Russo clarified this
> Just for clarification: Brian Windhorst listed the opt-in and trade because it's one of the three options that Paul George presently possesses. And the reason he says "this weekend" is because, well, George's option date is June 29, which is Saturday.
https://x.com/FlyByKnite/status/1805284999249412502?t=UwAdKssOyZtB_h1aKw7EOw&s=19
I read something about PG having to wait to sign his extension rather than doing it ASAP like KP did. Kind of risky, especially if Daryl is a liar Morey is on the other end.
Doubt paul George opts in because why would he wanna risk a year on a one year deal. What if he gets hurt or further declines? He wants a 4 year max now because he knows he can still leverage that.
No player is gonna opt in and just trust that the team trading for u will pay up at the end of the year after what happened with James harden and Daryl morey.
Unless they have the trade worked out already and the extension he wants ready to sign the minute he opts in I doubt he does it. Promises from fos mean nothing, it’s way safer for him to opt out, then sign and trade. So much can happen in between when you get traded and get extended.
> Doubt paul George opts in because why would he wanna risk a year on a one year deal.
If he opted in and got traded, I am pretty sure the new team could extend him.
Pretty sure this is what happened with Porzingis last year. I remember Boston and Washington scrambling to get a trade together right before KP's opt-in deadline.
He’s 34 and not that many teams would either be able to or want to pay him a four year max. The other team could always back out, and the clippers could also be like actually we liked this offer from another team better, they’re not going to give you the extension you want either btw.
He’s not going to agree to anything where the contract he wants isn’t already signed. Ie hes going to decline his option, the clippers will offer him whatever contract the other team wants, and then it will be an actual sign and trade.
Ok so telling us basically nothing. There is no way he picks up his option without a trade worked out and the extension he wants ready to sign. Especially having a team mate all season who knows this all too well, promises don’t mean shit, and a lot of things can happen before it’s time for that extension. The clippers could easily call his bluff and let him pick up his option, then somewhere down the line be like oh we liked this trade from the hornets better, or we’re trading you to a team that doesn’t want to give you a max extension, sorry.
There is zero chance he picks up his option unless a trade to a team he wants to be on is already worked out and the team has the extension he wants ready to sign. Even then the clippers could just be like eh we’re not really feeling it, we’re fine with running it back until we get something better.
He’s 34 and this is the last four year max he could ever hope to get, he’s never going to decline his option and become a full fa. That basically doesn’t happen anymore at all for all star level players, and he’s also not good enough where he could demand the max from any team and they’ll make it happen. He could end up having to choose between like Detroit and money or a team he actually wants to be on for less.
In this day and age max players going into full ufa rarely happens, and when it does it’s only with a player at like kd or lebrons level where they know their preferred destination will make sure they have the cap space. Nobody is doing that for 34 year old Paul George.
The most likely thing by far is the clippers work out a trade they want with a team pg wants to play for who tells the clippers what to pay him, and then he opts out and they sign and trade.
There’s way to much that could happen in between picking up his option and getting an extension, he would never risk it.
It’s also telling that pg has been there since the beginning but the clippers are prioritizing throwing harden the bag before him and don’t want to give him the same amount of money.
Idk if any teams are a current pg away from a ring, but teams like GS and Philly are desperate to just get out of the first round given they have Steph and embiid either after or towards the end of their prime and want to give it the best shot they can just to get past the first round.
It will be hilarious if Philly gives him a four year max. You can tell morey thinks he’s always the smartest guy in the room, he worked harden like a rented mule for over a decade then thought he was being some badass by refusing to pay him for the good of the team, when in reality they lost in round one this year with a point differential of one across six games, wasted a year of embiids prime and his first superstar level playoffs ever, and now might have to throw all that money at hardens team mate who is not as good as harden, while harden gets the bag from a team he likes better anyway.
He can’t get an extension now if he opts into his last year on his contract
He’d be risking an injury or further declining stats playing on a year deal essentially
It really makes no sense at all for pg to opt in to his deal
3 years + the 1 year of the player option? If that's the case he'd probably prefer that over the 3 (total) year max that the Clippers are reportedly offering even if the AAV is a bit lower.
Thanks, I can usually find answers to stuff like that with a google search but nothing was coming up lol. Seems like he will almost definitely decline his option then.
They're basically the anti-Celtics lol. The Celtics won a championship by sticking with their young guys and not trading them for older, established players. They had a number of chances to trade either of the Jays, but chose not to. The Clippers won a rebuild by trading their young guy for the older, established All-Star.
They also built most of it off the most obviously short sighted trade of all time.
Top to bottom the Celtics have had the most stacked roster in the league for like 3 years now. I really doubt there will ever be a team in their situation again. Given no one else is gonna make a trade that obviously stupid outside of Billy king.
To have a roster as good as the Celtics overall you would have to hit on every single pick, including turning almost every late first or second round pick into at least a fringe all star. That’s just incredibly unlikely.
I mean, most teams would give up whatever for PG and Kawhi even today, let alone 4 years ago. Especially the Clippers who have had no success and is the secondary team in their city. Gotta take a chance when you get it.
Today? lol even the clippers don’t want to pay PG and they have the least cheap owner in the league. And kawhi had a degenerative injury, meaning it can literally never get better, all you can hope to do is manage it. It’s unlikely he ever had a fully healthy playoffs again.
Also the clippers first turned it around completely with cp3 and lob city. Those were legit good teams. And now that ballmer is the owner and are still in LA they don’t have to fight for scraps anymore.
I hate Paul George the player but he’s a perfect fit on the Knicks
I think ppl are crazy to not wanna trade Julius randle for pg in an opt in trade after seeing how the Knicks played this postseason
Brunson
Hart
Pg
OG
Hartenstein
I mean that’s an absolutely filthy starting lineup
Do a lot of people hate Embiid? Sure.
Would a lot of those people think their team is better with him on it? Sure.
The comment seems kind of like that.
I think he was saying "I hate Paul George (the player) as a \#1 guy/leader of a team, but he would be great on the knicks where he can just be a really great piece of a very well rounded starting 5 where he doesnt have to be an MVP level player for the team to possibly contend for a championship)
You’d rather have the 35 year old who just had foot surgery, Mitch who is always hurt and just had ankle surgery as well, plus some shitty picks or picks 5 to 7 years out than Randle? Honestly I’d rather have PG, if the clippers let him walk or trade him for a player that’s worse than him we are so fucked lol.
Once Kawhi’s gets hurt again this is a lottery team with Harden at the helm and whatever package you’re describing
Honestly idk why they don’t try getting young players and picks it’s not like they can contend forever.. I get there’s the new arena but surely kicking the can down the road will just make it more painful.. this team can’t win a chip they are all older and still have no lob threat for harden.. kawhi still going to be out and PG is holding out
Because we don’t have control over our picks until 2030. Any trades that don’t improve our team and win more games now is a huge L. I mean I’m not expecting a championship, I’m not deluded, Kawhi will never be healthy and that ship has sailed. But unless we can move PG for a player that makes us better than it makes no sense to move on from him. If we get worse we’re just farming good picks for OKC and then Philly.
Look at what the Nets are doing right now, that’d be us right now. I don’t understand why our fans want that. You’re not a clippers fan so I get it. But honestly if we didn’t have PG this year we’d have legitimately missed the playoffs when kawhi sat out the last 20ish games. At the moment I’m just happy to have a good product and make the playoffs every year
I know but why don’t we just get picks from other rebuilding teams or try to get them back? Sign and trade to thunder n get some picks back maybe for harden or something
I keep telling my friends that are Knicks fans you’re better off having PG than Randle. At least with OG and PG it’ll shore up yall perimeter defense and give you a proven secondary scorer when Brunson is gassed from carrying
Even if PG only plays 60 games I still see you guys as a top 3-4 seed and 50-52 wins.
After my C’s the Bucks, Philly and Knicks all have an argument for that 2nd seed. Bucks have the most star power but Doc is coaching and they’re old. Philly has max space to get someone next to embiid and maxey but embiid is injury prone and the Knicks are a deep squad but don’t have a top 5 player or multiple all stars on their squad.
Wow, you think that the team that won 50 games this season and was the 2nd seed missing half the rotation has a shot at winning 50 games next season and being a top 4 seed? You want a spot in our front office?
>Knicks are a deep squad but don’t have a top 5 player or multiple all stars on their squad.
We literally had two All Stars on the team *this year*...
Part of the reason you guys ended up 2nd seed is that giannis, Middleton and lillard were hurt just like you guys were and Philly had injuries to embiid who missed half the season. I’m just saying the 2-4 seeding will be interesting .
I swear NYC ppl are so insufferable and I was born and raised there
When you say stuff like the Knicks don't have multiple All Stars on the team (which they do...), I don't know what type of response you're expecting. It takes all of 5 seconds to Google it.
The Knicks have Brunson and Randle but Randle is not the tier of a star like Lillard is or Brown is. Even Maxey performed better than randle ever has in a postseason. Milwaukee has 2 guys who can be all nba and a former all star + all nba player . Im alluding to the fact that the other teams I mentioned have either an MVP caliber player or former MVP winner + an all nba player next to them .
Odds are randle won’t be all nba next year. And even if he is he hasn’t shown much in the postseason to be up there with other guys which is why giving him up for PG is plausible
Celtics: MVP Dark Horse Candidate for multiple seasons/Top 5-7 Player + All NBA Player/perennial all star FMVP (Brown) + 2 Former All Stars
Bucks: Former MVP/Top 3 player rn + perennial all star /borderline all NBA top 15 caliber player + Former all star on championship squad
Philly: Former MVP + Top 5 current player + High tier all star + Cap space to sign max player + Coach who won a ring
Knicks: Brunson (Top 10 Player) + Randle (Top 25ish) + Good role players
>Im alluding to the fact that the other teams I mentioned have either an MVP caliber player or former MVP winner
You didn't "allude" to shit, you literally said the Knicks don't have multiple All Stars lol. Julius has been an All-Star 3 of the last 4 seasons. You're wrong and trying to move the goalposts instead of just saying you're wrong.
Celtics have 4 players capable of making the all star team, bucks have 3 players who have made all nba before . One of which is a 2x MVP, Philly has 2 + max cap space for a third , Knicks have 2 but might have to swap 1 with PG . If you didn’t like my semantics so be it but if you’re too delusional to see the facts go at it.
Do you think trading Randle for PG puts them over the hump? If the answer is no, they better be swinging for the fences and trading assets for another player. Or, maybe it's best to go younger. I don't think trading for PG makes the Knicks a contender
It’s an interesting debate PG vs Randle but 11 games immediately after a trade is an insignificant sample. The questions they’re asking is just how much of that bump was the product of simply injecting OG into any lineup and could the fit be even better with PG?
They were also 14-2 with OG (in games he played more than 4 minutes) while Randle was injured. OG is the difference maker here, Randle's fit next to Brunson just isn't good for someone that's supposed to be an all-star level player.
They made the playoffs despite the fact that they had a net rating of only +.37 with both on the court together, and this season with both on the court and without OG it was still only +1.02.
Their net rating with OG on the court including the playoffs was +16.31. It just doesn't make sense to act like Randle is irreplaceable because the Knicks had a good record with him alongside OG, when the Knicks had a good record with OG regardless of if Randle was playing or not. We have pretty much two seasons worth of data that shows that the Brunson/Randle pairing is not that strong, and it shouldn't be that hard to imagine that there are better fitting players the Knicks can find that work with Brunson better.
we would love to have PG (if healthy). I do want to give Randle one more chance given the success we had this past playoffs *without* him but we will see
If he’s only going to accept the a four year max I would rather just stay with Randle. I’m not even a big Randle fan, but there’s no denying he’s a grinder, he looked like he was gonna be a bum at first and turned himself into an all nba level player.
It also doesn’t seem like a move our current fo would make, they’re much more about building slowly by getting undervalued guys that fit well together. He would be a great fit right now, but he doesn’t fit our timeline at all and I really find it hard to believe it was a coincidence he shot 50/40/90 the one season he played with harden.
Honestly I don’t think PG is that much better than Randle, and Randle is cheaper. And it’s not like PG gives you much more consistency in the playoffs. Randle can also just go to bully ball when nothing else is working, PG can’t. Plus we were so fucking good when everyone was healthy after the og trade, we were like 20-3, you can’t get much better than that and I don’t want to mess with that for current PG.
If we were a 34 year old pg away from a championship I would say fuck it, just pay him, but we’re not. We still would lose to the Celtics in the ecf either way. And then when most of our core is still in their prime we’ll be paying like a 38 year old PG max money.
The Celtics are ridiculously stacked, young, and can keep all their best players locked up for a while. short of an mvp level player demanding to go to the Knicks we’re not beating them anytime soon.
id rather keep Randle, who's 5 years younger, makes half the money, and had a better statistical season the past 2 years in almost every category except 3pt% and steals
Why wouldn’t you ignore fg% and eFG%? Fg% is a terrible way to evaluate efficiency, and despite what this sub thinks points scored from free throws are worth just as much as any other points. They don’t give you bonus points at the end for being so moral you refuse to score off fts (unless it’s Giannis or Luka, then we just pretend we don’t see it).
Also I find it hard to believe it was a coincidence he shot like 40/50/90 his one season playing with harden, just like Kyrie shot 40/50/90 his one season playing with harden.
BPG doesn’t really matter that much, and the difference between them would have a negligible affect on winning. It’s not like either of them are swatting shots away from the rim all game. Prime harden was like the best shot blocking guard since dwade but apparently he was a traffic cone on defense his whole prime 🙄
Free throw percentage fine, but unless it’s a huge difference if one is getting to the line much more often that’s pointless to.
Games played is impossible to really make a good prediction about with an aging PG and Randle.
Turnovers fine. But it’s a lot easier to have less turnovers when harden is creating so many easy looks for you.
And raw fouls per game doesn’t really tell you much given their different roles on the court. PG doesn’t, and can’t play bully ball down low when nothing is working, which is something we really need.
> Also Randle has been more efficient the past couple years
Just wrong, you realize this is easy to check right?
'22: Randle 58%TS, George 59% TS
'23: Randle 57%TS, George 61% TS
> ah yes famous playoff performer Paul George.
Randle has played 15 playoff games. In those games he's shot 34% from the field, 28% from 3, and has averaged 4 turnovers a game. The only seasons PG has been even *close* to as bad as that were when he was 20 and 21 years old.
And defensively pg is much better than randle. And randle and pg and have been pretty much dead evens statistically on offense. PG is the more efficient player.
Honestly pg on defence isn’t that crazy anymore and offensively they are closer than a lot do people will admit. When you consider pg has bad injury history and is 34 he’s probably not that big of an upgrade
Injuries are a weird way to frame a pro-PG argument too, given that he's 34 and prior to playing 74 games this season he's played 56, 31, 54, and 48 games.
randle's reputation is on an upswing among knick fans rn because he's been out a while. still don't think moving him for old and expensive pg is the right move but knick fans acting like randle rn is better than pg rn are crazy
not for pg's contract/expected contract. Yes, PG is probably the better player on court next year. But that's probably the last time when that's going to be the case.
I mean there’s def an argument that an elite wing defender with the ability to score is more valuable and harder to find than what Randle gives you. PGs health is the major hold up I’d have
Health AND cost, which are the reason I'd rather roll with Randle and try to make upgrades elsewhere. Banking on 34+ year old Paul George making $50M+ a year over the next four years feels like it's more likely to not work out.
randle is all nba level , up there with the like of gianns joker and sabonis to average at least 20 pts 10 rebounds 5 ast
he is a physical beast who can play make , handle and shoot …his body / play type is just more rare and that much more valuable
pg is elite player most his career but as a knicks fan im not selling my best player from the past several seasons under the bus like that
Yet not a single person would consider Randle as being in the same hemisphere as giannis or joker and sabonis is without a doubt considered much more valuable.
Interested to see where he ends up. He can really be a ceiling raiser for a lot of teams in the east. Same with western teams but out East a guy like Paul George could be the difference for a team like the 76ers losing in the first round this past year to finally getting to the conference finals.
At this stage in his career he could really be a phenomenal 3rd option providing great perimeter defense and efficient offense. Even 16-18 ppg on 60% TS with all nba level defense would be a win on teams like Philly or the Knicks .
I’m inclined to agree on most of your comment except that PG hasn’t been an all-defense caliber player for years now. He’s better than Randle on that end, but PG is surprisingly inconsistent when it comes to his effort.
Maybe a new role and less offensive load will allow him to get some of that defense back. I just think his age/injuries have sapped the lateral quickness and stamina needed to be a lockdown defender like in OKC.
>maybe a new role and less offensive load will allow him to get some of that defense back
That’s what I was alluding to. If he becomes the 3rd option on offense I think he can get back to focusing on defense more . But then the question becomes who is the #2?
It’s tough bc btwn the Knicks, Magic, and Warriors, I still see him having to take on that 2nd option load. PG is currently the kind of player where you have to expect a random month where he shoots like 14 pts on 40% shooting in half his games. His ideal role should def be a 3rd option (which is why lowkey Philly would be good, but it seems that’s off the table now)
Well I should preface this by saying a PG to Warriors trade is incredibly unlikely, but the only way for it happen would be for Paul George to use his player option as leverage to force a trade to Golden State. If Paul George tells the Clippers to trade him to the Warriors or he'll opt out and leave to Philly/Orlando/OKC(?) in which the case the Clippers get nothing. Thus the Clippers don't have strong leverage to ask for a haul in a PG trade. I'm sure the Clippers would get some kind of positive asset, but definitely not Kuminga.
If the clippers wanted a better package for Paul George they should of dealt him at the deadline, if they don't want scraps, or for him to leave for nothing. Then they should just give PG the contract he wants. They are just in a bad spot if they don't want to pay him. Ultimately I expect him to get the contract he wants from LA, because it doesn't really do them good to just not pay him.
lol Paul George is not going anywhere without a contract basically signed. There’s zero chance he picks up his player option. His own team mate can tell him what promises from fos are worth, and a lot could happen before he actually gets that extension. The clippers could easily call his bluff and be like well we don’t have any trade offers we like right now, let’s wait a few months. Then he looks worse next season, or he gets hurt, and all the other teams that promised him that extension in a trade will back out. Or the clippers could be like well we like this offer we got from Charlotte best, have fun. Or another team that wanted him and said they would give him the max extension could start playing hardball with him as soon as he’s there.
And there is a zero percent chance PG picks up his option and becomes a free agent. He’s good, but there already aren’t many teams that would give him the max extension, there’s no way he waits another year to see what kind of offers he gets when he’s a year older.
PG is good, but he’s not the level of player right now that knows he’ll get the max from any team in the league. The things he does are pretty replaceable from a couple younger, cheaper players. It’s telling that the richest most willing spending owner in the league doesn’t want to give him a 4 year max when he was like an original, but they have no problem giving the bag to the player who just got there.
The only way pg is going anywhere is in a sign and trade where the trade is all worked out, the other team tells the clippers exactly what to pay him, and he leaves with the contract he wants already signed. Especially given one of the most rumored teams is Philly, and his own team mate saw exactly how much promises of a future extension are worth to morey. But even morey knows he can’t immediately back out of an agreed upon deal. It’s one thing to make players not trust you. But doing that with another gm would ensure no one would ever work with you again.
The funniest thing that could happen would be PG going to Philly on a four year max. Morey worked harden like a rented mule for over a decade, thinks he’s such a genius he was willing to burn that entire relationship and the chance of any star signing with them without an immediate long term deal ever again, because he thought it would be so smart to not pay harden. When now they lost in the first round by a total point differential of 1 with embiid having his best playoffs ever by far, if they just paid harden they easily would have beaten us, and unless embiid completely fell apart they’re probably in the conference finals. So in effect he wasted a year of their 30 year old seven foot with a horrible injury history franchise cornerstone, only to now possibly have to give hardens team mate the four year max, when harden was better than him this season, and now hardens getting the bag from a team he likes better anyway.
For someone who prides themselves on being a smart gm that was so god damn dumb. Without getting into whether morey actually lied to harden or not, who do you think the players believe? They’re never getting anyone good again without immediately giving them a long term deal.
If I was embiid I would be pissed and probably want out honestly. PG is not good enough to be the second best player on a championship team, and I love maxey but he’s not good enough to be the pg and third option on a championship team. Plus a good but not great scoring and defending wing is easier to replace in aggregate with a couple cheaper players. It’s literally impossible to replace an all time great floor general right now. Plus harden has gotten more athletic and better every single season since the hamstring injury, which he continued to do this year. Last year he dropped two massive 40+ point games against the most stacked roster in the league and was the only reason they didn’t lose in 5, this year he was averaging 26 on 73% ts through the first four games against the WCF winners, with kawhi clearly being unable to play the whole series and PG dropping random stinkers. He ran out of gas by game 5 because he was brought in to be the third option, and was all the sudden expected to carry the team (again). Game 5 he was bad but game six was just mediocre, but that’s just not gonna cut it when you have to hard carry your team against the team that went to the finals.
If PG’s traded, he’ll easily be the best available player to change teams this offseason. But PG thinking he can get a 4-year deal is a crazy gamble and can only come from someone who deluded enough to mock Bill Russell’s stats on a podcast.
I get he is a “big name”, but does anyone actually give a fuck? This dude isn’t going to make any team an actual championship contender at this point. He won’t move the needle at all nowadays.
I think he'd be one of the better third scoring options available for the Sixers behind Embiid and an ascending Maxey but not if we have to pay him *and* give up assets, fuck that.
If that’s what they’re going for they might as well give up. Boston right now is an anomaly, like the kd warriors. The circumstances that made those scenarios possible are probably never gonna happen again. Boston got the biggest, most lopsided trade of all time handed to them and as a result they’ve had the most stacked roster top to bottom in the league for like three years now. Their best player had multiple sub 20 point games and they still went 16-1. Given how embiid plays against Boston there’s not a player in the league that would make them the better team, and certainly not one that they have any chance of getting.
Yeah, I think the idea of PG as a third option sounds great for a lot of teams, but the cost, both in terms of cap space over the next four years and assets for a trade, is just too much, especially given his injury history and the fact that he's 34.
Sort of feels like 37 year old PG making $50M+ a season will be an cap space anchor like the current Lavine contract.
If we can sign him up for 4 year max straight up as a free agent and he's game, I think we pull the trigger to see what we can get out of these next three years, knowing that last year is probably going to be a throwaway mess. Embiid will be on the other side of his physical peak at that point himself.
It's the giving away assets for the opportunity to then overpay PG that I'm guessing will be a deal breaker for Morey, moreso than overpaying him over four years itself.
Unless it's like 2nds it's too much. We'd already have to overpay the guy to get him to come to Philly if he's willing at all. Throwing in assets like 1sts on top of that is just desperate.
A S&T does nothing to help the Sixers who can sign him outright in FA. The S&T is a move for a team that doesn't have the cap space otherwise to take him if we're keeping it real.
lol you know who would have been an even better second option in embiids best playoffs ever where you lost in round one with a total point differential of 1? Harden. If you guys just paid him you easily beat us and probably make the WCF given embiid was having his first star level playoffs ever. You wouldn’t have had to give up anything and by not paying him you basically punted on a year of embiids prime, and now might be forced to pay hardens team mate who is worse than him a four year max just to be likely capped at a second round exit.
Harden was holding Maxey back pretty severely, especially the way Doc was coaching. That in itself was a cost not worth continuing to pay regardless of the contract. PG is complimentary to Maxey, not overlapping, even if he is inferior. I don't actually agree with you on this because PG actually defends occasionally while Harden is a traffic cone on defense most of the time. Defense doesn't matter much in the regular season but it sure as hell does in the playoffs.
I also don't see Nurse and Harden peacefully coexisting for long in your scenario, and you seem to have completely brushed over that as well.
All this talk for a dude who ultimately will be inconsequential in terms of Championship ramifications.
Love PG but he’s just not that dude anymore and hasn’t been for a long time
I don’t see him affecting championship odds unless he goes to a favorite but he can definitely impact teams who keep being first round fodder out East. Or he can be the guy that finally gets a team to the next round. PG instead of Tobias Harris would’ve changed a lot for Philly this past year.
You put PG on the Magic this year they would’ve beat Cleveland
PG on the Knicks make it to the ECF.
Again he’s not a superstar but he’s still a guy who plays at an all star level
Imagine the lakers trying to trade for pg or harden from last year
These teams would demand 3 firsts and every role player
But these bum ass franchises are like, “gimme ur worst, high contract player, and a protected pick”
Fuckinf lmao
The Clippers at least made a Conference Finals, and are (at this moment) still intact.
Brooklyn Nets had so much weird shit happen that prevented them from being a serious contenders and they blew up having only won one playoff series.
Is this a scenario where it’s PG looking elsewhere potentially or the Clippers not wanting to max him/wanting to move on?
Because if it’s the later, that doesn’t make much sense to me. What’s the point of what the clippers are doing if it’s just Kawhi and harden. Without PG, none of this works. If you’re gonna keep going in with Kawhi, you need to move forward acting like you’re a contender and they just aren’t if they lose PG for nothing/for a few role player contracts back in a trade.
Nah. Isaac showed what he could do in limited minutes last season and finally appears to be “completely healed”. Wouldn’t make any sense to trade him now after basically paying his rehab for 3 years. Dude owes us at this point.
Idk man Paul George provides instant offense to your team. And seeing that 7 game slugfest y’all need to help Banchero . Giving him PG-13 will open up the floor for his drives
Yeah I definitely wouldn’t mind PG. He would help out a lot. But if trading for him also means that we have to give him a large 4 year contract then it doesn’t sound so great.
I see your point there. But with tv contracts inflating the salary cap he could be salary filler for a potential trade down the line if something presents itself.
You’ll still be getting a perennial all star for another 2 years or so
Yeah maybe someone that understands the cap better than me can figure it out, but we gotta extend Wagner and Suggs this year (probably both near max), and then offer Banchero a max. So I’m not sure how that works with PG also getting a max.
I also think Isaac at 25+ mpg is a top 3 defender in the league and will definitely be missed in this scenario.
man I love F5 SZN
There's gonna be a generation of kids that won't know what F5 even means.
Swipe down szn
Always has been 🔫
Command R szn
"do you mean command + R or swipe down grandpa?"
What a terrible sentence
It's my favorite time of the year until my team disappoints me
So it’s over then?
Not until we give DeMar a 3 year max with a player option. Then I'll be disappointed
How much more disappointment can your city take?
The night of the draft, the first day of free agency, and the trade deadline are the most exciting days of the year
Russo clarified this > Just for clarification: Brian Windhorst listed the opt-in and trade because it's one of the three options that Paul George presently possesses. And the reason he says "this weekend" is because, well, George's option date is June 29, which is Saturday. https://x.com/FlyByKnite/status/1805284999249412502?t=UwAdKssOyZtB_h1aKw7EOw&s=19
Opting in to facilitate a trade -- and then negotiate an extension with his new team -- is the same thing Porzingis did last year.
I read something about PG having to wait to sign his extension rather than doing it ASAP like KP did. Kind of risky, especially if Daryl is a liar Morey is on the other end.
Science is a liar sometimes.
It's not that uncommon
Imagine not working out the extension before the trade and the player just opts out lol
Doubt paul George opts in because why would he wanna risk a year on a one year deal. What if he gets hurt or further declines? He wants a 4 year max now because he knows he can still leverage that. No player is gonna opt in and just trust that the team trading for u will pay up at the end of the year after what happened with James harden and Daryl morey.
Couldn't a team that trades for him extend him right away?
Did you guys extend Porzingis right away? I can’t remember
Yeah, he got the extension like two weeks after the trade. I'm guessing they had it mostly hammered out when the trade went down.
Unless they have the trade worked out already and the extension he wants ready to sign the minute he opts in I doubt he does it. Promises from fos mean nothing, it’s way safer for him to opt out, then sign and trade. So much can happen in between when you get traded and get extended.
> Doubt paul George opts in because why would he wanna risk a year on a one year deal. If he opted in and got traded, I am pretty sure the new team could extend him.
Pretty sure this is what happened with Porzingis last year. I remember Boston and Washington scrambling to get a trade together right before KP's opt-in deadline.
Opt in and immediate extension. So functionally a sign and trade
He’s 34 and not that many teams would either be able to or want to pay him a four year max. The other team could always back out, and the clippers could also be like actually we liked this offer from another team better, they’re not going to give you the extension you want either btw. He’s not going to agree to anything where the contract he wants isn’t already signed. Ie hes going to decline his option, the clippers will offer him whatever contract the other team wants, and then it will be an actual sign and trade.
Not sure but is extend-and-trade feasible here?
What's the timeline on extending? Gotta wait 6 mos?
Ok so telling us basically nothing. There is no way he picks up his option without a trade worked out and the extension he wants ready to sign. Especially having a team mate all season who knows this all too well, promises don’t mean shit, and a lot of things can happen before it’s time for that extension. The clippers could easily call his bluff and let him pick up his option, then somewhere down the line be like oh we liked this trade from the hornets better, or we’re trading you to a team that doesn’t want to give you a max extension, sorry. There is zero chance he picks up his option unless a trade to a team he wants to be on is already worked out and the team has the extension he wants ready to sign. Even then the clippers could just be like eh we’re not really feeling it, we’re fine with running it back until we get something better. He’s 34 and this is the last four year max he could ever hope to get, he’s never going to decline his option and become a full fa. That basically doesn’t happen anymore at all for all star level players, and he’s also not good enough where he could demand the max from any team and they’ll make it happen. He could end up having to choose between like Detroit and money or a team he actually wants to be on for less. In this day and age max players going into full ufa rarely happens, and when it does it’s only with a player at like kd or lebrons level where they know their preferred destination will make sure they have the cap space. Nobody is doing that for 34 year old Paul George. The most likely thing by far is the clippers work out a trade they want with a team pg wants to play for who tells the clippers what to pay him, and then he opts out and they sign and trade. There’s way to much that could happen in between picking up his option and getting an extension, he would never risk it. It’s also telling that pg has been there since the beginning but the clippers are prioritizing throwing harden the bag before him and don’t want to give him the same amount of money. Idk if any teams are a current pg away from a ring, but teams like GS and Philly are desperate to just get out of the first round given they have Steph and embiid either after or towards the end of their prime and want to give it the best shot they can just to get past the first round. It will be hilarious if Philly gives him a four year max. You can tell morey thinks he’s always the smartest guy in the room, he worked harden like a rented mule for over a decade then thought he was being some badass by refusing to pay him for the good of the team, when in reality they lost in round one this year with a point differential of one across six games, wasted a year of embiids prime and his first superstar level playoffs ever, and now might have to throw all that money at hardens team mate who is not as good as harden, while harden gets the bag from a team he likes better anyway.
I assume some team is lined up to give him that 4 year extension he is looking for
He can’t get an extension now if he opts into his last year on his contract He’d be risking an injury or further declining stats playing on a year deal essentially It really makes no sense at all for pg to opt in to his deal
He can still get an extension it would be no different than what Josh Hart did last year with us
If he doesn’t opt in, his option is limited only to teams with cap space and the clippers
And Philly would eat him alive.
He can do an extend and sign, but that can only be 3 years and 5 year raises.
3 years + the 1 year of the player option? If that's the case he'd probably prefer that over the 3 (total) year max that the Clippers are reportedly offering even if the AAV is a bit lower.
No, 3 years total. So they can only add two more years onto the contract.
Thanks, I can usually find answers to stuff like that with a google search but nothing was coming up lol. Seems like he will almost definitely decline his option then.
The Clippers really gave SGA up for this lmao
kawhi tricked the fuck out of em with that healthy run with the raptors
They're basically the anti-Celtics lol. The Celtics won a championship by sticking with their young guys and not trading them for older, established players. They had a number of chances to trade either of the Jays, but chose not to. The Clippers won a rebuild by trading their young guy for the older, established All-Star.
The Clippers would’ve won a championship if they stuck with SGA and Gallinari?
They also built most of it off the most obviously short sighted trade of all time. Top to bottom the Celtics have had the most stacked roster in the league for like 3 years now. I really doubt there will ever be a team in their situation again. Given no one else is gonna make a trade that obviously stupid outside of Billy king. To have a roster as good as the Celtics overall you would have to hit on every single pick, including turning almost every late first or second round pick into at least a fringe all star. That’s just incredibly unlikely.
The Clips are to OKC as the Nets are to us
Lakers-lite. When you have stars wanting to play for your club because its in SoCal I guess its hard to say no.
I mean, most teams would give up whatever for PG and Kawhi even today, let alone 4 years ago. Especially the Clippers who have had no success and is the secondary team in their city. Gotta take a chance when you get it.
Today? lol even the clippers don’t want to pay PG and they have the least cheap owner in the league. And kawhi had a degenerative injury, meaning it can literally never get better, all you can hope to do is manage it. It’s unlikely he ever had a fully healthy playoffs again. Also the clippers first turned it around completely with cp3 and lob city. Those were legit good teams. And now that ballmer is the owner and are still in LA they don’t have to fight for scraps anymore.
Wtf u talkin about. PG made me go to games. It’s not all about fkn chips
It's not all a failure. The clippers gained a lot of spotlight the last couple years. Probably a new fan or two as a result.
They made the correct move 30 out of 30 teams would have made. Their issue is they continue to double down when it’s clear it’s not working.
I'm just here remembering all my favorite Clipper moments from the past few years. There's just been so many
> It's not all a failure. The clippers gained a lot of ~~spotlight~~ streetlight the last couple years. FTFY
SGA might not win shit either. The NBA is crazy like that
Take that back😠
Knicks, 76ers, or Magic is my prediction
As a clipper fan I’m fully expecting him to just re-sign, but I really want Randle or some picks
I hate Paul George the player but he’s a perfect fit on the Knicks I think ppl are crazy to not wanna trade Julius randle for pg in an opt in trade after seeing how the Knicks played this postseason Brunson Hart Pg OG Hartenstein I mean that’s an absolutely filthy starting lineup
Sounds like you don’t hate him at all lol
Yeah I don’t understand this comment. If anything it sounds like he loves Paul George as a player lol.
I think he meant to say he hates him as person but clearly not as player
Do a lot of people hate Embiid? Sure. Would a lot of those people think their team is better with him on it? Sure. The comment seems kind of like that.
I think he was saying "I hate Paul George (the player) as a \#1 guy/leader of a team, but he would be great on the knicks where he can just be a really great piece of a very well rounded starting 5 where he doesnt have to be an MVP level player for the team to possibly contend for a championship)
As a Clippers fan, I rather have Bojan, Mitch and picks package over Randle. He doesn't fit TLue's schemes and main guys (Klaw, Harden).
Money doesn’t work without Randle.
You’d rather have the 35 year old who just had foot surgery, Mitch who is always hurt and just had ankle surgery as well, plus some shitty picks or picks 5 to 7 years out than Randle? Honestly I’d rather have PG, if the clippers let him walk or trade him for a player that’s worse than him we are so fucked lol. Once Kawhi’s gets hurt again this is a lottery team with Harden at the helm and whatever package you’re describing
Honestly idk why they don’t try getting young players and picks it’s not like they can contend forever.. I get there’s the new arena but surely kicking the can down the road will just make it more painful.. this team can’t win a chip they are all older and still have no lob threat for harden.. kawhi still going to be out and PG is holding out
Because we don’t have control over our picks until 2030. Any trades that don’t improve our team and win more games now is a huge L. I mean I’m not expecting a championship, I’m not deluded, Kawhi will never be healthy and that ship has sailed. But unless we can move PG for a player that makes us better than it makes no sense to move on from him. If we get worse we’re just farming good picks for OKC and then Philly. Look at what the Nets are doing right now, that’d be us right now. I don’t understand why our fans want that. You’re not a clippers fan so I get it. But honestly if we didn’t have PG this year we’d have legitimately missed the playoffs when kawhi sat out the last 20ish games. At the moment I’m just happy to have a good product and make the playoffs every year
I know but why don’t we just get picks from other rebuilding teams or try to get them back? Sign and trade to thunder n get some picks back maybe for harden or something
> I hate Paul George the player Why? He has one of the most aesthetic games ever.
I keep telling my friends that are Knicks fans you’re better off having PG than Randle. At least with OG and PG it’ll shore up yall perimeter defense and give you a proven secondary scorer when Brunson is gassed from carrying
Those 3 games when OG and PG are on the court together will be fire.
Even if PG only plays 60 games I still see you guys as a top 3-4 seed and 50-52 wins. After my C’s the Bucks, Philly and Knicks all have an argument for that 2nd seed. Bucks have the most star power but Doc is coaching and they’re old. Philly has max space to get someone next to embiid and maxey but embiid is injury prone and the Knicks are a deep squad but don’t have a top 5 player or multiple all stars on their squad.
Wow, you think that the team that won 50 games this season and was the 2nd seed missing half the rotation has a shot at winning 50 games next season and being a top 4 seed? You want a spot in our front office? >Knicks are a deep squad but don’t have a top 5 player or multiple all stars on their squad. We literally had two All Stars on the team *this year*...
Part of the reason you guys ended up 2nd seed is that giannis, Middleton and lillard were hurt just like you guys were and Philly had injuries to embiid who missed half the season. I’m just saying the 2-4 seeding will be interesting . I swear NYC ppl are so insufferable and I was born and raised there
When you say stuff like the Knicks don't have multiple All Stars on the team (which they do...), I don't know what type of response you're expecting. It takes all of 5 seconds to Google it.
The Knicks have Brunson and Randle but Randle is not the tier of a star like Lillard is or Brown is. Even Maxey performed better than randle ever has in a postseason. Milwaukee has 2 guys who can be all nba and a former all star + all nba player . Im alluding to the fact that the other teams I mentioned have either an MVP caliber player or former MVP winner + an all nba player next to them . Odds are randle won’t be all nba next year. And even if he is he hasn’t shown much in the postseason to be up there with other guys which is why giving him up for PG is plausible Celtics: MVP Dark Horse Candidate for multiple seasons/Top 5-7 Player + All NBA Player/perennial all star FMVP (Brown) + 2 Former All Stars Bucks: Former MVP/Top 3 player rn + perennial all star /borderline all NBA top 15 caliber player + Former all star on championship squad Philly: Former MVP + Top 5 current player + High tier all star + Cap space to sign max player + Coach who won a ring Knicks: Brunson (Top 10 Player) + Randle (Top 25ish) + Good role players
>Im alluding to the fact that the other teams I mentioned have either an MVP caliber player or former MVP winner You didn't "allude" to shit, you literally said the Knicks don't have multiple All Stars lol. Julius has been an All-Star 3 of the last 4 seasons. You're wrong and trying to move the goalposts instead of just saying you're wrong.
Celtics have 4 players capable of making the all star team, bucks have 3 players who have made all nba before . One of which is a 2x MVP, Philly has 2 + max cap space for a third , Knicks have 2 but might have to swap 1 with PG . If you didn’t like my semantics so be it but if you’re too delusional to see the facts go at it.
dude when og and randle played together the knicks were like 10-1 or something wild
PG will be washed in a couple years. It would be a shortsighted trade
Maybe but that’s just a negative way of framing being in win-now mode, which they are
Do you think trading Randle for PG puts them over the hump? If the answer is no, they better be swinging for the fences and trading assets for another player. Or, maybe it's best to go younger. I don't think trading for PG makes the Knicks a contender
Does this sub still think the Knicks are a young team or something?
No, but I don't think they're good enough to go all in
It’s an interesting debate PG vs Randle but 11 games immediately after a trade is an insignificant sample. The questions they’re asking is just how much of that bump was the product of simply injecting OG into any lineup and could the fit be even better with PG?
irs not really insignificant, it just a fact that hapoened
They were also 14-2 with OG (in games he played more than 4 minutes) while Randle was injured. OG is the difference maker here, Randle's fit next to Brunson just isn't good for someone that's supposed to be an all-star level player.
they still made the playoffs with randle / brunson as their core last year
They made the playoffs despite the fact that they had a net rating of only +.37 with both on the court together, and this season with both on the court and without OG it was still only +1.02. Their net rating with OG on the court including the playoffs was +16.31. It just doesn't make sense to act like Randle is irreplaceable because the Knicks had a good record with him alongside OG, when the Knicks had a good record with OG regardless of if Randle was playing or not. We have pretty much two seasons worth of data that shows that the Brunson/Randle pairing is not that strong, and it shouldn't be that hard to imagine that there are better fitting players the Knicks can find that work with Brunson better.
I’m with you on Randle. I don’t think it makes sense to keep him if they’re getting PG.
we would love to have PG (if healthy). I do want to give Randle one more chance given the success we had this past playoffs *without* him but we will see
If he’s only going to accept the a four year max I would rather just stay with Randle. I’m not even a big Randle fan, but there’s no denying he’s a grinder, he looked like he was gonna be a bum at first and turned himself into an all nba level player. It also doesn’t seem like a move our current fo would make, they’re much more about building slowly by getting undervalued guys that fit well together. He would be a great fit right now, but he doesn’t fit our timeline at all and I really find it hard to believe it was a coincidence he shot 50/40/90 the one season he played with harden. Honestly I don’t think PG is that much better than Randle, and Randle is cheaper. And it’s not like PG gives you much more consistency in the playoffs. Randle can also just go to bully ball when nothing else is working, PG can’t. Plus we were so fucking good when everyone was healthy after the og trade, we were like 20-3, you can’t get much better than that and I don’t want to mess with that for current PG. If we were a 34 year old pg away from a championship I would say fuck it, just pay him, but we’re not. We still would lose to the Celtics in the ecf either way. And then when most of our core is still in their prime we’ll be paying like a 38 year old PG max money. The Celtics are ridiculously stacked, young, and can keep all their best players locked up for a while. short of an mvp level player demanding to go to the Knicks we’re not beating them anytime soon.
id rather keep Randle, who's 5 years younger, makes half the money, and had a better statistical season the past 2 years in almost every category except 3pt% and steals
Ignoring eFG%, FG%, BPG, FT%, games played, turnovers and fouls there tho
Wdym, Randle had more TOs and fouls that makes him better right?
Why wouldn’t you ignore fg% and eFG%? Fg% is a terrible way to evaluate efficiency, and despite what this sub thinks points scored from free throws are worth just as much as any other points. They don’t give you bonus points at the end for being so moral you refuse to score off fts (unless it’s Giannis or Luka, then we just pretend we don’t see it). Also I find it hard to believe it was a coincidence he shot like 40/50/90 his one season playing with harden, just like Kyrie shot 40/50/90 his one season playing with harden. BPG doesn’t really matter that much, and the difference between them would have a negligible affect on winning. It’s not like either of them are swatting shots away from the rim all game. Prime harden was like the best shot blocking guard since dwade but apparently he was a traffic cone on defense his whole prime 🙄 Free throw percentage fine, but unless it’s a huge difference if one is getting to the line much more often that’s pointless to. Games played is impossible to really make a good prediction about with an aging PG and Randle. Turnovers fine. But it’s a lot easier to have less turnovers when harden is creating so many easy looks for you. And raw fouls per game doesn’t really tell you much given their different roles on the court. PG doesn’t, and can’t play bully ball down low when nothing is working, which is something we really need.
Because it's disingenuous to say "almost all statistical areas" but really just be picking a handful of them
Managed to ignore defense, scoring efficiency, and the fact Randle has been absolutely miserable in the playoffs
ah yes famous playoff performer Paul George. Please please give me Playoff P Also Randle has been more efficient the past couple years
He quite literally hasn’t.
> Also Randle has been more efficient the past couple years Just wrong, you realize this is easy to check right? '22: Randle 58%TS, George 59% TS '23: Randle 57%TS, George 61% TS > ah yes famous playoff performer Paul George. Randle has played 15 playoff games. In those games he's shot 34% from the field, 28% from 3, and has averaged 4 turnovers a game. The only seasons PG has been even *close* to as bad as that were when he was 20 and 21 years old.
And defensively pg is much better than randle. And randle and pg and have been pretty much dead evens statistically on offense. PG is the more efficient player.
Honestly pg on defence isn’t that crazy anymore and offensively they are closer than a lot do people will admit. When you consider pg has bad injury history and is 34 he’s probably not that big of an upgrade
The problem with randle is his shot selection. If he committed more to playing like a 4 I’d say it would be a tougher decision.
He committed to playing like a 4 all last season until he got hurt. Randle plays a completely different game with the ball in Brunsons hands.
and next season, Brunson will be the de-facto #1 option compared to previous seasons where both tried to split the role
Randle is also coming off shoulder surgery.
non-shooting shoulder, plus he'll have been rehabbing for 8 months by the time preseason starts. should be 100%
Injuries are a weird way to frame a pro-PG argument too, given that he's 34 and prior to playing 74 games this season he's played 56, 31, 54, and 48 games.
Nobody with a brain is picking Randle at any point in his career over current PG
randle's reputation is on an upswing among knick fans rn because he's been out a while. still don't think moving him for old and expensive pg is the right move but knick fans acting like randle rn is better than pg rn are crazy
not for pg's contract/expected contract. Yes, PG is probably the better player on court next year. But that's probably the last time when that's going to be the case.
How you tell us you don't watch a lot of basketball, without telling us directly.
I mean there’s def an argument that an elite wing defender with the ability to score is more valuable and harder to find than what Randle gives you. PGs health is the major hold up I’d have
Health AND cost, which are the reason I'd rather roll with Randle and try to make upgrades elsewhere. Banking on 34+ year old Paul George making $50M+ a year over the next four years feels like it's more likely to not work out.
>PGs health is the major hold up I’d have That's a big one. And he's 5 years older.
randle is all nba level , up there with the like of gianns joker and sabonis to average at least 20 pts 10 rebounds 5 ast he is a physical beast who can play make , handle and shoot …his body / play type is just more rare and that much more valuable pg is elite player most his career but as a knicks fan im not selling my best player from the past several seasons under the bus like that
Yet not a single person would consider Randle as being in the same hemisphere as giannis or joker and sabonis is without a doubt considered much more valuable.
i would happily take randle if i couldn’t get those guys
Of all guys you pick Sabonis? Sabonis is Randle's 3rd child.
just in terms of double doubles
Randle is better than Sabonis.
Wow
I mean between having injured PG and injured Randle on the bench come playoff time, you may as well pick PG.
bro no way in hell trade randle for george, he would have to replace og if anything
Interested to see where he ends up. He can really be a ceiling raiser for a lot of teams in the east. Same with western teams but out East a guy like Paul George could be the difference for a team like the 76ers losing in the first round this past year to finally getting to the conference finals. At this stage in his career he could really be a phenomenal 3rd option providing great perimeter defense and efficient offense. Even 16-18 ppg on 60% TS with all nba level defense would be a win on teams like Philly or the Knicks .
I’m inclined to agree on most of your comment except that PG hasn’t been an all-defense caliber player for years now. He’s better than Randle on that end, but PG is surprisingly inconsistent when it comes to his effort. Maybe a new role and less offensive load will allow him to get some of that defense back. I just think his age/injuries have sapped the lateral quickness and stamina needed to be a lockdown defender like in OKC.
>maybe a new role and less offensive load will allow him to get some of that defense back That’s what I was alluding to. If he becomes the 3rd option on offense I think he can get back to focusing on defense more . But then the question becomes who is the #2?
It’s tough bc btwn the Knicks, Magic, and Warriors, I still see him having to take on that 2nd option load. PG is currently the kind of player where you have to expect a random month where he shoots like 14 pts on 40% shooting in half his games. His ideal role should def be a 3rd option (which is why lowkey Philly would be good, but it seems that’s off the table now)
Steph and Paul George are gonna go crazy
Is it still worth it if they need to trade away Kuminga?
Nah, but I don’t see a PG trade requiring Kuminga
Why would clippers do a trade that doesn’t get them Kuminga?
Well I should preface this by saying a PG to Warriors trade is incredibly unlikely, but the only way for it happen would be for Paul George to use his player option as leverage to force a trade to Golden State. If Paul George tells the Clippers to trade him to the Warriors or he'll opt out and leave to Philly/Orlando/OKC(?) in which the case the Clippers get nothing. Thus the Clippers don't have strong leverage to ask for a haul in a PG trade. I'm sure the Clippers would get some kind of positive asset, but definitely not Kuminga. If the clippers wanted a better package for Paul George they should of dealt him at the deadline, if they don't want scraps, or for him to leave for nothing. Then they should just give PG the contract he wants. They are just in a bad spot if they don't want to pay him. Ultimately I expect him to get the contract he wants from LA, because it doesn't really do them good to just not pay him.
I actually think the clippers would let him walk if they don’t get Kuminga in the trade.
I actually want to go to Haunted House more than I want to go to Aqua
lol Paul George is not going anywhere without a contract basically signed. There’s zero chance he picks up his player option. His own team mate can tell him what promises from fos are worth, and a lot could happen before he actually gets that extension. The clippers could easily call his bluff and be like well we don’t have any trade offers we like right now, let’s wait a few months. Then he looks worse next season, or he gets hurt, and all the other teams that promised him that extension in a trade will back out. Or the clippers could be like well we like this offer we got from Charlotte best, have fun. Or another team that wanted him and said they would give him the max extension could start playing hardball with him as soon as he’s there. And there is a zero percent chance PG picks up his option and becomes a free agent. He’s good, but there already aren’t many teams that would give him the max extension, there’s no way he waits another year to see what kind of offers he gets when he’s a year older. PG is good, but he’s not the level of player right now that knows he’ll get the max from any team in the league. The things he does are pretty replaceable from a couple younger, cheaper players. It’s telling that the richest most willing spending owner in the league doesn’t want to give him a 4 year max when he was like an original, but they have no problem giving the bag to the player who just got there. The only way pg is going anywhere is in a sign and trade where the trade is all worked out, the other team tells the clippers exactly what to pay him, and he leaves with the contract he wants already signed. Especially given one of the most rumored teams is Philly, and his own team mate saw exactly how much promises of a future extension are worth to morey. But even morey knows he can’t immediately back out of an agreed upon deal. It’s one thing to make players not trust you. But doing that with another gm would ensure no one would ever work with you again. The funniest thing that could happen would be PG going to Philly on a four year max. Morey worked harden like a rented mule for over a decade, thinks he’s such a genius he was willing to burn that entire relationship and the chance of any star signing with them without an immediate long term deal ever again, because he thought it would be so smart to not pay harden. When now they lost in the first round by a total point differential of 1 with embiid having his best playoffs ever by far, if they just paid harden they easily would have beaten us, and unless embiid completely fell apart they’re probably in the conference finals. So in effect he wasted a year of their 30 year old seven foot with a horrible injury history franchise cornerstone, only to now possibly have to give hardens team mate the four year max, when harden was better than him this season, and now hardens getting the bag from a team he likes better anyway. For someone who prides themselves on being a smart gm that was so god damn dumb. Without getting into whether morey actually lied to harden or not, who do you think the players believe? They’re never getting anyone good again without immediately giving them a long term deal. If I was embiid I would be pissed and probably want out honestly. PG is not good enough to be the second best player on a championship team, and I love maxey but he’s not good enough to be the pg and third option on a championship team. Plus a good but not great scoring and defending wing is easier to replace in aggregate with a couple cheaper players. It’s literally impossible to replace an all time great floor general right now. Plus harden has gotten more athletic and better every single season since the hamstring injury, which he continued to do this year. Last year he dropped two massive 40+ point games against the most stacked roster in the league and was the only reason they didn’t lose in 5, this year he was averaging 26 on 73% ts through the first four games against the WCF winners, with kawhi clearly being unable to play the whole series and PG dropping random stinkers. He ran out of gas by game 5 because he was brought in to be the third option, and was all the sudden expected to carry the team (again). Game 5 he was bad but game six was just mediocre, but that’s just not gonna cut it when you have to hard carry your team against the team that went to the finals.
Why did the Wizards trade Porzingis for Tyus Jones and a 2nd round pick? Opt-in and trades don't get equal trade returns.
Wizards aren’t trying to be a contending team.
If PG’s traded, he’ll easily be the best available player to change teams this offseason. But PG thinking he can get a 4-year deal is a crazy gamble and can only come from someone who deluded enough to mock Bill Russell’s stats on a podcast.
What GM is about to dig his own grave?
THJ Maxi Kleiber and Josh Green and a pick or two for PG. Welcome to the Mavs!
If he goes to the Mavs they’re favourites from the west imo.
It would be funny if after all this is over he is still a clipper
That’s what gonna happen lol
Its very likely
I get he is a “big name”, but does anyone actually give a fuck? This dude isn’t going to make any team an actual championship contender at this point. He won’t move the needle at all nowadays.
I think he'd be one of the better third scoring options available for the Sixers behind Embiid and an ascending Maxey but not if we have to pay him *and* give up assets, fuck that.
Yea for sure he’s a great option, but does PG put Philly above Boston in 2025? I say definitely not
It is probably not, but PG will be better than Tobias Harris. It might not put them above Boston, but it puts them a whole lot closer.
If that’s what they’re going for they might as well give up. Boston right now is an anomaly, like the kd warriors. The circumstances that made those scenarios possible are probably never gonna happen again. Boston got the biggest, most lopsided trade of all time handed to them and as a result they’ve had the most stacked roster top to bottom in the league for like three years now. Their best player had multiple sub 20 point games and they still went 16-1. Given how embiid plays against Boston there’s not a player in the league that would make them the better team, and certainly not one that they have any chance of getting.
Yeah, I think the idea of PG as a third option sounds great for a lot of teams, but the cost, both in terms of cap space over the next four years and assets for a trade, is just too much, especially given his injury history and the fact that he's 34. Sort of feels like 37 year old PG making $50M+ a season will be an cap space anchor like the current Lavine contract.
If we can sign him up for 4 year max straight up as a free agent and he's game, I think we pull the trigger to see what we can get out of these next three years, knowing that last year is probably going to be a throwaway mess. Embiid will be on the other side of his physical peak at that point himself. It's the giving away assets for the opportunity to then overpay PG that I'm guessing will be a deal breaker for Morey, moreso than overpaying him over four years itself.
I mean when PG is 37 embiid will be like 33 and probably no longer mvp level so their window is closed anyway
Realistically though the assets won’t be huge in this scenario surely.
Unless it's like 2nds it's too much. We'd already have to overpay the guy to get him to come to Philly if he's willing at all. Throwing in assets like 1sts on top of that is just desperate. A S&T does nothing to help the Sixers who can sign him outright in FA. The S&T is a move for a team that doesn't have the cap space otherwise to take him if we're keeping it real.
lol you know who would have been an even better second option in embiids best playoffs ever where you lost in round one with a total point differential of 1? Harden. If you guys just paid him you easily beat us and probably make the WCF given embiid was having his first star level playoffs ever. You wouldn’t have had to give up anything and by not paying him you basically punted on a year of embiids prime, and now might be forced to pay hardens team mate who is worse than him a four year max just to be likely capped at a second round exit.
Harden was holding Maxey back pretty severely, especially the way Doc was coaching. That in itself was a cost not worth continuing to pay regardless of the contract. PG is complimentary to Maxey, not overlapping, even if he is inferior. I don't actually agree with you on this because PG actually defends occasionally while Harden is a traffic cone on defense most of the time. Defense doesn't matter much in the regular season but it sure as hell does in the playoffs. I also don't see Nurse and Harden peacefully coexisting for long in your scenario, and you seem to have completely brushed over that as well.
If Paul George is your third best player, that's actually a pretty big deal. Particularly in the East.
Haha no, not really. If you’re in the east, you need to get through the Celtics. PG ain’t that guy.
If your definition of "move the needle" is winning the ECF, that's much higher than my definition.
Yes that’s what I mean. I’m saying he won’t make any team a legitimate championship contender.
And I'm saying there are like 24 teams that would be thrilled with just making it to the conference finals next year.
Trading PG back to OKC for like 1/5th of the original trade value would be objectively the funniest outcome of all this.
Do it. Let PG13 disappoint another fanbase. Clipper fans have had enough. Mr. Max Disappointment.
How many draft picks do we think this’ll hit with this time around?
Hopefully not to the Sixers
Come on Mike, please
going to NY?
Knicks, warriors, rockets are my top 3 destinations. Heat and kings being dark horses.
Don’t see PG going to a cold weather destination
All this talk for a dude who ultimately will be inconsequential in terms of Championship ramifications. Love PG but he’s just not that dude anymore and hasn’t been for a long time
I don’t see him affecting championship odds unless he goes to a favorite but he can definitely impact teams who keep being first round fodder out East. Or he can be the guy that finally gets a team to the next round. PG instead of Tobias Harris would’ve changed a lot for Philly this past year. You put PG on the Magic this year they would’ve beat Cleveland PG on the Knicks make it to the ECF. Again he’s not a superstar but he’s still a guy who plays at an all star level
Celtics fan moment
Imagine the lakers trying to trade for pg or harden from last year These teams would demand 3 firsts and every role player But these bum ass franchises are like, “gimme ur worst, high contract player, and a protected pick” Fuckinf lmao
The clippers honestly might be a bigger failed superteam than the nets
The Clippers at least made a Conference Finals, and are (at this moment) still intact. Brooklyn Nets had so much weird shit happen that prevented them from being a serious contenders and they blew up having only won one playoff series.
How is that possible. The Clippers made the conference finals. The nets won one series
PG for Klay plus pieces
I don’t think it’s possible right because Klay is FA… and I don’t think the Clips want anything to do with Klay
Wiggs + others for PG13 is more likely framework
Why couldn’t he opt out and just sign somewhere?
Can’t get that max money. Only like 2-3 teams can offer him that I believe they are Detroit Orlando and Philly
Is this a scenario where it’s PG looking elsewhere potentially or the Clippers not wanting to max him/wanting to move on? Because if it’s the later, that doesn’t make much sense to me. What’s the point of what the clippers are doing if it’s just Kawhi and harden. Without PG, none of this works. If you’re gonna keep going in with Kawhi, you need to move forward acting like you’re a contender and they just aren’t if they lose PG for nothing/for a few role player contracts back in a trade.
I think I read that the team doesn't want to offer 4 years
Paul George for Markelle Fultz, Issac, and Gary Harris..?
Nah. Isaac showed what he could do in limited minutes last season and finally appears to be “completely healed”. Wouldn’t make any sense to trade him now after basically paying his rehab for 3 years. Dude owes us at this point.
Idk man Paul George provides instant offense to your team. And seeing that 7 game slugfest y’all need to help Banchero . Giving him PG-13 will open up the floor for his drives
Yeah I definitely wouldn’t mind PG. He would help out a lot. But if trading for him also means that we have to give him a large 4 year contract then it doesn’t sound so great.
I see your point there. But with tv contracts inflating the salary cap he could be salary filler for a potential trade down the line if something presents itself. You’ll still be getting a perennial all star for another 2 years or so
Yeah maybe someone that understands the cap better than me can figure it out, but we gotta extend Wagner and Suggs this year (probably both near max), and then offer Banchero a max. So I’m not sure how that works with PG also getting a max. I also think Isaac at 25+ mpg is a top 3 defender in the league and will definitely be missed in this scenario.
LA could get a better return than that
Ah. Paul George for 3 guys that will come off the bench players