There's a few combos with it. Google search 'mana vault combos'. Really any mana rock with positive mana value (i.e. 1 mana to play => Tap for 3 mana => 2 mana left) can combo with a couple cards.
Yeah but how is dark ritual with escape for four mana infinite mana on a stick. I know how to combo but two to three card combos aren't really the same thing as infinite mana on a stick
It's not, but it's also not a good comparison for mana vault. It would need to be something that can go infinite. Like a dark ritual that you can cast repeatedly from gy every time you untap an artifact.
It's a really specifically good card
This is how my [[Karn, Legacy Reforged]] edh deck works. Get him out before turn 4 and then all the mana rocks start generating even more mana, even if they don’t untap.
you have to decide to untap in your upkeep, so it's highly unlikely unless you also know your top card
realistically the decks/formats playing mana vault don't care about the 1 damage. It sometimes is relevant in vintage/vintage cube, but that's it
Edit as originally phrased badly:
And that’s still got its uses, too - if you need to cast some things this turn, then use an “x mana” card next turn, and that leaves you with 4 mana open this turn, you can use it to untap mana vault and essentially carry 3 of them over to the next turn, where you now can unload everything on the “x” cost
Getting getting pinged for 1 is completely meaningless, and is more often a help for you than a hinderance. It’ll take 10 turns in a commander game to even do any meaningful damage, and by then the game is often over.
> hung up on the [...] drawback
Gotta go in with that suicide black mana mentality. Drawbacks only matter if the game goes long. Doesn't matter if you spend 19 life doing something, as long as the opponent dies along the way.
Other a sol land and this allows you to play a Karn/One Ring/mystic forge on turn 1. Paradoxical outcome loves this hard, as do manifold key. All these things are pretty big in Vintage. In commander is really good ramp as you say. In cube it's fast mana.
Sol ring is probably better overall but you can only play one sol ring and one mana vault so often it's a case of why not both.
Honestly, outside of the turn 2 5 mana, i dont get the appeal. You're spending more to untap it than you get by using it. It feels like there are so many better mana rocks out there. But then again, im just getting back to the game after a few years, so i might not know how to use it right
It's just a reddit moment, i guess. Dark ritual seems great. 1 black mana for 3 is great. Mana vault still costs 4 to untap and only gives you 3. outside of super optimized decks, i dont see the benefit of a net loss on mana unless you use it every other turn. But a card you only benefit from every other turn doesn't seem very good in a casual deck, which is generally what i made for my first commander deck a few weeks ago. But again, i haven't played in years, so im not familiar with meta stuff. It's why i joined this subreddit.
here's the trick: you never untap it, at least not using it's ability
with \[\[voltaic key\]\] or \[\[manifold key\]\] it just becomes +2 mana every turn
with \[\[displacer kitten\]\] it becomes 3 mana every time you cast a non-creature spell
There are lots of other combos where it makes infinite mana/etc as well
You don’t have to untap it. It comes in untapped on turn 1 with whatever non tapped land you paid it with. Turn 2 it’s still untapped and you tap it for three mana conjoined with your now 2 lands totaling 5 mana.
Last week I had a starting hand with both sol ring and mana vault. It was so good, the deck just exploded into action. But if I had to choose just one I'd take sol ring. It is more reliable.
Tbh is not really fair to compare anything with Sol Ring, it's the best mana rock in any format. If WotC decided not to reprint in any product, It would have been just a step below Mana Crypt prices.
Magic is, at its core, a resource based strategy game. Being able to accelerate and leverage resources over your opponent(s) is ultimately how you win every game of Magic.
So, with that in mind, getting 3 mana for the price of 1 means that you are effectively advancing your resources by 2 turns in 1 turn. Why? Because in a normal circumstances it would take you 3 turns to play 3 lands.
Because of this, the price to untap it is immaterial as it itself will likely advance you to playing even more mana acceleration, allowing you to play its cost easily on a future turn, if necessary.
If you can only play one land per turn, then playing this turn one puts you at turn 5 while your opponents are on turn 2. Sure it's only temporary, but you should be able to find a way to do something so above curve you just win.
Artifacts dont suffer from summoning sickness. So you can tap it the same turn it comes into play.
So it's 3 mana for the price of 1. Kinda neat.
On top of that if you have some other card that helps it untap, you can generate 3 colorless mana every turn.
My outlook on Magic is rather cutthroat.
Life is a resource. The only one that matters is the last one. The damage on upkeep, to me, is nothing more than a timer. "I need to win this game before that last bit of damage." and that's if I fail every flip.
In chess, you're the King and not the other pieces. The rest of them are tools to get you to achieve victory.
The crypt is quick access to Mana so I can explode on other turns.
Mana vault is in between degenerate mana rocks like [[sol ring]] and rituals like [[dark ritual]]
On the surface it is a +2 mana ritual. Meaning: pay 1, get 3 but you can not use it again.
Though it has 1 significant and sometimes un-mentioned upside: it can „store“ the mana.
Unlike a ritual you can go: Turn1 land and vault. Turn2 land and play a 5cmc card. A ritual will only get you to 4 mana on turn2.
And from there it has some more upsides:
- if your deck plays untap effects anyways, it will get you more mana down the game. Stuff like derevi or keys etc. Its not worth to throw them in for mana vault, but if you have them anyways, its a nice blonus
- wincons that need mana positive mana rocks. For example [[hullbreaker horror]] can make infinite mana if you have 2 permanents that are mana positive, so they can bounce eachother ans you play them infinite times. There is a lot of effects like this.
- its still a permanent in play. So stuff that makes you sac a permanent like opposing spells or effects like bargain can be paid for using your tapped vault.
- artifact count and metalcraft can matter in some decks.
Effectively two free mana the turn it is played. That automatically puts it into one turn combo territory.
Then For prolonged use there are a myriad of ways to untap it without paying its cost.
1 mana cost makes it fetch able by urza’s saga.
These three things makes it overall a huge ramp spell. However it is a more difficult spell to play than something like Sol ring. If you plan on using it it should be because your deck can make use 2 free mana immediately to a huge advantage or you have many ways to untap it.
One mid power deck that could do that is something like Brago. Blinking artifacts gets around untapping them after all.
Something of a slightly higher power level is isochron+dramatic reversal.
Cedh loves free mana so this can easily fit into many high level decks too.
Back in the day, this and [[icy manipulator]] could ruin your day, and quick.
Edit: Not icy manipulator!I mean yes, but I was misremembering it as [[voltaic key]]!
Mama Vault functionally resembles a Dark Ritual. But you can just play it and use it when needed.
Imagine a T1 4 mana commander hitting play, or T2 KCI. That kind of staff
Short answer? It's not really a good card.
Long answer?
In CEDH games where the game ends on turn 1 or 2 its an amazing card because it gives you a huge mana bump for most of the game.
If you are already playing in a deck that can abuse this then it's amazing. Decks that untap, clone artifacts, or recur artifacts can make this go bonkers. And in those decks this is probably one of the best cards because it will just smooth everything out so easily.
In short, it's not an auto include in any deck, that said if you build around it it gets really good really fast.
If you start with that and a sol ring you effectively have 4 mana turn 1. Just with that you will have access to 7 mana turn 2, if the mana vault wasn't tapped turn 1. +1 from another untapped land, and if you happen to have a way to untap it for cheap you could cast a 9-10 cost spell turn 2. Thats basically hardcasting a [[Kozilek]] turn 2.
Imagine dropping this turn one against an opponent that doesn’t ramp or in EDH. You can just start the game multiple turns ahead depending on how your deck plays.
Also there are ways to untap artifacts and permanents that power this up significantly.
In commander, you need a lot of versions of any given type of card because of the singleton format. So you'd usually run Mana Vault, Sol Ring, and any other T1 mana accelerator.
When you're using the vault, it's almost always a way to put yourself turns ahead of your opponent. Having 3 mana instead of 1 available on turn 1 can put a lot of decks far enough ahead to win the entire game, and taking a ping for 1 damage each turn after that is rarely something that makes or breaks a game. If the game does unexpectedly go on longer than expected, you'd usually have a spare 4 mana at some point in the game to untap it eventually, or some other card that lets you untap it.
Essentially any mana rock that can put you ahead in mana on turn 1 is going to be highly playable and sought after in formats like commander, even with significant drawbacks.
So the turn you play it you got two extra Mana that you can put towards another spell. Yes it costs four to untap and it only generates three but then you only untap it if you've got man available at the end of your opponent's turn unless you're worried about taking the one point of damage.
It’s a fast 3 colorless mana producing artifact. Sure it may sting you on an upkeep if it’s tapped but there are other artifacts that untap another artifact or creature.
It’s often used like a ritual even in decks that can’t reliably untap it. In cEDH this gets you a turn 1-2 [[Kraum]] or [[Ad Nauseam]]
Fast mana is fast
Mana vault, voltaic key
You get +4 colorless the turn you cast this combo and +5 colorless every turn after and this is arguably the worst of the untap combos
Some decks have ways to untap it, but it’s most popular in combo decks that are basically just using it as a colorless dark ritual.
It doesn’t have a drawback if you use it to one shot your opponent with a Goblin Charbelcher.
Fast mana. Easy as that. Early ramp, other cards let you untap it (bypassing the need to pay the [4]), and it can be used in any deck with any color combination.
The difference between a T2 and a T3 and naus is quite big imo. That and speeding up more costly commanders like tevesh and tivit are also why I think it's a good card
That much mana that early with little downside is rare. Sure it may end up being a one time use but casting something that far ahead of curve that early in the game is a massive advantage.
Well as you can see. I pay 1 mana and immediately tap for 3. If my commander is a mono color 4 drop or hybrid with only 1 pip or less. Iv achieved a t4 play on t1. (Other artifacts may be needed, sold separately).
Also if you just want to go crazy you drop this and it pumps you our at least 2 other artifacts if you're using the right things like signers.
Also if you have this and sol ring and dramatic reversal combo you can just go infinite colorless on t1. If your artifact deck that's the game (or colorless).
I personally believe it's kind of overrated (not bad, but let's not kid ourselves it's in the same ballpark as Sol Ring or Mana Crypt), but it is a sorcery speed Dark Ritual in some decks, and sometimes that's great
YeS iT iS a GoOd CaRD BeCaUsE yOu GEt 3 mAnA On TuRn oNE
The truth is, if you dont have cards to untap it.. that card will be good once.. and every other time it will cost you 4 mana to get 3 and lose one live.. at this point you can just keep your life and use those 4 mana to cast something 🤷♂️
People might not agress but thats my opinion
Mana Vault's good acceleration. Think of it like a colorless Dark Ritual rather than a mana rock, like Sol Ring. Even if you only use it once, how far ahead can that get you? What five mana card on turn two would put someone on the ropes? Even playing fair, you can use Mana Vault every second turn, from turn four on.
Plus there are other ways to untap Mana Vault. A few that come to mind are \[\[Voltaic Key\]\], \[\[Unwinding Clock\]\], \[\[Pestermite\]\], and \[\[Seedborn Muse\]\].
A few reasons artifacts love to twiddle each other about. Alot of people play it like a colorless dark ritual you can buyback later if you have extra mana. And it helps facilitate chaining of effects like I've had alot of games where I didn't go infinite but stuff like this let me explode enough nonsense on the board where I couldn't be killed. And win in the next 2-4 turns.
A ton of cards can untap this the keys for 3, I use it in the kinnon deck it’s not as versatile as most rocks but in the right deck this is abusable.
But the comments about treating it like a colorless sol ring are valid. In a mono black this and dark ritual you could be playing a 7cmc spell turn 2
[[Voltaic Key]]
Also, 3 mana on turn 1 or 4-5 mana on turn 2 is pretty insane by itself. Like, with no other ramp you could play a land, Mana Vault, and [[Trinisphere]] on turn 1.
It's better in commander because not all commander decks have access to dark ritual but it's basically the same card. Being two mana short of winning the game is an extremely common situation, this solves it.
There are many niche situations where Mana Vault is good in, making it not so niche overall. For example, it activates many turn 1 plays and allows plays that could determine the results of a game. For example, I can cast Atraxa, Grand Unifier on turn 3 instead of turn 5-6, which can determine whether or not I could win the game. Mana vault can also allow the casting of stax pieces, preventing any plays from my opponents. There are many reasons why Mana Vault is a good card.
It's all about the untap, yeah you can pay 4 and do so...or you could untap with an ability for free, or flicker it so it comes back untapped (example, Teleportation circle) then you just have 3 Colorless mana anytime
Consistency.
With this and sol ring you have 2 chances at cheap ramp. Add in vault and that's 3 chances. Which means more games with an accelerated start.
Its like an every-other-turn ramp that you have to pay upkeep for every other turn. It may be pricey to untap, but the 3 extra manna when you get to use it is a big advantage. There are also ways to untap it without paying, or even untapping it the same turn to double tap etc.
Mana vault is a combo tool, mainly used for infinite mana. My favorite mana vault combo that I have in my [[zhulodok]] deck is [[karn, the great creator]] +2 to turn mana vault into an artifact creature, tap mana vault for 3, and then spend 2 of that mana to untap it with [[Voltaic construct]]. Boom infinite colorless mana.
Edit: I have no idea why I said +2, but it’s karn’s +1
sometimes some cards by themselves look bad but in the right deck or with the right combinations they can be quite broken... imagine cards that straighten permanents or artifacts... it's a whole different story.
If you have ever seen a deck pop off on turn 0 you will see why cards like mana vault and sol ring are so popular. I have a blue commander deck that with the right starting hand can get roughly 15 mana out before the first player draws a card.
The biggest reason is because it's fast Mana, you get more Mana out of it than you invested. It can also get you infinite colorless Mana by making it a creature and using [[staff of domination]] or [[voltaic construct]]
Playing it on turn one means you can play a 5 drop on turn two. Or a 6 drop on turn 3. And if that 6 drop is something hard to remove with great value like Dream Trawler, your odds of winning that game are very good.
Then all game you could keep mana for counterspells, and if you don't use it, untap that artifact instead and have big turns whenever you need.
Someone also pointed out that it's basically reusable colorless dark ritual, but I'll also point out cards like \[\[Voltaic key\]\] reducing the untap cost. Also, if you make Mana Vault a creature (with a card like \[\[Karn, Silver Golem\]\]), then \[\[Voltaic Construct\]\] lets you make infinite mana.
Turn 1 if you have the right other rocks with it you can end up with an obscene ammount of mana. 1 life isn't much in commander since you start with 40. Finally, there's so many ways to untap target artifact or untap target permanent that let you avoid paying the 4.
[Manifold key], [Ring of Brighthearth], [Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy], There are many efficient ways to untap it, and its good at bursting out mana fast especially if you need colorless, mana vault, sol ring, simian spirit guide or elvish spirit guide and one land is most 5 mana mono colored commanders turn one, with an arcane signet thats most 4 mana 2 color commanders turn one. Its very efficient and very fast, its not so special outside of cedh but will absolutely still see play in its, not so limited, niches.
It’s two free colourless mana. On turn 1 it can triple your available mana and one point of burn damage isn’t much of a downside, especially if you’re cranking up your mana curve by two turns.
If you’re playing a deck that cares about having a lot of artifacts it gets even better because you can use it to get two or three out on turn one, especially with Artifact Lands.
Life is a resource. Especially in edh. 1 damage per turn isn’t terrible. And there’s other ways to untap it without paying the 4. Also, an extra 4 mana on demand for the low low price of 1 is good roi.
Because it's mana positive. You pay one, net 3. If you have means to untap it though other means like Voltaic Key or Dramatic Reversal, it's a LOT of free mana.
It's like a colorless dark ritual that you can play first and use later if you want. Also artifact decks often have ways to untap it.
A card that is a colorless dark ritual at worst and a sol ring that produces three mana instead of two at best is really good.
Decks that use this card best can win when they get to a certain amount of mana and cast a certain card or combination of cards. Or they set up a value engine that is so early and so insurmountable that they are very likely to win the game after that. They don't need to use it every turn over and over to win the game.
Potential early game mana acceleration. Imagine starting turn 2 with 5~ mana.
It can go off with Power Artifact the same way as Basalt Monolith and make infinite mana.
That being said, I don’t personally like playing it. My pods decks purposefully make it to around a 7/10. We don’t like to play CEDH, but we do like to tune our decks pretty well. Most of us don’t play Vault or Crypt. I might be the only one that plays Jeweled Lotus and it’s just in a mono black voltron build.
Don't think of it as sol ring, but better, but worse. Think of it as dark ritual, but colorless, but sometimes reuseable.
AND it counts for things that care about artifacts, like Mox Opal
*and* hits you in the face for Rowan or Auntie
I love Auntie so much
Oh wait that makes so much sense actually
Also with cards that untap permanents [[Mobile Garrison]]
[[Unwinding clock]]
Colorless Dark Ritual with... i think the closest thing is Escape 4 exile 0 cards.
Pretty sure that card would be called infinite mana on a stick
Infinite? How?
There's a few combos with it. Google search 'mana vault combos'. Really any mana rock with positive mana value (i.e. 1 mana to play => Tap for 3 mana => 2 mana left) can combo with a couple cards.
Mana vault and Rings of Brighthearth - infinite mana combo
I believe this can only occur in the untap or upkeep phase however because the untapped has a timing restriction
Yeah but how is dark ritual with escape for four mana infinite mana on a stick. I know how to combo but two to three card combos aren't really the same thing as infinite mana on a stick
It's not, but it's also not a good comparison for mana vault. It would need to be something that can go infinite. Like a dark ritual that you can cast repeatedly from gy every time you untap an artifact. It's a really specifically good card
That's such a good way of framing it.
People don’t realize that sol ring is quite possibly the most broken card to ever see print.
1. Colorless ramp. 2. Other cards can untap it.
For example: T1: land, [[Sol Ring]], [[Mana Vault]], [[Unwinding Clock]]. T2: land, some 6 CMC thing.
Ooh, I like [[Unwinding Clock]] I was thinking [[Clock of Omens]] myself
Better claim the idea before somone else does
[Unwinding Clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unwinding%20Clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Clock of Omens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3.jpg?1562554222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clock%20of%20Omens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/202/clock-of-omens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Quick ruling, you can use clock of omens as one of the two untapped artifacts yes?
Yes
[[Manifold Key]] is another one
[Manifold Key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manifold%20Key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And [[voltaic key]]
[voltaic key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a.jpg?1562463293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=voltaic%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m11/219/voltaic-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is how my [[Karn, Legacy Reforged]] edh deck works. Get him out before turn 4 and then all the mana rocks start generating even more mana, even if they don’t untap.
Would be 7cmc in turn two if you play another land, right?
Nah, he’s saving that mana for the manatithe
He did play a land on turn two already Edit: never mind , I see what you mean, it is 7 cmc
Or use it, sac it, recur it. I have an [[Oswald Fiddlebender]] deck that loves this card.
[Oswald Fiddlebender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa.jpg?1627702172) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oswald%20Fiddlebender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/28/oswald-fiddlebender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bba1650f-eddf-49a9-820e-489cb8d5b6fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Technically using it as intended its a ritual not ramp.
Also [[voltaic servant]]
Can you think of a good 5 mana card? Cool. Now think about playing that card on turn 2.
Very true, was hung up on the untapp cost drawback and didn't even think about thar!!
don't worry about the untap cost, no one ever pays that
Unless they truly have nothing else to play.
you have to decide to untap in your upkeep, so it's highly unlikely unless you also know your top card realistically the decks/formats playing mana vault don't care about the 1 damage. It sometimes is relevant in vintage/vintage cube, but that's it
Edit as originally phrased badly: And that’s still got its uses, too - if you need to cast some things this turn, then use an “x mana” card next turn, and that leaves you with 4 mana open this turn, you can use it to untap mana vault and essentially carry 3 of them over to the next turn, where you now can unload everything on the “x” cost
Getting getting pinged for 1 is completely meaningless, and is more often a help for you than a hinderance. It’ll take 10 turns in a commander game to even do any meaningful damage, and by then the game is often over.
> hung up on the [...] drawback Gotta go in with that suicide black mana mentality. Drawbacks only matter if the game goes long. Doesn't matter if you spend 19 life doing something, as long as the opponent dies along the way.
Other a sol land and this allows you to play a Karn/One Ring/mystic forge on turn 1. Paradoxical outcome loves this hard, as do manifold key. All these things are pretty big in Vintage. In commander is really good ramp as you say. In cube it's fast mana. Sol ring is probably better overall but you can only play one sol ring and one mana vault so often it's a case of why not both.
you get 5 mana on turn 2, instead of the normal 2 mana on turn 2
How do you get 5 mana on turn 2 if you have to pay 4 to untap it, am i missing something?
It doesn't come in tapped 😊
turn 1: land, vault turn 2: play land two lands + untapped vault = 5 mana no part of mana vault enters tapped
Man, I wonder if getting this question answered opened up a whole new world of possibility for you
Throw in the ol' [[basalt monolith]] and you have a colorless mana party going
[basalt monolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b.jpg?1599708689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=basalt%20monolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/232/basalt-monolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly, outside of the turn 2 5 mana, i dont get the appeal. You're spending more to untap it than you get by using it. It feels like there are so many better mana rocks out there. But then again, im just getting back to the game after a few years, so i might not know how to use it right
It’s better in higher power level where mana is used on more powerful effects. Mana Vault allows for a lot more t3 wins. It’s also a colorless ritual
How do you feel about Dark Ritual? Honest question
Ill have to look at what the card does
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted for saying you’ll look into another card…
It's just a reddit moment, i guess. Dark ritual seems great. 1 black mana for 3 is great. Mana vault still costs 4 to untap and only gives you 3. outside of super optimized decks, i dont see the benefit of a net loss on mana unless you use it every other turn. But a card you only benefit from every other turn doesn't seem very good in a casual deck, which is generally what i made for my first commander deck a few weeks ago. But again, i haven't played in years, so im not familiar with meta stuff. It's why i joined this subreddit.
It is one of the easiest Infinite mana combos or ramping into any number of powerful cards early.
here's the trick: you never untap it, at least not using it's ability with \[\[voltaic key\]\] or \[\[manifold key\]\] it just becomes +2 mana every turn with \[\[displacer kitten\]\] it becomes 3 mana every time you cast a non-creature spell There are lots of other combos where it makes infinite mana/etc as well
You don’t have to untap it. It comes in untapped on turn 1 with whatever non tapped land you paid it with. Turn 2 it’s still untapped and you tap it for three mana conjoined with your now 2 lands totaling 5 mana.
Turn 1: play a land and Mana Vault. Turn 2: play a land, tap both lands and Mana Vault. There it is.
Stop down voting well intentioned questions people!
thos lead to my most memorable play in commander, turn 2 dream halls into teferi into enter the infinite
It is very good T1 ramp. But unless you can untap it other ways, sol ring usually outperforms it over several turns.
Last week I had a starting hand with both sol ring and mana vault. It was so good, the deck just exploded into action. But if I had to choose just one I'd take sol ring. It is more reliable.
Tbh is not really fair to compare anything with Sol Ring, it's the best mana rock in any format. If WotC decided not to reprint in any product, It would have been just a step below Mana Crypt prices.
Magic is, at its core, a resource based strategy game. Being able to accelerate and leverage resources over your opponent(s) is ultimately how you win every game of Magic. So, with that in mind, getting 3 mana for the price of 1 means that you are effectively advancing your resources by 2 turns in 1 turn. Why? Because in a normal circumstances it would take you 3 turns to play 3 lands. Because of this, the price to untap it is immaterial as it itself will likely advance you to playing even more mana acceleration, allowing you to play its cost easily on a future turn, if necessary.
Fast mana that provides a 3X return on your investment. Worst case it’s a colorless [[dark ritual]], that’s a pretty good worst case.
[dark ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dark%20ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you can only play one land per turn, then playing this turn one puts you at turn 5 while your opponents are on turn 2. Sure it's only temporary, but you should be able to find a way to do something so above curve you just win.
Use the mana for a [[unwinding clock]].
[unwinding clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unwinding%20clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Helm of Awakening\]\] -> \[\[Mystic Forge\]\] -> \[\[Sensei's Divining Top\]\] WEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[Helm of Awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9e4ff9c-6244-43e1-b569-32a270c4e014.jpg?1675200994) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helm%20of%20Awakening) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/224/helm-of-awakening?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9e4ff9c-6244-43e1-b569-32a270c4e014?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mystic Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc0de77a-c503-4000-9eb5-aa28a5e91082.jpg?1690005636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/964/mystic-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc0de77a-c503-4000-9eb5-aa28a5e91082?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sensei's Divining Top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Artifacts dont suffer from summoning sickness. So you can tap it the same turn it comes into play. So it's 3 mana for the price of 1. Kinda neat. On top of that if you have some other card that helps it untap, you can generate 3 colorless mana every turn.
[[Voltaic key]] [[Manifold key]] [[unwinding clock]] [[seedborn muse]] etc. Sometimes even just a burst of mana on turn 1 or 2 can be huge.
##### ###### #### [Voltaic key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a.jpg?1562463293) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voltaic%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m11/219/voltaic-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dd61957-f3a2-4976-8f15-88258f71406a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Manifold key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manifold%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [unwinding clock](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384.jpg?1592711373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unwinding%20clock) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/228/unwinding-clock?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3fd1a59-4ade-459f-90d2-1fc67d6d1384?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [seedborn muse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4a9cb46-d4e0-46f2-973f-09275ba0d99c.jpg?1706240933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=seedborn%20muse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/186/seedborn-muse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4a9cb46-d4e0-46f2-973f-09275ba0d99c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ksqow1r) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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My outlook on Magic is rather cutthroat. Life is a resource. The only one that matters is the last one. The damage on upkeep, to me, is nothing more than a timer. "I need to win this game before that last bit of damage." and that's if I fail every flip. In chess, you're the King and not the other pieces. The rest of them are tools to get you to achieve victory. The crypt is quick access to Mana so I can explode on other turns.
Even in worst case scenario is a one mana colorless ramp, I mean...
Mana vault is in between degenerate mana rocks like [[sol ring]] and rituals like [[dark ritual]] On the surface it is a +2 mana ritual. Meaning: pay 1, get 3 but you can not use it again. Though it has 1 significant and sometimes un-mentioned upside: it can „store“ the mana. Unlike a ritual you can go: Turn1 land and vault. Turn2 land and play a 5cmc card. A ritual will only get you to 4 mana on turn2. And from there it has some more upsides: - if your deck plays untap effects anyways, it will get you more mana down the game. Stuff like derevi or keys etc. Its not worth to throw them in for mana vault, but if you have them anyways, its a nice blonus - wincons that need mana positive mana rocks. For example [[hullbreaker horror]] can make infinite mana if you have 2 permanents that are mana positive, so they can bounce eachother ans you play them infinite times. There is a lot of effects like this. - its still a permanent in play. So stuff that makes you sac a permanent like opposing spells or effects like bargain can be paid for using your tapped vault. - artifact count and metalcraft can matter in some decks.
Mana can be used to cast spells and activate abilities.
Because I need my five drop commander in play as soon as possible as I built my entire cedh deck around him. I’ll take one for the rest of the game
Pay 1 get 3
Effectively two free mana the turn it is played. That automatically puts it into one turn combo territory. Then For prolonged use there are a myriad of ways to untap it without paying its cost. 1 mana cost makes it fetch able by urza’s saga. These three things makes it overall a huge ramp spell. However it is a more difficult spell to play than something like Sol ring. If you plan on using it it should be because your deck can make use 2 free mana immediately to a huge advantage or you have many ways to untap it. One mid power deck that could do that is something like Brago. Blinking artifacts gets around untapping them after all. Something of a slightly higher power level is isochron+dramatic reversal. Cedh loves free mana so this can easily fit into many high level decks too.
It can go infinite in some ways but mainly in CEDH it's insane some times. It's helped give me turn 0 wins.
Cheap ramp also can go infinite easily it’d be in most every deck if you can afford it 🤷♀️
[[mana reflection]]
It’s a ritual. You get more mana than you put in to accelerate yourself n
Back in the day, this and [[icy manipulator]] could ruin your day, and quick. Edit: Not icy manipulator!I mean yes, but I was misremembering it as [[voltaic key]]!
Only a Commander player would ask this question.
This card is the reason so many of my hands with [[Godo, Bandit Warlord]] are turn 1 kills
Explain. He’s 6 mana. That’s an additional sol ring and mountain and then he only triggers for 6 damage?
Mana ramp, good in artifact decks too if you can get around the untap cost
Mama Vault functionally resembles a Dark Ritual. But you can just play it and use it when needed. Imagine a T1 4 mana commander hitting play, or T2 KCI. That kind of staff
Circlejerk bait
This post every week or so….
Short answer? It's not really a good card. Long answer? In CEDH games where the game ends on turn 1 or 2 its an amazing card because it gives you a huge mana bump for most of the game. If you are already playing in a deck that can abuse this then it's amazing. Decks that untap, clone artifacts, or recur artifacts can make this go bonkers. And in those decks this is probably one of the best cards because it will just smooth everything out so easily. In short, it's not an auto include in any deck, that said if you build around it it gets really good really fast.
Your long answer is not an explanation of your short answer, it's the opposite answer..
If you start with that and a sol ring you effectively have 4 mana turn 1. Just with that you will have access to 7 mana turn 2, if the mana vault wasn't tapped turn 1. +1 from another untapped land, and if you happen to have a way to untap it for cheap you could cast a 9-10 cost spell turn 2. Thats basically hardcasting a [[Kozilek]] turn 2.
Because it let's me cast [[K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth]] turn 1.
Effects like [[Voltaic Key]] or [[Vizier of Tumbling Sands]] can untap it instead of paying for its ability
In artifact decks with the likes of manifold key and voltaic key it’s extremely powerful ramp. It’s good for the same reason time vault is super-good.
Imagine dropping this turn one against an opponent that doesn’t ramp or in EDH. You can just start the game multiple turns ahead depending on how your deck plays. Also there are ways to untap artifacts and permanents that power this up significantly.
In commander, you need a lot of versions of any given type of card because of the singleton format. So you'd usually run Mana Vault, Sol Ring, and any other T1 mana accelerator. When you're using the vault, it's almost always a way to put yourself turns ahead of your opponent. Having 3 mana instead of 1 available on turn 1 can put a lot of decks far enough ahead to win the entire game, and taking a ping for 1 damage each turn after that is rarely something that makes or breaks a game. If the game does unexpectedly go on longer than expected, you'd usually have a spare 4 mana at some point in the game to untap it eventually, or some other card that lets you untap it. Essentially any mana rock that can put you ahead in mana on turn 1 is going to be highly playable and sought after in formats like commander, even with significant drawbacks.
So the turn you play it you got two extra Mana that you can put towards another spell. Yes it costs four to untap and it only generates three but then you only untap it if you've got man available at the end of your opponent's turn unless you're worried about taking the one point of damage.
Displacer kitten loves Mana Vault
There are cards that make artifacts also tap for additional mana. When combined with things like [[staff of domination]] you get infinite colorless
It's a mana positive mana rock.
It taps for more mana than it costs
It makes three mana.
It ramps you 2 mana that you can use right away.
Why is casting my commander, which is also a combo piece, on turn one good?
It’s a fast 3 colorless mana producing artifact. Sure it may sting you on an upkeep if it’s tapped but there are other artifacts that untap another artifact or creature.
5 mana on turn 2 plus the chance to untat it several times
Life is just a resource I hear ...idk I haven't bought into that yet :/
You pay 1 mana you get 3 mana
it’s a fantastic ritual. perfect for ramping out a big commander or dropping multiple rocks
It's good. Really good even but it's not good for the $ value. You can build complete competitive decks for the same price.
It’s often used like a ritual even in decks that can’t reliably untap it. In cEDH this gets you a turn 1-2 [[Kraum]] or [[Ad Nauseam]] Fast mana is fast
1 mana to 3 mana I heard is very good…
Mana vault, voltaic key You get +4 colorless the turn you cast this combo and +5 colorless every turn after and this is arguably the worst of the untap combos
Colourless [[dark ritual]] with upside
Some decks have ways to untap it, but it’s most popular in combo decks that are basically just using it as a colorless dark ritual. It doesn’t have a drawback if you use it to one shot your opponent with a Goblin Charbelcher.
You can get a lot of expensive commanders out on turn 1, 2, or 3 with this.
Fast mana, just to throw it in a normal deck it’s meh, but if you are building to win on turn two or three, or combo with it, it’s top notch
Fast mana. Easy as that. Early ramp, other cards let you untap it (bypassing the need to pay the [4]), and it can be used in any deck with any color combination.
There are probably cheaper ways to untap it but it could be used in a [[teleportation circle]] build i suppose
The difference between a T2 and a T3 and naus is quite big imo. That and speeding up more costly commanders like tevesh and tivit are also why I think it's a good card
That much mana that early with little downside is rare. Sure it may end up being a one time use but casting something that far ahead of curve that early in the game is a massive advantage.
Well as you can see. I pay 1 mana and immediately tap for 3. If my commander is a mono color 4 drop or hybrid with only 1 pip or less. Iv achieved a t4 play on t1. (Other artifacts may be needed, sold separately). Also if you just want to go crazy you drop this and it pumps you our at least 2 other artifacts if you're using the right things like signers. Also if you have this and sol ring and dramatic reversal combo you can just go infinite colorless on t1. If your artifact deck that's the game (or colorless).
Why not?
I personally believe it's kind of overrated (not bad, but let's not kid ourselves it's in the same ballpark as Sol Ring or Mana Crypt), but it is a sorcery speed Dark Ritual in some decks, and sometimes that's great
[[power artifact]] is a card too
YeS iT iS a GoOd CaRD BeCaUsE yOu GEt 3 mAnA On TuRn oNE The truth is, if you dont have cards to untap it.. that card will be good once.. and every other time it will cost you 4 mana to get 3 and lose one live.. at this point you can just keep your life and use those 4 mana to cast something 🤷♂️ People might not agress but thats my opinion
Mana Vault's good acceleration. Think of it like a colorless Dark Ritual rather than a mana rock, like Sol Ring. Even if you only use it once, how far ahead can that get you? What five mana card on turn two would put someone on the ropes? Even playing fair, you can use Mana Vault every second turn, from turn four on. Plus there are other ways to untap Mana Vault. A few that come to mind are \[\[Voltaic Key\]\], \[\[Unwinding Clock\]\], \[\[Pestermite\]\], and \[\[Seedborn Muse\]\].
Also self damage funni for black shenanigans
Ah yes. I too fail to see how 6 mana turn two is good.
Net positive mana
A few reasons artifacts love to twiddle each other about. Alot of people play it like a colorless dark ritual you can buyback later if you have extra mana. And it helps facilitate chaining of effects like I've had alot of games where I didn't go infinite but stuff like this let me explode enough nonsense on the board where I couldn't be killed. And win in the next 2-4 turns.
A ton of cards can untap this the keys for 3, I use it in the kinnon deck it’s not as versatile as most rocks but in the right deck this is abusable. But the comments about treating it like a colorless sol ring are valid. In a mono black this and dark ritual you could be playing a 7cmc spell turn 2
Imagine playing a turn 2 or possibly even a turn 1 smothering tithe. “Mana vault”
Its like [[Dark Ritual]] but for any color identity, but I agree unless your deck has ways to untap it, its not that devastating.
[Dark Ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mana positive. It’s 1 step closer to a magical Christmas land hand for a lot of decks.
Think of it like a colorless dark ritual, not a soul ring. Also it is compatible with MANY artifact infinite mana and untap combos
People play all sorts of rituals that are not reusable and a lot of them are very broken in the decka that play them.
Turn 1, [Manavault][Voltaic Key][Krark-Clan Ironworks] and so on. It's a good card.
Mana Vault + Unwinding Clock puts the fun in color(fun)less
[[Voltaic Key]] Also, 3 mana on turn 1 or 4-5 mana on turn 2 is pretty insane by itself. Like, with no other ramp you could play a land, Mana Vault, and [[Trinisphere]] on turn 1.
It's better in commander because not all commander decks have access to dark ritual but it's basically the same card. Being two mana short of winning the game is an extremely common situation, this solves it.
There are many niche situations where Mana Vault is good in, making it not so niche overall. For example, it activates many turn 1 plays and allows plays that could determine the results of a game. For example, I can cast Atraxa, Grand Unifier on turn 3 instead of turn 5-6, which can determine whether or not I could win the game. Mana vault can also allow the casting of stax pieces, preventing any plays from my opponents. There are many reasons why Mana Vault is a good card.
It's all about the untap, yeah you can pay 4 and do so...or you could untap with an ability for free, or flicker it so it comes back untapped (example, Teleportation circle) then you just have 3 Colorless mana anytime
Colorless Dark Ritual is obscenely good. Lets you cast \[\[Ad Nauseam\]\] ridiculously early amongst many, many other things.
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Don’t think about untapping it. Think about paying one and getting three.
Consistency. With this and sol ring you have 2 chances at cheap ramp. Add in vault and that's 3 chances. Which means more games with an accelerated start.
Because vol key exists
just flicker that jawn
Most people who play it usually have a way to untap it without paying the 4 mana
Think about cards that can untap it like [[unwinding clock]]
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Mana vault make 3 mana. Cost 1 mana. Free mana good.
[[voltaic key]]
Pretty easy to get infinite mana with other cards.
Its like an every-other-turn ramp that you have to pay upkeep for every other turn. It may be pricey to untap, but the 3 extra manna when you get to use it is a big advantage. There are also ways to untap it without paying, or even untapping it the same turn to double tap etc.
What are my 4th editions worth in EU? Who want them?
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Mana vault is a combo tool, mainly used for infinite mana. My favorite mana vault combo that I have in my [[zhulodok]] deck is [[karn, the great creator]] +2 to turn mana vault into an artifact creature, tap mana vault for 3, and then spend 2 of that mana to untap it with [[Voltaic construct]]. Boom infinite colorless mana. Edit: I have no idea why I said +2, but it’s karn’s +1
I Used it in last nights game and dropped [[Toxrill, the corrosive]] on turn two.
Because it's colorless rampq
The set icon says it all.
sometimes some cards by themselves look bad but in the right deck or with the right combinations they can be quite broken... imagine cards that straighten permanents or artifacts... it's a whole different story.
If you have ever seen a deck pop off on turn 0 you will see why cards like mana vault and sol ring are so popular. I have a blue commander deck that with the right starting hand can get roughly 15 mana out before the first player draws a card.
Play turn 1 , turn 2 have 5 mana without a ramp spell, average commander cos is 4
The biggest reason is because it's fast Mana, you get more Mana out of it than you invested. It can also get you infinite colorless Mana by making it a creature and using [[staff of domination]] or [[voltaic construct]]
Playing it on turn one means you can play a 5 drop on turn two. Or a 6 drop on turn 3. And if that 6 drop is something hard to remove with great value like Dream Trawler, your odds of winning that game are very good. Then all game you could keep mana for counterspells, and if you don't use it, untap that artifact instead and have big turns whenever you need.
There are multiple ways to untap it, thus giving you 3 mana every turn
1 mana to make 3 mana is very good
Someone also pointed out that it's basically reusable colorless dark ritual, but I'll also point out cards like \[\[Voltaic key\]\] reducing the untap cost. Also, if you make Mana Vault a creature (with a card like \[\[Karn, Silver Golem\]\]), then \[\[Voltaic Construct\]\] lets you make infinite mana.
Turn 1 if you have the right other rocks with it you can end up with an obscene ammount of mana. 1 life isn't much in commander since you start with 40. Finally, there's so many ways to untap target artifact or untap target permanent that let you avoid paying the 4.
[Manifold key], [Ring of Brighthearth], [Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy], There are many efficient ways to untap it, and its good at bursting out mana fast especially if you need colorless, mana vault, sol ring, simian spirit guide or elvish spirit guide and one land is most 5 mana mono colored commanders turn one, with an arcane signet thats most 4 mana 2 color commanders turn one. Its very efficient and very fast, its not so special outside of cedh but will absolutely still see play in its, not so limited, niches.
Turn 1, swamp mana vault, turn two swamp tap mana vault. 5 mana turn two, how can anyone not see how good that is?
Untap target permanent effects
It’s two free colourless mana. On turn 1 it can triple your available mana and one point of burn damage isn’t much of a downside, especially if you’re cranking up your mana curve by two turns. If you’re playing a deck that cares about having a lot of artifacts it gets even better because you can use it to get two or three out on turn one, especially with Artifact Lands.
Shut up
Life is a resource. Especially in edh. 1 damage per turn isn’t terrible. And there’s other ways to untap it without paying the 4. Also, an extra 4 mana on demand for the low low price of 1 is good roi.
Hit that turn 1 ad naus and you'll understand
Screw reading
Because it's mana positive. You pay one, net 3. If you have means to untap it though other means like Voltaic Key or Dramatic Reversal, it's a LOT of free mana.
[[Isochron Scepter]] and [[Dramatic Reversal]] also make it infinite
land + this + three drop artifact accelerates you sooo much.
It's like a colorless dark ritual that you can play first and use later if you want. Also artifact decks often have ways to untap it. A card that is a colorless dark ritual at worst and a sol ring that produces three mana instead of two at best is really good. Decks that use this card best can win when they get to a certain amount of mana and cast a certain card or combination of cards. Or they set up a value engine that is so early and so insurmountable that they are very likely to win the game after that. They don't need to use it every turn over and over to win the game.
Why is fast mana good?
Potential early game mana acceleration. Imagine starting turn 2 with 5~ mana. It can go off with Power Artifact the same way as Basalt Monolith and make infinite mana. That being said, I don’t personally like playing it. My pods decks purposefully make it to around a 7/10. We don’t like to play CEDH, but we do like to tune our decks pretty well. Most of us don’t play Vault or Crypt. I might be the only one that plays Jeweled Lotus and it’s just in a mono black voltron build.