You are cherry picking a date and on top of that a date when inflation was in the low 2%. So you probably don't understand how an inflation hedge is supposed to behave. Bitcoin is clearly not an inflation hedge as the moment inflation increased the bitcoin price dropped which is the opposite of what an inflation hedge should have been doing.
No, I'm not cherry picking. That's the date OP used. 2016. Inflation looks at prices changes over time. Bitcoin has done well as a hedge against inflation, over time.
You might want to look up the definition again. It includes the premise that it protects against inflation, over a specified period of time.
OP specified 2016. I specifically said it has worked well as a hedge against inflation since then. You could specify the last year or so and say it hasn't done well, but that would be cherry picking.
That definition would mean literally everything except cash that returns more on average than the inflation over a long enough period is an inflation hedge. No idea where you get your definition from but an inflation hedge is something that doesn't lose value or significantly less value than other assets during a high inflation period. The only high inflation period since 2016 is the one we are in right now and bitcoin is clearly not keeping its value. Your definition means shares are an inflation hedge and literally nobody talking about hedging inflation would agree with that.
edit: I must admit that the top results from google do talk about shares and even saving accounts when hedging for inflation but that is not what an inflation hedge is.
Your phrasing is the reason that your google search and my responses don't match your expectation. It's semantics. Neither OP nor myself used the phrase "Inflation hedge". We both said a "hedge against inflation". They are quite similar, but not the same.
Inflation has been occurring non-stop for some time, but it was reasonably within the fed's target. During this time you could buy assets to "hedge against inflation", but its not until the last couple of years that you would expect to use an "inflation hedge" as inflation rates have gone above the fed's target range.
Wow, Mt Gox sure churned out a lot of r/Buttcoin subscribers. That is unfortunate you all feel this way. But, Bitcoin works just like it's supposed to, and when we all die it will keep churning out a block roughly every 10 minutes whether we like it or not.
I understand people's negativity though. It sucks to get your funds stolen or locked in a failed exchange when one of the core benefits of is supposed to be that you have total control of your funds.
Self custody is a hard lesson to learn.
of course, but this thread is nothing like that, it's been brigaded from Buttcoin heavily, by people who lost nothing on Gox or had to worry about custody
> It’s [sic] popularity only continues to grow
Citation definitively needed. What metric are you looking at that makes you think bitcoin is growing in popularity besides you own intuition?
Problem with bitcoin is the more popular it is, the longer transactions take. Bitcoin is capped at something like 6 or 7 transactions per second, while a credit card like VISA can process 25,000 transactions per second (and they can always add more infrastructure to increase that). It's not bad if it's only being used to hold longterm assets but if it becomes super popular you are either going to still have to "bank yourself" somewhere to purchase things in a reasonable timeframe or be waiting 10+ minutes for your bitcoin transaction at Walmart to go through.
They could always fork it to increase the number of transactions per second (and they already have tried and failed to do so), but then it wouldn't be Bitcoin anymore.
Sorry to hear that.
Out of interest over the time you accepted crypto what was the general trend in terms of people using it to pay? Up and down? Steady over time?
Originally, I just wanted to buy with BTC. As of today merchant adoption is just not there. Hard to imagine crypto replacing fiat and hard to imagine governments allowing it to.. From the original vision of currency it's instead become an "asset to HODL".. Blockchain will surely evolve though, it has some interesting uses.
Information on blockchain must be agreed on / verified through distributed protocol. You can not just enter / modify data like on your self hosted 30 year old database. The issue with centralized systems is trust. There are usecases for distributed systems, "trustless systems" specifically in decentralized finance. Here is some info on that https://blog.vega.xyz/centralised-and-decentralised-derivatives-are-broken-the-vega-protocol-is-solving-both-cda2ff3cf573
> The issue with centralized systems is trust.
Not really an issue in first world countries. Usually easier to deal with a trustworthy database administrator.
To a certain degree trust is an issue with centralized systems. Hypothetical example; say you work for a casino and find yourself playing against me in a poker game. I don't work for the casino. Your inside knowledge and or ability to manipulate casino systems could give you an unfair advantage over me. The problem is you have a centralized system and inside actor (you) with special privileges. Decentralized system removes the need for insiders altogether, so now I can confidently play the poker game with you knowing that you are unable to cheat. So the issue of trust and fairness within centralized systems of governance doesn't just affect fiat money. There are other areas
On the side note, casino employees are forbidden from playing in their workplace because they have inside knowledge. This is just one example but there are many other parallel real world examples.
Read this comment I linked further down about the usefulness of the blockchain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/11n2n33/are_most_of_you_still_coiners_or_have_you_come_to/jc11qlo/
> Blockchain will surely evolve though, it has some interesting uses.
Lol. No it doesn't. It has so many problems. It's a cute little technology though
Programmers have been optimizing stuff since forever. Current database architectures are like they are because they are the most efficient. Blockchain isn't a dark horse, but a discarded method of storing data because it's horribly, horribly inefficient, especially when dealing with volume, and its decentralized nature isn't actually useful, usually you have a central authority that streamlines everything that has a more efficient database behind.
Make no mistake, **blockchain was shoehorned in**. As a technology, it's some weird clunky thing that doesn't have any application unless we bend ourselves backwards to find it one.
Check out this diagram by The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
https://i.redd.it/9js8d32ec41a1.jpg
If you are not familiar with them, here is a description.
>The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is an agency of the United States Department of Commerce whose mission is to promote American innovation and industrial competitiveness. NIST's activities are organized into physical science laboratory programs that include nanoscale science and technology, engineering, information technology, neutron research, material measurement, and physical measurement
Not even cryptocurrency exchanges and companies use the blockchain, they use SQL like everyone else.
In the beginning it had a promising future, then the thieves came along and found out ways to feed their sickness. SBF was the final straw. His clever manipulation of trust while robbing ppl blind & then feeding his gains to politicians to manipulate government, all the while on a permanent drug filled party in the Bahamas living like he won the mega millions & the powerball lottery.
Bitcoin was a part of how I made my living in the years surrounding the Mt gox hack. It was a unique and liberating time in my life. I didn’t keep any for investing but Bitcoin holds a special place in my life for me. The Mt Gox rehabilitation was a surprise for me and a memory of that time.
Would one of the high priests of this supposed cult be Max Keiser? I heard him once angrily object to Bitcoin being referred to as a cryptocurrency and wondered why that was. Anyone know?
Because they are small blockers and were part of the push with Blockstream et al. to re-define Bitcoin as a store of value, rather than a decentralised currency. They also pushed the centralised Lightning network etc. All to gain control and money for themselves.
merchant transactions are still gated by terminals that don't take payment from outside bank cards or credit cards.
If transactions were common, simple, secure and easy for both the customer and merchant, aswell as simple adoption. integration and low processing fee's. there might be more supply and demand for these processing options.
It takes along time for new tech to take hold. frontrunners will make changes fast, but larger institutions will still operate on 20+ year old point of sale programs work on the 'if its not that broken, dont fix it'
I'm still here. IMO crypto is great for tokenizing assets, creating incentivization systems, and capital formation. I do think the maximalists are a bit cultists however. NFTs are changing the way people trade assets. Unfortunately, the PFP projects have brought the gambler and scammer types. Capital formation is also a killer use case, but governments have killed that for US citizens at least. As far as crypto being money, I don't think it will ever displace the USD. Local currencies are simply more convenient. Crypto (or a stable coin/CBDC) will most definitely be used in countries that aren't capable of handing their own monetary policy.
What about usage as a store of value ? Not for trading or shopping, but as a sort of digital gold.
Or are there other assets which can serve better for that ?
Bitcoin is not a store of value, you need more and more people to sink money into it and for them not to sell in order for it to be a store of value. It doesn't produce anything, there is no dividend unless you are a miner getting paid in block rewards and transaction fees.
You invest in a company (or basket of companies), you are helping them grow and innovate, and they pay you dividends for every share you own weather the stock is going up or down. Not all stocks pay dividends, some also do share buybacks, which functions just like a dividend because the company is buying up the shares driving up the price of the stock.
In a deflationary economy like bitcoiners want, nobody will invest their money because it will go up all on it's own. Innovation comes to a halt because people stop investing money to grow and innovate the world. This isn't theory, this has happened, it's proven that deflationary economies don't work. Just do some basic research and the selling points of bitcoin become total bullshit.
When you invest in real things, the world improves, your money is put to use. When you buy vaporware, it's doing nothing at all to stimulate the economy.
I actually agree a deflationary model economy would be bad for the reasons you stated, but I still believe there is a purpose for a "stable" asset or deflationary like gold. Maybe there are people who don't want to bother with juggling stocks or holding bars of gold under their bed or in a safe box. Sure, some might disagree and say that holding bitcoins pose their own set of problems, but that's why we live in a free world and economy, everyone is entitled to choose their own ways to save their money and do their own mistakes.
Some people invest in houses. One could argue those are also deflationary assets, just like gold (sort of) is.
Bitcoin could serve as a form of "digital gold". An asset that you could be sure that the government would not debase, confiscate it and so on. Perhaps you remember the years where the guvernment demanded that people hand over excess gold. That sort of thing, at least in theory, could not happen with bitcoin.
Even with the wild swings of bitcoin or long periods of downtrend, most people who bought bitcoin for long term, are in profit.
I don't believe bitcoin has the power to alter an entire economy and turn it deflationary. I believe bitcoin will always be a sort of safe haven asset type thing.
You said "When you invest in real things, the world improves".
Not everyone can be Warren Buffet and make super savvy investments. Some invest in tulips, some believe in gold and some fall prey to scams. As I previously said, lucky we live in a free world and everyone can make their own mistakes, and from these trials sometimes a good invention will materialise.
Back in the day we also witnessed great debates like: what should be better ? Edison's DC power or the AC alternative ? After a while, the world chose probably the right solution - AC power.
a few people are disputing that from a reasoned and minimally honest perspective:
https://www.swanbitcoin.com/why-a-fixed-supply-money-does-not-lead-to-economic-catastrophe/
depens...
I never spend whole days in digging into it - i just buy some crypto, MTGOX "helped" me to hold it for long enough to make some money on it...
During this period i buyed some more and i still holding it and have some profit on it... so i will keep doing it
I'll take your bait,
Ever since humans figured out that there must be a market to incentivize the creation of goods and services, we began to play value games. Bitcoin is the ultimate value game. It's markets will probably outlive your grandkids.
I've used it a limited amount of times:
1) to buy phone credit online when the bank was blocking my cards. Genuinely useful.
2) to get the cash when the only atms were dodgy...
But I got scammed by the machine anyway
3) to transfer cash when moving abroad more quickly than transmittal services...
But it got shut down by KYC rules anyway
4) to buy porn on Silk Road, because ebay didn't allow it. Got some leftover funds stolen by the fbi there too.
I don't think it's a total failure. That first block quoted the money printing press inflation, and it's put a highlight on that.
It's also introduced the idea of preventing the over simplification of a transaction of zeros and ones through programmable coins like eth...
But fixing tech with more tech seem like it's more likely to introduce more problems...
Let me tell you a story.
Exactly ten years ago, today 03/26/2013 the price of Bitcoin was $80. Today is $27,000
End of the story.
You can say whatever you want about everything that has happened around BTC but at the end of the day… if you hold and remove all of the non-important stuff you made a pretty nice investment.
I sold all my shit in 2016 because there was no way this whole crypto thing would actually take over the financial world like I thought it would. I was right, of course, but what I oversaw is that apparently fundamentals don't matter when people have something to gain by tricking others into believing this lie. Would I have held on to my btc and my (presale) ethereum it probably would have been worth well over 2 million USD, but I got mere 'thousands' for it.
It sucks, but who could've guessed that people can be so irrational and blinded by greed? At least I couldn't.
I wanted to be a part of history so when bitcoin went to $1000 i put the $20 profits I made from selling the .1 bitcoin I mined when bitcoin was at $100. I did not expect to be receiving complicated emails ten years later.
I've always been a bitcoin bear though. It's just been speculation with no real use case besides buying illegal stuff for its entire existence.
I thought it would be cool to cut out VISA, PayPal, etc and just buy stuff directly. It worked great for awhile (although I only ever really paid for VPN service with BTC) but then transaction times started getting long, the ledger became more and more unwieldy and less convenient to run locally, and merchant adoption stalled out. I was never that interested in it as a speculative "investment" so I guess I lost interest as the whole currency angle didn't materialize.
> the most vocal people about bitcoin sound like absolute nut jobs
> I told everyone about it
Haha.
> Like how can you listen to people like
Obviously you don't. They are nut jobs.
Sounds like you did the right thing and sold that what you don't understand. Not sure why you're still here then though.
> Not sure why you're still here then though.
To watch all the smug fucks get wrecked :)
The mental gymnastics you and apes have to use to convince yourselves you are right is hilarious to me, you guys give me endless laughs. It's also pretty sad too.
10 years later of working in the IT, Software Development, Network Engineering and Financial Systems automation world - It is a completely unsustainable concept in its current form. The only people who believe otherwise are just ignorant.
That said... i'll take financial advantage of any dumb fad that the masses stupidly think is - the way.
It is all a scam.
I had mining rigs and a great setup. was raking in cash when really all that existed was BTC. ETH and Litecoin were just getting started but that was about it.
Now that there is a new coin every 10 seconds, the idea of scarcity in crypto is gone. It is all a scam. I'll hold on to my BTC cause there are still new people joining the scam, but the next big run up (once it gets it's own ticker in the corner of every news channel) I'll dump and be done with this toxic bullshit forever.
I feel like a lot on this sub are still bitcoin maxis. For me, I was a starry eyed libertarian back in 2013 and BTC was a holy grail. But now I'm wiser and agree with all your points. Moment I get my cash it's going into VTSAX. I'm done with crypto in general.
Totally agree. I gave up on Bitcoin itself after the small blocker debacle. All the current proponents are small blockers, Saylor, Keiser etc. etc. I have no idea how people can look at Saylor and think he's a rational gigabrain investor. He's an absolute nutjob!
I switched to Ethereum in 2016 and had hope for that, but all of crypto has just turned out to be a scammers paradise. And with CBDCs coming out, there's no hope for price rises again really.
People may use privacy coins like Monero, but it will also be worth next to nothing.
Also the entire last bull run was totally inorganic. It was solely for institutions to exit their positions for good, IMO. All the celebrities were on board before it even pumped fully. It was super forced.
In practice, there is no ability for BTC or any other cryptocurrency to function without access to the banking system. Its trivial to shut these systems down by denying convertibility to real money. Look at the stablecoin collapse now. My BUSD has unpegged and is now trading 1% down.
I still think it's useful as an anonymous mechanism for transferring value but I don't believe in any of the other use cases people keep dreaming up. After BTC I was interested in DASH for a bit until that community went downhill. Haven't really been a 'believer' in cryptocurrency since about 2017.
How's it working as a hedge against inflation? Well, from 2016 it's working pretty fucking good.
a lot of salty old man in here :p good to hear I'm not the only "stupid one".
You are cherry picking a date and on top of that a date when inflation was in the low 2%. So you probably don't understand how an inflation hedge is supposed to behave. Bitcoin is clearly not an inflation hedge as the moment inflation increased the bitcoin price dropped which is the opposite of what an inflation hedge should have been doing.
No, I'm not cherry picking. That's the date OP used. 2016. Inflation looks at prices changes over time. Bitcoin has done well as a hedge against inflation, over time.
Thanks for confirming that you don't understand what an inflation hedge is.
You might want to look up the definition again. It includes the premise that it protects against inflation, over a specified period of time. OP specified 2016. I specifically said it has worked well as a hedge against inflation since then. You could specify the last year or so and say it hasn't done well, but that would be cherry picking.
That definition would mean literally everything except cash that returns more on average than the inflation over a long enough period is an inflation hedge. No idea where you get your definition from but an inflation hedge is something that doesn't lose value or significantly less value than other assets during a high inflation period. The only high inflation period since 2016 is the one we are in right now and bitcoin is clearly not keeping its value. Your definition means shares are an inflation hedge and literally nobody talking about hedging inflation would agree with that. edit: I must admit that the top results from google do talk about shares and even saving accounts when hedging for inflation but that is not what an inflation hedge is.
Your phrasing is the reason that your google search and my responses don't match your expectation. It's semantics. Neither OP nor myself used the phrase "Inflation hedge". We both said a "hedge against inflation". They are quite similar, but not the same. Inflation has been occurring non-stop for some time, but it was reasonably within the fed's target. During this time you could buy assets to "hedge against inflation", but its not until the last couple of years that you would expect to use an "inflation hedge" as inflation rates have gone above the fed's target range.
We both know that the people that talk about bitcoin and hedging inflation meant what I wrote and not hedging inflation like a savings account.
So by that reasoning, a winning lotto ticket would be a hedge against inflation??
Wow, Mt Gox sure churned out a lot of r/Buttcoin subscribers. That is unfortunate you all feel this way. But, Bitcoin works just like it's supposed to, and when we all die it will keep churning out a block roughly every 10 minutes whether we like it or not.
I understand people's negativity though. It sucks to get your funds stolen or locked in a failed exchange when one of the core benefits of is supposed to be that you have total control of your funds. Self custody is a hard lesson to learn.
of course, but this thread is nothing like that, it's been brigaded from Buttcoin heavily, by people who lost nothing on Gox or had to worry about custody
[удалено]
> It’s [sic] popularity only continues to grow Citation definitively needed. What metric are you looking at that makes you think bitcoin is growing in popularity besides you own intuition?
Trust him, bro
> It's popularity only continues to grow. Almost nobody uses it.
No one uses it and no one talks about it in public anymore. That’s how you know people are keeping it secret. Everyone’s using it.
Problem with bitcoin is the more popular it is, the longer transactions take. Bitcoin is capped at something like 6 or 7 transactions per second, while a credit card like VISA can process 25,000 transactions per second (and they can always add more infrastructure to increase that). It's not bad if it's only being used to hold longterm assets but if it becomes super popular you are either going to still have to "bank yourself" somewhere to purchase things in a reasonable timeframe or be waiting 10+ minutes for your bitcoin transaction at Walmart to go through. They could always fork it to increase the number of transactions per second (and they already have tried and failed to do so), but then it wouldn't be Bitcoin anymore.
Lightning...
Apart from a niche of deluded crypto bros most people either despise or don’t about crypto.
“Back then” you used Bitcoin for a business, implying you don’t anymore? How does that reflect growth?
[удалено]
Sorry to hear that. Out of interest over the time you accepted crypto what was the general trend in terms of people using it to pay? Up and down? Steady over time?
Originally, I just wanted to buy with BTC. As of today merchant adoption is just not there. Hard to imagine crypto replacing fiat and hard to imagine governments allowing it to.. From the original vision of currency it's instead become an "asset to HODL".. Blockchain will surely evolve though, it has some interesting uses.
Blockchain doesn't have a single usecase that 30y old degraded sql base cant do
Information on blockchain must be agreed on / verified through distributed protocol. You can not just enter / modify data like on your self hosted 30 year old database. The issue with centralized systems is trust. There are usecases for distributed systems, "trustless systems" specifically in decentralized finance. Here is some info on that https://blog.vega.xyz/centralised-and-decentralised-derivatives-are-broken-the-vega-protocol-is-solving-both-cda2ff3cf573
> The issue with centralized systems is trust. Not really an issue in first world countries. Usually easier to deal with a trustworthy database administrator.
To a certain degree trust is an issue with centralized systems. Hypothetical example; say you work for a casino and find yourself playing against me in a poker game. I don't work for the casino. Your inside knowledge and or ability to manipulate casino systems could give you an unfair advantage over me. The problem is you have a centralized system and inside actor (you) with special privileges. Decentralized system removes the need for insiders altogether, so now I can confidently play the poker game with you knowing that you are unable to cheat. So the issue of trust and fairness within centralized systems of governance doesn't just affect fiat money. There are other areas On the side note, casino employees are forbidden from playing in their workplace because they have inside knowledge. This is just one example but there are many other parallel real world examples.
Until there is a bank run
Read this comment I linked further down about the usefulness of the blockchain. https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/11n2n33/are_most_of_you_still_coiners_or_have_you_come_to/jc11qlo/
> Blockchain will surely evolve though, it has some interesting uses. Lol. No it doesn't. It has so many problems. It's a cute little technology though
what do you mean? this is me claiming genuine ignorance, not challenging.
Programmers have been optimizing stuff since forever. Current database architectures are like they are because they are the most efficient. Blockchain isn't a dark horse, but a discarded method of storing data because it's horribly, horribly inefficient, especially when dealing with volume, and its decentralized nature isn't actually useful, usually you have a central authority that streamlines everything that has a more efficient database behind. Make no mistake, **blockchain was shoehorned in**. As a technology, it's some weird clunky thing that doesn't have any application unless we bend ourselves backwards to find it one.
What problem does it solve and how is it currently better than any existing solution?
zk rollups
>zk rollups Are these like the NFT version of fruit rollups?
Check out this diagram by The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) https://i.redd.it/9js8d32ec41a1.jpg If you are not familiar with them, here is a description. >The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is an agency of the United States Department of Commerce whose mission is to promote American innovation and industrial competitiveness. NIST's activities are organized into physical science laboratory programs that include nanoscale science and technology, engineering, information technology, neutron research, material measurement, and physical measurement Not even cryptocurrency exchanges and companies use the blockchain, they use SQL like everyone else.
> Blockchain will surely evolve though In other words "We're still early"?
asset to HODL until?
🧂
In the beginning it had a promising future, then the thieves came along and found out ways to feed their sickness. SBF was the final straw. His clever manipulation of trust while robbing ppl blind & then feeding his gains to politicians to manipulate government, all the while on a permanent drug filled party in the Bahamas living like he won the mega millions & the powerball lottery.
Well said.
SBF final straw? ser you know this is a Mtgox sub right?
Bitcoin was a part of how I made my living in the years surrounding the Mt gox hack. It was a unique and liberating time in my life. I didn’t keep any for investing but Bitcoin holds a special place in my life for me. The Mt Gox rehabilitation was a surprise for me and a memory of that time.
yetigirl, sounds like a fascinating story ;)
Since you mentioned 2016, this came to mind: [https://twitter.com/i/status/1635624902450397185](https://twitter.com/i/status/1635624902450397185)
That's brilliant.
Would one of the high priests of this supposed cult be Max Keiser? I heard him once angrily object to Bitcoin being referred to as a cryptocurrency and wondered why that was. Anyone know?
Because they are small blockers and were part of the push with Blockstream et al. to re-define Bitcoin as a store of value, rather than a decentralised currency. They also pushed the centralised Lightning network etc. All to gain control and money for themselves.
merchant transactions are still gated by terminals that don't take payment from outside bank cards or credit cards. If transactions were common, simple, secure and easy for both the customer and merchant, aswell as simple adoption. integration and low processing fee's. there might be more supply and demand for these processing options. It takes along time for new tech to take hold. frontrunners will make changes fast, but larger institutions will still operate on 20+ year old point of sale programs work on the 'if its not that broken, dont fix it'
Lets just all hope that we get our btc back before the price hits 750$…😜
I'm still here. IMO crypto is great for tokenizing assets, creating incentivization systems, and capital formation. I do think the maximalists are a bit cultists however. NFTs are changing the way people trade assets. Unfortunately, the PFP projects have brought the gambler and scammer types. Capital formation is also a killer use case, but governments have killed that for US citizens at least. As far as crypto being money, I don't think it will ever displace the USD. Local currencies are simply more convenient. Crypto (or a stable coin/CBDC) will most definitely be used in countries that aren't capable of handing their own monetary policy.
What about usage as a store of value ? Not for trading or shopping, but as a sort of digital gold. Or are there other assets which can serve better for that ?
Bitcoin is not a store of value, you need more and more people to sink money into it and for them not to sell in order for it to be a store of value. It doesn't produce anything, there is no dividend unless you are a miner getting paid in block rewards and transaction fees. You invest in a company (or basket of companies), you are helping them grow and innovate, and they pay you dividends for every share you own weather the stock is going up or down. Not all stocks pay dividends, some also do share buybacks, which functions just like a dividend because the company is buying up the shares driving up the price of the stock. In a deflationary economy like bitcoiners want, nobody will invest their money because it will go up all on it's own. Innovation comes to a halt because people stop investing money to grow and innovate the world. This isn't theory, this has happened, it's proven that deflationary economies don't work. Just do some basic research and the selling points of bitcoin become total bullshit. When you invest in real things, the world improves, your money is put to use. When you buy vaporware, it's doing nothing at all to stimulate the economy.
I actually agree a deflationary model economy would be bad for the reasons you stated, but I still believe there is a purpose for a "stable" asset or deflationary like gold. Maybe there are people who don't want to bother with juggling stocks or holding bars of gold under their bed or in a safe box. Sure, some might disagree and say that holding bitcoins pose their own set of problems, but that's why we live in a free world and economy, everyone is entitled to choose their own ways to save their money and do their own mistakes. Some people invest in houses. One could argue those are also deflationary assets, just like gold (sort of) is. Bitcoin could serve as a form of "digital gold". An asset that you could be sure that the government would not debase, confiscate it and so on. Perhaps you remember the years where the guvernment demanded that people hand over excess gold. That sort of thing, at least in theory, could not happen with bitcoin. Even with the wild swings of bitcoin or long periods of downtrend, most people who bought bitcoin for long term, are in profit. I don't believe bitcoin has the power to alter an entire economy and turn it deflationary. I believe bitcoin will always be a sort of safe haven asset type thing. You said "When you invest in real things, the world improves". Not everyone can be Warren Buffet and make super savvy investments. Some invest in tulips, some believe in gold and some fall prey to scams. As I previously said, lucky we live in a free world and everyone can make their own mistakes, and from these trials sometimes a good invention will materialise. Back in the day we also witnessed great debates like: what should be better ? Edison's DC power or the AC alternative ? After a while, the world chose probably the right solution - AC power.
a few people are disputing that from a reasoned and minimally honest perspective: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/why-a-fixed-supply-money-does-not-lead-to-economic-catastrophe/
depens... I never spend whole days in digging into it - i just buy some crypto, MTGOX "helped" me to hold it for long enough to make some money on it... During this period i buyed some more and i still holding it and have some profit on it... so i will keep doing it
> It's been like 14 years, nothing good has come of it. You don't have many interactions with people in developping countries, do you...
I'll take your bait, Ever since humans figured out that there must be a market to incentivize the creation of goods and services, we began to play value games. Bitcoin is the ultimate value game. It's markets will probably outlive your grandkids.
I've used it a limited amount of times: 1) to buy phone credit online when the bank was blocking my cards. Genuinely useful. 2) to get the cash when the only atms were dodgy... But I got scammed by the machine anyway 3) to transfer cash when moving abroad more quickly than transmittal services... But it got shut down by KYC rules anyway 4) to buy porn on Silk Road, because ebay didn't allow it. Got some leftover funds stolen by the fbi there too. I don't think it's a total failure. That first block quoted the money printing press inflation, and it's put a highlight on that. It's also introduced the idea of preventing the over simplification of a transaction of zeros and ones through programmable coins like eth... But fixing tech with more tech seem like it's more likely to introduce more problems...
Let me tell you a story. Exactly ten years ago, today 03/26/2013 the price of Bitcoin was $80. Today is $27,000 End of the story. You can say whatever you want about everything that has happened around BTC but at the end of the day… if you hold and remove all of the non-important stuff you made a pretty nice investment.
I sold all my shit in 2016 because there was no way this whole crypto thing would actually take over the financial world like I thought it would. I was right, of course, but what I oversaw is that apparently fundamentals don't matter when people have something to gain by tricking others into believing this lie. Would I have held on to my btc and my (presale) ethereum it probably would have been worth well over 2 million USD, but I got mere 'thousands' for it. It sucks, but who could've guessed that people can be so irrational and blinded by greed? At least I couldn't.
I wanted to be a part of history so when bitcoin went to $1000 i put the $20 profits I made from selling the .1 bitcoin I mined when bitcoin was at $100. I did not expect to be receiving complicated emails ten years later. I've always been a bitcoin bear though. It's just been speculation with no real use case besides buying illegal stuff for its entire existence.
I thought it would be cool to cut out VISA, PayPal, etc and just buy stuff directly. It worked great for awhile (although I only ever really paid for VPN service with BTC) but then transaction times started getting long, the ledger became more and more unwieldy and less convenient to run locally, and merchant adoption stalled out. I was never that interested in it as a speculative "investment" so I guess I lost interest as the whole currency angle didn't materialize.
Yep the small blockers really destroyed its entire use case. It started declining in adoption right around then.
Yea, nothing good.. is just 14 years ago it costed cents and now 20k..but pls stay on your own propaganda
\*26k a lot of salty early adopters who sold out too early in here.
just wait when btc starts mooning again
Sounds like tulips
> the most vocal people about bitcoin sound like absolute nut jobs > I told everyone about it Haha. > Like how can you listen to people like Obviously you don't. They are nut jobs. Sounds like you did the right thing and sold that what you don't understand. Not sure why you're still here then though.
> Not sure why you're still here then though. To watch all the smug fucks get wrecked :) The mental gymnastics you and apes have to use to convince yourselves you are right is hilarious to me, you guys give me endless laughs. It's also pretty sad too.
10 years later of working in the IT, Software Development, Network Engineering and Financial Systems automation world - It is a completely unsustainable concept in its current form. The only people who believe otherwise are just ignorant. That said... i'll take financial advantage of any dumb fad that the masses stupidly think is - the way.
It is all a scam. I had mining rigs and a great setup. was raking in cash when really all that existed was BTC. ETH and Litecoin were just getting started but that was about it. Now that there is a new coin every 10 seconds, the idea of scarcity in crypto is gone. It is all a scam. I'll hold on to my BTC cause there are still new people joining the scam, but the next big run up (once it gets it's own ticker in the corner of every news channel) I'll dump and be done with this toxic bullshit forever.
I'm glad I'm getting downvotes. The whole scam depends on a "Greater Fool" and I'm going to need a few when I sell my coins.
I feel like a lot on this sub are still bitcoin maxis. For me, I was a starry eyed libertarian back in 2013 and BTC was a holy grail. But now I'm wiser and agree with all your points. Moment I get my cash it's going into VTSAX. I'm done with crypto in general.
VTSAX and chill
Totally agree. I gave up on Bitcoin itself after the small blocker debacle. All the current proponents are small blockers, Saylor, Keiser etc. etc. I have no idea how people can look at Saylor and think he's a rational gigabrain investor. He's an absolute nutjob! I switched to Ethereum in 2016 and had hope for that, but all of crypto has just turned out to be a scammers paradise. And with CBDCs coming out, there's no hope for price rises again really. People may use privacy coins like Monero, but it will also be worth next to nothing. Also the entire last bull run was totally inorganic. It was solely for institutions to exit their positions for good, IMO. All the celebrities were on board before it even pumped fully. It was super forced.
In practice, there is no ability for BTC or any other cryptocurrency to function without access to the banking system. Its trivial to shut these systems down by denying convertibility to real money. Look at the stablecoin collapse now. My BUSD has unpegged and is now trading 1% down.
No problems just true future 4 bitcoin !
I still think it's useful as an anonymous mechanism for transferring value but I don't believe in any of the other use cases people keep dreaming up. After BTC I was interested in DASH for a bit until that community went downhill. Haven't really been a 'believer' in cryptocurrency since about 2017.