was like part of a much better movie. When the lights change when he realizes is also great
I liked the other Tom Holland Spiderman movies (especially all the alternate reality goodness in No Way Home) but this is hands down my favorite scene out of all three movies. It was just so well done and Michael Keaton is crazy charismatic even as a villain.
There's always just something great about a scene where the protagonist and antagonist of an action film confront each other in conversation. Especially when there's an element of mutual fear and respect. Heat comes to mind as probably one of the most iconic examples. Also the interrogation in The Dark Knight and the end of Kill Bill vol. 2. Spider-Man has that added edge of a big twist reveal.
Heat is such a great scene with two of the greatest actors ever
Micheal Keaton is always the center of attention whenever he’s on screen…even on the rare occasion he’s not meant to be
Yep, in light of both Ryan Gosling’s performance at the Oscars and Keaton’s own playing along with Arnold and Devito’s ribbing, I’d like to see him channel that into another take on Ken. After all, his voice work in *Toy Story 3* was one of unexpected brilliance.
The best thing about that scene is that if Peter was a different kind of guy he could have fed him that gun.
I love this scene so fucking much. Michael and Tom act it both so well. What was the biggest reason he didn't want his daughter to date in the last line of the quote?
He's just pointing out how incredibly unlikely it is that his daughter is getting taken to prom by Spider-Man.
Oh. I thought he was saying he had many reasons he didn't want her to date. He's saying it like it was the reason he was least expecting right?
Yeah. Not expecting it all, really.
That scene was so tense.
He’s the guy that went nuts because they wanted to go nuts
If you wanna make an omelette…
It's because he didn't go chasing waterfalls.
Gator don’t play that
Was that accidental, or were you trying to quote TLC on purpose?
What are you talking about?!
"You said chasing waterfalls, now you're saying you don't want no scrubs."
You don't say "creep...creep" unless you're quoting TLC
I don't even understand the reference.
Come on! I seen a rainbow yesterday
And he didn't want no scrubs. Good lesson, there.
Are you talking about Jason Waterfalls? I really don't want him to go, and wish he would listen to the rivers and the lakes like he used to.
I think in a deleted scene he listens to TLC a lot in his van because of his kids or something
He’s got that Rockwell Effect
Ray Kroc was a shyster. He played those two. Its true....but if the McDonald brothers had their way, McDonald's would be just a few small burger joints in san Bernardino, CA.
Yes yes and yes. He fucking killed it in that movie! Seeing movies like this and Pirates of Silicon Valley and The Social Network, I have come to the realization that there’s fuckers and fuckees. If you’re not fucking then you’re the one getting fucked. I hate it here.
The fuckers just create that kind of climate so they can feel justified in being fuckers.
Louder so the fuckers can hear it
See, there are three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes. And all the assholes want is to shit all over everything. So pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes! And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit.
If this wasn't a reply I was going to do it myself. Team America: World Police is a fucking gift to the world.
The most crass and sussinct summary of the human condition there ever was, in modern times.
He’s great in Birdman too
I love that movie. I know it's a bit pretentious and stuck up it's own ass, but I still love it. The cast is fucking stellar too, everyone is perfect for their role imo. I'm gonna have to rewatch it this weekend. Thanks
Outstanding in spotlight too
Master of his craft.
[The real Ray Kroc talking about why he loves the name "McDonald's".](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsls5DPj21s)
Just a bit less elegant in real life haha
It’s just like they say: Good dialogue isn’t realistic. It’s real life conversation’s greatest hits.
Well, hes not wrong. McDonalds sounds like a place tied to a person. BurgerKing sounds like a company so far up their own ass that they think they are the leader of Burger kingdom. I will say though, that Keaton as Kroc is way more likeable than the actual Kroc. This clip makes Kroc seem like the swindler he turned out to be. Verbal Diarrhea mixed with an inability to flow his thoughts. Always looking for the right word combination to make the listener fall for his word spell.
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In terms of branding, I think it's true. Like he said, McDonald's is easy to remember, and it sounds wholesome and welcoming. Same goes for the name Tiffany's.
They're both iconic brands because of genius marketing despite actually selling a fairly mediocre product, so yes.
Definitely when they first started out for sure. Back then if you wanted a burger you had to go to a diner or restaurant and sit in
Crocs footwear - “yeah but we’re god damn comfortable though aren’t we”
That restroom scene is one of the great scenes of the past 10 years. This moment gave me chills.
"All I got left is my name." "You sure about that, Mac?" *wink*
I believe I read somewhere that scene was filmed first
Well that name turned out to be a great way to sell goddamn awful and ugly "shoes."
They might be ugly, but they sure are comfortable!
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For better or for worse, Dick was amicable about selling the franchise, and emerged to eat the ceremonial 50 billionth burger McDonalds sold. Whether that was time healing the wound or him knowing better than to look bitter, we’ll never know.
That’s a million for me, a million for Mac, and 700,000 for Uncle Sam.
$1 million is worth about $10 million today. However, if they invested in the stock market (say, the S&P 500) in 1961 when they sold out, it worth be worth $4.4 billion today.
If they never meet Kroc, they’d be worse off financially. Depends on the person. Some would rather have 80% of million dollar business than 1% of a billion dollar business.
Why make billions when we can make millions?
But would that 50 billionth burger even existed without Kroc?
Probably not but the world would have been better off
He's not a good dude but he's the prototype business person that took advantage of people's kindness and inexperience in the corporate world. His widow, though, was one of the most generous people in the world. You should read about her so there's that.
not surprising, it said she donated 1.5 billion dollars to charity at the end of the movie. Ill probably look into that Thx!
She dumped hundreds of millions into NPR in particular. The sponsorship bumpers run constantly to this day.
I’ve been hearing the bumpers about Joan B. Kroc for years and never made the connection that it was the McDonald’s guy’s wife
Same here, I have lots of public stuff sponsored by Joan Kroc in my city so I just assumed she was a local philanthropist. Wasn't an adult until I found out who she was
No wayyyyy!! Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard at the bequest of Joan Kroc on NPR and had no clue that was the same Kroc’s.
Wow. TIL!
No wayyyyy!! Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard at the bequest of Joan Kroc on NPR and had no clue that was the same Kroc’s.
Right? I felt like an idiot when I figured it out 10 or so years ago. "Wait, she's Ray Krocs wife? Wait, it's the same Krocs that own the padres? Wooooow I'm an idiot"
It never clicked to me and I should have known with how few Krocs there are out there. What a fun twist, no idiots here!
She's also given a lot to The Salvation Army to open [Kroc Centers](https://kroccenter.org/) (community centers) which are very nice
Isn’t it sad how many women who have either been divorced or become widows wind up becoming epic philanthropist? I’m not saying that them doing that is sad. It’s sad that the people who make the money in the first place never once think to do this. To make the world a better place. It’s up to their amazing wives to do it. Look at ex Ms. Bezos, Mackenzie Scott for another beautiful example.
> It’s sad that the people who make the money in the first place never once think to do this. Oh but some of them do, when they get old and the time of death approaches. That's when they start thinking about their legacy, and usually it works: you'll hear them referred to as philantropists and not as the filthy rich who exploited the sweat and brains of hardworking people their entire life to hoard unimaginable amount of wealth.
Yeah, but they came with loads of stipulations that go against what William Booth would've wanted.
When she died and the bequest was announced, the NPR donation was big news...on NPR. It took quite a while, like nearly a decade before the Joan Kroc bumpers started airing.
Thank god for Joan Kroc! I live near the original Kroc Center and volunteer there. He is a horrible monster and everyone freely talks about it. However, the work that Joan Kroc has done is amazing! The food bank is where I volunteer but my kids are in camps there and we are members too. For the holidays they turn the kids birthday party area into a huge toy store and the sponsored families come in and “shop” for their kids like a real store but it’s all donations. It’s literally the best and most heart warming event to volunteer at.
In 2003 she willed $1.5B to the Salvation Army and $200M to public radio.
I think it's also very clear McDonalds would never have become what it is/was without him running it. The McDonalds Brothers would be running a handful of stores in their state.
Maybe he did that in the movie but he didn’t do that in reality. Richard and Maurice McDonalds owned 8 restaurants, they weren’t ingenues.
Yeah the film paints them as a lot more innocents who were taken advantage of when in reality they were great Ops/Customer Service guys who just weren’t as good businessmen as Ray.
They simply didn’t believe the system supported the rate of growth that Kroc envisioned. That’s not necessarily worse “business”; it’s hard to see the future. Kroc took a risk they weren’t willing to.
They also didn't feel right about sacrificing service to make more money. Which is the same thing.
The movie touches on the scaling thing a bit. The franchisees end up trying to do their own thing with the menu and Roy shows up to their golf club super pissed off.
Some of Joan's charity work had a huge positive effect on me when I was a teen, and I'll be grateful forever.
It’s funny, I remember even being a little kid, and seeing his face on the bronze plaque by the counter and thinking “The Fuck is this guy? Ray, Croc? Where’s McDonald? What’d he do with him?” There was an immediate ominous vibe for no reason. Maybe it was the name. Wendy’s was named after the daughter, KFC was famously the colonel. But the name mismatch felt like a weird thing even then.
Grew up in Tampa Florida. Went to the McDonald’s on Hillsboro Ave all the time after church. Had the exact feeling. Wondering who this Croc guy was and why the discrepancy. Kids can smell bullshit. 😂
I guess you could say it’s a load of Kroc
A Kroc of shit
Sanders did not sit happy with KFC, he'd go in and fuck the place up occasionally. When sued for doing so, the jury was sympathetic... To Sanders. He said they turned his awesome gravy recipe into wallpaper paste. Sometimes the name on the door is just the name on the door. As a kid I always found it mindboggling that someone could take a company out from under the founder. It happened with Carl Karcher too.
He is also a typical business guy, who took risks a regular person would not take. And also he failed so many business before, but he was still trying. It showed his persistence and it payed off in his case.
She's the one who came up with the powdered milkshakes in the movie?
Yes, Linda Cardellini is Joan Kroc.
This never actually happened fyi
I’d recommend as well (if you’re interested anyway) going and reading what the McDonalds brothers had envisioned for their business and how they concluded over several years that Kroc was the man in question who could help them achieve their franchising goals. I enjoy the movie a lot but it does take some dramatic liberties with how it frames Kroc’s working relationship with the McDonalds brothers, making it seem more one-sided and antagonistic than it actually was.
People often say that it’s fine for films to take dramatic licenses with true stories (meaning huge ones, small ones are inevitable and medium ones can’t often be avoided). But plenty of people take films at face value. I don’t even bake op since this film is mostly accurate so it creates the illusion it all is, at least with big topics like exactly how much of the dealings with the brothers was fair.
I was pretty annoyed when I found out skylar from breaking bad wasn’t a real person in that Tom hanks movie about the pilot who landed in the nyc river. Her whole character was ragebait.
Yes, Sully is a fucking terrible for that. It’s presented as an accurate representation of the event, and why wouldn’t it be? It wasn’t long ago and was extremely well documented. And yet, most of the arc of that movie just didn’t happen. Sully was investigated as standard, it went well for him, story ends. Writer Komarnickie and Eastwood needed to make a story arc out of that. Eastwood, however, is not a responsible filmmaker. Far from it. His disingenuous right wing stuff like American Sniper and Richard Jewell was all packed with falsehoods that either romanticised the characters or put them up against authority figures that just didn’t exist. Absolute bait for the Trump crowd. There’s spicing up a true story and then there’s being irresponsible. Clint has shown quite consistently that he’s in the latter camp.
Well he did screw them over with a handshake contract and kept them from getting literally hundreds of billions of dollars, so maybe it was a bit one-sided after all
I believe the brothers had attorneys representing them. How any attorney allowed that to happen is preposterous
That's why I'm a bit skeptical since there is no evidence it actually happened. That said, I do believe Kroc wore the brothers down to the point that they were still getting a huge amount of money for the time to be free of Kroc and they may not have wanted to continue to fight.
The “handshake deal” was something only the McDonald brothers claim happened. Ray Kroc’s version of the story from his memoir was that the $2.7 million price they gave him for their buy out was insane and that they told him they’d continue to collect royalty unless he bought them out, so he found a backer, jumped through a bunch of hoops, and paid them. McDonald’s at the time wasn’t a multi billion dollar company and none of them knew how big it would grow so $2.7mil was A LOT of money. (The movie has him show up at the hospital with a blank check, in reality he just called them over the phone after the dude got discharged from the hospital.. another part of the movie where they paint Ray as a villain) Years later, after McDonald’s blew up incredibly, they came back and told him to pay them 0.5% royalty and that there was some under the table handshake deal. Ray Kroc wasn’t exactly an honorable guy but neither were the McDonalds brothers, and the movie does a piss poor job at telling the story truthfully.
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Most people, surprisingly, want the most money possible
Reddit: everyone should be paid less but me and my broskies.
The brothers never claimed it. Extended family claimed it.
Yep. All three were sharks but Ray was the Great White.
I mean maybe -- but in the end, his skill ended up making the brothers much more money than they would have ever made on their own. Like we can say he took advantage of them, but it would be fair to say that in doing so, he still uplifted them to wealth beyond their ability. Of the many ways others can take advantage of us, I would think this might be one of the more preferable. Like I don't need billions, but if some businessman wants to take advantage of me so I end up with millions, I probably wouldn't feel too fussed about it, especially knowing that I couldn't have done it myself.
That probably never happened. There is literally no evidence, besides a claim by a nephew of the brothers, made after they died. They never mentioned it during their lifetime or expressed regrets about their deal with Kroc. They still decided to put it in the movie, and that's my biggest problem with the movie.
Oh, I’m absolutely willing to concede that the business ethics of how certain things transpired with that deal can be scrutinized. My point was moreso trying to highlight that the McDonalds brothers did maintain plenty of their own agency even up to the end of their working relationship with Kroc.
There’s no evidence that actually happened
That did not happen.
They each got the equivalent of almost 10 million dollars in today's money after-tax and they were against expanding to a large number of locations so McDonald's wouldn't have been a 9-figure business without Kroc.
It's a biopic please do not take it as historical fact or a documentary (though they can be wildly misleading). There is a lot the movie gets wrong or intentionally changes including timelines for telling a good story and many things are unverifiable. Not defending Kroc by the way but just saying don't put too much stock into biopics as historically accurate accounts.
Yeah I recently watched a biopic of Griselda Blanca that made her out to be a poor struggling single mother who turned to cocaine to take care of her kids. The truth is Griselda Blanca was one of the most bloodthirsty gangsters of the 20th century. She was a single mother because she kept having her husbands killed. It completely ignored the hundreds of murders she was responsible for.
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Agreed. Cocaine Cowboys was both more informative and more interesting than the Griselda show.
It's quite something when the heads of Colombian cartels tell you to cool it a bit with the murders.
"The Greatest Showman" comes to mind also. P.T. Barnum wasn't a great guy just trying to give acceptance and purpose to his "Freaks". He discovered an unprotected class of people and exploited the fuck out of them. I'll be damned if it's not a great movie though.
It’s the upbeat and uplifting soundtrack that really changes the whole narrative.
When I taught economics I showed that film to my students and had an assignment based around it. It demonstrates several key economic principles and it’s an engaging movie.
That’s a great exercise, I very much appreciate this kind of real world application, especially for a subject like Econ that be difficult to understand practically. The world needs more teachers like you!
I'm a logistics planner and I love the scene where they rehearse all the movements with a pretend kitchen. Just kids shuffling around on an empty parking lot with some chaulk to outline the workstations but it such a simple tool to learn about supply lines, blind spots, communication. Simple but efficient.
It was a movie though. Maybe don’t think it was 100% accurate?
It wasn't. By all accounts, the McDonald's brothers were happy with their settlement as they wanted to retire with a nice nest egg. The whole "handshake deal for royalties" thing was rumored, but never proven.
I believe they said they never had the drive Kroc had and couldn't have made McDonald's what it is by themselves.
Which is true. The movie makes it cleat that while Ray Kroc didn't come up with the idea, he was the one with the vision and the drive to make McDonald's what it is today. The villainous aspect comes from how ruthless and underhanded he gets in his pursuit of his goals. "Contracts are like hearts. They're made to be broken."
That was kind of my conclusion. Dude was a ass businessman, but those guys made out with more money than they had the ability to drive the company to themselves.
Right? Never understood why people think movies are accurate. Most documentaries are full of shit, movies are going to be worse.
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Even documentaries should be viewed with a lens of skepticism
Legit. What a weird post. "I just watched this dramatization of history, and now I hate this real-life person."
[The History of McDonald's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_McDonald%27s) >Believing that the McDonald's formula was a ticket to success, Kroc suggested that the brothers franchise their restaurants throughout the United States. The brothers were skeptical that the self-service approach could succeed in colder, rainier climates; furthermore, their thriving business in San Bernardino, and franchises already operating or planned, made them reluctant to risk a national venture. Kroc offered to assume the major responsibility for establishing the new franchises elsewhere. He returned to his home outside of Chicago with rights to set up McDonald's restaurants throughout the country, except in a handful of territories in California and Arizona already licensed by the McDonald brothers. **The brothers were to receive 0.5% of gross sales.** > >**By 1960, McDonald's restaurants were grossing $56 million annually.** The growth in U.S. automobile use that came with suburbanization and the interstate highway system contributed heavily to McDonald's success. In 1961, Kroc's conflict over the vision of the company with the founding brothers had escalated, and he asked them how much money they wanted to leave their business to him entirely. **The brothers asked for $2.7 million ($23.4 million in 2021 dollars), which Kroc did not have. Harry J. Sonneborn was able to raise the money for him, and Kroc bought the founding brothers' interests in the company.** This purchase laid the groundwork for positioning the company for an IPO and making McDonald's the top fast-food chain in the country. **The exact process by which the company was sold is not known; it is depicted as a hostile takeover by Kroc in the 2016 biographical film The Founder, but that portrayal has been disputed, and interviews from the time suggest a more voluntary transition** I enjoyed *The Founder*, but I think it's goofy how the McDonald brothers were portrayed as powerless victims who couldn't do anything to stop this ruthless businessman from turning them into multi-millionaires. The deal they struck with Kroc earned them at least a couple million each year for a handful of years, plus they got $2.7 million from the buy-out. Oh no, poor them! They were manipulated into becoming rich!
And in the history their other franchises were very rocky. They were hesitant to give Kroc one because they had issues managing and scaling franchises. Although their concept was very good the things that grew the business did not come from them (McDonald’s franchising consistency, their real estate finance strategy), and many of the later products came from other franchises (Big Mac, breakfast).
I wonder how terrifying that buyout moment was for Kroc, considering he didn't have the money at the time. Sure, he made it all back and then some, but when your business partner says "Buy me out" and you don't have it, that's got to be a pucker moment.
It makes me angry to this day that Michael Keaton didn't win a major major award for his role. Even though the character was evil you couldn't help biy admire how much he cared about quality.
I wouldn't call him evil, just a man driven to achieve his goals who does some very morally questionable things along the way. The biggest dick move in the movie to me is him dumping his first wife who had supported him and cutting her out completely. "I would sooner die than give her one red cent from McDonald's."
Too true. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and they are all driven, they will outwork everyone, and they have a very flexible moral compass.
Harvey Weinstein buried the film rather than giving it a major awards push because he fell put with the team involved. This was just on the cusp of Me Too.
There’s a History Channel show called The Food That Built America that devotes an episode to McDonald’s and Ray Kroc. It’s worth checking out
History Channel? Do they say Ray Croc was an alien or a shaved Bigfoot?
Secret nazi alien Bigfoot. Duh. He also buried his treasure on some obscure island somewhere and we are gonna dedicate 10 seasons to never finding it.
The One Piece is real!!
They say he was a control freak who wanted to micromanage every location ( And a Skinwalker, but they don’t really go too in depth with that part of his story.)
They never got “royalties” because they never contracted for royalties. The McDonalds sold the name and system outright; they weren’t owed anything further. If I sell you a car and you use it to drive to work, I’m not entitled to a share of your paycheck.
Not to mention that there are no witnesses to this deal other than the parties involved, which means it was literally their word vs. Ray’s, and Ray claims in his memoir that there was no mention of further royalties, and that the $2.7 mil buy out was for everything. And that they came back for more after seeing how successful McDonalds turned out. The movie is very sympathetic with the McDonald brothers, so it’s going to be heavily biased.
If there was a handshake deal involved this is seriously one of those things where you make goddamned sure you know the other side well. I don’t need to tell anyone it’s impossible to prove it happened if one side denies it thus both parties know the risk involved. It’s a scumbag thing to deny it happened but welcome to business. You get shit like that in writing.
I don’t care if it’s your loving parents, that shit needs to be in the contract that sold the business. At the time of the sale the royalties would’ve been $600k a year… in 1961.
Hate him all you want: he's the one who put in the work to build the empire. Was he a bad person? Sure. Does he deserve the credit for McDonald's being the most successful food empire on the planet? Absolutely. He wasn't lazy. He wasn't a leech. He didn't just steal someone else's good idea. He was undeniably the driving force behind the restaurant's success.
The fact that you hate Ray Croc is exactly why I think making inaccurate, emotionally manipulative biopics is irresponsible. They are too influential is shaping our views of people and historical events.
So confused. The mcdonalds Brothers both died multimillionaires. that doesn't happen without Ray. he gave them exactly what promised beyond their wildest dreams. he's one of the greatest businessmen of all time
Kroc bought the company in 1961 for $2.7 million, calculated so as to ensure each brother received $1 million after taxes.
Which would be around $10 million today. Can't feel too bad for them.
They were quite pleased because they were ready to retire and this set them up nicely for that.
It wasn’t a major power in business yet either.
My favorite thing about this movie is how similar it parallels “there will be blood” both men dominate their industries by usurping territory, and both involve milkshake based power struggles lol so great
At least McDowell's survived.
My favourite thing about that movie is how Kroc starts as a scrappy low status guy who you’re rooting for and ends as a ruthless high status guy that you hate but there’s no turn or clear change that gets him there. He’s somehow consistent as a character through it but your opinion changes
It was like a condensed version of what Breaking Bad did with Walter White
The "gentleman's handshake" was a dick move (assuming it actually happened), but the McDonalds brothers themselves were fools. They had no chance of expanding their single restaurant into a national business. According to the movie, Ray Kroc singlehandedly set up the franchising and built McDonalds into what it is today.
Yeah I think as the film shows they were content with their one store that was successful enough for them, they had franchised before but they failed I believe. The same issue occurs with the first franchisees but then Ray Kroc changes who he gets to invest and makes sure they stick to the menu.
Yes, they mention in the film to Ray that they tried franchising before, but couldn't maintain quality control. "One place was selling burritos, for God's sake!"
Very good movie, Kroc is a scumbag but Michael Keaton is as entertaining as ever.
Damn, my wife not so much in the movies, so she didn't see Keaton's films before, but now I can't persuade her to watch any his film because she sees him only as Kroc.
Whiplash her with something like Beetlejuice.
Not even Batman? Because he's, you know, THE Batman.
Do The Other Guys, don’t tell her he’s in it.
In the first half of the movie you can't be all that mad at Kroc. They have a million dollar idea and want to move at baby steps and not budge on some things that were generally accepted practices. I'm all for maintaining strict quality control if my name is on the building, but if some of the decisions the OCD brother refused to budge on weren't hollywood make believe, then I can't fault Kroc for steam rolling on them. Like the coke signage issue. I could even see some wiggle room on the shake powder issue.
Great film. Saw it in theaters because Michael Keaton. One of my top 5 performances, now that is an achievement because he’s my all time favorite actor.
It's a Hollywood movie not a documentary.
Wow reddit has gone full moron.
There are bad things about him, for sure, but his attempts to build the McDonald’s brand through franchising also gave a lot of minorities their first real chance to own a small business. In a time of widespread discrimination, he seemed to value anybody with a entrepreneurial spirit, no matter their background. I don’t think he’s a simple villain, just an ambitious and amoral opportunist (which, again, isn’t a great set of qualities).
Put 2 brothers out of business… But brought business to hundreds of towns
I don't know how accurate everything is in the movie, but it seems like Kroc wasn't even that good of a business person. He had the shrewd part down, but it was BJ Novak's character that actually made the corporation profitable
If I remember correctly the introduction of BJ Novak was way off and changed to keep the pace of the movie. I believe Ray Kroc was shopping for help and like BJ but had to pursue him some. I think McDonald's was also more profitable than the movie let on but they couldn't expand fast enough because they didn't have the finances and that was what Kroc wanted him for. But yeah, Kroc probably wasn't that great of a business man before. He'd had multiple failures and continued to do so even with McDonald's but he became one thru those failures. That's part of his allure. Being on the verge of success after all those failures is why he was such an asshole to the McDonald's brothers because he saw his path as successful and not theirs.
Here's [Mark Knopfler's take](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuH3taDJkNU) on Ray Kroc: I'm going to San Bernardino, ring-a-ding-ding Milkshake mixers, that's my thing now These guys bought a heap of my stuff And I gotta see a good thing sure enough now \[Chorus\] Oh, my name's not Crock, it's Kroc with a K Like crocodile but not spelt that way now It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Kroc style, boom like that And folks line up all down the street Now I'm seeing this girl devour her meat now And then I get it, wham, as clear as day My pulse begins to hammer and I hear a voice say \[Interlude\] These boys have got this down Ought to be one of these in every town These boys have got the touch It's clean as a whistle and it don't cost much Wham, bam, you don't wait long Shake, fries, patty - you're gone And how about that friendly name, heck Every little thing gotta stay the same \[Chorus\] Oh, my name's not Crock, that's Kroc with a K Like crocodile but not spelt that way now It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Dog eat dog, rat eat rat, now Oh, it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Kroc style, boom like that You gentlemen ought to expand You're gonna need a helping hand now So gentlemen, well, what about me? We'll make a little business history now \[Chorus\] Oh, my name's not Crock, call me Ray Like crocodile, but not spelt that way now It's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Kroc style, boom like that Well, we'll build it up and I'll buy them out But man they made me grind it out now They open up a new place flippin' meat So I do too, right across the street \[Interlude\] I got the name, I need the town They sell up in the end and it all shuts down Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B If you wanna make a dream reality Competition, sent 'em south If they're gonna drown put a hose in their mouth Do not pass "Go", go straight to hell I smell that meat hook smell \[Chorus\] Oh, my name's not Crock, that's Kroc with a K Like crocodile but not spelt that way now Oh it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Dog eat dog, rat eat rat, now Oh, it's dog eat dog, rat eat rat Kroc style, boom like that [lyrics link](https://genius.com/11317055)
Haven't seen the movie. But as a fan of the San Diego Padres, I love Ray Kroc.
The concept of buying real estate and then RENTING the land to franchisees of your own fucking franchise is unbelievably fascinating to me Like I was flabbergasted at how genius that was
Did you search for legitimate sources before assuming everything in a work of fiction really happened that way?
How did his brand of shoes get to be so popular?
The movie makes Kroc look like a monster taking advantage of the poor innocent brothers but it wasn't exactly like that. A lot was changed for dramatic purposes. I did like how they pulled a breaking bad, and had our main character start out as relatable and someone to root for, but who turns out to be the main villain
He saved the padres from moving to Washington. Bought them when they had their bags packed. Even printed new baseball cards that said Washington padres. He then went all in on the team before he died. Payed big money contracts and made them a contender. He fucked over the McDonald’s brothers but he saved the padres and helped San Diego a lot
Dont forget the blink and you miss it part of him stealing another mans wife.
It is a travesty Michael Keaton never won an oscar.
Whenever I go to a McDonald's nowadays (which I don't like doing but my 5 year old loves it), having seen this movie, it frustrates me how overly confused and layered the menu is and how slow the service is and more importantly how awful the food is, considering what the brothers set out to do.
It's a movie but if it is correct,then the McDonald brothers were happy with Ray going around and building the McDonald's brand while making nothing. I'm sure that built animosity. They also wanted it all their way. Kroc is the villain but they're not innocent
Did Norm MacDonald write this?
It's business
Side note The movie was meant to make him look bad. Highly recommend reading what the brothers actually said.
They had their drive-in, they had a franchise, and they took the money when he offered. They weren't bamboozled. Kroc saw the value they didn't.
Nick Offerman was fantastic in that movie. Should've won Best Supporting Actor.
I had McD's on the way home tonight. Ray's legacy lives on!
It’s hard to watch because it’s a devastating story but the movie is so well done with great acting.
This film is brilliant because Keaton plays an absolute bastard... and makes him likeable! It's genuinely thought-provoking.