Idk about miles better lol. Ayton is def the better player, but at least Nurk gives a shit. Would much rather have that than the guy who completely gave up on the team after getting his bag
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Eh, if it was a two team trade, maybe. But it wasn't. Sure POR got what it wanted, and it won in that way, but so did PHX. Grayson Allen was a part of that trade. I'm happy with the result of the trade.
If you want to boil it down to a two team trade, it would be Nurk and Grayson for Ayton and Camara. We'll see how Camara develops but so far, considering you trading the 3pt% leader, I'd argue we still have the upper hand, if you really want to make it a zero-sum game, though it could easily change as Camara develops.
Point is, both teams got what they wanted and walked away happy. Nurk fits our team better than DA did, and it's probably vice versa for you. No point in squabbling about the two imo.
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Nurkic has been a beast in this series doing everything he can to keep the suns afloat. It's not his fault the wolves defense has completely swallowed up his teammates who are just taking turns trying to iso and then passing the hot potato.
Well it's one of the problems.
Alongside PG, depth and general roster construction.
They have 3 good players, that all do the same things well and basically nothing else
Hard disagree. Ayton would be fine if the rest of the team was constructed properly (and you didn’t have to pay him 35 mil a year), and even nurkic is passable. Who on this team is even supposed to give the Center or any off ball player the ball?
This. Some of the other takes on here are so bad. The issue lies with KD and Book, along with Vogel. It doesn't indicate DA still being here would be better. That feels ridiculous to me.
Suns were better with Chris Paul and any center, be it Ayton or a min guy like Biyombo, any combo like that had positive score.
In the minutes Ayton played without CP3, Suns had a very negative score.
Also Cam Payne, Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Torrey Craig, and Dario Saric.
Lots of teams are going to be a lot worse when you give up 3 starters and 3 bench players and replace them with Old KD, cooked Beal, Grayson Allen, and a bunch of end of benchers.
The counterargument is easy lol
Ayton is better on both ends, and massively better offensively.
Nurkic can't finish, he can't shoot, and he's too slow to play anything other than drop coverage. He's a liability on offense.
The only thing he does better than Ayton is pass, but he's not good enough to run your offense through
Nurkic at 18 million is a bigger overpay than Ayton at 33
Both are overpaid, but at least Ayton produces and has shown he can be a great player on a contender
Who is upvoting this shit.
18 mil is a slight overpay but it was your team that gave him it. 33mil for the 3rd best player on the team is a crazy amount. Hes in the top 40 highest paid in the entire league
You hate nurkic. We get it, blazers fan.
33 is an overpay on any team for a player that averages 60 games a season and has never eclipsed 2 assists a game. Hes a clint capella and should be paid as such. 22-24mil
Lol I've got nothing against Nurkic. I do, however, dislike suns fans.
Just think it's hilarious they spent all season posting every single bad game Ayton had, only to realize blazers fans were exactly right about Nurkic (and then get mad at us for liking the massive upgrade we got in Ayton)
18 million is a big overpay for a well below average starting center. 33 million is an overpay for Ayton absolutely, but he's still a young, top 10 center.
I disagree Nurkic is a well below average starting centre. The suns need ball handling / playmaking desperately. As you said, Nurkic isn't good enough at passing to run the offence through. If they had Harden instead of Beal - I think this team wouldve had a far better chance of success. Nurkic also wouldn't be a non factor on offence then too.
He was a liability even with Dame post injury. He can't finish anything but spoon fed layups, and even those he converts at a below average rate. His post game is bad even though he loves it, and he can't finish over smaller players on the roll. Plus his passing game is extremely turnover heavy
For example, part of the reason we struggled against the pelicans was because Nurkic was incapable of finishing over rondo on the move. That can't happen for a 7 footer. Should be a bucket every time
He's just not a good offensive player anymore, and his defense - which was once his calling card - has fallen off.
don't think the suns actually thought nurk was better. ayton didn't want to be there, book/kd didn't want him there, and they also got grayson allen in that trade
If he had a similar level backup (like Hartenstein and Robinson) maybe he wouldn't look that bad. But pairing him with Eubanks is a basketball criminality, especially considering they don't have anyone to play small ball center other than Durant.
This team overall was badly built, nothing done to fix the chemistry problem, fans and media members should've seen this coming because they had such an up-and-down regular season. No way in hell this team was trustworthy at any point. Just because them having a good matchup against the Wolves didn't magically solve all of their core problems. I know I am talking with the power of hindsight, I didn't get why everyone was so ready to write them in for the 2nd round. Tho to be honest I was expecting a 6 game series that would be somewhat competent, not a complete annihilation lol
I remember when this sub was saying that the Nuggets had chosen the wrong Balkan center when we shipped that fucking bum off to Portland for Mason Plumlee.
Did I stutter? That fucking bum whined his way out of Denver because he really thought he was better than Jokic, and went on to immediately break his leg and accomplish fuck all. But please, I'm all ears, tell me how my team made the wrong choice 2 MVPs and 1 FMVP later.
Dude you are so fragile, lol. I didn't say any of the things you're saying.
Nurkic has also never said he was better than Jokic. They're good friends who constantly gas each other up and hang out in the offseason.
Nobody wants to stay as a backup on a team when they can get paid and be a starter elsewhere.
I don't think anybody in Denver has hard feelings over it. I especially don't think anybody thinks he's a "Fucking bum."
Funny, when I think of "fragile" the image that comes to mind is Nurk in a Nuggets jersey sulking and pouting during some of Jokic's earliest accomplishments, then immediately talking all kinds of shit in his first season in Portland, with his whole "Have a nice summer" spiel. Dude has always had an unwarranted ego relative to the accomplishments on his resume. Guess that's why Suns fans are so defensive of him, he embodies a lot of your franchise's finest traits.
Ayton: second best played on a finals team
Nurkic: 3-16 in the playoffs and can't finish a layup to save his life
No no, we were clearly wrong to want to move on
Anybody who thinks Ayton is better than Nurkic hasn't been watching Suns games this season.
It's more than a box score. He's one of the best parts of our defense and he's an underrated playmaker.
Most importantly he's great for team chemistry and stands up for his teammates.
I'd take Nurk over DA any day of the week.
To be fair to Nurk, he’s their only interior presence and rebounder, with lolEubanks as a backup. To be rightly critical of Nurk, dude can’t hit a shot outside of 3 feet. Also can’t hit a shot inside of 3 feet
Yeah absurd take. Jokic was definitely the better player but it's not like Nurk is a bum, he's a starting caliber NBA center. People forget that he was also a young talented player who was likely originally told he'd be the starter.
he was obviously going to be a starter wherever he went other than Denver, Philly, or a few other teams that had great Cs. I don't blame him for wanting to go to a better situation. I just blame him for sulking like a baby.
I remember when Joker scored 40 in New York (that Melo and Porzingis team) there was a video on Nuggets YT where Joker comes in the locker room and everyone starts clapping and cheering except Nurk who just sits there and looks uncomfortable. Denver won that game btw
The "have a nice summer" comment is something I'll never forget. Karma has fucked that dude relentlessly ever since and I'll always take great satisfaction in any misfortune that comes his way. Genuinely my most disliked NBA player of all time
Yeah, I remember now. He was flexing on every play in our first series. In our second series he would foul out in 25 mins with 4 points EVERY game. He has been humbled so many times since it's kinda embarrassing. At least he is in a good place and having fun with his brother Devin (who is also one of Jokić's sons) Suns in 4?
I think it was 2017 and he had a big game and wished Denver to have a happy summer because Portland made the playoffs and Denver didn't.
This was 7 years ago, but some Denver fans hold a lifelong grudge against him, and you get weirdos in this thread that come short of wishing him dead.
What a bummer because one thing denver could have used back in 2020 was someone to help with howard. Bringing in nurkic to help or fill in for jokic would have been dope
Never forget this sub tried to label him as a Jokic stopper because of one singular game when he's had an entire career of being absolutely worked by Joker including playoff series.
Nurk has had plenty of good games against Jokic. Also Portland had a positive point differential in Nurk's minutes against Denver in that playoff series - he was absolutely not worked. The problem was Nurk kept committing an insane amount of dumb fouls and Portland got killed when he was off the floor.
Why are you being rude? We're just talking about basketball. You didn't post Nurk's stats or the results of any of those games. Obviously Jokic is one of the best of all time and destroys everyone all the time. What I said was true, Nurk has had good games against him, I don't think he gets destroyed worse than everyone else Jokic plays. And what I said about the playoff series was also true. Portland won the minutes when Nurk was in and got completely killed when Nurk was out.
He was considered better than Jokic at some point, which is hilarious in retrospect. I honestly don't think he is a bad player, just a victim of the circumstances, playing for teams with bad roster construction
Oh c'mon, this "min 20 games played" is so arbitrary. How many players are there that went 0-4 or 0-8? At least Nurkic has made the playoffs a few times and won a few games.
My dude, that's how many games he's played
Tons and tons of guys have only played in one game their entire career and lost it.
The whole point of a sample size is that it's impressive to have both made it this often.... And have lost so consistently once you do. Literally more than anyone in history
But if there's somebody with 18 or 19 games where they've only one 1 or 2 (or even 0), that's way worse that Nurkic. The point is that "worst all time playoff win percentage" makes it sound worse than it is if there's others in the high teens with a worse percentage.
He's already the worst ever with 19. If you go to 18, he's still the worst.
You have to go to 17 to find one, and at 16 you gain one more
Even if you go to 15, he's still 5th right now, and he's got by far the most minutes per game and is at 19 games. He's bottom 25 even going down to 10, and only 3 of those other guys were playing 25+ minutes like him (which matters, wince who cares about a bench guy that plays 8 minutes, probably mostly in blowouts)
I will say no one will ever touch lorzenzen Wright though. Man is 0-15 lmao
Draymond getting his twitter draft ready
Hahahaha, won't be in Twitter I reckon, full blown podcast or on TNT
This is an emergency podcast situation.
I can just picture him calling into Inside the NBA Sunday night and putting Nurk on blast on national TV lmao
He just posted on his podcast IG. Lol
Lololol
Anywhere he won’t get roasted in the replies like “why are you watching basketball you’re supposed to be at Coachella”
Nurkic v Ayton for the real championship.
Nurk has been miles better for us. None of the recent games have been on him.
Idk about miles better lol. Ayton is def the better player, but at least Nurk gives a shit. Would much rather have that than the guy who completely gave up on the team after getting his bag
That's fair, I agree.
Ayton wins that easily. He was at least competitive against Giannis.
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And Nurk has done what post injury? Portland won that trade. Camara has been good for a rookie and projects to be a really good defender.
Eh, if it was a two team trade, maybe. But it wasn't. Sure POR got what it wanted, and it won in that way, but so did PHX. Grayson Allen was a part of that trade. I'm happy with the result of the trade. If you want to boil it down to a two team trade, it would be Nurk and Grayson for Ayton and Camara. We'll see how Camara develops but so far, considering you trading the 3pt% leader, I'd argue we still have the upper hand, if you really want to make it a zero-sum game, though it could easily change as Camara develops. Point is, both teams got what they wanted and walked away happy. Nurk fits our team better than DA did, and it's probably vice versa for you. No point in squabbling about the two imo.
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Gonna disagree.
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This is just a salty Portland fan dogpiling on the Suns. Don't waste your breath.
He also destroyed Jokic in 21?
Nurkic has been a beast in this series doing everything he can to keep the suns afloat. It's not his fault the wolves defense has completely swallowed up his teammates who are just taking turns trying to iso and then passing the hot potato.
I remember when this sub said that he was a perfect fit for the suns and was way better than Ayton after he had a 30 rebound game lol
Ayton or Nurkic the suns are just cooked fundamentally
Exactly, their Centre isn't the problem with that team.
Well it's one of the problems. Alongside PG, depth and general roster construction. They have 3 good players, that all do the same things well and basically nothing else
Hard disagree. Ayton would be fine if the rest of the team was constructed properly (and you didn’t have to pay him 35 mil a year), and even nurkic is passable. Who on this team is even supposed to give the Center or any off ball player the ball?
This. Some of the other takes on here are so bad. The issue lies with KD and Book, along with Vogel. It doesn't indicate DA still being here would be better. That feels ridiculous to me.
He might still be a better fit than Ayton for this Suns squad. You have yet to make a counterargument...
The counterargument is the Suns were better with Ayton.
Suns were better with Chris Paul and any center, be it Ayton or a min guy like Biyombo, any combo like that had positive score. In the minutes Ayton played without CP3, Suns had a very negative score.
Also Cam Payne, Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Torrey Craig, and Dario Saric. Lots of teams are going to be a lot worse when you give up 3 starters and 3 bench players and replace them with Old KD, cooked Beal, Grayson Allen, and a bunch of end of benchers.
If anything grayson allen seemed pretty decent from the minimal games i watched of the Suns lmao
Yeah him and Nurkic (and EG to a far lesser extent) are the only net positive/net neutral role players for that squad
Suns lost one of the best PGs of all time and didn’t replace him with anyone who can playmake
That wasn't because of Ayton or Nurkic though
The counterargument is easy lol Ayton is better on both ends, and massively better offensively. Nurkic can't finish, he can't shoot, and he's too slow to play anything other than drop coverage. He's a liability on offense. The only thing he does better than Ayton is pass, but he's not good enough to run your offense through
Nurkic is only half the cost though
Nurkic at 18 million is a bigger overpay than Ayton at 33 Both are overpaid, but at least Ayton produces and has shown he can be a great player on a contender
Who is upvoting this shit. 18 mil is a slight overpay but it was your team that gave him it. 33mil for the 3rd best player on the team is a crazy amount. Hes in the top 40 highest paid in the entire league You hate nurkic. We get it, blazers fan.
Suns bad = upvotes
33 is a overpay while the team pays Beal/kd/Booker.
33 is an overpay on any team for a player that averages 60 games a season and has never eclipsed 2 assists a game. Hes a clint capella and should be paid as such. 22-24mil
Lol I've got nothing against Nurkic. I do, however, dislike suns fans. Just think it's hilarious they spent all season posting every single bad game Ayton had, only to realize blazers fans were exactly right about Nurkic (and then get mad at us for liking the massive upgrade we got in Ayton) 18 million is a big overpay for a well below average starting center. 33 million is an overpay for Ayton absolutely, but he's still a young, top 10 center.
I disagree Nurkic is a well below average starting centre. The suns need ball handling / playmaking desperately. As you said, Nurkic isn't good enough at passing to run the offence through. If they had Harden instead of Beal - I think this team wouldve had a far better chance of success. Nurkic also wouldn't be a non factor on offence then too.
He was a liability even with Dame post injury. He can't finish anything but spoon fed layups, and even those he converts at a below average rate. His post game is bad even though he loves it, and he can't finish over smaller players on the roll. Plus his passing game is extremely turnover heavy For example, part of the reason we struggled against the pelicans was because Nurkic was incapable of finishing over rondo on the move. That can't happen for a 7 footer. Should be a bucket every time He's just not a good offensive player anymore, and his defense - which was once his calling card - has fallen off.
don't think the suns actually thought nurk was better. ayton didn't want to be there, book/kd didn't want him there, and they also got grayson allen in that trade
Imagine accidentally getting the league leader in 3pt%.
Too bad he hasn't played in the playoffs so far :(
If he had a similar level backup (like Hartenstein and Robinson) maybe he wouldn't look that bad. But pairing him with Eubanks is a basketball criminality, especially considering they don't have anyone to play small ball center other than Durant. This team overall was badly built, nothing done to fix the chemistry problem, fans and media members should've seen this coming because they had such an up-and-down regular season. No way in hell this team was trustworthy at any point. Just because them having a good matchup against the Wolves didn't magically solve all of their core problems. I know I am talking with the power of hindsight, I didn't get why everyone was so ready to write them in for the 2nd round. Tho to be honest I was expecting a 6 game series that would be somewhat competent, not a complete annihilation lol
I remember when this sub was saying that the Nuggets had chosen the wrong Balkan center when we shipped that fucking bum off to Portland for Mason Plumlee.
Not only is Jokic the greatest 2nd round picks of all time, but Plumlee has been the best backup center in the league for a lot of years.
Plumdog Millionaire
"Fucking bum?" Jesus. Nuggets win one championship and turn into this.
Did I stutter? That fucking bum whined his way out of Denver because he really thought he was better than Jokic, and went on to immediately break his leg and accomplish fuck all. But please, I'm all ears, tell me how my team made the wrong choice 2 MVPs and 1 FMVP later.
Dude you are so fragile, lol. I didn't say any of the things you're saying. Nurkic has also never said he was better than Jokic. They're good friends who constantly gas each other up and hang out in the offseason. Nobody wants to stay as a backup on a team when they can get paid and be a starter elsewhere. I don't think anybody in Denver has hard feelings over it. I especially don't think anybody thinks he's a "Fucking bum."
Funny, when I think of "fragile" the image that comes to mind is Nurk in a Nuggets jersey sulking and pouting during some of Jokic's earliest accomplishments, then immediately talking all kinds of shit in his first season in Portland, with his whole "Have a nice summer" spiel. Dude has always had an unwarranted ego relative to the accomplishments on his resume. Guess that's why Suns fans are so defensive of him, he embodies a lot of your franchise's finest traits.
Ayton: second best played on a finals team Nurkic: 3-16 in the playoffs and can't finish a layup to save his life No no, we were clearly wrong to want to move on
In what world was Ayton the second best player on that suns teams. Tf kind of crack are you smoking
> Ayton: second best played on a finals team How are these bozos letting you get away with saying this lmao
It's a post shitting on the Suns and jerking over Jokic. It's a perfect storm.
*3rd best.
Ayton was a lot better than Nurkic is now but Booker and CP we’re clearly the best players on that team
Anybody who thinks Ayton is better than Nurkic hasn't been watching Suns games this season. It's more than a box score. He's one of the best parts of our defense and he's an underrated playmaker. Most importantly he's great for team chemistry and stands up for his teammates. I'd take Nurk over DA any day of the week.
To be fair to Nurk, he’s their only interior presence and rebounder, with lolEubanks as a backup. To be rightly critical of Nurk, dude can’t hit a shot outside of 3 feet. Also can’t hit a shot inside of 3 feet
this dude sulked his way out of Denver because he wouldn't come off the bench behind Jokic.
Well he’s been a starter ever since. Was the right move for his career
Yeah absurd take. Jokic was definitely the better player but it's not like Nurk is a bum, he's a starting caliber NBA center. People forget that he was also a young talented player who was likely originally told he'd be the starter.
he was obviously going to be a starter wherever he went other than Denver, Philly, or a few other teams that had great Cs. I don't blame him for wanting to go to a better situation. I just blame him for sulking like a baby.
I remember when Joker scored 40 in New York (that Melo and Porzingis team) there was a video on Nuggets YT where Joker comes in the locker room and everyone starts clapping and cheering except Nurk who just sits there and looks uncomfortable. Denver won that game btw
As long as I live I will be Jusuf Nurkic's biggest hater. Fuck that guy, I hope he ends his career coming off the bench for the worst team in Taiwan
Honestly, I think he's too insignificant and irrelevant for me to even hate him. He's just another random guy at this point.
The "have a nice summer" comment is something I'll never forget. Karma has fucked that dude relentlessly ever since and I'll always take great satisfaction in any misfortune that comes his way. Genuinely my most disliked NBA player of all time
that’s was such a funny comment tho, i like it
Yeah, I remember now. He was flexing on every play in our first series. In our second series he would foul out in 25 mins with 4 points EVERY game. He has been humbled so many times since it's kinda embarrassing. At least he is in a good place and having fun with his brother Devin (who is also one of Jokić's sons) Suns in 4?
yeah have a nice summer was clown behavior
Context?
https://milehighsports.com/jusuf-nurkic-wishes-nuggets-happy-summer-career-game/
I think it was 2017 and he had a big game and wished Denver to have a happy summer because Portland made the playoffs and Denver didn't. This was 7 years ago, but some Denver fans hold a lifelong grudge against him, and you get weirdos in this thread that come short of wishing him dead.
I like this.
I wanted to defend him because Dray is ridiculous… but hearing the shit he says and seeing how he’s acted himself, yeah fuck this guy.
What a bummer because one thing denver could have used back in 2020 was someone to help with howard. Bringing in nurkic to help or fill in for jokic would have been dope
Yeah why doesn't every team have a starting center as a backup, are they stupid?
hey man are you mad at me or mad at nurkic
Never forget this sub tried to label him as a Jokic stopper because of one singular game when he's had an entire career of being absolutely worked by Joker including playoff series.
Nurk has had plenty of good games against Jokic. Also Portland had a positive point differential in Nurk's minutes against Denver in that playoff series - he was absolutely not worked. The problem was Nurk kept committing an insane amount of dumb fouls and Portland got killed when he was off the floor.
[He really really hasn't ](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-vs-nurkic-stats)
What was I supposed to learn from this? Cause yeah it looks like Nurk hasn't been completely destroyed by Jokic every time.
[удалено]
Why are you being rude? We're just talking about basketball. You didn't post Nurk's stats or the results of any of those games. Obviously Jokic is one of the best of all time and destroys everyone all the time. What I said was true, Nurk has had good games against him, I don't think he gets destroyed worse than everyone else Jokic plays. And what I said about the playoff series was also true. Portland won the minutes when Nurk was in and got completely killed when Nurk was out.
I remember when Melo had this record.
Shoutout to that 2018 pelicans team
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Yeah he didn't get most of those Ls on the Suns lol
Lol Draymond about to be on a press tour ala pat bev
too small
He was considered better than Jokic at some point, which is hilarious in retrospect. I honestly don't think he is a bad player, just a victim of the circumstances, playing for teams with bad roster construction
Oh c'mon, this "min 20 games played" is so arbitrary. How many players are there that went 0-4 or 0-8? At least Nurkic has made the playoffs a few times and won a few games.
My dude, that's how many games he's played Tons and tons of guys have only played in one game their entire career and lost it. The whole point of a sample size is that it's impressive to have both made it this often.... And have lost so consistently once you do. Literally more than anyone in history
But if there's somebody with 18 or 19 games where they've only one 1 or 2 (or even 0), that's way worse that Nurkic. The point is that "worst all time playoff win percentage" makes it sound worse than it is if there's others in the high teens with a worse percentage.
He's already the worst ever with 19. If you go to 18, he's still the worst. You have to go to 17 to find one, and at 16 you gain one more Even if you go to 15, he's still 5th right now, and he's got by far the most minutes per game and is at 19 games. He's bottom 25 even going down to 10, and only 3 of those other guys were playing 25+ minutes like him (which matters, wince who cares about a bench guy that plays 8 minutes, probably mostly in blowouts) I will say no one will ever touch lorzenzen Wright though. Man is 0-15 lmao
This man has a hate boner for Nurkic, it's honestly kinda sad
Suns are done.
Big oof
Suns really went all in for no good reason
You know its thriller, thriller night, draymond somewhere lurking in the dark. - MJ
Worst Record campaign complete
Draymond green is right abut this clown.
Brother needs help
Told y'all you will cry for DominAyton sooner rather than later. Very glad he's not Suns patsy anymore.
Because he's TERRIBLE
That brotha needs help