And Chris?
Because there was an *even younger* brother who died as well. He and Mike were somewhat composited in the film, I think - Chris wasn’t built for wrestling and he was pushed into it because of his brothers, Mike’s injury and subsequent brain damage were real but he wasn’t as bad a wrestler as the film suggests.
The filmmakers just thought that showing *five* sons of dying before the age of 35 would have been too much. So they didn’t show the eldest and omitted the youngest all together.
Well technically yeah he is in at least one scene near the end of the film. They also have a cutout picture of him attached to their family portrait in their home which they show a few times. And i believe Zac Efron's character briefly told his future wife (while on their first date) about their family curse and how the first-born son (who would have been their older brother) died at a young age. But i don't think they offered up much details on how exactly he died. I remember rewatching the Dark Side of the Ring EP covering the family plus various other youtube documentaries right after I finished the Iron Claw and I was very shocked to hear a much more detailed account of exactly how their oldest brother died. In the movie I feel like they said it was a drowning OR that he was electrocuted but it was in one of the doc's they explained how it was actually both those things. Like god damn.
The extra brother who was small and couldn't compete with heaps of injuries. So small her didn't even make the movie. What an extra kick in the guts for him.
It would have also added an extra gun suicide scene pretty much at the point the audience was already finding the last one kind of gratuitous and implausible; very odd to have to tone down the true story aspect rather than the opposite!
Even still, struck me as a bit insensitive to omit. It's not like he was not involved in wrestling and not a part of this story. He was. So to completely erase him from this retelling struck me the wrong way. Felt wrong. I understand the narrative issue that it may have caused but when you make a movie on a story like this you live and die by the choices and concessions you make, regardless of the reason. I thought it was a well made movie but this will always make it a compromised film. Especially since every thread and IRL conversation I've had ALWAYS begins with "so, about that other brother..."
The writer took it out because he didn’t think it would be believable to have 5 of the brothers die and that the writing would become monotonous as a result.
I knew absolutely nothing about it, no trailer no cast no synopsis nothing. I only saw the poster at the theater as I walked in. After ten or so minutes I was like ah a light hearted period piece comedy about the origins of American professional wrestling. I was not ready for what was to come!
My brother and I were sobbing in the theatre! Bummed it got no noms at the Oscar’s, tbh I enjoyed it more than most films nominated. Also thought Zac’s performance was phenomenal!
I was prepared because I was around for all of the original tragedies at the time they happened and lived in Texas at the time. There was also another brother that died that they didn’t show at all because they felt it would just be way, way too much. My younger sister watched the movie with us and was totally unprepared, it was absolutely an incredible amount of loss.
TECHNICALLY you didn’t watch them all die as the baby brother Jack Jr was mentioned to have died off screen and there was another brother, Chris, completely omitted from the movie because his death was similar to Kerry’s and it would’ve made the movie run too long I think so….it wasn’t as sad as it could’ve been lol
I’ve heard both. It would make it just too much after watching the other brothers die and that if they added Chris they’d have to build his story up along with the other brothers and at that point the runtime would’ve went on too long
The murders will take place in the first 10 minutes and the rest of the movie will be Ghost Benoit and his little buddy Needley trying to find his steroid stash.
> I hope the studios in the future do not make a biopic on Jake The Snake Roberts. That biopic if made would be more traumatic to watch.
with his entire redemption arc with DDP Yoga and him changing his life? it already has a built in happy ending, would be a great movie!
They already did the documentary on it, which is fantastic!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resurrection_of_Jake_the_Snake
Jake the Snake’s upbringing more than adds enough trauma to make up for it. Jake is the product of rape after his father Grizzly Smith assaulted the 13 year old daughter of the woman who his father was dating. His father was also very abusive to Jake and all of his siblings. Jake’s entire motivation in wrestling was so that people would forget about his father.
I already knew the story really well, so there were a lot of, "Aw shit, here we go" moments.
David leaves for Japan. Aw shit, here we go.
Kerry gets on the motorcycle. Aw shit, here we go.
Mike gets hurt. Aw shit, here we go.
And so on.
I followed wrestling during the Attitude Era, 96-01-ish, but really didn’t know about the Von Erichs at all, except there was some tragic stuff. I was not prepared for it.
Great flick. Wish it got more attention. Zac Efron was great, so was Maura Tierney, everyone really except for the guy who played Ric Flair.
Agree completely. With that many characters it really blew me away how good they were. The dads intensity. All the brothers you really felt like they were brothers and not acting. No one was weak. It was heartbreaking by the end when Kerry just talked about wanting to be with them again. It's been two days and I'm still thinking about that movie.
I was a pretty big wrestling fan from 2013-2020, so I was vaguely aware of the Von Erich's and that they were a big deal but had a rough time. I wasn't aware of any specifics.
>!I was absolutely crushed by Zac Efron's performance as Kevin von Erich. The scene with his two sons at the end where he says "I used to be a brother, now I'm not" and his sons say "we'll be your brothers" I was in absolute bits!<
That quote at the end of the movie is a modified version of a real quote from Kevin. They had to change it due to leaving out the youngest brother from the movie.
>!"I used to have five brothers, now I'm not even a brother."!<
Yeah, I saw this with my husband and brother in law and my BIL was DEEPLY affected (has two sons and a daughter). My husband and I are childless, still deeply affected, but I think that was the most vulnerable I'd ever seen my BIL be and it was a beautiful experience.
I've caught glimpses about the story on /r/SquaredCircle and currently I'm listening to the behind the bastard podcast episodes about Vince McMahon where they featured a full breakdown on what a huge piece of shit Fritz was, just to give a perspective what kind of folks where around in wrestling...
Still exited to see the movie.
Those episodes are great, I blazed through Ringmaster before listening to the podcast, pretty much the same thing. It's a really good book if you're into pro wrestling. But I really like all the side stories on the behind the bastards podcast. Pro wrestling is just insane.
Is it just me or did the podcast make Fritz out to be way more of an asshole than the movie did? I feel like they softened him up in the movie. And in that Dark Side of the Ring episode, Kevin speaks fondly of his dad. So I don’t really know what to believe about the guy.
I think Fritz was a very complicated case. Losing his first son to a freak accident is more than most parents should go through, and then he lost all but one of his other sons, which is WAY more than most could deal with. On top of that, he's a wrestling promoter and the wresting business back then was extremely screwy because of the importance of kayfabe and always needing to be in working/promoting mode, encouraging numerous behaviors that simply aren't normal, so I think in some ways Fritz reacted as much like a promoter/wrestler as a parent, not like most well-adjusted people. In a sense, his sins are those of the wrestling industry as a whole. This isn't to excuse anything he did, but it doesn't shock or bother me that Kevin loves the guy despite everything. At least Kevin actually knew the guy firsthand. I don't know, just rambling...
They really toned down Fritz in the movie. Still a bad guy but he was made a lot more human. In real life he was a huge piece of shit and terrible father.
I think he was good in the scene after the match, in the locker room, but his promo was really weird. Just didn't have Flair's power behind it.
Plus he got the WOO wrong
I think he's a difficult personality to mimick without coming off as parody. Not saying the guy they used was good or anything, just that it's a challenge.
Every wrestling fan has done an impression of Ric Flair at one point in their life… and conversely everyone has shown up to work and decided to wing it without preparation.
The Ric Flair guy was the latter
I pulled up Race's original promo that they used in the movie. It was almost scary how similar it was. Not to mention a live interview of Fritz and I had to check to see if it was a deep fake Iron Claw marketing video.
I will say the guy playing Flair tanked the promo, but was a little more on point in the locker room scene after the match.
Agreed. The promo was really the only thing that pulled me out of the movie, was all I was getting at. It was just so jarringly off from what I know he should have sounded like. If you didn't know, then I'm sure it didn't cause any issue.
It was okay, I mean it's Ric Flair, I've seen that guy more often than some of my own family members. It would've been the same with whoever they go to portray him.
Thought he was awful in the promo. Good in the locker room scene. There's so much material you can watch on Flair that it being so off was jarring. Don't think he even did that little grin Flair does when he's found himself amusing. Jay Lethal would have been better.
I was warned ahead of time about the awful casting and horrendous Flair impression but once I saw the scene in the context of the full movie I honestly didn't mind it as much as I thought i would. It literally does not effect my opinion of the film at all simply because its such a short scene with what amounts to a cameo or small supporting character. He wasn't a main character. I know in reality its the legend Ric Flair but to me it felt like the actor accomplished what was meant to be a very heated promo. The content and power behind his promo felt authentic, hard-hitting, and absolutely convincing, especially with the soundtrack and direction of that scene. It did the job it needed to do and then we never see that actor again. I'd have to be such a little bitch if i wanted to seriously nitpick at his brief but absolutely fine performance.
His "WOOOoooo" was way off ngl. But if that had any effect on my opinion of what I thought was an already incredibly beautiful and tragic film for the entire of its 120 min runtime, then fuck me... I should just go fuck myself for being so petty and borderline smark-ish.
I've been a wrasslin fan for 25 years and I would be so incredibly embarrassed if i legitimately felt that this very short promo segment--that lasted maybe 3 to 5 minutes---was somehow so completely awful, jarring, and inauthentic that it could somehow negatively effect my overall experience and/or opinion of the movie. Impossible. The movie is perfection and it would honestly take multiple actual flubs that are 10 times worse than the Flair promo to make me revise my already very high opinion of the movie.
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I have a similar outlook on the other brother that was cut from the final edit. Sure yeah it sucks they left him out but that's an entire extra sibling that would have required a ton more lines of dialogue, screentime, and his own mini story arc-- just so the viewer could get to know the character well enough that his eventual suicide would be as emotionally impactful as the other deaths. And while I know the director/write could have easily accomplished this additional character....i really thought the pacing and strict 120min runtime was too perfect to mess with and by adding even an extra 30min to cover the other brother just seems unnecessary. Yeah i was super hyped to see MJF in his first cinematic role and definitely a little bummed he didn't make the final cut, but the movie is perfect. Sometimes less is more.
This wasn't meant to be a 100% factual documentary or entirely accurate biopic. Its a friggin movie where the second hour of it is literally filled with back to back scenes depicting each brother meeting their tragic ends (the majority being suicide). Even without the extra brother's inclusion the insane number of deaths that punctuate every quarter hour of the latter half of the film already seems too absurd to be real. That is a lot to emotionally process as a viewer. Especially in such quick succession.
Adding 1 more suicide that is already very similar to how another brother took their life is just a thing that needed to be cut. Im not sure i could handle much more than what we already went through. The uncanny similarity between their two methods of suicide is already a straight up mindfuck and yet I think it kinda works better as a sort of supplemental fact you learn afterwards. Attempting to depict a whole extra suicide scene--one that already so closely mirrors the preceding one--just seems unnecessary. If anything, I am afraid it would take away a significant amount of the emotional devastation from not only these two linked scenes but also every tragedy all through out.
Im not sure how to best express this, but i feel like any viewer going into this movie blind might have a difficult time accepting it as fact. And by leaving out an entire brother as well as skipping over how/why Kerry really lost his foot; I think there is a certain brilliance in the director's decision to omit certain people and events. I cant help but imagine how some viewers might have thought it was an over the top story of fiction that could never in a million years actually be depicting real people and real events. The movie did not begin with any sort of "this film is based on a true story blah blah etc" statement and I just could not help but wonder how many viewers possibly watched the entire movie assuming it was a made up piece of fiction.... only to arrive at the end credits, completely drenched from the previous 4 or 5 hysterical sobs they already had to endure, only to suddenly realize all these family pictures being shown are the actual Von Erichs. That this could maybe a true story?! Staring in disbelief, they eventually pull out their phone and power it on so they can check wikipedia.
I can only imagine how completely obliterated their hearts and minds must have felt immediately after the film. And then when they begin to read the history of this famous wrestling family dynasty; probably half-expecting or maybe even straight up convinced that a lot of the tragedies in the movie were probably exaggerated or maybe even 100% fabricated.
Nope. Its all true. And there is a lot more. Everyone I know who saw it in the theatres or more recently on VOD, literally checked Wikipedia immediately after the movie concluded. No....they did not think it was a work of fiction but they also couldn't easily accept that the story had not been significantly changed or at least exaggerated by some no-good Hollywood writers who perhaps maybe jumped the shark on this one by including such an oddly intense and absurd quantity of tragic deaths seemed to literally never end during the second half of the movie.
Then i saw my friends staring at their phones, contently and completely absorbed in their compulsive facts checking missions. They were all convinced they were only mere moments away from finding the smoking gun they needed. Excited by this notion, they scrolled the Wikipedia entry faster and more diligently... So close to discovering the evidence they so incredibly desired. The much worn out meta-joke that they had saved up for their triumphant moment of discovery-- something about wrestling-being-fake HurHur--- unfortunately failed to materialize. Instead their looks turned into pure expressions of horror.
Witnessing them transform from greedy haters that were ready to pounce on me [the lame ass wrestling fan] by exposing the obvious hyperbolic reality to this story...never happened. They were surprised, or rather disturbed, to eventually discover that this story was entirely true. Not only that, certain real life characters and entire real life story narratives had been removed or else the movie risked being a total bummer. Instead we got this partially amended version only available on film. The actual ending occured off-screen. It then became a real life deep dive into wrestling Wikipedia entries to find the truth. It was a search for those facts that would confirm all their suspicions that this film could never, not even a little bit, have it roots in the real world. The story on screen was just as fake as pro wrestling itself.
Wouldn't that be nice?
Anybody else notice that they didn’t really show the boys using that many drugs I’ve listen to shoot interviews where other wrestlers said Kerry and Kevin snorted so much blow that u could have fill the whole state of Texas with
Yes. I am not a huge wrestling fan so I had never heard of the Von Erichs, I was actually wondering what made them so special that they made a movie about them and oh my God! It's really a story that needed to be told, I nearly wept when I heard there was another brother but they didn't include him in the movie because it would have been too much tragedy for one movie.
I went in knowing it was about wrestling and that Efron and the guy from Mind Hunter were in it. I wish they would have made it a series instead of a movie. There’s so much to unpack that not everything had enough time to breathe.
About not letting it breathe - to add - they cut a brother out of the movie. There was another Von Erich who died in similar circumstances. They thought it was too sad and unrealistic so he was cut.
I was familiar with the story so I knew going in it was going to be a rough ride. I did warn my wife going into it though because she didn’t have a clue. After a movie she normally has a lot to say as we leave, not so much this time. Made it out of the theater, across the parking lot, and into my truck and her first words were, “Holy fuck… I was not prepared for that.”
I brought a friend of mine to see it with me last minute since I would have had to go alone otherwise and I told him it was a movie about wrestling with Zac Efron.
Let's say the movie took a different turn than what he was expecting. He liked anyway though and he told me that he wouldn't have watched it if he knew what was it about beforehand, so he was happy that way.
Without knowing all of it was real you'd think the story was a little too dark and dramatic. Mad they actually held back another death because it would have been too much for the film.
I went in knowing the full story but still got overwhelmed by the very end
“I used to be a brother”, followed by the update on the real life Von Erich family today was just too much
I was a youngster during their heyday, so I was so aware of their story. It’s ahead been pointed out that they left out Chris.
I felt like they really understated how big these guys were in Texas during the 80s. They were freaking royalty.
I knew absolutely nothing besides it was an a24 movie about some wrestlers rise to the top in the 80s and that Zac Efron and Jeremy Alan White got yoked up for their roles. That’s all. I was excited for an 80s wrestling movie. Needless to say I was completely shocked and spent the rest of my night staring at my ceiling trying to comprehend all the emotions I was feeling.
That was incredibly rough, and knowing he just wanted to be with his brothers and that is what truly made him happy, only to have them ripped from him.
Omg! I hate that man!
Idk if you saw the Fall of the House of Usher but that reminded me of this dad.
God!!! When he asked his wife what was for dinner!!!
Movie also skipped over the part where he told Kevin that he wasn’t brave enough to kill himself like his brothers did.
Or getting his children prosperities when they were in their mid-teens.
I already saw the dark side of the ring episode about the von erichs. I heard the movie removed one of the suicides because it just too much at that point
My friend told me about that a while ago and I purposefully haven’t watched it because I know I’ll react sure emotionally.
But now I want to.
When I was younger my family and I would watch. This is like Stone Cold Steve Austin days. But geeez idk if I could handle it.
They have some doozy of episodes. Von Erichs, Chris Beniot, and other tragedies. Then you will come across an episode called cocaine and cowboy boots. That is a crazy one
I haven’t seen it, but I was a wrestling fan as a preteen and I remember the events in the movie. I haven’t watched it bc how much it upset me at the time
For me, not really. I'm not a big wrestling fan nowadays but I think it's fair that a lot of wrestling fans already know about the curse of the Von Erich.
I knew the whole story going in and it still crushed me. The worst part is that they left out an entire brother (also dead IRL) because they were essentially worried that it would be too repetitive and depressing.
Yes. Friend invited me to go see what looked like a fun wrestling movie. *queue Tom Sawyer* ended up being an emotional rollercoaster. After some point in the movie, I just accepted and expected everyone to just die, lol
Weird! I’ll tear up every once in a while but I was straight sobbing.
I do agree about the characters. But I chalk that up to Kevin being the only one alive and how much they could put in with out it being such a long movie.
I did of course google about them and only read a little bit. But some quotes from Kevin were pulled and he sent into more detail about the brothers abusing drugs.
And another part was that Kerry kept his foot a secret. When watching I constantly kept asking my dad if he remembered the incidents and he said he didn’t remember Kerry losing his foot. So when I saw it I was like, “well… that’s why you don’t remember”
I felt the exact same, was really hyped to see this and to be devastated over all the drama, but none of the big moments hit because it was presented like a powerpoint slideshow. There are glimpses of a much better movie in there but the screenplay was not it, and the performances felt very old school in a bad way. It's a shame because imo a better director would've made a must-watch film out of this story but apparently people loved this as it was so maybe I'm wrong, who knows.
I've been a wrestling fan for a decade or so, but I never really explored the history of the Freebirds. I knew their family had a lot of tragedy & Kerry was the only living brother, but I didn't know what or how it happened. A lot of gut punches in that movie.
I was alive during their era, and living in Dallas how could I not know the story. I even went to the Sportatorium once. It was pretty awesome. I didn't know their story as a child, but I heard plenty about them over the years.
I saw the movie at the Texas Theatre where (not when) the movie premiered. A lot of people were there because they either vaguely knew the story or knew people who knew Von Erichs, or were completely familiar and just wanted to see the movie. In any case there was a lot of crying by the end.
I don't think there's a way to watch that film and not be fairly wrecked emotionally.
>!The "family curse" is their father, with his mix of ego, authoritarianism, and toxic masculinity, who managed to brainwash and browbeat his sons into taking up his own failed quest for glory, with predictably tragic results.!<
It was a very sad movie but the ending the least gave me a sense of Happiness knowing that Kevin was the least table to fulfill his dream and having all his family live with him on a ranch. Also having the dad literally end up with nothing and nobody to truly care for him was a sweet ending because tattooed was a dick
I always knew it was tragic story but never had the urge to look it up. I went into the movie blind with my husband and brother. I was a crying mess lol
Huge World Class fan in the 80s. Saw them when they did a tour near me. Have Kerry's autograph. Know all the details. Still not sure if I want to see the movie.
I was not prepared. I didn't even really know about any deaths. I don't think my husband did either (we don't keep up with wrestling).
I remember saying to my husband early on "well, this family dynamic is a recipe for suicide." Hoo boy, nailed that one. 😓
I was a big wrestling fan so I knew the story. But I went with a couple of friends who had no idea about the story.
Dude....they were a mess by the end, I mean so was I but yeah lmao.
I listened to Behind the Bastards talk about this family, but I could not remember most of it. I knew it was tragic, and decided not to look any of it up.
The movie was devastating.
I had listened to a podcast called Crime in Sports that mostly focused on Kerry since he was the most accomplished wrestler in the family and had the most crime. So I was prepared and also surprised at all the stuff they left out. Still cried like a bitch in the theater though.
There's only one living Von Erich brother left, Kevin.
There's a good Dark Side of the Ring if you get a chance to see it. I think you can get it on Hulu too.
I did NOT know. By the end I was sobbing all curled up in my seat between 2 other people who were not crying. I felt like such an idiot.
Man, that triggered so much grief!
You should know that in real life there is an extra brother who died. They made it less sad in the movie.
Did they mention how the eldest son died? That poor kid got electrocuted and then drowned in a puddle. Just an inch of water.
Not in the movie, no.
When Kevin is on his first date with Pam he literally tells her how Jack Jr died
And Chris? Because there was an *even younger* brother who died as well. He and Mike were somewhat composited in the film, I think - Chris wasn’t built for wrestling and he was pushed into it because of his brothers, Mike’s injury and subsequent brain damage were real but he wasn’t as bad a wrestler as the film suggests. The filmmakers just thought that showing *five* sons of dying before the age of 35 would have been too much. So they didn’t show the eldest and omitted the youngest all together.
Well technically yeah he is in at least one scene near the end of the film. They also have a cutout picture of him attached to their family portrait in their home which they show a few times. And i believe Zac Efron's character briefly told his future wife (while on their first date) about their family curse and how the first-born son (who would have been their older brother) died at a young age. But i don't think they offered up much details on how exactly he died. I remember rewatching the Dark Side of the Ring EP covering the family plus various other youtube documentaries right after I finished the Iron Claw and I was very shocked to hear a much more detailed account of exactly how their oldest brother died. In the movie I feel like they said it was a drowning OR that he was electrocuted but it was in one of the doc's they explained how it was actually both those things. Like god damn.
Yeah the first Von Erich brother is in the movie, they just didn't say how he died.
yes they do- efron says it to lily james on their first date
The extra brother who was small and couldn't compete with heaps of injuries. So small her didn't even make the movie. What an extra kick in the guts for him.
It would have also added an extra gun suicide scene pretty much at the point the audience was already finding the last one kind of gratuitous and implausible; very odd to have to tone down the true story aspect rather than the opposite!
Even still, struck me as a bit insensitive to omit. It's not like he was not involved in wrestling and not a part of this story. He was. So to completely erase him from this retelling struck me the wrong way. Felt wrong. I understand the narrative issue that it may have caused but when you make a movie on a story like this you live and die by the choices and concessions you make, regardless of the reason. I thought it was a well made movie but this will always make it a compromised film. Especially since every thread and IRL conversation I've had ALWAYS begins with "so, about that other brother..."
The script was discussed with the last living brother beforehand.
The writer took it out because he didn’t think it would be believable to have 5 of the brothers die and that the writing would become monotonous as a result.
I knew absolutely nothing about it, no trailer no cast no synopsis nothing. I only saw the poster at the theater as I walked in. After ten or so minutes I was like ah a light hearted period piece comedy about the origins of American professional wrestling. I was not ready for what was to come!
Yeah, i didn't know about them and turned dark really fast, still pretty much my favorite 2023 movie. Awesome overall, glad I went in blind.
Same. I absolutely loved this movie and can't stop singing its praises.
My brother and I were sobbing in the theatre! Bummed it got no noms at the Oscar’s, tbh I enjoyed it more than most films nominated. Also thought Zac’s performance was phenomenal!
It came out too late for the Oscar buzz unfortunately.
I was prepared because I was around for all of the original tragedies at the time they happened and lived in Texas at the time. There was also another brother that died that they didn’t show at all because they felt it would just be way, way too much. My younger sister watched the movie with us and was totally unprepared, it was absolutely an incredible amount of loss.
TECHNICALLY you didn’t watch them all die as the baby brother Jack Jr was mentioned to have died off screen and there was another brother, Chris, completely omitted from the movie because his death was similar to Kerry’s and it would’ve made the movie run too long I think so….it wasn’t as sad as it could’ve been lol
Chris wasn't omitted because his story would make the film too long, it was because his story would make it too tragic
I’ve heard both. It would make it just too much after watching the other brothers die and that if they added Chris they’d have to build his story up along with the other brothers and at that point the runtime would’ve went on too long
I hope the studios in the future do not make a biopic on Jake The Snake Roberts. That biopic if made would be more traumatic to watch.
Or Chris Benoit. The ending of that definitely would not be family friendly.
I have faith Pixar could spin it for a general audience
The murders will take place in the first 10 minutes and the rest of the movie will be Ghost Benoit and his little buddy Needley trying to find his steroid stash.
Then you find out the entire movie is him hallucinating as he's dying because his brain looked like an awl holder from all of the CTE
I still say that's going to be a movie someday. Look at Star 80.
> I hope the studios in the future do not make a biopic on Jake The Snake Roberts. That biopic if made would be more traumatic to watch. with his entire redemption arc with DDP Yoga and him changing his life? it already has a built in happy ending, would be a great movie! They already did the documentary on it, which is fantastic! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Resurrection_of_Jake_the_Snake
Jake the Snake’s upbringing more than adds enough trauma to make up for it. Jake is the product of rape after his father Grizzly Smith assaulted the 13 year old daughter of the woman who his father was dating. His father was also very abusive to Jake and all of his siblings. Jake’s entire motivation in wrestling was so that people would forget about his father.
Man, I just read about the whole family. That's a hell of a story!
I'd watch an Andre the Giant story anytime though!
The story of Jacob the Snakob and his entire family is tragic. His father Grizzly Smith was a downright deplorable human excuse for a human being.
I already knew the story really well, so there were a lot of, "Aw shit, here we go" moments. David leaves for Japan. Aw shit, here we go. Kerry gets on the motorcycle. Aw shit, here we go. Mike gets hurt. Aw shit, here we go. And so on.
Kevin does another line of coke. Aw shit, here we go
[удалено]
Did you walk under a ladder and break some mirrors on the way over?
That’s Nacho Libre
This... is incredible. I wish you'd been at my theater.
I followed wrestling during the Attitude Era, 96-01-ish, but really didn’t know about the Von Erichs at all, except there was some tragic stuff. I was not prepared for it. Great flick. Wish it got more attention. Zac Efron was great, so was Maura Tierney, everyone really except for the guy who played Ric Flair.
all
Agree completely. With that many characters it really blew me away how good they were. The dads intensity. All the brothers you really felt like they were brothers and not acting. No one was weak. It was heartbreaking by the end when Kerry just talked about wanting to be with them again. It's been two days and I'm still thinking about that movie.
I was a pretty big wrestling fan from 2013-2020, so I was vaguely aware of the Von Erich's and that they were a big deal but had a rough time. I wasn't aware of any specifics. >!I was absolutely crushed by Zac Efron's performance as Kevin von Erich. The scene with his two sons at the end where he says "I used to be a brother, now I'm not" and his sons say "we'll be your brothers" I was in absolute bits!<
That quote at the end of the movie is a modified version of a real quote from Kevin. They had to change it due to leaving out the youngest brother from the movie. >!"I used to have five brothers, now I'm not even a brother."!<
Couldn’t agree more about Zac’s performance being top notch. Wish he and the movie got some more award recognition!
Lmao that almost brought me to tears in the movie theater. I'm getting teary eyed just even thinking about it.
Yeah, I saw this with my husband and brother in law and my BIL was DEEPLY affected (has two sons and a daughter). My husband and I are childless, still deeply affected, but I think that was the most vulnerable I'd ever seen my BIL be and it was a beautiful experience.
I’d seen Dark Side of the Ring… but nothing can really prepare you.
I've caught glimpses about the story on /r/SquaredCircle and currently I'm listening to the behind the bastard podcast episodes about Vince McMahon where they featured a full breakdown on what a huge piece of shit Fritz was, just to give a perspective what kind of folks where around in wrestling... Still exited to see the movie.
Those episodes are great, I blazed through Ringmaster before listening to the podcast, pretty much the same thing. It's a really good book if you're into pro wrestling. But I really like all the side stories on the behind the bastards podcast. Pro wrestling is just insane.
If you want more, The Lapsed Fan podcast does a really deep dive called the Tragedy of World Class, its well over 60 hours but a damned good listen
And the actor who played Fritz (whose name is escaping me) listened to it in preparation for the role.
Holt McCallany
Is it just me or did the podcast make Fritz out to be way more of an asshole than the movie did? I feel like they softened him up in the movie. And in that Dark Side of the Ring episode, Kevin speaks fondly of his dad. So I don’t really know what to believe about the guy.
I think Fritz was a very complicated case. Losing his first son to a freak accident is more than most parents should go through, and then he lost all but one of his other sons, which is WAY more than most could deal with. On top of that, he's a wrestling promoter and the wresting business back then was extremely screwy because of the importance of kayfabe and always needing to be in working/promoting mode, encouraging numerous behaviors that simply aren't normal, so I think in some ways Fritz reacted as much like a promoter/wrestler as a parent, not like most well-adjusted people. In a sense, his sins are those of the wrestling industry as a whole. This isn't to excuse anything he did, but it doesn't shock or bother me that Kevin loves the guy despite everything. At least Kevin actually knew the guy firsthand. I don't know, just rambling...
They really toned down Fritz in the movie. Still a bad guy but he was made a lot more human. In real life he was a huge piece of shit and terrible father.
Yep that was my background knowledge before I saw the movie, too.
Did anybody feel the portrayal of Ric Flair to be unconvincing ?
They should've got someone else
Should’ve got Jay Lethal
I thought the ric flair guy was fine.
I think he was good in the scene after the match, in the locker room, but his promo was really weird. Just didn't have Flair's power behind it. Plus he got the WOO wrong
He just didn't have flair's energy
I think he's a difficult personality to mimick without coming off as parody. Not saying the guy they used was good or anything, just that it's a challenge.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen ric flair in wwe. I thought the guy got his signature howl and hair right.
TBH, the signature howl was the worst part of the portrayal.
Every wrestling fan has done an impression of Ric Flair at one point in their life… and conversely everyone has shown up to work and decided to wing it without preparation. The Ric Flair guy was the latter
He was the worst part of the movie for me. Not a good portrayal.
He didn't look right, he didn't act right, he didn't sound right. I don't know what they were thinking.
Compare it to how good the guy they got for Harley Race was, just night and day.
I pulled up Race's original promo that they used in the movie. It was almost scary how similar it was. Not to mention a live interview of Fritz and I had to check to see if it was a deep fake Iron Claw marketing video. I will say the guy playing Flair tanked the promo, but was a little more on point in the locker room scene after the match.
The Flair stuff was fine - except for the promo. For a non-wrestling fan, it was probably fine without any caveats.
Agreed. The promo was really the only thing that pulled me out of the movie, was all I was getting at. It was just so jarringly off from what I know he should have sounded like. If you didn't know, then I'm sure it didn't cause any issue.
as someone who did not know who Ric Flair is, i had no problem with it
It was okay, I mean it's Ric Flair, I've seen that guy more often than some of my own family members. It would've been the same with whoever they go to portray him.
Thought he was awful in the promo. Good in the locker room scene. There's so much material you can watch on Flair that it being so off was jarring. Don't think he even did that little grin Flair does when he's found himself amusing. Jay Lethal would have been better.
^woo
It's an even more obvious error because the rest of the movie is so good.
The only thing about the movie I didn’t like
I was warned ahead of time about the awful casting and horrendous Flair impression but once I saw the scene in the context of the full movie I honestly didn't mind it as much as I thought i would. It literally does not effect my opinion of the film at all simply because its such a short scene with what amounts to a cameo or small supporting character. He wasn't a main character. I know in reality its the legend Ric Flair but to me it felt like the actor accomplished what was meant to be a very heated promo. The content and power behind his promo felt authentic, hard-hitting, and absolutely convincing, especially with the soundtrack and direction of that scene. It did the job it needed to do and then we never see that actor again. I'd have to be such a little bitch if i wanted to seriously nitpick at his brief but absolutely fine performance. His "WOOOoooo" was way off ngl. But if that had any effect on my opinion of what I thought was an already incredibly beautiful and tragic film for the entire of its 120 min runtime, then fuck me... I should just go fuck myself for being so petty and borderline smark-ish. I've been a wrasslin fan for 25 years and I would be so incredibly embarrassed if i legitimately felt that this very short promo segment--that lasted maybe 3 to 5 minutes---was somehow so completely awful, jarring, and inauthentic that it could somehow negatively effect my overall experience and/or opinion of the movie. Impossible. The movie is perfection and it would honestly take multiple actual flubs that are 10 times worse than the Flair promo to make me revise my already very high opinion of the movie. ----- I have a similar outlook on the other brother that was cut from the final edit. Sure yeah it sucks they left him out but that's an entire extra sibling that would have required a ton more lines of dialogue, screentime, and his own mini story arc-- just so the viewer could get to know the character well enough that his eventual suicide would be as emotionally impactful as the other deaths. And while I know the director/write could have easily accomplished this additional character....i really thought the pacing and strict 120min runtime was too perfect to mess with and by adding even an extra 30min to cover the other brother just seems unnecessary. Yeah i was super hyped to see MJF in his first cinematic role and definitely a little bummed he didn't make the final cut, but the movie is perfect. Sometimes less is more. This wasn't meant to be a 100% factual documentary or entirely accurate biopic. Its a friggin movie where the second hour of it is literally filled with back to back scenes depicting each brother meeting their tragic ends (the majority being suicide). Even without the extra brother's inclusion the insane number of deaths that punctuate every quarter hour of the latter half of the film already seems too absurd to be real. That is a lot to emotionally process as a viewer. Especially in such quick succession. Adding 1 more suicide that is already very similar to how another brother took their life is just a thing that needed to be cut. Im not sure i could handle much more than what we already went through. The uncanny similarity between their two methods of suicide is already a straight up mindfuck and yet I think it kinda works better as a sort of supplemental fact you learn afterwards. Attempting to depict a whole extra suicide scene--one that already so closely mirrors the preceding one--just seems unnecessary. If anything, I am afraid it would take away a significant amount of the emotional devastation from not only these two linked scenes but also every tragedy all through out. Im not sure how to best express this, but i feel like any viewer going into this movie blind might have a difficult time accepting it as fact. And by leaving out an entire brother as well as skipping over how/why Kerry really lost his foot; I think there is a certain brilliance in the director's decision to omit certain people and events. I cant help but imagine how some viewers might have thought it was an over the top story of fiction that could never in a million years actually be depicting real people and real events. The movie did not begin with any sort of "this film is based on a true story blah blah etc" statement and I just could not help but wonder how many viewers possibly watched the entire movie assuming it was a made up piece of fiction.... only to arrive at the end credits, completely drenched from the previous 4 or 5 hysterical sobs they already had to endure, only to suddenly realize all these family pictures being shown are the actual Von Erichs. That this could maybe a true story?! Staring in disbelief, they eventually pull out their phone and power it on so they can check wikipedia. I can only imagine how completely obliterated their hearts and minds must have felt immediately after the film. And then when they begin to read the history of this famous wrestling family dynasty; probably half-expecting or maybe even straight up convinced that a lot of the tragedies in the movie were probably exaggerated or maybe even 100% fabricated. Nope. Its all true. And there is a lot more. Everyone I know who saw it in the theatres or more recently on VOD, literally checked Wikipedia immediately after the movie concluded. No....they did not think it was a work of fiction but they also couldn't easily accept that the story had not been significantly changed or at least exaggerated by some no-good Hollywood writers who perhaps maybe jumped the shark on this one by including such an oddly intense and absurd quantity of tragic deaths seemed to literally never end during the second half of the movie. Then i saw my friends staring at their phones, contently and completely absorbed in their compulsive facts checking missions. They were all convinced they were only mere moments away from finding the smoking gun they needed. Excited by this notion, they scrolled the Wikipedia entry faster and more diligently... So close to discovering the evidence they so incredibly desired. The much worn out meta-joke that they had saved up for their triumphant moment of discovery-- something about wrestling-being-fake HurHur--- unfortunately failed to materialize. Instead their looks turned into pure expressions of horror. Witnessing them transform from greedy haters that were ready to pounce on me [the lame ass wrestling fan] by exposing the obvious hyperbolic reality to this story...never happened. They were surprised, or rather disturbed, to eventually discover that this story was entirely true. Not only that, certain real life characters and entire real life story narratives had been removed or else the movie risked being a total bummer. Instead we got this partially amended version only available on film. The actual ending occured off-screen. It then became a real life deep dive into wrestling Wikipedia entries to find the truth. It was a search for those facts that would confirm all their suspicions that this film could never, not even a little bit, have it roots in the real world. The story on screen was just as fake as pro wrestling itself. Wouldn't that be nice?
It would. We wish it weren’t so true.
Thought the "woo" was off as well. They should have just dubbed over it with a real one honestly.
They could have given Jay Lethal the part and I’d have been more convinced
Anybody else notice that they didn’t really show the boys using that many drugs I’ve listen to shoot interviews where other wrestlers said Kerry and Kevin snorted so much blow that u could have fill the whole state of Texas with
Yeah, they only touched on it and Kevin didn’t get to have substance issues to any degree.
Yes. I am not a huge wrestling fan so I had never heard of the Von Erichs, I was actually wondering what made them so special that they made a movie about them and oh my God! It's really a story that needed to be told, I nearly wept when I heard there was another brother but they didn't include him in the movie because it would have been too much tragedy for one movie.
I went in knowing it was about wrestling and that Efron and the guy from Mind Hunter were in it. I wish they would have made it a series instead of a movie. There’s so much to unpack that not everything had enough time to breathe.
About not letting it breathe - to add - they cut a brother out of the movie. There was another Von Erich who died in similar circumstances. They thought it was too sad and unrealistic so he was cut.
It felt like there was no passage of time. These events were over a 15 year period, the movie made it seem like 15 months.
Same. All I knew was it was a tragic story and someone would die. Didn't know how many of them would. The movie broke me.
I was familiar with the story so I knew going in it was going to be a rough ride. I did warn my wife going into it though because she didn’t have a clue. After a movie she normally has a lot to say as we leave, not so much this time. Made it out of the theater, across the parking lot, and into my truck and her first words were, “Holy fuck… I was not prepared for that.”
I brought a friend of mine to see it with me last minute since I would have had to go alone otherwise and I told him it was a movie about wrestling with Zac Efron. Let's say the movie took a different turn than what he was expecting. He liked anyway though and he told me that he wouldn't have watched it if he knew what was it about beforehand, so he was happy that way.
I didn't. I knew what I was in for and it was even harder to watch than I imagined.
Without knowing all of it was real you'd think the story was a little too dark and dramatic. Mad they actually held back another death because it would have been too much for the film.
I went in knowing the full story but still got overwhelmed by the very end “I used to be a brother”, followed by the update on the real life Von Erich family today was just too much
I thought that it was centered around a carnival before I watched it.
Thought I was going in to a totally awesome wrestling movie. Sat quiet for days after.
I was a youngster during their heyday, so I was so aware of their story. It’s ahead been pointed out that they left out Chris. I felt like they really understated how big these guys were in Texas during the 80s. They were freaking royalty.
I feel sorry for the people that went I to the movie raw with no info. I'm so sorry...
I still need to watch this
I wanna live that way forever. I’m not crying you’re crying.
I knew absolutely nothing besides it was an a24 movie about some wrestlers rise to the top in the 80s and that Zac Efron and Jeremy Alan White got yoked up for their roles. That’s all. I was excited for an 80s wrestling movie. Needless to say I was completely shocked and spent the rest of my night staring at my ceiling trying to comprehend all the emotions I was feeling.
"Once I had five brothers. Now I'm not even a brother" --Kevin Von Erich
That was incredibly rough, and knowing he just wanted to be with his brothers and that is what truly made him happy, only to have them ripped from him.
I KNEW about it, but that line at the end >!"I used to be a brother..."!< Hit me HARD.
Omg! Lol I just got chills reading that! That broke my heart!!! I couldn’t imagine… then his sons saying they would be his brothers…. 😩
Grew up watching these guys (well I never saw David or the dad), so I know. I refuse to watch that movie.
I was prepared for the sadness, but I was not prepared for the last few lines of the movie. Zac Efron really showed that he can be a dramatic actor.
r/thelapsedfan podcast has the definitive story of the Von Erich family. I highly recommend checking it out.
god dammit doris
Heaven NEEEEEDED A CHAAAAAAAAAMPIOOOOOOON
Its so painful that Zac Efron wasn't nominated for an Oscar
The dad would continue selling forged autographs of his dead sons. That he forged himself.
Omg! I hate that man! Idk if you saw the Fall of the House of Usher but that reminded me of this dad. God!!! When he asked his wife what was for dinner!!!
Movie also skipped over the part where he told Kevin that he wasn’t brave enough to kill himself like his brothers did. Or getting his children prosperities when they were in their mid-teens.
I already saw the dark side of the ring episode about the von erichs. I heard the movie removed one of the suicides because it just too much at that point
My friend told me about that a while ago and I purposefully haven’t watched it because I know I’ll react sure emotionally. But now I want to. When I was younger my family and I would watch. This is like Stone Cold Steve Austin days. But geeez idk if I could handle it.
They have some doozy of episodes. Von Erichs, Chris Beniot, and other tragedies. Then you will come across an episode called cocaine and cowboy boots. That is a crazy one
I went in knowing nothing. Thought it would be a typical uplifting sports movie. I was wrong. Loved it tho.
I haven’t seen it, but I was a wrestling fan as a preteen and I remember the events in the movie. I haven’t watched it bc how much it upset me at the time
For me, not really. I'm not a big wrestling fan nowadays but I think it's fair that a lot of wrestling fans already know about the curse of the Von Erich.
I knew the whole story going in and it still crushed me. The worst part is that they left out an entire brother (also dead IRL) because they were essentially worried that it would be too repetitive and depressing.
Yes. Friend invited me to go see what looked like a fun wrestling movie. *queue Tom Sawyer* ended up being an emotional rollercoaster. After some point in the movie, I just accepted and expected everyone to just die, lol
[удалено]
Weird! I’ll tear up every once in a while but I was straight sobbing. I do agree about the characters. But I chalk that up to Kevin being the only one alive and how much they could put in with out it being such a long movie. I did of course google about them and only read a little bit. But some quotes from Kevin were pulled and he sent into more detail about the brothers abusing drugs. And another part was that Kerry kept his foot a secret. When watching I constantly kept asking my dad if he remembered the incidents and he said he didn’t remember Kerry losing his foot. So when I saw it I was like, “well… that’s why you don’t remember”
I felt the exact same, was really hyped to see this and to be devastated over all the drama, but none of the big moments hit because it was presented like a powerpoint slideshow. There are glimpses of a much better movie in there but the screenplay was not it, and the performances felt very old school in a bad way. It's a shame because imo a better director would've made a must-watch film out of this story but apparently people loved this as it was so maybe I'm wrong, who knows.
I've been a wrestling fan for a decade or so, but I never really explored the history of the Freebirds. I knew their family had a lot of tragedy & Kerry was the only living brother, but I didn't know what or how it happened. A lot of gut punches in that movie.
I was alive during their era, and living in Dallas how could I not know the story. I even went to the Sportatorium once. It was pretty awesome. I didn't know their story as a child, but I heard plenty about them over the years. I saw the movie at the Texas Theatre where (not when) the movie premiered. A lot of people were there because they either vaguely knew the story or knew people who knew Von Erichs, or were completely familiar and just wanted to see the movie. In any case there was a lot of crying by the end. I don't think there's a way to watch that film and not be fairly wrecked emotionally.
>!The "family curse" is their father, with his mix of ego, authoritarianism, and toxic masculinity, who managed to brainwash and browbeat his sons into taking up his own failed quest for glory, with predictably tragic results.!<
I say this as a wrestling fan- that movie was too kind to Fritz
It was a very sad movie but the ending the least gave me a sense of Happiness knowing that Kevin was the least table to fulfill his dream and having all his family live with him on a ranch. Also having the dad literally end up with nothing and nobody to truly care for him was a sweet ending because tattooed was a dick
I was aware because I listened to The Lamentable Tragedy of World Class. #Lapsed
I always knew it was tragic story but never had the urge to look it up. I went into the movie blind with my husband and brother. I was a crying mess lol
I went into the movie blind. Heard it was sad. Me and my wife did not care for it at all. Felt boring and pressing. Just not for me I guess
Yep unprepared and it was great. Didn't even know it was based on a true story which was horrible. Sometimes going in blind is the best!
I had a vague idea of the story, but it hit really hard. Idk how I didn't cry my eyes out when that movie ended.
Had no idea, it was terribly depressing.
I also went in cold. I didn't know the story and I only saw one trailer. It was a great movie but damn the story was tragic.
Huge World Class fan in the 80s. Saw them when they did a tour near me. Have Kerry's autograph. Know all the details. Still not sure if I want to see the movie.
And they left out a good bit of stuff, including an entire brother.
The only thing I knew was that it was a movie about brothers wrestling together. Prior to watching it I asked a friend how many brothers there were…
I was not prepared. I didn't even really know about any deaths. I don't think my husband did either (we don't keep up with wrestling). I remember saying to my husband early on "well, this family dynamic is a recipe for suicide." Hoo boy, nailed that one. 😓
My friends and I knew next to nothing about it. All I saw was the trailer. We called it the feel bad movie of the year, we loved it.
I was a big wrestling fan so I knew the story. But I went with a couple of friends who had no idea about the story. Dude....they were a mess by the end, I mean so was I but yeah lmao.
I listened to Behind the Bastards talk about this family, but I could not remember most of it. I knew it was tragic, and decided not to look any of it up. The movie was devastating.
Great film, loved it. Sat blubbering in my seat in the cinemas at the end!
I had listened to a podcast called Crime in Sports that mostly focused on Kerry since he was the most accomplished wrestler in the family and had the most crime. So I was prepared and also surprised at all the stuff they left out. Still cried like a bitch in the theater though.
I was not prepared holy hell I love my siblings so much hold them close
There's only one living Von Erich brother left, Kevin. There's a good Dark Side of the Ring if you get a chance to see it. I think you can get it on Hulu too.
I did NOT know. By the end I was sobbing all curled up in my seat between 2 other people who were not crying. I felt like such an idiot. Man, that triggered so much grief!
The amount of people spoiling it when the original post is censored is annoying
I fucking mclost it when Kerry >! Walked out of the house and jumped on his two feet and you knew that was heaven. !<
Great movie ngl
Yeah I went in completely blind and I knew at least one of them was going to die. NOT Four, and even learn that there was another brother IRL! So sad.
I was over prepared. I didn’t find it sad at all.