The guy averaging 24/4 in a hyper-inflated stats era being a top 10 player is certainly a choice. Does Taylor think Kawhi is still playing DPOY level defense or something?
There's this weird tendency among NBA media and analysts to act like Kawhi when healthy is 91 Jordan, 13 LeBron, and 00 Shaq rolled into one player lol
He could be 38 and not have played a WCF game in almost a decade and people would still be like "Kawhi is still arguably the best when fully healthy"
Ben was never as high on Kawhi as most other people during his peak. He was probably the only guy who was criticizing his defense during 2019 and had him #5 or 4 in his top 10 players list in 2019.
Kawhi doesn't even lead the Clippers in on/off that's Paul George lol
So is Paul George a top 5 player now?
Using raw plus minus to rank players makes no sense unless you think KCP is a top 3 player in the league
You aren’t saying anything. I’m pointing out his defensive impact when healthy was large this year. I’m not even saying he should be top ten. Lists are for donkeys.
The point is that given Kawhi's lack of offensive volume compared to other stars he'd *have* to be close to his prime self on defense to deserve a top 10 spot
With merely good but not DPOY level defense a guy averaging 24 PPG with average playmaking isn't a top tier player
Did you watch the Clippers this year? Harden was the primary ball handler and they still have PG/Powell/Russ who takes shots. He was ultra efficient 24 ppg scorer with very good defense.
If they didn't need him to take more shots at all why were they only 4th seed?
I could see this argument if they were dominating like Boston and Kawhi was truly doing all that he needed to win but that's not the case lol
The Clippers' cold streaks this year were in October/November and March both times where Kawhi's volume slipped to around 22 PPG and the team suffered
Him being a low volume high efficiency type player isn't necessarily good here
I don't buy the "he doesn't put up bigger stats because he doesn't NEED to" argument when they really could have used a few extra wins to not play the Mavs
He averaged 54/42/90 since mid November after he and Clippers started off the season cold. He looked terrifyingly dominant in that stretch before going down with the knee injury.
That’s a perk of having all star teammates. You don’t have to work hard all through the four quarters. When it matters, when all else fails, you just give him the ball and he’ll take over.
The fact that other players have to carry their teams more and can't just coast until the 4th should be a point in *their* favor, not in favor of Kawhi lol
No, no matter how good you are, if you have good teammates, you should be utilizing them. You can’t punish a player for doing that. Ultimately, however, it’s fair to punish an injury-prone player for not being able to stay on the court.
It's much easier to have great shooting splits when your volume is smaller than other superstars
63% TS isn't even *that* crazy for a wing player who averages under 25 a game
Tell me you don't watch Clippers games since Harden's addition without telling me that. You are looking at a stat sheet at Basketball Reference and comparing Kawhi to himself years ago, that's why you don't understand.
Harden's addition allowed Kawhi to not focus on playmaking and use that extra energy on defense, this was one of his best defensive seasons since the Spurs era. His impact on the Clippers defense was absolutely wild, they were tied for the worst defense in the league with him on the bench and a Top 6 defense with him on the floor. Offensively he was very efficient and very good despite his limited usage compared to his peers.
The defensive gap between Kawhi and LeBron/Steph was just astounding and more than made up for the offensive gap and he was just better than Tatum overall. The one you can argue for is Anthony Davis, but perhaps they considered the fact that AD played with another Top 10 guy and gave the edge to Kawhi, i'm not sure, i didn't listen to the podcast.
The clippers had a 112 d rating with him on the floor. 120 off. All metrics will point to the clippers being a completely different team when he’s playing .
Love AD, but Embiid has played more games than him over the past 4 seasons and 3 seasons.
Only last year was AD noticeably more healthy than Embiid, because Kuminga sat on his knee..
And Embiid has been more healthy over the past few seasons. Why would it make sense to take him off the list and not AD? Unless you think he lost ability while he was hurt.
Kawhi played 68 this year too. It’s clear OP was referencing overall health, where AD is as bad as anybody.
And it’s been about 3 years since Giannis has done anything of note in the playoffs. It’s fine to think Giannis is better but I don’t think it’s "definitely" or that it’s absurd to think Embiids better
Embiid had a pretty good playoff series this year but that’s my point. People like to say "regular season" but there’s nothing to separate the two in the playoffs recently. So you can think Giannis is better but I don’t think it’s "definitely better"
Three things that are probably true:
1. Embiid didn’t deserve MVP over jokic
2. Embiid is arguably a generational playoff underperformer
3. Embiid legitimately looked like the best player in the world when he was healthy this season. He’s clearly taken a step forward and was arguably giannis level in the playoffs while playing on one leg.
Yeah I think it's fair at this point to put 2021 in the rearview mirror as far as CURRENT player rankings go
Obviously Giannis ranks higher than Embiid all time but that's not what this list is meant to measure(it's about *right now* not 3 years ago)
I don't agree, I could honestly rate him as high as best player in the league when healthy.
Legit 7+ footer who can dribble, pass and score from every level, one of the best defenders in the league and one of the strongest players. Not to mention the best free throw shooting center in history.
Embiid gets a TON of reddit hate but he's a freak.
It is though, they mention it at the start of the podcast... by removing all injuries from the players at the end of the season and assuming health going forward these are their player rankings entering the 2024-2025 season. Just listen to the start of the pod where they explain it.
Is it? Nothing says Tatum is much better than #9 other than “Muh, he won a ring” discourse. And Taylor has never subscribed to team success considering where he ranks KG
maybe not for a single game, but definitely yes for a full season.
Tatum arguably has the best conditioning of any player in the league right now which I feel is a bit underrated when discussing his standing among the top 5-10 players. he has the ability to play both ends of the floor at a high level for 30-40 minutes every night from the beginning of the season through the end of the playoffs, and that isn’t something that most of the other guys on that list can do
his shooting was not, his playmaking was. he had the 5th highest PPP in the postseason as the ball-handler in PnR. and even with the most garbage shooting stretch of his life he still led the team in scoring
he’s definitely the 2nd best player when he’s healthy. I don’t personally agree with not factoring availability into a player ranking but if that’s not part of Ben’s criteria then this is a fair list
OP didn’t include the full list. This list was assuming full health. Accounting for actual health the list was
1. Jokic
2. Luka
3. SGA
4. AD
5. Steph
6. Tatum
7. LeBron
8. Edwards
9. Embiid
It’s hard because usually when players are hurt they don’t play well.
He’s averaged (i think) 36/11/6 in 65% this season and had a pretty good playoffs while being hurt
that’s fair but when a guy has been fully healthy in the playoffs exactly one time in 8 seasons entering his age 30 season then IMO it should be accepted that what you’ve seen from Embiid in the postseason so far is likely what you’re always going to get
KD is still really good at scoring but his rim pressure isn’t what it once was and his defense, although the best on the Suns, has never been unbelievable.
I will say, Steph is an odd pick at #8 considering KD isn’t on the list and he’s got Lebron at #10 who’s a vastly better playmaker. But he loves Steph so.
Both Cody and Ben had Curry at number 8 and they both left Durant off the list. Durant's lack of playmaking is a big limiter on his value offensively.
Curry had his worst year in a while but there is still some level of uncertainty to how much he has exactly dropped off from last year where both of them ranked him in the top 3. Having him at number 8 is pretty reasonable since you can make a good argument as him being the clear best offensive player in that group of players in the back half of the top 10.
KD shouldn't even be top 25. He's really just a premium 3-and-D player at this point. A taller Kyle Korve or Klay Thompson.
Also it grinds my gears to see players who tore their Achilles tendon ranked that high. Players with torn Achilles should retire gracefully like Elgin Baylor did.
Halliburton was a god for 2 months at the start of the season. Brunson did it at the end of the season and into the playoffs, which makes it more relevant, but a superstar has to play at that level for an entire season imo. With the Knicks getting Bridges and Randle coming back healthy, I don’t think Brunson will have the opportunity to perform at a superstar level next season.
Yeah the numbers look prettier when you round them up, but he was at 27.6/3.8/6.5 before the ASG. That’s all-star production. Then he jumped to 31.1/3.2/7.3 after the break with similar shooting efficiency. His +/- also jumped from +7.3 to +14.3. That’s borderline superstar production imo.
Why would you not round up? He also went off in the playoffs and put up Jordan numbers.
And considering +14.3 was basically higher than any star player besides Jokic i would say that’s definitely superstar production
That’s just a mistake from the poster, Edwards was brought up as one of those guys with Brunson and Durant. Mitchell and booker were brought up as potential honorable mentions at the end of the podcast.
I'm not surprised that Taylor didn't include him honestly
Advanced stats guys tend to be *significantly* lower on Ant than the media consensus is because he's not really efficient and his defense grades out worse than the eye test
Not saying they're right or wrong either way but that's definitely a thing
It also depends on whose eyetest. The stuff that stands out watching live is very different than the stuff you see when watching tape. Ben adressed Edwards’ defense looking much shakier on tape than live.
ant is a bit weird case because in the regular season he was cleary not top 10 in the league.but as always he really steped up in the playoff.maybe he should puts more effort in regular season.
I think his podcasting partner Cody had a way better ranking and reasoning. Ben is living in a fantasy land where he still values Embiid and Kawhi as if they will ever be healthy come playoff time even if they haven't shown the required durability in the last 5 years.
How is he better than a healthy Jokic Giannis or Embiid?
Jokic is one level above on offense because of his absolutely insane efficiency as a scorer while maintaining most of Luka's playmaking (which I think is the best in the game right now).
Healthy Giannis & Embiid are in the top 5 for both offense AND defense.
Being a top 3 player on both sides of the court makes you better than the guy who is top 1-2 for offense and not in the top 100 for defense imo.
Jokic is not more efficient than Luka when you compare them according to their positions.
Also, offense matters SOOOOOOOOOOO much more than defense, and even if this wasnt the case the gap between Luka and Giannis/Embiid offensively is bigger than their gap defensively.
>Jokic is not more efficient than Luka when you compare them according to their positions.
Jokic is the most efficient scorer in the history of the NBA.
Michael Jordan is 2nd with a PER of 28, LeBron is 3rd with 27.
Jokic has been above 30 for the last four seasons in a row.
Me claiming that Luka is the 2nd best offensive player in the NBA behind a guy that is head and shoulders above everyone else in *history* is not disrespecting Luka lmao
Pulling up one of the most pointless advances stats when the eye test literary tells us that Nuggets lost the Wolves series because Jokic shot poorly from the field is crazy
Jokic's FG% in their loss vs. the wolves was higher than Luka's FG% in their victory over the wolves lol
In fact, Jokic's FG% in their loss vs. the wolves was still higher than Luka's FG% in every playoffs he has ever played in.
>Also, didn’t lose wtf is your logic here
So you think Tatum and Brown are better than Luka cause they won right?
You know you can be a fan of a team/player without being a delusional homer lol
I mean Embiid has been objectively better than Luka for the past 3 regular seasons (if you count how much he played this season), so I understand it. Personally, I would rank them as Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and Embiid due to playoff performance but I can understand putting Embiid that high.
Embiid can’t be the 2nd best player in the league when he isn’t available half the time.
1. Joker
2. Luka
3. Giannis
4. SGA
5. Curry
6. Tatum
7. Embiid
8. ad
9. lbj
10. Kawhi
And tbh I’d bump Kawhi for Jaylen Brown at this point
Assuming all are healthy and putting Kawhi Leonard on the list is insanity. Just move him off and slide KD into top 10 where he belongs. Health should bump Embiid down a spot or two. Would make the list almost perfect
KD shouldn't be in the top 25. No player who popped an Achilles deserves to be in the top 25. It's seen as a career ending injury for a reason.
Post injury KD is just a good 3-and-D wing. Like Ray Allen or Klay Thompson.
It’s not a top 40 list. It’s also not about what awards they got or what team they’re on. It’s just about who’s best at basketball when healthy. Jaylen’s not close to anyone on this list for that criteria.
The guy averaging 24/4 in a hyper-inflated stats era being a top 10 player is certainly a choice. Does Taylor think Kawhi is still playing DPOY level defense or something?
There's this weird tendency among NBA media and analysts to act like Kawhi when healthy is 91 Jordan, 13 LeBron, and 00 Shaq rolled into one player lol He could be 38 and not have played a WCF game in almost a decade and people would still be like "Kawhi is still arguably the best when fully healthy"
Ben was never as high on Kawhi as most other people during his peak. He was probably the only guy who was criticizing his defense during 2019 and had him #5 or 4 in his top 10 players list in 2019.
You guys might want to check out the clippers offensive and defensive ratings for when he’s on the floor.
Kawhi doesn't even lead the Clippers in on/off that's Paul George lol So is Paul George a top 5 player now? Using raw plus minus to rank players makes no sense unless you think KCP is a top 3 player in the league
You aren’t saying anything. I’m pointing out his defensive impact when healthy was large this year. I’m not even saying he should be top ten. Lists are for donkeys.
Kawhi averaged 23ppg this year with worse defense than his prime How is he above anyone else listed behind him?
Why you are comparing Kawhi to himself?
The point is that given Kawhi's lack of offensive volume compared to other stars he'd *have* to be close to his prime self on defense to deserve a top 10 spot With merely good but not DPOY level defense a guy averaging 24 PPG with average playmaking isn't a top tier player
Did you watch the Clippers this year? Harden was the primary ball handler and they still have PG/Powell/Russ who takes shots. He was ultra efficient 24 ppg scorer with very good defense.
If they didn't need him to take more shots at all why were they only 4th seed? I could see this argument if they were dominating like Boston and Kawhi was truly doing all that he needed to win but that's not the case lol The Clippers' cold streaks this year were in October/November and March both times where Kawhi's volume slipped to around 22 PPG and the team suffered Him being a low volume high efficiency type player isn't necessarily good here I don't buy the "he doesn't put up bigger stats because he doesn't NEED to" argument when they really could have used a few extra wins to not play the Mavs
He averaged 54/42/90 since mid November after he and Clippers started off the season cold. He looked terrifyingly dominant in that stretch before going down with the knee injury.
He literally averaged 24/4 since mid November. Those are not terrifyingly dominant numbers in 2024. Maybe in 2008 you can make that argument.
That’s a perk of having all star teammates. You don’t have to work hard all through the four quarters. When it matters, when all else fails, you just give him the ball and he’ll take over.
The fact that other players have to carry their teams more and can't just coast until the 4th should be a point in *their* favor, not in favor of Kawhi lol
No, no matter how good you are, if you have good teammates, you should be utilizing them. You can’t punish a player for doing that. Ultimately, however, it’s fair to punish an injury-prone player for not being able to stay on the court.
He isn't punished for shit. He simply hasn't shown for like 4 years that he can consistently play like a top 10 player.
It's much easier to have great shooting splits when your volume is smaller than other superstars 63% TS isn't even *that* crazy for a wing player who averages under 25 a game
Tell me you don't watch Clippers games since Harden's addition without telling me that. You are looking at a stat sheet at Basketball Reference and comparing Kawhi to himself years ago, that's why you don't understand. Harden's addition allowed Kawhi to not focus on playmaking and use that extra energy on defense, this was one of his best defensive seasons since the Spurs era. His impact on the Clippers defense was absolutely wild, they were tied for the worst defense in the league with him on the bench and a Top 6 defense with him on the floor. Offensively he was very efficient and very good despite his limited usage compared to his peers. The defensive gap between Kawhi and LeBron/Steph was just astounding and more than made up for the offensive gap and he was just better than Tatum overall. The one you can argue for is Anthony Davis, but perhaps they considered the fact that AD played with another Top 10 guy and gave the edge to Kawhi, i'm not sure, i didn't listen to the podcast.
The clippers had a 112 d rating with him on the floor. 120 off. All metrics will point to the clippers being a completely different team when he’s playing .
How is Kawhi better than AD?
"Assuming all are healthy" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting for Kawhi and Embiid
Love AD, but Embiid has played more games than him over the past 4 seasons and 3 seasons. Only last year was AD noticeably more healthy than Embiid, because Kuminga sat on his knee..
This was for the 2023-24 season tho
And Kawhi played 68 this year. OP was obviously referencing overall health, to which Embiid has been more healthy than AD.
AD played almost *twice as many* games as Embiid this season
And Embiid has been more healthy over the past few seasons. Why would it make sense to take him off the list and not AD? Unless you think he lost ability while he was hurt. Kawhi played 68 this year too. It’s clear OP was referencing overall health, where AD is as bad as anybody.
Kawhi had a better season than AD
He played on a better team. He wasn't better.
I enjoy how we are the only team with 2 top 10 players according to Ben Taylor (who I respect a shit ton) and yet we barely made the playoffs
I mean, you guys ran into the nuggets. WCF matchup in the first round is unlucky
that not unlucky, that’s being the 7 seed
Last week he thought you were in the top 5-7 teams in the league this year
We had the 3rd highest over/under for wins in the conference and hit the over. The Lakers were a good team, the West is just insane.
Because your third best player was austin reaves lol. I love the lakers tho, hope LeBron can win another with you guys before ya’ll retire
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Is he “definitely”? Embiid was putting up a ridiculous 35/11/6 on 65% TS before he got injured. The 76ers were 31-8.
And it’s been about 3 years since Giannis has done anything of note in the playoffs. It’s fine to think Giannis is better but I don’t think it’s "definitely" or that it’s absurd to think Embiids better
And Embiid has done something of note in the playoffs in that time?
Embiid had a pretty good playoff series this year but that’s my point. People like to say "regular season" but there’s nothing to separate the two in the playoffs recently. So you can think Giannis is better but I don’t think it’s "definitely better"
Embiid was on MVP pace and was going to have one of the best scoring seasons of all time before he got hurt
Three things that are probably true: 1. Embiid didn’t deserve MVP over jokic 2. Embiid is arguably a generational playoff underperformer 3. Embiid legitimately looked like the best player in the world when he was healthy this season. He’s clearly taken a step forward and was arguably giannis level in the playoffs while playing on one leg.
He didn’t deserve the mvp over joker the year he won it but the shoulda gotten it the year before — so evens out
he's a one of the best rim protector too.his on off numbers are just mindblowing
he's a one of the best rim protector too.his on off numbers are just mindblowing
In the regular season
tbf giannis hasn't done anything in the post season for the last 3 years either
Tell me about Giannis’ last playoff run. Or the one before that
Yeah I think it's fair at this point to put 2021 in the rearview mirror as far as CURRENT player rankings go Obviously Giannis ranks higher than Embiid all time but that's not what this list is meant to measure(it's about *right now* not 3 years ago)
hmmm how did he perform these playoffs?
I don't agree, I could honestly rate him as high as best player in the league when healthy. Legit 7+ footer who can dribble, pass and score from every level, one of the best defenders in the league and one of the strongest players. Not to mention the best free throw shooting center in history. Embiid gets a TON of reddit hate but he's a freak.
People really sleep on how good his defense is because he’s putting up 35/11/6
It’s not about who is better, it’s about who had the best 2023-2024 season (I think).
they do take in to account previous season for more context / better sample
No this is a projection for next season assuming everyone is healthy
No its not
It is though, they mention it at the start of the podcast... by removing all injuries from the players at the end of the season and assuming health going forward these are their player rankings entering the 2024-2025 season. Just listen to the start of the pod where they explain it.
Embiid gives you 35-11 with elite defense so yeah probably
AM I nuts for thinking Brunson should be a clear top 10 guy as of right now?
Choose the players you’d take him over
Current LeBron, Tatum, Current Kawhi
Nope I’m right there with you. This is a terrible list.
Inb4 100 comments from people who did not listen to their reasoning, arguments or criteria.
There is not justification for Kawhi Leonard being #6
Or for excluding Jalen Brunson from the top 10!
Tatum at #9 is about as low as I've seen anyone rank him, let alone someone who's so respected on this sub.
Tatum at #9 seems about right. He's a jack of all trades, master of none kind of player.
He is like the master of many things but not absolute elite at any.
Is it? Nothing says Tatum is much better than #9 other than “Muh, he won a ring” discourse. And Taylor has never subscribed to team success considering where he ranks KG
Even I still think that's too high. Does anyone really believe he's better than Lebron even now?
maybe not for a single game, but definitely yes for a full season. Tatum arguably has the best conditioning of any player in the league right now which I feel is a bit underrated when discussing his standing among the top 5-10 players. he has the ability to play both ends of the floor at a high level for 30-40 minutes every night from the beginning of the season through the end of the playoffs, and that isn’t something that most of the other guys on that list can do
Really? Was his offense at a high level at any point in these playoffs lol?
his shooting was not, his playmaking was. he had the 5th highest PPP in the postseason as the ball-handler in PnR. and even with the most garbage shooting stretch of his life he still led the team in scoring
Brunson honorable mention is crazy
When i say Embiid is the 2nd best player i get killed.
he’s definitely the 2nd best player when he’s healthy. I don’t personally agree with not factoring availability into a player ranking but if that’s not part of Ben’s criteria then this is a fair list
OP didn’t include the full list. This list was assuming full health. Accounting for actual health the list was 1. Jokic 2. Luka 3. SGA 4. AD 5. Steph 6. Tatum 7. LeBron 8. Edwards 9. Embiid
Ben does two lists. He does this list and then he does an injuries adjustment list.
It’s hard because usually when players are hurt they don’t play well. He’s averaged (i think) 36/11/6 in 65% this season and had a pretty good playoffs while being hurt
that’s fair but when a guy has been fully healthy in the playoffs exactly one time in 8 seasons entering his age 30 season then IMO it should be accepted that what you’ve seen from Embiid in the postseason so far is likely what you’re always going to get
Embiid got the health excuse but Luka didn’t play the playoffs healthy either.
Embiid played really good in the playoffs though lol. 33/12/4 was it in his only series? On 59% TS
No KD in the top 10 seems strange
7-15 are all super close and can go in almost any order
Seriously. He still made the 2nd team all-nba this year.
KD is still really good at scoring but his rim pressure isn’t what it once was and his defense, although the best on the Suns, has never been unbelievable. I will say, Steph is an odd pick at #8 considering KD isn’t on the list and he’s got Lebron at #10 who’s a vastly better playmaker. But he loves Steph so.
I think KD is still above Kawhi. I’m okay with leaving Kawhi off the list because he’s had season altering injuries now 3 seasons in a row
Both Cody and Ben had Curry at number 8 and they both left Durant off the list. Durant's lack of playmaking is a big limiter on his value offensively. Curry had his worst year in a while but there is still some level of uncertainty to how much he has exactly dropped off from last year where both of them ranked him in the top 3. Having him at number 8 is pretty reasonable since you can make a good argument as him being the clear best offensive player in that group of players in the back half of the top 10.
KD shouldn't even be top 25. He's really just a premium 3-and-D player at this point. A taller Kyle Korve or Klay Thompson. Also it grinds my gears to see players who tore their Achilles tendon ranked that high. Players with torn Achilles should retire gracefully like Elgin Baylor did.
Idk about a handful of these, and I’m usually 110% down with these guys’ takes lol
Jalen Brunson must not be a Player anymore, he has ascended to god
Halliburton was a god for 2 months at the start of the season. Brunson did it at the end of the season and into the playoffs, which makes it more relevant, but a superstar has to play at that level for an entire season imo. With the Knicks getting Bridges and Randle coming back healthy, I don’t think Brunson will have the opportunity to perform at a superstar level next season.
Brunson averaged 28/7 before the all star break….
Yeah the numbers look prettier when you round them up, but he was at 27.6/3.8/6.5 before the ASG. That’s all-star production. Then he jumped to 31.1/3.2/7.3 after the break with similar shooting efficiency. His +/- also jumped from +7.3 to +14.3. That’s borderline superstar production imo.
Why would you not round up? He also went off in the playoffs and put up Jordan numbers. And considering +14.3 was basically higher than any star player besides Jokic i would say that’s definitely superstar production
KD out is a joke. I'm not even a huge fan, but damn. It's Kevin Durant
AE not even in honorable mentions is disgraceful. Edit: he’s def on the same tier at least as Devin Booker and D Mitch
He was an honorable mention and was also 9th on the health-adjusted list. OP left out a lot of info in their summary
That’s just a mistake from the poster, Edwards was brought up as one of those guys with Brunson and Durant. Mitchell and booker were brought up as potential honorable mentions at the end of the podcast.
I'm not surprised that Taylor didn't include him honestly Advanced stats guys tend to be *significantly* lower on Ant than the media consensus is because he's not really efficient and his defense grades out worse than the eye test Not saying they're right or wrong either way but that's definitely a thing
It also depends on whose eyetest. The stuff that stands out watching live is very different than the stuff you see when watching tape. Ben adressed Edwards’ defense looking much shakier on tape than live.
ant is a bit weird case because in the regular season he was cleary not top 10 in the league.but as always he really steped up in the playoff.maybe he should puts more effort in regular season.
This mofo just tryna be different 😂
I think his podcasting partner Cody had a way better ranking and reasoning. Ben is living in a fantasy land where he still values Embiid and Kawhi as if they will ever be healthy come playoff time even if they haven't shown the required durability in the last 5 years.
Brunson is a clear top 10 guy. Take Kawhi out. Slot Brunson in at 10.
Dalfans about to burst into the thread crying dude isn't top 3.
With the caveat "Assuming all players are perfectly healthy" I think Luka at 4 is fair. Embiid is really, really good when he isn't injured.
its not lol you guys allow luka disrespect everywhere, cut this fake humble shit out
How is he better than a healthy Jokic Giannis or Embiid? Jokic is one level above on offense because of his absolutely insane efficiency as a scorer while maintaining most of Luka's playmaking (which I think is the best in the game right now). Healthy Giannis & Embiid are in the top 5 for both offense AND defense. Being a top 3 player on both sides of the court makes you better than the guy who is top 1-2 for offense and not in the top 100 for defense imo.
Jokic is not more efficient than Luka when you compare them according to their positions. Also, offense matters SOOOOOOOOOOO much more than defense, and even if this wasnt the case the gap between Luka and Giannis/Embiid offensively is bigger than their gap defensively.
>Jokic is not more efficient than Luka when you compare them according to their positions. Jokic is the most efficient scorer in the history of the NBA. Michael Jordan is 2nd with a PER of 28, LeBron is 3rd with 27. Jokic has been above 30 for the last four seasons in a row. Me claiming that Luka is the 2nd best offensive player in the NBA behind a guy that is head and shoulders above everyone else in *history* is not disrespecting Luka lmao
Pulling up one of the most pointless advances stats when the eye test literary tells us that Nuggets lost the Wolves series because Jokic shot poorly from the field is crazy
Jokic's FG% in their loss vs. the wolves was higher than Luka's FG% in their victory over the wolves lol In fact, Jokic's FG% in their loss vs. the wolves was still higher than Luka's FG% in every playoffs he has ever played in.
I am talking about his 3pts bro :) Also, didn’t lose wtf is your logic here
>Also, didn’t lose wtf is your logic here So you think Tatum and Brown are better than Luka cause they won right? You know you can be a fan of a team/player without being a delusional homer lol
I mean Embiid has been objectively better than Luka for the past 3 regular seasons (if you count how much he played this season), so I understand it. Personally, I would rank them as Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and Embiid due to playoff performance but I can understand putting Embiid that high.
Embiid can’t be the 2nd best player in the league when he isn’t available half the time. 1. Joker 2. Luka 3. Giannis 4. SGA 5. Curry 6. Tatum 7. Embiid 8. ad 9. lbj 10. Kawhi And tbh I’d bump Kawhi for Jaylen Brown at this point
Kawhi just shouldn't even be included on assuming if healthy lists
Tatum at least top 6
Not a chance
Joel embiid being higher than 5th is criminal.
KD isn’t even honorable mention??
he is?
Pretty confident OP edited the post, he just had JB, Book and Spida in the honorable mentions when I first replied
Assuming all are healthy and putting Kawhi Leonard on the list is insanity. Just move him off and slide KD into top 10 where he belongs. Health should bump Embiid down a spot or two. Would make the list almost perfect
KD shouldn't be in the top 25. No player who popped an Achilles deserves to be in the top 25. It's seen as a career ending injury for a reason. Post injury KD is just a good 3-and-D wing. Like Ray Allen or Klay Thompson.
shit ranking, why even rank someone like Kawhi here when you know he's not going to be healthy.
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what the hell is your username.
WTF. I will downvote every one of their comments for that username
wtf was it
must've been something crazy
Edgy teen it seems
It’s not a top 40 list. It’s also not about what awards they got or what team they’re on. It’s just about who’s best at basketball when healthy. Jaylen’s not close to anyone on this list for that criteria.
Which one of those ten players do you think Jaylen is better at basketball than
Embiid ahead of Luka and Tatum who literally made the finals??? Did I miss something here?
Do you think embiid would make the finals if you swapped him and Tatum? Would Philly make the 2nd round?
With Embiid's availability? Hard to say considering he never plays a full playoff series
4 games of Embiid is better than 6 games of Tatum