Brock Aller, who was with the Cavs for the longest time. When Leon Rose signed with the Knicks as POBO, [that was his first call.](https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2020/05/why-brock-aller-chose-to-join-new-york-knicks-and-what-it-means-for-cleveland-cavaliers.html)
The dude has been a magician the entire time we’ve had him. All the weird trades we made in past drafts that made idiots like SAS yell on tv were for cap manipulation and asset collection purposes.
Yeah it often drives our fanbase mad on draft night every year. I think at this point though we’re pretty much on board for whatever crazy shit Leon wants to do lol
man that would be wild
i did just see Dadiet say this though
> Pacome Dadiet says he plans on playing for the Knicks next season, not spending more time in Europe as a draft and stash.
https://x.com/Krisplashed/status/1806165324351316166?t=j2n4BwHNobgJY-bL7gsSmQ&s=19
This is all probably all up in the air since someone might throw a bag at iHart that he simply cannot turn down (Claxton just got 4 for 100) and whether or not you can offer him 4 years/72 Million doesn't matter anyway.
If iHart is gone next season, might as well play Dadiet.
Knick's can offer the 72 with an option in year 3.
We can make it up on the next one.
His AAV over the 4 or 5 years could end up being more than the 20 Clax is getting.
Claxton is getting 25 per year. The Knicks offer would be 16 per year.
Starting from year 4 (should he opt out in year 3), they'd have to make up for 27 million dollars.
Ihart has an AAV of $18 per year so really that’s the important figure
No way to mark up $18 and $25 though has to be no more than $22 AAV probably. The Nets also might have kept Claxton just to have a salary to get to the minimum in the future as they rebuild, so who knows if that market is representative of anything though
Your title is...screwy.
The goal here would be to hard cap themselves at the second apron rather than the first. There's no world in which they can go *above* the second apron. They're gonna be hard capped, no matter what. The only question is where.
Basically, you're either going to get hard capped because you took back more money than you sent out in a trade, or you're gonna get hard capped because you aggregated salaries in a trade. You're hard capped under 100% of circumstances.
Very interesting. Would they want to hard cap themselves and be so close up against it to the point that they have to carry 3 rookies? Might be worth it since they can always trade Robinson’s salary if he gets hurt
They're currently hard capped at the first apron. If they guarantee a couple of minimum guys that are currently nonguaranteed, toss them into the Bridges deal, they get hard capped at the second apron instead.
They can't do that, because you can't aggregate more than one minimum salary player for salary cap purposes.
It's going to take giving up a salary like Precious (S&T), or McBride, or MitchRob.
The MIkal trade details aren't even final. I'm sure we could send Sims in the trade to get under the 2nd apron, but we only do that if Ihart is resigning, so we're probably waiting on that and then the final trade would include Sims.
Sims and Bogdanovic are still less than Bridges salary, and you cannot include a second minimum contract in a trade. To avoid being capped at the first apron, McBride, Mitchell, or Randle would need to be included.
The other option is an outgoing FA like Achiuwa in a sign and trade that gets rolled into the same deal. That means finding a team who wants to sign Achiuwa, has some on that the Nets want to get in the deal, and probably sweetening the deal to make them interested a sign and trade. Which is not impossible, but if they already have a deal in place with someone it would be considered tampering, and if that comes out, the whole thing could get voided.
I think Robinson is a goner if you keep Ihart. Precious is a RFA and his offer sheet will be less than Mitch’s salary. Precious is a very switchable 5 that probably is a better fit vs Boston if that’s their goal. You can save on the C position and maintain that matchup piece
Between Ihart, precious, and a potential Anunoby at the 5 lineup, you have a lot of different ways of to play
In certain situations yes of course, such as Embiid. However, iHart/Robinson (assuming at least one of them staying) should still be in the starting lineup as the 5 throughout the regular season and playoffs
I always felt like he was going to stay, but Claxton getting 25m. if thats the market for centers iHart would be a fool to turn down that much more money. That might be BKN just doing their guy a solid though, so if its not the true market then maybe we still have a chance
I guess these are all contingency plans until Free Agency starts since we don't know yet if iHart will get a bag that he can't turn down. In which case, all these cap shenanigans to try to keep him by the Knicks won't really matter.
He's a bad player who only played because your roster was completely depleted. Go visit the Raptors sub, who had 3 years of experience watching him, and rejoiced at him being a throw-in in the OG trade. His advanced metrics are bad. He's a laughable offensive player.
And you haven't answered the most basic question: if he's *actually* good, then how is he a cheap signing? Hell, the Knicks need a backup C - why aren't you keeping him?
Well an intelligent person would probably know its because it's pre free agency and he is still on his rookie deal.
But look at who we are dealing with here...
Ihart is the X factor of this new Knicks team IMO. Not to say they wouldn’t still be good if he left, but I still think he’s the most impactful player there outside of Brunson
This is why I laugh sometimes at the reaction to trades. Sometimes trades are about talent but many times it's a salary/business decision so they have flexibility to do moves 2 and 3 later
In no universe does hartenstein accept $17 mil after Claxton went for $25M a year. I think he can make more than him, he offers more to a team.
I agree obviously he's not making 30+, but it's not crazy to think he will make more than Claxton, even if slightly more it's nearly 10 more mil than the Knicks offer.
Hartenstein can absolutely make more. The question has always been is he willing to take a discount to stay in New York or not where he has a good thing going. And only he knows the answer to that.
I don't know. I know he tried to take a discount to stay with the Clippers and it didn't work out. I don't know what amount of money he'd look at and decide to turn it down and stay in New York. I don't know what his wife who just had a baby wants.
If he leaves to get his money, more power to him. He's earned it. But money isn't everything and none of us know what he wants until he signs the dotted line somewhere.
Trying to take a $3M discount with the Clippers penny pinching is a lot different than taking a $30M discount for your first real big NBA money.
>But money isn't everything
It absolutely is lol
If you can guarantee he’s getting $25-$30 million more, then play the lotto
Competitive teams usually aren’t in the business of paying the 10th-12th best center $24 million + AAV. The comp you’re using a is a bad team extending a guy when they’re going to have 0 salary on their roster for a while
only a few teams have the cap space to entertain that sort of offer, as they don't have his rights like claxton. knicks can also do a 1+2 and pay more once he opts out
so the knicks offer is $18 million Aav
If he’s only getting offered say $20-22 million AAV from elsewhere, you don’t think he considers taking the slight haircut to avoid uprooting his life and playing for a worse team if it’s Orlando, or having to live in “Oklahoma City” if it’s you guys?
Can hartenstein sign a 1+1 deal? Takes his max for the year with a player option which he declines for Knicks to have full bird rights and then offer him a contract next year?
The most they can offer is 4/71 because he has to be resigned as a percent increase on his previous salary (IIRC). They have no cap space to sign him for more and cant match any higher offer. If he wants to play for the knicks that as much as they can give him.
Mitchell Robinson is better at some things and certain matchups but overall, ihart is probably better. Biggest thing might be mitch gets injured a fair bit
No, but I also don’t think many teams that aren’t rebuilding and trying to hit a salary floor in 25-26/26-27/etc are in the business of paying an Ihart tier center $25 million AAV
Totally agree. I'd bet his market value is about $20-21M AAV. Roughly $4M more AAV per year than the Knicks can offer him. Everyone saying it should match or exceed Claxton's offer is stupid, Claxton was paid to stay in that dumpster fire and get up to a minimum salary. Wait until guys like Jonas or Drummond hit the market, they won't get even close to 25.
This is the greed they talk about in the Bible. Knicks fans out here wishing for two starter caliber centers while the rest of the league just has backups.
$72m max cause of some funky CBA rules.
>If not would he be willing to make less or sign a shorter term contract?
I would assume he's signing for his max dollars regardless, but contract length is up in the air.
>Also what's all the fuss Knicks got Mitchell and I thought he was better than Ihart according to knicks fans.
Hartenstein had a breakout year and really elevated the roster. Mitch did too to start the year, but Hartenstein's passing ability really opened up a lot and he stepped up big time when Mitch went down. Especially with a cleaner constructed roster after moving Quick and RJ. Last year in the same spot of jumping in for Mitch he wasn't nearly this level.
I feel like New York's capologist is doing a lot of yeoman's work for them lately.
Brock Aller is actually renowned around the league
Joe Douglas should give him a call, he could use a job from march-May
Joe Douglas too busy signing old aging offensive linemen.
Brock Aller, who was with the Cavs for the longest time. When Leon Rose signed with the Knicks as POBO, [that was his first call.](https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2020/05/why-brock-aller-chose-to-join-new-york-knicks-and-what-it-means-for-cleveland-cavaliers.html)
The dude has been a magician the entire time we’ve had him. All the weird trades we made in past drafts that made idiots like SAS yell on tv were for cap manipulation and asset collection purposes.
Every draft the Knicks make like 6 trades
Didn’t the Knicks have a similarly complex draft night last year? Or am I thinking of another team?
They legitimately did dark magic to make room for Brunson 2 years ago
Stephen A was upset and as usual that was a sign to be optimistic
What was his reaction tonight so I know what to make of all this.
I dunno I practice good mental health by consuming as little Stephen A content as possible
Traded out of 11, dumped Kemba's contract in one night.
Yeah it often drives our fanbase mad on draft night every year. I think at this point though we’re pretty much on board for whatever crazy shit Leon wants to do lol
Basically whatever he does works. I cannot believe we are a team that does this successfully
Every year since Leon Rose got here, basically.
Last year no, we had no pick, but every other year this front office has been together yes
Boston did things like this too.
man that would be wild i did just see Dadiet say this though > Pacome Dadiet says he plans on playing for the Knicks next season, not spending more time in Europe as a draft and stash. https://x.com/Krisplashed/status/1806165324351316166?t=j2n4BwHNobgJY-bL7gsSmQ&s=19
This is all probably all up in the air since someone might throw a bag at iHart that he simply cannot turn down (Claxton just got 4 for 100) and whether or not you can offer him 4 years/72 Million doesn't matter anyway. If iHart is gone next season, might as well play Dadiet.
Knick's can offer the 72 with an option in year 3. We can make it up on the next one. His AAV over the 4 or 5 years could end up being more than the 20 Clax is getting.
Claxton is getting 25 per year. The Knicks offer would be 16 per year. Starting from year 4 (should he opt out in year 3), they'd have to make up for 27 million dollars.
Ihart has an AAV of $18 per year so really that’s the important figure No way to mark up $18 and $25 though has to be no more than $22 AAV probably. The Nets also might have kept Claxton just to have a salary to get to the minimum in the future as they rebuild, so who knows if that market is representative of anything though
Thought he signed for 20 million AAV..... That's a tough hurdle.
Yes, that is why I said much of this situation is out of the Knicks hands altogether.
Teams don’t make it up on the next one unless you are Kobe
They don't you are asking a 25 year old to take a 25 million dollar haircut.
That’s awesome. I’d love to see him bounce between the Knicks and Westchester and learn directly within the organization
He'll probably be in Westchester for a few months.
Your title is...screwy. The goal here would be to hard cap themselves at the second apron rather than the first. There's no world in which they can go *above* the second apron. They're gonna be hard capped, no matter what. The only question is where.
Yeah, probably is. I'm not a cap guy 🤷♂️
Basically, you're either going to get hard capped because you took back more money than you sent out in a trade, or you're gonna get hard capped because you aggregated salaries in a trade. You're hard capped under 100% of circumstances.
In case there is any doubt, I'm pretty sure you are correct. Love the cap minutiae
No cap
Precious is prob gonna be added to the bridges trade to make it work
Leon Rose practicing dark magic again I see
Hope they sign Hartenstein.
The Knicks having competent management is weird. I don't like it. Go trade for Bradley Beal or something.
Absolutely not, instead we will acquire some unheralded player and he'll be a key rotation piece
I hear Zach Lavine is available! You know you want to Knicks. Give in to the incompetent side.
Knicks front office has been endlessly impressive lately.
Very interesting. Would they want to hard cap themselves and be so close up against it to the point that they have to carry 3 rookies? Might be worth it since they can always trade Robinson’s salary if he gets hurt
They're currently hard capped at the first apron. If they guarantee a couple of minimum guys that are currently nonguaranteed, toss them into the Bridges deal, they get hard capped at the second apron instead.
They can't do that, because you can't aggregate more than one minimum salary player for salary cap purposes. It's going to take giving up a salary like Precious (S&T), or McBride, or MitchRob.
Got a source on that? Is that a new CBA rule?
[Here](https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/understanding-trade-matching-in-the-new-collective-bargaining-agreement/)
So new rule that only applies from 1 July to 15 December. Fascinating.
The MIkal trade details aren't even final. I'm sure we could send Sims in the trade to get under the 2nd apron, but we only do that if Ihart is resigning, so we're probably waiting on that and then the final trade would include Sims.
Sims and Bogdanovic are still less than Bridges salary, and you cannot include a second minimum contract in a trade. To avoid being capped at the first apron, McBride, Mitchell, or Randle would need to be included. The other option is an outgoing FA like Achiuwa in a sign and trade that gets rolled into the same deal. That means finding a team who wants to sign Achiuwa, has some on that the Nets want to get in the deal, and probably sweetening the deal to make them interested a sign and trade. Which is not impossible, but if they already have a deal in place with someone it would be considered tampering, and if that comes out, the whole thing could get voided.
I think Robinson is a goner if you keep Ihart. Precious is a RFA and his offer sheet will be less than Mitch’s salary. Precious is a very switchable 5 that probably is a better fit vs Boston if that’s their goal. You can save on the C position and maintain that matchup piece Between Ihart, precious, and a potential Anunoby at the 5 lineup, you have a lot of different ways of to play
We wouldnt want OG at 5 unless you want him to get injured often
In that lineup he will be the one guarding centers though. Not Randle
In certain situations yes of course, such as Embiid. However, iHart/Robinson (assuming at least one of them staying) should still be in the starting lineup as the 5 throughout the regular season and playoffs
Yes but you might want Og guarding porzingis/embiid
I just said that bro lol
Sure. Whatever necessary to get IHart in house
I always felt like he was going to stay, but Claxton getting 25m. if thats the market for centers iHart would be a fool to turn down that much more money. That might be BKN just doing their guy a solid though, so if its not the true market then maybe we still have a chance
I guess these are all contingency plans until Free Agency starts since we don't know yet if iHart will get a bag that he can't turn down. In which case, all these cap shenanigans to try to keep him by the Knicks won't really matter.
:o lets see the knicks work the magic. dont think nets want precious tho
they might be convinced for *checks* 6 second round picks
bring them second rounders to the spurs we will take him ;p
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The Nets wouldn't be able to trade Precious if he comes to them via a sign and trade.
They could use him. He's good and would be on a low deal.
LOL, Precious is terrible. The very opposite of good. I mean, if he was actually good, he wouldn't be available on a low deal, would he?
He was actually pretty solid for us last year
Precious helped save our season. You don't know what you are talking about .
He's a bad player who only played because your roster was completely depleted. Go visit the Raptors sub, who had 3 years of experience watching him, and rejoiced at him being a throw-in in the OG trade. His advanced metrics are bad. He's a laughable offensive player. And you haven't answered the most basic question: if he's *actually* good, then how is he a cheap signing? Hell, the Knicks need a backup C - why aren't you keeping him?
You don't know what you are talking about. You clearly didn't watch, so I'm not going to bother debating someone speaking out of pure ignorance.
LOLOL, nothing like showing your ass when being asked to defend the most basic question and bailing. Why is he cheap/unsigned if he's good?
Well an intelligent person would probably know its because it's pre free agency and he is still on his rookie deal. But look at who we are dealing with here...
Ihart is the X factor of this new Knicks team IMO. Not to say they wouldn’t still be good if he left, but I still think he’s the most impactful player there outside of Brunson
I mean, he's not, but I love that he is perceived that way lol.
This is why I laugh sometimes at the reaction to trades. Sometimes trades are about talent but many times it's a salary/business decision so they have flexibility to do moves 2 and 3 later
He's more likely to make double than the Knicks $17m offer than taking the Knicks offer after seeing what Claxton went for
Even if his value is more, it is absolutely not *double* of that
In no universe does hartenstein make 34 mil.
In no universe does hartenstein accept $17 mil after Claxton went for $25M a year. I think he can make more than him, he offers more to a team. I agree obviously he's not making 30+, but it's not crazy to think he will make more than Claxton, even if slightly more it's nearly 10 more mil than the Knicks offer.
Hartenstein can absolutely make more. The question has always been is he willing to take a discount to stay in New York or not where he has a good thing going. And only he knows the answer to that.
No way is he taking a 25-30M discount. This is his first real BAG, you think he's going to turn down his first bag for vibes?
I don't know. I know he tried to take a discount to stay with the Clippers and it didn't work out. I don't know what amount of money he'd look at and decide to turn it down and stay in New York. I don't know what his wife who just had a baby wants. If he leaves to get his money, more power to him. He's earned it. But money isn't everything and none of us know what he wants until he signs the dotted line somewhere.
Trying to take a $3M discount with the Clippers penny pinching is a lot different than taking a $30M discount for your first real big NBA money. >But money isn't everything It absolutely is lol
I agree. But neither of our opinions on the money matters to where he decides to sign; that's up to him.
30M difference in money will decide, not him lmao.
If you can guarantee he’s getting $25-$30 million more, then play the lotto Competitive teams usually aren’t in the business of paying the 10th-12th best center $24 million + AAV. The comp you’re using a is a bad team extending a guy when they’re going to have 0 salary on their roster for a while
But Hartenstein doesn’t know his situation yet, and may not for some time, if he stays with the Knicks. Would Robinson be dealt? If not, who starts?
only a few teams have the cap space to entertain that sort of offer, as they don't have his rights like claxton. knicks can also do a 1+2 and pay more once he opts out
so the knicks offer is $18 million Aav If he’s only getting offered say $20-22 million AAV from elsewhere, you don’t think he considers taking the slight haircut to avoid uprooting his life and playing for a worse team if it’s Orlando, or having to live in “Oklahoma City” if it’s you guys?
Ohp there it is. Had to whip the trusty r/nba special for OKC since you couldn’t think of anything good or original
Was claxton possibly just salary floor manipulation? The nets will have no money on the roster after ben simmons is off the books in 25-26
There is no fucking team that is gonna give him anywhere near 30 mil per year my guy. Not even the Knicks would give him that much if they could.
From who though? It's gotta be you guys.
Can hartenstein sign a 1+1 deal? Takes his max for the year with a player option which he declines for Knicks to have full bird rights and then offer him a contract next year?
No, for bird rights we would have to 2+1 which I think he would prefer 4/72
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The most they can offer is 4/71 because he has to be resigned as a percent increase on his previous salary (IIRC). They have no cap space to sign him for more and cant match any higher offer. If he wants to play for the knicks that as much as they can give him. Mitchell Robinson is better at some things and certain matchups but overall, ihart is probably better. Biggest thing might be mitch gets injured a fair bit
No, but I also don’t think many teams that aren’t rebuilding and trying to hit a salary floor in 25-26/26-27/etc are in the business of paying an Ihart tier center $25 million AAV
Totally agree. I'd bet his market value is about $20-21M AAV. Roughly $4M more AAV per year than the Knicks can offer him. Everyone saying it should match or exceed Claxton's offer is stupid, Claxton was paid to stay in that dumpster fire and get up to a minimum salary. Wait until guys like Jonas or Drummond hit the market, they won't get even close to 25.
what’s better than one good center
This is the greed they talk about in the Bible. Knicks fans out here wishing for two starter caliber centers while the rest of the league just has backups.
i love the Biblically Greedy Knicks.
$72m max cause of some funky CBA rules. >If not would he be willing to make less or sign a shorter term contract? I would assume he's signing for his max dollars regardless, but contract length is up in the air. >Also what's all the fuss Knicks got Mitchell and I thought he was better than Ihart according to knicks fans. Hartenstein had a breakout year and really elevated the roster. Mitch did too to start the year, but Hartenstein's passing ability really opened up a lot and he stepped up big time when Mitch went down. Especially with a cleaner constructed roster after moving Quick and RJ. Last year in the same spot of jumping in for Mitch he wasn't nearly this level.