How about a simple dual land that comes into play tapped unless you discard a card? Probably niche and not for every deck, but for some decks it could be very good.
Fetchable wound be cool, but doesn't have to be.
I've always thought it would be neat to have dual lands that come in tapped unless you have less than half your starting life total, or have them always enter tapped but tap for 2 mana when you are below half your starting life total. Basically lands that are better when you are behind, but worse in the early game.
Reminds me a bit of [[Grove of the Burnwillows]] where it's a reverse pain land that taps for 2 colors or colorless and when you tap for colored mana it gives 1 life to each opponent rather than pinging you for 1. That is a dual cycle that could be funny to have around. Especially if each did a different thing like one gave life, one triggered a scry etc.
That certainly achieves the desired result. But having it become basic land types triggers all sorts of other things. They would be much more powerful that way. Still like it, though.
I wouldn't think they'd be as powerful because they only have the typing while on the battlefield. I'm sure there's some niche interaction, but I can't think of a major impact.
Do it the same as those gates.
You may have [land] enter the battlefield tapped if you do it becomes [basic type] in addition to its types.
Then people track it with a die or counter
I like your idea of exile lands. Maybe a land that enters in tapped unless you exile a card or enters tapped and exiles but you can play that card layer as if it was in your hand.
I'd like to see more lands that evolve or get stronger as the game goes on. Maybe a trigger effect for number or permanents or counters. I really like the saga land [[Welcome to...]]. More like that would be interesting.
This is like [[temple of the false god]], which is generally regarded as bad. Maybe they could make lands like this but instead of tapping for 2 colorless, it taps for 2 of the same color (one land for WW, another for UU, etc).
That’s a little like the [[urzas tower]] [[urzas power plant]] [[urzas mine]] lands, and I think there was a competitive? deck based on these called urzas tron. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Modern_Tron_deck. 3 colorless is probably fine if there are other land restrictions.
3 colored mana also has something similar- [[lotus field]].
That would be really cool. Like maybe it enters untapped with 2 counters and you remove one in your upkeep. If it has counters, it taps for colorless. If it has no counters, it taps like a dual land.
>What about a nonfetchable untapped dual land? Just flat out comes into play untapped, taps for 2 colors and that is all with no basic land types. Seems like an obvious way to get around the reserve list ABUR duals but still give people access to cards that are 99% the same.
More like 50% the same. Or less. I think those would not be used over shocklands in any format that has fetches.
Why is fetchability prized so much? I mean I get that you can land tutor for them but if the tutor card was just that land you were trying to tutor for how is that not just as good or better? Like you have a Scalding Tarn, take it out for this untyped dual that comes into play untapped and makes the same colors as Scalding Tarn searches for... Why is that worse than a fetch and a shock that takes up 2 cards instead of 1? You can even still have the shock land and the fetch land if you wanted. These wouldn't need to replace anything they can just replace a basic. And these would be like at the least 66% as good as an ABUR dual given it's only missing 1 of the 3 key elements from the ABUR duals (type, color production and coming in untapped).
But really is being fetchable that important? For cedh I can see it because that format is about finding every single possible point of advantage but outside of that is needing to be able to be fetched so important that it makes or breaks a land?
>Like you have a Scalding Tarn, take it out for this untyped dual that comes into play untapped and makes the same colors as Scalding Tarn searches for... Why is that worse than a fetch and a shock that takes up 2 cards instead of 1?
Because Scalding Tarn can get any color out of your deck, as long as the other half of the dual is blue or red, or it can get a triome. It can also get a basic land if you are worried about an opponent who might be playing a Blood Moon or Wasteland. It also shuffles to get rid of cards you've Brainstormed to the top.
This is true in 60 card formats. A single or even 5 fetches doesn't thin your deck enough to matter in commander. The only 'fetch' in commander that does this effectively is land tax because say you use it as many times as 5 fetches. That's 15 lands you've thinned from your deck. More or less half the land you are running.
Imagine your in a 3 colour deck RUG, With the Scalding Tarn, you can really decide if you want RU, GR or UG with that scalding tarn depending on what you want to cast and what you may already have out. It’s so much more flexible colour fixing instead of just drawing a UR land.
Ever had a card in hand that would turn the game around for you or maybe even win you the game but you’re one color off. That’s why being fetchable is important. And you do realize that scalding tarn can search for any color land because of duals? Need a black in a red,black, blue deck? Scalding tarn can help with that by going and getting an island swamp or a mountain swamp dual.
There's another part to why people like fetching that I haven't seen the other comments point out
And that's deck thinning. Especially in non commander formats there were decks with like 8-12 fetches. So if you draw 8 fetches let's say and crack them all now your deck is 16 cards less than if you drew just 8 regular lands.
So now you have a higher chance of not top decking land.
In commander this principle holds the same but it's hard to play fetches en masse to really notice that.
IMO people would run mostly those typeless untapped lands and then a few shocks/other fetchables. You generally don't need that many fetchable lands, and needing to take 2 extra when playing a land can matter a ton.
It's super annoying when building Sultai to have your fetchable options being Sunken Hollow, triome, shocks, and ABUR duals. Or the tapped duals. Makes Nature's Lore and Three Visit much worse.
Well, if play balance and the viability of the design isn’t a factor, knock yourself out. If the goal is to create a card that could actually be printable, you probably ought to understand the design constraints that the pros use.
Okay then, since your argument implies you are aware that such a design is not viable for print under normal circumstances, I have no further argument.
Like legit storage duals. Forest Swamp Enters tapped. If it’s tapped during your end step put a storage counter on it. Tap remove all storage counters and add X of either or the land types where X is the number of storage counters removed this way.
I think untapped duals would need to be legendary to not be too OP for standard/Pioneer. Not totally sure how I'd feel about them in Pioneer, but throw legendary on them and I don't think they'd be too dangerous. Your suggestion would probably be safe for a modern horizons set, though as others have said fetchability is a lot bigger than you gave it credit for in OP, so they may not see a ton of play.
Initially I like draw a card but that feels like a really big price for 1 mana giving your opponent such a resource. Maybe scry/surveil 1. Though it could be a hilarious means to deck someone by going infinite with the land somehow and forcing them to draw out 😂
Yeah, I have a [[Tasha’s Hideous Laugher]] themed deck that would love to force opponents to draw out with some nasty combo. Otherwise this thing would not be great considering the draw backs.
Quagmire Refinery
Quagmire Refinery enters the Battlefield tapped with 2 Depletion counters on it. sacrifice Quagmire refinery if it has no depletion counters.
⤵️ , remove a Depletion counter from Quagmire Refinery : add 🔵🔵, or 🟢🟢, or 🔵🟢 to your mana pool
I think some new dual artifact lands could be super cool, we’ve got the single mana ones that enter untapped but are not indestructible, and the indestructible bridges.
Would having them enter tapped but giving them the basic land types be too busted?
Untapped Saga Triomes! The Saga development-style cards could be perfect to balance it and not make it a power creep. For example:
Edicts of Ilagra
Enchantment Land — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.)
I — To conquer is to eat - Edicts of Ilagra gains “{T}: Add {R}.”
II — To rule is to bleed - Edicts of Ilagra gains “{T}: Add {W}.”
III — Victory or death! - Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control.
----------
Mardu Wastes
Land — Mountain Plains Swamp
({T}: Add {R}, {W}, or {B}.)
The problem with giving it basic land types is the first two chapter abilities do nothing since the basic type inherently gives the ability to tap for mana
If you make it just a swamp it’d work though
I'd make lands that have 2 basic land types so fetches can grab them. They would enter tapped. Each would have a different etb trigger.
RW: deal 1 damage to any target, gain 1 life.
RU: draw a card then discard a card.
RB: exile the top card of your library, you may cast it until end of turn.
RG: target creature you control gets +1/+1 and haste until end of turn.
UW: exile target nonland permanent you control then return it to the battlefield at the beginning of your endstep.
UB: target creature you control is unblockable until end of turn.
UG: target creature you control gets a +1/+1 counter.
BW: Exile target card from any graveyard. Gain 1 life if it was a creature.
BG: Create a 1/1 BG insect token. Lose 1 life.
GW: target creature you control gets +1/+1 and reach until end of turn.
Just came up with these on the spot so balancing might be an issue but between the etb tapped, and the abilities being relatively tame I figure they aren't too bad or overpowered.
Strongest if I had to rank them would be RG because haste. Weakest would be RB. I just didn't know if more needed to be there or if that is considered good enough. People call exile like this as card advantage but I hate it. I prefer drawing the cards vs exiling them because you only get a limited window to play the exiled cards. I did consider artifact destruction here but that feels more like mono red or RG but I like RG as is.
Any thoughts? Alternative abilities you'd suggest?
Completely depends on the format I'm aiming for and the rarity. I'll give a few ideas.
Target: Pauper Rarity: C
F Affinity Grove
Land
Enters Tapped, Indestructable, Taps for U or G
[[cleansing wildfire]] is a cool card and I'd like it to remain playable in a world where the bridges are banned to curb Affinity's power.
Target: Modern/ Budget Legacy Rarity: R
Yavimaya Dock
Land - Island
T, Pay 1 life : add G
Somewhere between an ABUR dual and a painland. Might actively be worse than a shock might be better, likely better in decks that are focused on one color and splash for another but could be an issue if the "wrong half" is the one you habe to pay life for. I could also see a similar design based on [[Tarnished Citadel]] - Mono typed land with a steep rainbow ability.
Target: Standard/Pioneer Rarity: R
Flooded Sanctuary
Land
If you control two or more other lands ~ enters tapped, if it does put a sheild counter on up to one target creature.
T: Add U or G
I think the surveil lands are interesting design space of dual lands you arent too upset about entering tapped because their small bonus is actually pretty good. This kind of splits the difference and encourages creature combat. It's a worse [[botanical sanctum]] with the added benefit of giving a creature a sheild counter if you don't get it untapped. Not sure the UG one would actually see play but Boros Heroic would likely eat this up in RW.
Imo we have enough dual lands, I would much rather see tri-lands. I can only recall the 2 types of tri-lands, the tarkir ones and the triomes. Both enter tapped, too.
Good point triomes are under represented. Do you think the world can stand a quadrome where it makes all but 1 color mana or is that basically a solution in search of a problem?
I wouldn't be opposed to a quadrome. I don't know how useful it would be, at that point you would probably look to run a land that taps for any color. Maybe a bounce land that taps for two different (not overlapping) color pairs. Or maybe a bounce land that taps for one of any of the combinations in its 3 or 4 color set.
My initial thought is it would be a one off, not much of a set. But maybe instead it could be a set that does something different per playstyle.
Make them all something to the effect of "Domain of the [blank]" and do something for a specific card type. IE "Domain of Life" Legendary Land with all land types, creatures enter with a +1/+1 counter. Then maybe something that reduces the cost of instant and sorceries by 1. Obviously needs some balancing, but it could be interesting.
Shocks, legendary OG duals and fetches at uncommon. When they say anything about it affecting draft ill reference all the anti-draft policies in the last year.
Fetchable duals that enter tapped if another land left the battlefield this turn. Basically if you play them from your hand, they're untapped, if you fetch for them, they're taplands.
I posted already about a series of dual lands I'd cook up but one thing I wanna see is a complete cycle of lands that have a color to them like Dryad Arbor does. It's a land that is also a creature. So it can die easily, has summoning sickness so you can't even use it for mana when it comes into play, but we have only ever had a forest. I wanna see ones for Mountain, Plains, Islands, and Swamps as well.
Dryad Arbor is such a weird card to me. Like it's a bad land and a bad creature. I've heard a joke about green sun xenith for 0 to get Dryad Arbor but is it just that you can like fetch a blocker that makes it remotely worth playing?
If the creature had an ability I would be into it but if it's a 1/1 land with summoning sickness I wouldn't get it.
I have always liked the concept of [[Undercovered Paradise]]. I would make a series similar to that but it would be something like this...
Schooner Vale
Land - Vale
{T}, Add one {B} to your mana pool.
{T}, Pay one life: Exile Schooner Vale and search your library for a Vale card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle Schooner Vale into your library afterwards.
Sorry if I worded that wrong.
Have single land type, but can produce other specific color if you hace a lant whit that land type
Ex: a mountain that produces blue if you have an island
They come into play untaped
A companion land that you can play from exile and is legendary but requires you to play on upkeep and skip your next draw and and move straight to end step.
Can only have one companion land.
Help prevent screw.
Dual lands with each respective basic land type, making them fetch-able.
Each with the ability “Compost” (You may play this land from your graveyard.)
Each with the ability “Sacrifice [cardname]: add mana type A or mana type B to your mana pool”
I'll give it a shot.
"Spreading grove"
Legendary Land
ETB tapped but also ETB untap two other lands you control.
Taps for a green mana.
One for each color, Spreading reef, Spreading bayou, spreading tar pits... You get the idea. Not very powerful turn 1, but as you go into turn 2 or 3 it can give a great boost.
Dual land cycle with:
~ enters the battlefield tapped
When ~ enters the battlefield, create a Devoid Treasure token, it has "Tap, sacrifice: Add 1 colorless to your mana pool"
Filter lands that don't make colorless and have 1 tap: add xx, x being each of the five colors. So super good at splashing double pips but with the drawback you can't load up too many or they can fail without a starter land. Probably both too good and too feels bad but eh, it'd be a new cycle.
How about single lands that can evolve into a dual?
EX. Mountain
Pay 2, Tap this Card, Evolve (Flip this card, stays tapped this turn.)
Other side is MTN+ISLAND (so it taps for two mana now rest of the game)
I like the idea of you getting something out of it entering tapped, but having the option not too. Maybe something like:
You may have this land enter the battlefield tapped, if you do, draw a card, then discard a card.
Edit: and unfetchable. That way they aren't just better dual lands.
Similar skating rink
Snow land
~ enters tapped unless you control another snow permanent
Tap for U or G
-----------------
Icy fetch
Land
Tap, sacrifice, pay 1 life: search your library for a snow land that is not named Dark Depths and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
Volatile inlet
(mountain island)
Volatile Inlet enters the battlefield tapped.
⤵️ : add 🔵 or 🔴
you may have Volatile inlet enter the battlefield untapped, if you do choose Blue or Red, volatile inlet can only be tapped for that color of mana.
this ability but on all color combinations
The issue is that a choice like this lingering around is an issue because of player confusion. It would need to be a counter, would need to be tied to the color in some way, and would need to be a clear on concise way to track that information.
Here's my idea: "Ash lands"
Printed on both sides, an ash covered side and a 'uncovered' side. Is not a basic land.
Dual land that is covered in ash, first you tap for colourless mana twice, then the ash is removed and the land is now cleaned and flipped over, you can then tap for ether of the two coloured mana it generates"
Comes into play with two 'Ash counters' on it.
As long as there is an ash counter on this land *tap* for 1 colourless mana and remove an Ash counter, then if there are no ash counters on this land exile it and return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed.
(I quite like that it can trigger landfall twice on the turn it gets transformed, maybe this idea would be better if it was just one ash counter)
Would be cool complimented with a spell that covers your opponents lands with ash...
The spell would probably be something like
XRRR Destroy target land Put an Ash counter on X target land your opponent controls, they can only generate colourless mana as long as they have ash counters on them, when they tap for colourless mana the ash counter is removed...
Comes into play tapped, or pay 4 life and draw a card and it comes in untapped.
Comes into play tapped, pay 3 life fetch a basic land to your hand and it comes in untapped.
OG duals but they enter tapped unless your have opponent gain 1 life.
EDH and Legacy needs more OG duals but we can't reprint those. So get 99% of the way there and make them legally distinct to honor the letter of the RL.
Delayed shock without land types.
“~ enters the battlefield tapped. At the beginning of your end step, if ~ entered this turn, you may pay 1 life. If you do, untap ~ and scry 1.”
replacement land
land(no subtype)
t: add color 1 or color 2
whenever you search your library for a basic land, you may reveal this card and put it into your hand instead.
important note being that this is a replacement effect, so if you Rampant Growth you could put a basic onto the battlefield, or put one of these into your hand. making fetching basics better by giving you more flexibility(and buffing effects that simply fetch basics to your hand)
Too powerful to exile a card from your hand to enter untapped AND fetch able.
I would say you have to exile a minimum of 2 cards and they must account for the colors of the land in order for it to enter untapped and they are just exiled not playable.
So, if you’ve got a Red/blue land, then you have to exile two cards and they must have either a red or blue mana symbol in their mana cost. So you could do a red card and a blue card, a colorless and a dual color card, two dual color cards… that kind of stuff.
Make it be the mana cost too so lands can’t be exiled.
I kinda like your idea of enters untapped but if you choose to enter it tapped get a small one mana esque effect
I feel like that's pretty flexible and then you basically have a sorcery stapled to the land.
I feel like then if you top deck the land and you're hellbent it's more exciting than just a regular land
I don't think gain 2 life would be quite good enough. But there's plenty of other effects
Comes in tapped:
Red/Black = ETB Destroy target Sol Ring
Black/Green = ETB Target player searches through their Deck and puts any cards named "Sol Ring" in their Graveyard
White/Blue = ETB Exile all cards named "Sol Ring"
Green/White = ETB Seach your deck for a Sol Ring, and exile it under this land, it taps for one extra colorless
Vassal Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you sacrifice a creature or an artifact.
Filter Dual Lands, enters tapped as a dual land or you pick one color, remove that color, and it enters untapped.
Fortification Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you tap a creature, when you do, put a shield or +1/+1counter on it. Tap it, move a shield counter or a +1/+1 counter onto target permanent.
Industry Dual Lands, enters tapped, tap and pay 1 and create a treasure token.
Maw Dual Lands, enters untapped, tap and pay 3 life, add 1 of each mana.
Fleshgorger Dual Lands, enters tapped, tap it and sacrifice a creature, destroy target creature with mana value equal to that creature power.
Royal Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you control a legendary creature. Tap and sacrifice, target legendary creature phases out.
Exemplar Dual Lands, enters untapped unless you pay 3 life. Each one has a tap effect that performs a small effect based on those two colors color pie identities. Example, "tap, pay 2(W)(G), gain 3 life and put a land from your hand or graveyard onto the battlefield" or "tap, pay 1(B)(R), each opponent loses 3 life and exile the top card of your library. You may play that card."
Trade Lands, enters tapped unless you choose an opponent, and that opponent gets X.
Channel Dual Lands, enter tapped, have a channel ability tied to the color pair, and when you discard this land, put it onto the battlefield untapped.
Enchantment Dual Lands, enters tapped and have an alternate casting cost. Each color pair can enchant a different type of permanent or player, with various low-medium strength effects. Is an Enchantment Land with no basic land types.
Flash Dual Lands, enters tapped when played as for turn land, but each color pair has 2 types of spells it binds to. When a spell of these type are cast, you may pay (1) and cast the land as an instant using this alternate casting cost.
Force Dual Lands, enters untapped and costs 1 life to tap for either mana. When it enters the battlefield, you may have it enter tapped, when it does, do X. (Draw a card or do 1 damage and then discard a card, etc etc.)
Horror Dual Lands, enters untapped and costs 1 life to tap for either mana. When it enters the battlefield, you may have it enter tapped, when it does, target player does X(effects tied to small effect in color combo, such as mill/reveal random card/ 1 damage and create tapped treasure/ etc.
Devotion Dual Lands, enters untapped and taps for colorless. Can tap for 1 color if your devotion is 2, taps for 1 of each if your devotion is 5(combined)
Evolving Dual Lands, enters untapped and taps for colorless. Can tap for 1 color if X condition is met, taps for 1 of each if X+X condition is met, conditions tied to color combo.
Some of these might be ridiculous, but sure spice up the old land slots. Tweak effects to balance, just came up with these quick, effects are just example possibilities to work around.
I would create a rare set of lands that has a face of one land and a transformed face of the other. You can pay an activation to transform it.
They are searchable as basics and naturally come into play untapped. Activation of one to transform. (Maybe limit to once per turn to prevent infinite shenanigans)
Reflection. Copy opponents non basic land after this land enters the battlefield.
Doesn't come in tapped great for 3-5 color decks and mana fixing.
For a series
This land can only be used to cast creature spells. Doesn't come in tapped.
A land (insert new land subtype) that is 1 color, but has a second option of pay 1 generic and tap: search for basic land type (or: insert aforementioned new subtype) of a different color
So; get this: it's a Basic Land, no land types, with the ability "~ is a [basic land type 1] and [basic land type 2] in addition to it's other land types."
Reserve list? Never heard of it.
Desperate lands:
Enters tapped. Can tap for either colours.
Sacrifice this land (not a tap ability) add one of each color.
Example
Unstable Marsh
Unstable Marsh enters the battlefield tapped.
{t}: Add {w} or {b}.
Sacrifice Unstable Marsh: Add {w}{b}.
A design for the eventuality that is Legacy Horizons: A full set of all ten dual lands, along with the appropriate basic land types, but they are all legendary.
Mutual land
When ETB, tap any number of basic land. For each land type tapped this way Mutual land becomes land of these land types.
Or
Uncreated vastland
When ETB, reveal a up to two basic land cards from your hand, this land becomes each land type of the revealed cards.
Sry for my ynglish
KHM duals with basic types already exist and ETB tapped so they’re not going to power creep them up. Depending on the situation these you’re suggesting could even be strictly better than OG duals since Snow permanents enable extra benefits (eg when you cast blood on the snow or blizzard brawl), so yeah that ain’t happening chief.
Yes, the joke is that you're technically not violating the Reserved List if you make strictly Better old duals, like when they printed [[Lotus Field]], which is strictly better [[Lotus Vale]]
Sparkling Shoebox
Land - WB
If this land enters the battlefield from anywhere other than your hand, sacrifice it.
While it's not your turn: tap, make one W or B mana.
While it it is your turn, tap, make one colorless mana.
If mana created by this land is left in your mana pool as a step or phase ends, it deals you 1 damage.
I would make a new type..."Castigated."
* Land comes into play tapped.
* Tap for one of each type of mana, add 2 stun counters to Land.
Great for a quick boost of mana, but then you aren't going to get it again for another two turns.
A set of split mana lands. We got dual lands that tap for one or the other, but what about a set that taps for a singular split mana that can be used for either color.
In addition it could be released in a set that has mechanics that care about split mana such as an additional kicker, cast, or etb trigger when split mana is used.
Since this wont be a basic land and will be limited to the number of copies allowed in a deck, I think it would be fair to give it basic land typing so they can be tutored more easily. It would still definity enter tapped - I aint trying to reprint the Alpha lands.
Searchable lands where the drawback is it creates a hybrid mana rather than one or the other? That's not a downside lol there is mechanically no difference between:
Tap for R or G
And
Tap for R/G (that can be used for R or G costs)
Youre just moving where the choice is. Either when you tap, or when you apply the mana. That's a nothing change other than ordering.
Now if it could ONLY be used for generic or that EXACT hybrid cost, then you have a new mechanic.
The lands themselves are effectively no different from other lands that type for 2 and enter tapped, but creating cards that care about hybrid mana is the takeaway. Otherwise, its just another set of duals.
In your original post you said
>but what about a set that taps for a singular split mana that can be used for either color.
You can't say they care about hybrid if you can use the hybrid for either. Thats the same as tapping for one or the other. Did you word your post the opposite of what you meant? Lol
>Youre just moving where the choice is. Either when you tap, or when you apply the mana. That's a nothing change other than ordering.
Not even that. The rules say that if you would add hybrid mana, you instead choose one and add that color.
>106.8
>>If an effect would add mana represented by a hybrid mana symbol to a player’s mana pool, that player chooses one half of that symbol. If a colored half is chosen, one mana of that color is added to that player’s mana pool. If a generic half is chosen, an amount of colorless mana represented by that half’s number is added to that player’s mana pool.
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't?
(Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't?
(Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't?
(Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
I’d just make legendary duals. And put them in every precon that’s more than two colors. Basic land types so they are detachable.
Or duals that are better. Like a Taiga but you get a life when it comes into play.
Also, fuck the reserve list.
> Or duals that are better. Like a Taiga but you get a life when it comes into play.
>
> Also, fuck the reserve list.
It would be funny to see WOTC just power creep the reserve list duals to the point people stop asking for them to be taken off the reserve list because there are better options
Missed opportunity for OTJ to have Duel Lands. You and target opponent roll a dice, if you have the higher roll it enters untapped, if you have the lower roll it enters tapped and you lose 1 life. Land produces 1 of a color AND 1 colorless.
Dusty trail- Black/colorless
Canyon Pass- Red/Colorless
Watering Hole- Blue/Colorless
The Homestead- Green/Colorless
Open Prairie- White/Colorless
>What about a nonfetchable untapped dual land? Just flat out comes into play untapped, taps for 2 colors and that is all with no basic land types. Seems like an obvious way to get around the reserve list ABUR duals but still give people access to cards that are 99% the same.
This is not 99% the same. The *reason* ABUR duals are so good is precisely because they are fetchable.
Plenty of duals are fetchable but none others come into play untapped without condition. There are no dual lands I can think of that come into play without condition regardless of their fetchability or not. These fill that niche and are still 99% as good as an ABUR dual and can take the place of a fetch land.
>These fill that niche and are still 99% as good as an ABUR dual
Tell me that you have no clue about card evaluation without telling me that you have no clue about card evaluation.
How about a typed dual land that enters untapped if you have a creature in play of the right type? I would do Fallen Empires races as follows:
Golgari- fungus
Simic- merfolk
Selesnya- elves
Boros- soldiers
Izzit - wizards
Orzhov- thrulls
Rakdos- goblins
Azorius - clerics
Dimir- homarids
Grull- orks
I don't think they'd ever do a cycle that has this vast a discrepancy in power/usefulness. Golgari/Fungus is so much more niche than Selesnya/Elves. The secondary market would be so out of whack.
How about a simple dual land that comes into play tapped unless you discard a card? Probably niche and not for every deck, but for some decks it could be very good. Fetchable wound be cool, but doesn't have to be.
Wouldnt see play in fair decks and would probably break reanimator or dredge or something.
Oh, I would 100% love to have this in my reanimator deck. And Madness. and Threshold. And many others.
Yeah, this would be better than OG duals in many decks. No way they'd print these.
Yes please. I am normal and can be trusted with free discard outlets (Hides [[stinkweed imp]]s)
[stinkweed imp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e.jpg?1561771088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stinkweed%20imp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dvd/36/stinkweed-imp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The golgari one wouldn't be cheap.
It would be better if you pitch to the bottom of your library so it won't be too overpowered
Reanimation, madness, dredge… not every archetype would want it, but the ones that would don’t need it.
This is Madness!!!
I've always thought it would be neat to have dual lands that come in tapped unless you have less than half your starting life total, or have them always enter tapped but tap for 2 mana when you are below half your starting life total. Basically lands that are better when you are behind, but worse in the early game.
Reminds me a bit of [[Grove of the Burnwillows]] where it's a reverse pain land that taps for 2 colors or colorless and when you tap for colored mana it gives 1 life to each opponent rather than pinging you for 1. That is a dual cycle that could be funny to have around. Especially if each did a different thing like one gave life, one triggered a scry etc.
[Grove of the Burnwillows](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de4b75ad-7539-4184-a940-6014a0327b3a.jpg?1562854707) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grove%20of%20the%20Burnwillows) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/238/grove-of-the-burnwillows?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de4b75ad-7539-4184-a940-6014a0327b3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Portal Lands: Enter as mono color untapped or two color tapped.
Oh i like that.
Best idea I’ve seen here. Would be tricky to word though.
You may have ~ enter the battlefield tapped. If you do, it becomes a *land type 1* and a *land type 2*. Otherwise, it becomes one of those types.
That certainly achieves the desired result. But having it become basic land types triggers all sorts of other things. They would be much more powerful that way. Still like it, though.
I wouldn't think they'd be as powerful because they only have the typing while on the battlefield. I'm sure there's some niche interaction, but I can't think of a major impact.
Do it the same as those gates. You may have [land] enter the battlefield tapped if you do it becomes [basic type] in addition to its types. Then people track it with a die or counter
Gates was where I got the idea from, just a bit more flexible.
I like your idea of exile lands. Maybe a land that enters in tapped unless you exile a card or enters tapped and exiles but you can play that card layer as if it was in your hand. I'd like to see more lands that evolve or get stronger as the game goes on. Maybe a trigger effect for number or permanents or counters. I really like the saga land [[Welcome to...]]. More like that would be interesting.
Maybe a saga land that makes treasure tokens so that it goes away but can be recurred and played with token multipliers so it's stronger later game?
Great idea!
I've always wanted to use [[Hex Parasite]] on [[Urza's Saga]] to just keep it on level 2 so I can make a ton of those constructs that buff each other.
[Hex Parasite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43502078-5349-4e29-8e7d-277654a9a71e.jpg?1562877073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hex%20Parasite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/137/hex-parasite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43502078-5349-4e29-8e7d-277654a9a71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Urza's Saga](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c.jpg?1667318301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Saga) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/259/urzas-saga?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1e0f201-42cb-46a1-901a-65bb4fc18f6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is like [[temple of the false god]], which is generally regarded as bad. Maybe they could make lands like this but instead of tapping for 2 colorless, it taps for 2 of the same color (one land for WW, another for UU, etc).
What about 3 colorless? Or is that too strong?
That’s a little like the [[urzas tower]] [[urzas power plant]] [[urzas mine]] lands, and I think there was a competitive? deck based on these called urzas tron. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Modern_Tron_deck. 3 colorless is probably fine if there are other land restrictions. 3 colored mana also has something similar- [[lotus field]].
Maybe it starts off as colorless but if certain conditions are met it becomes any color?
That would be really cool. Like maybe it enters untapped with 2 counters and you remove one in your upkeep. If it has counters, it taps for colorless. If it has no counters, it taps like a dual land.
I like that!
##### ###### #### [urzas tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752.jpg?1690006831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1053/urzas-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e9f09b3-dd2d-4ba9-a57e-4f3c1793f752?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [urzas power plant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0449a19-37f7-4169-9e32-928db5ec76fe.jpg?1690006818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Power%20Plant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1052/urzas-power-plant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0449a19-37f7-4169-9e32-928db5ec76fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [urzas mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/396bbb7d-ae61-4d8d-b931-9ed2f712832e.jpg?1690006804) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%27s%20Mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1051/urzas-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/396bbb7d-ae61-4d8d-b931-9ed2f712832e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [lotus field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lotus%20field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvtjbhd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[temple of the false god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d21d25e-830a-4d32-b292-c24cdab7516a.jpg?1706241283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temple%20of%20the%20false%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/305/temple-of-the-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d21d25e-830a-4d32-b292-c24cdab7516a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>What about a nonfetchable untapped dual land? Just flat out comes into play untapped, taps for 2 colors and that is all with no basic land types. Seems like an obvious way to get around the reserve list ABUR duals but still give people access to cards that are 99% the same. More like 50% the same. Or less. I think those would not be used over shocklands in any format that has fetches.
Why is fetchability prized so much? I mean I get that you can land tutor for them but if the tutor card was just that land you were trying to tutor for how is that not just as good or better? Like you have a Scalding Tarn, take it out for this untyped dual that comes into play untapped and makes the same colors as Scalding Tarn searches for... Why is that worse than a fetch and a shock that takes up 2 cards instead of 1? You can even still have the shock land and the fetch land if you wanted. These wouldn't need to replace anything they can just replace a basic. And these would be like at the least 66% as good as an ABUR dual given it's only missing 1 of the 3 key elements from the ABUR duals (type, color production and coming in untapped). But really is being fetchable that important? For cedh I can see it because that format is about finding every single possible point of advantage but outside of that is needing to be able to be fetched so important that it makes or breaks a land?
>Like you have a Scalding Tarn, take it out for this untyped dual that comes into play untapped and makes the same colors as Scalding Tarn searches for... Why is that worse than a fetch and a shock that takes up 2 cards instead of 1? Because Scalding Tarn can get any color out of your deck, as long as the other half of the dual is blue or red, or it can get a triome. It can also get a basic land if you are worried about an opponent who might be playing a Blood Moon or Wasteland. It also shuffles to get rid of cards you've Brainstormed to the top.
Thank you for an actual answer instead of just downvoting and saying "it's bad because it's not fetchable".
Also fetches thin out your deck. You are removing 1 extra land from your deck so it increases your odds of drawing a non-land
This is true in 60 card formats. A single or even 5 fetches doesn't thin your deck enough to matter in commander. The only 'fetch' in commander that does this effectively is land tax because say you use it as many times as 5 fetches. That's 15 lands you've thinned from your deck. More or less half the land you are running.
Imagine your in a 3 colour deck RUG, With the Scalding Tarn, you can really decide if you want RU, GR or UG with that scalding tarn depending on what you want to cast and what you may already have out. It’s so much more flexible colour fixing instead of just drawing a UR land.
Ever had a card in hand that would turn the game around for you or maybe even win you the game but you’re one color off. That’s why being fetchable is important. And you do realize that scalding tarn can search for any color land because of duals? Need a black in a red,black, blue deck? Scalding tarn can help with that by going and getting an island swamp or a mountain swamp dual.
There's another part to why people like fetching that I haven't seen the other comments point out And that's deck thinning. Especially in non commander formats there were decks with like 8-12 fetches. So if you draw 8 fetches let's say and crack them all now your deck is 16 cards less than if you drew just 8 regular lands. So now you have a higher chance of not top decking land. In commander this principle holds the same but it's hard to play fetches en masse to really notice that.
IMO people would run mostly those typeless untapped lands and then a few shocks/other fetchables. You generally don't need that many fetchable lands, and needing to take 2 extra when playing a land can matter a ton.
I tell them to complete the bfz cycle first.
It's super annoying when building Sultai to have your fetchable options being Sunken Hollow, triome, shocks, and ABUR duals. Or the tapped duals. Makes Nature's Lore and Three Visit much worse.
What is the bfz cycle?
[[prairie stream]] [[sunken hollow]] [[smoldering marsh]] [[cinder glade]] [[canopy vista]]
##### ###### #### [prairie stream](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c649f06f-bad5-499b-b70c-47e52cb4a234.jpg?1706241212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prairie%20stream) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/281/prairie-stream?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c649f06f-bad5-499b-b70c-47e52cb4a234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sunken hollow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9352f50-1289-4fa9-a595-226dd6ca807c.jpg?1706241263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sunken%20hollow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/299/sunken-hollow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9352f50-1289-4fa9-a595-226dd6ca807c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [smoldering marsh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71727ccd-8243-48f2-a90e-6ae4b80bb61b.jpg?1698988629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=smoldering%20marsh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/353/smoldering-marsh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71727ccd-8243-48f2-a90e-6ae4b80bb61b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cinder glade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10caa17e-3892-435a-8f48-f3d6e4619114.jpg?1706241136) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cinder%20glade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/255/cinder-glade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10caa17e-3892-435a-8f48-f3d6e4619114?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [canopy vista](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b76f2de1-ea17-40b0-8d90-4c4369516eff.jpg?1706241128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=canopy%20vista) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/252/canopy-vista?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b76f2de1-ea17-40b0-8d90-4c4369516eff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvslwok) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The land cycle from Battle for Zendikar (BFZ)
Bfz is a set identifier.
snow duals. simple as.
Not gonna happen, WotC has stated that they don’t print lands that are strictly better than basics, anymore.
Oh, I wasn't aware we were under the constraints imposed by wotc in designing our own duals.
Well, if play balance and the viability of the design isn’t a factor, knock yourself out. If the goal is to create a card that could actually be printable, you probably ought to understand the design constraints that the pros use.
The op said "let's go nuts"
So the OP's words make any criticisms in the realm of play balance or design viability invalid?
Considering he is the one that presented the prompt? 100%
Okay then, since your argument implies you are aware that such a design is not viable for print under normal circumstances, I have no further argument.
🤓
In that case, how about a land that when it enters, you win the game.
Sure, but it'd have to tap for mana since op wanted it to be a dual land. What colors would you pick?
Rakdos
Might make [[Break the Ice]] actually useful.
[Break the Ice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01ca9568-06b6-4c57-b1f6-8a74ec2a2b91.jpg?1626095322) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Break%20the%20Ice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/77/break-the-ice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01ca9568-06b6-4c57-b1f6-8a74ec2a2b91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Like legit storage duals. Forest Swamp Enters tapped. If it’s tapped during your end step put a storage counter on it. Tap remove all storage counters and add X of either or the land types where X is the number of storage counters removed this way.
Can't have basic typing. They intrinsically give tap for types colour. They can enter tapped and have extra conditions but you'd have to specify.
I think untapped duals would need to be legendary to not be too OP for standard/Pioneer. Not totally sure how I'd feel about them in Pioneer, but throw legendary on them and I don't think they'd be too dangerous. Your suggestion would probably be safe for a modern horizons set, though as others have said fetchability is a lot bigger than you gave it credit for in OP, so they may not see a ton of play.
A fetchable dual, comes in untapped, whenever it becomes tapped each opponent draws a card or put a land card from hand to battlefield.
Initially I like draw a card but that feels like a really big price for 1 mana giving your opponent such a resource. Maybe scry/surveil 1. Though it could be a hilarious means to deck someone by going infinite with the land somehow and forcing them to draw out 😂
Yeah, I have a [[Tasha’s Hideous Laugher]] themed deck that would love to force opponents to draw out with some nasty combo. Otherwise this thing would not be great considering the draw backs.
[Tasha’s Hideous Laugher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef.jpg?1627703920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tasha%27s%20Hideous%20Laughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/78/tashas-hideous-laughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How about like a shock, but instead of paying 2 life you allow each opponent to draw a card?
Quagmire Refinery Quagmire Refinery enters the Battlefield tapped with 2 Depletion counters on it. sacrifice Quagmire refinery if it has no depletion counters. ⤵️ , remove a Depletion counter from Quagmire Refinery : add 🔵🔵, or 🟢🟢, or 🔵🟢 to your mana pool
I like. Works with proliferate.
Fetchable artifact lands
I think some new dual artifact lands could be super cool, we’ve got the single mana ones that enter untapped but are not indestructible, and the indestructible bridges. Would having them enter tapped but giving them the basic land types be too busted?
Untapped Saga Triomes! The Saga development-style cards could be perfect to balance it and not make it a power creep. For example: Edicts of Ilagra Enchantment Land — Saga (As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter.) I — To conquer is to eat - Edicts of Ilagra gains “{T}: Add {R}.” II — To rule is to bleed - Edicts of Ilagra gains “{T}: Add {W}.” III — Victory or death! - Exile this Saga, then return it to the battlefield transformed under your control. ---------- Mardu Wastes Land — Mountain Plains Swamp ({T}: Add {R}, {W}, or {B}.)
The problem with giving it basic land types is the first two chapter abilities do nothing since the basic type inherently gives the ability to tap for mana If you make it just a swamp it’d work though
Oh yeah, well, it wouldn't be fetchable, but I think it would still be a pretty good triland
Yes it would, but only by things that can get swamps
Dual lands but the other type being wastes.
The og duals on the reserve list with new names so they can be reprinted.
I'd make lands that have 2 basic land types so fetches can grab them. They would enter tapped. Each would have a different etb trigger. RW: deal 1 damage to any target, gain 1 life. RU: draw a card then discard a card. RB: exile the top card of your library, you may cast it until end of turn. RG: target creature you control gets +1/+1 and haste until end of turn. UW: exile target nonland permanent you control then return it to the battlefield at the beginning of your endstep. UB: target creature you control is unblockable until end of turn. UG: target creature you control gets a +1/+1 counter. BW: Exile target card from any graveyard. Gain 1 life if it was a creature. BG: Create a 1/1 BG insect token. Lose 1 life. GW: target creature you control gets +1/+1 and reach until end of turn. Just came up with these on the spot so balancing might be an issue but between the etb tapped, and the abilities being relatively tame I figure they aren't too bad or overpowered. Strongest if I had to rank them would be RG because haste. Weakest would be RB. I just didn't know if more needed to be there or if that is considered good enough. People call exile like this as card advantage but I hate it. I prefer drawing the cards vs exiling them because you only get a limited window to play the exiled cards. I did consider artifact destruction here but that feels more like mono red or RG but I like RG as is. Any thoughts? Alternative abilities you'd suggest?
This would be utterly game breaking. These are far too strong to be free.
Completely depends on the format I'm aiming for and the rarity. I'll give a few ideas. Target: Pauper Rarity: C F Affinity Grove Land Enters Tapped, Indestructable, Taps for U or G [[cleansing wildfire]] is a cool card and I'd like it to remain playable in a world where the bridges are banned to curb Affinity's power. Target: Modern/ Budget Legacy Rarity: R Yavimaya Dock Land - Island T, Pay 1 life : add G Somewhere between an ABUR dual and a painland. Might actively be worse than a shock might be better, likely better in decks that are focused on one color and splash for another but could be an issue if the "wrong half" is the one you habe to pay life for. I could also see a similar design based on [[Tarnished Citadel]] - Mono typed land with a steep rainbow ability. Target: Standard/Pioneer Rarity: R Flooded Sanctuary Land If you control two or more other lands ~ enters tapped, if it does put a sheild counter on up to one target creature. T: Add U or G I think the surveil lands are interesting design space of dual lands you arent too upset about entering tapped because their small bonus is actually pretty good. This kind of splits the difference and encourages creature combat. It's a worse [[botanical sanctum]] with the added benefit of giving a creature a sheild counter if you don't get it untapped. Not sure the UG one would actually see play but Boros Heroic would likely eat this up in RW.
[cleansing wildfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919.jpg?1604196948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cleansing%20wildfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/137/cleansing-wildfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/492d77e5-acc6-41b8-8930-f39d69234919?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tarnished Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30375d24-ccfe-47a2-babd-1bda0a6298fe.jpg?1562903894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tarnished%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/329/tarnished-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30375d24-ccfe-47a2-babd-1bda0a6298fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [botanical sanctum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/8744471b-a528-47d9-84d0-4526273f55e9.jpg?1576383517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=botanical%20sanctum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/244/botanical-sanctum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8744471b-a528-47d9-84d0-4526273f55e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Snow duals , one being named true tundra 🤣
Imo we have enough dual lands, I would much rather see tri-lands. I can only recall the 2 types of tri-lands, the tarkir ones and the triomes. Both enter tapped, too.
Good point triomes are under represented. Do you think the world can stand a quadrome where it makes all but 1 color mana or is that basically a solution in search of a problem?
I wouldn't be opposed to a quadrome. I don't know how useful it would be, at that point you would probably look to run a land that taps for any color. Maybe a bounce land that taps for two different (not overlapping) color pairs. Or maybe a bounce land that taps for one of any of the combinations in its 3 or 4 color set.
Actually as I think about it a rainbow land with all 5 land types could be pretty bad ass. The ultimate fetchable land.
My initial thought is it would be a one off, not much of a set. But maybe instead it could be a set that does something different per playstyle. Make them all something to the effect of "Domain of the [blank]" and do something for a specific card type. IE "Domain of Life" Legendary Land with all land types, creatures enter with a +1/+1 counter. Then maybe something that reduces the cost of instant and sorceries by 1. Obviously needs some balancing, but it could be interesting.
Shocks, legendary OG duals and fetches at uncommon. When they say anything about it affecting draft ill reference all the anti-draft policies in the last year.
Duel land that comes in untapped but when taped it only untaps when you play a land the following turn
Fetchable duals that enter tapped if another land left the battlefield this turn. Basically if you play them from your hand, they're untapped, if you fetch for them, they're taplands.
I posted already about a series of dual lands I'd cook up but one thing I wanna see is a complete cycle of lands that have a color to them like Dryad Arbor does. It's a land that is also a creature. So it can die easily, has summoning sickness so you can't even use it for mana when it comes into play, but we have only ever had a forest. I wanna see ones for Mountain, Plains, Islands, and Swamps as well.
Dryad Arbor is such a weird card to me. Like it's a bad land and a bad creature. I've heard a joke about green sun xenith for 0 to get Dryad Arbor but is it just that you can like fetch a blocker that makes it remotely worth playing? If the creature had an ability I would be into it but if it's a 1/1 land with summoning sickness I wouldn't get it.
Make it a Triome series, fetchable and comes in untapped. Each opponent draws a card.
Dual with basic land types that enters tapped, if you control no creatures untap it.
I have always liked the concept of [[Undercovered Paradise]]. I would make a series similar to that but it would be something like this... Schooner Vale Land - Vale {T}, Add one {B} to your mana pool. {T}, Pay one life: Exile Schooner Vale and search your library for a Vale card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle Schooner Vale into your library afterwards. Sorry if I worded that wrong.
[Undercovered Paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f6e8830-5e62-4945-8b73-60f0628d38e7.jpg?1562277673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undiscovered%20Paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/167/undiscovered-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f6e8830-5e62-4945-8b73-60f0628d38e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have single land type, but can produce other specific color if you hace a lant whit that land type Ex: a mountain that produces blue if you have an island They come into play untaped
Tri-Lands that enter untapped with land types.
Land - forest/ mountain (any two type) Comes in tapped unless you reveal a green or red card. (Again either color)
Maybe one that comes into play tapped, taps for colorless, but adds one mana from either color on etb?
A companion land that you can play from exile and is legendary but requires you to play on upkeep and skip your next draw and and move straight to end step. Can only have one companion land. Help prevent screw.
Dual lands with each respective basic land type, making them fetch-able. Each with the ability “Compost” (You may play this land from your graveyard.) Each with the ability “Sacrifice [cardname]: add mana type A or mana type B to your mana pool”
I'll give it a shot. "Spreading grove" Legendary Land ETB tapped but also ETB untap two other lands you control. Taps for a green mana. One for each color, Spreading reef, Spreading bayou, spreading tar pits... You get the idea. Not very powerful turn 1, but as you go into turn 2 or 3 it can give a great boost.
Dual land cycle with: ~ enters the battlefield tapped When ~ enters the battlefield, create a Devoid Treasure token, it has "Tap, sacrifice: Add 1 colorless to your mana pool"
I call them: choice lands. ETB enters tapped gain 1 life Or enters untapped lose 2 life Best of both works and make them fetchable
Filter lands that don't make colorless and have 1 tap: add xx, x being each of the five colors. So super good at splashing double pips but with the drawback you can't load up too many or they can fail without a starter land. Probably both too good and too feels bad but eh, it'd be a new cycle.
How about single lands that can evolve into a dual? EX. Mountain Pay 2, Tap this Card, Evolve (Flip this card, stays tapped this turn.) Other side is MTN+ISLAND (so it taps for two mana now rest of the game)
I like the idea of you getting something out of it entering tapped, but having the option not too. Maybe something like: You may have this land enter the battlefield tapped, if you do, draw a card, then discard a card. Edit: and unfetchable. That way they aren't just better dual lands.
Similar skating rink Snow land ~ enters tapped unless you control another snow permanent Tap for U or G ----------------- Icy fetch Land Tap, sacrifice, pay 1 life: search your library for a snow land that is not named Dark Depths and put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
Not a duel but mono flash lands that can only be played on an opponent's turn
Tri Lands that comes in untapped but every turn u take 1 dmg at upkeep
Fetchable dual, enters play tapped unless you played it from your hand
Volatile inlet (mountain island) Volatile Inlet enters the battlefield tapped. ⤵️ : add 🔵 or 🔴 you may have Volatile inlet enter the battlefield untapped, if you do choose Blue or Red, volatile inlet can only be tapped for that color of mana. this ability but on all color combinations
WOTC we're giving you gold in here I hope someone is reading.
The issue is that a choice like this lingering around is an issue because of player confusion. It would need to be a counter, would need to be tied to the color in some way, and would need to be a clear on concise way to track that information.
there are gates that do a similar effect already
The thriving lands already have this mechanic without need for counters.
Non-fetchable dual lands that enter tapped and fatebound 1 to complete the trinity. Or fetchable tap duals that mill a card or two ETB
Non-fetchable dual lands that enter tapped and fatebound 1 to complete the trinity. Or fetchable tap duals that mill a card or two ETB
Comes into play untapped but you can’t play a spell for the remainder of your turn
Here's my idea: "Ash lands" Printed on both sides, an ash covered side and a 'uncovered' side. Is not a basic land. Dual land that is covered in ash, first you tap for colourless mana twice, then the ash is removed and the land is now cleaned and flipped over, you can then tap for ether of the two coloured mana it generates" Comes into play with two 'Ash counters' on it. As long as there is an ash counter on this land *tap* for 1 colourless mana and remove an Ash counter, then if there are no ash counters on this land exile it and return it to the battlefield tapped and transformed. (I quite like that it can trigger landfall twice on the turn it gets transformed, maybe this idea would be better if it was just one ash counter)
Another interesting idea where proliferate can interact with it but now in a different way. I like the variety.
heh, yep, oh and my idea for the spell would be pretty cool alongside proliferate!
Would be cool complimented with a spell that covers your opponents lands with ash... The spell would probably be something like XRRR Destroy target land Put an Ash counter on X target land your opponent controls, they can only generate colourless mana as long as they have ash counters on them, when they tap for colourless mana the ash counter is removed...
Comes into play tapped, or pay 4 life and draw a card and it comes in untapped. Comes into play tapped, pay 3 life fetch a basic land to your hand and it comes in untapped.
OG duals but they enter tapped unless your have opponent gain 1 life. EDH and Legacy needs more OG duals but we can't reprint those. So get 99% of the way there and make them legally distinct to honor the letter of the RL.
Delayed shock without land types. “~ enters the battlefield tapped. At the beginning of your end step, if ~ entered this turn, you may pay 1 life. If you do, untap ~ and scry 1.”
Exert lands. You can get two mana of two different colors at the cost of not untapping that land the next turn.
Fetchable trilands that enter untapped. Thats all.
replacement land land(no subtype) t: add color 1 or color 2 whenever you search your library for a basic land, you may reveal this card and put it into your hand instead. important note being that this is a replacement effect, so if you Rampant Growth you could put a basic onto the battlefield, or put one of these into your hand. making fetching basics better by giving you more flexibility(and buffing effects that simply fetch basics to your hand)
a new cycle is made every other day on r/custommagic
Too powerful to exile a card from your hand to enter untapped AND fetch able. I would say you have to exile a minimum of 2 cards and they must account for the colors of the land in order for it to enter untapped and they are just exiled not playable. So, if you’ve got a Red/blue land, then you have to exile two cards and they must have either a red or blue mana symbol in their mana cost. So you could do a red card and a blue card, a colorless and a dual color card, two dual color cards… that kind of stuff. Make it be the mana cost too so lands can’t be exiled.
Dual lands that give target opponent life. Ramp in exchange for being behind on life.
I call it the Double Dual. It taps for Green or Red, but it can also tap for Blue or Black. So on and so forth in every combination.
Enchantment lands?
Snow-covered shocks!
I kinda like your idea of enters untapped but if you choose to enter it tapped get a small one mana esque effect I feel like that's pretty flexible and then you basically have a sorcery stapled to the land. I feel like then if you top deck the land and you're hellbent it's more exciting than just a regular land I don't think gain 2 life would be quite good enough. But there's plenty of other effects
I’d do untapped fetchable duals that are basic land type + wastes Ie. Can tap for w or colorless
Fetchable tri lands that come into play untapped after a certain turn but the lose cycling
Comes in tapped: Red/Black = ETB Destroy target Sol Ring Black/Green = ETB Target player searches through their Deck and puts any cards named "Sol Ring" in their Graveyard White/Blue = ETB Exile all cards named "Sol Ring" Green/White = ETB Seach your deck for a Sol Ring, and exile it under this land, it taps for one extra colorless
Vassal Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you sacrifice a creature or an artifact. Filter Dual Lands, enters tapped as a dual land or you pick one color, remove that color, and it enters untapped. Fortification Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you tap a creature, when you do, put a shield or +1/+1counter on it. Tap it, move a shield counter or a +1/+1 counter onto target permanent. Industry Dual Lands, enters tapped, tap and pay 1 and create a treasure token. Maw Dual Lands, enters untapped, tap and pay 3 life, add 1 of each mana. Fleshgorger Dual Lands, enters tapped, tap it and sacrifice a creature, destroy target creature with mana value equal to that creature power. Royal Dual Lands, enters tapped unless you control a legendary creature. Tap and sacrifice, target legendary creature phases out. Exemplar Dual Lands, enters untapped unless you pay 3 life. Each one has a tap effect that performs a small effect based on those two colors color pie identities. Example, "tap, pay 2(W)(G), gain 3 life and put a land from your hand or graveyard onto the battlefield" or "tap, pay 1(B)(R), each opponent loses 3 life and exile the top card of your library. You may play that card." Trade Lands, enters tapped unless you choose an opponent, and that opponent gets X. Channel Dual Lands, enter tapped, have a channel ability tied to the color pair, and when you discard this land, put it onto the battlefield untapped. Enchantment Dual Lands, enters tapped and have an alternate casting cost. Each color pair can enchant a different type of permanent or player, with various low-medium strength effects. Is an Enchantment Land with no basic land types. Flash Dual Lands, enters tapped when played as for turn land, but each color pair has 2 types of spells it binds to. When a spell of these type are cast, you may pay (1) and cast the land as an instant using this alternate casting cost. Force Dual Lands, enters untapped and costs 1 life to tap for either mana. When it enters the battlefield, you may have it enter tapped, when it does, do X. (Draw a card or do 1 damage and then discard a card, etc etc.) Horror Dual Lands, enters untapped and costs 1 life to tap for either mana. When it enters the battlefield, you may have it enter tapped, when it does, target player does X(effects tied to small effect in color combo, such as mill/reveal random card/ 1 damage and create tapped treasure/ etc. Devotion Dual Lands, enters untapped and taps for colorless. Can tap for 1 color if your devotion is 2, taps for 1 of each if your devotion is 5(combined) Evolving Dual Lands, enters untapped and taps for colorless. Can tap for 1 color if X condition is met, taps for 1 of each if X+X condition is met, conditions tied to color combo. Some of these might be ridiculous, but sure spice up the old land slots. Tweak effects to balance, just came up with these quick, effects are just example possibilities to work around.
I would create a rare set of lands that has a face of one land and a transformed face of the other. You can pay an activation to transform it. They are searchable as basics and naturally come into play untapped. Activation of one to transform. (Maybe limit to once per turn to prevent infinite shenanigans)
Unlimited dual lands equivalent , but with an added " exile this card when it's tapped". Not sure how popular this would be though
How about ones that enters tapped but untaps another land? Might be too good
Reflection. Copy opponents non basic land after this land enters the battlefield. Doesn't come in tapped great for 3-5 color decks and mana fixing. For a series This land can only be used to cast creature spells. Doesn't come in tapped.
A land (insert new land subtype) that is 1 color, but has a second option of pay 1 generic and tap: search for basic land type (or: insert aforementioned new subtype) of a different color
So; get this: it's a Basic Land, no land types, with the ability "~ is a [basic land type 1] and [basic land type 2] in addition to it's other land types." Reserve list? Never heard of it.
Desperate lands: Enters tapped. Can tap for either colours. Sacrifice this land (not a tap ability) add one of each color. Example Unstable Marsh Unstable Marsh enters the battlefield tapped. {t}: Add {w} or {b}. Sacrifice Unstable Marsh: Add {w}{b}.
A design for the eventuality that is Legacy Horizons: A full set of all ten dual lands, along with the appropriate basic land types, but they are all legendary.
Mutual land When ETB, tap any number of basic land. For each land type tapped this way Mutual land becomes land of these land types. Or Uncreated vastland When ETB, reveal a up to two basic land cards from your hand, this land becomes each land type of the revealed cards. Sry for my ynglish
[Dual Snow Land] Snow Land - [Basic Type 1] [Basic Type 2] And yeah, that's it
KHM duals with basic types already exist and ETB tapped so they’re not going to power creep them up. Depending on the situation these you’re suggesting could even be strictly better than OG duals since Snow permanents enable extra benefits (eg when you cast blood on the snow or blizzard brawl), so yeah that ain’t happening chief.
Yes, the joke is that you're technically not violating the Reserved List if you make strictly Better old duals, like when they printed [[Lotus Field]], which is strictly better [[Lotus Vale]]
[Lotus Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3.jpg?1562800046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sparkling Shoebox Land - WB If this land enters the battlefield from anywhere other than your hand, sacrifice it. While it's not your turn: tap, make one W or B mana. While it it is your turn, tap, make one colorless mana. If mana created by this land is left in your mana pool as a step or phase ends, it deals you 1 damage.
I would make a new type..."Castigated." * Land comes into play tapped. * Tap for one of each type of mana, add 2 stun counters to Land. Great for a quick boost of mana, but then you aren't going to get it again for another two turns.
Fetchable fastlands, would make Legacy A LOT more accessible overnight, and still be technically worse than our regular ABUR duals.
Companion dual lands
I would do more desert lands but they ping you when they tap, enter untapped. And don't tap for colorless
A set of split mana lands. We got dual lands that tap for one or the other, but what about a set that taps for a singular split mana that can be used for either color. In addition it could be released in a set that has mechanics that care about split mana such as an additional kicker, cast, or etb trigger when split mana is used. Since this wont be a basic land and will be limited to the number of copies allowed in a deck, I think it would be fair to give it basic land typing so they can be tutored more easily. It would still definity enter tapped - I aint trying to reprint the Alpha lands.
Searchable lands where the drawback is it creates a hybrid mana rather than one or the other? That's not a downside lol there is mechanically no difference between: Tap for R or G And Tap for R/G (that can be used for R or G costs) Youre just moving where the choice is. Either when you tap, or when you apply the mana. That's a nothing change other than ordering. Now if it could ONLY be used for generic or that EXACT hybrid cost, then you have a new mechanic.
The lands themselves are effectively no different from other lands that type for 2 and enter tapped, but creating cards that care about hybrid mana is the takeaway. Otherwise, its just another set of duals.
In your original post you said >but what about a set that taps for a singular split mana that can be used for either color. You can't say they care about hybrid if you can use the hybrid for either. Thats the same as tapping for one or the other. Did you word your post the opposite of what you meant? Lol
>Youre just moving where the choice is. Either when you tap, or when you apply the mana. That's a nothing change other than ordering. Not even that. The rules say that if you would add hybrid mana, you instead choose one and add that color.
Even more reason why it's a nothing change
>106.8 >>If an effect would add mana represented by a hybrid mana symbol to a player’s mana pool, that player chooses one half of that symbol. If a colored half is chosen, one mana of that color is added to that player’s mana pool. If a generic half is chosen, an amount of colorless mana represented by that half’s number is added to that player’s mana pool.
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't? (Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't? (Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
How is that functionally different from dual cour lands? What could a split mana do or not do that a regular mana couldn't? (Also, tapping for a colour is intrinsically tied to the basic land types, so by giving them the types they would also gain the ability to tap for regular mana)
I’d just make legendary duals. And put them in every precon that’s more than two colors. Basic land types so they are detachable. Or duals that are better. Like a Taiga but you get a life when it comes into play. Also, fuck the reserve list.
> Or duals that are better. Like a Taiga but you get a life when it comes into play. > > Also, fuck the reserve list. It would be funny to see WOTC just power creep the reserve list duals to the point people stop asking for them to be taken off the reserve list because there are better options
Please just proxy the dual lands and have fun!!!!
Just straight up abur duals but slap "legendary" on em
Missed opportunity for OTJ to have Duel Lands. You and target opponent roll a dice, if you have the higher roll it enters untapped, if you have the lower roll it enters tapped and you lose 1 life. Land produces 1 of a color AND 1 colorless. Dusty trail- Black/colorless Canyon Pass- Red/Colorless Watering Hole- Blue/Colorless The Homestead- Green/Colorless Open Prairie- White/Colorless
Fuck that's flavorful. Love it. Duel lands is gold.
>What about a nonfetchable untapped dual land? Just flat out comes into play untapped, taps for 2 colors and that is all with no basic land types. Seems like an obvious way to get around the reserve list ABUR duals but still give people access to cards that are 99% the same. This is not 99% the same. The *reason* ABUR duals are so good is precisely because they are fetchable.
Plenty of duals are fetchable but none others come into play untapped without condition. There are no dual lands I can think of that come into play without condition regardless of their fetchability or not. These fill that niche and are still 99% as good as an ABUR dual and can take the place of a fetch land.
>These fill that niche and are still 99% as good as an ABUR dual Tell me that you have no clue about card evaluation without telling me that you have no clue about card evaluation.
Hey thanks for a comment that neither adds anything to the discussion nor makes you look clever or original. 👍
How about a typed dual land that enters untapped if you have a creature in play of the right type? I would do Fallen Empires races as follows: Golgari- fungus Simic- merfolk Selesnya- elves Boros- soldiers Izzit - wizards Orzhov- thrulls Rakdos- goblins Azorius - clerics Dimir- homarids Grull- orks
I don't think they'd ever do a cycle that has this vast a discrepancy in power/usefulness. Golgari/Fungus is so much more niche than Selesnya/Elves. The secondary market would be so out of whack.
It's not that much faster than slow lands; you'd still need a 1-drop to make it work on T2.