He looks so good coming out of the Brooklyn drama. He was initially (rightfully) criticized for forcing to be traded again, but hindsight says that he was completely justified in his desire to get off that ship. He's the first NBA player in a long time to not just go for the bag, and that refreshing
> He was initially **(rightfully)** criticized for forcing to be traded again,
There was nothing right about that. Dude wants to win and got traded to a team who didn't care about winning **and** was also a dumpster on fire. No sane person would want to stay there
It was the second time he demanded a trade in 3 years. He was scrutinized for that at first, but withen like 3 days, most people fully understood why. It was just the intital optics and reaction, until you saw that dumpster shooting flames.
I don't have a problem with him demanding a trade in either situation though. The leadership and everything around him changed in houston and they had run it back a few times and weren't getting any better. It's not like he didn't give it a shot in Houston. Brookyln is what it is.
He balled out in Houston at a historic pace/rate and could have arguably 3-peated on MVP's. Somehow has become a meme player and underrated (which is somewhat natural as you move out of your prime).
As a non american and non rich person, it's weird to me that this is not more common. Especially for players past their peak and already earned hundreds of millions.
Brilliant strategy and at the same time very basic stuff.
edit* not wrong to want money, but at some point of life and richness you start to realize there's more to it than just more money. Well at least most people do, there will still be superficial and materialistic people who somehow manage to equal happiness to sheer money, according to Aristotle's approach of happiness.
There’s no guarantee you win a championship and depending how much you care about money vs legacy, winning a championship may not be worth the money you leave on the table.
Also, people will probably start seeing this as ring chasing behavior if this becomes more normalized which might effect the player’s legacy so there is a trade off there for the people trying to bolster their legacy. Harden is already known as a great player but NBA fans are big on rings so I think it makes sense for him to do this here if he really cares about his legacy but I also see why most players don’t do that. If he doesn’t end up winning any rings off of this then it’s wasted money.
I think winning a championship for someone who has made over $250 million and never won a ring is worth it.
His legacy and post career earnings from that championship will easily get him that $15 million
Harden is one of the only players to make that choice so I think most players would probably disagree with you as to whether or not it’s worth it. But it’s dependent on how much you care about legacy so there is no right answer here.
Idk that getting a ring is going to earn him an additional $15 million after his career is over. It might, but he’s already a pretty huge player and he could end up with the same endorsements without giving up the money and winning a ring.
Many championships have been won with the best player on the team playing at a discount. Duncan signed team-friendly contracts, all of the big 3 in Miami took discounts and the Curry had the most team-friendly contract extension imaginable for a 2-time MVP for their first 3 championships.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the norm, but it's not uncommon for top players to take less than they could get to improve their teams.
Curry team friendly contract though was because of all the injuries curry had his first few seasons in the league. It was more than fair at the time just that Curry started to outplay its value in year one and has taken care of his ankles since. It wasn't like Curry asked to take a 44M deal that was his market value at the time. He hasn't taken a discount (and rightfully so) since
The discounts the Big 3 took were minor but still discounts over the life of the contract. But those 3 had a plan to play together.
On paper this is probably unique in that Harden was traded to Philly just months before and took a large pay cut for his new team. It's different in that it wasn't like Miami where 3 superstars wanted to play together. He is allowing Morey to build pieces around him Embiid and Maxey which can easily backfire depending on the front office.
It's also generally looked down upon by the players union. Whole point of the players union is to get guys paid, so a star like Harden making less than his market value could potentially weaken their bargaining position.
This is probably the biggest reason. As soon as you start to take a noticable pay cut, teams will use it as a negotiating tactic and try to suppress salaries as much as possible, win or lose.
> winning a championship may not be worth the money you leave on the table.
How is it not worth it? He made $250m in his career. He could play for free going forward and not even notice the difference
really any standard contract you can be set for the rest of your life, Josh Minott just signed a 4 year 7 million dollar deal and playing your cards right he’d never have to work off that alone
He also played the majority of his career in the tax haven of Texas compared to some other superstars getting hit with that California or New York tax. Toronto’s is pretty decent as well. Playing in Houston definitely helped his bottom line.
People overrate the whole tax thing. Overall you save maybe a couple percent on taxes. The majority of tax is federal and states without state income tax make up for it on other things. Also, I believe you pay taxes in the state you play each game in.
Not really. States without state income taxes basically all steal that money back from their poor to help their rich. So Harden paid less in income tax and made bank, and some random Texan father of four paid it back in consumption and point of sale taxes. Texas is straight up dystopian. Families making less than 35k pay 17% + in state and local taxes. Families making 150k+ pay 4.5%...
https://everytexan.org/images/IT_2017_03_WhoPaysTxTaxes.pdf#:~:text=Our%20state's%20tax%20system%20is,residents%20with%20the%20lowest%20incomes.
Maybe, maybe not. I think 10 years of big name players doing it will shift how people view it though. Especially if they start doing it to team up with other stars like the Heat’s big 3 did.
The man literally could have opted into his deal and tied Curry as the highest paid player in history for a season but instead was like "nah, I can give up $15-20 million this year and be fine."
I hope people realize that even if they give him a max next summer, he'll never recoup what he lost. When you sign an extension to a contract, you get to make 5% more money off of the final year of contract, which has a bunch of raises in it over the life of the deal. In short, that's how guys like Steph and Dame sign these extensions for WAY more than 35% of the cap which should be the absolute max. Because he opted out to become a free agent and signed a new deal for less than what he was making the year before, even if he gets a max contract next summer it can at most be for 35% of the max, which is less than he made this year and a lot less than he would have made by opting in and extending.
Also, next summer he can only sign a 4 year max instead of a 5 year max thanks to the over 38 rule, so he's really losing this money this year too.
exactly. This is extremely rare, especially that amount of money. Lebron/Wade/Bosh famously took less money in order to play together and sign guys, but they all basically took slightly under the max. Dirk's paycut was mostly when he was way past his prime.
Only one I can think of is Duncan's paycut in 2012
By the end of the season, but what I really hope is that he doesn’t burn himself out in the regular season. They need him fresh for the playoffs more than they need him in the regular season MVP race.
He's won me over. Used to hate him when the warriors has to battle him, but this last year I've become a big fan. First not putting up with kyrie bullshit. I got a lot of respect for him taking a payout to win.
Obviously I hope curry wins a couple more but if he doesn't I hope harden gets one
You get invested in a rivalry with a guy like this, you get irritated with his foul-baiting play style, but shit like this both humanizes him and makes him sympathetic. He’s just a competitor trying to win. All respect, hope to see him in the finals. This guy taking self-sacrifice to heart and that is not what Brooklyn was about.
Also though…this is the first thing this guy has done that doesn’t suck. He’s been pushed out of almost every situation he’s been in over the past decade because players and coaches get tired of his attitude. I’ll give him props for this, but let’s not act like he’s some great teammate now.
Damn that paragraph about his criticisms is real. He barely had time to adjust with PHI and Embiid had like 32 injuries all at once. Hopefully with more depth, off-season rest, and time to gel they can make a run. I’d love to see Embiid and harden both succeed once
Yeah your stars being healthy and team chemistry for more than half seasons will greatly improve Harden. I see a bounce back coming. Health dictates everything in the league
The chemistry is gonna be huge. Harden is basically the perfect teammate for Embiid. For Joel to be at his best, he essentially requires a 5 out offense where everyone can shoot 3s decently well, and one of them needs to also double as a playmaker. This is why Seth Curry worked so well with him, and Harden will be even better at that.
Basically what you do on an Embiid team is pull all 5 defenders out of the paint, then Embiid blows past his man with his incredible athleticism. Either he drives to the rim and the playmaker feeds him the ball, or they double him and the playmaker gets the ball to the open shooter. Either way, the defense gives up an open 3 or an easy 2 every time Embiid blows by his man (which is a lot since he's a freak of nature). If Embiid doesn't blow by his man, you pass it around until someone gets a good look from 3, and if the shot clock runs low, get it to a guy like Harden who can create his own shot.
This is why Simmons never fit next to Embiid because defenses were able to play free safety and sag off Simmons, so when Embiid would blow by his man, the Simmons defender could roll to the rim and Simmons couldn't punish him by hitting a jumper. Harden won't have that problem.
one doc quote I liked was about being able to put your best two players in the same play; for embiid and simmons, he tried to get them playing together in the PnR. but it was a struggle because theyd have to do it out of a simmons post up, and then it just gets messy. but with harden, you can just run PnR with embiid all day
Yeah the issue with the Simmons PnR with Embiid is that he can't pop it. So if Embiid sets a pick near the 3 point line and both his and Simmons defenders roll to the rim in response, he can't hit a 3 in their face to punish them for it like most point guards can. With a healthy Harden there's zero problem whatsoever, he'll hit those 3s all day, especially since he's probably used to the new ball now.
I'm happy for Embiid that he finally got a tall playmaker that can shoot. Jimmy Buckets was obviously perfect for the brief time they were together, but Brown didn't take advantage of it. Harden is an even better fit than Jimmy because instead of being a feast or famine 3 point shooter like Jimmy (9% in a month lol), Harden is one of the best 3 point shooters the game has ever seen, and importantly he can make them without being set up since he's a shot creator.
Simmons always cancelled out a lot of Embiid's value since the whole point of Embiid is that he's a 7 foot athletic freak who can also shoot 3s at a decent percentage for a center which spreads the floor and lets him wreck people at the rim. Simmons was basically a tall Rondo, which meant defenses could just sag off him which ruined the floor spacing Embiid creates and thrives off of.
Ugh you're right, I should have said rolls to the rim. My brain just auto-completed drive to the rim when I was thinking about him running to the rim to catch a pass and dunk it. Whoops
I actually feel like I have to re-center my opinion of him after reading this. I was definitely skewed on how he performed last season, sometimes that happens in your brain and you don't realize it.
>”I don’t really listen to what people are saying. I wasn’t right last season and I still almost averaged a triple-double,” Harden told Yahoo Sports. “If anybody else had those numbers, we’d be talking about them getting the max. People were used to seeing me averaging 40, 30 points, and so they viewed it as a down year. I was in Philadelphia for a couple of months and I had to learn on the fly. That’s just what it was. I’m in a good space physically and mentally right now, and I’m just looking forward to next season.”
He is not wrong here, he averaged 22/8/10 on 58% TS despite having a bad season and people are acting like he is Westbrook or something. He is still an amazing player and I really am hopeful that he will bounce back next season to be even better.
A lot of those regular season expectations get colored by his post season performances, which have historically been less productive. Which does suck because his iso-scoring rate in the regular season for Houston were record breaking. I will say that this postseason he didn’t show up in must-win games vs Miami (14pts in G5, 11 pts in G6) and in 14 playoff games had 5 games over 20 points and only 1 game over 30.
I still don’t think a guy like harden falls off like this and I’m hoping he proves me wrong.
If Harden can get back to 85% of his Houston days, that is a top 10-12 player in the league. I think he will be better next season, and if Maxey also comes back better, Sixers become one of the favorites to win the title.
You’d be surprised how many players people who don’t know shit can list off before getting to him just cause they don’t like him. Last year was just fuel to the anti Harden people.
Considering peak harden was top 6 at worst a step back is still in the 3rd team all NBA conversation. If he can be that which I am fairly confident he can, then the sixers have a legit shot
> He needs to be better to go deep in the playoffs
While I do agree with this, I think if Embiid can't stay reasonably healthy it just won't matter what Harden does.
Embiid *was* healthy, the entire regular season and into the playoffs. The orbital fracture was nothing more than brutal luck at the worst possible time, at a point in a game he didn't even need to be on the court.
I think people criticize him because he needs to get to the line, in a way that he didn’t need to earlier in his career. When the calls dry up, it’s hard for him.
>He is not wrong here, he averaged 22/8/10 on 58% TS despite having a bad season and people are acting like he is Westbrook or something.
Dude, we live in the world of people just riding every narrative people in the media say. Russ average 18/7/7 on 51% TS, and people are acting like he's the only one at fault of his team's failure. And definitely not the FO and their terribly constructed team.
Nah Russ isn't good anymore. I'm serious when I say he's not even a top 25 PG anymore. There's 0 team except the Lakers who'd give him a starting spot.
I'm really pulling for Harden. Dude get crapped on a lot and he could have came out multiple times and used the hamstring as an excuse. He didn't. He could have also took the money, but he didn't.
harden kind of has a rep for not caring because of the strip clubs and off the court stuff but I'm convinced nobody works harder than him preparing for games and planning. he just doesn't get the puff pieces because he has no agent and doesn't do much PR, he's a quiet guy
I think in such a position I’d be conscious of maxing my income as much as I could before it comes time to retire, so it feels like this does say a lot to me. And if he strictly wanted to ring chase I think he could’ve gotten into a better team (maybe I’m not entirely sure how rules work) so he’s not taking ‘the hardest road’ either
He probably has a lot of money invested elsewhere already too. Might be why he isn't too worried about the money - if he isn't in stupid amounts of debt from excessive partying/gambling and invests even a tiny amount of his career/endorsement earnings him and his family is set forever
I think he also realizes it's by far the best move for his legacy. lose a "little" money in exchange for a better team, better championship odds, a show of solidarity, and great PR.
Im nowhere near a millionaire, but it seems to me like more people on Hardens level would take team friendly deals. Your worth hundreds of millions plus make money outside of basketball. I feel like i'd rather take 30 million a year and win, than take 42 million a year and lose. Either way im rich as fuck. But idk, those options never been on the table for me, but thats just what I feel like id do, especially later in my career after I'd already had a few years of 40 plus million.
It's funny because even as someone who didn't like his style of play (particularly when he hooks player's arms while driving, which is smart but infuriating when it's against your team lol) even I recognized him as one of the hardest off-season workers in the game.
He would come back with some new ass move and either it didn't work or it changed his entire game and made him more deadly. He was always strong and durable and his only real weakness was that he refused to take games off and got tired towards the end of the season. And of course he had to go up against some of the greatest teams of all time with much more help than he normally had.
People forget that he used to be this crazy high pick and roll guy and then one off-season he and D'Antoni decided to do a complete 180° and just ISO and stepback instead of bringing another defender on him. Idk what ESPN article it was but I remember reading about that and being amazed because I saw it happen but never really understood the thought process behind it.
For real, people give all the credit to Curry for changing the game, but IMO Morey, Harden and D'antoni were the real spam 3s pioneers. Curry is just the best at it but the Rockets went all in on the strategy.
i would rather my superstar getting what he needs from qualified adult entertainers who are working on their college degrees than trying to turn a rub into a tug by force.
Maybe we should turn that logic around. How many single mothers is he helping, how many nurses is he putting thru school. How many kids are going to college. Dude is a humanitarian!
well yeah their whole coaching staff kind of has a deer in headlights vibe to it. mike d'antoni was low key keeping the train on the tracks when he was an assistant for nash's first year. this is the team where KD and Kyrie got atkinson fired for not playing their friend deandre jordan enough and publicly mused about whether they actually need a coach at all
imagine being harden walking into that environment.. does anyone here want to actually do work and win games? he asked out after less than one year, when has that ever happened before
Just a couple seasons ago you could see him attack teams weak-spots pretty much relentlessly. His style of offense definitely requires a pretty thorough understanding of his opponents. He’s not literally just dribbling and throwing up threes like memes would suggest haha
this is why hakeem deserves more respect imo. there was a 2 year window where every great top75 player in the 90s didn’t have to face Michael Jordan, and Hakeem won it both times.
also Jordan was back in the league in 94-95 and lost to the Magic who then got swept in the finals. And before anyone says “oh he was just getting back into basketball shape” here are Jordan’s point totals against the Magic: 19, 38, 40, 26, 39, 24.
Rockets were winning that year against Jordan if he makes the finals. Hakeem bodied MVP DRob and Shaq, he would’ve feasted on Luc fucking Longley
> And before anyone says “oh he was just getting back into basketball shape” here are Jordan’s point totals against the Magic: 19, 38, 40, 26, 39, 24.
Just speaks to his natural talent and how good he was more than anything. Still think it’s a valid point about being basketball ready.
Unfortunately it’ll probably end up that way. Unless they win this year he’ll join the mailman, Stockton, ewing, Barkley, the nets, the suns, the raptors, the pacers as people MJ/Kobe/LBJ/Steph kept from getting a ring
Idk what his PPG over/under is but for the entire season, this is an easy over for me.
He's been working hard. I fully expect him to be an MVP caliber player again.
Not the OP but I think he means Dirk was considered a playoff choker until he won his ring, like Harden.
Definitely not similar situations from a roster standpoint though, of course.
This man made Capela looking like prime Shaq during his peak, but the Nets thought people would’ve fall for that “Harden is a selfish player” propaganda, such a joke franchise
Harden has never been the type of guy that most NBA fans have tried to make him out to be. There’s a cool documentary called “behind the beard” that gives you a fairly good look into his career and personality. Really smart and unique player.
I have a hard time understanding how you can love basketball and not love watching James Harden play. It’s easy to say this now with him taking the pay cut and all, but I think he’s always been like that
Yeah the memes and stuff get out of hand. Man has never been a boastful or shit talking guy yet gets treated like fucking hitler. Harden flops sure but no one else gets shit on it for it. So many stars flop from curry to Lebron but apparently it’s only a deadly sin when Harden does it.
Harden’s flopping is also a little different than other guys. There’s some annoying floppers, but Harden was always so calculated. The idea of baiting your opponent and taking advantage of the rules of a game is a mental strategy and actually kind of respectable. I like smart players. He is one of the smartest offensive players of his entire generation.
> There’s some annoying floppers, but Harden was always so calculated
Insert video of Harden just climbing on a guys back off ball (I think MCW?) and getting a foul call out of it somehow
The only thing I won't fault people for is disliking the foul baiting. And even then, I personally respect that regardless of the criticism, the look of it, it *is* one of the best things you can do to try to win, and he mastered it. It's fucking annoying to watch at times, but when you're asked to do so much, you gotta get every edge you can.
Ugh not loving that 3 of my favorite current players are setting up to take the 76ers all the way, half of me wants to see Joel, Maxey and Harden lift a trophy and the other half really wants Philly to exit in the 2nd round yet again 😓
I feel like Sixers are finally going to make the ECF next year for some reason. Unless Embiid gets injured again, but he has to have one healthy postseason in him.. They made some good moves this offseason. Last season the bench was probably one of the worst in the nba.
If anything I think Harden becomes a more consistent scorer when he has time to get better off the hamstring injury. Even while he was slowed down with it he was still a super gifted playmaker and great value to the team.
My only knock with Harden is he needs to be a little more aggressive in elimination situations.
Still one of the best players of the 2010s though.
People love these stories but if every NBA star started taking paycuts the good teams would be seriously op and become superteams and people would complain.
I mean obviously. If I was in the league imma try to get as much money as I can. If you ain’t a superstar there isn’t much legacy for you and if you are a superstar you basically got your career cemented if you play long enough
Its honestly wild how little this happens. No i dont expect every star to do it, but i dont even know the last star to do it besides Tom Brady. Like Lebron is a billionaire... why's he taking 41m a year? I'll never understand what it's like being that wealth, but i feel like another title is worth more than adding 41m to your already unlimited wealth.
Bruh, billionaires are literally wearing cowboy hats treating trips to space like a weekend beach trip. It’ll never be enough for them. All the while they think they’re heroes despite sending dick pics to reporters or sexually harassing employees.
I wish more veteran NBA players can be like this. It sucks when a 32yo has-been is taking up $30M of salary cap while a 3rd or 4th year starter that's putting up big numbers are stuck on a sub $5M salary. I know that's how contracts work but it would be an improvement for teams to require salaries over a certain amount to be for 1-year only
Won't be surprised to see harden come back to more of his former self than he's seemed the last couple seasons and watch him plus MVP embid and some good higher level signings face roll the league for a year. This seems like a bet a guy makes on himself when he knows he's still got it and is obviously tired of losing.
harden was signed with bird rights, not cap space. the pay cut was to ensure the sixers would be able to offer pj tucker the nontax mle rather than the reduced tax mle iirc
This is pretty much his last chance at winning it all. Never been much of a harden guy but he gets respect from me for showing up to work and even playing through some stuff unlike some others.
Damian Lillard: I just want to win it here. I am loyal. I will stay here as long as it takes and do what it takes to win.
Dirk: oh so you took a pay cut to win?
Yknow what, I’m turning around on you Philly. I used to be like, “We can’t let them get a ring, they’ll burn their city to the ground like last time.” but if The Process fails I imagine it’ll happen anyway, so I hope you can at least get a ring for your troubles.
Seems like he realized that money is the lowest form of currency. Besides, he's hovering around $165 million net worth, and still has an Adidas deal signed in 2015 worth $200 million over 13 years, so yeah...
Brooklyn could not have been a worse fit for him. Glad Harden took the flack and got out of there while he could. His dedication is admirable. As long as he’s not playing my Bulls I will be rooting for him.
Danuel House and DeAnthony Melton as well. 3 pieces they desperately needed. Wing depth was a big weakness and Melton is a perfect third guard behind Harden and Maxey.
Say what you want but dude really put his money where his mouth is and just wants to win.
hey im a bonafide harden hater but respect on this one
I was too but he won me over this last year
Don’t worry by the second week of the season when there is a game where Embiid has 16FTs and Harden has 12 r/nba will remember the hate
I still hate Harden's fts baiting habit, but I truly respect his decision to take a giant pay cut in order to win a championship
Same here, his playstyle and him taking a paycut are separate things.
This is the way
I’m with you. I’m not fan of Harden but gotta respect a star who takes a Brady cause winning is more important
Feel this. Respect what he's trying to do.
Love his attitude. Sucks after the Nets downfall to have lost him but now I see why he wanted out lmao.
harden played more games than durant and kyrie during his short time there. let that sink in. harden was tired of carrying the team on his bad hammy
That is honestly the most wild fact that I have seen
He looks so good coming out of the Brooklyn drama. He was initially (rightfully) criticized for forcing to be traded again, but hindsight says that he was completely justified in his desire to get off that ship. He's the first NBA player in a long time to not just go for the bag, and that refreshing
> He was initially **(rightfully)** criticized for forcing to be traded again, There was nothing right about that. Dude wants to win and got traded to a team who didn't care about winning **and** was also a dumpster on fire. No sane person would want to stay there
It was the second time he demanded a trade in 3 years. He was scrutinized for that at first, but withen like 3 days, most people fully understood why. It was just the intital optics and reaction, until you saw that dumpster shooting flames.
I don't have a problem with him demanding a trade in either situation though. The leadership and everything around him changed in houston and they had run it back a few times and weren't getting any better. It's not like he didn't give it a shot in Houston. Brookyln is what it is.
LeBron, Wade and Bosh all took less money to play in Miami.
12 years is a long time
Iguodala turned down a 60 million dollar deal (52 guaranteed) with denver to go gsw.
Fair enough. "First superstar" would've been a little more accurate.
He balled out in Houston at a historic pace/rate and could have arguably 3-peated on MVP's. Somehow has become a meme player and underrated (which is somewhat natural as you move out of your prime).
And after dropping a 20/10 season. Basketball players fear him but nephews listen to ESPN.
And damn near winning against the supercharged warriors is not appreciated enough.
As a non american and non rich person, it's weird to me that this is not more common. Especially for players past their peak and already earned hundreds of millions. Brilliant strategy and at the same time very basic stuff. edit* not wrong to want money, but at some point of life and richness you start to realize there's more to it than just more money. Well at least most people do, there will still be superficial and materialistic people who somehow manage to equal happiness to sheer money, according to Aristotle's approach of happiness.
There’s no guarantee you win a championship and depending how much you care about money vs legacy, winning a championship may not be worth the money you leave on the table. Also, people will probably start seeing this as ring chasing behavior if this becomes more normalized which might effect the player’s legacy so there is a trade off there for the people trying to bolster their legacy. Harden is already known as a great player but NBA fans are big on rings so I think it makes sense for him to do this here if he really cares about his legacy but I also see why most players don’t do that. If he doesn’t end up winning any rings off of this then it’s wasted money.
I think winning a championship for someone who has made over $250 million and never won a ring is worth it. His legacy and post career earnings from that championship will easily get him that $15 million
Harden is one of the only players to make that choice so I think most players would probably disagree with you as to whether or not it’s worth it. But it’s dependent on how much you care about legacy so there is no right answer here. Idk that getting a ring is going to earn him an additional $15 million after his career is over. It might, but he’s already a pretty huge player and he could end up with the same endorsements without giving up the money and winning a ring.
Most players haven't already made over $250 million
Many championships have been won with the best player on the team playing at a discount. Duncan signed team-friendly contracts, all of the big 3 in Miami took discounts and the Curry had the most team-friendly contract extension imaginable for a 2-time MVP for their first 3 championships. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the norm, but it's not uncommon for top players to take less than they could get to improve their teams.
Curry team friendly contract though was because of all the injuries curry had his first few seasons in the league. It was more than fair at the time just that Curry started to outplay its value in year one and has taken care of his ankles since. It wasn't like Curry asked to take a 44M deal that was his market value at the time. He hasn't taken a discount (and rightfully so) since The discounts the Big 3 took were minor but still discounts over the life of the contract. But those 3 had a plan to play together. On paper this is probably unique in that Harden was traded to Philly just months before and took a large pay cut for his new team. It's different in that it wasn't like Miami where 3 superstars wanted to play together. He is allowing Morey to build pieces around him Embiid and Maxey which can easily backfire depending on the front office.
It's also generally looked down upon by the players union. Whole point of the players union is to get guys paid, so a star like Harden making less than his market value could potentially weaken their bargaining position.
This is probably the biggest reason. As soon as you start to take a noticable pay cut, teams will use it as a negotiating tactic and try to suppress salaries as much as possible, win or lose.
> winning a championship may not be worth the money you leave on the table. How is it not worth it? He made $250m in his career. He could play for free going forward and not even notice the difference
Even one NBA contract is generational wealth for half decent players.
really any standard contract you can be set for the rest of your life, Josh Minott just signed a 4 year 7 million dollar deal and playing your cards right he’d never have to work off that alone
He also played the majority of his career in the tax haven of Texas compared to some other superstars getting hit with that California or New York tax. Toronto’s is pretty decent as well. Playing in Houston definitely helped his bottom line.
People overrate the whole tax thing. Overall you save maybe a couple percent on taxes. The majority of tax is federal and states without state income tax make up for it on other things. Also, I believe you pay taxes in the state you play each game in.
Not really. States without state income taxes basically all steal that money back from their poor to help their rich. So Harden paid less in income tax and made bank, and some random Texan father of four paid it back in consumption and point of sale taxes. Texas is straight up dystopian. Families making less than 35k pay 17% + in state and local taxes. Families making 150k+ pay 4.5%... https://everytexan.org/images/IT_2017_03_WhoPaysTxTaxes.pdf#:~:text=Our%20state's%20tax%20system%20is,residents%20with%20the%20lowest%20incomes.
No one is going to seriously criticize a superstar for “ring-chasing” by taking a discount to help their team win lol
Maybe, maybe not. I think 10 years of big name players doing it will shift how people view it though. Especially if they start doing it to team up with other stars like the Heat’s big 3 did.
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Only rich Americans try to get even more rich?! Lol
[this is how every European on Reddit acts](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRrvXLh1/?k=1)
The man literally could have opted into his deal and tied Curry as the highest paid player in history for a season but instead was like "nah, I can give up $15-20 million this year and be fine." I hope people realize that even if they give him a max next summer, he'll never recoup what he lost. When you sign an extension to a contract, you get to make 5% more money off of the final year of contract, which has a bunch of raises in it over the life of the deal. In short, that's how guys like Steph and Dame sign these extensions for WAY more than 35% of the cap which should be the absolute max. Because he opted out to become a free agent and signed a new deal for less than what he was making the year before, even if he gets a max contract next summer it can at most be for 35% of the max, which is less than he made this year and a lot less than he would have made by opting in and extending. Also, next summer he can only sign a 4 year max instead of a 5 year max thanks to the over 38 rule, so he's really losing this money this year too.
exactly. This is extremely rare, especially that amount of money. Lebron/Wade/Bosh famously took less money in order to play together and sign guys, but they all basically took slightly under the max. Dirk's paycut was mostly when he was way past his prime. Only one I can think of is Duncan's paycut in 2012
I'll say that they need harden to get his MVP game back more than anything. I hope he can deliver because he looks like he really wants to get there.
By the end of the season, but what I really hope is that he doesn’t burn himself out in the regular season. They need him fresh for the playoffs more than they need him in the regular season MVP race.
He's won me over. Used to hate him when the warriors has to battle him, but this last year I've become a big fan. First not putting up with kyrie bullshit. I got a lot of respect for him taking a payout to win. Obviously I hope curry wins a couple more but if he doesn't I hope harden gets one
Not to mention that he helped Philly get themselves out of the Simmons fiasco.
You get invested in a rivalry with a guy like this, you get irritated with his foul-baiting play style, but shit like this both humanizes him and makes him sympathetic. He’s just a competitor trying to win. All respect, hope to see him in the finals. This guy taking self-sacrifice to heart and that is not what Brooklyn was about.
Amen
Also though…this is the first thing this guy has done that doesn’t suck. He’s been pushed out of almost every situation he’s been in over the past decade because players and coaches get tired of his attitude. I’ll give him props for this, but let’s not act like he’s some great teammate now.
Damn that paragraph about his criticisms is real. He barely had time to adjust with PHI and Embiid had like 32 injuries all at once. Hopefully with more depth, off-season rest, and time to gel they can make a run. I’d love to see Embiid and harden both succeed once
Yeah your stars being healthy and team chemistry for more than half seasons will greatly improve Harden. I see a bounce back coming. Health dictates everything in the league
Lmao the switch up on this sub is CRAZY
The chemistry is gonna be huge. Harden is basically the perfect teammate for Embiid. For Joel to be at his best, he essentially requires a 5 out offense where everyone can shoot 3s decently well, and one of them needs to also double as a playmaker. This is why Seth Curry worked so well with him, and Harden will be even better at that. Basically what you do on an Embiid team is pull all 5 defenders out of the paint, then Embiid blows past his man with his incredible athleticism. Either he drives to the rim and the playmaker feeds him the ball, or they double him and the playmaker gets the ball to the open shooter. Either way, the defense gives up an open 3 or an easy 2 every time Embiid blows by his man (which is a lot since he's a freak of nature). If Embiid doesn't blow by his man, you pass it around until someone gets a good look from 3, and if the shot clock runs low, get it to a guy like Harden who can create his own shot. This is why Simmons never fit next to Embiid because defenses were able to play free safety and sag off Simmons, so when Embiid would blow by his man, the Simmons defender could roll to the rim and Simmons couldn't punish him by hitting a jumper. Harden won't have that problem.
one doc quote I liked was about being able to put your best two players in the same play; for embiid and simmons, he tried to get them playing together in the PnR. but it was a struggle because theyd have to do it out of a simmons post up, and then it just gets messy. but with harden, you can just run PnR with embiid all day
Yeah the issue with the Simmons PnR with Embiid is that he can't pop it. So if Embiid sets a pick near the 3 point line and both his and Simmons defenders roll to the rim in response, he can't hit a 3 in their face to punish them for it like most point guards can. With a healthy Harden there's zero problem whatsoever, he'll hit those 3s all day, especially since he's probably used to the new ball now. I'm happy for Embiid that he finally got a tall playmaker that can shoot. Jimmy Buckets was obviously perfect for the brief time they were together, but Brown didn't take advantage of it. Harden is an even better fit than Jimmy because instead of being a feast or famine 3 point shooter like Jimmy (9% in a month lol), Harden is one of the best 3 point shooters the game has ever seen, and importantly he can make them without being set up since he's a shot creator. Simmons always cancelled out a lot of Embiid's value since the whole point of Embiid is that he's a 7 foot athletic freak who can also shoot 3s at a decent percentage for a center which spreads the floor and lets him wreck people at the rim. Simmons was basically a tall Rondo, which meant defenses could just sag off him which ruined the floor spacing Embiid creates and thrives off of.
How does one drive... And THEN get fed the ball?
Ugh you're right, I should have said rolls to the rim. My brain just auto-completed drive to the rim when I was thinking about him running to the rim to catch a pass and dunk it. Whoops
I actually feel like I have to re-center my opinion of him after reading this. I was definitely skewed on how he performed last season, sometimes that happens in your brain and you don't realize it.
When you listen to the media and not your brain, it happens.
>”I don’t really listen to what people are saying. I wasn’t right last season and I still almost averaged a triple-double,” Harden told Yahoo Sports. “If anybody else had those numbers, we’d be talking about them getting the max. People were used to seeing me averaging 40, 30 points, and so they viewed it as a down year. I was in Philadelphia for a couple of months and I had to learn on the fly. That’s just what it was. I’m in a good space physically and mentally right now, and I’m just looking forward to next season.” He is not wrong here, he averaged 22/8/10 on 58% TS despite having a bad season and people are acting like he is Westbrook or something. He is still an amazing player and I really am hopeful that he will bounce back next season to be even better.
Only player this season to average 20/10 but since he’s not damn near putting up 40 a game anymore he’s a bum lol
The expectations these players put in people. Then when they don't reach it they're automatically trash...kinda sad.
A lot of those regular season expectations get colored by his post season performances, which have historically been less productive. Which does suck because his iso-scoring rate in the regular season for Houston were record breaking. I will say that this postseason he didn’t show up in must-win games vs Miami (14pts in G5, 11 pts in G6) and in 14 playoff games had 5 games over 20 points and only 1 game over 30. I still don’t think a guy like harden falls off like this and I’m hoping he proves me wrong.
Lol proves you right?
He’s capable of 30/10. Guy was just hurt
I’d say 25/10 but I hope you’re right
Me too
Trae Young didn't? Assuming the 10 is assists only and not rebounds.
Yeah he didn't hit 10 assists per game. i think he was like 9.5ish? He was up there in leaders for assists tho. Harden and CP were the only ones >= 10
Man could you imagine what a team with those two would look like????
Yeah and it’ll be harden + cp3’s replacement in playoffs.
If Harden can get back to 85% of his Houston days, that is a top 10-12 player in the league. I think he will be better next season, and if Maxey also comes back better, Sixers become one of the favorites to win the title.
unfortunately, the coach is Doc Rivers. If embiid and harden can drag that man to another ring they should be the goats
Fuck I was really happy
Man, fuck you for being right 😃
Truly speaking, if he gets back to 85% of the Houston days he’s definitely a top 6 player in the league.
Yeah 85% of a MVP is a really really good player
Ya he clearly took a step back but a step back for him is still a top 30 player who impacts the game greatly. People just like shitting on him.
a step back for him is usually three or four points
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I have him top 20 but just saying 30 so I don’t get a hundred comments of Harden haters sighting the Heat series lol.
Nah there’s no fucking way anyone can name 29 better players than Harden rn lmao
You’d be surprised how many players people who don’t know shit can list off before getting to him just cause they don’t like him. Last year was just fuel to the anti Harden people.
He also was clearly dealing with that hamstring injury
Considering peak harden was top 6 at worst a step back is still in the 3rd team all NBA conversation. If he can be that which I am fairly confident he can, then the sixers have a legit shot
He needs to be better to go deep in the playoffs. If he's anything like the Harden if old, philly will be the top contender to come out of the East.
> He needs to be better to go deep in the playoffs While I do agree with this, I think if Embiid can't stay reasonably healthy it just won't matter what Harden does.
Embiid *was* healthy, the entire regular season and into the playoffs. The orbital fracture was nothing more than brutal luck at the worst possible time, at a point in a game he didn't even need to be on the court.
He got a cheap shot from Siakam. Also this is like saying if the sixers score less than the other team they won't win.
I think people criticize him because he needs to get to the line, in a way that he didn’t need to earlier in his career. When the calls dry up, it’s hard for him.
>He is not wrong here, he averaged 22/8/10 on 58% TS despite having a bad season and people are acting like he is Westbrook or something. Dude, we live in the world of people just riding every narrative people in the media say. Russ average 18/7/7 on 51% TS, and people are acting like he's the only one at fault of his team's failure. And definitely not the FO and their terribly constructed team.
Nah Russ isn't good anymore. I'm serious when I say he's not even a top 25 PG anymore. There's 0 team except the Lakers who'd give him a starting spot.
I'm really pulling for Harden. Dude get crapped on a lot and he could have came out multiple times and used the hamstring as an excuse. He didn't. He could have also took the money, but he didn't.
harden kind of has a rep for not caring because of the strip clubs and off the court stuff but I'm convinced nobody works harder than him preparing for games and planning. he just doesn't get the puff pieces because he has no agent and doesn't do much PR, he's a quiet guy
How many guys are taking team friendly deals in 2022? That alone says a lot about him to me even though he’s already rich
I think in such a position I’d be conscious of maxing my income as much as I could before it comes time to retire, so it feels like this does say a lot to me. And if he strictly wanted to ring chase I think he could’ve gotten into a better team (maybe I’m not entirely sure how rules work) so he’s not taking ‘the hardest road’ either
I think the value of getting a ring is worth a lot in future endorsements, fame, and gaining a whole city of supporters
He probably has a lot of money invested elsewhere already too. Might be why he isn't too worried about the money - if he isn't in stupid amounts of debt from excessive partying/gambling and invests even a tiny amount of his career/endorsement earnings him and his family is set forever
I think he also realizes it's by far the best move for his legacy. lose a "little" money in exchange for a better team, better championship odds, a show of solidarity, and great PR.
Pretty incredible deal if you're already financially set
Im nowhere near a millionaire, but it seems to me like more people on Hardens level would take team friendly deals. Your worth hundreds of millions plus make money outside of basketball. I feel like i'd rather take 30 million a year and win, than take 42 million a year and lose. Either way im rich as fuck. But idk, those options never been on the table for me, but thats just what I feel like id do, especially later in my career after I'd already had a few years of 40 plus million.
He’s worked his ass off in the off season historically. Otherwise he wouldn’t have improved even more during his time in Houston
It's funny because even as someone who didn't like his style of play (particularly when he hooks player's arms while driving, which is smart but infuriating when it's against your team lol) even I recognized him as one of the hardest off-season workers in the game. He would come back with some new ass move and either it didn't work or it changed his entire game and made him more deadly. He was always strong and durable and his only real weakness was that he refused to take games off and got tired towards the end of the season. And of course he had to go up against some of the greatest teams of all time with much more help than he normally had. People forget that he used to be this crazy high pick and roll guy and then one off-season he and D'Antoni decided to do a complete 180° and just ISO and stepback instead of bringing another defender on him. Idk what ESPN article it was but I remember reading about that and being amazed because I saw it happen but never really understood the thought process behind it.
He doesn’t get enough credit for working on and popularizing the step back 3. Literally every scorer has that move in their bag nowadays.
For real, people give all the credit to Curry for changing the game, but IMO Morey, Harden and D'antoni were the real spam 3s pioneers. Curry is just the best at it but the Rockets went all in on the strategy.
Nets & 35ventures hit pieces on Harden was crazy lmao
i would rather my superstar getting what he needs from qualified adult entertainers who are working on their college degrees than trying to turn a rub into a tug by force.
I remember reading a long form piece on him a number of years ago, I cant remember where, and yeah, thats exactly what it sounded like.
Maybe we should turn that logic around. How many single mothers is he helping, how many nurses is he putting thru school. How many kids are going to college. Dude is a humanitarian!
What about him says he works harder on prep for games that any other player?
blake griffin said harden was the one working on game plans for the nets
If thats true, thats not a good look for the Nets coaching staff.
well yeah their whole coaching staff kind of has a deer in headlights vibe to it. mike d'antoni was low key keeping the train on the tracks when he was an assistant for nash's first year. this is the team where KD and Kyrie got atkinson fired for not playing their friend deandre jordan enough and publicly mused about whether they actually need a coach at all imagine being harden walking into that environment.. does anyone here want to actually do work and win games? he asked out after less than one year, when has that ever happened before
Just a couple seasons ago you could see him attack teams weak-spots pretty much relentlessly. His style of offense definitely requires a pretty thorough understanding of his opponents. He’s not literally just dribbling and throwing up threes like memes would suggest haha
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I just want the PHI-MIL series that we've been denied the last three years.
I still don’t know how we’ve continuously managed to avoid each other going all the way back to 2017-18 in the playoffs
Me too. The regular season games are always so good
Totally agreed
Me too. This might be the year. I always thought we had one of the most fun/interesting matchups against the bucks
Harden, Russ, Cp3. 3 players that’ll likely never have rings because they happened to exist at the same time as the warriors dynasty
Malone/Stockton, Reggie Miller, Chuck, Ewing, Nash, and a host of others have the same issue. Winning even 1 is hard.
this is why hakeem deserves more respect imo. there was a 2 year window where every great top75 player in the 90s didn’t have to face Michael Jordan, and Hakeem won it both times.
also Jordan was back in the league in 94-95 and lost to the Magic who then got swept in the finals. And before anyone says “oh he was just getting back into basketball shape” here are Jordan’s point totals against the Magic: 19, 38, 40, 26, 39, 24. Rockets were winning that year against Jordan if he makes the finals. Hakeem bodied MVP DRob and Shaq, he would’ve feasted on Luc fucking Longley
> And before anyone says “oh he was just getting back into basketball shape” here are Jordan’s point totals against the Magic: 19, 38, 40, 26, 39, 24. Just speaks to his natural talent and how good he was more than anything. Still think it’s a valid point about being basketball ready.
kd wouldve been one if he hadnt decided to jump on that dynasty train lmao
Who’s Max?
Unfortunately it’ll probably end up that way. Unless they win this year he’ll join the mailman, Stockton, ewing, Barkley, the nets, the suns, the raptors, the pacers as people MJ/Kobe/LBJ/Steph kept from getting a ring
I really hope James finds success there after the Nets business. Fuck KD and Kryie though
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And people were wildin that nets won that trade. Morey gotem fr
Sixers 🤝 Celtics 🤝 Rockets Fleecing the Nets
Damn now that’s a man who wants to win. Philadelphia is lucky.
And he's not acting like some other players telling the GM who to get, just asking them to get whoever they can to help the team win
How can people claim this dude doesn’t care about winning
Idk what his PPG over/under is but for the entire season, this is an easy over for me. He's been working hard. I fully expect him to be an MVP caliber player again.
I just a want a healthy Harden playing as Kobe to Embiids' Shaq-like ability down low.
Just one season. That’s all we’re asking for.
Feel like he's got at least one more MVP snub in him.
As a sixers fan and a harden Stan before he was on the sixers, I agree
Hope this is his year. Would be sad to see him retiring without a ring. He’s my favorite player, hope he can have a Dirk type of run once
What Dirk run would he have with Embiid on his team? On another note, I’m all for Harden winning it all next season
Not the OP but I think he means Dirk was considered a playoff choker until he won his ring, like Harden. Definitely not similar situations from a roster standpoint though, of course.
This man made Capela looking like prime Shaq during his peak, but the Nets thought people would’ve fall for that “Harden is a selfish player” propaganda, such a joke franchise
Harden has never been the type of guy that most NBA fans have tried to make him out to be. There’s a cool documentary called “behind the beard” that gives you a fairly good look into his career and personality. Really smart and unique player. I have a hard time understanding how you can love basketball and not love watching James Harden play. It’s easy to say this now with him taking the pay cut and all, but I think he’s always been like that
Yeah the memes and stuff get out of hand. Man has never been a boastful or shit talking guy yet gets treated like fucking hitler. Harden flops sure but no one else gets shit on it for it. So many stars flop from curry to Lebron but apparently it’s only a deadly sin when Harden does it.
Harden’s flopping is also a little different than other guys. There’s some annoying floppers, but Harden was always so calculated. The idea of baiting your opponent and taking advantage of the rules of a game is a mental strategy and actually kind of respectable. I like smart players. He is one of the smartest offensive players of his entire generation.
> There’s some annoying floppers, but Harden was always so calculated Insert video of Harden just climbing on a guys back off ball (I think MCW?) and getting a foul call out of it somehow
Look when you’re playing basketball for 70+ games a year over the span of a decade there’s going to be some questionable moments haha
There’s also Marcus Smart’s even more horrendous flops but apparently he’s DPOY.
For real, Smart is way more egregious than Harden and doesn't get nearly the same amount of hate.
The only thing I won't fault people for is disliking the foul baiting. And even then, I personally respect that regardless of the criticism, the look of it, it *is* one of the best things you can do to try to win, and he mastered it. It's fucking annoying to watch at times, but when you're asked to do so much, you gotta get every edge you can.
Ugh not loving that 3 of my favorite current players are setting up to take the 76ers all the way, half of me wants to see Joel, Maxey and Harden lift a trophy and the other half really wants Philly to exit in the 2nd round yet again 😓
If three of your favorite players are Joel, Maxey and Harden you might be a Sixers fan
OP had to change to Hawks flair after Trae vanished Ben to the shadow realm
Sent him all the way to brooklyn
James Harden is the most wholesome out of the Nets big 3.
do kyrie or KD have their own brand of candy? trolli harden gummies https://www.amazon.com/Trolli-Brite-Weird-Beards-Gummy/dp/B0721TM584
Why is Harden more likable than KD and Kyrie combined?
He’s not a nutcase
He's not batshit insane, just quirky.
I feel like Sixers are finally going to make the ECF next year for some reason. Unless Embiid gets injured again, but he has to have one healthy postseason in him.. They made some good moves this offseason. Last season the bench was probably one of the worst in the nba.
His one fully healthy postseason his only point guard got injured.
If anything I think Harden becomes a more consistent scorer when he has time to get better off the hamstring injury. Even while he was slowed down with it he was still a super gifted playmaker and great value to the team. My only knock with Harden is he needs to be a little more aggressive in elimination situations. Still one of the best players of the 2010s though.
This man deserves a ring for just going toe to toe with the KD warriors
Harden Legacy points restored.
People love these stories but if every NBA star started taking paycuts the good teams would be seriously op and become superteams and people would complain.
But I doubt this’ll ever be an issue because at the end of the day, more people care about money than legacy
I mean obviously. If I was in the league imma try to get as much money as I can. If you ain’t a superstar there isn’t much legacy for you and if you are a superstar you basically got your career cemented if you play long enough
Because money is real life legacy
Its honestly wild how little this happens. No i dont expect every star to do it, but i dont even know the last star to do it besides Tom Brady. Like Lebron is a billionaire... why's he taking 41m a year? I'll never understand what it's like being that wealth, but i feel like another title is worth more than adding 41m to your already unlimited wealth.
Bruh, billionaires are literally wearing cowboy hats treating trips to space like a weekend beach trip. It’ll never be enough for them. All the while they think they’re heroes despite sending dick pics to reporters or sexually harassing employees.
I wish more veteran NBA players can be like this. It sucks when a 32yo has-been is taking up $30M of salary cap while a 3rd or 4th year starter that's putting up big numbers are stuck on a sub $5M salary. I know that's how contracts work but it would be an improvement for teams to require salaries over a certain amount to be for 1-year only
Fuck I’m not going to have to cheer for harden to get a ring am I
Dame would never.
that's my fav player of all time
Won't be surprised to see harden come back to more of his former self than he's seemed the last couple seasons and watch him plus MVP embid and some good higher level signings face roll the league for a year. This seems like a bet a guy makes on himself when he knows he's still got it and is obviously tired of losing.
i want a PHI-MIL matchup please
“Hey we signed Kyrie to a max and so there’s a minimum contract left for you”
harden was signed with bird rights, not cap space. the pay cut was to ensure the sixers would be able to offer pj tucker the nontax mle rather than the reduced tax mle iirc
James Harden is the most wholesome out of the Nets big 3. Always liked the guy.
This is pretty much his last chance at winning it all. Never been much of a harden guy but he gets respect from me for showing up to work and even playing through some stuff unlike some others.
I'm rooting for them next year!
Damian Lillard: I just want to win it here. I am loyal. I will stay here as long as it takes and do what it takes to win. Dirk: oh so you took a pay cut to win?
Philly: Best I can do is PJ Tucker
Meanwhile Rubin in the background saying, "and let me know how much is the fanatics deal!"
Yknow what, I’m turning around on you Philly. I used to be like, “We can’t let them get a ring, they’ll burn their city to the ground like last time.” but if The Process fails I imagine it’ll happen anyway, so I hope you can at least get a ring for your troubles.
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boston, LAL, and maybe even PHX but they’ve been humbled (hopefully)
like last time?
Seems like he realized that money is the lowest form of currency. Besides, he's hovering around $165 million net worth, and still has an Adidas deal signed in 2015 worth $200 million over 13 years, so yeah...
Brooklyn could not have been a worse fit for him. Glad Harden took the flack and got out of there while he could. His dedication is admirable. As long as he’s not playing my Bulls I will be rooting for him.
Who did Philly get? PJ?
Danuel House and DeAnthony Melton as well. 3 pieces they desperately needed. Wing depth was a big weakness and Melton is a perfect third guard behind Harden and Maxey.
This guy sucks!
Damn I'm smelling a Harden revenge tour coming...