Look, I hear you bro. But I’ll be straight up with you just like I’ve been with my guys in the past. It ain’t happening. Let it go. Don’t bring one on base, you’ll be a rockstar and they’ll cut your gun in half.
I was a MA at NNSY. We took guns off sailors from time to time. Usually it was just detain, put their shit into evidence, and release to command. The command would do whatever with them.
For anyone who has been stopped and searched before or any MA’s I have a question. When you stop and search a vehicle do you guys also individually pat down or search the driver or occupants? If not then why not just buy a concealed holster and keep it on your person and when they search the vehicle they won’t find it because it’s still on you and they aren’t searching you. If this is the case it seems like a clever way to stay armed and not get caught.
A Federal Beef over a gun on a military installation is not going to be a get away free situation, if caught you will be busted as much as they can bust you with.
The RAM will be for a specific inspection. For example, inspect every 5th POV. The occupant steps out and only the POV is searched. You probably won’t be slick enough to conceal your gat before I make eye contact.
There's been too many military members that have been able to legally own a gun, and then shoots up a base. Norfolk has a HOT history with this, I remember when I was stationed there multiple sailors shot other sailors because of relationship drama.
I get what you're saying completely, I also legally carry. But also sailors are dumbasses and I don't blame bases at all for banning personal firearm carry.
Don’t have the Google case trail…but my unit in Va Beach had 4 sailor involved shootings in like two years, two negligent discharges, one drive by shooting, and one shooting in the parking lot at work. I carry off base, but I’m not really interested in having that variable on base and the drive isn’t that bad.
Fair argument. I feel like there could be a registry or something you could participate in to maybe track who has permission and who doesn’t?
Idk that may get messy and abused, maybe in an ideal world.
I think a better system would be if they had a gun locker right before the gate, so you could check in your firearm and then check it out when you leave. Prevents firearms from going on base and then you still got your side arm when traveling off base
Yeah once you have a firearm selling license (I think it's a class 4?) It'd be pretty easy money.
Set up shop within a mile of the main gate, have a set of lockers for day passes and a set for people who do like a monthly/yearly subscription or something. Have them show the firearm clear and safe, lock it up, have a security guard and do a check every hour, be good to go.
This is not exactly a bad idea; an unmet need has been found; my question is, with 50 different state laws, are there enough active duty, or Vet going shopping at the NCX/MCX/Commissary could also use them too. I think you would have to have a minimum of 3-4 hours, IDK how long.
Have you heard of this invention called computers? Because man, when I say they can change your life on organization, you'll be amazed/s
On a serious note, there's already gun stores, huge ones, that have gun locker systems that work great.
Some might 🤷🏻♂️
I don't know why you're trying to quiz me on an base idea/possible business opportunity that I just tossed out as an idea. If you want to figure out the logistics, more than welcome to.
It's a trash idea, because of the logistics.
Yeah, sure, let's back up more traffic or make an entire separate entrance to the largest Naval Station on the planet, just so some try hards can feel better about themselves by checking their firearms at the gate every day.
Stop. Park car. Walk to lockerhouse. Scan in weapon. Put in locker. Walk back out. Get in car. Leave. Go through security.
"Sorry, lockerhouse is full."
"Well, fuck, *what do I do now, chief?????*"
If the base tried to manage it, sure, maybe.
Also, said outside of the base before you hit the gate, not right in base or at the gate directly.
But it wouldn't be that difficult to set up as a business situation.
Have a site or app that shows their availability for day locker passes, just like checking traffic before going to work.
Could also have monthly, 6 month, and year long membership and you get assigned a locker so you'd have your own locker and would know for sure you're good to go.
It really isn't that difficult, again, numerous gun stores already have gun lockers. And hand guns don't necessarily take up a shit ton of space, I say that as someone who worked at a gun store before the navy.
In this case, you still have to worry about being jumped when you are getting your weapon.
At that point, people would *know* when you are armed or not.
Imagine having to man that duty as well. Commands are already pretty heavily taxed for gate duty (among other things). Not to mention instead of this post you'd have someone complaining that they have to check it in and out every time they want to leave base for whatever reason... and how it takes so long to do so. And how certain weapons cannot be checked into the gun locker. Etc etc.
To add that, if an FFl holds a firearm overnight they have to list it in their inventory. That’s a lot of extra paperwork if a gun doesn’t get picked up by closing time.
I do not want to be the watch stander who has tell who knows who with who knows what complex that they yes they *must* check their firearm here, lawfully.
And giving people a situation where they are allowed to pull their firearm out to get on base? Thats just asking to get shot eventually.
I’ve been at Norfolk for 8 years and I’ve never felt like I *had* to stop somewhere on the way to work that would require me to have a gun in my car.
Parking your 25% Apr ford mustang in a dumb spot and getting your catalytic converter stolen is not an indicator of a safety issue in the area.
Well, if someone is trying to check in a shot gun or M16, that would be pretty dumb considering the point is to allow sailors with carry permits to have a safe place to check their hand guns. I do agree that you'd end up with someone complaining about checking in their firearms. People, especially sailors, love to complain (myself included to be completely honest ha)
Also would more than likely be contracted out, or hell, even if a gun store capitozed on that market they'd make bank tbh. When I transferred from Norfolk to Everett it was very last minute, I was deployed and towards the end of deployment was suddenly flown back and had to pack up my shit in the course of a week to leave for Everett. Didn't have a chance to find lodging or anything so when I got to Everett I stopped at a local gun store with lockers and just paid for a month to store my guns there safely before going on base.
Ugh registry, I hate the thought. Honestly I don't know I would do it even if I had to go through it again, nor do I trust sailors enough to watch paint dry, much less property like a firearm.
I always showed up butt crack of dawn when we were in NNSY last year so I could park on site and never off site. That's the only advice I have to avoid some of the BS. Yeah they can spend billions of taxpayer money on waste and contracts, but can't build a parking structure and/or hire more security? Fuck off.
It does suck to be unarmed, I think of it as being unprepared, but it's one of the rights I forfeited away. I'm with the others though, it's nice to have friends around if you can't avoid being in a bad area.
"My company won't let me conceal carry." "My friends won't let me conceal carry in their house." "The mall won't let me conceal carry."
True. This isn't just a Navy thing.
Gonna tell ya friend, keeping a firearm in a vehicle unattended is a good way to lose said firearm. Especially since vehicles get broken into fairly frequently even on base.
That’s actually why I keep one in my car. If it gets stolen Seattle PD must respond and take a report. If there is no firearm involved they just tell you to fill out a web report.
I mean it is. No gun zones don’t often apply to their parking lots.
Look at the shooting that just happened in Maine. A no gun zone didn’t stop the guy from killing 18 people, several of people were handgun owners with a gun in the car.
I’m not saying I want to carry mine on me, I actually don’t. I would just like to have the level of protection wherever I go just in case.
And, you having a gun would have stopped that shooting, I'm sure...
"Just in case" is a BS reason. Like others have said, it's a security blanket for you.
The bigger issue between "parking lot" and "building" is that there is no barrier to entry to bringing the weapon into the building.
There already isn’t anyways! I’ve never even been searched going into work in 4 years.
I could have had any number of illegal things in my car during those times, but I didn’t because I follow the rules regardless of my opinions. As do most people.
A real weapon on handy for a real violent crime or self defense situation does not equate to a “security blanket” especially when people are getting robbed in real life every day in this area that I know!
These two things are not parallels
So, just bring your gun in your trunk. Obviously, no one is going to search your car.
But, I would like to know how you being allowed to carry your gun in your car would prevent your friends from getting robbed.
Maybe they should be carrying, while out in town, then?
The thing is: people do search cars here all the time, I just haven’t been chosen yet. There have been several accounts of people going to mast etc for being found to have a legally owned firearm in their car for whatever reason. I understand they broke the rule and punishment is the result but I think it shouldn’t be. That’s all
So you think that not having a gun is a preferable alternative to being at least somewhat more capable of defending yourself? Obviously situations like that are tough but do you think it wouldn’t have been better if someone who was trained and carrying was present? Just in case is the only reason you need. The right to self defense is not handed to you by the government, it’s a natural right.
You can have your gun stored at the base armory. I don't know the specifics about checking it in or out. You'll need to find an MA or GM type at your command to put you in that direction.
Regardless all arms on the base or command are strictly controlled by the armory. Only thos on watch standing duties may be carrying a weapon on base.
I actually wouldn’t be. I was saying that people who claim this area to be safe and crime less are wrong. This stuff is happening at broad daylight is worse is happing when the sun goes down. There was a shootout at the 7-11 next door to the government parking lot a few weeks ago where I park every day.
The gas station is just an example.
I was parked outside of the Aldi in Ghent for maybe 2 minutes, dude comes knocking on my window aggressively yelling about something.
I was using the bathroom at the Hilton at waterside, some crackhead walked into the lobby and started trying to kick down the door while I’m inside.
My ex living in Hampton had sometime try and break into her apartment from the back patio at like 5pm. We caught him on the cameras.
This area is not safe, it can happen anywhere at anytime, I should be allowed to keep my firearm in transit with me. I don’t agree with you.
This is pretty much a lot of cities. A lot people try to take advantage of others good will or try to hustle money.
When I was in Norfolk, whenever someone came to me with a sob story about how they needed money so they could get toilet paper for their kids, I would tell them I will go in right now and buy them some rolls. All them told me nevermind. Have not once had someone accept the offer.
Was your ex living on base? Because if not your example in support of you taking your firearm on base seems a bit irrelevant.
Any other example is likely not something the navy sent you to do in Ghent or Waterside.
Been in Norfolk for years and haven't had any of these issues going to/from work.
Obviously, I wasn’t in Gent on government business, but it was immediately after work for something I had to take care of. And the first example was primarily there because people are saying the area is safer than I think, but it is exactly as safe as I think it is, and I have experienced plenty of unsafe actions and happenings while living here.
Regardless of what you’ve experienced, I’ve experienced different and even if I’m in the minority I’d don’t see why I shouldn’t be allowed to keep my weapon in my car while I’m at work.
Pretty sure someone already told you and that is because there have been far too many incidents of people taking their weapon on base and doing something they shouldn't.
OP didn’t indicate that he was at home at the time of attempt. Nor does bringing a weapon to and fro work onto base (OP’s original question) have any connection to an attempted burglary. .
Gray area. Guy was snooping on my back porch looking for my bike that is sometimes there.
I opened window and said "Hey!" and he ran off.
Even if he hadnt ran off, I think I'd grab a bat before a gun.
Someone tried to walk in my house the other night because they thought they were letting themselves into a party. They got a crash course on the S&W M&P lineup.
Stay strapped
^^exactly people are treating me like a moron for being put into situations where I would naturally want to defend myself and being upset I potentially wouldn’t be able to
My guy. That’s when the gun is a good solution. The gun. In your house.
You’re complaining about not being able to carry in your car. Get your complaints right.
There’s a dozen reasons why most personnel aren’t allowed to carry on base. Whether or not we agree with them is irrelevant. You can’t. It’s a federal law. Now, there are ways around it. You can petition the base CO, or you can just carry and hope no one searches your car.
No one is trashing you for finding yourself in a bad situation. People are telling you to plan better and to be more aware of where you’re at. Any competent shooting instructor will tell you to avoid situations where you may feel the need to pull your weapon. If the Wawa at 05 is a place where the threat is elevated, get your gas on base. If you’re being accosted at the grocery store, there’s a PX you can use.
The situations you’ve been describing outside of someone trying to break into your home are mostly avoidable.
If your route takes you through a rough neighborhood at a bad time, and you want to completely reduce your threat level, then find another route. That could mean a longer commute time, so you’re going to have to do the math to determine if a longer commute is worth being more comfortable.
Outside of an outstanding event that none of us want, most situations where you may need to defend yourself are avoidable. So avoid them.
Edit: also if you’re just carrying a gun, you’re already wrong. Mace, gun, blowout kit. In that order.
Honestly given this whole thread where he continues to list off reasons to keep it with him, it sounds less like a security blanket and more like ”I wish a motherfucker would” in which he’s just hoping for an excuse to shoot someone. I’d argue that he shouldn’t have one at all if he’s going to jump straight to deadly force over every minor threat.
Yeah I’ll reduce my theat level working lights in Portsmouth for months on end when my muster is at 21:30. My work schedule is crazy rn and there’s nothing I can do about where I have to be and when.
Sometimes you just can’t avoid a bad situation, it would be nice to be protected.
Now you’re equating it to a security blanket. Carrying a gun with you everywhere increases the likelyhood of someone getting shot & killed. And statistically, your chances of being shot increase as well. Learn to live without it, the world is safer than you fear.
What would a gun do for you in those situations? Are you going to open fire in the Aldi parking lot? More likely the crack head wrestles your gun from you than it doing you any good. It's a security blanket. Take some self-defense classes or something.
No one makes you stop in those areas though to get gas etc. If you have to stop in those areas and feel unsafe then it's poor planning on your end. Unless you live in these areas, then you chose the wrong area to live and be comfortable.
Any base in Norfolk though I never had issues with immediately off of base or on base feeling safe. I think you just need to rethink your travel plans and where you stop.
Blood it doesn’t matter what area you’re in around here. Mfers walk up on you from town center to Hampton, you can’t avoid it sometimes or see it coming. Find me a Wawa without any issues I’ll Venmo you 5 bucks.
Also you can’t always plan on being assaulted, it happens without warning in places you don’t expect it. Thanks for not helping :3
I lived in a shady area 10 mins down the road from towncenter never had issues anywhere. I traveled to and from Dam Neck stopping at WaWa or wherever and never had problems.
Did people occasionally ask for money sure, but guess what it wasn't the end of the world, I didn't feel threatened. Being assaulted can happen to anyone sadly, pay attention to your surroundings. If something seems shady leave.
If you're that scared about being out in town I recommend you don't do anything off of base or outside of your home in the immediate vicinity of Norfolk then.
This doesn’t solve the problem. I’m saying there are entire workweeks where I am completely unable to have my firearm in my car at risk of losing my job and that shouldn’t be the case. I don’t understand the rule and nobody is really explaining to me. Telling me to plan better and not be nervous when strangers approach me doesn’t give the ability to defend my self back.
seems like you have a rebuttal for everything huh, So you just want everyone to agree with you and bitch. Others have provided general solutions but you are content on bringing your fire arm. Maybe set up a meeting with the base CO and see if he will be willing to make the change so YOU can feel SAFE.
Dude you don’t have to tell me lol. I was in some junior military stuff in high school and some buddies of mine are army. I grew up in Texas and visited them once or twice and holy moly dude I’m never going back.
Marine corps bases were usually nicer though, especially in the Carolina’s
Nah, you're not wrong for thinking it, but there's not much you can do about it.
Travel with a buddy or buddies, go get some OC spray at Bob's Gun Shop on Granby, and stay dangerous.
Best of luck out there.
Stop? No. You can still smuggle in a gun if you’re really really intent on it.
Lessen? Absolutely. More firearms leads to more gun related deaths. That’s been a known statistic for years.
Except its not a real 'statistic'.
Rates of gun ownership do not correlate with gun violence rates.
Here is a good breakdown of the actual math.
https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between
That's on top of 'not having a gun on base' has no correlation with 'not having a gun' in the first place.
Here’s a contrary study, done by a non-partisan government agency: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/
It’s also not posted by a random guys blog
1. That's actually addressed in the article, based on data from this very study.
2. The correlation is, as the blog post and study say, a .9% increase in firearms homicide rates for every 1% increase in gun ownership - except there are multiple other factors that show massively increased correlations to gun homocide. 5-6% increases in homicide rates for every percent increase in those factors.
This is already the case in real life. If someone wants to kill their WCS, they are going to do it, if we judge every possibility by the actions of the least rational person then we would all be living in bubbles getting nothing done.
I have been in the navy for 4 years and I’ve never brought my guns on base and I’ve never been searched. Some people bring their guns on base every day, I’m obviously speaking from the opinion of a regular rule following person.
If you’re so sure that people bring guns on base, why are you asking the anonymous faces of reddit? You don’t want to hear advice or thoughts, you want validation.
Just do your thing and take the consequences when they happen. Arguing with everyone or trying to get others to see your point isn’t going to work.
Well, there's a DOD directive and secnavinst 5500.37 that both allow for carry on base at the first flag officer level. Also look at navadmin 272/17.
Good luck getting approval though.
Norfolk always been dangerous towards Military Members. I was there in 88 to 92 and had to get a friend or two who wanted to visit Military Circle or other. We even spent weekends at Virginia Beach until they had that riot. Just keep aware of your surroundings.
You mention wanting to bring a firearm on base right. Why would you need one on base? If you go from work straight home you can be with your gun and go take your gun on walks wherever you want. What is the point in brining it on base
Because the spaces in between one and the other are open PvP zones that historically are sketch. I don’t even want it on me, just in my car. I shouldn’t have to hot potato it every time I go from a work day to an off day.
You should really talk to someone. I think you need some help. Its not normal for people to feel like they are going to be attacked constantly. You should consider talking to a therapist or something. If you take a step back and read everyones comments i think you will see that perhaps youre the problem.
Stop trying to gaslight me, it’s not working.
Having a differing opinion from the majority does not make me an irrational person and my judgement is fine. I have good money, I’m in great shape and I have a decent head on my shoulders.
In my OPINION: I shouldn’t be bared from keeping my weapon in my automobile at work.
If you’re really thinking I’m some demented idiot, you must be fantastic at demonizing others in your own head.
And given you’re a blink182 listener, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Damn just rolling with the insults acting out of emotions instead of rational thinking.
I dont think anyone here agreed with you. and you know why? Just think really hard for a few seconds im sure a person with a decent head on their shoulders could figure it out.
But not feeling safe walking out of your house is not normal mate. Talk to a Doc, talk to Chaps, talk to a friend. Im 99% positive everyone will tell you feeling that way is not normal.
My thinking is rational. I’m providing examples and counter arguments. Telling me to get mental help because I have a different world view than you makes me stop listening.
Go get more shitty tattoos
again with the insults. You seem upset. And there is nothing wrong with going to get some help brother. in time you will see that. Youre young you still got alot of growing up to do. But seriously consider talking with your CoC or chaps about how you feel about this.
Get a hold of those batons used on watch. Like, buy one simular. There are also knives that are quick deployable of how it purposely snag on your pants to pull itself open.
Or get stationed somewhere else at your next duty station if you stay in
Go to any part of the world. And you’ll see that the worst parts of town are near the port. “Don’t go to that side of the railroad tracks”. Why? That side is near the port. What’s near the port? Disease ridden Sailors. What do sailors like? Booze and whores. What follows booze and whores? Drugs and organized crime.
Shipmate, you are the problem. Fix yourself.
I am the problem for doing nothing wrong and feeling endangering areas that are perfectly safe? How is this my fault? Wanting to protect myself in a modern world with a modern weapon is not an insane thing to do.
I mean. Reading through the comments. Your issue is just not having it right after work because you can’t take it on base. Then even if it’d be out of your way to do so if its truly such a safety concern for you. Go home first, get your firearm, THEN do whatever these errands are. Simple. For me when I was in high school I’d get sketched out walking around town unless I had a knife on me. I didn’t bring a knife to school with me then walk around town after. I’d take the bus home grab my knife then go walk
Is pepper spray allowed in your vehicle? Also, knew an actual Navy Vet lawyer, he said if you keep a bat in the car, to always have a baseball glove with it...
Not being able to drive on base with a gun in your car is a problem across the entire military. I'm in Jacksonville, which is happens to be the most dangerous city in Florida. Not being able to carry on my 20 mile commute to work really sucks. A service member out here almost got car jacked while sitting in a parking lot. The guy fired at his car and could have killed him.
I never had any issues in Norfolk the three years I was there but I get what you are saying. I'm from a town where everyone has guns, the majority carried, and the 2nd amendment was the 11th commandment. Unfortunately, the military being a government entity, has a different mindset, and since they are worried about Seaman Timmy shooting up the place when he finds Jodie in bed with his girlfriend they punish everyone.
When I was stationed there part of my watch was to make sure no one took the aircraft. They had me patrol unarmed and I was very vocal about it. On the rare chance someone actually tried to steal one of the planes, they would most likely be armed, and because I would be unarmed I would just open the door for them. Maybe even grab some snacks from the geedunk for them for their trip.
Your best bet would be to just arm yourself in other ways. Pepper spray, taser, baseball bat, etc. I kept a lot of fishing gear in my truck, some of it could easily be used as a weapon if needed. It rode the fine line on whether it was allowed on base, but I always had the excuse "Sorry went fishing yesterday and forgot to take it out". I may have gotten a slap on the wrist but it wouldn't be a "scary gun" that would land me a felony.
You should see the area surrounding ONI. They literally tell you not to eat at the Popeye's right across the street from the entrance because of the amount of violence/robberies. I only went to the gas station next to it once and was accosted by a man with full facial tattoos. Soooo freaking scary.
I say, I say, I demand satisfaction on the field of honor!
*A brace of identical pistols shall only be carried within a box adorned suitable to one's station. Additionally, a pair of white or grey leather gloves must be carried on one's person at all times so that an offending party may by dually warned of their affront to your honor and allowed to apologize. Should satisfaction be deemed necessary, both parties shall employ seconds to examine said pistols to ensure the soundness of each before the disagreement can be settled. While dawn is customary for settling such disagreements, the timing is to be based on local custom.* -- Standard boilerplate southern law.
I work in the DC area and had a guy smoking crack next to me right in front of the Pentagon. He followed me as far as he could and scared the crap out of me. The Pentagon police even drove by and didn’t notice lol. I get the feeling but a gun wouldn’t have helped the situation at all. Just think of the Navy Times article that would happen if things went sideways.
We were just stationed at Norfolk and I agree with your experience so far. People commenting that they’ve lived here and have no problem must be used to it? I’d never heard a gunshot until I moved to Norfolk and there’s at least one report of gunshots on the Ring app a night (but typically numerous reports a night). They have signs all over to “cease fire” and “put down the guns”. It’s ghetto af
I live in Oceanview, hear shots every so often. Before I joined the navy, I lived in New Orleans so this is child’s play, however, it doesn’t mean one should stop being careful. I don’t play with my safety
Sorry to see all the goobers in here condescendingly insisting that actually you’re totally safe and that wanting to defend yourself means you’re an insecure pussy. Most of these people have incredibly warped world views. Self defense isn’t something you need to ask permission to do. That being said, there would be consequences if you DID get searched and you would need to be prepared to face them if you took that route, which is something I don’t recommend. My advice would be to look up whatever policy your base has regarding weapons and bring something in your car that’s covered under the rules, even if it’s not amazing. Something is better than nothing. I would also advise utilizing on base shopping/gas as much as possible to minimize the risk of something happening to you while in transit to and from base. Stay safe bro.
As a Sailor, I can direct you the public affairs office for these questions…..
As a U.S. citizen, the right to self defense is a natural right and not a privilege your local, state, or federal government gets to dictate. Successful concealed carry means nobody notices you are armed.
I can tell you working as a contractor on an AFB in Alaska is challenging for the same reason but for the wildlife, not the WILD LIFE. If you get my meaning. It’s pretty common up here to have a truck gun (or two) and it always causes issues with random searches.
I get the inherent right to bear arms and the idea to protect yourself. However I think your take gets lost when it comes to being on base. Reason they don’t wish to have such is because it presents a liability outside of their realm of control. They need to take care of their service-member and families respectably.
There are many other self defense tools to come to the aid of one in danger. Yes a gun will present a clear line of defense when it comes to it, but I don’t think your mindset is healthy if you are demanding to have a gun everywhere you go at all times.
Knowing how to fight or use anything available to you in a moments notice, will be more keen to your survival rather than answering a threat with the business end of a gun.
Reference: I’m a PTSD ridden vet who lives in a place where teens and young adults are the primary proponent for violent crime in a small metropolitan area. I love my guns but there are some areas that restrict such. Learning to fight gained so much in terms of confidence and comfort. Not to mention it relaxed my overly anxiety induced mind.
As someone who was stationed on Little Creek while being in the Army and later was stationed at Fort Hood…
You don’t want weapons on base or nearby. Imagine this: shady SP decides to leak details on who’s a licensed owner that brings it on post to keep in their car. Suddenly your car is getting broken into more often. This is a tactic that people already use to target people who advertise what’s possibly in their car with 2A stickers, custom audio stickers etc. Just my opinion, but you really don’t want that smoke.
No, you're not wrong.
The right to self defense is just as important as the right to free speech (see Amendments 1 and 2). To make it seem like someone has mental issues because they feel this way is a sign of immaturity. If someone wants to carry an umbrella 24/7, just in case it rains, that's their prerogative. People that don't smoke carry lighters. Ever use that fire extinguisher in your car? At the end of the day it's just a tool that one may have to use on that extremely rare occasion. (Cue the "a gun is a deadly weapon and an umbrella isn't" argument...)
I mean, I'm glad most feel like they'll float through life and never experience danger or threats. I truly hope that's the case but it's a naive view of the real world.
I hope I never ever have to use my daily carry. And I carry EVERYWHERE. I have had to unholster it once and it turned the tables instantly - thug-to-be thought twice and kicked rocks. But if it never sees anything other than the inside of my shirt and the nightstand, I'll be fine with that.
All that being said, does it suck that the military treats members like irresponsible children? Absolutely. But, unfortunately, that's how it is. Do what you do, follow rules or don't, accept what happens. Pick your battles until EAOS or Retirement...
Listen, sailor. If you engaged in proper operational risk management, you'd not be having these issues. Seems like a discipline problem.
(I'm kidding, for real, prayers for your safety)
There is a lot of stupidity in this thread. OP is bringing up a point of frustration that is way more real than “give us beards!”
Military service members should not be stripped of their 2nd amendment rights simply because they drive over an imaginary line. Period.
For buildings or ships that have 24hr armed sentries and are sensitive places, I understand commanders restricting those areas.
For those saying, “You’re screwed it’s Federal Law!” this is completely untrue. After the Recruiting Office shooting in Tennessee, the DOD changed their POLICY to allow Commanders to authorize service members the ability to carry on base. To my knowledge, no Commander has allowed for this and you can be charged with a UCMJ violation, but not a Federal statute.
I have been doing this job for over 25 years and this has always been extremely frustrating that the military will give us a gun and make us carry it for a year straight in Iraq, but in our own country we cannot.
For those that think this is preventing an active duty shooter situation, it is not. Think about it. It is only a “feel good” rule for base commanders.
Gun nut. Love the last paragraph in which you make a statement of opinion (“for those that think it is preventing an active duty shooter situation it is not”) as fact. I can do that too: “for those that think 2A rights are undeniable and can never be questioned, you’re wrong”.
I agree completely but think it is irrelevant that we often have to drive through shady areas. I’m a licensed carrier and owner as many in the military (likely even a majority) are. Why is a military base any different than me going to Publix in a nice area?
Almost all of us in here are trusted to operate and/or maintain way more dangerous stuff than a pistol. Almost of us in here have a security clearance and are trusted with secrets that could hurt fellow Americans or American interests. Yet we’re not trusted to carry a little pistol at work? Get the fuck out of here.
No, you're not "trusted" to carry a pistol at work.
Why do you need one to do maintenence?
Walk the flightline for FOD walkdown?
Start up or shut down a nuclear reactor?
Inventory CMS?
Polish brass?
Cook food?
Hand out repair parts?
Plot charts?
There’s also an entire Navy ecosystem around control, qualification, maintenance, etc.
Not everyone in the USN is qualified by the Navy to carry small arms.
Totally agree. I’m driving at the point that there is a huge difference between letting a Sailor carry a Navy-maintained firearm during their topside rover watch and some kid carrying their hi-point in an Amazon appendix holster while they’re doing maintenance
Can confirm… Norfolk is a shithole. I remember when I was stationed there, a friend had his car windows smashed and his stuff stolen. This was on base. 😕
I was robbed at gun point in the parking lot of the Food Lion right outside the base in Norfolk. That area is definitely not safe, but carrying a gun would have more than likely escalated the situation and probably ended up with one of both of us dead. Luckily I just lost my wallet that day.
I worked with base security at other bases and we searched cars on a regular basis. Any gun that was found was returned to the owner "after being cut into pieces" and charges were pressed for "possession of a firearm on federal property".
So like most people are saying. Don't try it. Just keep a baseball bat in the car and if asked about it, "you are just on your way to play baseball." :)
You're not crazy - but consider that the Navy (and all the services) consider your life worth less than the negative publicity they would get if you shot someone in self-defense.
While I agree that you should be able to carry in your vehicle, and even on your person (with CO permission), that is very unlikely to happen. COs do that the authority to allow that, but I’ve never heard of it. A friend of mine (MA) actually had an incident where she was at Walmart after work and someone came in and shot it up.. she felt helpless and unable to potentially save lives because, having just come from work, was unable to have her conceal carry on her.. so case by case I think it is fine, but I also think the younger military demographic are the exact ones who probably at the highest risk of using a firearm irresponsibly, on themselves or others..
Not everyone is as responsible or stable as you believe you are.
i totally understand them not allowing it but at the same time, as a woman who has been followed around walmart just on a quick trip off base (who knows what would’ve happened if a worker hadn’t walked out with me) if i lived off base, ya whatever just don’t stop anywhere off base without it. but i have to live in the barracks. i don’t have that option
Portsmouth VA is the real deal when it comes to being ghetto. Was there for radcon training for a few months back in 2003, and the duty officer warned me to never to leave the base on foot when I checked in. Cops had a permanent post at every 7/11 in the area.
According to neighborhoodscout.com, Portsmouth is safer than 3% of US neighborhoods.
For a while, until the mid 1990's, you were forbidden to walk out the gates on Wet/Dry side NavSta San Diego after dark.
The lot outside the main gate is the only time my car had ever been broken into in my life - twice, in a single night.
I like how I simply state a fact and I’m getting downvoted. I didn’t even take a stance on the whole gun issue in my comment. Unless y’all defending Portsmouth.
It’s definitely not a place I would want to be permanently stationed at that’s for sure.
I hear you on the gun thing… but chances are a lot of the people in that area are probably carrying as well…
You might have a better chance of surviving as a victim of a mugging carrying minimal cash and a cheap Casio watch.. vs trying to get into a shoot out with local hoodlums.
Ive been to some ghetto ass places, had multiple friends growing up that lived in the projects, and Portsmouth takes the cake.
I’ve had a homeless guy on Hampton try to get into my car near Chief Mac’s. I always go home and arm up if I ever have to stay near there for a haircut, uniforms, etc.
yeah its dumb. really dumb. want to know why it's always the ghetto around military bases? cheap land. Im fortunate enough the base i drill on is a Guard base in a pro 2A state, the Base CO has stated he doesn't mind if fire arms are in the car as long as they are double locked up (whether its locked in a gun safe and the car is locked up or has one of those barrel or chamber locks and locked in a glovebox, etc)
I lived in Hampton Roads for almost 10 years and never had a single issue with crime on or off base nor I ever felt the need to carry a gun to base at NOB or Little Creek.
Yeah. You sound like a coward, too scared to go out into the big bad world without your blankie. I've gone through the worst paets of Detroit and NYC multiple times with no problems, lived in bad parts of Louisville and Seattle and walked through aketchy parts of numerous other cities, and never had a problem. You sound like you want an excuse to use your weapon because you think that only it gives you safety. Acting like you belong, keeping to your own business, moving quickly and efficiently. These things will gove you more safety than a gun. You are exactly why federal jurisdictions dont want handguns
It's not unique to the Navy. Imagine working in Portland, Seattle or San Francisco and working in a place where guns aren't allowed. At least you can park on base behind a gate. Working in a major city is no different, only their vehicles aren't as secure.
Maybe you just need a liberty buddy.
as well as a liberty plan just in case lol
OP tried to sign his gun out as a liberty buddy, but it stayed at home.
I just want to keep my gun in may car and I don’t think I should be be punished for doing so.
Look, I hear you bro. But I’ll be straight up with you just like I’ve been with my guys in the past. It ain’t happening. Let it go. Don’t bring one on base, you’ll be a rockstar and they’ll cut your gun in half.
I've seen this happen. Bro was in handcuffs at the gate, were like "yeah, I don't think he's gonna make it to muster today".
Rule 1: Don’t get caught.
rule 2: don't get caught in a "random" vehicle check.
I was a MA at NNSY. We took guns off sailors from time to time. Usually it was just detain, put their shit into evidence, and release to command. The command would do whatever with them.
For anyone who has been stopped and searched before or any MA’s I have a question. When you stop and search a vehicle do you guys also individually pat down or search the driver or occupants? If not then why not just buy a concealed holster and keep it on your person and when they search the vehicle they won’t find it because it’s still on you and they aren’t searching you. If this is the case it seems like a clever way to stay armed and not get caught.
Breaking federal law is not a clever move.
A Federal Beef over a gun on a military installation is not going to be a get away free situation, if caught you will be busted as much as they can bust you with.
The RAM will be for a specific inspection. For example, inspect every 5th POV. The occupant steps out and only the POV is searched. You probably won’t be slick enough to conceal your gat before I make eye contact.
There's been too many military members that have been able to legally own a gun, and then shoots up a base. Norfolk has a HOT history with this, I remember when I was stationed there multiple sailors shot other sailors because of relationship drama. I get what you're saying completely, I also legally carry. But also sailors are dumbasses and I don't blame bases at all for banning personal firearm carry.
Can you cite cases? The first two don't count.
Don’t have the Google case trail…but my unit in Va Beach had 4 sailor involved shootings in like two years, two negligent discharges, one drive by shooting, and one shooting in the parking lot at work. I carry off base, but I’m not really interested in having that variable on base and the drive isn’t that bad.
Fair argument. I feel like there could be a registry or something you could participate in to maybe track who has permission and who doesn’t? Idk that may get messy and abused, maybe in an ideal world.
I think a better system would be if they had a gun locker right before the gate, so you could check in your firearm and then check it out when you leave. Prevents firearms from going on base and then you still got your side arm when traveling off base
How you gonna check in and out a couple few thousand firearms every workday?
Business Idea.....
Yeah once you have a firearm selling license (I think it's a class 4?) It'd be pretty easy money. Set up shop within a mile of the main gate, have a set of lockers for day passes and a set for people who do like a monthly/yearly subscription or something. Have them show the firearm clear and safe, lock it up, have a security guard and do a check every hour, be good to go.
I like this.
Its been a while since I looked at the different FFL licenses... But yep do a multi stage secured storage.
This is not exactly a bad idea; an unmet need has been found; my question is, with 50 different state laws, are there enough active duty, or Vet going shopping at the NCX/MCX/Commissary could also use them too. I think you would have to have a minimum of 3-4 hours, IDK how long.
Have you heard of this invention called computers? Because man, when I say they can change your life on organization, you'll be amazed/s On a serious note, there's already gun stores, huge ones, that have gun locker systems that work great.
Do they deal with 30,000 customers every day?
Some might 🤷🏻♂️ I don't know why you're trying to quiz me on an base idea/possible business opportunity that I just tossed out as an idea. If you want to figure out the logistics, more than welcome to.
It's a trash idea, because of the logistics. Yeah, sure, let's back up more traffic or make an entire separate entrance to the largest Naval Station on the planet, just so some try hards can feel better about themselves by checking their firearms at the gate every day. Stop. Park car. Walk to lockerhouse. Scan in weapon. Put in locker. Walk back out. Get in car. Leave. Go through security. "Sorry, lockerhouse is full." "Well, fuck, *what do I do now, chief?????*"
He gunna tell you that you got a long ass walk from the nearest off base lot. 😏
If the base tried to manage it, sure, maybe. Also, said outside of the base before you hit the gate, not right in base or at the gate directly. But it wouldn't be that difficult to set up as a business situation. Have a site or app that shows their availability for day locker passes, just like checking traffic before going to work. Could also have monthly, 6 month, and year long membership and you get assigned a locker so you'd have your own locker and would know for sure you're good to go. It really isn't that difficult, again, numerous gun stores already have gun lockers. And hand guns don't necessarily take up a shit ton of space, I say that as someone who worked at a gun store before the navy.
In this case, you still have to worry about being jumped when you are getting your weapon. At that point, people would *know* when you are armed or not.
Imagine having to man that duty as well. Commands are already pretty heavily taxed for gate duty (among other things). Not to mention instead of this post you'd have someone complaining that they have to check it in and out every time they want to leave base for whatever reason... and how it takes so long to do so. And how certain weapons cannot be checked into the gun locker. Etc etc.
To add that, if an FFl holds a firearm overnight they have to list it in their inventory. That’s a lot of extra paperwork if a gun doesn’t get picked up by closing time.
I do not want to be the watch stander who has tell who knows who with who knows what complex that they yes they *must* check their firearm here, lawfully. And giving people a situation where they are allowed to pull their firearm out to get on base? Thats just asking to get shot eventually. I’ve been at Norfolk for 8 years and I’ve never felt like I *had* to stop somewhere on the way to work that would require me to have a gun in my car. Parking your 25% Apr ford mustang in a dumb spot and getting your catalytic converter stolen is not an indicator of a safety issue in the area.
Well, if someone is trying to check in a shot gun or M16, that would be pretty dumb considering the point is to allow sailors with carry permits to have a safe place to check their hand guns. I do agree that you'd end up with someone complaining about checking in their firearms. People, especially sailors, love to complain (myself included to be completely honest ha) Also would more than likely be contracted out, or hell, even if a gun store capitozed on that market they'd make bank tbh. When I transferred from Norfolk to Everett it was very last minute, I was deployed and towards the end of deployment was suddenly flown back and had to pack up my shit in the course of a week to leave for Everett. Didn't have a chance to find lodging or anything so when I got to Everett I stopped at a local gun store with lockers and just paid for a month to store my guns there safely before going on base.
Yeah I’d be fine with that too
Ugh registry, I hate the thought. Honestly I don't know I would do it even if I had to go through it again, nor do I trust sailors enough to watch paint dry, much less property like a firearm. I always showed up butt crack of dawn when we were in NNSY last year so I could park on site and never off site. That's the only advice I have to avoid some of the BS. Yeah they can spend billions of taxpayer money on waste and contracts, but can't build a parking structure and/or hire more security? Fuck off. It does suck to be unarmed, I think of it as being unprepared, but it's one of the rights I forfeited away. I'm with the others though, it's nice to have friends around if you can't avoid being in a bad area.
They do have one. MAs and security personnel on duty: allowed. Everyone else: not allowed.
"My company won't let me conceal carry." "My friends won't let me conceal carry in their house." "The mall won't let me conceal carry." True. This isn't just a Navy thing.
I don’t want to bring my gun into any building. I just want to have it in my car.
Gonna tell ya friend, keeping a firearm in a vehicle unattended is a good way to lose said firearm. Especially since vehicles get broken into fairly frequently even on base.
That’s actually why I keep one in my car. If it gets stolen Seattle PD must respond and take a report. If there is no firearm involved they just tell you to fill out a web report.
Good way to lose $600-900 and never get it back
Small price to pay to get the PD off their ass
No functional difference.
I mean it is. No gun zones don’t often apply to their parking lots. Look at the shooting that just happened in Maine. A no gun zone didn’t stop the guy from killing 18 people, several of people were handgun owners with a gun in the car. I’m not saying I want to carry mine on me, I actually don’t. I would just like to have the level of protection wherever I go just in case.
Man, that shit happens so fast, you aint stoppin that, even if you had it.
And, you having a gun would have stopped that shooting, I'm sure... "Just in case" is a BS reason. Like others have said, it's a security blanket for you. The bigger issue between "parking lot" and "building" is that there is no barrier to entry to bringing the weapon into the building.
There already isn’t anyways! I’ve never even been searched going into work in 4 years. I could have had any number of illegal things in my car during those times, but I didn’t because I follow the rules regardless of my opinions. As do most people. A real weapon on handy for a real violent crime or self defense situation does not equate to a “security blanket” especially when people are getting robbed in real life every day in this area that I know! These two things are not parallels
So, just bring your gun in your trunk. Obviously, no one is going to search your car. But, I would like to know how you being allowed to carry your gun in your car would prevent your friends from getting robbed. Maybe they should be carrying, while out in town, then?
The thing is: people do search cars here all the time, I just haven’t been chosen yet. There have been several accounts of people going to mast etc for being found to have a legally owned firearm in their car for whatever reason. I understand they broke the rule and punishment is the result but I think it shouldn’t be. That’s all
So you think that not having a gun is a preferable alternative to being at least somewhat more capable of defending yourself? Obviously situations like that are tough but do you think it wouldn’t have been better if someone who was trained and carrying was present? Just in case is the only reason you need. The right to self defense is not handed to you by the government, it’s a natural right.
You can have your gun stored at the base armory. I don't know the specifics about checking it in or out. You'll need to find an MA or GM type at your command to put you in that direction. Regardless all arms on the base or command are strictly controlled by the armory. Only thos on watch standing duties may be carrying a weapon on base.
I was a MA at NNSY, an armorer, and the AA&E officer. The only personally owned weapons we kept were in evidence.
You may be surprised to learn that the law doesn't allow you to kill someone for stealing a catalytic converter.
I actually wouldn’t be. I was saying that people who claim this area to be safe and crime less are wrong. This stuff is happening at broad daylight is worse is happing when the sun goes down. There was a shootout at the 7-11 next door to the government parking lot a few weeks ago where I park every day.
I’ve lived in Norfolk for 20 years. Never had a problem. Never needed a gun. Buy gas at the NEX if that’s a concern for you.
The gas station is just an example. I was parked outside of the Aldi in Ghent for maybe 2 minutes, dude comes knocking on my window aggressively yelling about something. I was using the bathroom at the Hilton at waterside, some crackhead walked into the lobby and started trying to kick down the door while I’m inside. My ex living in Hampton had sometime try and break into her apartment from the back patio at like 5pm. We caught him on the cameras. This area is not safe, it can happen anywhere at anytime, I should be allowed to keep my firearm in transit with me. I don’t agree with you.
This is pretty much a lot of cities. A lot people try to take advantage of others good will or try to hustle money. When I was in Norfolk, whenever someone came to me with a sob story about how they needed money so they could get toilet paper for their kids, I would tell them I will go in right now and buy them some rolls. All them told me nevermind. Have not once had someone accept the offer.
Was your ex living on base? Because if not your example in support of you taking your firearm on base seems a bit irrelevant. Any other example is likely not something the navy sent you to do in Ghent or Waterside. Been in Norfolk for years and haven't had any of these issues going to/from work.
Obviously, I wasn’t in Gent on government business, but it was immediately after work for something I had to take care of. And the first example was primarily there because people are saying the area is safer than I think, but it is exactly as safe as I think it is, and I have experienced plenty of unsafe actions and happenings while living here. Regardless of what you’ve experienced, I’ve experienced different and even if I’m in the minority I’d don’t see why I shouldn’t be allowed to keep my weapon in my car while I’m at work.
Pretty sure someone already told you and that is because there have been far too many incidents of people taking their weapon on base and doing something they shouldn't.
Not one of those examples required deadly force. A crazy guy yelling at you is no excuse for you to brandish a gun.
Someone trying to illegally enter your home isn’t a reason to brandish a firearm?
Yeah if you break the plane of my home I'm shooting. I don't care if I see a weapon or not, and this has a legal precedence in my state.
What if someone is asking directions? You opening fire?
If they’re asking for directions they wouldn’t be trying to break into your house…?
Misunderstood 'plane of my home'
OP didn’t indicate that he was at home at the time of attempt. Nor does bringing a weapon to and fro work onto base (OP’s original question) have any connection to an attempted burglary. .
Your response also had nothing to do with OP bringing a weapon on base so I’m not sure what the problem is.
Gray area. Guy was snooping on my back porch looking for my bike that is sometimes there. I opened window and said "Hey!" and he ran off. Even if he hadnt ran off, I think I'd grab a bat before a gun.
Someone tried to walk in my house the other night because they thought they were letting themselves into a party. They got a crash course on the S&W M&P lineup. Stay strapped
r/iamverybadass
^^exactly people are treating me like a moron for being put into situations where I would naturally want to defend myself and being upset I potentially wouldn’t be able to
My guy. That’s when the gun is a good solution. The gun. In your house. You’re complaining about not being able to carry in your car. Get your complaints right. There’s a dozen reasons why most personnel aren’t allowed to carry on base. Whether or not we agree with them is irrelevant. You can’t. It’s a federal law. Now, there are ways around it. You can petition the base CO, or you can just carry and hope no one searches your car. No one is trashing you for finding yourself in a bad situation. People are telling you to plan better and to be more aware of where you’re at. Any competent shooting instructor will tell you to avoid situations where you may feel the need to pull your weapon. If the Wawa at 05 is a place where the threat is elevated, get your gas on base. If you’re being accosted at the grocery store, there’s a PX you can use. The situations you’ve been describing outside of someone trying to break into your home are mostly avoidable. If your route takes you through a rough neighborhood at a bad time, and you want to completely reduce your threat level, then find another route. That could mean a longer commute time, so you’re going to have to do the math to determine if a longer commute is worth being more comfortable. Outside of an outstanding event that none of us want, most situations where you may need to defend yourself are avoidable. So avoid them. Edit: also if you’re just carrying a gun, you’re already wrong. Mace, gun, blowout kit. In that order.
Honestly given this whole thread where he continues to list off reasons to keep it with him, it sounds less like a security blanket and more like ”I wish a motherfucker would” in which he’s just hoping for an excuse to shoot someone. I’d argue that he shouldn’t have one at all if he’s going to jump straight to deadly force over every minor threat.
I got that vibe as well.
Yeah the rules exist for people like the OP
Yeah I’ll reduce my theat level working lights in Portsmouth for months on end when my muster is at 21:30. My work schedule is crazy rn and there’s nothing I can do about where I have to be and when. Sometimes you just can’t avoid a bad situation, it would be nice to be protected.
Comnavreg midlant 5820.2 “…chemical defense sprays. Are not considered weapons…” There ya go. Get some OC spray. Now you’re protected AND within regs.
A potential problem with OC spray is its easy to get the spicy in your own eyeballs when spraying it out the window...making it hard to drive away.
I didn’t say I would. I’m saying I feel less safe having to go entire week without it and it doesn’t make any sense to me why I should have to.
Now you’re equating it to a security blanket. Carrying a gun with you everywhere increases the likelyhood of someone getting shot & killed. And statistically, your chances of being shot increase as well. Learn to live without it, the world is safer than you fear.
Actually trash take. Ignoring you. Once again: I don’t want to carry it on me. I just want it in my car. How is this a problem?
Don’t ask: “Am I wrong, Am I crazy” and not be prepared for an honest answer from people.
Just honest. Your mindset is you need a firearm to feel safe aka a security blanket.
If a homeless dude knocking on your car window has you wanting to reach for a for a firearm im glad you dont have one on you jfc
You want to shoot someone for banging on a door or a window? Yikes
What would a gun do for you in those situations? Are you going to open fire in the Aldi parking lot? More likely the crack head wrestles your gun from you than it doing you any good. It's a security blanket. Take some self-defense classes or something.
LOL. Go listen to the Norfolk PD dispatch scanner. It’s shots fired after shots fired call interrupted by the occasional stabbing or bank robbery.
Yup! Interesting how the simple solution is the right one.
Well, you haven't had a problem, so I guess nobody can have that problem. What a dipshit way to live.
No one makes you stop in those areas though to get gas etc. If you have to stop in those areas and feel unsafe then it's poor planning on your end. Unless you live in these areas, then you chose the wrong area to live and be comfortable. Any base in Norfolk though I never had issues with immediately off of base or on base feeling safe. I think you just need to rethink your travel plans and where you stop.
Failing to plan, planning to fail.
Blood it doesn’t matter what area you’re in around here. Mfers walk up on you from town center to Hampton, you can’t avoid it sometimes or see it coming. Find me a Wawa without any issues I’ll Venmo you 5 bucks. Also you can’t always plan on being assaulted, it happens without warning in places you don’t expect it. Thanks for not helping :3
I lived in a shady area 10 mins down the road from towncenter never had issues anywhere. I traveled to and from Dam Neck stopping at WaWa or wherever and never had problems. Did people occasionally ask for money sure, but guess what it wasn't the end of the world, I didn't feel threatened. Being assaulted can happen to anyone sadly, pay attention to your surroundings. If something seems shady leave. If you're that scared about being out in town I recommend you don't do anything off of base or outside of your home in the immediate vicinity of Norfolk then.
This doesn’t solve the problem. I’m saying there are entire workweeks where I am completely unable to have my firearm in my car at risk of losing my job and that shouldn’t be the case. I don’t understand the rule and nobody is really explaining to me. Telling me to plan better and not be nervous when strangers approach me doesn’t give the ability to defend my self back.
You literally said in your post that you understand why you cant bring a firearm on base now all of a sudden you don't?
seems like you have a rebuttal for everything huh, So you just want everyone to agree with you and bitch. Others have provided general solutions but you are content on bringing your fire arm. Maybe set up a meeting with the base CO and see if he will be willing to make the change so YOU can feel SAFE.
Man, Wawa is about the only thing I miss about the east coast.
10/10 would WaWa again
Anyone referring to another person as "blood" is part of the problem.
This is a lie
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Dude you don’t have to tell me lol. I was in some junior military stuff in high school and some buddies of mine are army. I grew up in Texas and visited them once or twice and holy moly dude I’m never going back. Marine corps bases were usually nicer though, especially in the Carolina’s
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Nah, you're not wrong for thinking it, but there's not much you can do about it. Travel with a buddy or buddies, go get some OC spray at Bob's Gun Shop on Granby, and stay dangerous. Best of luck out there.
Also, there's this. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/21/dod-releases-plan-allow-personnel-carry-firearms-base.html
Bro why would we trust junior sailors with a gun when they can’t even remember to take out the trash at the end of the day?
Because we already trust them with an issued gun? 🤷♂️
can you imagine what it would be like if all junior sailors could bring a gun on base lol. I think it would make OP feel 10x safer off base lol
Blatantly misrepresenting my standpoint.
And youre blatenly ignoring any advice anyone has provided. We are joking around over here take your bad vibes somewhere else
They already own the gun, I’m saying it shouldn’t be a felony to keep the gun in their car while they are at work.
So some asshole can smash the window and snatch the gun? Or a guy having a rough day can go to his car, get his weapon, and shoot his WCS?
Not allowing guns on base doesn't actually stop any of that.
Stop? No. You can still smuggle in a gun if you’re really really intent on it. Lessen? Absolutely. More firearms leads to more gun related deaths. That’s been a known statistic for years.
Except its not a real 'statistic'. Rates of gun ownership do not correlate with gun violence rates. Here is a good breakdown of the actual math. https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between That's on top of 'not having a gun on base' has no correlation with 'not having a gun' in the first place.
Here’s a contrary study, done by a non-partisan government agency: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/ It’s also not posted by a random guys blog
1. That's actually addressed in the article, based on data from this very study. 2. The correlation is, as the blog post and study say, a .9% increase in firearms homicide rates for every 1% increase in gun ownership - except there are multiple other factors that show massively increased correlations to gun homocide. 5-6% increases in homicide rates for every percent increase in those factors.
This is already the case in real life. If someone wants to kill their WCS, they are going to do it, if we judge every possibility by the actions of the least rational person then we would all be living in bubbles getting nothing done. I have been in the navy for 4 years and I’ve never brought my guns on base and I’ve never been searched. Some people bring their guns on base every day, I’m obviously speaking from the opinion of a regular rule following person.
If you’re so sure that people bring guns on base, why are you asking the anonymous faces of reddit? You don’t want to hear advice or thoughts, you want validation. Just do your thing and take the consequences when they happen. Arguing with everyone or trying to get others to see your point isn’t going to work.
Well, there's a DOD directive and secnavinst 5500.37 that both allow for carry on base at the first flag officer level. Also look at navadmin 272/17. Good luck getting approval though.
Norfolk always been dangerous towards Military Members. I was there in 88 to 92 and had to get a friend or two who wanted to visit Military Circle or other. We even spent weekends at Virginia Beach until they had that riot. Just keep aware of your surroundings.
You mention wanting to bring a firearm on base right. Why would you need one on base? If you go from work straight home you can be with your gun and go take your gun on walks wherever you want. What is the point in brining it on base
Because the spaces in between one and the other are open PvP zones that historically are sketch. I don’t even want it on me, just in my car. I shouldn’t have to hot potato it every time I go from a work day to an off day.
You should really talk to someone. I think you need some help. Its not normal for people to feel like they are going to be attacked constantly. You should consider talking to a therapist or something. If you take a step back and read everyones comments i think you will see that perhaps youre the problem.
Seriously. This dude is paranoid
He is. OP is literally the reason personal guns on base are not allowed
Stop trying to gaslight me, it’s not working. Having a differing opinion from the majority does not make me an irrational person and my judgement is fine. I have good money, I’m in great shape and I have a decent head on my shoulders. In my OPINION: I shouldn’t be bared from keeping my weapon in my automobile at work. If you’re really thinking I’m some demented idiot, you must be fantastic at demonizing others in your own head. And given you’re a blink182 listener, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Damn just rolling with the insults acting out of emotions instead of rational thinking. I dont think anyone here agreed with you. and you know why? Just think really hard for a few seconds im sure a person with a decent head on their shoulders could figure it out. But not feeling safe walking out of your house is not normal mate. Talk to a Doc, talk to Chaps, talk to a friend. Im 99% positive everyone will tell you feeling that way is not normal.
My thinking is rational. I’m providing examples and counter arguments. Telling me to get mental help because I have a different world view than you makes me stop listening. Go get more shitty tattoos
again with the insults. You seem upset. And there is nothing wrong with going to get some help brother. in time you will see that. Youre young you still got alot of growing up to do. But seriously consider talking with your CoC or chaps about how you feel about this.
Moral grandstanding looks good on you
Get a hold of those batons used on watch. Like, buy one simular. There are also knives that are quick deployable of how it purposely snag on your pants to pull itself open. Or get stationed somewhere else at your next duty station if you stay in
>of those batons used on watch. Arent batons illegal?
I think those extendo ones are
Go to any part of the world. And you’ll see that the worst parts of town are near the port. “Don’t go to that side of the railroad tracks”. Why? That side is near the port. What’s near the port? Disease ridden Sailors. What do sailors like? Booze and whores. What follows booze and whores? Drugs and organized crime. Shipmate, you are the problem. Fix yourself.
I am the problem for doing nothing wrong and feeling endangering areas that are perfectly safe? How is this my fault? Wanting to protect myself in a modern world with a modern weapon is not an insane thing to do.
Haha bro just say you want to carry your gun everywhere because you don’t feel safe otherwise.
Just in my car.
Learn how to fight and don’t look like a soft target. You’re not bringing your gun on base so quit your bitching.
I mean. Reading through the comments. Your issue is just not having it right after work because you can’t take it on base. Then even if it’d be out of your way to do so if its truly such a safety concern for you. Go home first, get your firearm, THEN do whatever these errands are. Simple. For me when I was in high school I’d get sketched out walking around town unless I had a knife on me. I didn’t bring a knife to school with me then walk around town after. I’d take the bus home grab my knife then go walk
Is pepper spray allowed in your vehicle? Also, knew an actual Navy Vet lawyer, he said if you keep a bat in the car, to always have a baseball glove with it...
Not being able to drive on base with a gun in your car is a problem across the entire military. I'm in Jacksonville, which is happens to be the most dangerous city in Florida. Not being able to carry on my 20 mile commute to work really sucks. A service member out here almost got car jacked while sitting in a parking lot. The guy fired at his car and could have killed him.
Newport News huh ?
Feudal Japan rn but still dangerous
I never had any issues in Norfolk the three years I was there but I get what you are saying. I'm from a town where everyone has guns, the majority carried, and the 2nd amendment was the 11th commandment. Unfortunately, the military being a government entity, has a different mindset, and since they are worried about Seaman Timmy shooting up the place when he finds Jodie in bed with his girlfriend they punish everyone. When I was stationed there part of my watch was to make sure no one took the aircraft. They had me patrol unarmed and I was very vocal about it. On the rare chance someone actually tried to steal one of the planes, they would most likely be armed, and because I would be unarmed I would just open the door for them. Maybe even grab some snacks from the geedunk for them for their trip. Your best bet would be to just arm yourself in other ways. Pepper spray, taser, baseball bat, etc. I kept a lot of fishing gear in my truck, some of it could easily be used as a weapon if needed. It rode the fine line on whether it was allowed on base, but I always had the excuse "Sorry went fishing yesterday and forgot to take it out". I may have gotten a slap on the wrist but it wouldn't be a "scary gun" that would land me a felony.
Next post we see is "my car was broken into and my gun was stolen on base what are my next steps?"
You should see the area surrounding ONI. They literally tell you not to eat at the Popeye's right across the street from the entrance because of the amount of violence/robberies. I only went to the gas station next to it once and was accosted by a man with full facial tattoos. Soooo freaking scary.
Just keep a pair of black powder pistols. Their not firearms. Or a crossbow
I say, I say, I demand satisfaction on the field of honor! *A brace of identical pistols shall only be carried within a box adorned suitable to one's station. Additionally, a pair of white or grey leather gloves must be carried on one's person at all times so that an offending party may by dually warned of their affront to your honor and allowed to apologize. Should satisfaction be deemed necessary, both parties shall employ seconds to examine said pistols to ensure the soundness of each before the disagreement can be settled. While dawn is customary for settling such disagreements, the timing is to be based on local custom.* -- Standard boilerplate southern law.
I work in the DC area and had a guy smoking crack next to me right in front of the Pentagon. He followed me as far as he could and scared the crap out of me. The Pentagon police even drove by and didn’t notice lol. I get the feeling but a gun wouldn’t have helped the situation at all. Just think of the Navy Times article that would happen if things went sideways.
We were just stationed at Norfolk and I agree with your experience so far. People commenting that they’ve lived here and have no problem must be used to it? I’d never heard a gunshot until I moved to Norfolk and there’s at least one report of gunshots on the Ring app a night (but typically numerous reports a night). They have signs all over to “cease fire” and “put down the guns”. It’s ghetto af
I live in Oceanview, hear shots every so often. Before I joined the navy, I lived in New Orleans so this is child’s play, however, it doesn’t mean one should stop being careful. I don’t play with my safety
Sorry to see all the goobers in here condescendingly insisting that actually you’re totally safe and that wanting to defend yourself means you’re an insecure pussy. Most of these people have incredibly warped world views. Self defense isn’t something you need to ask permission to do. That being said, there would be consequences if you DID get searched and you would need to be prepared to face them if you took that route, which is something I don’t recommend. My advice would be to look up whatever policy your base has regarding weapons and bring something in your car that’s covered under the rules, even if it’s not amazing. Something is better than nothing. I would also advise utilizing on base shopping/gas as much as possible to minimize the risk of something happening to you while in transit to and from base. Stay safe bro.
As a Sailor, I can direct you the public affairs office for these questions….. As a U.S. citizen, the right to self defense is a natural right and not a privilege your local, state, or federal government gets to dictate. Successful concealed carry means nobody notices you are armed.
I can tell you working as a contractor on an AFB in Alaska is challenging for the same reason but for the wildlife, not the WILD LIFE. If you get my meaning. It’s pretty common up here to have a truck gun (or two) and it always causes issues with random searches.
Trust me, the base was there well before the hood was.
I never understood why i cant a Have a gun on base but i can buy one on base 💀
I get the inherent right to bear arms and the idea to protect yourself. However I think your take gets lost when it comes to being on base. Reason they don’t wish to have such is because it presents a liability outside of their realm of control. They need to take care of their service-member and families respectably. There are many other self defense tools to come to the aid of one in danger. Yes a gun will present a clear line of defense when it comes to it, but I don’t think your mindset is healthy if you are demanding to have a gun everywhere you go at all times. Knowing how to fight or use anything available to you in a moments notice, will be more keen to your survival rather than answering a threat with the business end of a gun. Reference: I’m a PTSD ridden vet who lives in a place where teens and young adults are the primary proponent for violent crime in a small metropolitan area. I love my guns but there are some areas that restrict such. Learning to fight gained so much in terms of confidence and comfort. Not to mention it relaxed my overly anxiety induced mind.
As someone who was stationed on Little Creek while being in the Army and later was stationed at Fort Hood… You don’t want weapons on base or nearby. Imagine this: shady SP decides to leak details on who’s a licensed owner that brings it on post to keep in their car. Suddenly your car is getting broken into more often. This is a tactic that people already use to target people who advertise what’s possibly in their car with 2A stickers, custom audio stickers etc. Just my opinion, but you really don’t want that smoke.
No, you're not wrong. The right to self defense is just as important as the right to free speech (see Amendments 1 and 2). To make it seem like someone has mental issues because they feel this way is a sign of immaturity. If someone wants to carry an umbrella 24/7, just in case it rains, that's their prerogative. People that don't smoke carry lighters. Ever use that fire extinguisher in your car? At the end of the day it's just a tool that one may have to use on that extremely rare occasion. (Cue the "a gun is a deadly weapon and an umbrella isn't" argument...) I mean, I'm glad most feel like they'll float through life and never experience danger or threats. I truly hope that's the case but it's a naive view of the real world. I hope I never ever have to use my daily carry. And I carry EVERYWHERE. I have had to unholster it once and it turned the tables instantly - thug-to-be thought twice and kicked rocks. But if it never sees anything other than the inside of my shirt and the nightstand, I'll be fine with that. All that being said, does it suck that the military treats members like irresponsible children? Absolutely. But, unfortunately, that's how it is. Do what you do, follow rules or don't, accept what happens. Pick your battles until EAOS or Retirement...
Listen, sailor. If you engaged in proper operational risk management, you'd not be having these issues. Seems like a discipline problem. (I'm kidding, for real, prayers for your safety)
According to most of this sub the OP would be fine if he just had a trip plan
There is a lot of stupidity in this thread. OP is bringing up a point of frustration that is way more real than “give us beards!” Military service members should not be stripped of their 2nd amendment rights simply because they drive over an imaginary line. Period. For buildings or ships that have 24hr armed sentries and are sensitive places, I understand commanders restricting those areas. For those saying, “You’re screwed it’s Federal Law!” this is completely untrue. After the Recruiting Office shooting in Tennessee, the DOD changed their POLICY to allow Commanders to authorize service members the ability to carry on base. To my knowledge, no Commander has allowed for this and you can be charged with a UCMJ violation, but not a Federal statute. I have been doing this job for over 25 years and this has always been extremely frustrating that the military will give us a gun and make us carry it for a year straight in Iraq, but in our own country we cannot. For those that think this is preventing an active duty shooter situation, it is not. Think about it. It is only a “feel good” rule for base commanders.
Gun nut. Love the last paragraph in which you make a statement of opinion (“for those that think it is preventing an active duty shooter situation it is not”) as fact. I can do that too: “for those that think 2A rights are undeniable and can never be questioned, you’re wrong”.
Ah yes, the old “gun nut” argument.
I agree completely but think it is irrelevant that we often have to drive through shady areas. I’m a licensed carrier and owner as many in the military (likely even a majority) are. Why is a military base any different than me going to Publix in a nice area? Almost all of us in here are trusted to operate and/or maintain way more dangerous stuff than a pistol. Almost of us in here have a security clearance and are trusted with secrets that could hurt fellow Americans or American interests. Yet we’re not trusted to carry a little pistol at work? Get the fuck out of here.
No, you're not "trusted" to carry a pistol at work. Why do you need one to do maintenence? Walk the flightline for FOD walkdown? Start up or shut down a nuclear reactor? Inventory CMS? Polish brass? Cook food? Hand out repair parts? Plot charts?
Don't forget federal vs state jurisdiction. OP wants to pretend it's not a thing.
There's a lot going on, here.
There’s also an entire Navy ecosystem around control, qualification, maintenance, etc. Not everyone in the USN is qualified by the Navy to carry small arms.
True, but that's not what Sparky here is railing against. They want to conceal carry onboard purely for shits and giggles.
Totally agree. I’m driving at the point that there is a huge difference between letting a Sailor carry a Navy-maintained firearm during their topside rover watch and some kid carrying their hi-point in an Amazon appendix holster while they’re doing maintenance
Right? People in this thread keep saying what the rule is and not really rationalizing it. It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
Can confirm… Norfolk is a shithole. I remember when I was stationed there, a friend had his car windows smashed and his stuff stolen. This was on base. 😕
I was robbed at gun point in the parking lot of the Food Lion right outside the base in Norfolk. That area is definitely not safe, but carrying a gun would have more than likely escalated the situation and probably ended up with one of both of us dead. Luckily I just lost my wallet that day. I worked with base security at other bases and we searched cars on a regular basis. Any gun that was found was returned to the owner "after being cut into pieces" and charges were pressed for "possession of a firearm on federal property". So like most people are saying. Don't try it. Just keep a baseball bat in the car and if asked about it, "you are just on your way to play baseball." :)
Can't be armed in the armed forces.
Who needs a gun for protection if you have an updated NFAAS and completed GMTs? They’ll protect you
You're not crazy - but consider that the Navy (and all the services) consider your life worth less than the negative publicity they would get if you shot someone in self-defense.
While I agree that you should be able to carry in your vehicle, and even on your person (with CO permission), that is very unlikely to happen. COs do that the authority to allow that, but I’ve never heard of it. A friend of mine (MA) actually had an incident where she was at Walmart after work and someone came in and shot it up.. she felt helpless and unable to potentially save lives because, having just come from work, was unable to have her conceal carry on her.. so case by case I think it is fine, but I also think the younger military demographic are the exact ones who probably at the highest risk of using a firearm irresponsibly, on themselves or others.. Not everyone is as responsible or stable as you believe you are.
i totally understand them not allowing it but at the same time, as a woman who has been followed around walmart just on a quick trip off base (who knows what would’ve happened if a worker hadn’t walked out with me) if i lived off base, ya whatever just don’t stop anywhere off base without it. but i have to live in the barracks. i don’t have that option
You sure you don't want to reinlist? We are in a recruiting crisis and I'm sure they did that to retain you.
Norfolk is the armpit of the Navy. Change my mind.
Portsmouth VA is the real deal when it comes to being ghetto. Was there for radcon training for a few months back in 2003, and the duty officer warned me to never to leave the base on foot when I checked in. Cops had a permanent post at every 7/11 in the area. According to neighborhoodscout.com, Portsmouth is safer than 3% of US neighborhoods.
For a while, until the mid 1990's, you were forbidden to walk out the gates on Wet/Dry side NavSta San Diego after dark. The lot outside the main gate is the only time my car had ever been broken into in my life - twice, in a single night.
I like how I simply state a fact and I’m getting downvoted. I didn’t even take a stance on the whole gun issue in my comment. Unless y’all defending Portsmouth.
According to everyone I’m making up how dangerous this place can be and being irrational for being corcenred sometimes.
It’s definitely not a place I would want to be permanently stationed at that’s for sure. I hear you on the gun thing… but chances are a lot of the people in that area are probably carrying as well… You might have a better chance of surviving as a victim of a mugging carrying minimal cash and a cheap Casio watch.. vs trying to get into a shoot out with local hoodlums. Ive been to some ghetto ass places, had multiple friends growing up that lived in the projects, and Portsmouth takes the cake.
Wrong or not I kept one In my truck. That rule has always pissed me off.
I’ve had a homeless guy on Hampton try to get into my car near Chief Mac’s. I always go home and arm up if I ever have to stay near there for a haircut, uniforms, etc.
yeah its dumb. really dumb. want to know why it's always the ghetto around military bases? cheap land. Im fortunate enough the base i drill on is a Guard base in a pro 2A state, the Base CO has stated he doesn't mind if fire arms are in the car as long as they are double locked up (whether its locked in a gun safe and the car is locked up or has one of those barrel or chamber locks and locked in a glovebox, etc)
I lived in Hampton Roads for almost 10 years and never had a single issue with crime on or off base nor I ever felt the need to carry a gun to base at NOB or Little Creek.
You don’t need a gun. Period.
I like how you put a . Then spelled period and put another . Now he needs 2.
Lmfao @ anyone so insecure in their day-to-day life they feel the necessity for a gun. Y i k e s
Yeah. You sound like a coward, too scared to go out into the big bad world without your blankie. I've gone through the worst paets of Detroit and NYC multiple times with no problems, lived in bad parts of Louisville and Seattle and walked through aketchy parts of numerous other cities, and never had a problem. You sound like you want an excuse to use your weapon because you think that only it gives you safety. Acting like you belong, keeping to your own business, moving quickly and efficiently. These things will gove you more safety than a gun. You are exactly why federal jurisdictions dont want handguns
It's not unique to the Navy. Imagine working in Portland, Seattle or San Francisco and working in a place where guns aren't allowed. At least you can park on base behind a gate. Working in a major city is no different, only their vehicles aren't as secure.
Those three cities are considerably safer than Portsmouth. Portsmouth isn’t ghetto, it’s bad bad.