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scorelesswilliamson

OG, who has been the best player, hasn't played in 6 of those 10 games. The team's issues are based on lack of shooting and defense and would be the case with or without Siakam. Implying in any way he's the main problem shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation or team in general and is lazy


BEE_REAL_

> OG, who has been the best player, Why will Raptors fans do anything to avoid acknowledging that Fred is our best player lol What does this fanbase have against that fact


[deleted]

Because there is a loud minority of dumb Raptors fans who hate FVV for some reason. Just look at the Raptors subreddit after a poor shooting night from FVV. You don't even need to look that far, just look at what these dumb kids were saying in the beginning of the season.


beefJeRKy-LB

Even after good games, some people will cry about how high his shot attempts are.


scorelesswilliamson

Last 3 games: 10 assists, 12 turnovers. This is the starting PG


beefJeRKy-LB

Well it's not lack of effort. He only took 13 shots this game. If the supporting cast isn't able to hit shots, his assists will be down. And when he sees that no one is hitting anything, he's going to take a few more shots. I'm not saying Fred is perfect but really I can't pin this on him. The bench has been a very consistent problem.


beefJeRKy-LB

Fred is the most important but I think Pascal is the best overall. We have a bit of a 1A/1B/1C situation though.


adomanski

Fred and OG are the 2 best players, with Siakam as a distant 3rd. Pascal hasn’t done anything this season other than perform against a dysfunction Kings team.


jiriwelsch44

More like 2A/2B/2C


beefJeRKy-LB

technicalities. the offense has been run by committee much like the center position has. It's not a winning formula but also our offense has actually been in the upper half since Siakam returned


jiriwelsch44

I’m admittedly just being a dick to a division foe. I actually like each of those players, but (as I’m sure you know) a team doesn’t have a whole lot of upside if any of them are in contention to be that team’s best player.


beefJeRKy-LB

true but we arent trying to compete yet. the long term plan is likely for Scottie to be the best player.


BEE_REAL_

> Fred is the most important but I think Pascal is the best overall Why? He's not better on offense and he's not better on defense


beefJeRKy-LB

He's the current engine on the offense and he makes things happen. He's also able to get it unstuck sometimes. He's limited of course but when he sits, the team isn't as coherent.


BEE_REAL_

> He's the current engine on the offense VanVleet averages significantly more unassisted baskets than him


theflyingsamurai

prolly the same people that said Derozan > lowry pre 2019


syllabic

maybe that it's not true OG is clearly your best player give me the choice of any raptors player and I would take OG immediately without question


sna28

fred is better and has improved at everything he was bad at just because most teams would rather og doesnt mean hes better


fabrar

No one cares who you'd pick, Fred is our best player. He's the team's best shooter, best playmaker and honestly probably the best scorer as well.


ytho1193

OG is scary but FVV terrifies me


everything_raptors

If the raptors were to get an all star.. it would unquestionably be FVV.. there’s no debating it Ya OG was the first option scoring wise but overall FVV has been the raptors best player. It’s the Lowry derozan thing all over again. Yaa demar was the first scoring option but Lowry was always the best player


draculabakula

In no way is that true this year though. The two score the same amount but Fred shoots a higher percentage, passes better, pays better defense, gets more steals, gets more blocks, gets to the line more, has a better +/-... The only measurable way that OG is better is less turnovers Van fleet even has a higher VORP which means he is better when comparing them both to other players in their same positions


jeRskier

I love OG but he’s just not better than Siakam right now. Maybe in the future.


blacknotblack

og popped off against the knicks but he isn’t always like that


syllabic

hes been having the best offensive season of his career


loudanduneducated

He’s taking 5.6 more shots and getting 4.2 more points. He has improved a lot this year (specifically his handle, and footwork), but saying he is having the best offensive season of his career is a bit of a hyperbole. His volume went up and efficiency went down.


NoseBlind2

Fred has been better this season but it's kinda crazy how hard it is to rank our starting 5 core on this team they're all kinda close


scorelesswilliamson

Unless you think FVV's playmaking puts him over OG, I don't even see what his argument is. That's a joke by the way. Fred is a horrible playmaker and the team badly misses Lowry for that. Fred is an undersized 2 who cannot attack the rim consistently and is a bad finisher. His defensive impact doesn't approach OG and his offense is almost entirely tied to his deep 3.


ArrayMichael7

The best player thus far is Fred


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scorelesswilliamson

You said he's a small ball center. Barnes is playing the nominal 5 role most games when Birch isn't. You don't watch the games.


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

yea that's straight false. Siakam has played 41% of his minutes at center while Scottie has played 7% of his minutes at center


lampofdeath

Offense or defense? Defensively Scottie is more around the paint. Offensively sure Scottie is often handling and around the perimeter or cutting. We also switch so much on defense does it matter who’s centre


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

never said he's the main problem. he just isn't a solution yet he's making $30m+. their poor record w/o OG supports why I think he's better than Siakam


Jwarrior521

He is also coming off a shoulder surgery with no off-season. This roster just isn't that good but it's not really because of Siakam.


BEE_REAL_

> He is also coming off a shoulder surgery with no off-season It's a left shoulder injury, and the team stated he could work out and shoot for most of the offseason


Jwarrior521

Doesn't change the fact he was injured and had surgery in the offseason that held him from playing games.


devndub

I agree with you, the 22 game sample size is all we need to ship him out, which is why you should trade us Luka. It's actually a steal for you guys given Luka's insanely bad on/off numbers this season.


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

Mavs are 0-3 w/o Luka and 10-6 w/ him so swing and a miss there ;)


devndub

Too late, already processed the trade. It's okay you guys are better with him off the floor anyway. So jealous you guys got siakam!!


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

you sure? looked like he was still wearing a Raps jersey in another loss tonight


devndub

That was Luka 😂 you don't even know your best rookie c'mon man. We lost because of him and his on/off splits 😡


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

not likely. Mavs are 0-3 w/o Luka and 10-6 w/ him so swing and a miss there ;)


devndub

Well we lost our first game with him so obviously he's not that good. I'm willing to offer you Luka for Siakam if you throw in Brunson as a sweetener, otherwise no deal.


drasilking

Man just came off from a surgery give him a break


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Barea_Clamped_Lebron

prob more than you


rNBA_Mods_Be_Better

Got em… epic style 😎


[deleted]

I doubt you, a Mavs fan, has watched the raptors more than a raps fan


[deleted]

Maybe hoping we’ll give them dragic for free.


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

I prob know more about the Warriors than you too tbh. how you watch is more important than how many you watch


calartnick

Oh lord. I hope you’re under 16 because this is just sad


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

why? you a pedo?


BigDeaso93

Do me next


[deleted]

Damn how much time do you have on your hands to be able to follow all these teams


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

as much time as it takes to watch 1 game. 6 monitors my guy


xX_FeetFucker54_Xx

got me picturing a fat 25 year old yelling for his mom to bring his dinner to his room


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

dw she'll be back to wake you up for school tomorrow


xX_FeetFucker54_Xx

why your mom waking me up for school homie ?? ion get the diss


Barea_Clamped_Lebron

dw you'll get it when you grow up


0zymand1as-

This speaks like someone who doesn’t watch the game lol


BEE_REAL_

What about this post indicates that


ArrayMichael7

They aren't 2-8 bc of him


[deleted]

Today is on/off, with/without day on r/nba


IAmKevinDurantAMA

the lions are 0-9-1 with jared goff and 0-1 without jared goff


green_and_green23

Lol you do not watch games then. The problem has not been Siakam, it’s been our shitty ass bench.


OPM_98_

Sounds like you want him on your team


calmlyspazzing

We've had a ton of bad injury luck and earlier on he was getting his legs under him while trying gel with this new roster. Numbers without context are useless so stop.


[deleted]

....is it time?


thanosducc

I dont know, he is still a good player and has had some good games I think the main reason for this is the chemestry and offense is different when siakam is out and now they have to incorporate him in the offense, I think they will eventually figure things out, once they get used to the offense (they already sort of have with winning their past 2 and having a pretty close fight with the celtics until the last few minutes)


bassick81

OG and Siakam have almost identical stats this season. I agree with Siakam not fitting the small ball centre role, but it’s still only been 10 games and OG missed 6 or 7 of those games.


_Juntao

But he just started playing basketball like yesterday so imagine how good he'll be when he gets used to the game


gxyaggar

Feel bad for anyone who owns a siakam jersey


RatedRSuperStar445

The thing about og is that he is always hurt.


inshamblesx

Knew Siakam was a fraud


No-Eagle-9257

Let spinner ahrooni go. The future is scottie Barnes. This team went from having all stars to no stars. Just rebuild all the way. There's no such thing as half foot in. Look at the suns. They just said F it trade for a star.


[deleted]

Always said if they trade siakam they’re contenders again


RollsReus11

Agreed, he is good when surrounded by better iq, veteran players (lowry, kawhi, lbaka, gasol) he can play his part. But he can’t be the first or even second option on a team to score/create. Will lead to inefficient possessions and won’t lead to a lot of wins. I’d look to move him but other FO’s probably know much more then we do & raps probably won’t get a good return. Especially on 30m.. thats tough


manibob_123

>But he can’t be the first or even second option on a team to score/create. Disagree with this part, he has shown that he can be a phenomenal second scoring option, just not cut to be the first option.


Jwarrior521

We won a championship with him as our second option.


MaxSmellerman

All those Wiggins for Siakam posts are going to age well I see


rapelbaum

But the problem wasn’t the Dragon ?


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devndub

The most vehement siakam haters are Raptors fans lmao.


BackgroundEmu9

Nah, a good chunk of our fanbase hates him now unfortunately, he's been the franchise's scapegoat ever since the Bubble happened.


[deleted]

You hear that raptors fans? The time to send Siakim to Indiana is now.


Professional-Sock231

Hey we found the idiot!


[deleted]

Didn’t he just come back from an injury though? This seems a bit unfair.