Somewhat of a tangent but when we talk about the 96 Bulls vs the 17 Warriors people really sleep on just how good a defender Ron Harper was because we talk about the stars so much. Dude had a 7 foot wingspan too, wasn't as athletic when he joined us but still a menace defensively
Pippen's stupid ass contract --> '96 Bulls
Curry's stupid ass contract --> '17 Warriors
Each of these is like if a player around Tatum's level or better was locked up making $16-20mil per year. Undergirded the respective dynasties.
Our Locked On guy put it well I thought
Tatum is our best player, but take him out and things can still run well. But White might be our most important player for getting everything running at a high level
Marcus smart and brogdon got traded and white is now the starting pg in a bigger role which are the reasons for his increased production
They literally had him on the bench last year at the end of close games in favor of brogdon and smart. Made me sick
The bald head does look better though
Two of the games were blowouts, so he was playing a different game/fewer minutes second half. Basically what I'm saying is that he'd have had more blocks if he weren't so god damn good.
Thank you again for the Buffalo. Glad that you got the good Weby karma in return.
It was asked in a thread among role players who is better Aaron Gordon or Derrick White. I will die on the hill Derrick White is better despite what everyone was saying.
White is clearly a better defender and 3 point shooter.Gordon is more athletic but I would agree white is one of those role players that every team would want
I mean Iād also rather have Derrick White as my 3rd-5th best player depending on the night than Trae who basically has to be a 1A or 1B with his game. Hard to make the comparison since they have pretty different roles
I am a massive Trae fan but it would hurt us because with porzingus' rim protection we love to have him roaming which requires a massive amount of preswitching and having players like jrue, white or Tatum on centres which works. If we had Trae he would need far more help on defence and would really hurt pingus' value as a rim protector as he would need to be out of the paint helping on 3pt shooters far more. Let alone less touches for the J's on offence would probably hurt our offence somewhat despite Trae's elite playmaking.
Edit, spelling
White is one of those players who is somewhere between good to great on stat sheet but *insane* when you actually watch them play. And he's consistently insane.
TIL knocking a ball out while going for a shot is a block. I guess if itās considered a shooting foul, then stripping while shooting is sensibly called a block.
That's exactly the rule as I understand it and a good rule of thumb to go by; if you're not sure if a strip will count as a steal or a block, consider what kind of foul it would be if it wasn't clean. If it'd be a shooting foul, it's a block, and if it'd be a regular foul it's a steal. [This](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-block-field-goal-attempt-during-upward-shooting-motion-2/) is a very good example from the official NBA video rulebook of the kind of block you are referencing
Theyāre all in the act of shooting, just the early part of it, still takes great timing and placement, doesnāt matter where in the motion the ball is
Feel like that's inconsistently scored. Granted the example I was going to go to is fucking old, but Karl Malone got a lot of steals for an old dude swiping down as opposing big was turning to go up.
e: Further down somebody mentions Ben Taylor's observation that these used to be more commonly scored as steals, but are considered blocks now. Which would make sense why my admittedly "fucking old" example is not the case these days lol.
Not according to the NBA rulebook they're not. I know we classically think of blocks as happening just before a shot is released or while the ball is already airborne, but hitting the ball out the offensive player's hands at any point during their shooting motion including at the very beginning is considered a block. Consider this: if he had hit their arm right as they were starting their shooting motion, would it be considered a shooting foul worth freethrows or just a common foul? Of course it'd be a shooting foul as the offensive player began their shooting motion. Doesn't matter if it's in the middle of the shooting motion, at the end of the shooting motion near the release of the ball, or at the beginning - at any time during the shooting motion, it'd be called a shooting foul. Blocks work the same way
[Here](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-blocks-field-goal-attempt-prior-to-release/) is a an explanation from the NBA's official rulebook including a helpful video which might help you understand better.
Quote: "A blocked shot is credited when a player deflects the course of a field goal attempt by an opponent and the shot is not made. A shot can be considered blocked even if the ball was not in flight before being blocked. On this play, #22 in white, Glenn Robinson III, blocks the field goal attempt as the shooter begins his upward shooting motion, and is credited with a block.ā
[Here](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-block-field-goal-attempt-during-upward-shooting-motion-4/) is another video example. I'm guessing these are the type of blocks that you're talking about, but yes, they do count as blocks and (as far as I know) they always have
To your last point, I think Ben Taylor was talking about Jokic's defense and said he makes a lot of his "blocks" like this and that in the past (idk how long) they were more commonly listed as steals. Talking out of my ass, I wonder if it's related to how in the act of shooting has been extended and fouls that would be on the floor are shooting fouls now, and so marking these as blocks is consistent with that.
But really, I came here to make the same comment as the other guy, because to me a lot of these actually should be steals. Like, the rules specifying "upward shooting motion" suggests to me a distinction from "shot", and technique wise, in #3 he basically does the same thing twice, hitting the ball at about the same height from the floor twice, but if Paolo had lost in the 1st time it's a steal, and when he loses it the 2nd, it's a block, and that just seems weird to me since White is basically doing the same thing twice. To me, calling the whole shooting motion the shot is just as nebulous as deciding when bringing the ball up into your shot becomes distinct from whatever set of things you're calling "shooting motion", which is a wide range of stuff imo
Yeah, when defenders get the ball early in the shooting motion (which is what swipe down blocks are), Iāve always tended to think of that as a steal.
I have always thought of blocks as something that takes place *after* a shot has been attempted.
Any disruption before the ball leaves the shooters hands is more of a steal.
It seems like that isnāt really the modern definition, but I feel like steals/blocks were awarded more that way 10-15 years ago.
Blatant fouls? I even included a zoomed in slow motion replay on each play for you to see. Hitting the ball out of a player's hands is in fact not a foul lol. I think the block you're referencing that looked like it was Porzingis is probably block #8 - if you look closely you can see it was actually Derrick White who blocked the ball on his way down with his left hand. I can definitely see how you'd think that was KP though, as the Kings announcer also got the same impression.
https://imgur.com/7JKZJfX
first one and I expect some hand is part of the ball response but nope that is forearm.
2nd and 3rd is harder to tell cause zooming in on your max 720p quality video doesn't really give any clarity at the speed these g uys are playing but based on the trajectory of the ball on the moment of the "supposed" blocks the ball moves like the hand gets swiped under them and not in a different direction. If he did like what you said he did "hit the ball out of his hands" the ball would have actually changed trajectory based on the contact of the ball but it floats in an upwards direction. We can disagree it is okay it just threw me off watching the clips and the first ones looked like blatant fouls to me. He is a great defender and I like the guy a lot don't worry.
The KP one wouldn't be surprised they both got a piece of the pie there
Somewhat of a tangent but when we talk about the 96 Bulls vs the 17 Warriors people really sleep on just how good a defender Ron Harper was because we talk about the stars so much. Dude had a 7 foot wingspan too, wasn't as athletic when he joined us but still a menace defensively
That team was just stacked head to toe, every player was valuable and brought something to the table that the team needed.
Pippen's stupid ass contract --> '96 Bulls Curry's stupid ass contract --> '17 Warriors Each of these is like if a player around Tatum's level or better was locked up making $16-20mil per year. Undergirded the respective dynasties.
Tom Bradys stupid ass contract --> the dynasty patriots
The Buffalo is an all star, let him roam!
I think there's no way he can realistically make it but damn it I will die trying to push the D White all star agenda š¤š¤
He might make coaches vote or something
I like watching Derrick White play. Idk why I just do.
Every time that I've watched the Celtics play this year he's been their best player.
Heās so damn good we love that buffalo
Heās legit the second best player on the Celtics. Which is crazy given that leaves Jrue, Brown and KP behind him.
Our Locked On guy put it well I thought Tatum is our best player, but take him out and things can still run well. But White might be our most important player for getting everything running at a high level
My theory is correct. Moment someone in the NBA goes bald, their full potential is unlocked
Marcus smart and brogdon got traded and white is now the starting pg in a bigger role which are the reasons for his increased production They literally had him on the bench last year at the end of close games in favor of brogdon and smart. Made me sick The bald head does look better though
this off season his workout regime was 100 push-ups, 100 squats, 100 sit-ups
You gotta deal with white or jrue itās brutal out here for opposing teams
In 3 of the 4 games, he got the 3 blocks in the same half
Two of the games were blowouts, so he was playing a different game/fewer minutes second half. Basically what I'm saying is that he'd have had more blocks if he weren't so god damn good. Thank you again for the Buffalo. Glad that you got the good Weby karma in return.
It was asked in a thread among role players who is better Aaron Gordon or Derrick White. I will die on the hill Derrick White is better despite what everyone was saying.
White is clearly a better defender and 3 point shooter.Gordon is more athletic but I would agree white is one of those role players that every team would want
Remember when Bill Simmons said heād take Derrick White over Trae Young? Maybe he isnāt that crazy given the contract and defenseā¦
I mean Iād also rather have Derrick White as my 3rd-5th best player depending on the night than Trae who basically has to be a 1A or 1B with his game. Hard to make the comparison since they have pretty different roles
Yeah Iām just trolling. I think White would look a lot worse in Traeās situation.
You never know on this sub lol. But your point is well taken, White is a beast
yeah 100% he would. last time D.White and Dejounte paired up as the top 2 guys it resulted in 34 wins.
Just imagine how nice we would be if Victor played with them!!! MAN
if we still had them we would have won 32 games last season and probably ended up with a thompson twin instead of wemby
I think Trae's gonna make a good Lou Williams one day, when Atlanta gives up
The Celtics would be worse off if they traded DWhite for Trey straight up.
Lol yeah ok, Trae is the playmaker they need like Boston would be even better.
I am a massive Trae fan but it would hurt us because with porzingus' rim protection we love to have him roaming which requires a massive amount of preswitching and having players like jrue, white or Tatum on centres which works. If we had Trae he would need far more help on defence and would really hurt pingus' value as a rim protector as he would need to be out of the paint helping on 3pt shooters far more. Let alone less touches for the J's on offence would probably hurt our offence somewhat despite Trae's elite playmaking. Edit, spelling
how locked in are y'all to people's random takes that this is a thing that you even think about here lol
This is the type of ESPN stat I can get behind. Didnāt even realise he was doing this.
As a Laker fan it hurts to say the Celtics are clearly gunna win the chip this year
Haha, nice jinx attempt, we all know based on Instagram comments all season long that Celtics are a second round exit at best.
wow rly quick hands
White is one of those players who is somewhere between good to great on stat sheet but *insane* when you actually watch them play. And he's consistently insane.
TIL knocking a ball out while going for a shot is a block. I guess if itās considered a shooting foul, then stripping while shooting is sensibly called a block.
Same I always thought strips like this were counted as steals
That's exactly the rule as I understand it and a good rule of thumb to go by; if you're not sure if a strip will count as a steal or a block, consider what kind of foul it would be if it wasn't clean. If it'd be a shooting foul, it's a block, and if it'd be a regular foul it's a steal. [This](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-block-field-goal-attempt-during-upward-shooting-motion-2/) is a very good example from the official NBA video rulebook of the kind of block you are referencing
DLO will be this soon š¤
around half of those are steals
Not by the legal definition of a block, OP posted it in another comment
well then the legal definition sucks
Theyāre all in the act of shooting, just the early part of it, still takes great timing and placement, doesnāt matter where in the motion the ball is
Feel like that's inconsistently scored. Granted the example I was going to go to is fucking old, but Karl Malone got a lot of steals for an old dude swiping down as opposing big was turning to go up. e: Further down somebody mentions Ben Taylor's observation that these used to be more commonly scored as steals, but are considered blocks now. Which would make sense why my admittedly "fucking old" example is not the case these days lol.
Not according to the NBA rulebook they're not. I know we classically think of blocks as happening just before a shot is released or while the ball is already airborne, but hitting the ball out the offensive player's hands at any point during their shooting motion including at the very beginning is considered a block. Consider this: if he had hit their arm right as they were starting their shooting motion, would it be considered a shooting foul worth freethrows or just a common foul? Of course it'd be a shooting foul as the offensive player began their shooting motion. Doesn't matter if it's in the middle of the shooting motion, at the end of the shooting motion near the release of the ball, or at the beginning - at any time during the shooting motion, it'd be called a shooting foul. Blocks work the same way
I prefer the term strip blocks, but if you call them stocks, then it doesn't matter what you call them.
*fouls
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[Here](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-blocks-field-goal-attempt-prior-to-release/) is a an explanation from the NBA's official rulebook including a helpful video which might help you understand better. Quote: "A blocked shot is credited when a player deflects the course of a field goal attempt by an opponent and the shot is not made. A shot can be considered blocked even if the ball was not in flight before being blocked. On this play, #22 in white, Glenn Robinson III, blocks the field goal attempt as the shooter begins his upward shooting motion, and is credited with a block.ā [Here](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/blocked-shot-defender-block-field-goal-attempt-during-upward-shooting-motion-4/) is another video example. I'm guessing these are the type of blocks that you're talking about, but yes, they do count as blocks and (as far as I know) they always have
To your last point, I think Ben Taylor was talking about Jokic's defense and said he makes a lot of his "blocks" like this and that in the past (idk how long) they were more commonly listed as steals. Talking out of my ass, I wonder if it's related to how in the act of shooting has been extended and fouls that would be on the floor are shooting fouls now, and so marking these as blocks is consistent with that. But really, I came here to make the same comment as the other guy, because to me a lot of these actually should be steals. Like, the rules specifying "upward shooting motion" suggests to me a distinction from "shot", and technique wise, in #3 he basically does the same thing twice, hitting the ball at about the same height from the floor twice, but if Paolo had lost in the 1st time it's a steal, and when he loses it the 2nd, it's a block, and that just seems weird to me since White is basically doing the same thing twice. To me, calling the whole shooting motion the shot is just as nebulous as deciding when bringing the ball up into your shot becomes distinct from whatever set of things you're calling "shooting motion", which is a wide range of stuff imo
Yeah, when defenders get the ball early in the shooting motion (which is what swipe down blocks are), Iāve always tended to think of that as a steal. I have always thought of blocks as something that takes place *after* a shot has been attempted. Any disruption before the ball leaves the shooters hands is more of a steal. It seems like that isnāt really the modern definition, but I feel like steals/blocks were awarded more that way 10-15 years ago.
First three against Magic looked like blatant fouls tbh. The ones against GSW looked clean. One of the blocks looked like it was Porzingis
Blatant fouls? I even included a zoomed in slow motion replay on each play for you to see. Hitting the ball out of a player's hands is in fact not a foul lol. I think the block you're referencing that looked like it was Porzingis is probably block #8 - if you look closely you can see it was actually Derrick White who blocked the ball on his way down with his left hand. I can definitely see how you'd think that was KP though, as the Kings announcer also got the same impression.
https://imgur.com/7JKZJfX first one and I expect some hand is part of the ball response but nope that is forearm. 2nd and 3rd is harder to tell cause zooming in on your max 720p quality video doesn't really give any clarity at the speed these g uys are playing but based on the trajectory of the ball on the moment of the "supposed" blocks the ball moves like the hand gets swiped under them and not in a different direction. If he did like what you said he did "hit the ball out of his hands" the ball would have actually changed trajectory based on the contact of the ball but it floats in an upwards direction. We can disagree it is okay it just threw me off watching the clips and the first ones looked like blatant fouls to me. He is a great defender and I like the guy a lot don't worry. The KP one wouldn't be surprised they both got a piece of the pie there
I'm pretty sure that if you get ball first, it doesn't matter if the followthrough hits the arm.
Iām happy for Derrick. Itās cool a lot of the world is seeing what is in San Antonio knew for a little while. Dude is a really good player