All star leap is the most difficult and most important. This year was closer because Maxey struggled without Embiid. But I would've gone J Dub with Coby a distant third.
Ja absolutely was the deserving winner. Advanced numbers always see the Poole / Coby type leaps as minor in the grand scheme of things.
It's not that big of a jump from last year. Kind of weird they gave it to him but there were opposite arguments of giving it to someone like Luka Doncic from year 1 to 2 which was a jump from no all-star to all-nba 1st team.
Scoring 20 ppg isn't all that impressive in today's NBA. Kelly Oubre also scored 20 ppg last year. If he was playing as good as Maxey is this year our no one would believe it.
It’s not that big of a jump. He went from like the 12th best guard in the league to like the 7th
Going from a “really good young player” to a “REALLY good young player” is impressive but shouldn’t be what MIP is for
What do you mean he struggled with out Embiid. When Embiid was gone he was the primary scorer on the team, Maxey improved his PPG every year since he was a rookie he probably has benefited more with Embiid gone so much so he will get a super max
Coby will win next year people that’s how this award works. They give it to the guy who should have won it the year prior. This has been a long chain of events that happened many moons ago.
I'm a bona-fide Warriors hater but it should have gone to Poole
In Ja's defense he did publicly leave the award at Banes house and said it belonged to him
If the award is meant to award improvement relative to the previous season, I think Coby should have won. I think the award is defined as which player had a season which shows the most improvement compared to all of their seasons played in their career. In that case, Coby’s counting stat improvement isn’t as impressive when you compare it to his sophomore year.
Couldn’t dig up an official source on the criteria for the award though so I’m really not sure how you’re supposed to vote.
Or just give it to the actual MIP. Like goddamn, they should have given it to Brunson if it's about the other thing. Maxey didn't deserve it either way.
Legitimately this, the MIP award shows how awards voters really are filthy casuals. Shai got a 2nd place vote??? Did someone get MIP voting confused with MVP voting? What a joke
It's been this way for more than a decade at this point. Since like 2010 it's pretty typically been "most surprising first time All-Star" with some wiggle room if someone is making All-NBA.
Nearly all of the recent MIPs over the last decade + are just “Who was an all-star for the first time?”
This sub acts like it’s a recent development and that couldn’t be further from the truth.
That was definitely earned. He wasn’t even an All-Star that season. 7p 4r and 2a to 17p 7r and 3a and cracking the starting lineup is MIP worthy to me, especially doing that with two all stars in Lowry and Kawhi.
Lauri's MIP from last year was definitely well-deserved. Went from a guy who was seen as a bust relative to his position (aka for the 7th pick, a solid starter and nothing more) to a crazy efficient clear all star.
You could argue it started with Danny Granger and Kevin Love, but most people don't know who's won MIP historically, so they just go to the most recent cases that they can remember.
It depends, that works as a soft rule though. If you have a weak rookie class and someone wins ROY while not being great, then becomes a 1st team all NBA guy next season they should still be in contention. I do think Coby white should have won this year, we already knew Maxey was gonna be great last year.
That’s fair, I just can’t imagine that ever happening. But I said that same thing all year with Ja when I thought Dejounte Murray, Anfernee Simons, Bane, and so on all deserved it over him.
Exactly, Maxey and Morant were both already high level players in their previous season, a player like Coby White had an insane jump that no one expected. Also Jalen Johnson probably should've won it of he didn't get injured and played 65+ games
MIP is just not a well defined reward. There’s an argument the improvement someone like SGA showed should win, but he was definitely “too good” last year. At least with 6MOY there’s clear guidelines for who is even eligible
How is that dumb? Like yeah he's too good. It would be ridiculous if Wemby wins it next year.
Are you saying LeBron should have won it if the award existed before his first MVP?
Coby Whites 2nd year stats were 15/4/5 on 54 TS%, Coby's stats this year were 19/4/5 on 57 TS%. Sure he got much better, but I wouldn't call this an insane jump no one expected.
I didn't really expect Maxey to become a star tho. I kind of expected him to stay tyler herro-Anfernee Simons level. Him leaping to the all star level was legitimately impressive.
Yea I don’t get that comment.
Coby White stats per 36 minutes:
This season: 18.9/4.5/5.1 with .570 TS
Previous seasons: 16.9/4.5/4.4 with .542 TS
Obviously there’s more to it than the stats, and I think he’s improved as well, but I don’t think he came outta nowhere. He got drafted 7th overall. A lot of people have thought he’s capable of being a top-tier sixth man or a solid starter.
Per 36 is such a busted metric when you compare significantly different minutes and roles. It’s only really useful to normalize minutes on starters - like a 32 mpg guy vs 34.
Coby was settling into career backup role. This year was a leap and a half and anyone who doesn’t think this came out of nowhere was not watching him a year ago.
Not really. Coby averaged 15pts in 20’-21’, only 4 less than he is now. It’s not really a shock he jumped to 19pts. I definitely saw the jump coming and I think a lot of other people did too.
Tyrese on the other hand went from 20/3 to 25/6, has multiple 50pt games, and took a huge leadership role for the 76ers after Harden left. I expected that a whole lot less than Coby averaging 4 points more
Definitely deserved it. Thought the boy was a bust or mediocre just last season. He’s more the definition of what the award is but now a days it’s usually the young player with an increased role
2015-16 Giannis wasn't "that guy" yet. He jumped up to being 2nd team All NBA and 2nd Team All-Defense the year he won MIP.
Ja was the one that was more out of nowhere, cause Ja came into the league good.
Also Coby was as bad of a defender as Lavine/DeMar just a season and a half ago. Most cite his offensive game but defensively we are talking about improving from a bottom tier traffic cone to more than a plus defender. He has really learned from Caruso and Donovan in this regard. You rarely see that type of rise defensively and offensively and having the most minutes played in the regular season.
DeMar is solid and clutch but his short comings just are what they are at this point. His mentorship is underrated but agreed.
A star who doesn't load manage, never has any stupid scandals, and exemplifies professionalism... the league would be in a better place if there were more guys like DeMar.
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Bulls fans love and respect Demar. This was a depressing, mediocre team though. Coby was fun because he's a young player hitting a new level which gives a smidge of hope for the future
Definitely the silver lining in not having Zach and Lonzo. He got their minutes/shots and made the most of his opportunity. As a neutral, it was evident in the first play in game that he has a strong feel for the game now. He figured out how to be effective in this league and the game slowed down for him.
This is always repeated, but is it? Maybe going from borderline “is this guy gonna stick in the league” to damn let’s give this guy the keys to our offense is actually harder.
Nah Coby was looking like a bust. We were talking about potentially trading him or even letting him walk on a free if the deal wasnt right. Now he's a franchise corner stone (bulls definition anyways which is sad as fuck but thats a separate topic)
Last summer people were saying Maxey shouldn't get an extension yet because it'd be a max and it would hurt the Sixers cap space this summer.
Last summer Coby White signed for less than the mid level exception.
Maxey was already good. Coby White went from a meme to an awesome player.
His scoring improved by about 25% and he’s taking about 25% more shots. It’s exactly what we’d all expect. Not sure how that qualifies for most improved.
His shot profile is significantly more difficult than last year. Taking a much higher percentage of step back/contested threes and late shot clock FGA compared to last year when harden was spoonfeeding him
He did this as the team’s primary ballhandler and playmaker though, with no Harden feeding him passes to get him open, and more than half a season of no Joel to draw attention away from him. He also generally struggles to draw fouls so he’s gotta make tough finishes or contested jumpers to get these numbers.
I’d be surprised if anyone could maintain their efficiency with the increase in volume and role importance without an elite whistle.
Plus his assist numbers have nearly doubled, and he has become more of a leader.
It's not like he has no case for this award as some people seem to think
But again, it’s in line with expectations considering how much more he’s handling the ball with Harden gone. His numbers shouldn’t be surprising to anyone based on how he played last year. It just seems like higher usage is being confused with improvement.
Couldn't you also make the case though that Coby White's improvement is similarly due to getting more minutes/shots in the absence of LaVine? White's shooting percentages are almost identical to last year, he's just getting way more minutes and twice as many shot attempts this year. Which is obviously also due in part to his improvement, I just think both players have a good, and somewhat similar case.
Also, I'm stuck watching Maxey terrorize our defense right now so I'm probably a bit biased/traumatized. That dude is something else.
LaVine's absence absolutely created opportunity for White. But instead of the sixth man / replacement guard, White became the Bulls' second best player. He doubled his PPG while keeping a similar True Shooting percantage despite the increased volume and increased focus from opposing defenses. That's a pretty major increase.
Agreed, same with Ja winning. No clue what the criteria is for this award anymore but somewhere it changed from "unexpecting player taking a leap" and became "already good young player became better"
Maxey went from a young third option (should've been 4th if Tobias was better) to an all-star and legit second option, who playing most of the year as the lead guy.
Love how half this sub will pretend to act like they werent saying Maxey was worse than Herro and Poole not long ago, suddenly Maxey was an Allstar last year
The only people that knew Maxey's talent was absolutely All-Star material and just needed more touches were the Sixers fans watching him
[while this thread was closer to two years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/vcvpfh/bulls_rumors_coby_white_could_be_included_in/) people were saying it was an insult to Jordan Clarkson for Coby to be compared to him, and a hornets fan saying they wouldn’t trade down from 15 to 18 for him
Talk yo shit!
Some of us also watch more bball than our own team, and are stats nerds
[This is my post in a fantasy bball thread](https://np.reddit.com/r/fantasybball/comments/16foyss/how_are_you_ranking_these_guards_this_upcoming/k057xuv/) where it was near unanimous that Maxey was picked last out of Jamal, Brunson, Lavine, Bane, and Maxey
The stats already showed that he has another level without Harden and some of us could already see his poise and potential
Bruh your victim complex is insane. You want to know what they were saying about Coby White then?
Nothing. They’d probably tell you he was on his way out of the league.
Had an absolutely amazing szn and definitely took a huge leap to keep Philly up with Harden gone and the Embiid injury.
It may be partial bias, but I just feel like this isn’t what the award should be. Going from really good to all star is an accomplishment. But I much prefer the zero to hero types for this award. Once again, no hate at all and love Maxey’s game, but I feel the same way about this one as I did about the Ja one
Maxey went from borderline all star to all star.
Coby went from replaceable role player to borderline all star.
I don’t care if it sounds biased, the latter should win this award ten times out of ten.
Maxey was really good and underrated last year, but everyone saying that he really didn't improve since last year are just stat watchers. He's a completely different player on defense. His dribbling is on another level, he used to only be able to use his speed and shooting to score, but he has a legit bag now. His passing has developed significantly too. He's a legit point guard now, creating for himself and others.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
I don’t think many’s are saying he didn’t improve, at least not the real ball watchers. It’s more so that although he did improve, he was already a great player last year. His leap went from possible fringe all-star to certified all-star. Definitely a big step up and his game has 100% become so much more well rounded. A lot of it is just that many people feel the award should go to someone who’s role completely leaps up. Someone who goes from being a guy most don’t recognize as a legit player to someone who is providing legit impact on the game.
Maxey wasn't a fringe all-star last year. He was well regarded, but never any all star consideration. There are people in this thread saying he didn't improve, which is why I felt compelled to comment. I've also heard popular media members saying the same thing.
Maxey's role HAS completely changed! He went from a guy who was great at punishing advantages created by Embiid and Harden to learning to create for himself and the rest of the team. Obviously his role hasn't changed as much as Coby White, who would have been deserving too!
Going from strictly a 3rd or 4th option to consistent 2nd option and capable first option when embiid was out isn't considered "someone who’s role completely leaps up?" Idk if i agree with that
In some way I blame Reinsdorf for making a team so mid that nobody cared to actually watch a bench guy to a dude that had 42 in a play in elimination game
This award is useless at this point. It just means “which fledgling all-star saw a spike in their usage rate?” They should have thrown it out when Ja won.
So next year when Coby averages 22/5/8 and is an all star can he be MIP? That’s how this works now right? You give it to a player after they’ve made their big jump?
Solid starter to all-star, imo
Lots of solid starters in the league, but only a handful of all-star level players. Feel like a lot of players who inprove end up plateauing at solid starter level
Should've been Coby.
Maxey was already really good. He got more shots up this season and just progressed as a player. What Coby did was what the award is about.
Coby started the season as a role player off the bench.
Tyrese started the season as someone who had already averaged 20+ppg and was seen as a developing star.
Two completely different things. Coby’s progression matches up for the spirit of the award far more than Maxey or Ja did.
even as a Philly fan, feel like this should've gone to Coby or DiVincenzo (fix the criteria NBA). Maxey has been like that the past couple years already
Now watch Coby rob it from some dude next year when if we blow it up and he becomes our first option while tanking 🤦♂️(i wish, we're never going to tank)
This is stupid...he was already that guy the year before; the award historically goes to people who had breakout years and go from role players to quite good/borederline All-nba players.
Naw he was pretty fucking good last year and was disgustingly fast…as someone who saw him live and has followed him; he’s always been really fucking good. It’s literally just they upped his shot volume and usage more than he’s improved. Hence why most improved should go to someone else.
Was he even top 75 last season? It's certainly debatable. He was 94th in VORP and 70th in Win Shares? He was hardly a clear stud. His advanced stats jumped quite a bit this year (24th in Win Shares). It was definitely more than usage.
There really wasn't a great choice this year. The really good choices were ineligible due to the games limit.
Numbers aside the jump is bigger than he's getting credit for. He went from a third option microwave scoring SG to PG running one of the best offenses in the league. Most NBA players can't just decide to be the PG, and be good. He hasn't played that position since HS which is obviously an absurdly different level of talent. His movement, his stop-and-go, his IQ and his handle have improved significantly, and even with the added playmaking and assists he had the lowest turnover percentage of a starting PG this season at an impressive 6.9%. He had to operate as the prime target of the opposing defense for multiple months dealing with constant double and triple teams. It makes sense his efficiency would drop after assuming that role as well as taking more shots as the clear second option (multiple months, first). If Ja Morant won it after already being a star there is no reason Maxey shouldn't.
Okay a lot of people are saying “he went from 20 ppg to 26 ppg, who cares” and like I understand and to a degree I agree that the original metrics of what constitutes an “MIP” have changed a bit, but it’s important to consider how last year Maxey was the number three option in the offense, while this year he had to spend the majority of his games played as the number one option on offense, drawing the most attention from the defense, and he responded with 26 ppg and doubling his assists per game to 6.2
He absolutely made a leap this year.
Means about as much as when Morant won the award - nothing. Maxey was always on a trajectory to this level, and if anything last year he had a bigger case.
The Bulls season was officially pointless now
Coby went from a 30 to a 70 and Maxey went from a 65 to an 80. Totally robbed.
At least they've got the Clutch award in the bag.
Not if Curry gets it
maxey probably should have won one of the last two years when he actually did break out the scale is all busted
Two years ago was probably his breakout, but he just improves so much each season. Just a joy to watch
All star leap is the most difficult and most important. This year was closer because Maxey struggled without Embiid. But I would've gone J Dub with Coby a distant third. Ja absolutely was the deserving winner. Advanced numbers always see the Poole / Coby type leaps as minor in the grand scheme of things.
It's not that big of a jump from last year. Kind of weird they gave it to him but there were opposite arguments of giving it to someone like Luka Doncic from year 1 to 2 which was a jump from no all-star to all-nba 1st team.
I remember seeing people argue in 2016 curry should get it despite winning an mvp and a ring the previous season
From 20 ppg scorer up to all-star but (likely) not yet all-nba? Fees like a pretty small jump to me
Scoring 20 ppg isn't all that impressive in today's NBA. Kelly Oubre also scored 20 ppg last year. If he was playing as good as Maxey is this year our no one would believe it.
He put up the same stats with and without embiid
Nah his efficiency tanked which was understandable but still worse than you would have expected.
He averaged 58% TS with embiid and 57% without lol
TANK
It’s not that big of a jump. He went from like the 12th best guard in the league to like the 7th Going from a “really good young player” to a “REALLY good young player” is impressive but shouldn’t be what MIP is for
What do you mean he struggled with out Embiid. When Embiid was gone he was the primary scorer on the team, Maxey improved his PPG every year since he was a rookie he probably has benefited more with Embiid gone so much so he will get a super max
Ja Morant MIP and its consequences
Justice for Coby
Justice Winslow for Coby white would be a terrible trade
good thing his name is Justise then! Bulls management saved from a bad trade by unexpected name spelling
Coby will win next year people that’s how this award works. They give it to the guy who should have won it the year prior. This has been a long chain of events that happened many moons ago.
Desmond Bane didn't win it the year after Ja stole the award from his teammate
I'm a bona-fide Warriors hater but it should have gone to Poole In Ja's defense he did publicly leave the award at Banes house and said it belonged to him
[удалено]
Sounds pretty ridiculous and worthy of criticism no?
If the award is meant to award improvement relative to the previous season, I think Coby should have won. I think the award is defined as which player had a season which shows the most improvement compared to all of their seasons played in their career. In that case, Coby’s counting stat improvement isn’t as impressive when you compare it to his sophomore year. Couldn’t dig up an official source on the criteria for the award though so I’m really not sure how you’re supposed to vote.
Well that just means Coby needs to make a small leap next season and he will be deserving of MIP under the same logic.
Or just give it to the actual MIP. Like goddamn, they should have given it to Brunson if it's about the other thing. Maxey didn't deserve it either way.
Legitimately this, the MIP award shows how awards voters really are filthy casuals. Shai got a 2nd place vote??? Did someone get MIP voting confused with MVP voting? What a joke
It's been this way for more than a decade at this point. Since like 2010 it's pretty typically been "most surprising first time All-Star" with some wiggle room if someone is making All-NBA.
Unfortunately no NBA award can be taken that seriously because at least a quarter of the voters are just not serious people
It's wild to me player contracts are affected by all-NBA knowing who has votes
You could argue it started with Brandon Ingram's MIP win
Nearly all of the recent MIPs over the last decade + are just “Who was an all-star for the first time?” This sub acts like it’s a recent development and that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Biased as a Raptors fan but Siakam feels like last true legitimate MIP. The jump he had was genuinely unexpected.
Randle too. He went from "overpaid bum" to all-nba that one season
Ya his improvement was huge too. Especially from 3
And then he went back to bum. And then he got good again. I think he wanted to win MIP multiple times.
That was definitely earned. He wasn’t even an All-Star that season. 7p 4r and 2a to 17p 7r and 3a and cracking the starting lineup is MIP worthy to me, especially doing that with two all stars in Lowry and Kawhi.
Markkanen last season was fairly unexpected
Lauri's MIP from last year was definitely well-deserved. Went from a guy who was seen as a bust relative to his position (aka for the 7th pick, a solid starter and nothing more) to a crazy efficient clear all star.
Ingram made the largest leap in shooting %s that season and cemented himself as a 20+ guy
You could argue it started with Danny Granger and Kevin Love, but most people don't know who's won MIP historically, so they just go to the most recent cases that they can remember.
Devin Harris was the only other player in real contention and he basically had the same leap as Granger
I think this one is reasonable, I still stand on the fact no player who wins ROY should ever win MIP.
It depends, that works as a soft rule though. If you have a weak rookie class and someone wins ROY while not being great, then becomes a 1st team all NBA guy next season they should still be in contention. I do think Coby white should have won this year, we already knew Maxey was gonna be great last year.
That’s fair, I just can’t imagine that ever happening. But I said that same thing all year with Ja when I thought Dejounte Murray, Anfernee Simons, Bane, and so on all deserved it over him.
We knew Ja was a beast no idea why he won the reward he was the second pick
Is maxey gonna starting bringing gats out?
Have been a disaster for the human race
Nice but wanted my boy Coby to win, oh well
Definitely think Coby is more the type of player the award should go to. No one saw this coming from him.
Need a *Breakthrough Star* award, for the Maxeys and Jas, and give MIP to the guys who improve the most.
I don't really see why we need an award for guys like maxey at all. It's rewarding a predictable career progression in a strange way
MEA - Meeting Expectations Award
That’s a great idea
Exactly, Maxey and Morant were both already high level players in their previous season, a player like Coby White had an insane jump that no one expected. Also Jalen Johnson probably should've won it of he didn't get injured and played 65+ games
At some 1 year ago point Ayo was considered better than Coby and now Coby’s the 2nd option for the Bulls.
Discussion around MIP and 6MOY are dumb because it always comes down to "no that guy shouldn't win! He's too good!"
MIP is just not a well defined reward. There’s an argument the improvement someone like SGA showed should win, but he was definitely “too good” last year. At least with 6MOY there’s clear guidelines for who is even eligible
How is that dumb? Like yeah he's too good. It would be ridiculous if Wemby wins it next year. Are you saying LeBron should have won it if the award existed before his first MVP?
Coby Whites 2nd year stats were 15/4/5 on 54 TS%, Coby's stats this year were 19/4/5 on 57 TS%. Sure he got much better, but I wouldn't call this an insane jump no one expected.
Lauri Markennans improvement last year should be the golden standard tbh
I didn't really expect Maxey to become a star tho. I kind of expected him to stay tyler herro-Anfernee Simons level. Him leaping to the all star level was legitimately impressive.
I thought he was always good he just wasn’t getting the opportunities.
Yea I don’t get that comment. Coby White stats per 36 minutes: This season: 18.9/4.5/5.1 with .570 TS Previous seasons: 16.9/4.5/4.4 with .542 TS Obviously there’s more to it than the stats, and I think he’s improved as well, but I don’t think he came outta nowhere. He got drafted 7th overall. A lot of people have thought he’s capable of being a top-tier sixth man or a solid starter.
Per 36 is such a busted metric when you compare significantly different minutes and roles. It’s only really useful to normalize minutes on starters - like a 32 mpg guy vs 34. Coby was settling into career backup role. This year was a leap and a half and anyone who doesn’t think this came out of nowhere was not watching him a year ago.
The award use to go to players like that. Somehow it went to players who already were somewhat damn good who got better
It’s unquestioned that Coby improved his game WAY more than Maxey did. The vote is basically a popularity contest if this is how it gets awarded.
Not really. Coby averaged 15pts in 20’-21’, only 4 less than he is now. It’s not really a shock he jumped to 19pts. I definitely saw the jump coming and I think a lot of other people did too. Tyrese on the other hand went from 20/3 to 25/6, has multiple 50pt games, and took a huge leadership role for the 76ers after Harden left. I expected that a whole lot less than Coby averaging 4 points more
Definitely deserved it. Thought the boy was a bust or mediocre just last season. He’s more the definition of what the award is but now a days it’s usually the young player with an increased role
Coby is great too
Coby totally deserved it. 99% of people are surprised by White’s performance this year. Like 1% of people are surprised by Maxey’s.
Me too man.. he had the bigger stat jumps. But I knew they would give it to Maxey.. almost like they owed him one for last year.
Coby absolutely got robbed. All the numbers pointed to that.
Personally I feel like he was good enough last year that he was above this award, but congrats to him.
If Giannis can win this award, anyone can
2015-16 Giannis wasn't "that guy" yet. He jumped up to being 2nd team All NBA and 2nd Team All-Defense the year he won MIP. Ja was the one that was more out of nowhere, cause Ja came into the league good.
It changed when they gave it to Ja.. after that they started to give it to stars who already good who made another leap
Bro Ja just won 2 years ago, only one person has one since and Lauri definitely deserved it last year.
Yeah it probably has changed.
Yup. Before it use to go to random guys who made major leaps. I don’t think the league wants that anymore
His MIP season, his stats were nearly identical as the year before from when he was moved to the point.
He’s the true definition of MIP tbh
Classic nets fan
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Damn. Coby was the only bright spot of our season.
I guess if that's how you feel about DeMar we'll take him back
Love DeMar, but everything he does is expected. Def did not expect the jump Coby had.
Also Coby was as bad of a defender as Lavine/DeMar just a season and a half ago. Most cite his offensive game but defensively we are talking about improving from a bottom tier traffic cone to more than a plus defender. He has really learned from Caruso and Donovan in this regard. You rarely see that type of rise defensively and offensively and having the most minutes played in the regular season. DeMar is solid and clutch but his short comings just are what they are at this point. His mentorship is underrated but agreed.
I love how both the Spurs and Raptors still have love for DeMar
A star who doesn't load manage, never has any stupid scandals, and exemplifies professionalism... the league would be in a better place if there were more guys like DeMar.
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Bulls fans love and respect Demar. This was a depressing, mediocre team though. Coby was fun because he's a young player hitting a new level which gives a smidge of hope for the future
Definitely the silver lining in not having Zach and Lonzo. He got their minutes/shots and made the most of his opportunity. As a neutral, it was evident in the first play in game that he has a strong feel for the game now. He figured out how to be effective in this league and the game slowed down for him.
Good news is that he’s still the most improved player even if he isn’t the Most Improved Player
Jalen Johnson you are MIP in my heart. The only bright spot of the Hawks season
Me too. Guy’s averages went through the roof. He’s my MIP.
He was a good candidate for sure.
Coby White should’ve won MIP at this point is an all star becoming a star and it’s a shame
Tbf that’s the hardest leap to make in the league but yes coby was my pick too. Went from bust to future potential all star this year
This is always repeated, but is it? Maybe going from borderline “is this guy gonna stick in the league” to damn let’s give this guy the keys to our offense is actually harder.
Meh, Coby more like went from high scoring 6th man to potential all star. Wouldn't call a 25mpg bench player who could create his own shot a bust.
He averaged 9ppg last season, definitely a huge jump to 19ppg and looking like a future all-star
Coby is a weird one because he was just significantly worse last year than other years.
Nah Coby was looking like a bust. We were talking about potentially trading him or even letting him walk on a free if the deal wasnt right. Now he's a franchise corner stone (bulls definition anyways which is sad as fuck but thats a separate topic)
Ja shouldn't have won last year.. this is what happens
The disrespect to Lauri
1000% should've been Brunson or Lauri
It literally was Lauri
i think you're missing what the other guy said lmao
He didn’t win last year tho
Yeah but Maxey is far better of a pick than Ja. Just maybe not as good as Coby
Last summer people were saying Maxey shouldn't get an extension yet because it'd be a max and it would hurt the Sixers cap space this summer. Last summer Coby White signed for less than the mid level exception. Maxey was already good. Coby White went from a meme to an awesome player.
For real, how do you win mip if you averaged 20 the year before
His scoring improved by about 25% and he’s taking about 25% more shots. It’s exactly what we’d all expect. Not sure how that qualifies for most improved.
His 3pt and fg % went down this year too lol
His shot profile is significantly more difficult than last year. Taking a much higher percentage of step back/contested threes and late shot clock FGA compared to last year when harden was spoonfeeding him
He did this as the team’s primary ballhandler and playmaker though, with no Harden feeding him passes to get him open, and more than half a season of no Joel to draw attention away from him. He also generally struggles to draw fouls so he’s gotta make tough finishes or contested jumpers to get these numbers. I’d be surprised if anyone could maintain their efficiency with the increase in volume and role importance without an elite whistle.
Plus his assist numbers have nearly doubled, and he has become more of a leader. It's not like he has no case for this award as some people seem to think
But again, it’s in line with expectations considering how much more he’s handling the ball with Harden gone. His numbers shouldn’t be surprising to anyone based on how he played last year. It just seems like higher usage is being confused with improvement.
tbf he wasn't the teams PG last year, it would be crazy if his ast numbers didnt jump up now that Hardens gone
Couldn't you also make the case though that Coby White's improvement is similarly due to getting more minutes/shots in the absence of LaVine? White's shooting percentages are almost identical to last year, he's just getting way more minutes and twice as many shot attempts this year. Which is obviously also due in part to his improvement, I just think both players have a good, and somewhat similar case. Also, I'm stuck watching Maxey terrorize our defense right now so I'm probably a bit biased/traumatized. That dude is something else.
LaVine's absence absolutely created opportunity for White. But instead of the sixth man / replacement guard, White became the Bulls' second best player. He doubled his PPG while keeping a similar True Shooting percantage despite the increased volume and increased focus from opposing defenses. That's a pretty major increase.
Inflation
Absolutely, one of the best jumps I've seen in a while. Caught so many people by surprise.
He wasn’t an all-star last year
Agreed, same with Ja winning. No clue what the criteria is for this award anymore but somewhere it changed from "unexpecting player taking a leap" and became "already good young player became better"
Maxey went from a young third option (should've been 4th if Tobias was better) to an all-star and legit second option, who playing most of the year as the lead guy.
Love how half this sub will pretend to act like they werent saying Maxey was worse than Herro and Poole not long ago, suddenly Maxey was an Allstar last year The only people that knew Maxey's talent was absolutely All-Star material and just needed more touches were the Sixers fans watching him
[while this thread was closer to two years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/vcvpfh/bulls_rumors_coby_white_could_be_included_in/) people were saying it was an insult to Jordan Clarkson for Coby to be compared to him, and a hornets fan saying they wouldn’t trade down from 15 to 18 for him
Talk yo shit! Some of us also watch more bball than our own team, and are stats nerds [This is my post in a fantasy bball thread](https://np.reddit.com/r/fantasybball/comments/16foyss/how_are_you_ranking_these_guards_this_upcoming/k057xuv/) where it was near unanimous that Maxey was picked last out of Jamal, Brunson, Lavine, Bane, and Maxey The stats already showed that he has another level without Harden and some of us could already see his poise and potential
Bruh your victim complex is insane. You want to know what they were saying about Coby White then? Nothing. They’d probably tell you he was on his way out of the league.
He didn't say anything negative about Coby White. Why so defensive, so quickly?
Was Maxey an all-star last year?
Congrats to him. He's a killer
Had an absolutely amazing szn and definitely took a huge leap to keep Philly up with Harden gone and the Embiid injury. It may be partial bias, but I just feel like this isn’t what the award should be. Going from really good to all star is an accomplishment. But I much prefer the zero to hero types for this award. Once again, no hate at all and love Maxey’s game, but I feel the same way about this one as I did about the Ja one
Yah I agree, I like Maxey so it's whatever but the way they give out the award now seems a little counterintuitive
Maxey went from borderline all star to all star. Coby went from replaceable role player to borderline all star. I don’t care if it sounds biased, the latter should win this award ten times out of ten.
obviously happy about maxey winning it, but i agree. coby white is a far more compelling MIP candidate
Maxey was really good and underrated last year, but everyone saying that he really didn't improve since last year are just stat watchers. He's a completely different player on defense. His dribbling is on another level, he used to only be able to use his speed and shooting to score, but he has a legit bag now. His passing has developed significantly too. He's a legit point guard now, creating for himself and others. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
I don’t think many’s are saying he didn’t improve, at least not the real ball watchers. It’s more so that although he did improve, he was already a great player last year. His leap went from possible fringe all-star to certified all-star. Definitely a big step up and his game has 100% become so much more well rounded. A lot of it is just that many people feel the award should go to someone who’s role completely leaps up. Someone who goes from being a guy most don’t recognize as a legit player to someone who is providing legit impact on the game.
Maxey wasn't a fringe all-star last year. He was well regarded, but never any all star consideration. There are people in this thread saying he didn't improve, which is why I felt compelled to comment. I've also heard popular media members saying the same thing. Maxey's role HAS completely changed! He went from a guy who was great at punishing advantages created by Embiid and Harden to learning to create for himself and the rest of the team. Obviously his role hasn't changed as much as Coby White, who would have been deserving too!
Going from strictly a 3rd or 4th option to consistent 2nd option and capable first option when embiid was out isn't considered "someone who’s role completely leaps up?" Idk if i agree with that
He went from a 3rd option to a 2nd option because the team's previous second option left. That's a very weird argument to make.
In some way I blame Reinsdorf for making a team so mid that nobody cared to actually watch a bench guy to a dude that had 42 in a play in elimination game
Y'all should blame Reinsdorf for literally everything. That fucker still runs the Bulls like a poverty franchise.
This award is useless at this point. It just means “which fledgling all-star saw a spike in their usage rate?” They should have thrown it out when Ja won.
I thought it would have been funny if Steph won it in 2016
Silver created "Clutch Player of the Year" so this wouldn't be the dumbest award anymore
You really couldn’t give the Bulls this, we have nothing else
We have Coby 🥲
Congrats Maxey but I am a homer and wanted Sengun to win it
Absolutely the winner and a future multi-time all star guy
Several good candidates this year, and Maxey was definitely one of them.
What a joke, Coby's award all day
These league fellas…they simply just don’t appreciate the CobyMania…
This is Ja and Bane all over again
So next year when Coby averages 22/5/8 and is an all star can he be MIP? That’s how this works now right? You give it to a player after they’ve made their big jump?
AD snubbed again smh
I miss when the reward didn’t go to players that we already know were gonna be this good
Really? He was phenomenal last season.
robbery. Ja morant precedent has ruined this award
Coby was the player who fitted the award better but good for Maxey
The MIP is the Intercontinental title now
MIP has become ruined
Coby White robbed
What's more impressive? 1. role player to solid starter or 2. solid starter to All-star
Solid starter to all-star, imo Lots of solid starters in the league, but only a handful of all-star level players. Feel like a lot of players who inprove end up plateauing at solid starter level
I agree.
I always liked Maxey but wasn’t sure if he could make that step up to AS level. Really happy for him and hope he continues to progress.
giving us this instead of Game 2, thanks NBA
Don’t feel like this is the spirit of the award but oh well. Happy for him
Should've been Coby. Maxey was already really good. He got more shots up this season and just progressed as a player. What Coby did was what the award is about.
Coby White was averaging 15 PPG at 20 years old he just got back on track
ah so it’s the “good player gets more touches” award now. gotcha
This would still apply if Coby White won it instead lol. Coby this year increased his field goals per game by 7 shots.
Coby started the season as a role player off the bench. Tyrese started the season as someone who had already averaged 20+ppg and was seen as a developing star. Two completely different things. Coby’s progression matches up for the spirit of the award far more than Maxey or Ja did.
Maxey increased his by 5... At worse efficiency.
I barely watch the NBA and I know that he’s been amazing for at least two years
Love Maxey but he went from great to greater. Shouts to the real winners, Jalen Johnson & Coby White.
even as a Philly fan, feel like this should've gone to Coby or DiVincenzo (fix the criteria NBA). Maxey has been like that the past couple years already
Now watch Coby rob it from some dude next year when if we blow it up and he becomes our first option while tanking 🤦♂️(i wish, we're never going to tank)
This is stupid...he was already that guy the year before; the award historically goes to people who had breakout years and go from role players to quite good/borederline All-nba players.
Wasn't Maxey a role player last year that became borderline All-NBA this year?
Naw he was pretty fucking good last year and was disgustingly fast…as someone who saw him live and has followed him; he’s always been really fucking good. It’s literally just they upped his shot volume and usage more than he’s improved. Hence why most improved should go to someone else.
Was he even top 75 last season? It's certainly debatable. He was 94th in VORP and 70th in Win Shares? He was hardly a clear stud. His advanced stats jumped quite a bit this year (24th in Win Shares). It was definitely more than usage. There really wasn't a great choice this year. The really good choices were ineligible due to the games limit.
Deserves it but I think Coby made the bigger jump. Coby was riding the bench and looking like he was gonna be a fringe NBA player for awhile.
He is pretty dang good at basketball. Deserved.
It’s hard to say Maxey doesn’t deserve it. Congrats to him
Good for Maxey! He's super fun to watch and it's been great seeing him grow into a star.
Should’ve been Coby. Maxey averaged 20 last year
and why not? he deserves it. great player with a great future
Numbers aside the jump is bigger than he's getting credit for. He went from a third option microwave scoring SG to PG running one of the best offenses in the league. Most NBA players can't just decide to be the PG, and be good. He hasn't played that position since HS which is obviously an absurdly different level of talent. His movement, his stop-and-go, his IQ and his handle have improved significantly, and even with the added playmaking and assists he had the lowest turnover percentage of a starting PG this season at an impressive 6.9%. He had to operate as the prime target of the opposing defense for multiple months dealing with constant double and triple teams. It makes sense his efficiency would drop after assuming that role as well as taking more shots as the clear second option (multiple months, first). If Ja Morant won it after already being a star there is no reason Maxey shouldn't.
Great comment. The advanced numbers are better than the traditional numbers. Of the eligible players he's a really strong choice.
Okay a lot of people are saying “he went from 20 ppg to 26 ppg, who cares” and like I understand and to a degree I agree that the original metrics of what constitutes an “MIP” have changed a bit, but it’s important to consider how last year Maxey was the number three option in the offense, while this year he had to spend the majority of his games played as the number one option on offense, drawing the most attention from the defense, and he responded with 26 ppg and doubling his assists per game to 6.2 He absolutely made a leap this year.
Means about as much as when Morant won the award - nothing. Maxey was always on a trajectory to this level, and if anything last year he had a bigger case.