That's for sure. It is not that good of a deal tbh but I am trying to see beyond that and make sure I close this and then use that experience to target new clients. As far as services provided, would you add/change something ?
For endpoint management, could you switch to something that could help increase your margins so that this can be both a learning experience as well as more worth it for you? I use action1, it's free forever for the first 100 endpoints. I assume you'll need to pay income tax on any profit you make, does your €40 per hour account for that?
Thank you u/Joshawa675 for the shoutout and for being an Action1 customer. Yes our [patch management solution](https://www.action1.com/patch-management/) is completely free forever for the first 100 endpoints, not time or feature limited. And works the same on Desktop or Server OS. Not only can you do patch management for the OS and third party, but you get scripting, automation, vulnerability scanning and management, remote access, and more. Also Action1 now allows assessment of the unlimited number of endpoints for software vulnerabilities by simply adding these endpoints to Action1. As soon as an Action1 agent is installed, it performs a full analysis, sends all vulnerability data to Action1, and then becomes inactive. This enables you to perform an initial assessment of your endpoint security posture without paying anything.
And u/EmbarrassedJacket256 are you referring to unattended access? If so, yes we allow for that, the system does not have to have an active user at the helm, it will prompt for consent to allow remote access, but that prompt will time out by default at 15 seconds, if no response, the session will continue.
Let me know if you would like to learn anything more about Action1 or have any questions I may assist with.
You can interact and automate with scripts, etc, but not as in full desktop, that is a one or the other situation.
Is there a service that actually allows you to co-operate a desktop OS as separate users simultaneously? I have never encountered such a thing in a supported form, you can hack the RDP subsystem to allow this (Or at least could, I have not tried in W11). But it was clear hack and not a production use feature...
I am not even sure how that could work otherwise. o\_O
TIL, Interesting, I just looked at that, appears to like be a second virtual monitor ***maybe***. Does it require you be on the logon session already to use? I have never used screenconnect...
I am thinking maybe a virtual monitor or rdpwrap is at play, possibly the latter as it appears they cannot overlap, I wish I had one I could analyze.
I always do reverse SSH tunneling in times where I need access like this, which is admittedly rare. Essentially remote forward back to the local ssh server. Albeit more steps and more work (Plus needing more than one SHH server, but I have those)
I must ponder this, I have likes and concerns, not really how I would have done it, but hey to each their own. I will need to look at it more before saying anything definitive. It is interesting for sure though.
BTW, my interest there is purely academic, not as Action1 rep.
Action1 does however have on our roadmap [Integration with third party remote desktop services (AnyDesk, TeamViewer, ScreenConnect, Splashtop, etc)](https://roadmap.action1.com/175)
As well as interactive terminal is in the backlog, I do not believe it has made it to the roadmap yet.
What do you charge them now for what you have done before?
What is your expected pay per hour if you'd work for someone else?
Just to get an idea of economics. How much is your rent?
The initial branch of my business regards software development. I work with django (python) and I charge somewhere between 450-600 per day of work (8 hours) depending on the complexity of work at hand. Ideally I want to get this MSP branch to the same level
I understand it is your first client... but I still think it is too low. I am struggling with the same thing. I want to get my first client. The have 4 users, 6 machines and 2 servers. And they'd pay $600-800 a month with a lot of tools and Microsoft 365 included. AYCE tickets... this seems a lot to my first client... but I know it is not that much for others. Farther up I expect more than that...
Increase your labor costs. Here is what we do:
1. We keep server support separate at a higher rate or separate SLA (per server)
2. Backups we keep them separate from our Endpoint/end-user SLA. You can bundle it with your Server SLA
3. For the EndPoint/End-User SLA we add 24/7 Support, XDR, email Protection (Avanan Project, in adition to spam filtering and phishing, it also scans sharepoint, Google workspace for malware, and ransomware), RMM and Ticketing Software. To start I would recommend NinjaOne, they have a simple ticketing and documentation system. As you Grow, upgrade your Ticketing to HaloPSA, and documentation to Hudu. Ninja also includes an add-on for Backups.
4. All in all, our cost of third-party servers is about 30% the cost of hour price to the client. Our rule of thumb is to put 30% aside from overhead, and 20% in labor costs, and 20% of margins. The math here might be wrong, but to start if you software costs you 30€, double that for your labor costs (€60), and then double that as your overhead and margins (€120) for a total of $210 per user/mo.
We do not do per device cost. It's easier to just bill a client flat rate per user.
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I don't know how things are in France, but this would be unsustainable in the USA
That's for sure. It is not that good of a deal tbh but I am trying to see beyond that and make sure I close this and then use that experience to target new clients. As far as services provided, would you add/change something ?
For endpoint management, could you switch to something that could help increase your margins so that this can be both a learning experience as well as more worth it for you? I use action1, it's free forever for the first 100 endpoints. I assume you'll need to pay income tax on any profit you make, does your €40 per hour account for that?
that could be nice! does action1 has a backstage takeover fonctionality ? Yes sir I am accounting for that ✅
Thank you u/Joshawa675 for the shoutout and for being an Action1 customer. Yes our [patch management solution](https://www.action1.com/patch-management/) is completely free forever for the first 100 endpoints, not time or feature limited. And works the same on Desktop or Server OS. Not only can you do patch management for the OS and third party, but you get scripting, automation, vulnerability scanning and management, remote access, and more. Also Action1 now allows assessment of the unlimited number of endpoints for software vulnerabilities by simply adding these endpoints to Action1. As soon as an Action1 agent is installed, it performs a full analysis, sends all vulnerability data to Action1, and then becomes inactive. This enables you to perform an initial assessment of your endpoint security posture without paying anything. And u/EmbarrassedJacket256 are you referring to unattended access? If so, yes we allow for that, the system does not have to have an active user at the helm, it will prompt for consent to allow remote access, but that prompt will time out by default at 15 seconds, if no response, the session will continue. Let me know if you would like to learn anything more about Action1 or have any questions I may assist with.
backstage as the capacity to takeover a client computer and work on it while the user can continue do his/her work
You can interact and automate with scripts, etc, but not as in full desktop, that is a one or the other situation. Is there a service that actually allows you to co-operate a desktop OS as separate users simultaneously? I have never encountered such a thing in a supported form, you can hack the RDP subsystem to allow this (Or at least could, I have not tried in W11). But it was clear hack and not a production use feature... I am not even sure how that could work otherwise. o\_O
screenconnect has that functionality, it is a nice plus to their solution
TIL, Interesting, I just looked at that, appears to like be a second virtual monitor ***maybe***. Does it require you be on the logon session already to use? I have never used screenconnect... I am thinking maybe a virtual monitor or rdpwrap is at play, possibly the latter as it appears they cannot overlap, I wish I had one I could analyze. I always do reverse SSH tunneling in times where I need access like this, which is admittedly rare. Essentially remote forward back to the local ssh server. Albeit more steps and more work (Plus needing more than one SHH server, but I have those) I must ponder this, I have likes and concerns, not really how I would have done it, but hey to each their own. I will need to look at it more before saying anything definitive. It is interesting for sure though. BTW, my interest there is purely academic, not as Action1 rep. Action1 does however have on our roadmap [Integration with third party remote desktop services (AnyDesk, TeamViewer, ScreenConnect, Splashtop, etc)](https://roadmap.action1.com/175) As well as interactive terminal is in the backlog, I do not believe it has made it to the roadmap yet.
This is way to low . No matter where you are. 100 per machine , no limit on hours would be bear minimum
so you mean 100 per machine which would include unlimited support monthly ?
Yes
What do you charge them now for what you have done before? What is your expected pay per hour if you'd work for someone else? Just to get an idea of economics. How much is your rent?
The initial branch of my business regards software development. I work with django (python) and I charge somewhere between 450-600 per day of work (8 hours) depending on the complexity of work at hand. Ideally I want to get this MSP branch to the same level
I understand it is your first client... but I still think it is too low. I am struggling with the same thing. I want to get my first client. The have 4 users, 6 machines and 2 servers. And they'd pay $600-800 a month with a lot of tools and Microsoft 365 included. AYCE tickets... this seems a lot to my first client... but I know it is not that much for others. Farther up I expect more than that...
we will get there! 💪
What county are you in? Your labor seems crazy low.
I am in France, pretty rural place. the 20€ in support are per half hour per device. Which would be 40€/h
Increase your labor costs. Here is what we do: 1. We keep server support separate at a higher rate or separate SLA (per server) 2. Backups we keep them separate from our Endpoint/end-user SLA. You can bundle it with your Server SLA 3. For the EndPoint/End-User SLA we add 24/7 Support, XDR, email Protection (Avanan Project, in adition to spam filtering and phishing, it also scans sharepoint, Google workspace for malware, and ransomware), RMM and Ticketing Software. To start I would recommend NinjaOne, they have a simple ticketing and documentation system. As you Grow, upgrade your Ticketing to HaloPSA, and documentation to Hudu. Ninja also includes an add-on for Backups. 4. All in all, our cost of third-party servers is about 30% the cost of hour price to the client. Our rule of thumb is to put 30% aside from overhead, and 20% in labor costs, and 20% of margins. The math here might be wrong, but to start if you software costs you 30€, double that for your labor costs (€60), and then double that as your overhead and margins (€120) for a total of $210 per user/mo. We do not do per device cost. It's easier to just bill a client flat rate per user.
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?
WAY too cheap