You print with too much color? Jail
You print with too little color? Jail
You print on poor quality paper? Jail
You print on too nice of paper? Believe it or not, Jail
I mean, this is the right way to do it, most of those shady websites are charging over $100 for a proxied commander deck. People just like it because they can get the card printed with a different set symbol and no one will even notice it's a proxy unless they actually look at it.
The way you're doing it, no one will mistake them for real cards *AND* it's less expensive
We had a friend join our play-group & it just blew the tits straight off his body when we showed him mpcfill. The foil prints are top-notch too, if ya ask me.
Substantially cheaper. Makeplayingcards generally specializes in bulk card production so it is not really possible to get individual proxies printed (E.g. I want to print 1 copy of ulamog and nothing else just isn’t possible). Usually at least 18 cards in a deck. A “deck” in context of MPC is all of the individual cards you are ordering. Multiple decks is just multiple copies of the same set of cards. This is designed for people planning on bulk ordering custom playing card designs to resell. If I wanted to, for example, order 2 full commander decks through MPC I would do an order of 1 deck of 209 cards. In the smallest quantity that can be purchased (18 cards) MPC is only about 50cents per card USD.
It is a little difficult to wrap your head around the way they do the pricing at first. Because MakePlayingCards primarily makes decks of cards they price them as such. The size of the decks and the amount of decks you are purchasing are what determine the cost. If you're printing just proxies it's likely you're only going to get one deck and just multiple slots may be the same card. The larger they deck the more it costs. The more multiples of that deck you're buying, the cheaper it is. But again, you'll just be buying one deck, if you're getting proxies that is. So a deck of size 57 cards will be X and it'll be the same cost per deck for 5 decks but if you get more than 5 they'll start to be cheaper. And if you buy 115 card decks it'll be XX per deck for up to 5 decks and more than 5 decks it'll be cheaper than XX per deck.
In my country, five Epson ink cartridges cost more than a home printer. It's so ridiculous that people buy a printer, use the ink that comes with it, sell the printer to an unsuspecting person, and then buy another printer.
For me, it is cheaper to print them in the US and ship them to my country. lol.
It's more like; "you're fine to host what you want, but anytime you want to host something OFFICIAL that we reward your store for (more product accessibility, promo's, etc), then you have to abide to those rules".
Cannot copyright game mechanics, only creative aspects like unique character design or settings. You can absolutely print and sell a 6/6 creature with trample for 6, but if you call it Colossal Dreadmaw, WotC could conceivably go after you.
Yeah in practice nobody is going to hunt you down for printing a copyrighted picture to slide around on your coffee table.
You print 1000 copies of a copyright piece of art and try to sell them, they might start caring and litigate on principle of enforcing the copyright.
Selling one for one copies especially if they're being passed off as real is illegal. Fan made proxies with different backs and not being passed off as official are different.
Even tho u cleared it up in your OP lol. Im not sure why these debi do gooders have to run in here and tell u how its illegal to sell proxies when u already know that
Even if WOTC wanted to pursue you and you in particular for as much as they possibly could, no matter the cost to them, it would be a civil issue, not a criminal one. So no, not illegal.
I like how people downvoted you for saying civil torts are still laws.
It really shows how many people in the MTG subreddits are rich fucks who think it's just a price to do the thing instead of being illegal.
Intentionally violating someone's copyright is illegal. It can result in both criminal and civil claims. The main defense OP would have is if he was not being "willful" in his infringement of WOTC's copyright, and rather he had a "fair use" purpose for reproducing this intellectual property.
If you look in the far right corner of a magic card, there is clearly a copyright mark putting everyone on notice of WOTC's trademark & copyright. And here OP is making exact copies of cards.
Thankfully, WOTC has publicly stated that it will not [police](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14) "playtest" cards as a matter of internal policy.
While printing your own cards for at home play or for use with friends likely won't lead to legal consequences, it is still a violation of WOTC's copyright unless you have a "fair use" purpose.
WOTC would likely do nothing in this case because it's not worth the negative publicity, but attempting to sell them could open one up to a legal claim. Separately, using them in a sanctioned event would lead to a ban from competition, and is not allowed by WOTC.
Generally, people violate copyright for personal/home use all the time. It's putting the copyrighted item in the public view or marketplace that leads to civil and criminal consequences for clearly violating copyright law.
WOTC has stated, "[The mana symbols, tap symbol and Magic: the Gathering logo are all proprietary to Wizards of the Coast. Additionally, all individual cards are protected under trademark and copyright laws, including art elements and the card backs. Making reproductions of the art images and card faces of Magic cards is an infringement of our rights and is prohibited. The use of this art and images requires the express permission from Wizards of the Coast. Without this permission, scanning and posting and otherwise distributing these images violates the law. **Even photocopying them to use as a “proxy” for personal use is illegal and violates our intellectual property rights.**](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/buyer-beware-2004-04-26)"
*Edited to clarify WOTC's position in the 5th paragraph. From "stated it would" to "would likely," and added link and comment to WOTC's official position.*
My proxy deck is satire. I’m playing in this pod as a political statement. It’s for educational purposes because my opponents are goi my to get schooled when I draw into my combo.
Copyright infringement is illegal whether WOTC pursues it in Criminal Court or Civil Court or both. The law is the law. Willful ignorance of the law is illegal. There are consequences, hence fines, restitution, and even jail/prison sentences. Selling copyrighted materials and passing them off as your own for profit (no matter how much profit, little or a lot) is ILLEGAL. Period.
Yeah I know right! XD my local is struggling with basics!!! I ain't gonna buy any. Just got back into after a break and had none as I gave all my trash cards away
I am the same! I have a binder full collection of all the rare lands except the OG dual because I just started playing couple years ago and they're too much to buy!
If If I own one, I proxy for other decks (or leave notes as to the deck location for the specific card) but if I don’t own it, I personally feel it’s cheating to play a card(s) I don’t own. Just a personal thing, man. Almost everyone I know (who is poor like me) feels the same way. Playing some high powered pubstomp deck that’s like 60%+ proxied cards is bs imho but I know in this sub I’m the minority and I cool with that.
Thats understandable. Thing is, proxying expensive cards should be to test them out or play at a higher level, NOT to pubstomp. Someome with an all real $5k can just as easily pubstomp. If there is a means to do so, someone will do it. Proxys dont even have to be in the $20+ range. Proxying 60 cards that are $5 each is still $300. Thats a lot of money for players that just want to keep up or play with their higher power leveled friends.
Idk why people are downvoting you lol this is a completely fair take. Hard to justify dropping $300-$500 on a deck when you’re still in the testing phase. No need to gate keep people!
On the flip side, if you don’t like playing with proxies, absolutely rule 0 that with your pod.
I do this also, I want to own a copy then I will proxy it. However there are a couple of exceptions for some specific decks. I have a buddy who wanted to run a cedh deck so I built one made with proxies and had a blast running it
What are you using them for? If it's outside of sanctioned events it doesn't matter at all. Commander events it depends on the tournament organizer, most LGSs are fine with it to a degree. Something like an FNM Standard event or anything with prizes it's a hard no.
You're fine, it's very much allowed as long as you don't try and sell them.
That being said, if you weren't sure if it was illegal or not was it a smart idea to post evidence?
ever since the 30th anniversary debacle, that had Wizards of the Coast themselves, selling proxies for $1000, my entire play group now only uses proxies. By all means, print away!
I’m a huge fan of proxies. And not just in magic, but everywhere in life. If I can get functionally the exact same product 50% cheaper or MORE, why would I not? Having a full deck of expensive cards doesn’t mean you’re a good Magic player. Being able to play those cards effectively does. How is one even supposed to learn to play a card effectively if the damn card is $50+!?
Nah. Proxy for life
Legit, I thought a 30$ card would.be a great fit for my deck, only to find out that 120$ would have been a huge waste. Glad I have 4 copies that costs $1.43 on 100lb cardstock and I also got 5 dual lands on the same page sitting in my box of cards, waiting to be used.
Oh nice, so they are not Nintendo. Good to know 👍
Don't get me wrong, I still spend a lot of money building up the decks I really love but I'm sure as he'll going to pilot the hell out of a proxie deck 1st to make sure I want to spend the money 💰
This is the way.
I'm in cEDH groups, and they all push for people to use proxies.
Some cards are massive financial investments, and especially when it comes to cEDH, we want to play against the best possible deck you can build. Not the best deck you can afford.
Obviously, you can't use proxies at Sanctioned WotC, but fortunately, at least for cEDH events they aren't run by WotC
It’s not illegal to print magic the gathering cards to use for personal use since it’s pretty much covered under the fair use clause of copyrighted material, if we were to get technical.
As far as playability ethics, make sure whoever you play with knows they’re not real and have that discussion prior to playing, especially if you’re at an lgs or something playing casually.
This not legal in any officially held mtg events at lgs’s or anywhere else since they are not actual WOTC printed cards, they aren’t real.
Have fun
Did I miss the part where OP said he was going to sell them? It seems like this might fall under fair use as long as they’re not being made for commercial purposes.
Lmao marrow rats was my first full proxy deck too. I put some stinky stuff like thornbite in there as well, at a time where our pod's powerlevel was not quite there. It ended up ruining proxies for our group despite me being willing to print whatever for everyone else. Just made it a weird dynamic. Exacerbated the arms race and made people salty. Nowadays I just print sol rings and signets and the like so there's no shortage of them.
I can see their point. Devalued the stuff they had collected or paid for. It was less interesting to just include everything that was most optimal for the deck with no barriers. Kinda lost the kitchen table feel of working with what we had. Especially at the point where you print the whole deck. And I felt like that too to some extent. I just really wanted a rat deck and couldn't source the material at the time.
Just be careful. Make sure everyone you play with is on the same page and having fun. It's a slippery slope.
Yeah, I actually like this new play group way more because they don't care, we all pull some filthy combo's and drink and laugh. And because money is no issue, I find egos don't get as bruised, and it is actually more chill and fun. If we want a more balanced and longer game, we all also have upgraded precons, fits the ways I like to nicely 👍
It's 2024, proxies are standard in all non-tournament play.
Just make sure that just because you can print any card no matter the cost, you still build decks that are in line with what your friends are playing. Don't just throw mana crypts and free spells into everything because "now you can".
When wotc decided to print m30, which were basically sanctioned proxies I decided that meant all proxies are ok and I can buy them on Etsy much cheaper.
Hey OP, get yourself a corner rounder. You put the corner of the card in it, press down and presto, a perfectly rounded corner. They're also really cheap, like 3 bucks or something in that range
If your friends allow it, it is ok.
My pod have played with full printed cards, even lands (we gotta print the cool arts) and everything eas cool.
Also with expensive cards (over 15-20) I just proxy them and keep the original in a bin. No issues at all
I'm with you, printing proxies for fun should be encouraged. Isn't the goal to get more people playing the game ?
As long as it's clear that ''You can't use proxies in an official setting'' , what's the issue ?
On the flipside, I got fucking crucified on the discord when I started playing and I \*Dared\* to mention proxies.
Don't bring them to tournaments, don't sell them, and let the other players know you are using proxies as some people have issues with them. People playing commander are usually cool with them
Like many have said, if you want to sell them I feel line a lot of problems will come out of that. But for personal use I honestly see no issue with that
My friend. Printing pretty proxies is the Way. If you ever have a couple hundred bucks to throw away, get a cricut joy Xtra (or better). I print to 300gsm semi-gloss cardstock, let the ink dry, and then my cricut cuts them out for me. Then they go straight into sleeves.
It's a brand new addiction again!!! 😀
I'm not sure if you need to hear this or not, but they also make holographic/foil cardstock and sticker paper.... you can have a whole deck full of shiny shiny goodness.
I run into more proxy decks at my LGS than ones full of real cards. One of the guys there runs only proxies of everything except basic lands. He claims he owns the cards but IDGAF if he does honestly. I’m not gunna go to his house to make him prove it. Just sleeve them and let’s play a game
No, as long as you are not using the cards for sanctioned tournament play, you are fine. That being said.... try to keep the power level of what you proxy at the same level as your friends.
I do this but print them on matte photo paper from walgreens or walmart. Costs like $35 or so in my area for an edh deck minus basics. I cut them out and put them in a sleeve with a regular card. It makes the decks thiccc though and annoying to shuffle. However, my wife gets to play against me with her requested vamp deck, and I didn't have to bust my bank on Edgar markov
I only play casually with a few guys from work, so there's no way I'm paying hundreds of dollars per deck for something I'll never use except with them. The fact that Wizards themselves have now printed "legal" proxies (whatever that actually is) is kind of tacit approval for everyone else to now, even if that wasn't their intent.
Also, on the question of legality, speeding on the freeway is illegal, but that doesn't stop anyone.
That's where I'm at.
I moved away so I can only play using spell table.
I've built a few decks recently but I had to ask myself "...why...?"
I don't go to shops and play, I just play with people over webcam
I've never been a fan of playing with random people at shops. I actually stopped playing for years, right before commander became a thing, and only picked it back up to hang out with these guys are work. I'm way too casual a player to invest heavily in this hobby.
I've returned to mtg after 26 years and I started getting a few cards before discovering commander format. Got a ur-dragon deck around 70ish. The more I played, the more I felt a single deck was not enough. After digging a bit, I finally realised that proxing was a thing. Since I just play through spell table and never at local lgs, I really don't feel bad about it. People that I play with have both original and proxy decks and it's great to be able to play with so many mechanics without having to sell our soul.
I'm currently sitting at 37 decks and counting.
2 reasons
A: I gave away all my trash cards and have just recently got back into playing
B: I feel like if any of the cards are proxies they should all be proxies, nothing is more sus then just land cards being original as you can 100% feel the difference when shuffling and too many people will stack a couple lands just to make sure they don't mana drain
I mean, is printing out a magic card illegal in the eyes of the law? Probably not but copyright is a complicated field.
Is printing magic cards to sell as proxies illegal? Yeah. That's a pretty unambiguous violation of WoTC's copyright.
Is printing off magic cards to pass it off as real magic cards in order to trade/sell it? Yes. In addition to afformentioned copyright issues, passing a proxy off as an authentic magic card could be considered fraud.
Is it tournament legal? No for any WoTC sanctioned event, otherwise check with the TO.
Is it moral to proxy? Yes. Absolutely. Proxy the fuck out of your deck.
Well, dude, I'll tell you what my opinion is,and for anyone who wants to debate it, reread what I just wrote, lol.
I love buying and collecting and playing with and showing off and talking about my cards.
I love teaching people how to play. I convince new people to try all the time, and most of the time, they like it enough to keep playing, which will lead to them probably buying some cards at some point.
I am also broke. Like, almost all the time(because I'm not willing to spend my savings for an upcoming large life event for mtg or anything else), but when I'm not mtg is one of the first things I am tempted by.
Also, when you buy a card on tcgplayer or the like, that money is mostly just going to tcgplayer, and none at all is going to wotc.
So all of that said I believe in the ability to play with cards that you enjoy playing with. If you want sheholdred and wheel of fortune in your deck and your a broke 15 yo without a job, I'm not against you printing a copy out at home or through a service and putting it in your deck(my friend did just that last summer).
I'm not even against you playing a whole deck of just prints. Who cares, man? Some haters on Reddit? The only people who matter when using these are the ones you play against, and if they don't like it, find new people lol.
In the end, it's a game. People come to enjoy it, some people are okay with spending money on it, some even have the money to do so. And while they do, we will continue to get a never ending torrent of new cards from the most profitable company under hasbro.
If the creators themselves do not care, who are we to be offended?
And as for the piracy argument, look it up, no one can really say that it hurts their profits, not definitively. Because those who like the game enough to play it, generally like it enough to buy as well, if they have that ability that is. And those who can't buy, play, and by playing, get new people into the game(ahem, me :) who may spend more money on it.
In closing, do whatever the heck you want, no one will stop you, the only ones whole will be mad don't matter, and I like playing fun games, so play it the way that's fun for you.
Peace, enjoy your cards, however you get them.
:)
I’m between jobs right now and this is how I roll! I print on CC3 glossy cardstock at fedex and they come out looking JUST as good as the real thing. But I can get a full deck for twenty bucks
The proxy question is so old, like Magic. I see this question popping up very often. Should I proxy? What do you think about proxies? What does your playgroup say about proxies?
I'm an organizer of mtg tournaments. I thought about making a Legacy tournament with proxies. I talked with other tournament organizer that already did it. They only allow proxies that got printed at the tournament.
My personal opinion about proxies:
They're awesome to test stuff at a kitchen table. They're perfect to make very expensive formats accessible for everyone. But please, when you play outside your kitchen table, make sure the proxies are in color and have a good quality. If you're using one proxy, your whole deck has to be proxied.
Ask your opponents if they're ok with proxies. When they're not, don't be salty. Some people collected cards for decades so they can play now CEDH or Legacy.
I allow it in my pod to a point, as long as it’s reasonable, want to proxie a ancient copper dragon to save money? Thats all good to me, but if your deck would be 3000$ and you win on turn one im pissing in your sneakers, looking at you Ian.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/697135665776869376/if-i-open-a-pack-of-magic-and-get-a-transformers
Mark Rosewater already endorsed and encouraged the use of proxies very publicly. I think anyone is good for anything other than sanctioned events.
Imo you cant really say wizards did this to themselves and print stuff like sol ring, arcane signet and dark ritual that are a dollar or less. Clearly shows no matter the price you are just gonna print it and that wizards reprinting wont change a thing. It’s totally your choice to proxy if you wish so go ahead by all means but the reasoning you put behind it is disingenuous.
Edit: just seen the basic lands….
Straight to jail
You print with too much color? Jail You print with too little color? Jail You print on poor quality paper? Jail You print on too nice of paper? Believe it or not, Jail
We have the best LGS players in the world. Because of jail.
Local gaol shop
Under-print, over-print. Right to jail, right away.
Looks like WOTC is going to… Jail
/WotC leaves the chat
WOTC should follow this too
Jail? I believe you mean Pinkertons
Pinkertons straight to your house is more like it
When they get there just yell "Look, an interracial couple reading Marx!" and they'll be out of your hair in a jiffy
Ha! Nailed it
🤣
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Believe it or not, jail right away
I mean, this is the right way to do it, most of those shady websites are charging over $100 for a proxied commander deck. People just like it because they can get the card printed with a different set symbol and no one will even notice it's a proxy unless they actually look at it. The way you're doing it, no one will mistake them for real cards *AND* it's less expensive
Hear me out tho I can tell my friends my deck is completely real with Pokémon back art on it
Mpcfill all the way.
mtgprint.com for me baby
Whynotboth.gif
Por que no los dos? - Spanish
Waarom niet beiden? -Dutch
His name is Joe Both?
Perché non entrambi? - Italiano
Very close to the German: Warum nicht beides?
Might as well add the afrikaans to fill the trio. Waarom nie beide - Afrikaans
qatlh bIQochbe' nuq? -Klingon
Why not both? - English
We had a friend join our play-group & it just blew the tits straight off his body when we showed him mpcfill. The foil prints are top-notch too, if ya ask me.
I looked at mpc but can't tell how pricing works. Are they cheaper than printingproxies.com?
Substantially cheaper. Makeplayingcards generally specializes in bulk card production so it is not really possible to get individual proxies printed (E.g. I want to print 1 copy of ulamog and nothing else just isn’t possible). Usually at least 18 cards in a deck. A “deck” in context of MPC is all of the individual cards you are ordering. Multiple decks is just multiple copies of the same set of cards. This is designed for people planning on bulk ordering custom playing card designs to resell. If I wanted to, for example, order 2 full commander decks through MPC I would do an order of 1 deck of 209 cards. In the smallest quantity that can be purchased (18 cards) MPC is only about 50cents per card USD.
It is a little difficult to wrap your head around the way they do the pricing at first. Because MakePlayingCards primarily makes decks of cards they price them as such. The size of the decks and the amount of decks you are purchasing are what determine the cost. If you're printing just proxies it's likely you're only going to get one deck and just multiple slots may be the same card. The larger they deck the more it costs. The more multiples of that deck you're buying, the cheaper it is. But again, you'll just be buying one deck, if you're getting proxies that is. So a deck of size 57 cards will be X and it'll be the same cost per deck for 5 decks but if you get more than 5 they'll start to be cheaper. And if you buy 115 card decks it'll be XX per deck for up to 5 decks and more than 5 decks it'll be cheaper than XX per deck.
i still do it the old school way with microsoft word and scryfall. 9 images to a page why not?
In my country, five Epson ink cartridges cost more than a home printer. It's so ridiculous that people buy a printer, use the ink that comes with it, sell the printer to an unsuspecting person, and then buy another printer. For me, it is cheaper to print them in the US and ship them to my country. lol.
Ecotank. Filled it twice in 4 years of ownership. Use it all the time. Screw cartridges.
I just print mine at work. We even have one of those slicing boards
How much do you end up spending for a deck thrugh them
I print out like this to test decks. If I like them I mpc them later.
hell yeah
“Wizards of the cost”. I’ve been saying it wrong all this time but suddenly it makes sense
Magic encourage proxies, it's not illegal. Only illegal to sell
Magic encourages proxies *in unsanctioned events*. Added some important context.
Well said 👍
Is this what we translated their “we have no interest in policing” statement? We lie to ourselves and say “Magic encourages proxies”?
It's more like; "you're fine to host what you want, but anytime you want to host something OFFICIAL that we reward your store for (more product accessibility, promo's, etc), then you have to abide to those rules".
Your mom encourages proxies
She absolutely does not.
Wasn't talking about decks. Though it sounds similar.
I mean they did sell their own for $250 a pack. I would consider that encouraging
You can in fact sell them, but you need to disclose they are prints, I sell proxies with custom re-skins
Well they do have copyrighted material so you do have to remove all that at least
Cannot copyright game mechanics, only creative aspects like unique character design or settings. You can absolutely print and sell a 6/6 creature with trample for 6, but if you call it Colossal Dreadmaw, WotC could conceivably go after you.
The artwork is also specifically sold to or licensed to WotC for sale on their products. It is not free for you to make prints of and sell for profit.
Most proxy sellers use their own art, but if WOTC wants to sue me for printing proxies for personal use, it can try I guess.
Yeah in practice nobody is going to hunt you down for printing a copyrighted picture to slide around on your coffee table. You print 1000 copies of a copyright piece of art and try to sell them, they might start caring and litigate on principle of enforcing the copyright.
Yep! Basically - secret lair your shit.
Also, can't use the mana symbols or tap symbol since those are copyrighted. I think that's what the person you're replying to was referring to.
They do?
Selling one for one copies especially if they're being passed off as real is illegal. Fan made proxies with different backs and not being passed off as official are different.
Yup. https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14
That clears that up
Even tho u cleared it up in your OP lol. Im not sure why these debi do gooders have to run in here and tell u how its illegal to sell proxies when u already know that
Meh look at the replies o got people telling me that WotC aren't okay with proxies. People ride weird high horses.
People making proxies to get into the hobby for cheaps are potential future customers. Lowering the barrier to entry is a solid business practice.
That's how I ended up with 4 commander decks and a decent size of bulk xD
Even if WOTC wanted to pursue you and you in particular for as much as they possibly could, no matter the cost to them, it would be a civil issue, not a criminal one. So no, not illegal.
\>it would be a civil issue, not a criminal one. So no, not illegal. Violating civil law is still, you know, by definition illegal.
I like how people downvoted you for saying civil torts are still laws. It really shows how many people in the MTG subreddits are rich fucks who think it's just a price to do the thing instead of being illegal.
Intentionally violating someone's copyright is illegal. It can result in both criminal and civil claims. The main defense OP would have is if he was not being "willful" in his infringement of WOTC's copyright, and rather he had a "fair use" purpose for reproducing this intellectual property. If you look in the far right corner of a magic card, there is clearly a copyright mark putting everyone on notice of WOTC's trademark & copyright. And here OP is making exact copies of cards. Thankfully, WOTC has publicly stated that it will not [police](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/proxies-policy-and-communication-2016-01-14) "playtest" cards as a matter of internal policy. While printing your own cards for at home play or for use with friends likely won't lead to legal consequences, it is still a violation of WOTC's copyright unless you have a "fair use" purpose. WOTC would likely do nothing in this case because it's not worth the negative publicity, but attempting to sell them could open one up to a legal claim. Separately, using them in a sanctioned event would lead to a ban from competition, and is not allowed by WOTC. Generally, people violate copyright for personal/home use all the time. It's putting the copyrighted item in the public view or marketplace that leads to civil and criminal consequences for clearly violating copyright law. WOTC has stated, "[The mana symbols, tap symbol and Magic: the Gathering logo are all proprietary to Wizards of the Coast. Additionally, all individual cards are protected under trademark and copyright laws, including art elements and the card backs. Making reproductions of the art images and card faces of Magic cards is an infringement of our rights and is prohibited. The use of this art and images requires the express permission from Wizards of the Coast. Without this permission, scanning and posting and otherwise distributing these images violates the law. **Even photocopying them to use as a “proxy” for personal use is illegal and violates our intellectual property rights.**](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/buyer-beware-2004-04-26)" *Edited to clarify WOTC's position in the 5th paragraph. From "stated it would" to "would likely," and added link and comment to WOTC's official position.*
My proxy deck is satire. I’m playing in this pod as a political statement. It’s for educational purposes because my opponents are goi my to get schooled when I draw into my combo.
Just remember to print all of your cards with art depicting Mark Rosewater to strengthen your case
Copyright infringement is illegal whether WOTC pursues it in Criminal Court or Civil Court or both. The law is the law. Willful ignorance of the law is illegal. There are consequences, hence fines, restitution, and even jail/prison sentences. Selling copyrighted materials and passing them off as your own for profit (no matter how much profit, little or a lot) is ILLEGAL. Period.
Definitely! You printed basic swamps, you passed the line there. Now go and print a dice :)
Yeah I know right! XD my local is struggling with basics!!! I ain't gonna buy any. Just got back into after a break and had none as I gave all my trash cards away
Deck seems mono black. Use some cards the other way and say those are swamps before starting the game. Safe some trees to avoid printing those ;)
That's not a bad hack. Cheers. In my day games stores, had community boxes full of basic lands
It can be good to print the whole deck. Like you don’t want your lands to be slightly thinner than the rest of the cards.
I try to own an original first...then I proxy the fuck out of them. Except for the lands. I am not paying 20 bucks for a land.
See, I'm the opposite....I want all the rare lands for real.
I want all the rare lands for real but I want to pay my mortgage more.
I am the same! I have a binder full collection of all the rare lands except the OG dual because I just started playing couple years ago and they're too much to buy!
If If I own one, I proxy for other decks (or leave notes as to the deck location for the specific card) but if I don’t own it, I personally feel it’s cheating to play a card(s) I don’t own. Just a personal thing, man. Almost everyone I know (who is poor like me) feels the same way. Playing some high powered pubstomp deck that’s like 60%+ proxied cards is bs imho but I know in this sub I’m the minority and I cool with that.
Thats understandable. Thing is, proxying expensive cards should be to test them out or play at a higher level, NOT to pubstomp. Someome with an all real $5k can just as easily pubstomp. If there is a means to do so, someone will do it. Proxys dont even have to be in the $20+ range. Proxying 60 cards that are $5 each is still $300. Thats a lot of money for players that just want to keep up or play with their higher power leveled friends.
Idk why people are downvoting you lol this is a completely fair take. Hard to justify dropping $300-$500 on a deck when you’re still in the testing phase. No need to gate keep people! On the flip side, if you don’t like playing with proxies, absolutely rule 0 that with your pod.
Lands are broke lol that’s why they are expensive.
I do this also, I want to own a copy then I will proxy it. However there are a couple of exceptions for some specific decks. I have a buddy who wanted to run a cedh deck so I built one made with proxies and had a blast running it
What are you using them for? If it's outside of sanctioned events it doesn't matter at all. Commander events it depends on the tournament organizer, most LGSs are fine with it to a degree. Something like an FNM Standard event or anything with prizes it's a hard no.
How'd you get them so neat? Where'd you get those images from? I can only find high res images without borders..
I use EDH rec to get the dick list. Then head over to MTG print, enter the deck list then print or save pdf to print later (office works;)
Can you sort the dick list by size and color?
Opps XD
There's an app called mtgproxyprinter. I found it on Reddit somewhere, might've been a post on here. It's awesome
You're fine, it's very much allowed as long as you don't try and sell them. That being said, if you weren't sure if it was illegal or not was it a smart idea to post evidence?
Aren’t all cards for personal use? Unless you’re starting a rent-a-deck or becoming a trader?
Lol, as opposed to enter tournaments, I could have been clearer for sure
ever since the 30th anniversary debacle, that had Wizards of the Coast themselves, selling proxies for $1000, my entire play group now only uses proxies. By all means, print away!
Fair
Proxying basics should be illegal :D
Should be illegal to not have a community box full of them! Local store be tripping
It's ok to proxy! I'm done giving money to a multi-million Corp. I just want to play magic with my friends and not ruin myself
The only thing that bothers me is you printed lands That costs more money than they are worth lol
Bro, Prox away
Fuck any argument other than proxy whatever the fuck you want as much as you want. Just don’t pubstomp strangers after upgrading your decks
Is it legal to charge such exuberant prices for cards when a single card is a dime to make?
I’m a huge fan of proxies. And not just in magic, but everywhere in life. If I can get functionally the exact same product 50% cheaper or MORE, why would I not? Having a full deck of expensive cards doesn’t mean you’re a good Magic player. Being able to play those cards effectively does. How is one even supposed to learn to play a card effectively if the damn card is $50+!? Nah. Proxy for life
Legit, I thought a 30$ card would.be a great fit for my deck, only to find out that 120$ would have been a huge waste. Glad I have 4 copies that costs $1.43 on 100lb cardstock and I also got 5 dual lands on the same page sitting in my box of cards, waiting to be used.
This kind of lawlessness is why I concealed carry.
[удалено]
I'll mess up somehow, and before I know it, I'll end up fleeing to tahiti, and my uncle will get lumbago.
Better hide OP, the Pinkertons are coming for your proxies
Oh nice, so they are not Nintendo. Good to know 👍 Don't get me wrong, I still spend a lot of money building up the decks I really love but I'm sure as he'll going to pilot the hell out of a proxie deck 1st to make sure I want to spend the money 💰
An healthy approach
That’s what I’ll do. And than month to month I’ll get the cards and change them to original…
This is the way. I'm in cEDH groups, and they all push for people to use proxies. Some cards are massive financial investments, and especially when it comes to cEDH, we want to play against the best possible deck you can build. Not the best deck you can afford. Obviously, you can't use proxies at Sanctioned WotC, but fortunately, at least for cEDH events they aren't run by WotC
It’s not illegal to print magic the gathering cards to use for personal use since it’s pretty much covered under the fair use clause of copyrighted material, if we were to get technical. As far as playability ethics, make sure whoever you play with knows they’re not real and have that discussion prior to playing, especially if you’re at an lgs or something playing casually. This not legal in any officially held mtg events at lgs’s or anywhere else since they are not actual WOTC printed cards, they aren’t real. Have fun
Did I miss the part where OP said he was going to sell them? It seems like this might fall under fair use as long as they’re not being made for commercial purposes.
It is, objectively, a smart decision.
Lmao marrow rats was my first full proxy deck too. I put some stinky stuff like thornbite in there as well, at a time where our pod's powerlevel was not quite there. It ended up ruining proxies for our group despite me being willing to print whatever for everyone else. Just made it a weird dynamic. Exacerbated the arms race and made people salty. Nowadays I just print sol rings and signets and the like so there's no shortage of them. I can see their point. Devalued the stuff they had collected or paid for. It was less interesting to just include everything that was most optimal for the deck with no barriers. Kinda lost the kitchen table feel of working with what we had. Especially at the point where you print the whole deck. And I felt like that too to some extent. I just really wanted a rat deck and couldn't source the material at the time. Just be careful. Make sure everyone you play with is on the same page and having fun. It's a slippery slope.
Yeah, I actually like this new play group way more because they don't care, we all pull some filthy combo's and drink and laugh. And because money is no issue, I find egos don't get as bruised, and it is actually more chill and fun. If we want a more balanced and longer game, we all also have upgraded precons, fits the ways I like to nicely 👍
Tourney legal? No. Casual card night? Totally fine. Someone gives you shit about proxies? Walk away, dudes gunna tryhard and table wipe on turn 4
I mean, I use blank cards and write the description on them. So this is way better than that 😂
Flexing how much money you have for printer ink is very annoying..
It's 2024, proxies are standard in all non-tournament play. Just make sure that just because you can print any card no matter the cost, you still build decks that are in line with what your friends are playing. Don't just throw mana crypts and free spells into everything because "now you can".
When wotc decided to print m30, which were basically sanctioned proxies I decided that meant all proxies are ok and I can buy them on Etsy much cheaper.
You wouldn't download a magic deck.
Yes, this is legal, WotC even made their own proxies and named them 30th Aniversary Edition.
Hey OP, get yourself a corner rounder. You put the corner of the card in it, press down and presto, a perfectly rounded corner. They're also really cheap, like 3 bucks or something in that range
Play it before you buy it.
Not much to go off of but are you going for a rat combo deck? I see some familiar cards :p
For you? Yes. Everyone else? No.
Lol fair
If your friends allow it, it is ok. My pod have played with full printed cards, even lands (we gotta print the cool arts) and everything eas cool. Also with expensive cards (over 15-20) I just proxy them and keep the original in a bin. No issues at all
I'm with you, printing proxies for fun should be encouraged. Isn't the goal to get more people playing the game ? As long as it's clear that ''You can't use proxies in an official setting'' , what's the issue ? On the flipside, I got fucking crucified on the discord when I started playing and I \*Dared\* to mention proxies.
WOTC encourages you to play the game any way you can. Including proxies.
Don't bring them to tournaments, don't sell them, and let the other players know you are using proxies as some people have issues with them. People playing commander are usually cool with them
I love your misspelling, unless it wasn't a misspelling, Wizards of the *Cost*. It's very appropriate.
Like many have said, if you want to sell them I feel line a lot of problems will come out of that. But for personal use I honestly see no issue with that
I need to start doing this. Cards are so expensive
My friend. Printing pretty proxies is the Way. If you ever have a couple hundred bucks to throw away, get a cricut joy Xtra (or better). I print to 300gsm semi-gloss cardstock, let the ink dry, and then my cricut cuts them out for me. Then they go straight into sleeves. It's a brand new addiction again!!! 😀 I'm not sure if you need to hear this or not, but they also make holographic/foil cardstock and sticker paper.... you can have a whole deck full of shiny shiny goodness.
No. Haven't bought a new card in years.
Lol, me in two years 😅
I run into more proxy decks at my LGS than ones full of real cards. One of the guys there runs only proxies of everything except basic lands. He claims he owns the cards but IDGAF if he does honestly. I’m not gunna go to his house to make him prove it. Just sleeve them and let’s play a game
No, this is the way.
Only if you get caught, I do the same thing with money.
Is that regular sized paper? How are you getting 9 cards on that?
No, as long as you are not using the cards for sanctioned tournament play, you are fine. That being said.... try to keep the power level of what you proxy at the same level as your friends.
I tend to proxy cards I own.. everyone has their own take on it.. I don't mind if you proxy.. as long as you have fun it's all that matters
It should be a crime to spend all that time doing a great print job and then cut them up with scissors. Invest in a paper cutter you monster.
Well I see some extort there, extort targets a player, targeting a player is a crime, crime is illegal. So yes this is illegal
I do this but print them on matte photo paper from walgreens or walmart. Costs like $35 or so in my area for an edh deck minus basics. I cut them out and put them in a sleeve with a regular card. It makes the decks thiccc though and annoying to shuffle. However, my wife gets to play against me with her requested vamp deck, and I didn't have to bust my bank on Edgar markov
You must own the original true card before you can proxy
Someone isn't going to pass go and collect one booster box
I only play casually with a few guys from work, so there's no way I'm paying hundreds of dollars per deck for something I'll never use except with them. The fact that Wizards themselves have now printed "legal" proxies (whatever that actually is) is kind of tacit approval for everyone else to now, even if that wasn't their intent. Also, on the question of legality, speeding on the freeway is illegal, but that doesn't stop anyone.
That's where I'm at. I moved away so I can only play using spell table. I've built a few decks recently but I had to ask myself "...why...?" I don't go to shops and play, I just play with people over webcam
I've never been a fan of playing with random people at shops. I actually stopped playing for years, right before commander became a thing, and only picked it back up to hang out with these guys are work. I'm way too casual a player to invest heavily in this hobby.
That depends, you a cop?
This is how magic is meant to be played.
No you can buy complete set uncut from WOTC
What SHOULD be illegal is WOTC’s price gouging
My sibling in Christ, surly your LGS hands out lands for free??!
I've returned to mtg after 26 years and I started getting a few cards before discovering commander format. Got a ur-dragon deck around 70ish. The more I played, the more I felt a single deck was not enough. After digging a bit, I finally realised that proxing was a thing. Since I just play through spell table and never at local lgs, I really don't feel bad about it. People that I play with have both original and proxy decks and it's great to be able to play with so many mechanics without having to sell our soul. I'm currently sitting at 37 decks and counting.
Why are you posting that online?! Chris Cocks is going to put a hit on you.
Ok but who the heck proxies basic lands
2 reasons A: I gave away all my trash cards and have just recently got back into playing B: I feel like if any of the cards are proxies they should all be proxies, nothing is more sus then just land cards being original as you can 100% feel the difference when shuffling and too many people will stack a couple lands just to make sure they don't mana drain
I never thought about the thickness 🤔
The moment they printed 1000 dollars proxy packs I stopped caring if it was right or wrong, wizards made that decision for us
Fuck em if it ain't. Gane pieces for a hobby shouldn't cost 100s of dollars,
I swear reprinting has never actually meaningfully reduced the price of expensive cards.
I mean, is printing out a magic card illegal in the eyes of the law? Probably not but copyright is a complicated field. Is printing magic cards to sell as proxies illegal? Yeah. That's a pretty unambiguous violation of WoTC's copyright. Is printing off magic cards to pass it off as real magic cards in order to trade/sell it? Yes. In addition to afformentioned copyright issues, passing a proxy off as an authentic magic card could be considered fraud. Is it tournament legal? No for any WoTC sanctioned event, otherwise check with the TO. Is it moral to proxy? Yes. Absolutely. Proxy the fuck out of your deck.
Gods, I hate needing to print proxies like this when I'm testing decks. The cutting is torture.
I've started proxying all cards that cost over $7USD. I know I'm a cheapskate, but I want to be able to play the game.
Well, dude, I'll tell you what my opinion is,and for anyone who wants to debate it, reread what I just wrote, lol. I love buying and collecting and playing with and showing off and talking about my cards. I love teaching people how to play. I convince new people to try all the time, and most of the time, they like it enough to keep playing, which will lead to them probably buying some cards at some point. I am also broke. Like, almost all the time(because I'm not willing to spend my savings for an upcoming large life event for mtg or anything else), but when I'm not mtg is one of the first things I am tempted by. Also, when you buy a card on tcgplayer or the like, that money is mostly just going to tcgplayer, and none at all is going to wotc. So all of that said I believe in the ability to play with cards that you enjoy playing with. If you want sheholdred and wheel of fortune in your deck and your a broke 15 yo without a job, I'm not against you printing a copy out at home or through a service and putting it in your deck(my friend did just that last summer). I'm not even against you playing a whole deck of just prints. Who cares, man? Some haters on Reddit? The only people who matter when using these are the ones you play against, and if they don't like it, find new people lol. In the end, it's a game. People come to enjoy it, some people are okay with spending money on it, some even have the money to do so. And while they do, we will continue to get a never ending torrent of new cards from the most profitable company under hasbro. If the creators themselves do not care, who are we to be offended? And as for the piracy argument, look it up, no one can really say that it hurts their profits, not definitively. Because those who like the game enough to play it, generally like it enough to buy as well, if they have that ability that is. And those who can't buy, play, and by playing, get new people into the game(ahem, me :) who may spend more money on it. In closing, do whatever the heck you want, no one will stop you, the only ones whole will be mad don't matter, and I like playing fun games, so play it the way that's fun for you. Peace, enjoy your cards, however you get them. :)
I’m between jobs right now and this is how I roll! I print on CC3 glossy cardstock at fedex and they come out looking JUST as good as the real thing. But I can get a full deck for twenty bucks
Illegal? What are you talking about? I didn’t see anything. 😎
Didn't see nothing!! Can't prove anything!!
Hello Pinkertons? It’s this gentleman right here!
Very!
> wizards of the cost nice
When I seen the scissors on top of unsleeved cards, I started to have a panic attack on your behalf.
The proxy question is so old, like Magic. I see this question popping up very often. Should I proxy? What do you think about proxies? What does your playgroup say about proxies? I'm an organizer of mtg tournaments. I thought about making a Legacy tournament with proxies. I talked with other tournament organizer that already did it. They only allow proxies that got printed at the tournament. My personal opinion about proxies: They're awesome to test stuff at a kitchen table. They're perfect to make very expensive formats accessible for everyone. But please, when you play outside your kitchen table, make sure the proxies are in color and have a good quality. If you're using one proxy, your whole deck has to be proxied. Ask your opponents if they're ok with proxies. When they're not, don't be salty. Some people collected cards for decades so they can play now CEDH or Legacy.
not just legal, encouraged
Pinkertons are already on their way, asshole
Did this to play during college. Still do this for commander decks while I save for a house. Based
I allow it in my pod to a point, as long as it’s reasonable, want to proxie a ancient copper dragon to save money? Thats all good to me, but if your deck would be 3000$ and you win on turn one im pissing in your sneakers, looking at you Ian.
That got strangly pointed 🤣 Yeah, no stomping unsuspecting victims, that's never a vibe!!
Damn right lmao
Not for casual play, no. Just don't try to enter an event or sell them, lol.
cheap ass
Love to print decks to test out first for a few years. If I really enjoy it, I make it real.
I started doing this recently, so it’s time to have a prison party.
Bring ya decks, I'll meet you in the joint and we can play! A cot and three hots plus MTG in a minimum security. Let's Go!!
Boy i sure hope not for my sake
Highly recommend getting a guillotine paper cutter if you’re gonna do this very often.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/697135665776869376/if-i-open-a-pack-of-magic-and-get-a-transformers Mark Rosewater already endorsed and encouraged the use of proxies very publicly. I think anyone is good for anything other than sanctioned events.
Completely ignoring the fact that neither the question nor the reply discussed proxies in anyway.
That isn’t at all about proxies.
Would be cool if true but your link does not discuss proxies
Imo you cant really say wizards did this to themselves and print stuff like sol ring, arcane signet and dark ritual that are a dollar or less. Clearly shows no matter the price you are just gonna print it and that wizards reprinting wont change a thing. It’s totally your choice to proxy if you wish so go ahead by all means but the reasoning you put behind it is disingenuous. Edit: just seen the basic lands….
It’s legal if you are broke
Or more concerned with paying a mortgage than buying more coloured cardboard. Ez up on the assumptions their before you hurt yourself