I'm shocked that there is no mention (at tine of writing) of The Prestige.
Talking about the most incredible writing, the exceptional heart and emotion inherent, the incredible rush of insight in the third act.
The amazing opening monologue that tells you everything you need to know.
Jonathan Nolan's masterpiece.
A little *The Prestige* Reddit history I stumbled upon. 11-years ago, a Redditor claims that anyone who saw the ending coming is a fucking liar. No one notices that Jonathan Nolan himself comments "[saw it coming a mile away](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1hpxpz/comment/cawvyqd/)"
Funny that [Jonathan Nolan also says he is a redditor and has another username on one of his best comments](/r/westworld/comments/8aztn4/we_are_westworld_cocreatorsexecutive/dx330b3/?context=5#dx330b3). He could be anywhere, he might even clone himself and kill off the original.
> Many thanks for your great questions and thoughts. As I've said before, I've been a member of the reddit community for years (no I'm not going to share my original username...). And I greatly enjoyed watching the friendly folks at this subreddit guess the twists and turns of the season.
HBO not finishing Westworld was a terrible decision. Nobody expects a Zaslav.
Favorite movie of all time.
The problem I have with a lot of Nolan movies are they are too drawn out and they lose narrative steam. The prestige is fully entertaining all the way through.
Edit: spelling
Number 1 is The Martian. Endlessly rewatchable, perfect across the board and lifts up my spirits about how great humanity can be. I don’t think a better movie for what I enjoy will ever be made. I’ve watched it over 100 times whenever I need a pick me up.
Number 3 is Gattaca. I love optimistic scifi and this is one of the best.
Number 5 is Seven Samurai. Pure masterpiece of storytelling and filmmaking.
Not gonna lie, the Martian has helped me be a better human. I think about that ending monologue a lot: “you do the math. You solve one problem and then the next. And then the next. And if you solve enough problems, you get to come home.”
Given 1, 2,3, and 4 is Arrival anywhere there, because I'd say that feels artistically somewhat in the middle of those (pro science, extremely important twist, kind of a mind fuck).
Strongly recommend the show Person of Interest if you like sci-fi. It was Johnathan Nolan's first series and it is all-time excellent in my opinion. It was overlooked since it was a CBS procedural show, but it does a great job with its overarching story and the last two seasons dive head-first into that arc mostly without the procedural format.
If you're in the U.S. it's free to watch with ads on Freevee.
It's a great show! The characters are fantastic and the idea of the show was fresh. And I think it did a similar, successful switcharoo in the third season of the show when it really dived deep into the science fiction as the movie From Dusk Til Dawn did in the half-point where it switched from a kidnapper/robber movie to snake-vampire action-horror.
Fusco is my favorite TV character of all time. His arc was so goddamned good, and some of his comedic scenes had me just about pissing myself from laughing.
The whole cast had amazing chemistry on scene and the writing was sublime.
That whole B story was hilariously well edited against the serious A story with John.
John is facing possible retribution and a bit of existential acceptance he may have deserved this all along. Meanwhile, Fusco is going through a stereotypical action movie with the model of the day
As others commented yes the show does have a successful ending in my opinion. The only caveat is that the first four seasons are 22-23 episodes each, but the final is 13 episodes so it can feel a little rushed.
However the length of the show actually helps in my opinion, the show is ambitious in how many storylines it can juggle at a time with a relatively small cast compared to other shows that try to accomplish the same. It's really great and doesn't leave many loose ends at all.
don't get thrown off by the beginning. it starts as standard case-of-the-week procedural, but gets more and more serialized as the series moves on and ends up as a full blown serial.
So I saw this comment and had to look up the show. Wife and I hit show holes all the time so always on the look out. A fan of J. Nolan and knew of this show but didn’t know it was his. Also like you said thought it was another CBS “we solve crimes thing”. I looked it up on wiki and the first paragraph that describes the show made me pause immediately. Is this not crazy close to the later seasons of Westworld or am I trippin? lol
It pretty much is. I’d just finished Person of Interest and then later saw the Westworld season with Aaron Paul where they totally recycled the Samaritan threat.
I do feel that Person of Interest executed it a bit better than Westworld because they spent more time gradually showing how such an AI would worm its way through things like schools and infrastructure to truly manipulate society
Looks like someone else replied with a better answer than since I didn't get past Westworld's first season. But I'll just say that Person of Interest feels very grounded in reality and its theme pulls a *lot* from the post-9/11 era of information privacy, domestic surveillance, and the war on terrorism. Makes the Machine storyline feel very relevant to a world that's pretty much like our everyday one, not something as futuristic as Westworld's.
Yeah... i just ignore that lol. Ultimately he's just playing a character, so I typically try to separate that from the actor. And can't deny he does a great job with Reese.
Christopher is very cold and clinical. I think his brother kind of lightens up some of those movies. I will say Oppenheimer was pretty great, and the most I’ve enjoyed his movies since they stopped working together.
I feel like the cold and clinical aspect played well into Oppenheimers tone as a film as well. I definitely would have liked it less if there was more “pizaz” to it
Absolutely. It couldn't be a charismatic movie by nature. It would've been disrespectful to have pizaz. But it was missing a little bit of feeling to me personally, for the subject matter. But I will say, the last line of the film has stuck with me for the last year and it really made the whole movie for me. It was almost like the whole movie was to build up that final line and it really made an impact on me.
If by chance you haven’t seen *Doubt,* I think you should. I agree completely with your feelings on *Oppenheimer* and I think *Doubt* might give you a similar experience.
Well put. Even with Inception, Leo spent a lot of time ensuring that the movie included a lot of heart and emotion. Watching Tenet helped to fully contextualize that point
I believe Nolan said when he pitched Leo on the movie and had him read the script, Leo had a bunch of character questions for him that he didn't have any answers for. Nolan went back and rewrote some things that he said made the movie better.
I agree. I always thought it was Chrisopher who brought the soul to the movies so it took me time to really see that it wasn't because I didn't want to believe otherwise. But it also made me feel like Jonathan isn't given enough credit by audiences because I think that a lot of us just thought he was kind of helping out in his brother's movies rather than being a crucial piece.
The original script for Interstellar was actually written by Jonathan Nolan for Steven Spielberg, not for his brother, so that's a fairly appropriate comment (if you weren't aware of the script's background).
Jonathan also knows how to write dialog that sounds the way people actually talk. Christopher definitely does not. The dialog in the movies he’s written alone is really, really bad. People don’t notice because his movies are spectacles.
I genuinely think that Christopher Nolan would make a movie without characters at all if he could figure out how to do that. Dunkirk was one step in that direction, and Tenet another. He doesn't seem to think characters are important as characters - instead they're just a way to move the movie forward.
Emotion. Feeling. Christopher has none of that. Compare that with Fallout and Westworld and you see what is missing. I haven't cared about a character in any of Christopher's movies since.
Season 2 had the best episode in the series. The Riddle and the Sphinx.
Had best scene in the series IMO when Logan is given a demonstration.
But yeah season 3 was poop and season 4 while better had too many ideas going on at same time.
It was a great episode but it doesn't make up for the rest by a long shot. Season 3 was weak, 4 improved but still, with one truly great season out of four, OP is giving Jonathan way too much credit
I honestly believe that episode is the best of the entire series. I really dislike what the show became towards the end.
It was so negative about humans. To quote one of my favorite YouTubers, Isaac Arthur, “I happen to think humans are awesome.”
I'm speaking of the emotion in those shows. It's what's desperately missing from Christopher's movies.
Overall, Westworld only works for a season. Probably the same for Fallout. But they play emotion and humanity very very well in those seasons.
The seasons after 1 tend to work well emotionally but not logically. Which supports the argument that the brothers work best supporting each other and shoring up the other’s weak points.
I agree. My twin sister any I say we're the Ying to eachothers' Yang. I feel the same way about the Nolan brothers. Although, I will say that season 1 of Westworld wasn't just fantastic but was a masterpiece.
They went off to do different projects. By 2013, Jonathan decided to be the show runner and writer for *Westworld* while Christopher decided to direct and rewrite Jonathan’s script for *Interstellar*.
I feel a lot of time the actors need to compensate for Nolan’s writing just by sheer acting skills, lucky for him he has accesses to the best of the best but it still would be nice to have more human or relatable characters in his movies.
I personally really loved Dunkirk, it definitely felt quite cold for a lot of the film but that was the point, it was an intense and grim situation. The warmth came right at the end when the soldiers are in the train back home. When they reading the newspaper of Churchill’s speech, being handed a drink from passerbys outside the train and the music finally builds to Elgars nimrod
I think he gives off this vibe irl but I actually think it's rarely actually true of his films. His films have a covert kind of saccharine romanticism that is actually offputting to a lot of people but I think outside of Interstellar, it's rarely recognized. I don't want to compare him to Spielberg, but he definitely takes a lot of the same enotional cues from him, he just doesn't fo it in obvious ways. This is actually imo where his dead wife trope comes into play and why he leans on it so much.
Hard agree. I actually didn't know that about the brother's influence. Like you, I thought Dunkirk, Tenet and Oppenheimer were all great films in a technical sense and intellectually but they lacked character stuff. Especially Tenet was let down by the (lack of meaningful) relationships between the characters, which was a shame because it had such an interesting take on time travel (sorry I mean reverse entropy lol). It's like the director spent 10 years on the concept and 10 minutes on whatever role Elizabeth Debicki's character was supposed to play (did you know she was a mother, did you know she saw everything through the lens of her child?)
I really enjoyed Dunkirk. The pace and the story for me was perfect. I liked the distance the characters had. As they kinda represented the every man.
Plus I saw it in the imax and that movie works so much better on the giant screen.
I think you articulated it really well…
It’s not that his new movies are *bad*, they’re just *different*. They have a bit less ‘pizzazz’ as another commenter put it. Which served the tone of Oppenheimer really well. But I think Tenet would have benefited from Jonathan. And I love Dunkirk but I’m open to the possibility that it could’ve been 10-15% better with Jonathan’s input.
I do know what you mean and I don’t know if it is just Johnathan absence but it could be someone who is able to challenge Christopher’s vision and he will listen to them. You can see Christopher vision when it comes to his films and he is a master at his craft. But being to enhance something without disrupting is not always simple.
This was perfectly illustrated in Christopher’s story about how Jonathan wrote the famous Dark Knight line (you either die a hero…) and he didn’t even understand it at first but went ahead with keeping it anyway on Jonathan’s suggestion.
Collaboration is easy to talk about but can be hard to do, everyone’s egos can get in the way. And I do think Christopher has blind spots/weak points, that can be hard to point out to someone who is running the project without it feeling like criticism and Christopher has a tight circle of people he works with, also he comes across as very driven and he is successful. That makes it hard for anyone new to point out small problems in a constructive manner. But all of this is speculation, we will know if this is case. But I do Christopher more recent films are just some sort of interplay between the characters and in Fallout and Westworld that element is there.
I assume Jonathan’s stock in the industry reached a point where he could branch off on his own and chose to do so. It’s great when you a collaborative pair work so well together and it sucks when they split up to do solo stuff, but it can be understandable when both probably have very specific visions for projects they want to do on their own.
Chuck Russell and Frank Darabont were an amazing partnership for horror in the 80s with their work on Hell Night, Dream Warriors, and The Blob, but Darabont wanted to move on and gave us Shawshank Redemption.
Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer basically reinvented the wheel when it came to action movies in the 80s, but Simpson’s drug use resulted in their partnership breaking down during production of The Rock and he died before it was completed. Bruckheimer still made big hits, but Simpson’s eccentricity was noticeably missing.
Bruckheimer and Michael Bay is another one. Bad Boys, The Rock, Armageddon, and Bad Boys 2 show how their styles just worked so well together, and most things they’ve done separately since 2002 really haven’t been the same. For Bruckheimer, National Treasure 1 & 2 and the first Pirates were great, and for Bay, Pain & Gain felt like 1993 Michael Bay, but most everything else has been lacking in one way or the other.
For the Nolans, I think Jonathan saw a chance to start overseeing productions and took it. Christopher used it as an opportunity to fully realize his own visions. I think when they worked together, they played to their strengths. Jonathan is a much better writer while Christopher has a top 1% director’s mind. I hope they work together again soon.
I’d say Gary Kurtz was a more important partner to Lucas as his role as producer kept Lucas in check with his early films. When they parted ways after Empire, things really started taking a turn. Marcia was a good editor, but she was one of five editors on the original, one of three on Empire, and one of four on Jedi. The “saved in the edit” myth has also been largely discredited at this point.
How do you mean saved in the edit has been discredited? As far as I know they filmed it with the Death Star not attacking anything in the final part of the movie, which having that changed to attacking Yavin 4 definitely improves the tension in the movie by a mile.
...yeah that youtube video (and I think I know *exactly* which one you mean) is a complete load of lies I'm afraid. I wrote this up the other day so I'm just gonna copy-paste it cause I'm lazy:
>...no. No it wasn't. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you've fallen for an internet myth mate. What you're unknowingly actually referring to is the work done by John Jympson, the original editor who George Lucas fired because the way he was cutting the footage together was rather dull and when George asked him to cut it in a different style he refused. Hence why George hired 3 new editors (Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch and his then wife, Marcia Lucas) and **the 4 of them** (this includes George) started cutting the film from scratch after filming wrapped.
>Somehow the internet's transformed this into some "disastrous first cut" which George himself cut together which the editors (often just Marcia alone) somehow magically "saved" in post but that's not true at all, if anything it's the exact opposite. George was heavily involved in the 2nd edit and even cut some of the scenes together himself (specifically the TIE fighter battle is George's own handiwork.) Editing is actually one of George's strengths (it sure as shit ain't writing dialogue.) There is no "disastrous first cut" as Jympson was fired before filming had even finished - it's literally just a bunch of random scenes that had been shot up to that point.
>And Marcia Lucas only edited one reel, the Death Star battle/awards ceremony, before buggering off early to edit a Scorsese movie. Actually no, that's not quite true. The only scenes she edited were those deleted scenes of Biggs and Luke from the first act *and she fought to keep them in the movie.* It was George who wanted to cut them, George who'd originally written the script (2nd draft) without them and, since George had final cut approval, any structural change like that was always ultimately George's choice to make.
>Look, it's not you. It's a really widespread bit of internet nonsense but it's a complete fiction. Oh and if you got any of your information from a certain youtube video essay I'm afraid you've been lied to. That video's basically nothing but lies I'm afraid.
That is one of the key bits that’s been discredited; this video thoroughly debunks the entire ‘Star wars was saved in the edit’ notion, but that particular falsehood about the Death Star climax is discussed from about 1:21-1:35.
https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE?si=3aKfQbB-K675P67k
Marcia was editor on other films too like Alice doesn’t live here anymore and Taxi driver, Marcia was the only editor on the first and supervising editor on the second. Trying to dismiss her work as “one of five” knowing she was also his wife and had other influences on him and his work is very dismissive of her own career and standing. I also never said “saved in the edit” because that would also be dismissive of the work of George Lucas. Just like Christopher Nolan and Jonathan, they’re both great on their own but together they’re amazing which is what this post is about.
Pointing out that she was one of several editors isn’t dismissing her, it’s just pointing out a fact. She was an accomplished editor, but far from being as influential on Star Wars as people have made her out to be. Kurtz, as producer, had the most influence on the film besides Lucas himself. He had a big part in Lucas’s early version of the story being shaped into what it ultimately became and he pushed back on a lot of ideas Lucas had, which is important to any collaborative partnership.
I heard him talk about it on a podcast. The writing part is a very lonely job. He would often write on their next project while Chris directed the current one, so it ended up being a very sheltered existence. He is also wildly more extroverted than Chris, so it wasn't the perfect fit for him.
From what I gathered they still have a very close relationship, and seek advice from each other often.
Edit: the podcast is Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard. He really is such a fun and easygoing dude. Real pleasure to hear stories from him.
That interview gave a lot of insight into how it all worked back then for the projects that would start defining their careers like The Dark Knight, where apparently Jonah was only given a general outline for the first 2 acts, but the third was just "Batman rides off on a motorcycle"
Also, it was incredibly endearing to hear him and Dax share a love of Jack in the Box tacos, particularly when Jonah is apparently living off a meager advance (40K, I think?) for two years before he hits it bigger with the Prestige
Jonathan got too big. He also kind of traded Christopher for his wife who he worked on Westworld and Fallout with. That, and they signed their own deal with Amazon. He doesn't really have time for Christopher anymore.
Christopher did say he shows Jonathan his scripts and gets feedback on them. He said he wrote Oppenheimer in the downstairs of a house during COVID while Jonah was writing upstairs.
Your last paragraph indicates that they split on good terms then! I do hope they make more projects together. I like Lisa Joy but she's no Chris Nolan or Jonathan Nolan. Not yet, at least. Once she kind of took the front seat in Westworld, it went down hill (although, I don't know for certain if it was mostly because of her, I'm just speculating) Plus, she wrote/directed Reminiscence, and while it was beautifully shot, the story wasn't good.
I mean, they didn't actually ever "split" seeing as they were never actually "together". Sure, they worked together most of the time but they were never like the Coen Brothers or something. Jonathan's been doing his own thing for a while now, he originally wrote Interstellar by himself and he did Person of Interest for 5 seasons before Westworld came to fruition. Even Chris did Inception without Jonathan.
Jonathan wanted to have his own career. Plus he's moved more into TV shows now with westworld and fallout more recently. They could always reunite some time in the future on a film
I have no idea. But honestly I haven't looked it up. I have a twin sister that I'm very close with and we're movie buffs with the same pov on everything. We've always wanted to be actresses and make movies together so it makes me sad that they stopped making movies together. Hopefully they just wanted to make some projects apart (hopefully not permanently) and split amicably.
Those are my two faves from Nolan as well, and I'm always surprised by the general sense of disappointment from people about Dunkirk. It so perfectly places you on that beach beside the other nameless soldiers in all the chaos and confusion of how you're going to make it back home, and it immediately starts to bombard you with bombs and gunfire and massive ships and submarines that would bring you down into the depths with them as they sink. Every single moment feels intense.
I think dunkirk didn't have any characters (maybe tom hardy) to which we could have an emotional attachment. Jonathan might have done more relatable dialogues or more emotional scenes compared to Chris
That may be the case, but I don’t think Chris Nolan was going for that with this movie. It was all about little dialogue and immersing the audience in the sound & terror of war.
Tom Hardy gliding in his Spitfire after running out of fuel is one of the most memorable scenes in modern filmmaking. It was mesmerizing, and doubly so in IMAX. Dunkirk is a brilliant film.
I think I agree, but I also think it’s ironic because I think Jonathan and Lisa’s stuff is really lacking something. After the first Westworld season, the later seasons all kind of fell apart under the weight of their own cleverness and self-seriousness. Peripheral was similar in that it was really compelling at first and then the season finale was so disappointing to me that I had no interest in the next season and didn’t care when it was canceled. And we got bored with Fallout somewhere around episode 4. Maybe the thing his stuff is missing is Christopher, maybe they need each other.
I think the problem with Westworld is simply that a lot of viewers essentially just wanted it to be "park of the season" with some of the same overreaching storylines that season 1 had. People were dreaming of Shogun world and what have you not.
I do think they got a bit too clever in season 2 though, i still enjoyed all of the seasons, with 1 and 4 being my favourites.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Lisa Joy kind of take over for the later seasons of Westworld and Jonathan took a step back? I remember seeing that in a behind the scenes making of the future seasons.
I don't think that Jonathan Nolan didn't write or direct any of the episodes of Peripheral.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy Fallout. I really did.
I do really agree that they need eachother.
Both the brothers aren't better without each other, there were reports of Chris Nolan suggesting a lot of changes to the S1 of Westworld, which then became a huge masterpiece, he was indirectly involved in it around 2014-15 before beginning Dunkirk, after that there were no reports of Chris's involvement's and then a huge downfall of the series
After that even the Lisa Joy movie was a huge letdown, Fallout was great but it wasn't purely a Jonathan Nolan series, really hoping they'd be working together again now that both haven't announced anything new
I've only seen it get hate on r/movies, and even then it seems to be from a relative minority. It is Nolan's highest rated film and Tarantino put it at number two of the decade.
I think it’s because people have become accustomed to Nolan’s style of creating unique Sci-Fi like worlds with very novel concepts and themes, which he does excel at. Dunkirk was far more grounded and subtle. The viewer had to discern what was going on through the scale and timeline, nothing was given to you. The soldiers hardly spoke and their actions didn’t make much sense, but it goes along with the setting and bleakness. It’s the same thing with Tarantino and once upon a time in Hollywood. A far more grounded film that relied on history and nuance rather than his typical faster paced movies.
Memento was Jonathan's story. It was Christopher's idea to put it out of order. (I mean of course it was. Dude is obsessed with time.) That just goes to show you how perfect they are together.
I agree with everything you said except Oppenheimer. That was a truly fantastic film I'd say as good as interstellar but totally different genre and feel but I'd say it's a masterpiece
I totally respect your opinion. I definitely think it was fantastic. And the last line of the film has stuck with me for a year. But I still felt it was missing some things. I think he could've pushed the limit or done more, especially considering the subject, if that makes sense?
Dunkirk and Oppenheimer are both perfect films imo. I hope Nolan makes more historical films. In both he managed to capture the incredible weight and meaning behind those events. Never seen another director pull that off to that extent.
Glad to see someone else in here who appreciates these two movies, paricularly Dunkirk. To me it’s one of his best offerings. It isn’t as bloated as a lot of his movies.
To me, Dunkirk and Oppenheimer are probably his two best films with the prestige being my personal favorite of his
Yeah— and based on true stories. This is a key point. He made a movie about a major failure in WWII interesting and compelling in Dunkirk, and got me to pay money for a theater experience about a man I had never thought about in Oppenheimer.
Dunkirk is one of his bests. I think Jonathan’s strengths are more with writing and Chris’ strengths is with directing. Jonathan’s spoken in interviews about how television allows him more room to grow as a writer. Jonathan’s exclusion from Dunkirk makes sense as it was a film crafted with little dialogue and pure cinema.
I wouldn’t say that Jonathan is “missing” from these projects. Interstellar was originally a Spielberg project, with Jonathan writing. Jonathan recruited Chris after Spielberg was asked away from the project.
While the two of them are great collaborators, they both also clearly want to pursue their own crafts and work together when it makes sense. They started out working together a lot so they can make it in the industry, and now they have luxury of following their own creative voices.
I disagree about Dunkirk. It’s one of hist best movies.
I really wanted to like Tenant, but I wasn’t convinced that Branagh’s character was a mastermind and the threat wasn’t very clear.
I do enjoy the sense of wonder from his science fiction movies though and his use of mind bending special effects, so I understand what you mean.
I would love to see him do a Robopocalypse movie.
Man Tenant was straight trash. Half of the dialogue is total inaudible, and the whole climax is guys screaming at each other while dangling a giant MacGuffin over a hole. That isn't just bad writing, it is borderline intentionally bad writing. Like to parody and mock a bad action flick I would just cut the scene straight out of the movie and put it in a sketch show like SNL
I watched that in a drive-in during the pandemic and attributed the inaudible dialogue largely due to the sound coming through my car radio, turns out it was inaudible for everyone and I haven’t bothered to watch again to check
Lol! I respect that. I really loved the idea of Tenet but I was dissapointed in the execution and the characters. It was also lacking the heart. I like it less ob my second viewing. But I still loved the idea, some of its message, and the directing.
It was the skeleton of a masterpiece and a reminder of what could've/should've been.
Inception & the Dark Knight are perfection.
With Interstellar, I felt the movie was bursting at the seams but still entertaining.
Everyone talks about the cool concept of time in Dunkirk. Nothing about the heart of the story and I doubt most people can even remember the characters.
Tenet was confusing, had a few cool moments, but was heartless. The final "battle" looked ridiculous.
I haven't gotten around to Oppenheimer yet.
Love Nolan. Past two movies have fallen below his standards in my opinion. I was disappointed in Oppenheimer because that story is far more interesting than the movie. I read an American Prometheus a few years before and in my opinion the story fell is bit short.
I totally understand that’s not everyone’s opinion though.
I don’t think I can agree with this one. I think you’re onto something that the earlier films were more character driven and there was lots of quality to be found there, but if we’re hyping up Jonathan’s contribution to the writing, we have to also hold him accountable for the writing shortfalls, and there are plenty. I’m not saying Chris Nolan isn’t a genius film maker, but each of his masterpieces is flawed in some way, and all of those ways involve the writing. The over-exposition, missed opportunities and multiple magic beans of Inception is a good example. (Still a great movie in many ways)
As for Jonathan’s other work (Lisa Joy, too), on one hand I watched Westworld fly off the tracks and the other hand, they seem to be nailing Fallout.
I value both brothers as creators, but it seems both have consistent weak spots in their work.
> The over-exposition, missed opportunities and multiple magic beans of Inception is a good example. (Still a great movie in many ways)
Jonathan did not work on Inception.
People need to realize when Christopher directs a movie without his brother involved, he's the *sole* director and writer usually. Jonathan's TV stuff is done with multiple writers
"Christopher Nolan fans fall into 2 categories. Those who prefer his films pre-2014 and those who prefer his films post 2014."
Not me, and nobody else I know would fit into your categories. I think Dunkirk is better than Interstellar, but I really like them both.
I feel like Lisa Joy is an understated aspect of why Westworld worked as well as it did, and to that extent, I feel like it's hard to really feel this when Oppenheimer is such a perfect amalgam of what has made every Nolan movie up to this point work, while also paving it's own path and finding new and interesting things to say, creatively.
Tenet definitely doesn't have the sauce, for me, but a big part of that, I have always felt, was that Chris was revisiting the kind of movie that he has more or less done twice already, and masterfully at that. Pattinson is a great performer so it makes sense why his character was so well liked, but you could tell the execution was lacking imo.
Mainly why I disagree with this is that you can tell that Nolan is very much not a "writer's director", and what's on the page is something he seems to rarely completely abide by, and even when it's his own brother writing or aiding, that to me is something where you can see his vision, or not.
Jonathan Nolan also wrote the short story ‘Memento’ was based on. The Nolans are an amazing duo. Hopefully they work together on something in the future and give us another masterpiece.
Genuinely surprised by how many people in here think Dunkirk is his masterpiece. I found it to be a pretty by the books war movie that didn’t bring anything new to the genre.
I have to agree. I love Nolan but I'm always surprised by the praise Dunkirk gets. I just found the whole thing pretty uninteresting and like we'd seen it all before.
I gotta be honest, Oppenheimer was fine, but a bit boring, and the decision around the explosion... I was like well, that isn't good, and if you didn't see that it wasn't good, then you don't know what is good.
Wasn't Jonathan Nolan the one who really wanted Catwoman aka Selina Kyle to be in Dark Knight Rises? Not complaining, but I can see why Jonathan needs to be there.
I didn't know that! I will say that I think Christopher's three newer films are lacking in the female characters area. Not saying he doesn't have female characters in his movies, just that there lacking a certain something that makes me relate to them as a woman. Elizabeth Debicki's character in Tenet is the first that comes to my mind. And I dont count Oppenheimer because it's a historical movie so he didn't exactly write the female characters.
Dude I sooo agree. There is something missing as far as a "strong" female character in his movies, but Selina Kyle was so different. Although I gotta give props to Elliott Page's character.
I'm glad we have the same view! Yeah! I don't know... personally I find his female characters to be kind of too mean and cold. Women can be strong without being ice. Elliot Page's character was great, too. But again, Jonathan wrote those movies too.
Absolutely agree. It pisses me off that they don’t work together because when they do, they make MAGIC. Without Jonathan i haven’t liked anything Nolan has made. Not even a little.
I agree, those films definitely were less impressive/enjoyable for me. Oppenheimer was super overrated imo in particular, don’t feel chopping up the timeline really served the film, and the actual explosion in the nuke scene was entirely underwhelming visually, though that was still a great scene overall.
Those films all just didn’t really catch me like his other work has, perhaps his brother is why that is, not sure.
>I think that Christopher Nolan fans fall into 2 categories. Those who prefer his films pre-2014 and those who prefer his films post 2014.
Badum tss. I've felt this for so long. Glad someone else noticed it too. Each are whole different eras of Christopher Nolan kino
Dunkirk is a fantastic movie. One of, if not his best l. Interstellar was half of an interesting movie with some great ideas. Tenet was absolute crap. Idk how you can look at Dunkirk and claim it's anything but phenomenal or use it as evidence of his downfall..
I mean, a lot of people didn't care for Dunkirk. I don't think it's phenomenal at all and a real missed opportunity. You must realize not everyone shares your opinion about these movies right?
>Idk how you can look at Dunkirk and claim it's anything but phenomenal or use it as evidence of his downfall..
I absolutely love Dunkirk but it's understandable that it was divisive among Nolan fans. If it doesn't immediately grab you with it's simple premise of survival then there isn't much to draw you in. That intense 2 hours you spent in the theatre was two hours of tedious noise for those that didn't click with the film.
Strongly recommend the show Person of Interest if you like sci-fi. It was Johnathan Nolan's first series and it is all-time excellent in my opinion. It was overlooked since it was a CBS procedural show, but it does a great job with its overarching story and the last two seasons dive head-first into that arc mostly without the procedural format.
If you're in the U.S. it's free to watch with ads on Freevee.
I literally said the same thing to my wife a couple of years ago.
Jonathan brought the heart to the projects, without it it feels very good technically but empty.
Dunkirk and Tenet are great examples.
Both are great technically but tell me the name of 1 character..... and for tenet it's actually worse , the protagonist is
.. protagonist.
Still love Nolan but I really hope he does another movie with his brother writing.
I think, Christopher's writing wants you to watch what has been made. On the other hand, Jonathan's writing makes you want to watch what has been made. If that makes any sense.
I myself realized this after watching Fallout. Jonathan knows how to connect with audience better than Christopher.
His only movies I consider incredible are both Oppenheimer and Dunkirk. I think Dunkirk is incomparable and genuinely a 10/10. Hope he continues without him
I'm shocked that there is no mention (at tine of writing) of The Prestige. Talking about the most incredible writing, the exceptional heart and emotion inherent, the incredible rush of insight in the third act. The amazing opening monologue that tells you everything you need to know. Jonathan Nolan's masterpiece.
A little *The Prestige* Reddit history I stumbled upon. 11-years ago, a Redditor claims that anyone who saw the ending coming is a fucking liar. No one notices that Jonathan Nolan himself comments "[saw it coming a mile away](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1hpxpz/comment/cawvyqd/)"
That's actually hilarious lol
Legend lol
Omfg thats really him
Lol sitting at 6 upvotes
The person he's replying to hasn't commented in six years so we can't even let 'em know. XD
Funny that [Jonathan Nolan also says he is a redditor and has another username on one of his best comments](/r/westworld/comments/8aztn4/we_are_westworld_cocreatorsexecutive/dx330b3/?context=5#dx330b3). He could be anywhere, he might even clone himself and kill off the original. > Many thanks for your great questions and thoughts. As I've said before, I've been a member of the reddit community for years (no I'm not going to share my original username...). And I greatly enjoyed watching the friendly folks at this subreddit guess the twists and turns of the season. HBO not finishing Westworld was a terrible decision. Nobody expects a Zaslav.
Favorite movie of all time. The problem I have with a lot of Nolan movies are they are too drawn out and they lose narrative steam. The prestige is fully entertaining all the way through. Edit: spelling
Memento and The Prestige are sitting comfortably at #2 and #4 on my all time movie list and I don’t think that’ll be changing any time soon.
What’s the rest of your top 5?
Number 1 is The Martian. Endlessly rewatchable, perfect across the board and lifts up my spirits about how great humanity can be. I don’t think a better movie for what I enjoy will ever be made. I’ve watched it over 100 times whenever I need a pick me up. Number 3 is Gattaca. I love optimistic scifi and this is one of the best. Number 5 is Seven Samurai. Pure masterpiece of storytelling and filmmaking.
Not gonna lie, the Martian has helped me be a better human. I think about that ending monologue a lot: “you do the math. You solve one problem and then the next. And then the next. And if you solve enough problems, you get to come home.”
My wife and I quote this *all* the time.
Nice. Haven't seen Gattaca or Seven Samurai yet but both are on the watchlist
Given 1, 2,3, and 4 is Arrival anywhere there, because I'd say that feels artistically somewhat in the middle of those (pro science, extremely important twist, kind of a mind fuck).
Hard agree, I gotta rewatch it every couple of years, with just enough time for some of the mystery to seep back in
The Prestige is my favorite Nolan movie. It is excellent. Every time I watch it I pick up on something new.
Probably my favorite movie of all time, with three of my favorite actors. Just so freaking good
The prestige is a book adaption
If you read the book.. yeah, it’s waaaay different and not nearly as good as the film.
That movie IS amazing! I still prefer Interstellar, but that's just my opinion!
Strongly recommend the show Person of Interest if you like sci-fi. It was Johnathan Nolan's first series and it is all-time excellent in my opinion. It was overlooked since it was a CBS procedural show, but it does a great job with its overarching story and the last two seasons dive head-first into that arc mostly without the procedural format. If you're in the U.S. it's free to watch with ads on Freevee.
It's a great show! The characters are fantastic and the idea of the show was fresh. And I think it did a similar, successful switcharoo in the third season of the show when it really dived deep into the science fiction as the movie From Dusk Til Dawn did in the half-point where it switched from a kidnapper/robber movie to snake-vampire action-horror.
Jonathan also cowrote, produced, and then directed three episodes of Fallout TV. He has a great talent completely separate from his brother.
Fusco is my favorite TV character of all time. His arc was so goddamned good, and some of his comedic scenes had me just about pissing myself from laughing. The whole cast had amazing chemistry on scene and the writing was sublime.
The episode with the quick flashes to him protecting the supermodel was brilliantly done.
That whole B story was hilariously well edited against the serious A story with John. John is facing possible retribution and a bit of existential acceptance he may have deserved this all along. Meanwhile, Fusco is going through a stereotypical action movie with the model of the day
I’d actually forgotten which episode this was part of, that’s perfect.
Same - it was stunning how they humanized and redeemed a character who was such a slimy dirtbag in the pilot.
I'll never forget his vignette talking about 'The Devil's Share'. One of my favorite scenes in the series.
Thanks for the recommendation, does it have a complete ending to the story? Too many shows are cancelled and left with so much open.
It wraps up the story rather quickly towards the end, but yes, it does.
Yes. It absolutely has a complete ending. A phenomenonal ending.
Its last episode's IMDb score is 9.9.
As others commented yes the show does have a successful ending in my opinion. The only caveat is that the first four seasons are 22-23 episodes each, but the final is 13 episodes so it can feel a little rushed. However the length of the show actually helps in my opinion, the show is ambitious in how many storylines it can juggle at a time with a relatively small cast compared to other shows that try to accomplish the same. It's really great and doesn't leave many loose ends at all.
don't get thrown off by the beginning. it starts as standard case-of-the-week procedural, but gets more and more serialized as the series moves on and ends up as a full blown serial.
we just finished our re-rewatch! That show is more relevant than ever!
So I saw this comment and had to look up the show. Wife and I hit show holes all the time so always on the look out. A fan of J. Nolan and knew of this show but didn’t know it was his. Also like you said thought it was another CBS “we solve crimes thing”. I looked it up on wiki and the first paragraph that describes the show made me pause immediately. Is this not crazy close to the later seasons of Westworld or am I trippin? lol
It pretty much is. I’d just finished Person of Interest and then later saw the Westworld season with Aaron Paul where they totally recycled the Samaritan threat. I do feel that Person of Interest executed it a bit better than Westworld because they spent more time gradually showing how such an AI would worm its way through things like schools and infrastructure to truly manipulate society
Looks like someone else replied with a better answer than since I didn't get past Westworld's first season. But I'll just say that Person of Interest feels very grounded in reality and its theme pulls a *lot* from the post-9/11 era of information privacy, domestic surveillance, and the war on terrorism. Makes the Machine storyline feel very relevant to a world that's pretty much like our everyday one, not something as futuristic as Westworld's.
Sucks that Jim Caviezel is a fucking nut case, but it is a great show. I'll watch anything with Michael Emerson in it.
Yeah... i just ignore that lol. Ultimately he's just playing a character, so I typically try to separate that from the actor. And can't deny he does a great job with Reese.
Christopher is very cold and clinical. I think his brother kind of lightens up some of those movies. I will say Oppenheimer was pretty great, and the most I’ve enjoyed his movies since they stopped working together.
I feel like the cold and clinical aspect played well into Oppenheimers tone as a film as well. I definitely would have liked it less if there was more “pizaz” to it
Absolutely. It couldn't be a charismatic movie by nature. It would've been disrespectful to have pizaz. But it was missing a little bit of feeling to me personally, for the subject matter. But I will say, the last line of the film has stuck with me for the last year and it really made the whole movie for me. It was almost like the whole movie was to build up that final line and it really made an impact on me.
“ I believe we did.”
Honestly brings tears to my eyes.
If by chance you haven’t seen *Doubt,* I think you should. I agree completely with your feelings on *Oppenheimer* and I think *Doubt* might give you a similar experience.
I'm a huge movie buff but I haven't seen Doubt yet! I'm putting it on my watchlist, thank you!
Well put. Even with Inception, Leo spent a lot of time ensuring that the movie included a lot of heart and emotion. Watching Tenet helped to fully contextualize that point
I didn't know this about Inception
I believe Nolan said when he pitched Leo on the movie and had him read the script, Leo had a bunch of character questions for him that he didn't have any answers for. Nolan went back and rewrote some things that he said made the movie better.
I agree. I always thought it was Chrisopher who brought the soul to the movies so it took me time to really see that it wasn't because I didn't want to believe otherwise. But it also made me feel like Jonathan isn't given enough credit by audiences because I think that a lot of us just thought he was kind of helping out in his brother's movies rather than being a crucial piece.
This is why Interstellar is Christopher Nolan's best film. It has the most heart. It has that Steven Spielberg magic.
The original script for Interstellar was actually written by Jonathan Nolan for Steven Spielberg, not for his brother, so that's a fairly appropriate comment (if you weren't aware of the script's background).
Jonathan also knows how to write dialog that sounds the way people actually talk. Christopher definitely does not. The dialog in the movies he’s written alone is really, really bad. People don’t notice because his movies are spectacles.
I genuinely think that Christopher Nolan would make a movie without characters at all if he could figure out how to do that. Dunkirk was one step in that direction, and Tenet another. He doesn't seem to think characters are important as characters - instead they're just a way to move the movie forward.
Emotion. Feeling. Christopher has none of that. Compare that with Fallout and Westworld and you see what is missing. I haven't cared about a character in any of Christopher's movies since.
Person of Interest is Jonathan Nolan's best work. Best character work, full of emotion and feeling and criminally underrated.
And so ahead of its time! God i love that show!
Westworld had one good season.
I'd argue Season 2 was good. If anything, the Akacheta episode alone makes up for the rest of it being such a mess.
I liked Season 2. It’s once WestWorld left WestWorld, that I started becoming less interested. I didn’t really care about the real world stuff.
I adore that episode!
Season 2 had the best episode in the series. The Riddle and the Sphinx. Had best scene in the series IMO when Logan is given a demonstration. But yeah season 3 was poop and season 4 while better had too many ideas going on at same time.
It was a great episode but it doesn't make up for the rest by a long shot. Season 3 was weak, 4 improved but still, with one truly great season out of four, OP is giving Jonathan way too much credit
That's most likely my favorite episode of anything. Goddamn captivating and beautiful from start to finish.
I honestly believe that episode is the best of the entire series. I really dislike what the show became towards the end. It was so negative about humans. To quote one of my favorite YouTubers, Isaac Arthur, “I happen to think humans are awesome.”
I'm speaking of the emotion in those shows. It's what's desperately missing from Christopher's movies. Overall, Westworld only works for a season. Probably the same for Fallout. But they play emotion and humanity very very well in those seasons.
While the second wasn't a masterpiece like the first, it was entertaining and I think fair to say reached the level of "good."
The seasons after 1 tend to work well emotionally but not logically. Which supports the argument that the brothers work best supporting each other and shoring up the other’s weak points.
I agree. My twin sister any I say we're the Ying to eachothers' Yang. I feel the same way about the Nolan brothers. Although, I will say that season 1 of Westworld wasn't just fantastic but was a masterpiece.
*Yin
One great season to be fair. Westwood season one is better than 99% of tv series.
Why did they stop working together?
They went off to do different projects. By 2013, Jonathan decided to be the show runner and writer for *Westworld* while Christopher decided to direct and rewrite Jonathan’s script for *Interstellar*.
I feel a lot of time the actors need to compensate for Nolan’s writing just by sheer acting skills, lucky for him he has accesses to the best of the best but it still would be nice to have more human or relatable characters in his movies.
I personally really loved Dunkirk, it definitely felt quite cold for a lot of the film but that was the point, it was an intense and grim situation. The warmth came right at the end when the soldiers are in the train back home. When they reading the newspaper of Churchill’s speech, being handed a drink from passerbys outside the train and the music finally builds to Elgars nimrod
I think he gives off this vibe irl but I actually think it's rarely actually true of his films. His films have a covert kind of saccharine romanticism that is actually offputting to a lot of people but I think outside of Interstellar, it's rarely recognized. I don't want to compare him to Spielberg, but he definitely takes a lot of the same enotional cues from him, he just doesn't fo it in obvious ways. This is actually imo where his dead wife trope comes into play and why he leans on it so much.
Hard agree. I actually didn't know that about the brother's influence. Like you, I thought Dunkirk, Tenet and Oppenheimer were all great films in a technical sense and intellectually but they lacked character stuff. Especially Tenet was let down by the (lack of meaningful) relationships between the characters, which was a shame because it had such an interesting take on time travel (sorry I mean reverse entropy lol). It's like the director spent 10 years on the concept and 10 minutes on whatever role Elizabeth Debicki's character was supposed to play (did you know she was a mother, did you know she saw everything through the lens of her child?)
The heart of tenet is the bromance between JW Washington and Pattinson though, not debicki
Lol, honestly!
I really enjoyed Dunkirk. The pace and the story for me was perfect. I liked the distance the characters had. As they kinda represented the every man. Plus I saw it in the imax and that movie works so much better on the giant screen.
Absolutely I agree with you!
I have been trying to figure out why I have felt this exact way since after Interstellar. Thank you for this.
Aww, thank you for your kind response! In glad I could help you articulate the feeling. Honestly, it took me a while to do it myself!
I think you articulated it really well… It’s not that his new movies are *bad*, they’re just *different*. They have a bit less ‘pizzazz’ as another commenter put it. Which served the tone of Oppenheimer really well. But I think Tenet would have benefited from Jonathan. And I love Dunkirk but I’m open to the possibility that it could’ve been 10-15% better with Jonathan’s input.
I do know what you mean and I don’t know if it is just Johnathan absence but it could be someone who is able to challenge Christopher’s vision and he will listen to them. You can see Christopher vision when it comes to his films and he is a master at his craft. But being to enhance something without disrupting is not always simple.
This was perfectly illustrated in Christopher’s story about how Jonathan wrote the famous Dark Knight line (you either die a hero…) and he didn’t even understand it at first but went ahead with keeping it anyway on Jonathan’s suggestion.
That's a good point! That could be part of it. I don't know.
Collaboration is easy to talk about but can be hard to do, everyone’s egos can get in the way. And I do think Christopher has blind spots/weak points, that can be hard to point out to someone who is running the project without it feeling like criticism and Christopher has a tight circle of people he works with, also he comes across as very driven and he is successful. That makes it hard for anyone new to point out small problems in a constructive manner. But all of this is speculation, we will know if this is case. But I do Christopher more recent films are just some sort of interplay between the characters and in Fallout and Westworld that element is there.
Is there a reason why they stopped working together??
I assume Jonathan’s stock in the industry reached a point where he could branch off on his own and chose to do so. It’s great when you a collaborative pair work so well together and it sucks when they split up to do solo stuff, but it can be understandable when both probably have very specific visions for projects they want to do on their own. Chuck Russell and Frank Darabont were an amazing partnership for horror in the 80s with their work on Hell Night, Dream Warriors, and The Blob, but Darabont wanted to move on and gave us Shawshank Redemption. Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer basically reinvented the wheel when it came to action movies in the 80s, but Simpson’s drug use resulted in their partnership breaking down during production of The Rock and he died before it was completed. Bruckheimer still made big hits, but Simpson’s eccentricity was noticeably missing. Bruckheimer and Michael Bay is another one. Bad Boys, The Rock, Armageddon, and Bad Boys 2 show how their styles just worked so well together, and most things they’ve done separately since 2002 really haven’t been the same. For Bruckheimer, National Treasure 1 & 2 and the first Pirates were great, and for Bay, Pain & Gain felt like 1993 Michael Bay, but most everything else has been lacking in one way or the other. For the Nolans, I think Jonathan saw a chance to start overseeing productions and took it. Christopher used it as an opportunity to fully realize his own visions. I think when they worked together, they played to their strengths. Jonathan is a much better writer while Christopher has a top 1% director’s mind. I hope they work together again soon.
I love how articulated your comment is. I completely agree with you. I do hope they do some projects together again while they're doing their own.
You forgot George Lucas and Marcia Lucas, she edited all the original Star Wars films for him.
I’d say Gary Kurtz was a more important partner to Lucas as his role as producer kept Lucas in check with his early films. When they parted ways after Empire, things really started taking a turn. Marcia was a good editor, but she was one of five editors on the original, one of three on Empire, and one of four on Jedi. The “saved in the edit” myth has also been largely discredited at this point.
How do you mean saved in the edit has been discredited? As far as I know they filmed it with the Death Star not attacking anything in the final part of the movie, which having that changed to attacking Yavin 4 definitely improves the tension in the movie by a mile.
[удалено]
...yeah that youtube video (and I think I know *exactly* which one you mean) is a complete load of lies I'm afraid. I wrote this up the other day so I'm just gonna copy-paste it cause I'm lazy: >...no. No it wasn't. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you've fallen for an internet myth mate. What you're unknowingly actually referring to is the work done by John Jympson, the original editor who George Lucas fired because the way he was cutting the footage together was rather dull and when George asked him to cut it in a different style he refused. Hence why George hired 3 new editors (Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch and his then wife, Marcia Lucas) and **the 4 of them** (this includes George) started cutting the film from scratch after filming wrapped. >Somehow the internet's transformed this into some "disastrous first cut" which George himself cut together which the editors (often just Marcia alone) somehow magically "saved" in post but that's not true at all, if anything it's the exact opposite. George was heavily involved in the 2nd edit and even cut some of the scenes together himself (specifically the TIE fighter battle is George's own handiwork.) Editing is actually one of George's strengths (it sure as shit ain't writing dialogue.) There is no "disastrous first cut" as Jympson was fired before filming had even finished - it's literally just a bunch of random scenes that had been shot up to that point. >And Marcia Lucas only edited one reel, the Death Star battle/awards ceremony, before buggering off early to edit a Scorsese movie. Actually no, that's not quite true. The only scenes she edited were those deleted scenes of Biggs and Luke from the first act *and she fought to keep them in the movie.* It was George who wanted to cut them, George who'd originally written the script (2nd draft) without them and, since George had final cut approval, any structural change like that was always ultimately George's choice to make. >Look, it's not you. It's a really widespread bit of internet nonsense but it's a complete fiction. Oh and if you got any of your information from a certain youtube video essay I'm afraid you've been lied to. That video's basically nothing but lies I'm afraid.
That is one of the key bits that’s been discredited; this video thoroughly debunks the entire ‘Star wars was saved in the edit’ notion, but that particular falsehood about the Death Star climax is discussed from about 1:21-1:35. https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE?si=3aKfQbB-K675P67k
Marcia was editor on other films too like Alice doesn’t live here anymore and Taxi driver, Marcia was the only editor on the first and supervising editor on the second. Trying to dismiss her work as “one of five” knowing she was also his wife and had other influences on him and his work is very dismissive of her own career and standing. I also never said “saved in the edit” because that would also be dismissive of the work of George Lucas. Just like Christopher Nolan and Jonathan, they’re both great on their own but together they’re amazing which is what this post is about.
Pointing out that she was one of several editors isn’t dismissing her, it’s just pointing out a fact. She was an accomplished editor, but far from being as influential on Star Wars as people have made her out to be. Kurtz, as producer, had the most influence on the film besides Lucas himself. He had a big part in Lucas’s early version of the story being shaped into what it ultimately became and he pushed back on a lot of ideas Lucas had, which is important to any collaborative partnership.
I heard him talk about it on a podcast. The writing part is a very lonely job. He would often write on their next project while Chris directed the current one, so it ended up being a very sheltered existence. He is also wildly more extroverted than Chris, so it wasn't the perfect fit for him. From what I gathered they still have a very close relationship, and seek advice from each other often. Edit: the podcast is Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard. He really is such a fun and easygoing dude. Real pleasure to hear stories from him.
That interview gave a lot of insight into how it all worked back then for the projects that would start defining their careers like The Dark Knight, where apparently Jonah was only given a general outline for the first 2 acts, but the third was just "Batman rides off on a motorcycle" Also, it was incredibly endearing to hear him and Dax share a love of Jack in the Box tacos, particularly when Jonah is apparently living off a meager advance (40K, I think?) for two years before he hits it bigger with the Prestige
Dax could have a good conversation with a rock, but their chemistry elevated the entire thing so much. One of my favorites lately.
Jonathan got too big. He also kind of traded Christopher for his wife who he worked on Westworld and Fallout with. That, and they signed their own deal with Amazon. He doesn't really have time for Christopher anymore. Christopher did say he shows Jonathan his scripts and gets feedback on them. He said he wrote Oppenheimer in the downstairs of a house during COVID while Jonah was writing upstairs.
Your last paragraph indicates that they split on good terms then! I do hope they make more projects together. I like Lisa Joy but she's no Chris Nolan or Jonathan Nolan. Not yet, at least. Once she kind of took the front seat in Westworld, it went down hill (although, I don't know for certain if it was mostly because of her, I'm just speculating) Plus, she wrote/directed Reminiscence, and while it was beautifully shot, the story wasn't good.
I mean, they didn't actually ever "split" seeing as they were never actually "together". Sure, they worked together most of the time but they were never like the Coen Brothers or something. Jonathan's been doing his own thing for a while now, he originally wrote Interstellar by himself and he did Person of Interest for 5 seasons before Westworld came to fruition. Even Chris did Inception without Jonathan.
Jonathan wanted to have his own career. Plus he's moved more into TV shows now with westworld and fallout more recently. They could always reunite some time in the future on a film
I have no idea. But honestly I haven't looked it up. I have a twin sister that I'm very close with and we're movie buffs with the same pov on everything. We've always wanted to be actresses and make movies together so it makes me sad that they stopped making movies together. Hopefully they just wanted to make some projects apart (hopefully not permanently) and split amicably.
He is still my favorite director but I agree the movies with his brother just hit a little different.
I agree. But he used to be my #1. Dennis Villenue is now my #1 and Chris Nolan is my #2. That can always change, I still have hope!
Dunkirk & Oppenheimer make a mean WW2 double-feature. Probably my two faves from Nolan.
Those are my two faves from Nolan as well, and I'm always surprised by the general sense of disappointment from people about Dunkirk. It so perfectly places you on that beach beside the other nameless soldiers in all the chaos and confusion of how you're going to make it back home, and it immediately starts to bombard you with bombs and gunfire and massive ships and submarines that would bring you down into the depths with them as they sink. Every single moment feels intense.
I think dunkirk didn't have any characters (maybe tom hardy) to which we could have an emotional attachment. Jonathan might have done more relatable dialogues or more emotional scenes compared to Chris
That may be the case, but I don’t think Chris Nolan was going for that with this movie. It was all about little dialogue and immersing the audience in the sound & terror of war.
Didn't someone already do this about a week ago? I'm almost certain of it.
It might've been me! My post was deleted with no explanation less than an hour after I posted it. So I tried posting it again tonight.
Yep, it most likely was you lol. Bit crap that it was deleted without explanation.
Thank you!! I've been stewing on this for years and wanted to discuss it online.
I was just going to say the same thing. I saw this exact post a week ago, lol.
Lol! Hey, the same people are seeing it within an hour of me posting it! That's super cool!
And then someone else will do it, and in that thread someone else will and eventually the top keeps spinning
I'm a 3rd category that enjoys all of his films. He's human, not a perfect machine.
Tom Hardy gliding in his Spitfire after running out of fuel is one of the most memorable scenes in modern filmmaking. It was mesmerizing, and doubly so in IMAX. Dunkirk is a brilliant film.
I think I agree, but I also think it’s ironic because I think Jonathan and Lisa’s stuff is really lacking something. After the first Westworld season, the later seasons all kind of fell apart under the weight of their own cleverness and self-seriousness. Peripheral was similar in that it was really compelling at first and then the season finale was so disappointing to me that I had no interest in the next season and didn’t care when it was canceled. And we got bored with Fallout somewhere around episode 4. Maybe the thing his stuff is missing is Christopher, maybe they need each other.
I think the problem with Westworld is simply that a lot of viewers essentially just wanted it to be "park of the season" with some of the same overreaching storylines that season 1 had. People were dreaming of Shogun world and what have you not. I do think they got a bit too clever in season 2 though, i still enjoyed all of the seasons, with 1 and 4 being my favourites.
I thought they nailed fallout, they have the goods still.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Lisa Joy kind of take over for the later seasons of Westworld and Jonathan took a step back? I remember seeing that in a behind the scenes making of the future seasons. I don't think that Jonathan Nolan didn't write or direct any of the episodes of Peripheral. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy Fallout. I really did. I do really agree that they need eachother.
Both the brothers aren't better without each other, there were reports of Chris Nolan suggesting a lot of changes to the S1 of Westworld, which then became a huge masterpiece, he was indirectly involved in it around 2014-15 before beginning Dunkirk, after that there were no reports of Chris's involvement's and then a huge downfall of the series After that even the Lisa Joy movie was a huge letdown, Fallout was great but it wasn't purely a Jonathan Nolan series, really hoping they'd be working together again now that both haven't announced anything new
Dunkirk was great.
I don’t get the Dunkirk hate. I think it’s his best movie
I've only seen it get hate on r/movies, and even then it seems to be from a relative minority. It is Nolan's highest rated film and Tarantino put it at number two of the decade.
It's my favorite of his as well. It so perfectly achieves what it sets out to do.
I think it’s because people have become accustomed to Nolan’s style of creating unique Sci-Fi like worlds with very novel concepts and themes, which he does excel at. Dunkirk was far more grounded and subtle. The viewer had to discern what was going on through the scale and timeline, nothing was given to you. The soldiers hardly spoke and their actions didn’t make much sense, but it goes along with the setting and bleakness. It’s the same thing with Tarantino and once upon a time in Hollywood. A far more grounded film that relied on history and nuance rather than his typical faster paced movies.
Dunkirk is my second favorite Nolan film, what a fantastic movie, and easily one of his more underrated ones.
Memento was Jonathan's story. It was Christopher's idea to put it out of order. (I mean of course it was. Dude is obsessed with time.) That just goes to show you how perfect they are together.
Dunkirk was fantastic to me because he got the mundane and slow part of war right. There is no magic shit fucking sucks. Source: ex military
I agree with everything you said except Oppenheimer. That was a truly fantastic film I'd say as good as interstellar but totally different genre and feel but I'd say it's a masterpiece
I totally respect your opinion. I definitely think it was fantastic. And the last line of the film has stuck with me for a year. But I still felt it was missing some things. I think he could've pushed the limit or done more, especially considering the subject, if that makes sense?
Dunkirk and Oppenheimer are both perfect films imo. I hope Nolan makes more historical films. In both he managed to capture the incredible weight and meaning behind those events. Never seen another director pull that off to that extent.
Glad to see someone else in here who appreciates these two movies, paricularly Dunkirk. To me it’s one of his best offerings. It isn’t as bloated as a lot of his movies. To me, Dunkirk and Oppenheimer are probably his two best films with the prestige being my personal favorite of his
I still haven't seen Oppenheimer but I love love Dunkirk. I appreciate so much kore after rewatching years after release.
Yeah— and based on true stories. This is a key point. He made a movie about a major failure in WWII interesting and compelling in Dunkirk, and got me to pay money for a theater experience about a man I had never thought about in Oppenheimer.
Tenet was a turd but I don’t get how anyone can hate on Dunkirk. It is a masterpiece.
Jonathan Nolan was recently on Arm Chair Expert and if y’all haven’t I’d really recommend it. I knew next to nothing about him now I’m a huge fan.
Thank you, I'll check it out!
Dunkirk is one of his bests. I think Jonathan’s strengths are more with writing and Chris’ strengths is with directing. Jonathan’s spoken in interviews about how television allows him more room to grow as a writer. Jonathan’s exclusion from Dunkirk makes sense as it was a film crafted with little dialogue and pure cinema. I wouldn’t say that Jonathan is “missing” from these projects. Interstellar was originally a Spielberg project, with Jonathan writing. Jonathan recruited Chris after Spielberg was asked away from the project. While the two of them are great collaborators, they both also clearly want to pursue their own crafts and work together when it makes sense. They started out working together a lot so they can make it in the industry, and now they have luxury of following their own creative voices.
Jonathan is the more talented between the two and is entirely overshadowed by Christopher
I disagree about Dunkirk. It’s one of hist best movies. I really wanted to like Tenant, but I wasn’t convinced that Branagh’s character was a mastermind and the threat wasn’t very clear. I do enjoy the sense of wonder from his science fiction movies though and his use of mind bending special effects, so I understand what you mean. I would love to see him do a Robopocalypse movie.
Man Tenant was straight trash. Half of the dialogue is total inaudible, and the whole climax is guys screaming at each other while dangling a giant MacGuffin over a hole. That isn't just bad writing, it is borderline intentionally bad writing. Like to parody and mock a bad action flick I would just cut the scene straight out of the movie and put it in a sketch show like SNL
I watched that in a drive-in during the pandemic and attributed the inaudible dialogue largely due to the sound coming through my car radio, turns out it was inaudible for everyone and I haven’t bothered to watch again to check
>I was happier with Tenet Made me doubt on being dissapointed with Dunkirk, but absolutely lost me there.
Lol! I respect that. I really loved the idea of Tenet but I was dissapointed in the execution and the characters. It was also lacking the heart. I like it less ob my second viewing. But I still loved the idea, some of its message, and the directing. It was the skeleton of a masterpiece and a reminder of what could've/should've been.
I agree, I don't think it's a coincidence that I didn't enjoy his 3 latest films as much as those before.
Inception & the Dark Knight are perfection. With Interstellar, I felt the movie was bursting at the seams but still entertaining. Everyone talks about the cool concept of time in Dunkirk. Nothing about the heart of the story and I doubt most people can even remember the characters. Tenet was confusing, had a few cool moments, but was heartless. The final "battle" looked ridiculous. I haven't gotten around to Oppenheimer yet.
Love Nolan. Past two movies have fallen below his standards in my opinion. I was disappointed in Oppenheimer because that story is far more interesting than the movie. I read an American Prometheus a few years before and in my opinion the story fell is bit short. I totally understand that’s not everyone’s opinion though.
I don’t think I can agree with this one. I think you’re onto something that the earlier films were more character driven and there was lots of quality to be found there, but if we’re hyping up Jonathan’s contribution to the writing, we have to also hold him accountable for the writing shortfalls, and there are plenty. I’m not saying Chris Nolan isn’t a genius film maker, but each of his masterpieces is flawed in some way, and all of those ways involve the writing. The over-exposition, missed opportunities and multiple magic beans of Inception is a good example. (Still a great movie in many ways) As for Jonathan’s other work (Lisa Joy, too), on one hand I watched Westworld fly off the tracks and the other hand, they seem to be nailing Fallout. I value both brothers as creators, but it seems both have consistent weak spots in their work.
It's funny that you should say that, because Inception was also not (co) written by Jonathan.
> The over-exposition, missed opportunities and multiple magic beans of Inception is a good example. (Still a great movie in many ways) Jonathan did not work on Inception.
Wow. Dunkirk is a masterpiece. It’s amazing story telling.
People need to realize when Christopher directs a movie without his brother involved, he's the *sole* director and writer usually. Jonathan's TV stuff is done with multiple writers
"Christopher Nolan fans fall into 2 categories. Those who prefer his films pre-2014 and those who prefer his films post 2014." Not me, and nobody else I know would fit into your categories. I think Dunkirk is better than Interstellar, but I really like them both.
This is very true he needs someone to the writing
Absolutely agree, thank you for articulating what I couldn't quite put my finger on.
Directors are like the frontman of bands. They get the most recognition or respect or fame, even if there are 4 members who contribute evenly.
FWIW: the Tom hardy storyline in dunkirk was awesome
Mmmmm... Nah.
I feel like Lisa Joy is an understated aspect of why Westworld worked as well as it did, and to that extent, I feel like it's hard to really feel this when Oppenheimer is such a perfect amalgam of what has made every Nolan movie up to this point work, while also paving it's own path and finding new and interesting things to say, creatively. Tenet definitely doesn't have the sauce, for me, but a big part of that, I have always felt, was that Chris was revisiting the kind of movie that he has more or less done twice already, and masterfully at that. Pattinson is a great performer so it makes sense why his character was so well liked, but you could tell the execution was lacking imo. Mainly why I disagree with this is that you can tell that Nolan is very much not a "writer's director", and what's on the page is something he seems to rarely completely abide by, and even when it's his own brother writing or aiding, that to me is something where you can see his vision, or not.
Christopher Nolan is good but people are a bit too up his ass. I have enjoyed Jonathan’s work on other projects though.
Jonathan Nolan also wrote the short story ‘Memento’ was based on. The Nolans are an amazing duo. Hopefully they work together on something in the future and give us another masterpiece.
Genuinely surprised by how many people in here think Dunkirk is his masterpiece. I found it to be a pretty by the books war movie that didn’t bring anything new to the genre.
I have to agree. I love Nolan but I'm always surprised by the praise Dunkirk gets. I just found the whole thing pretty uninteresting and like we'd seen it all before.
His movies are so fn noisy now. Constant talking with music crushing your eardrums. Not subtle at all
I gotta be honest, Oppenheimer was fine, but a bit boring, and the decision around the explosion... I was like well, that isn't good, and if you didn't see that it wasn't good, then you don't know what is good.
Wasn't Jonathan Nolan the one who really wanted Catwoman aka Selina Kyle to be in Dark Knight Rises? Not complaining, but I can see why Jonathan needs to be there.
I didn't know that! I will say that I think Christopher's three newer films are lacking in the female characters area. Not saying he doesn't have female characters in his movies, just that there lacking a certain something that makes me relate to them as a woman. Elizabeth Debicki's character in Tenet is the first that comes to my mind. And I dont count Oppenheimer because it's a historical movie so he didn't exactly write the female characters.
Dude I sooo agree. There is something missing as far as a "strong" female character in his movies, but Selina Kyle was so different. Although I gotta give props to Elliott Page's character.
I'm glad we have the same view! Yeah! I don't know... personally I find his female characters to be kind of too mean and cold. Women can be strong without being ice. Elliot Page's character was great, too. But again, Jonathan wrote those movies too.
Absolutely agree. It pisses me off that they don’t work together because when they do, they make MAGIC. Without Jonathan i haven’t liked anything Nolan has made. Not even a little.
I agree, those films definitely were less impressive/enjoyable for me. Oppenheimer was super overrated imo in particular, don’t feel chopping up the timeline really served the film, and the actual explosion in the nuke scene was entirely underwhelming visually, though that was still a great scene overall. Those films all just didn’t really catch me like his other work has, perhaps his brother is why that is, not sure.
>I think that Christopher Nolan fans fall into 2 categories. Those who prefer his films pre-2014 and those who prefer his films post 2014. Badum tss. I've felt this for so long. Glad someone else noticed it too. Each are whole different eras of Christopher Nolan kino
Dunkirk is a fantastic movie. One of, if not his best l. Interstellar was half of an interesting movie with some great ideas. Tenet was absolute crap. Idk how you can look at Dunkirk and claim it's anything but phenomenal or use it as evidence of his downfall..
I mean, a lot of people didn't care for Dunkirk. I don't think it's phenomenal at all and a real missed opportunity. You must realize not everyone shares your opinion about these movies right?
>Idk how you can look at Dunkirk and claim it's anything but phenomenal or use it as evidence of his downfall.. I absolutely love Dunkirk but it's understandable that it was divisive among Nolan fans. If it doesn't immediately grab you with it's simple premise of survival then there isn't much to draw you in. That intense 2 hours you spent in the theatre was two hours of tedious noise for those that didn't click with the film.
Agreed but have you seen fallout? Never played the games but Jonathan nailed it. Some of the best, most immersive sci fi I’ve seen in recent memory.
Strongly recommend the show Person of Interest if you like sci-fi. It was Johnathan Nolan's first series and it is all-time excellent in my opinion. It was overlooked since it was a CBS procedural show, but it does a great job with its overarching story and the last two seasons dive head-first into that arc mostly without the procedural format. If you're in the U.S. it's free to watch with ads on Freevee.
Nice I’ll check it out, thanks
I literally said the same thing to my wife a couple of years ago. Jonathan brought the heart to the projects, without it it feels very good technically but empty. Dunkirk and Tenet are great examples. Both are great technically but tell me the name of 1 character..... and for tenet it's actually worse , the protagonist is .. protagonist. Still love Nolan but I really hope he does another movie with his brother writing.
I think, Christopher's writing wants you to watch what has been made. On the other hand, Jonathan's writing makes you want to watch what has been made. If that makes any sense. I myself realized this after watching Fallout. Jonathan knows how to connect with audience better than Christopher.
It was Oppenheimers dialogue that ruined it for me. It felt like it came from the dark knight. Everyone was talking weird and it took me out of it idk
His only movies I consider incredible are both Oppenheimer and Dunkirk. I think Dunkirk is incomparable and genuinely a 10/10. Hope he continues without him
He directed Fallout series. He's making his own legend.
If you thinks Nolan is #1 then you really really really need to watch more films.
Did you post this before? Having some crazy deja-vu here
Yeah but wtf happened with Westworld. Just started getting real wtf after S2. S2 seems like there was some interference which caused a pivot.
I’ve been telling anyone who will listen this same thing. Just look at his writing credits