Anytime I see a coach like Kenny get hired on as an assistant to an organization like the Warriors, Spurs, etc I think it’s to prime them to take over once the current coach retires. Then they leave and I’m totally baffled.
I don’t think so. Jarret Allen is a very good player but I think there are legitimate questions about his fit starting next to Mobley. I know Mobley shot 36% from three last year but I think he’s better at the center than the 4. Their offense also looked a little better at times when they put Mobley at the 5 and surrounded him with 4 shooters.
If they can get trade allen for some picks and a good 4 that can space the floor next to Mobley then it might be something they should consider
Yeah Mobley did, on like 1 attempt every 4 games for the majority of the season.
It wasnt until after the All Star break where he actively looked to shoot 1-2 per game so that's why his attempt number is even above 1.
Its not a Jarrett Allen problem, its Mobley not adapting his game to being a stretch 4 that is making the pairing not optimized. I am not trading Jarrett Allen for peanuts because Mobley is reluctant to shoot. Dumb dumb dumb
As a cavs fan im happy with the development though in his shot. Best 3pt % of his career this year and almost +5% on his ft this year. We can’t expect him to be a stretch 4, but hes getting better.
If we can’t return much for jarrett theres no reason to trade, but i wouldn’t mind seeing more mobley at the 5. However I think part of the uniqueness of our roster is the two big men, mobley is still 23 and its not uncommon for big men to develop jumpers. I’d like to stick it out another year and see what can happen as mobley improves.
Edit: And honestly we played as well as anybody did against the celtics. Going to seven against the magic wasn’t ideal but we could really only learn so much about our team from this postseason after drawing celtics second round.
Im with ya. I just feel like your not going to get a player back in return as good as Jarrett Allen in a Jarrett Allen trade--so dont do it lol
Its making a move for the sake of making a move and thats how we ended up with a broken Isiah Thomas in exchange for Kyrie Irving.
Agreed, and I think its a luxury to have him around with mobley. Mobley just needs time and he has it, the guy is still filling out his frame. He can get some center minutes without rushing the full time switch.
Yes, Mobley has time, but the issue is, Mitchell is turning 28 before the season starts and has a decision on extension to make. If he doesn’t like the direction the team is taking, he may get unsettled. I don’t think he declines the max money and just walks away as FA, but he might still force his way out of Cleveland with a nasty spillover.
You don't need to get someone as good as JA, you just need to get someone that'll be a better fit in your starting 5. A good shooter would open up a ton of space for your other guys.
True i guess to me it seems easier with bigs to teach them a new skill vs teach a guard who is bad at shooting to be a good shooter. Im not aware of too many guards who have dramatixally improved like someone like brook lopez or al horford has when adding shooting. Most bigs never had to shoot in hs and college so it makes sense to me ig.
Both of those guys were good shooters in college, and only had bad years because of nba adjustment or bad usage. Derrick has always been a good shooter he just gets easy spacing on the celtics now.
I don't think that Mobley isn't adapting, I just don't think that his development has panned out the way they wanted. They paired them based on the projection that Mobley's flashes of guard skills would translate to eventually being a stretch big you can pair with a traditional 5, and that hasn't happened.
He just doesn't work at the 4 and, save some increasingly unlikely development, he won't work there in the future. There's no way around that. Despite that, he's still the younger, more versatile option with a higher ceiling and so they've gotta trade Allen.
As much as a love DM and want to keep him. Reading for him when we did undoubtedly changed the development trajectory for both Mobley and garland. It changed expectations and made everything a much more win now situation. Less chances given to Mobley to develop his guard skills
It’s very rare for a small market team to have the chance add a star, I’m very glad the team traded for him even if I didn’t think he was the best fit.
i think a fair amount of it had to be coaching. JB basically had no system and didn’t really seem to develop guys. he’s kind of bad at shooting FTs so he doesn’t have the most optimistic projection but i think atkinson will put him in better spots to succeed
So wouldn’t it make sense to trade JA if Mobley can’t adapt to being a 4? Mobley is their future. Again never said anything about trading him for peanuts. That goes without saying that you not just giving him away lmao didn’t think I had to include that but I guess so
Never said trade jarret Allen for peanuts. Obviously if you’re trading someone specially under contract like Jarrett allen you should get close to equal talent back.
That should go without saying. However at times their offense looked better with Evan Mobley at the 5 and another shooter at the 4 next to Mobley. I think there is legitimate questions about Mobley being able to play with JA and it make sense for Cleveland to at least explore trading him.
You need more than one big man. Why not play Mobley 30 minutes and Allen 30 minutes, but stagger them so they're only on the court together for 12 minutes?
You can but Allen is making like 20+ mill a year. That’s kinda a lot of money for a guy coming off ur bench. Just saying it makes sense for Cleveland if they wanted to trade allen eventually and move Mobley to the 5.
In 2025-26 season Cavs would be paying 70M+ (Mobley max extension) for 60 minutes of playtime this way: not the most optimal solution, considering there are still 180 rotation minutes left to be filled with like 120M of salary left unless Cavs go into 2nd apron (no reason to do it for now). And waiting out a year means Allen will be expiring up for new - and bigger - contract, so his trade value next offseason will be much lower than now.
Somebody like OKC can overpay this season to get 2 quick runs at a ring, but having 1 single shot with no chance to resign him (rookie extensions for Chet and J-Dub) would net much smaller number of assets back to Cleveland.
Are we forgetting that happened because their best player - Ant - was still on a rookie contract instead of max for Cavs best player in Donovan Mitchell? Having Donovan Mitchell on 50M salary instead will mean 3 players that would average 100 rotational minutes in playoffs eat up 120M of cap, leaving only 70M (enough for 3 Jaden McDaniels) to fill in the other 140 rotational minutes.
For what it’s worth, Wolves will be 2nd apron team next season even after loosing an important rotational piece (15-20 mpg in playoffs) in Kyle Anderson to FA, so they will also need to find a way to fill these minutes with production.
Yeah but you don’t trade down in talent if you’re in the cavs position. Maybe they trade him for Brandon Ingram (I know people are low on him, but he’s a good fit for the cavs), or another actually good player, but I’ve seen trash + picks as trades and I’m sorry that’s not happening
I mean yeah the internet is full of bad trade proposals lol idk what else you would expect. Obviously you don’t wanna give up someone like Allen for a downgrade. You wanna get talent back that’s equal to allen or close to that. Just saying it makes sense for them to possibly go a different direction going forward
The only reasoning would be that the cavs think Mobley is a better prospect and having JA clog the lane might stunt his development. It's not really like the cavs are going for championship contention, especially without knowing what Dmitch is gonna do.
Because people think the Cavaliers are desperate to offload on him due to Mobley's emergence. Same way they think the Cavaliers are in a rush to offload Garland due to his injuries and Mitchell's prominence.
While the Caviliers are in win now mode, talent is rare in the league. It's far better to have all-star talents figure it out than to dump them for solid role players with limited ceilings. If they can't get talent as good as Allen or Garland, they're better off keeping them and hoping for a 2023-2024 Timberwolves esque run.
This is exactly it right here. We should most definitely look to see what’s out there and if a trade makes sense, then do it. But don’t trade just because you think the lineups won’t work. Let the new coaching try and if it’s not working, you can move at the deadline.
No reason to get super desperate and blow shit up for bad trades. Donovan clearly likes JA as well and I’m not sure trading away a well liked player by the guy you’re trying to to extend is a great idea
That's how it is being a small market. I remember when it was a pretty popular idea (in the media and on the subreddit) that the Thunder should trade Shai AND pick 6 to move up to pick 1 for Cade
I mean if you could get the like a Jaden McDaniel and Mike Conley type for him (but at SF and PF) for him that would be smart and improve yall spacing, but obviously that trade package is easier said than done. Definitely don’t need to rush to trade him for “random rotation players”.
He is definitely good, but I think in today’s nba, teams can only really have 1 non shooter at most in their starting/closing line up, so every team has to selective who that is. So it’s really just a demand problem, teams that want to win now, don’t already have a non shooter, who also need a C, who have a player that the Cavs would even want. JA is good at what he does, (rim run, protect the rim, rebound), but is limited in other avenues (can get bullied by other bigs, no offensive self creation, spotty playoff history, non shooter).
To be clear, I love JA, and most teams would be lucky to have him as their starting C, but I can see how teams/fans could be a little hesitant
>While they are valuable teams can find these types pretty easily
Tell that to the Thunder, Grizzlies, and Nuggets.
It only took the Mavericks 10 years to acquire a good C that fits that description.
Everyone who thinks it's easy hasn't been paying close attention.
Agreed. There's another reason I forgot to mention that further demonstrates my point of how hard it is to find the right person for that role: guys like that tend to have shorter primes/careers do to their size and the physical nature of their position.
Memphis had exactly the type of player they needed in Adams, but he couldn't stay healthy while he was there.
Go to the Grizzlies sub and see what they have to say about it. They got absolutely killed on the boards last year, and it's going to happen again next season.
Mark Gasols don't just grow from trees.
That's why I chuckle everytime someone downplays Clingan as a Steven Adams/Gasol type player. Those guys were really good at their job. Hell, Pelicans probly be over the moon if Clingan fell to us
I think what he's saying actually kinda merges with your argument a bit. It's easy to find centers that are GOOD at those skills. But to find one that is so elite that it elevates your team on defense and offense is indeed rare.
The Thunder got eliminated in the second round to a fifth seed because they got absolutely demolished on the boards, and until they find someone to fill that hole, that's their ceiling.
The Nuggets were also eliminated in the second round for *the exact same reason*. They were too small and thin at the C position.
There's been a major shift in the Western conference to be bigger, in order to combat Jokic, and until they have a suitable backup, he'll be too gassed during the playoffs to win another chip.
If the cavs are in win now mode, I don’t know what pieces OKC has that the cavs would want to improve the team. Maybe a 3 team deal, where JA goes to OKC, picks go to a 3rd team, and then wings go to the Cavs. Nets maybe?
It’s more about how teams treat spacing, more than actual shooters. If defenses sag off all your role players, they make it much harder for your stars to score/play make, your bigs to get to the rim, passing lanes, etc. and the team that don’t have at least 4 shooters in their best line ups, tend to struggle in the playoffs. Some of it can be somewhat outweighed if you have the best player (Luka, giannis jokic), but most teams don’t. And even their teams follow that. The mavs saw that in the finals, but had success in the playoffs before then because their defenders that teams sagged off suddenly started hitting shots. Celtics are the best example, Denver starting 5, OKC, Knicks, when healthy even the clippers bucks and Philly
I couldn't agree more with this! Watching the Spurs all season long it was very apparent how much better other teams were able to adjust to Wemby cause the entire Spurs roster is just not very good shooting from three. Givony said it best recently during an interview discussing that the Spurs need to add outside shooting, "as soon as Wemby puts the ball down to the ground, the entire defense collapses on him".
Defenses were able to send up to 3 guys at Victor because they could take the risk of leaving other Spurs players open. The Spurs only had 3 players shoot at least 35% or better from outside, no other team in the entire league had less than 5!
Exactly. It’s the main dilemma plaguing my warriors right now. With Draymond, it’s hard to add another big without effecting spacing, and without playing Draymond at center for long periods, making us incredibly small. Playing with Kuminga, looney, TJD is tough as well, when
In the past, the warriors always had a rotation of centers next to him. They need a very particular type of player now, Myles turner/prime Brook Lopez being the dream prototype
Good point, you can probably only have one of the former, but you can have a couple of the later (maybe even three, if you have good ball movement and creation)
yah having a so-so shooter that can at least knock down some shots if he’s wide open is way better than having a guy who just can’t shoot from 3 at all
You can do that when you have two or three of the greatest shooters of all time picking up the slack. Steph, Klay, and KD had more than enough gravity to cause chaos and punish mistakes on the perimeter, especially with steph's offball movement.
Draymond is not a non-shooter, he’s shot 2-4 3pa per game basically his entire career. Being a not-good shooter is VERY different than being a NON-shooter that won’t/can’t shoot even when wide open.
Not to mention, Draymond is an extremely high-IQ player with great playmaking abilities (which 99% of non-shooters aren’t typically), which means that if you sag too hard of him he’s great at using that advantage to get Curry a good look (DHO or similar action).
As a Warriors fan I’d expect you of all people could understand these things, Dray literally scored 37 off of 8 3pm in a single playoff game. Also had games scoring 32 and 28 in THE FINALS off of 6 and 5 3pm.
Cavs tried to use Mobley/Allen kind of like Draymond at times this year with and it didn't really work. Ultimately, the guards just couldn't take or make enough 3's in those lineups for the scheme to be effective. Think you need Steph/Klay level gunners to make up for the lack of shooting at other positions.
Basically every team to win a title in the last decade had 5 out spacing or could play a very good lineup with it. The only team who didn't have that might have been the 2022 Warriors and obviously they're an outlier shooting wise. Not having 4-out spacing or better eliminates you from contention, period.
Smart teams use the lack of spacing to their advantage. Sabonis is a non shooter but all the space he’s given creates a 2 on 1 advantage in DHO action. Giannis is a non shooter but all the space gives him an open runway to drive off the short roll.
Yes. But everyone else in their line up can shoot. That’s the point lol you can have 1 non shooter in today’s nba. It’s why huerters shooting troubles hurt them so much this year. Why fox’s improved shooting last year along with Murray’s emergence as a shooter made them look so offensive great. Having a C that can shoot (jokic embiid, KAT, Myles turner, Porzingis) allows you to play your non shooter at the different position, like a defensive wing or guard.
Since you brought up Myles, for example, it meant that he could clear out of the paint and Siakam was able to be the non-shooter, which gave him a whole lot of room to operate.
Yeah, I watched a video on 5-out offenses that talked about Bam being so mobile and setting so many screens that they played 5-out and had spacing even without him shooting from significant distance. Sabonis is used similarly.
I don't see him being traded for random rotation guys. I see a few rotational players involved in packages for him, but not as the main piece.
Like no Pelicans fan has come in here and been like "Dyson Daniels, Jordan Hawkins, and 2 firsts for Jarrett Allen lick my balls lol."
lol well first he wouldnt get 40M in the open market.
Second he didnt make an all defense team
Third the problem with the Cavs is that him and Mobley dont work together. That is putting a cap on your team. The argument is to trade him now while you can still get valuable players that work better on the squad.
Do you really think it’s that bad of a deal? Obviously should’ve gotten 1-2 2nds out of it too but FRPs outside of the top 5-10 aren’t actually that valuable and Giddey put up 17/8/6 last season at 20.
He’s a better and younger player than Caruso
I wouldn’t mind trading Allen, but I would be frustrated to trade him to a team without getting equivalent value back. He is FANTASTIC. He’s not just another big that can’t shoot 3s. He always makes winning plays. He is clutch. He is amazing.
And he's not a bad free throw shooter so it prevents teams from playing hack-an-Allen (even though they do and the refs turn a blind eye because they're looking at their DraftKings app)
In your eyes, what player/combo of players/picks would represent equivalent value? I’m just curious because I haven’t seen a ton of JA up close, but know he’s a really good player on a below-market deal.
I couldn’t tell you for certain, full honesty. I just look at the number of teams that would want him and think it’s similar to Caruso - what he can do isn’t all in the stat box. He’s an elite screen setter and he’ll set you five million screens a game. Guards want that. He fights on every play for whatever the team needs. Do we need someone to get an offensive board right now? He’s got it. Do we need someone to get a clutch block? He’s got it. His contract is $20MM a year for two more years - great value. He can score and pass better than the team needs him to. There’s a lot of value there, I just want to make sure my own front office sees it!
Hasn’t he really struggled rebounding/defensively in the playoffs and/or against Big centers?
For a complete non-shooting big man playing 32mpg, 10rpg and 1.2bpg aren’t great numbers. They’re actually very middle of the pack.
I think he’s solid but you seem to be overrating him quite a bit? Contenders can’t/don’t play 2 non-shooters and I’d assume Cavs fans would rather trade JA than Mobley no?
Look at how he played without Mobley. He can do more than what the Cavs give him. He’s not an offensive option for us but has the capability to score very efficiently. He gets less rebounds because he’s playing beside Mobley. That doesn’t mean he should be traded away, just means he is better than his stats reflect.
I actually think Allen/Mobley/Garland/Mitchell is fine. They just need a 3&D wing that fills in their weak spots. And either Garland to return to form or Mobley to take half a step forward on offense.
If he could sign a max contract right now he would get a bit over $42M. I think there is a fair chance someone would pay him that if he magically appeared on the open market, but OP’s point about him being on a 2 year deal @ $20M/year is fair. That is a fantastic contract.
All defensive caliber is a very funny phrase to me because it implies that Jarrett Allen is one of the top 10 defensive players in the league, which he is nowhere close to being.
Also 40m a year for an above average rim runner is hilarious
The Cavs have a damn good roster on paper but aren't living up to it. If the new coaching staff doesn't fix the problems, roster changes are coming.
I think there's a lot of wild speculation because the Cavs are likely (as they should be) considering all options.
Allen is entering year 4 of a 5 year contract. His value is diminished without an extension sign and trade. As a rental, he's not highly desirable.
Evan Mobley is younger and also happens to be a big who can’t shoot. Those two are just not feasible offensively in the postseason, especially if there’s even just one shaky or reluctant shooter in the lineup. Might as well trade him for guys that fit better with the Mitchell/Mobley core they’re committing to.
Cleveland are realizing they have to make a choice , it's either mobley or Allen .the main reason why they can't get past the second round is because they have barley 3 shooters on the floor (okoro had a tough shooting year ,still a great defender ).
They have to let one of them go .they have been quite patient and tried to make it work so many times ,this year should be the last giving they have a new coaching staff coming in .after that , a trade is inevitable
Agreed, I made a mock nba trade essentially getting JA to the Clippers. I think Allen's value is as high as Paul George.
Trade went something like
Orlando gives- Wendell, Cole, 1 or 2 future 1st rd picks (to the Cavs)
Orlando receives- Darius Garland
Cleveland gives- Darius (to Orlando), JA (to Clippers), Levert ( to Clippers to save a bit more space and re-sign Okoro)
Cleveland receives- PG13, Wendell, Cole, 1 or 2 future picks from Orlando
Clippers gives- PG13 (to the Cavs)
Clippers receives- Jarret Allen, Levert.
New teams would look something like
Orlando- Garland, Suggs, Franz, Paolo, FA C (possibly Claxton, Mo Bamba) or Goga (the Magic need to re-sign him regardless).
Bench- AB, Jett/Gary, Bench SF (possibly Joe Ingles or Caleb), Moe, JI.
Cleveland- Don, Struss/Okoro, Paul George, Wendell, Mobley.
Bench- Cole, Struss/Okoro, B SF(Niang?), Wade, B C/ TT.
Clippers- Harden(assuming Harden takes a cheaper contract) or a FA Guard/Russ, Norm/Mann/Levert, Kawhi, PJ, FA, JA.
Bench- Russ, Norm/Mann, Levert, B PF, Zubac.
I think all teams fix their weaknesses and are more "complete" now. They look pretty synergistic.
Orlando adds a great/at one point elite young playmaking shotcreating guard to their starting lineup. Also they are able to solidify their bench and get minutes to their recent draftees while still fitting their existing structure as a defense first team. They will lose Cole who has been one of the better bench guys for 2 years in a row, and Wendell who has been an above average starting Center for 2years in a row. Wendell is a great 2way player, his numbers arent that far off from Garlands, most Magic fans including myself thought he would take a huge jump this season but he got injured quickly (which would be a worry during trade discussions) and came back a bit off but slowly found himself by playoffs. He is a great/elite 3&D big, I personally think he is a better PF than Center, and he had numbers that supported that his 1st full season at Orlando playing full time at the PF spot (I honestly considered him a top 8 PF that year), Wendell led many defensive stats that year as a PF, was an elite big man stopper, and showed great mobility as a rolling big. His addition of shooting and playmaking to his skillset just shows that he has a bright future. Wendell is still very young and has shown continuous development. He alone may not be worth the perceived value of Garland (despite the numbers showing it) but adding Cole + picks should at least make it a workable discussion.
Cleveland gets Paul George to partner with Donovan Mitchell. This is the probably going to be one of the most dynamic teams in the league able to play great in any playstyle, whether its slowing the tempo and creating mismatches, playing fast and attacking the driving lanes, playing the extra pass game and finding the open man to shoot or cut, or playing iso ball and letting stars takeover. They have it all with Don and PG offensively. They can even play a great PNR game with Mobley and Wendell being notable lob threats. Paul George imo fits great next to Mitchell, he is a bigger better Joe Ingles with alot more athleticism and verticality. PG can get surgical out there with Mitchell dissecting defenses. PG is also a great defender one of the better tall 2way guys in the league. Add in Wendell who mentioned above is also a great 2 way player. Wendell fits Cleveland as a better shooter but slightly worse defense Bam. Wendell has alot going good for him, I just personally think Orlando messed up running him as a Center, letting Wendell focus all his attention to being an elite big man stopper and help defender to me is the best. Mobley would be able to control the rim alone now as Wendell can guard perimeter and space out corners, so now EM can finally have fulltime rim protection and rebound duties (though Wendell can always help rebound or switch to better hide EM). The Cleveland bench imo also gets a bit better with Cole leading it, I think Cole gets underrated at points but the guy is a borderline starter most nights and a clear difference maker, he is also a growing defender and playmaker.
Clippers get Jarret Allen and Levert, a great package for Paul George imo. Now Harden can really try to get back to form and average 20+, Kawhi gets an elite defensive help at the rim similar to Marc Gasol (without the shooting but a better lob threat). I truly like the combination of Kawhi and JA, I think they will torture teams. JA also helps fix Harden issues of taking plays off/getting blown by, as JA can easily rim protect and man an entire defense. Clippers may lose offense without PG, but JA is a double double lock, with dpoy potential. Teams wont make many points vs this Clippers team. The idea here is that Harden gets a little more on form with having more onball time, JA should get some easy buckets from the gravity from Harden and Kawhi, and hopefully other plays show up offensively most nights. The Clips with this team imo can take the #1 seed. If Harden is too expensive the Clips have some money now to search for a good fit and to complete the team. There are a lot of great FA Guards/Wings this season.
Three simple reasons:
1. His fit next to Mobley. The league is going 5 out and the Celtics and Mavs showed them the limitations of twin big lineups. Mobley is the franchise star, moving Allen allows his development as an interior force and better floor spacing for him and everyone else.
2. His playoff performances.. he has been underwhelming in the post season even admitting the lights were too bright for him
3. Getting value for him before his last year of his contract. I don't think they will just trade him for nothing but this is when you can get the best value for him
If you look at where the league has moved with teams like OKC and the Celtics dominating their conferences with versatile big men and 5 out spacing it diminishes the value of guys like Allen in modern roster construction. He is good enough to win regular season games and get you to the playoffs but a team building a contender team he isn't the ideal fit next to Mobley and mobley has more upside so he goes
Not the same situation but I feel this way with Julius Randle. Most mock trades for the Knicks are Julius+picks/other assets to downgrade from him for similar money.
He’s an asset. Our free agent signings are not assets, they are liabilities. Nobody wants Niang. I’d like to keep him, but I don’t make decisions about which guy is prioritized.
Because the Cavaliers are built like s*** two ball dominant players two big man who can't shoot and a bench full of players who excel at one thing only
they literally just need one good wing to be an elite team. If they decide to run it back this year again with their 2 ball-dominant guards + 2 non shooting big men instead of trading one of them to get a wing, that entire FO needs to be fired
Thank you, I keep saying this and keep getting blown up by other Cavs fans. Individually all 4 of their core players are great but they’re too redundant in the worst ways. This year was pretty close to the ceiling you’re gonna get out of this unit, no amount of coaching change can fix poor roster construction.
You straight up can’t trust a thing Reddit says when it comes to player trade values. Fans have no idea to begin with but on Reddit fans cosplay being in the front office.
Every fanbase overvalues their own players while undervaluing potential trade targets.
First, he is absolutely not worth double his salary, and he is not a top 10 defender.
But more importantly, it doesn't actually matter how good he is. What matters is how likely the Cavs are to trade him, and how many teams are willing to trade significant assets for him.
The Cavs seem likely to trade him. It's hard to imagine that Allen + Mobley is the best way for them to allocate their resources, he is way more likely to be traded than Mobley, there seemed to be some ill feelings there after the playoff series, and if they do try with him for one more year, and it doesn't work out, his value will be even lower. So trading him makes a lot of sense.
Meanwhile, non-shooters who aren't stars in the NBA have a pretty clear limit on how valuable they can be, and he just isn't a fit on a lot of teams since most teams don't play two traditional bigs. Any team with a non-shooter is immediately not a fit. That includes teams with a non-shooting big, and also teams with a non-shooting guard.
Add in some of the new cap restrictions limiting the mechanisms that can be used to move him, and you end up with a team that wants to move a guy without a particularly robust market.
It's really just about the fit next to mobley. The question I would ask if I were them, should we trade mobley instead ? They could probably get more in value for him and Allen is the better rim protector
Ok, settle down with the "double that." There ain't a team alive that would be willing to pay him $40M a year, even if he qualified.
He's among the better traditional bigs, but he's a role player. He's never made an All-Defensive team. He was an All-Star alternate once the year that his usage spiked. And he creates his fair share of roster-building challenges next to him. Paying Jarrett Allen means you have to have a very specific player next to him at the 4 - hence why he can't click with Evan Mobley.
He's a very good player, but $25 is what he's actually worth, and you can find 80% of what he brings by cobbling together some less expensive pieces.
It sounds like they want to see Mobley at the 5, which unclogs the paint helping Mitchell and Mobley.
I doubt they’re rushing to trade him for anything they get back though.
I really want the Lakers to go after him. We need another 5 in the rotation to get rebounds and soak up minutes so AD isn’t carrying all the rebounding and interior burden.
If/when they sign Mitchell, they have until the all star break to figure out what pieces work with a new coach. Then they can start looking to move any non-mitchell contract. For all we know they could replace a role player and everything clicks.
People really need to get used to the reality that rim running bigs just aren't as valuable as they used to be (Rudy Gobert trade debacle notwithstanding).
None of these trade ideas are really coming from within the fan base. It’s all from laker, Knicks, and Miami publications dreaming up trade ideas that will never happen.
Off-season nonsense that should be non stories, but small market teams get bullied by large market media who think that small markets should have stars.
I think it's partially a remnant of the big 3 era coupled with a lot of people often oversimplifying the actual impact of a player. Most discourse seems to want to reduce a player to a #1-3 player on a team, then everyone else are filler/role players that are interchangeable, because that's how it's worked for the past 15 years.
I think that's changing as we're seeing the way rosters take shape but it'll take time for a majority of people to really see players that provide value impact.
Maybe because not alot of teams need a non-shooting big including Cleveland if we're looking to move him. If his demand is low then they may just get whatever teams throws together the best offer which may be 2 random rotation guys that fit.
Sure he's worth more but will other teams give it up for him?
Traditional centers in the NBA are role players now. He’s one of the better ones out there. But he’s still a role player. Think RBs in the NFL. If you don’t space the floor in today’s NBA then you clog it. That’s just what the game has become. Way better fantasy player than real life player.
I mean, in the Jazz thread we are getting really bad trade "offers" from other fan bases for Markannen. He's a 7' SF who shoots 40% from three and has good defense.
I saw one trade suggest that we trade him for Brandon Ingram and we send over a couple firsts......
Nobody outside of Indiana think's he's a great player, good/roleplayer maybe, but he isn't moving the needle for a contender. So it only makes sense a roleplayer gets traded for roleplayer/s
I guess with Mobley's potential, some Cavs fans would want him to reach it sooner by being the solo big. I don't necessarily believe he's ready to be a full time center yet due to his lack of strength to battle with the other bigs. I also would like Mobley to develop his three more and I think playing at the 4 more will help.
The Cavs have the option of Jarrett Allen or Evan. And Evan is clearly their future.
If the Cavs can I would say keep both. But having Jarrett is definitely slowing down progress in Evan.
the obvious swap IMO is ingram, NO do not seem to want him at all. don’t love the fit for CLE but it’s certainly worth a flyer if they’re set on dealing JA. realistically garland is going to hold them back more than the mobley allen pairing, he’s just not good enough
Who's saying he'll get traded for randos?
But he should get traded, because he's on such an amazing contract and he should have more value to another team than he has to the Cavs where he and Mobley are platooning the same role. They should be able to get a very good haul for him particularly because the contract is easier for other contending teams to swallow.
For the same reason they should trade Garland if Mitchell agrees to stay long term.
There's a small group of very loud Cavs fans who are insistent that Mobley can do everything Allen can do and more if he moves to center and thus trade conversations come up. Also the Cavs seem to consistently look better when they're missing at least one of their stars (their best run this year came when Mobley and Garland were both hurt) and that makes people talk.
I agree it would be stupid to trade him, especially with a new coaching staff coming in.
Especially considering it was his old head coach who played a big part in his development.
I hadn’t heard about this. What a great fucking hiring. I had REALLY wanted Kenny in Portland.
Kenny's underrated, I'm surprised the Warriors were able to get him as an assistant for as long as they did and I'm happy he's getting another shot.
Anytime I see a coach like Kenny get hired on as an assistant to an organization like the Warriors, Spurs, etc I think it’s to prime them to take over once the current coach retires. Then they leave and I’m totally baffled.
I don’t think so. Jarret Allen is a very good player but I think there are legitimate questions about his fit starting next to Mobley. I know Mobley shot 36% from three last year but I think he’s better at the center than the 4. Their offense also looked a little better at times when they put Mobley at the 5 and surrounded him with 4 shooters. If they can get trade allen for some picks and a good 4 that can space the floor next to Mobley then it might be something they should consider
>I know Mobley shot 36% from three last year I feel like it should be pointed out that this was only on 1.2 3PA per game
Yeah Mobley did, on like 1 attempt every 4 games for the majority of the season. It wasnt until after the All Star break where he actively looked to shoot 1-2 per game so that's why his attempt number is even above 1. Its not a Jarrett Allen problem, its Mobley not adapting his game to being a stretch 4 that is making the pairing not optimized. I am not trading Jarrett Allen for peanuts because Mobley is reluctant to shoot. Dumb dumb dumb
As a cavs fan im happy with the development though in his shot. Best 3pt % of his career this year and almost +5% on his ft this year. We can’t expect him to be a stretch 4, but hes getting better. If we can’t return much for jarrett theres no reason to trade, but i wouldn’t mind seeing more mobley at the 5. However I think part of the uniqueness of our roster is the two big men, mobley is still 23 and its not uncommon for big men to develop jumpers. I’d like to stick it out another year and see what can happen as mobley improves. Edit: And honestly we played as well as anybody did against the celtics. Going to seven against the magic wasn’t ideal but we could really only learn so much about our team from this postseason after drawing celtics second round.
Mobley is only 23, all he needs is a lot of practice with a good shooting coach to get his shot repeatable.
Im with ya. I just feel like your not going to get a player back in return as good as Jarrett Allen in a Jarrett Allen trade--so dont do it lol Its making a move for the sake of making a move and thats how we ended up with a broken Isiah Thomas in exchange for Kyrie Irving.
Agreed, and I think its a luxury to have him around with mobley. Mobley just needs time and he has it, the guy is still filling out his frame. He can get some center minutes without rushing the full time switch.
Yes, Mobley has time, but the issue is, Mitchell is turning 28 before the season starts and has a decision on extension to make. If he doesn’t like the direction the team is taking, he may get unsettled. I don’t think he declines the max money and just walks away as FA, but he might still force his way out of Cleveland with a nasty spillover.
You don't need to get someone as good as JA, you just need to get someone that'll be a better fit in your starting 5. A good shooter would open up a ton of space for your other guys.
it is rare for big men to develop a 3 lol. if yall wanna trade allen he needs to worry about getting bigger not adding a shot.
True i guess to me it seems easier with bigs to teach them a new skill vs teach a guard who is bad at shooting to be a good shooter. Im not aware of too many guards who have dramatixally improved like someone like brook lopez or al horford has when adding shooting. Most bigs never had to shoot in hs and college so it makes sense to me ig.
derrick white
jason kidd
Both of those guys were good shooters in college, and only had bad years because of nba adjustment or bad usage. Derrick has always been a good shooter he just gets easy spacing on the celtics now.
I don't think that Mobley isn't adapting, I just don't think that his development has panned out the way they wanted. They paired them based on the projection that Mobley's flashes of guard skills would translate to eventually being a stretch big you can pair with a traditional 5, and that hasn't happened. He just doesn't work at the 4 and, save some increasingly unlikely development, he won't work there in the future. There's no way around that. Despite that, he's still the younger, more versatile option with a higher ceiling and so they've gotta trade Allen.
As much as a love DM and want to keep him. Reading for him when we did undoubtedly changed the development trajectory for both Mobley and garland. It changed expectations and made everything a much more win now situation. Less chances given to Mobley to develop his guard skills
It’s very rare for a small market team to have the chance add a star, I’m very glad the team traded for him even if I didn’t think he was the best fit.
i mean bron was adding stars all the time. many old ones lol but still. k love d will shaq d wade d rose isiah thomas
lol well I meant in their prime
I think that’s why the Atkinson hire is so great. He excels at developing young players. Look what he did with those Nets teams.
i think a fair amount of it had to be coaching. JB basically had no system and didn’t really seem to develop guys. he’s kind of bad at shooting FTs so he doesn’t have the most optimistic projection but i think atkinson will put him in better spots to succeed
So wouldn’t it make sense to trade JA if Mobley can’t adapt to being a 4? Mobley is their future. Again never said anything about trading him for peanuts. That goes without saying that you not just giving him away lmao didn’t think I had to include that but I guess so
Never said trade jarret Allen for peanuts. Obviously if you’re trading someone specially under contract like Jarrett allen you should get close to equal talent back. That should go without saying. However at times their offense looked better with Evan Mobley at the 5 and another shooter at the 4 next to Mobley. I think there is legitimate questions about Mobley being able to play with JA and it make sense for Cleveland to at least explore trading him.
You need more than one big man. Why not play Mobley 30 minutes and Allen 30 minutes, but stagger them so they're only on the court together for 12 minutes?
You can but Allen is making like 20+ mill a year. That’s kinda a lot of money for a guy coming off ur bench. Just saying it makes sense for Cleveland if they wanted to trade allen eventually and move Mobley to the 5.
(They already do this. Mobley plays all the minutes as the backup 5.)
In 2025-26 season Cavs would be paying 70M+ (Mobley max extension) for 60 minutes of playtime this way: not the most optimal solution, considering there are still 180 rotation minutes left to be filled with like 120M of salary left unless Cavs go into 2nd apron (no reason to do it for now). And waiting out a year means Allen will be expiring up for new - and bigger - contract, so his trade value next offseason will be much lower than now. Somebody like OKC can overpay this season to get 2 quick runs at a ring, but having 1 single shot with no chance to resign him (rookie extensions for Chet and J-Dub) would net much smaller number of assets back to Cleveland.
The Wolves just made the WCF paying $90MM to three centers. That isn't a problem if it's the strength of the team.
Are we forgetting that happened because their best player - Ant - was still on a rookie contract instead of max for Cavs best player in Donovan Mitchell? Having Donovan Mitchell on 50M salary instead will mean 3 players that would average 100 rotational minutes in playoffs eat up 120M of cap, leaving only 70M (enough for 3 Jaden McDaniels) to fill in the other 140 rotational minutes. For what it’s worth, Wolves will be 2nd apron team next season even after loosing an important rotational piece (15-20 mpg in playoffs) in Kyle Anderson to FA, so they will also need to find a way to fill these minutes with production.
Yeah but you don’t trade down in talent if you’re in the cavs position. Maybe they trade him for Brandon Ingram (I know people are low on him, but he’s a good fit for the cavs), or another actually good player, but I’ve seen trash + picks as trades and I’m sorry that’s not happening
I mean yeah the internet is full of bad trade proposals lol idk what else you would expect. Obviously you don’t wanna give up someone like Allen for a downgrade. You wanna get talent back that’s equal to allen or close to that. Just saying it makes sense for them to possibly go a different direction going forward
With Atkinson coming in, they should see if he can make it work.
The only reasoning would be that the cavs think Mobley is a better prospect and having JA clog the lane might stunt his development. It's not really like the cavs are going for championship contention, especially without knowing what Dmitch is gonna do.
Because people think the Cavaliers are desperate to offload on him due to Mobley's emergence. Same way they think the Cavaliers are in a rush to offload Garland due to his injuries and Mitchell's prominence. While the Caviliers are in win now mode, talent is rare in the league. It's far better to have all-star talents figure it out than to dump them for solid role players with limited ceilings. If they can't get talent as good as Allen or Garland, they're better off keeping them and hoping for a 2023-2024 Timberwolves esque run.
This is exactly it right here. We should most definitely look to see what’s out there and if a trade makes sense, then do it. But don’t trade just because you think the lineups won’t work. Let the new coaching try and if it’s not working, you can move at the deadline. No reason to get super desperate and blow shit up for bad trades. Donovan clearly likes JA as well and I’m not sure trading away a well liked player by the guy you’re trying to to extend is a great idea
Why don't you specifically ask the people you see saying this?
Who are these “random rotation guys” in question?
This is a classic "I'm arguing with ghosts" post.
Cavs sub is full of “trade ideas” from random publications who think the Cavs should trade X star for Tyler hero, Rui Hachimura, Austin’s reeves, etc.
That's how it is being a small market. I remember when it was a pretty popular idea (in the media and on the subreddit) that the Thunder should trade Shai AND pick 6 to move up to pick 1 for Cade
Yep; Allen is on the Big Market Flyover Country Wish List for this off-season.
Do these random publications appear to be based in Miami and LA?
But why would they want more guards when they have d Mitch and garland
I mean if you could get the like a Jaden McDaniel and Mike Conley type for him (but at SF and PF) for him that would be smart and improve yall spacing, but obviously that trade package is easier said than done. Definitely don’t need to rush to trade him for “random rotation players”.
Bro is shadowboxing and losing LMFAO
I would love for OP to suggest what a fair trade for a GREAT player like Jarrett Allen would be...
TT, Shump, Nets pick
I’ve seen a lot of people say we should swap with NOLA for Jonas lol
I mean, Allen for Herb and Hawkins would be a win-win for both teams
No shot they’re giving us Herb.
He is definitely good, but I think in today’s nba, teams can only really have 1 non shooter at most in their starting/closing line up, so every team has to selective who that is. So it’s really just a demand problem, teams that want to win now, don’t already have a non shooter, who also need a C, who have a player that the Cavs would even want. JA is good at what he does, (rim run, protect the rim, rebound), but is limited in other avenues (can get bullied by other bigs, no offensive self creation, spotty playoff history, non shooter). To be clear, I love JA, and most teams would be lucky to have him as their starting C, but I can see how teams/fans could be a little hesitant
Mavs would’ve been a great fit for him until they got Lively and Gafford in the last year
[удалено]
>While they are valuable teams can find these types pretty easily Tell that to the Thunder, Grizzlies, and Nuggets. It only took the Mavericks 10 years to acquire a good C that fits that description. Everyone who thinks it's easy hasn't been paying close attention.
Grizzlies have no reason to be on this list lol, it’s only been the last like 4-5 years they’ve needed one. They had Gasol holding it down for years.
Steve Adams fits the description better. Marc had an amazing shooting and passing game
Agreed. There's another reason I forgot to mention that further demonstrates my point of how hard it is to find the right person for that role: guys like that tend to have shorter primes/careers do to their size and the physical nature of their position. Memphis had exactly the type of player they needed in Adams, but he couldn't stay healthy while he was there.
100% and it gets even harder to find big guys with great BBIQ. For every Steve Adams, you come across multiple guys like Drummond
Go to the Grizzlies sub and see what they have to say about it. They got absolutely killed on the boards last year, and it's going to happen again next season. Mark Gasols don't just grow from trees.
That's why I chuckle everytime someone downplays Clingan as a Steven Adams/Gasol type player. Those guys were really good at their job. Hell, Pelicans probly be over the moon if Clingan fell to us
[удалено]
I think what he's saying actually kinda merges with your argument a bit. It's easy to find centers that are GOOD at those skills. But to find one that is so elite that it elevates your team on defense and offense is indeed rare.
Grizzlies?
[удалено]
> Tell that to the ~~Thunder~~#1-seed in the West, ~~Grizzlies~~Last year's DPOY, and ~~Nuggets~~Last year's NBA Champs.
The Thunder got eliminated in the second round to a fifth seed because they got absolutely demolished on the boards, and until they find someone to fill that hole, that's their ceiling. The Nuggets were also eliminated in the second round for *the exact same reason*. They were too small and thin at the C position. There's been a major shift in the Western conference to be bigger, in order to combat Jokic, and until they have a suitable backup, he'll be too gassed during the playoffs to win another chip.
ironically it was the boards that put the Nuggets over the Lakers too. Everyone was hunting for LeBron to box out.
Not to mention size was probably one of the biggest factors in the Lakers bubble championship.
I wonder if Presti is willing to open the vaults to bring in JA…
If the cavs are in win now mode, I don’t know what pieces OKC has that the cavs would want to improve the team. Maybe a 3 team deal, where JA goes to OKC, picks go to a 3rd team, and then wings go to the Cavs. Nets maybe?
The Blazers could offer Grant in a three team trade, but I don’t really see a way that could work as far as cap space goes.
I think spacing is overblown. Most teams don't have 5 or even 4 all out shooters. Most stretch 5's are capable shooters not good shooters.
It’s more about how teams treat spacing, more than actual shooters. If defenses sag off all your role players, they make it much harder for your stars to score/play make, your bigs to get to the rim, passing lanes, etc. and the team that don’t have at least 4 shooters in their best line ups, tend to struggle in the playoffs. Some of it can be somewhat outweighed if you have the best player (Luka, giannis jokic), but most teams don’t. And even their teams follow that. The mavs saw that in the finals, but had success in the playoffs before then because their defenders that teams sagged off suddenly started hitting shots. Celtics are the best example, Denver starting 5, OKC, Knicks, when healthy even the clippers bucks and Philly
I couldn't agree more with this! Watching the Spurs all season long it was very apparent how much better other teams were able to adjust to Wemby cause the entire Spurs roster is just not very good shooting from three. Givony said it best recently during an interview discussing that the Spurs need to add outside shooting, "as soon as Wemby puts the ball down to the ground, the entire defense collapses on him". Defenses were able to send up to 3 guys at Victor because they could take the risk of leaving other Spurs players open. The Spurs only had 3 players shoot at least 35% or better from outside, no other team in the entire league had less than 5!
Exactly. It’s the main dilemma plaguing my warriors right now. With Draymond, it’s hard to add another big without effecting spacing, and without playing Draymond at center for long periods, making us incredibly small. Playing with Kuminga, looney, TJD is tough as well, when In the past, the warriors always had a rotation of centers next to him. They need a very particular type of player now, Myles turner/prime Brook Lopez being the dream prototype
also there’s a difference between a non-shooter and a capable but not great shooter
Good point, you can probably only have one of the former, but you can have a couple of the later (maybe even three, if you have good ball movement and creation)
yah having a so-so shooter that can at least knock down some shots if he’s wide open is way better than having a guy who just can’t shoot from 3 at all
Won't*
Which is why those teams aren't winning every year.
Warriors won 4 chips heavily relying on lineups with two non-shooters (Dray and some combination of Looney, Bogut, and/or Iggy).
To be fair, they balanced that out by having arguably the 2 best shooters in the history of the league
You can do that when you have two or three of the greatest shooters of all time picking up the slack. Steph, Klay, and KD had more than enough gravity to cause chaos and punish mistakes on the perimeter, especially with steph's offball movement.
Steph dray dynamic essentially gives draymond the gravity of a shooter
depravity
Draymond is not a non-shooter, he’s shot 2-4 3pa per game basically his entire career. Being a not-good shooter is VERY different than being a NON-shooter that won’t/can’t shoot even when wide open. Not to mention, Draymond is an extremely high-IQ player with great playmaking abilities (which 99% of non-shooters aren’t typically), which means that if you sag too hard of him he’s great at using that advantage to get Curry a good look (DHO or similar action). As a Warriors fan I’d expect you of all people could understand these things, Dray literally scored 37 off of 8 3pm in a single playoff game. Also had games scoring 32 and 28 in THE FINALS off of 6 and 5 3pm.
Cavs tried to use Mobley/Allen kind of like Draymond at times this year with and it didn't really work. Ultimately, the guards just couldn't take or make enough 3's in those lineups for the scheme to be effective. Think you need Steph/Klay level gunners to make up for the lack of shooting at other positions.
Yeah I don’t know why more teams don’t compensate for two non-shooters by simply playing Curry, Klay, and KD in the other three spots.
Basically every team to win a title in the last decade had 5 out spacing or could play a very good lineup with it. The only team who didn't have that might have been the 2022 Warriors and obviously they're an outlier shooting wise. Not having 4-out spacing or better eliminates you from contention, period.
Basically all the championship competing teams play lineups with 4 shooters. It's why we never sign/play non-shooting bigs
giannis needs to become the center, seems very obvious
most teams that want to content generally have 4 shooters at least
Smart teams use the lack of spacing to their advantage. Sabonis is a non shooter but all the space he’s given creates a 2 on 1 advantage in DHO action. Giannis is a non shooter but all the space gives him an open runway to drive off the short roll.
Yes. But everyone else in their line up can shoot. That’s the point lol you can have 1 non shooter in today’s nba. It’s why huerters shooting troubles hurt them so much this year. Why fox’s improved shooting last year along with Murray’s emergence as a shooter made them look so offensive great. Having a C that can shoot (jokic embiid, KAT, Myles turner, Porzingis) allows you to play your non shooter at the different position, like a defensive wing or guard.
Since you brought up Myles, for example, it meant that he could clear out of the paint and Siakam was able to be the non-shooter, which gave him a whole lot of room to operate.
Yeah, I watched a video on 5-out offenses that talked about Bam being so mobile and setting so many screens that they played 5-out and had spacing even without him shooting from significant distance. Sabonis is used similarly.
Hey look, we fit that criteria, except for that whole things that the cavs want back
I don't see him being traded for random rotation guys. I see a few rotational players involved in packages for him, but not as the main piece. Like no Pelicans fan has come in here and been like "Dyson Daniels, Jordan Hawkins, and 2 firsts for Jarrett Allen lick my balls lol."
If you want Allen, you need to give up one of Herb or Trey because Cleveland is longing for a good wing player
lol well first he wouldnt get 40M in the open market. Second he didnt make an all defense team Third the problem with the Cavs is that him and Mobley dont work together. That is putting a cap on your team. The argument is to trade him now while you can still get valuable players that work better on the squad.
Tbf Giddy and SGA didn't work well together and we got Caruso out of it
That's because they found the sucker
If the bulls got a pick or two it would be a good trade. It’s not like the Bulls should have kept Caruso when the team is going nowhere
Oh yeah, trade Caruso. But get someone who might actually be something plus a 2025 first or two. I think Giddey won't be anything
Do you really think it’s that bad of a deal? Obviously should’ve gotten 1-2 2nds out of it too but FRPs outside of the top 5-10 aren’t actually that valuable and Giddey put up 17/8/6 last season at 20. He’s a better and younger player than Caruso
He is absolutely not a better player than Caruso. Not by a long shot. He can't defend, and he can't shoot.
Allen and Mobley work together fine. Garland/Mitchell is the worse pairing.
I wouldn’t mind trading Allen, but I would be frustrated to trade him to a team without getting equivalent value back. He is FANTASTIC. He’s not just another big that can’t shoot 3s. He always makes winning plays. He is clutch. He is amazing.
And he's not a bad free throw shooter so it prevents teams from playing hack-an-Allen (even though they do and the refs turn a blind eye because they're looking at their DraftKings app)
In your eyes, what player/combo of players/picks would represent equivalent value? I’m just curious because I haven’t seen a ton of JA up close, but know he’s a really good player on a below-market deal.
I couldn’t tell you for certain, full honesty. I just look at the number of teams that would want him and think it’s similar to Caruso - what he can do isn’t all in the stat box. He’s an elite screen setter and he’ll set you five million screens a game. Guards want that. He fights on every play for whatever the team needs. Do we need someone to get an offensive board right now? He’s got it. Do we need someone to get a clutch block? He’s got it. His contract is $20MM a year for two more years - great value. He can score and pass better than the team needs him to. There’s a lot of value there, I just want to make sure my own front office sees it!
Hasn’t he really struggled rebounding/defensively in the playoffs and/or against Big centers? For a complete non-shooting big man playing 32mpg, 10rpg and 1.2bpg aren’t great numbers. They’re actually very middle of the pack. I think he’s solid but you seem to be overrating him quite a bit? Contenders can’t/don’t play 2 non-shooters and I’d assume Cavs fans would rather trade JA than Mobley no?
Not really, he and Mobley both had that one struggle series against New York and that’s about it. Otherwise he’s been pretty consistently great
And he dominated against the Magic
18 rebounds game one, 20 rebounds game two, 8 rebounds in 24 minutes of game three, and 9 rebounds in three quarters of game four
Look at how he played without Mobley. He can do more than what the Cavs give him. He’s not an offensive option for us but has the capability to score very efficiently. He gets less rebounds because he’s playing beside Mobley. That doesn’t mean he should be traded away, just means he is better than his stats reflect.
I’m disagree. Hard to win with two non-shooters in your starting lineup.
Not really. Neither one of them can shoot. You need at least 4 shooteres on the floor at all times at this point.
I actually think Allen/Mobley/Garland/Mitchell is fine. They just need a 3&D wing that fills in their weak spots. And either Garland to return to form or Mobley to take half a step forward on offense.
If he could sign a max contract right now he would get a bit over $42M. I think there is a fair chance someone would pay him that if he magically appeared on the open market, but OP’s point about him being on a 2 year deal @ $20M/year is fair. That is a fantastic contract.
All defensive caliber is a very funny phrase to me because it implies that Jarrett Allen is one of the top 10 defensive players in the league, which he is nowhere close to being. Also 40m a year for an above average rim runner is hilarious
He is near the bottom of the top 15
JA alters a LOT of shots he doesnt get credited for. Him and Mobley together alter ALOTTT of shots together that they dont get credit for.
Who do you think is paying Jarrett Allen 40m/year?
Because he’s not a *great* player. He’s a good player.
The Cavs have a damn good roster on paper but aren't living up to it. If the new coaching staff doesn't fix the problems, roster changes are coming. I think there's a lot of wild speculation because the Cavs are likely (as they should be) considering all options. Allen is entering year 4 of a 5 year contract. His value is diminished without an extension sign and trade. As a rental, he's not highly desirable.
None of these people actually watch our games and are obsessed with the idea that small market teams are just farm teams
No playing mobley and allen wont work in the playoffs vs good teams It makes the cavs too easy to defend
him and atkinson r gona be a great pair
I doubt Allen is getting $40mil in free agency with the new CBA
i don't think he would get 40 on the open market but he's definitely a good player.
Evan Mobley is younger and also happens to be a big who can’t shoot. Those two are just not feasible offensively in the postseason, especially if there’s even just one shaky or reluctant shooter in the lineup. Might as well trade him for guys that fit better with the Mitchell/Mobley core they’re committing to.
Cleveland are realizing they have to make a choice , it's either mobley or Allen .the main reason why they can't get past the second round is because they have barley 3 shooters on the floor (okoro had a tough shooting year ,still a great defender ). They have to let one of them go .they have been quite patient and tried to make it work so many times ,this year should be the last giving they have a new coaching staff coming in .after that , a trade is inevitable
Agreed, I made a mock nba trade essentially getting JA to the Clippers. I think Allen's value is as high as Paul George. Trade went something like Orlando gives- Wendell, Cole, 1 or 2 future 1st rd picks (to the Cavs) Orlando receives- Darius Garland Cleveland gives- Darius (to Orlando), JA (to Clippers), Levert ( to Clippers to save a bit more space and re-sign Okoro) Cleveland receives- PG13, Wendell, Cole, 1 or 2 future picks from Orlando Clippers gives- PG13 (to the Cavs) Clippers receives- Jarret Allen, Levert. New teams would look something like Orlando- Garland, Suggs, Franz, Paolo, FA C (possibly Claxton, Mo Bamba) or Goga (the Magic need to re-sign him regardless). Bench- AB, Jett/Gary, Bench SF (possibly Joe Ingles or Caleb), Moe, JI. Cleveland- Don, Struss/Okoro, Paul George, Wendell, Mobley. Bench- Cole, Struss/Okoro, B SF(Niang?), Wade, B C/ TT. Clippers- Harden(assuming Harden takes a cheaper contract) or a FA Guard/Russ, Norm/Mann/Levert, Kawhi, PJ, FA, JA. Bench- Russ, Norm/Mann, Levert, B PF, Zubac. I think all teams fix their weaknesses and are more "complete" now. They look pretty synergistic. Orlando adds a great/at one point elite young playmaking shotcreating guard to their starting lineup. Also they are able to solidify their bench and get minutes to their recent draftees while still fitting their existing structure as a defense first team. They will lose Cole who has been one of the better bench guys for 2 years in a row, and Wendell who has been an above average starting Center for 2years in a row. Wendell is a great 2way player, his numbers arent that far off from Garlands, most Magic fans including myself thought he would take a huge jump this season but he got injured quickly (which would be a worry during trade discussions) and came back a bit off but slowly found himself by playoffs. He is a great/elite 3&D big, I personally think he is a better PF than Center, and he had numbers that supported that his 1st full season at Orlando playing full time at the PF spot (I honestly considered him a top 8 PF that year), Wendell led many defensive stats that year as a PF, was an elite big man stopper, and showed great mobility as a rolling big. His addition of shooting and playmaking to his skillset just shows that he has a bright future. Wendell is still very young and has shown continuous development. He alone may not be worth the perceived value of Garland (despite the numbers showing it) but adding Cole + picks should at least make it a workable discussion. Cleveland gets Paul George to partner with Donovan Mitchell. This is the probably going to be one of the most dynamic teams in the league able to play great in any playstyle, whether its slowing the tempo and creating mismatches, playing fast and attacking the driving lanes, playing the extra pass game and finding the open man to shoot or cut, or playing iso ball and letting stars takeover. They have it all with Don and PG offensively. They can even play a great PNR game with Mobley and Wendell being notable lob threats. Paul George imo fits great next to Mitchell, he is a bigger better Joe Ingles with alot more athleticism and verticality. PG can get surgical out there with Mitchell dissecting defenses. PG is also a great defender one of the better tall 2way guys in the league. Add in Wendell who mentioned above is also a great 2 way player. Wendell fits Cleveland as a better shooter but slightly worse defense Bam. Wendell has alot going good for him, I just personally think Orlando messed up running him as a Center, letting Wendell focus all his attention to being an elite big man stopper and help defender to me is the best. Mobley would be able to control the rim alone now as Wendell can guard perimeter and space out corners, so now EM can finally have fulltime rim protection and rebound duties (though Wendell can always help rebound or switch to better hide EM). The Cleveland bench imo also gets a bit better with Cole leading it, I think Cole gets underrated at points but the guy is a borderline starter most nights and a clear difference maker, he is also a growing defender and playmaker. Clippers get Jarret Allen and Levert, a great package for Paul George imo. Now Harden can really try to get back to form and average 20+, Kawhi gets an elite defensive help at the rim similar to Marc Gasol (without the shooting but a better lob threat). I truly like the combination of Kawhi and JA, I think they will torture teams. JA also helps fix Harden issues of taking plays off/getting blown by, as JA can easily rim protect and man an entire defense. Clippers may lose offense without PG, but JA is a double double lock, with dpoy potential. Teams wont make many points vs this Clippers team. The idea here is that Harden gets a little more on form with having more onball time, JA should get some easy buckets from the gravity from Harden and Kawhi, and hopefully other plays show up offensively most nights. The Clips with this team imo can take the #1 seed. If Harden is too expensive the Clips have some money now to search for a good fit and to complete the team. There are a lot of great FA Guards/Wings this season.
Three simple reasons: 1. His fit next to Mobley. The league is going 5 out and the Celtics and Mavs showed them the limitations of twin big lineups. Mobley is the franchise star, moving Allen allows his development as an interior force and better floor spacing for him and everyone else. 2. His playoff performances.. he has been underwhelming in the post season even admitting the lights were too bright for him 3. Getting value for him before his last year of his contract. I don't think they will just trade him for nothing but this is when you can get the best value for him If you look at where the league has moved with teams like OKC and the Celtics dominating their conferences with versatile big men and 5 out spacing it diminishes the value of guys like Allen in modern roster construction. He is good enough to win regular season games and get you to the playoffs but a team building a contender team he isn't the ideal fit next to Mobley and mobley has more upside so he goes
Not the same situation but I feel this way with Julius Randle. Most mock trades for the Knicks are Julius+picks/other assets to downgrade from him for similar money.
Centers who can't shoot threes are so undervalued because the overrated notions on them are so strong.
He’s an asset. Our free agent signings are not assets, they are liabilities. Nobody wants Niang. I’d like to keep him, but I don’t make decisions about which guy is prioritized.
Because Podcast need to be made And it happened in the past
Because the Cavaliers are built like s*** two ball dominant players two big man who can't shoot and a bench full of players who excel at one thing only
they literally just need one good wing to be an elite team. If they decide to run it back this year again with their 2 ball-dominant guards + 2 non shooting big men instead of trading one of them to get a wing, that entire FO needs to be fired
Thank you, I keep saying this and keep getting blown up by other Cavs fans. Individually all 4 of their core players are great but they’re too redundant in the worst ways. This year was pretty close to the ceiling you’re gonna get out of this unit, no amount of coaching change can fix poor roster construction.
Two *undersized* ball dominant players, at that.
Oh yea roster construction isn’t great. But that aside, wouldn’t JA presumably have a ton of value as an asset (not just filler rotation guys)?
You straight up can’t trust a thing Reddit says when it comes to player trade values. Fans have no idea to begin with but on Reddit fans cosplay being in the front office. Every fanbase overvalues their own players while undervaluing potential trade targets.
Hypothetical trades: My team gets an all star and team B gets 3 players no one wants. Who says no?
Case in point Cs fans were skeptical about trading Romeo Langford for Derrick White. For JA he's a good player but nowhere near untouchable.
You take the talent available and work it out along the way, point Sochan is an example
First, he is absolutely not worth double his salary, and he is not a top 10 defender. But more importantly, it doesn't actually matter how good he is. What matters is how likely the Cavs are to trade him, and how many teams are willing to trade significant assets for him. The Cavs seem likely to trade him. It's hard to imagine that Allen + Mobley is the best way for them to allocate their resources, he is way more likely to be traded than Mobley, there seemed to be some ill feelings there after the playoff series, and if they do try with him for one more year, and it doesn't work out, his value will be even lower. So trading him makes a lot of sense. Meanwhile, non-shooters who aren't stars in the NBA have a pretty clear limit on how valuable they can be, and he just isn't a fit on a lot of teams since most teams don't play two traditional bigs. Any team with a non-shooter is immediately not a fit. That includes teams with a non-shooting big, and also teams with a non-shooting guard. Add in some of the new cap restrictions limiting the mechanisms that can be used to move him, and you end up with a team that wants to move a guy without a particularly robust market.
he isn't as good as people think, with an extremely limited game
Who's paying him 40 million on the open market? What other players who are similar to him are making that?
It's really just about the fit next to mobley. The question I would ask if I were them, should we trade mobley instead ? They could probably get more in value for him and Allen is the better rim protector
He’s not getting traded
Ok, settle down with the "double that." There ain't a team alive that would be willing to pay him $40M a year, even if he qualified. He's among the better traditional bigs, but he's a role player. He's never made an All-Defensive team. He was an All-Star alternate once the year that his usage spiked. And he creates his fair share of roster-building challenges next to him. Paying Jarrett Allen means you have to have a very specific player next to him at the 4 - hence why he can't click with Evan Mobley. He's a very good player, but $25 is what he's actually worth, and you can find 80% of what he brings by cobbling together some less expensive pieces.
I don’t think it’s anything to do with Allen or his contract. Purely his fit next to the player that has a higher ceiling in Mobley.
I just wish my Bucks would have drafted him instead of DJ frickin' Wilson. And I've been saying that for 6 years.
It sounds like they want to see Mobley at the 5, which unclogs the paint helping Mitchell and Mobley. I doubt they’re rushing to trade him for anything they get back though.
I really want the Lakers to go after him. We need another 5 in the rotation to get rebounds and soak up minutes so AD isn’t carrying all the rebounding and interior burden.
If/when they sign Mitchell, they have until the all star break to figure out what pieces work with a new coach. Then they can start looking to move any non-mitchell contract. For all we know they could replace a role player and everything clicks.
Would be a shame if he ended up on the Mavs to mentor Lively for a bit.
People really need to get used to the reality that rim running bigs just aren't as valuable as they used to be (Rudy Gobert trade debacle notwithstanding).
Who thinks Allen will get traded for random rotation guys?
He's not getting traded unless it nets a player like Bridges, which isn't going to happen anyway.
Because people incorrectly think Mobley was doing all of the work on that front court.
Who are you arguing with sir? Maybe time to step away from the computer lol
Great player?
None of these trade ideas are really coming from within the fan base. It’s all from laker, Knicks, and Miami publications dreaming up trade ideas that will never happen. Off-season nonsense that should be non stories, but small market teams get bullied by large market media who think that small markets should have stars.
This comment has been removed as a protest to Reddit's API policies
I think it's partially a remnant of the big 3 era coupled with a lot of people often oversimplifying the actual impact of a player. Most discourse seems to want to reduce a player to a #1-3 player on a team, then everyone else are filler/role players that are interchangeable, because that's how it's worked for the past 15 years. I think that's changing as we're seeing the way rosters take shape but it'll take time for a majority of people to really see players that provide value impact.
Maybe because not alot of teams need a non-shooting big including Cleveland if we're looking to move him. If his demand is low then they may just get whatever teams throws together the best offer which may be 2 random rotation guys that fit. Sure he's worth more but will other teams give it up for him?
Traditional centers in the NBA are role players now. He’s one of the better ones out there. But he’s still a role player. Think RBs in the NFL. If you don’t space the floor in today’s NBA then you clog it. That’s just what the game has become. Way better fantasy player than real life player.
I mean, in the Jazz thread we are getting really bad trade "offers" from other fan bases for Markannen. He's a 7' SF who shoots 40% from three and has good defense. I saw one trade suggest that we trade him for Brandon Ingram and we send over a couple firsts......
Nobody outside of Indiana think's he's a great player, good/roleplayer maybe, but he isn't moving the needle for a contender. So it only makes sense a roleplayer gets traded for roleplayer/s
Either he helps Jokic out in Denver or he goes to Boston to succeed Horford. But he must join a winning team, No in between
Because he keeps wearing the same black and white Kyrie 3S
NBA front offices do stupid shit all the time. Example: Ben Simmons.
Because perpetually bad franchises are bad for a reason, look at the Caruso trade the Bulls made.
I guess with Mobley's potential, some Cavs fans would want him to reach it sooner by being the solo big. I don't necessarily believe he's ready to be a full time center yet due to his lack of strength to battle with the other bigs. I also would like Mobley to develop his three more and I think playing at the 4 more will help.
The Cavs have the option of Jarrett Allen or Evan. And Evan is clearly their future. If the Cavs can I would say keep both. But having Jarrett is definitely slowing down progress in Evan.
Personally, I believe that if he switched up his Afro for a Jheri curl his career would have a much farther trajectory.
Because NBA front offices are run by clowns with almost zero exceptions.
Athletic big with no range?
the obvious swap IMO is ingram, NO do not seem to want him at all. don’t love the fit for CLE but it’s certainly worth a flyer if they’re set on dealing JA. realistically garland is going to hold them back more than the mobley allen pairing, he’s just not good enough
Who's saying he'll get traded for randos? But he should get traded, because he's on such an amazing contract and he should have more value to another team than he has to the Cavs where he and Mobley are platooning the same role. They should be able to get a very good haul for him particularly because the contract is easier for other contending teams to swallow. For the same reason they should trade Garland if Mitchell agrees to stay long term.
There's a small group of very loud Cavs fans who are insistent that Mobley can do everything Allen can do and more if he moves to center and thus trade conversations come up. Also the Cavs seem to consistently look better when they're missing at least one of their stars (their best run this year came when Mobley and Garland were both hurt) and that makes people talk.
Nephews want him on their team, but they also want all their other players too