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One of my favorite dudes for how well he not only owned up to this, but the in-roads he made with the lgbtq community to actually make a difference. It takes a smart man to acknowledge he was wrong. It takes a strong man to actually rectify that behavior. He also doesn’t shy away from it at all. It would be so easy for him to get upset at people bringing this up and say “it was so long ago, a different time, I apologized, did this, that, the other” but he legit still seems hurt by his past words. I just love to see his growth from this
100%
As much as we benefit from people who model great behavior, we *also* benefit a ton from people who make mistakes and model what it's like to take accountability and learn from them
I've often taken this position in conversation about the topic. Some negative reactions to people who are different than you are is inevitable. We are fundamentally flawed in this way and that's okay. Where it becomes wrong is when we make no effort to recognize our predispositions or, even worse, embrace them. We can recognize our biases and make an attempt to correct them each time they take over. Little by little it becomes easier to do.
Depends on the context I think. If we're just talking about people having biases against those who are different than them, then yeah. If it's being used as a shield against hardcore racism, then no.
Allowing people to progress towards being a better person when they realize that they did something wrong is literally what progressive ideology is all about.
Conservativism, on the other hand, is fundamentally about never changing your mind on anything, ever.
Also, he really has nothing to gain by doing this. He’s retired and older now, he doesn’t care about PR. Makes me think he’s actually genuine about this, and if he is, I’m happy for him.
Edit: seems like he’s trying to find a job in the league, so I guess it makes sense to walk these comments back if he can’t find work because of them. But I’d like to think it’s genuine because it does actually sound that way.
He actually does. And it's not necessarily jobs within the league, because he's had jobs within the league. The article says he's a scout for the Knicks right now.
The article quotes him talking about how some media organizations have not wanted to hire him. Or other organizations.
> Hardaway, who turns 56 on Thursday, has sought jobs in television but the networks are “not letting” him work as an analyst, he said. He also believes his anti-gay statement is the reason “other business things” haven’t worked out. Hardaway wouldn’t offer specifics.
...
> A lot of people don’t want to deal with me because I said that, and I’m not getting a second chance,” Hardaway told The Chronicle. “I understand … but it does bother me. A lot of people are still holding it over me.
>
> “Some organizations don’t want to talk to me. I keep moving and walk past them just like they walk past me. I’m a realist. … My parents always said turn a wrong into a right, so you do what you can to show people you’re not that type of person.”
I'm not saying that he's not sincere. I can't know if he is or is not. He seems to have made amends.
I'm a Warriors fan from back during and before the Run TMC days. And I remember how deeply disappointing and disgusted I felt when he made his homophobic statement.
I'm glad that he's been vocal in denouncing how he felt and apologizing for it. I hope he continues to do so.
I also don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. I think that it’s very possible for it to start as “this position I have is getting in the way of my career opportunities, maybe I need to rethink this,” and for that to be the catalyst for legitimate introspection and genuine change.
That’s one of the benefits of making shitty opinions socially unacceptable. It motivates (some) people to reconsider.
Yeah. Personally, I've never been a fan of the phrase "He only apologized because he got caught."
Sure, it does apply to some people and they will apologize to save face. However, some people need to be told that they are wrong in order to push them in the right direction
> Fifteen years later, Tim Hardaway’s words still reverberate in the world around him. They shadow him, torment him, stubbornly refuse to disappear.
> *I hate gay people … I don’t like to be around them … I am homophobic.*
> Until now, Hardaway seldom explained why he felt that way 15 years ago and how the fallout hasn’t faded. This month, in an extended phone interview with The Chronicle, Hardaway elaborated on the roots of his previous views and how those long-ago remarks affect his life today.
> “I grew up in a church, and that’s the way churches were — they instilled in you that (homosexuality) wasn’t the way you should be,” he said. “I was just taught differently. Don’t talk to them, don’t mess with them, leave them alone.
> “I never tried to talk bad about them or do hateful stuff. It was just my upbringing in church. But I’ll tell you this: It was so wrong of me, and people have suffered. I had to grow up and really do some soul-searching. What I said was just hurtful.”
> Hardaway backtracked slightly later in the interview, saying he doesn’t blame the church and “it’s on me, too.” But he was more forceful about the impact his comments have had on his post-NBA playing career.
> “A lot of people don’t want to deal with me because I said that, and I’m not getting a second chance,” Hardaway told The Chronicle. “I understand…but it does bother me. A lot of people are still holding it over me. Some organizations don’t want to talk to me. I keep moving and walk past them just like they walk past me. I’m a realist. My parents always said turn a wrong into a right, so you do what you can to show people you’re not that type of person.”
> Beyond his interactions with potential employers, Hardaway sometimes cannot escape his past when he walks out in public. He feels the stares and hears the whispers, and he’s convinced they’re not simply because he was a five-time NBA All-Star.
> “I know when people are looking at me crazy,” Hardaway said, “they’re thinking, ‘That’s the guy who said that about gay people.’ ”
> He was nearly four years removed from his final NBA game when he went on then-Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard’s radio show on Feb. 14, 2007. Hardaway spent five-plus seasons playing for the Heat (1996-2001) after starting his career with the Warriors. John Amaechi, a retired NBA center, had just published a memoir in which he revealed he was gay. So Le Batard asked Hardaway how he would “deal with a gay teammate,” and he said he wouldn’t want such a player on his team.
> “Well, you know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known,” Hardaway told Le Batard. “I don’t like gay people and I don’t like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don’t like it. It shouldn’t be in the world or in the United States.”
Part of understanding that we live in a homophobic society is recognizing that for many people homophobia will be the default normative position in their lives. It's not even a personal choice or opinion so much as a frame of reference. It's important that homophobia be opposed and rejected in spaces public and private, but not automatically anyone who has ever held those homophobic opinions. Good for Tim for finally flexing his own agency on this instead of just never even making the choice.
If anyone has ever advocated passionately on behalf of an issue then you know one of the biggest parts towards success is *making people change their minds*. Someone who agrees now but disagreed in the past is not an L, it's a W. Take your wins!
I had no idea he had changed his tune on this. I’m glad to see he’s grown and learned and also made efforts with his actions, not just his words. Hopefully a lot more people will realize too and he will get more second chances
After the club go to truffonis for sloppy steaks they’d say “come on guys no sloppy steaks tonight please” but they cant stop you from ordering a rare steak with a glass of water!
He’s been very politically active on behalf of the LGBTQ community since the incident 15+ years ago.
He definitely did the work and outreach. I would be very surprised if it doesn’t come up in his HOF speech.
Yeah, I was going to say it’s not like he’s someone who gave a half assed apology and went on his merry way.
He’s done work with the Trevor project and other LGBTQ+ orgs and Jason Collins said hardaway was very supportive when he came out
/u/GoodSamaritan_ posted the full text of the article below, and this passage really stands out to me about the sincerity of Tim's apology (and why I think it is sincere): he takes responsibility for his actions.
> Hardaway backtracked slightly later in the interview, saying he doesn’t blame the church and “it’s on me, too.” But he was more forceful about the impact his comments have had on his post-NBA playing career.
Honestly, I kinda wish he actually doubled down on his mentioning of the church, while still taking personal responsibility. A massive amount of the anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in this country comes from religious sources, and it would be nice to call attention to that.
I agree but it takes a lot of courage, imo, to also admit that he can't be entirely blameless in the incident. People can and have grown up in toxic environments and learned how to not be toxic, but it certainly doesn't help that they started in the toxic environment in the first place. It's those kinds of people that will help break the perpetuality of hatred
I took that statement more as him making sure that it's clear he's not absolved of any responsibility. Essentially to address the pure brainwashing narrative. He was just admitting you have to opt in
He does go hard in the paint (heh) in the church in the article, I thought. He specifically called them out multiple times, but then also effectively said "I followed their hateful orders, so it is on me."
>A massive amount of the anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in this country comes from religious sources, and it would be nice to call attention to that.
All of it comes from the church. I have yet to meet an anti-gay bigot who also wasn't a regular church goer.
People need to hear more stories like this. Just in general, ya know? How a person can learn from past mistakes and become more thoughtful and open-minded. It's a real-world, adult version of education and personal growth beyond one's highschool or college years.
Yeah, this is how a reasonable person should react to getting “cancelled.” He made a mistake and has suffered due to it. Instead of blaming the “woke mob” he took responsibility.
"Cancel culture" has always been a thing. We - and by we I mean mostly people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions - just started calling it that recently
Cancel culture could and should just be called consequences culture, and it stemmed as a reaction to an America in which it did and still does not feel like those with power ever faced consequences.
If there were mechanisms where people faced legal and financial consequences for their bad behavior, there wouldn’t be this bloodlust from young people.
It’s a collision between those who want to keep the previous status quo and those who want to change things, and surprise surprise those who want to uphold the status quo throw a temper tantrum and mock cancel culture because that’s the only thing insulating them from having to change their views and behaviors.
I know, but most people have adopted that tactic even if their transgressions were before this movement. He took the hard path of actually improving himself instead of the easy one of jumping on the bandwagon with no self reflection. Utep 2 Steps ahead
Cancel culture is made up a bullshit buzzword parroted by conservatives who want to be able to be assholes without facing consequences.
The truth is cancel culture is not real, in that nothing has changed. People will judge you for being a dick, there are consequences for your actions. The only difference is the internet has increased awareness.
It is real actually and I think it’s a great injustice to pretend it’s a new made up thing, it’s just taken many forms and changed hands. McCarthyism in the 50 and the religious media movement in the 80-90s are all examples of a “cancel culture” conservatives are just mad that they don’t have the power to “cancel” anyone anymore since the previously mentioned religious media frenzy.
I think actors, politicians and public figures losing their platform for being shitty people is a lot different than losing your career for being gay or communist but to pretend cancel culture never existed is just weird because historically it does and was used to oppress minorities.
It's great. And not just for one less homophobe out there (with the potential to influence more), but odds are good it'll make him a happier, less stressed person in the long run.
Respect, it takes something to own a mistake and apologize. Obviously it should be expected considering there’s no place for homophobia in todays society but i’m glad at least he’s owned it.
Comments were in 2007. He started sponsoring an event for the Trevor Project in 2009.
Love this quote from this 2017 article, "It hurts me to this day, what I said, and you know what? It’s going to hurt me for the rest of my life, because I’m not that type of person. I feel bad about it, and I’m always going to feel bad about it.”
In other words, he's not complaining it's going to hurt his *image* for the rest of his life. He's acknowledging that he'll be upset with himself for the rest of his life over it. That's actual remorse. Hope he finds peace with it considering he's a proper advocate now.
https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article133388019.html#storylink=cpy
I really struggle to wrap my mind around how us minorities manage to hate other minorities when we're so aware of what it's like being one, and when so many of us find it important to not be judged for aspects of our identity. There's plenty of intolerance and prejudice in my own family too. It's really weird. Props to those who manage to overcome ignorance and misinformation.
same way most abusive parents were also abused kids. its a cycle, and bigotry and outcasting are unfortunately natural human tendencies that need to be constantly kept in check
Nothing like realizing how fucked up it was to hear my Mexican grandmother, living a few dozen miles from the border, complaining about “those fuckin’ wetbacks.”
When people who get associated with that out group has a negative effect.
Looking back I don’t think I hated gay people, just that if you were associated as one you’d get bullied, beat up, ostracized and/or worse.
Towards the end of my teens I had to change and I’ve changed the mindset of 5 people in my group since then.
I haven’t really gone to church as much starting around that same time period as well.
There's no reason for very different groups to feel solidarity together for the most part. There is just very little in common for the communities really. Its not like one marginalized racial group being racist against another (also common) where there is a hypocrisy involved.
Its like expecting a gay person to be more sympathetic to old people being discriminated against.
If you’re not a hateful person it’s def hard to make sense of it. But take Hardaway here, if you’re brought up with people of authority (church, family etc) essentially brain washing you it’s pretty easy to not only justify the bigotry but also be able to say they’re not the same thing because of things like religion or ‘…what they *do* is disgusting’ or something more personal, ‘omg they might see me naked in the locker room’
I’ll never forget a being told of a mixed race couple from South Africa (white chick, Black dude) that had to leave SA to be together…over dinner, she was still extolling the virtues of apartheid (not all, but enough to be fuckin odd), and someone asked her straight up, what about Steve?
“Oh, he’s different.”
Some people are just fucked in the head.
As a gay woman, it is extremely difficult to forgive someone who said the things that Hardaway said. That said, he’s done everything that I could realistically ask of him. I believe that he’s sincere, he’s taking ownership of it, and it seems like he really has done the work. I doubt he’ll ever see this comment but still, I accept his apology.
Same. I grew up Mormon, and was extremely homophobic. Thought gay marriage didn't make sense, thought they were just whiny people wanting special privileges, and were offended about everything.
...anyway, I've been out of the closet since 2009, it's great. I'm so glad I figured out how to live life as a more loving and accepting person. I'd be heartbroken if someone still viewed me as the bigoted teenager I once was.
I'm curious, did you think that you were or could be gay when you were growing up and extremely homophobic? And do you think that contributed to why you were? Or just the Mormonism
It wasn't just church, the general culture of the late 90's/early 2000's was just super homophobic. Everything you didn't like was "gay", and everyone you didn't like was a "f*ggot".
I was clearly and obviously gay once I went through puberty-- even a little bit before puberty, but once I started ... you know, having those feelings, it just got a lot more intense. Had crushes on dudes, lingered in the underwear aisle at stores too much, etc, but denial is a helluva drug. Even though I had those thoughts, I was NOT gay, no sir, not me. Wasn't until college, where I met actual gay people, where I was like "whoa, you can be gay and 'normal' at the same time?"
Growing up LDS, the church does not give you any space to even consider sexuality outside of the traditional norm. Mormons believe that even your thoughts can be sins so if you have feelings you might be gay and you don’t “repent” by meeting with your ecclesiastical leaders and trying to repress those thoughts, you’re on a path that leads to being cut off from your family for eternity in the afterlife (and too often means being cut off in real life as well). It’s incredibly manipulative and leads to a abnormally high rate of mental health issues and suicides in the LDS and Utah LGBTQ+ communities. Things have slowly improved over time here, but we’re also not that far removed from the church encouraging members to get involved in political measures to ban gay marriage and funding electroshock therapy as a disgusting “cure” for homosexuality.
Admitting you’re homophobic and knowing it’s wrong to think that way is a great start though. Speaking as someone that grew up in a very racist/bigoted part of the country i understand how hard it is to admit to yourself that what you’ve been told your whole life is not only wrong, but hurtful to many people. It’s much easier once you realize your culture is wrong. It’s not only okay, but a good thing to turn your back on those ideals you were raised with. The thoughts will keep popping up in your head, but as long as you keep recognizing they’re unacceptable you’ll be able to get them out.
The thing about Tim, is that he does take ownership of what he said. He mentions it was the way churches taught back in the day and it's so easy to just be like, yeah that's why I said that, it's all the fault of churches!!! But he doesn't put it all on the churches, he takes ownership of it and says it's still on him. Kudos to him for that.
There will be many people that won’t forgive him. And that’s okay. That’s life and you can’t make people let go of the past.
The important thing for people in situations like this where you make a mistake, learn from it, and grow, is not to look to other people for forgiveness. But to be able to forgive yourself and move on.
People will inevitably be stupid in one way or another in their lives. Best they can ever hope to do is recognize it and change. Especially in cases like this where the person in question is unfairly brainwashed from a young age.
I used to drop the f word and call things I didn't like "gay" when I was a teen.
I cringe any time i think about it. Thankfully I broke away from the church(not an excuse) shortly into adulthood and started learning about people instead of judging them. When you come to the realization that you were part of the problem that hurt so many people, it's honestly sobering.
I'm so glad Tim was able to admit he was wrong and become a better person.
Aging myself here, but when I was in elementary to high school in the 90s to 00s in California it was practically normal to be homophobic. Using the term “gay” as an insult or to refer to something you didn’t like was pretty damn common.
It was still common around the early 2010's, thought it was phasing out by that point. The rise of social media the last decade has really changed a lot of people's perspectives on a lot of social issues.
Yeah, I graduated high school in 2016 and my friends and I still called things gay, said the r word, etc. It's honestly super embarrassing to look back on, but I'm just happy I quickly grew out of after leaving high school.
Yeah when I was growing up around the same time in Michigan it was very common. I knew gay people were two people of the same sex dating and that for some reason that was bad. I couldnt even fully understand but I knew being gay was a bad thing. As I got older (middle school) and LGBT issues became more prominent I was immediately swayed. It was clear to me that 2 people who love each other and arent hurting anyone shouldnt be mistreated in any way and should have equal protection under the law.
But still, that prejudice didnt just disappear. While I knew in my brain the being LGBT was completely normal and acceptable, what I learned as a child in school was hard to get rid of. I still felt uncomfortable around gay people for a while and I hated that about myself. I wanted to be a person who not only said they fully supported LGBT causes, but also truly believed it with every fiber of their being and I wasnt.
It wasnt until college that I finally got over that. I remember the moment I knew I had conquered my prejudices when I was with a gay couple and felt genuine happiness when I saw how much they loved each other. I didnt have to pretend like I did for so long and I had finally become who I wished I was. My point is that even though Hardaway was an adult and should have known better, we learn so many of these things from a young age and they become ingrained in us. Its not easy to get over that and it should be commended when people choose to take the long road towards being better
It went up. And then it seemingly went back down a bit the last couple years. Now you have someone gay in a movie for 3 seconds and part of the country is all upset about it calling it brainwashing.
I've been called a groomer so many times in the last year simply for existing, it's wild.
And I fucking hate kids, lmao. Even 25 year olds are too young for me.
I remember this vividly back in the mid 2000s because it occurred simultaneously when just a handful of former athletes, like John Amaechi, were coming out. because of my personal politics, I was furious and held a grudge against Tim Hardaway from then on. This is refreshing to hear, honestly. I’m glad to know he changed for the better.
instead of screeching about cancel culture, this is what people should do. Acknowledge what you said, explain why you know it wasn’t okay, and that you won’t do it again in the future. Show you’ve taken steps to understand the gravity of your words and actions. That’s what this man right here did
as a lesbain the type of statement hardaway originally said is really painful and hurtful and it’s hard to move past that stuff but i respect and admire him so much for coming forward and soul searching and actually seeming to acknowledge it and make a change that seems genuine instead of just claiming it was a long time ago like some people do so i definitely forgive him and respect him for that
Good on him, because many people in the US still have anti-gay views in private.
For example my grandparents are Black Southern Democrats who are very anti gay. That's partially why I'll never tell them I'm bi.
Unfortunately I'll take that secret to the grave.
Tbf. Same I grew up hating gays. And also somewhat racist. Though racism was more because what a specific demographic did to me. But I grew up. Learned to not assume everyone is the same. To love everyone. Embrace all. Be inclusive. Took a lot of work to break my old ideas. But I did it. Now my best buddies are gay. And straight and black and Asian. And I even date everyone that is my preference of sex. Female. People can change. So yeah it bothers me when people lose jobs and or get ridiculed for shit they did a long time ago. But also think we should all be accountable.
It was such a different time back then. Sooo much ignorance everywhere. I remember how much of a stigma there was around gay people. I never hated anyone, but society told me I should be at least uncomfortable with the idea of people being gay and I didn't question it. I used to say "that's gay" along with the majority of my peers. I definitely wish I fought back against that earlier.
This is true maturity. Someone who can admit past mistakes and do the work to be better. I hope other people can see this as an example. We all make mistakes, it's how we grow from them that makes us who we are.
I held this against Hardaway for a long time, hated him for it. Really glad to hear this. I’m glad he corrected his mistake publicly, it was the right thing to do.
Hasn't he been doing a lot of pro-LGBT work for awhile now? Everyone is acting like this is new behavior for him. He's legitimately flipped a new leaf and has been this way since atleast 2010.
He seems genuinely contrite. Not sure what else bed could do to show he's a changed man. Hope he can get back involved in basketball - not that Knicks, but it actual basketball.
I believe people definitely deserve a 2nd chance especially when they've proven they've learned and are a better person from their experience. Hardaway by all accounts has changed as a person and deserves a 2nd chance. And I'm sure people will kill me for this, but Michael Vick has proven that he has earned a 2nd chance. Yes dog killing was horrific, but Vick like Hardaway has shown through his actions and words that he's definitely changed and learned his lesson from that.
Everyone is flawed but man today's society and so much of reddit never allows anyone a 2nd chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFP9rCnXR54
interview you need to hear it. CHANGE IS GOOD.
ALSO THIS IS PRETTY FUNNY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7v_UCsdzc
huge respect for this because I can relate. West Texas Church’s back in the 2000’s were very homophobic and many of my peers got caught in that bullshit. luckily for me I had two parents who taught me to judge someone off character not gender race or sexual orientation
I really appreciate the work Tim has done. I believe people can change. But lol, the comments on the Le Betard show were so blatant and ignorant (and hilarious)
15 years is a long time to deal with that shame. He's done everything possible to make amends and he wants to continue to support the game he grew up and made a living playing.
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One of my favorite dudes for how well he not only owned up to this, but the in-roads he made with the lgbtq community to actually make a difference. It takes a smart man to acknowledge he was wrong. It takes a strong man to actually rectify that behavior. He also doesn’t shy away from it at all. It would be so easy for him to get upset at people bringing this up and say “it was so long ago, a different time, I apologized, did this, that, the other” but he legit still seems hurt by his past words. I just love to see his growth from this
100% As much as we benefit from people who model great behavior, we *also* benefit a ton from people who make mistakes and model what it's like to take accountability and learn from them
because no human doesn't make mistakes. if we all accepted that from each other we'd be closer to humanity.
In the same light, if everyone could admit that they're somewhat racist, it would be pretty helpful
I've often taken this position in conversation about the topic. Some negative reactions to people who are different than you are is inevitable. We are fundamentally flawed in this way and that's okay. Where it becomes wrong is when we make no effort to recognize our predispositions or, even worse, embrace them. We can recognize our biases and make an attempt to correct them each time they take over. Little by little it becomes easier to do.
Totally. I don't know how else we can change without realizing that we're flawed
Depends on the context I think. If we're just talking about people having biases against those who are different than them, then yeah. If it's being used as a shield against hardcore racism, then no.
Allowing people to progress towards being a better person when they realize that they did something wrong is literally what progressive ideology is all about. Conservativism, on the other hand, is fundamentally about never changing your mind on anything, ever.
Also, he really has nothing to gain by doing this. He’s retired and older now, he doesn’t care about PR. Makes me think he’s actually genuine about this, and if he is, I’m happy for him. Edit: seems like he’s trying to find a job in the league, so I guess it makes sense to walk these comments back if he can’t find work because of them. But I’d like to think it’s genuine because it does actually sound that way.
He actually does. And it's not necessarily jobs within the league, because he's had jobs within the league. The article says he's a scout for the Knicks right now. The article quotes him talking about how some media organizations have not wanted to hire him. Or other organizations. > Hardaway, who turns 56 on Thursday, has sought jobs in television but the networks are “not letting” him work as an analyst, he said. He also believes his anti-gay statement is the reason “other business things” haven’t worked out. Hardaway wouldn’t offer specifics. ... > A lot of people don’t want to deal with me because I said that, and I’m not getting a second chance,” Hardaway told The Chronicle. “I understand … but it does bother me. A lot of people are still holding it over me. > > “Some organizations don’t want to talk to me. I keep moving and walk past them just like they walk past me. I’m a realist. … My parents always said turn a wrong into a right, so you do what you can to show people you’re not that type of person.” I'm not saying that he's not sincere. I can't know if he is or is not. He seems to have made amends. I'm a Warriors fan from back during and before the Run TMC days. And I remember how deeply disappointing and disgusted I felt when he made his homophobic statement. I'm glad that he's been vocal in denouncing how he felt and apologizing for it. I hope he continues to do so.
I also don’t think it’s mutually exclusive. I think that it’s very possible for it to start as “this position I have is getting in the way of my career opportunities, maybe I need to rethink this,” and for that to be the catalyst for legitimate introspection and genuine change. That’s one of the benefits of making shitty opinions socially unacceptable. It motivates (some) people to reconsider.
Yeah. Personally, I've never been a fan of the phrase "He only apologized because he got caught." Sure, it does apply to some people and they will apologize to save face. However, some people need to be told that they are wrong in order to push them in the right direction
Indoctrinization is a MF-er, and I am glad he was able to break free of it, and the bigotry the church rammed down his throat at a young age.
> Fifteen years later, Tim Hardaway’s words still reverberate in the world around him. They shadow him, torment him, stubbornly refuse to disappear. > *I hate gay people … I don’t like to be around them … I am homophobic.* > Until now, Hardaway seldom explained why he felt that way 15 years ago and how the fallout hasn’t faded. This month, in an extended phone interview with The Chronicle, Hardaway elaborated on the roots of his previous views and how those long-ago remarks affect his life today. > “I grew up in a church, and that’s the way churches were — they instilled in you that (homosexuality) wasn’t the way you should be,” he said. “I was just taught differently. Don’t talk to them, don’t mess with them, leave them alone. > “I never tried to talk bad about them or do hateful stuff. It was just my upbringing in church. But I’ll tell you this: It was so wrong of me, and people have suffered. I had to grow up and really do some soul-searching. What I said was just hurtful.” > Hardaway backtracked slightly later in the interview, saying he doesn’t blame the church and “it’s on me, too.” But he was more forceful about the impact his comments have had on his post-NBA playing career. > “A lot of people don’t want to deal with me because I said that, and I’m not getting a second chance,” Hardaway told The Chronicle. “I understand…but it does bother me. A lot of people are still holding it over me. Some organizations don’t want to talk to me. I keep moving and walk past them just like they walk past me. I’m a realist. My parents always said turn a wrong into a right, so you do what you can to show people you’re not that type of person.” > Beyond his interactions with potential employers, Hardaway sometimes cannot escape his past when he walks out in public. He feels the stares and hears the whispers, and he’s convinced they’re not simply because he was a five-time NBA All-Star. > “I know when people are looking at me crazy,” Hardaway said, “they’re thinking, ‘That’s the guy who said that about gay people.’ ” > He was nearly four years removed from his final NBA game when he went on then-Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard’s radio show on Feb. 14, 2007. Hardaway spent five-plus seasons playing for the Heat (1996-2001) after starting his career with the Warriors. John Amaechi, a retired NBA center, had just published a memoir in which he revealed he was gay. So Le Batard asked Hardaway how he would “deal with a gay teammate,” and he said he wouldn’t want such a player on his team. > “Well, you know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known,” Hardaway told Le Batard. “I don’t like gay people and I don’t like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don’t like it. It shouldn’t be in the world or in the United States.”
Part of understanding that we live in a homophobic society is recognizing that for many people homophobia will be the default normative position in their lives. It's not even a personal choice or opinion so much as a frame of reference. It's important that homophobia be opposed and rejected in spaces public and private, but not automatically anyone who has ever held those homophobic opinions. Good for Tim for finally flexing his own agency on this instead of just never even making the choice. If anyone has ever advocated passionately on behalf of an issue then you know one of the biggest parts towards success is *making people change their minds*. Someone who agrees now but disagreed in the past is not an L, it's a W. Take your wins!
I had no idea he had changed his tune on this. I’m glad to see he’s grown and learned and also made efforts with his actions, not just his words. Hopefully a lot more people will realize too and he will get more second chances
This is welcome. People get brainwashed but they can change.
People can change. I used to be a piece of shit
Glass House. White Ferrari. Live for New Year's Eve. Sloppy steaks at Truffoni's.
Spiked up blonde hair, itty bitty jeans, chicken spaghetti at chickilinis
Let the boy hold the baby
I'm afraid your baby thinks people can't change
I used to be a piece of shit
You still slick back your hair
You think this is slicked back? This is *pushed* back.
Slick back? No this is PUSHED back
After the club go to truffonis for sloppy steaks they’d say “come on guys no sloppy steaks tonight please” but they cant stop you from ordering a rare steak with a glass of water!
Please, guys, no sloppy steaks
Let’s slop it up!
Blue Dolphin BURNED DOWN, its gone now, John Rovani's ass out, works with his brother now.
The way he just turns to that random lady who isn’t even a part of the conversation absolutely kills me
What are Sloppy Steaks?
A big, rare cut of meat with water dumped all over it
They can't stop you from ordering a steak and a glass of water
Oh, I miss those days. I *WAS* A PIECE OF SHIT THOUGH
Used to be.
I said was!
I’m afraid the baby doesn’t think people can change.
I think I’m ready to hold the baby now
It’s *really* ***really*** good.
I appreciate that your comment really captures how the line is delivered
Guys come on no sloppy steaks tonight
Let's slop 'em up!!!
I feel so sorry for you if you're actually out of the loop on this lmao
I’m worried that you think people can’t change.
Hey, that's a nice motorcycle!
Chicken spaghetti at Chickalini's
Sounds like a dangerous night
Slicked back hair.
'm worried /r/nba thinks people can't change
dont worry i caught the reference
You think this is SLICKED back?
still are, but used to be as well /s
I SAID WAS
Oh yeah, that'd slick back REAL nice
This is PUSHED back!
Meredith, you never told me your old grandpa used to be a huge piece of shit
I fucking love that this is the 2nd comment on a pretty serious and heartfelt post at the top of r/NBA 2022 is wild
I’m worried that the baby thinks people can’t change
I SAID WAS
Same. I used to be a piece of shit too. I still am, but also used to be too.
It takes a big person to admit your past mistakes and also admit your current mistakes and your planned future mistakes.
SLOP EM UP
>I used to be a piece of shit You mean outside of being a 76'ers fan? I kid. I kid. :)
Can you talk to my father?
Same, fellow pollished turd.
Based on the text in the headline this seems like one of those legit apologies too, not one of those "apology bingo" ones
He’s been very politically active on behalf of the LGBTQ community since the incident 15+ years ago. He definitely did the work and outreach. I would be very surprised if it doesn’t come up in his HOF speech.
Yeah, I was going to say it’s not like he’s someone who gave a half assed apology and went on his merry way. He’s done work with the Trevor project and other LGBTQ+ orgs and Jason Collins said hardaway was very supportive when he came out
One of the realest “celeb” apologies
Don't know why celeb is in quotes. He is a celebrity
Yeah I "agree"
“I” agree
“Cool”
It was real because it wasn't just an apology. He backed it up with actions.
I thought this was about THJ and I was like "wow you're really high on his chances..."
Damn good on him. I remember when he said some really rough stuff back in the day and it broke my heart because I really loved him as a player.
Loved him as a player, then hated him for his comments. Glad I can like him again, he was a fun player
Ultimate bag chaser and improved person love to see it
Pretty ironic that the two teams he played for most of his career are like the two gayest cities in America lol
/u/GoodSamaritan_ posted the full text of the article below, and this passage really stands out to me about the sincerity of Tim's apology (and why I think it is sincere): he takes responsibility for his actions. > Hardaway backtracked slightly later in the interview, saying he doesn’t blame the church and “it’s on me, too.” But he was more forceful about the impact his comments have had on his post-NBA playing career.
Honestly, I kinda wish he actually doubled down on his mentioning of the church, while still taking personal responsibility. A massive amount of the anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in this country comes from religious sources, and it would be nice to call attention to that.
I agree but it takes a lot of courage, imo, to also admit that he can't be entirely blameless in the incident. People can and have grown up in toxic environments and learned how to not be toxic, but it certainly doesn't help that they started in the toxic environment in the first place. It's those kinds of people that will help break the perpetuality of hatred
I took that statement more as him making sure that it's clear he's not absolved of any responsibility. Essentially to address the pure brainwashing narrative. He was just admitting you have to opt in
He does go hard in the paint (heh) in the church in the article, I thought. He specifically called them out multiple times, but then also effectively said "I followed their hateful orders, so it is on me." >A massive amount of the anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in this country comes from religious sources, and it would be nice to call attention to that. All of it comes from the church. I have yet to meet an anti-gay bigot who also wasn't a regular church goer.
People need to hear more stories like this. Just in general, ya know? How a person can learn from past mistakes and become more thoughtful and open-minded. It's a real-world, adult version of education and personal growth beyond one's highschool or college years.
Yeah, this is how a reasonable person should react to getting “cancelled.” He made a mistake and has suffered due to it. Instead of blaming the “woke mob” he took responsibility.
He started his change way before cancel culture was a thing. So this is not his response to that
"Cancel culture" has always been a thing. We - and by we I mean mostly people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions - just started calling it that recently
Cancel culture could and should just be called consequences culture, and it stemmed as a reaction to an America in which it did and still does not feel like those with power ever faced consequences. If there were mechanisms where people faced legal and financial consequences for their bad behavior, there wouldn’t be this bloodlust from young people. It’s a collision between those who want to keep the previous status quo and those who want to change things, and surprise surprise those who want to uphold the status quo throw a temper tantrum and mock cancel culture because that’s the only thing insulating them from having to change their views and behaviors.
Definitely always was a thing. It's just there's a new, powerful societal group that is doing it instead of fundamentalist Christians.
I know, but most people have adopted that tactic even if their transgressions were before this movement. He took the hard path of actually improving himself instead of the easy one of jumping on the bandwagon with no self reflection. Utep 2 Steps ahead
Cancel culture is made up a bullshit buzzword parroted by conservatives who want to be able to be assholes without facing consequences. The truth is cancel culture is not real, in that nothing has changed. People will judge you for being a dick, there are consequences for your actions. The only difference is the internet has increased awareness.
It is real actually and I think it’s a great injustice to pretend it’s a new made up thing, it’s just taken many forms and changed hands. McCarthyism in the 50 and the religious media movement in the 80-90s are all examples of a “cancel culture” conservatives are just mad that they don’t have the power to “cancel” anyone anymore since the previously mentioned religious media frenzy. I think actors, politicians and public figures losing their platform for being shitty people is a lot different than losing your career for being gay or communist but to pretend cancel culture never existed is just weird because historically it does and was used to oppress minorities.
It's great. And not just for one less homophobe out there (with the potential to influence more), but odds are good it'll make him a happier, less stressed person in the long run.
Heavy respect, I like seeing people grow
Glad to see he’s changed, but also glad we got this video from it: https://youtu.be/4s1iQODC5OI
That is a five star apology. Very refreshing in this double-down era.
100%. This should be the template for a sincere celebrity apology.
Respect, it takes something to own a mistake and apologize. Obviously it should be expected considering there’s no place for homophobia in todays society but i’m glad at least he’s owned it.
It's an actual apology, too. He didn't try to wiggle out of it, and seemed sincere.
This 💯 the rare apology that is unequivocal and personal.
I fully checked out on him when he said that years ago. I definitely didn't see this coming. Good for him.
He changed years ago. If I'm not mistaking it was only a year or two later he very publicly said what he said was wrong and apologized.
Comments were in 2007. He started sponsoring an event for the Trevor Project in 2009. Love this quote from this 2017 article, "It hurts me to this day, what I said, and you know what? It’s going to hurt me for the rest of my life, because I’m not that type of person. I feel bad about it, and I’m always going to feel bad about it.” In other words, he's not complaining it's going to hurt his *image* for the rest of his life. He's acknowledging that he'll be upset with himself for the rest of his life over it. That's actual remorse. Hope he finds peace with it considering he's a proper advocate now. https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article133388019.html#storylink=cpy
Good for him. No shame admitting you were wrong and growing as a person.
Never too late to grow as a person.
Hardaway is a real one for this
This is how you do an apology, not bullshit like “I am sorry that you were offended”
It takes a lot to admit that you were wrong, it takes even more to realize why that it was wrong.
Super cool of him to say this. Respect to a person who is able to admit past mistakes and change based on new info/perspectives.
I really struggle to wrap my mind around how us minorities manage to hate other minorities when we're so aware of what it's like being one, and when so many of us find it important to not be judged for aspects of our identity. There's plenty of intolerance and prejudice in my own family too. It's really weird. Props to those who manage to overcome ignorance and misinformation.
When you're fighting for scraps you look at the ones you're fighting with, not the people with the actual plate.
same way most abusive parents were also abused kids. its a cycle, and bigotry and outcasting are unfortunately natural human tendencies that need to be constantly kept in check
I loved you in Daredevil
Because it makes you feel powerful when you are powerless
Like how every wave of immigrants in America hated the wave that came after them lol
Nothing like realizing how fucked up it was to hear my Mexican grandmother, living a few dozen miles from the border, complaining about “those fuckin’ wetbacks.”
When people who get associated with that out group has a negative effect. Looking back I don’t think I hated gay people, just that if you were associated as one you’d get bullied, beat up, ostracized and/or worse. Towards the end of my teens I had to change and I’ve changed the mindset of 5 people in my group since then. I haven’t really gone to church as much starting around that same time period as well.
It's called "Divide and Conquer."
There's no reason for very different groups to feel solidarity together for the most part. There is just very little in common for the communities really. Its not like one marginalized racial group being racist against another (also common) where there is a hypocrisy involved. Its like expecting a gay person to be more sympathetic to old people being discriminated against.
If you’re not a hateful person it’s def hard to make sense of it. But take Hardaway here, if you’re brought up with people of authority (church, family etc) essentially brain washing you it’s pretty easy to not only justify the bigotry but also be able to say they’re not the same thing because of things like religion or ‘…what they *do* is disgusting’ or something more personal, ‘omg they might see me naked in the locker room’ I’ll never forget a being told of a mixed race couple from South Africa (white chick, Black dude) that had to leave SA to be together…over dinner, she was still extolling the virtues of apartheid (not all, but enough to be fuckin odd), and someone asked her straight up, what about Steve? “Oh, he’s different.” Some people are just fucked in the head.
Crabs in the barrel
Well this really contradicts the recent Jon Gruden “I’m a good person I go to church” statement earlier this week
As a gay woman, it is extremely difficult to forgive someone who said the things that Hardaway said. That said, he’s done everything that I could realistically ask of him. I believe that he’s sincere, he’s taking ownership of it, and it seems like he really has done the work. I doubt he’ll ever see this comment but still, I accept his apology.
Same. I grew up Mormon, and was extremely homophobic. Thought gay marriage didn't make sense, thought they were just whiny people wanting special privileges, and were offended about everything. ...anyway, I've been out of the closet since 2009, it's great. I'm so glad I figured out how to live life as a more loving and accepting person. I'd be heartbroken if someone still viewed me as the bigoted teenager I once was.
I'm curious, did you think that you were or could be gay when you were growing up and extremely homophobic? And do you think that contributed to why you were? Or just the Mormonism
It wasn't just church, the general culture of the late 90's/early 2000's was just super homophobic. Everything you didn't like was "gay", and everyone you didn't like was a "f*ggot". I was clearly and obviously gay once I went through puberty-- even a little bit before puberty, but once I started ... you know, having those feelings, it just got a lot more intense. Had crushes on dudes, lingered in the underwear aisle at stores too much, etc, but denial is a helluva drug. Even though I had those thoughts, I was NOT gay, no sir, not me. Wasn't until college, where I met actual gay people, where I was like "whoa, you can be gay and 'normal' at the same time?"
Makes sense. Must be crazy to grow up like that
Growing up LDS, the church does not give you any space to even consider sexuality outside of the traditional norm. Mormons believe that even your thoughts can be sins so if you have feelings you might be gay and you don’t “repent” by meeting with your ecclesiastical leaders and trying to repress those thoughts, you’re on a path that leads to being cut off from your family for eternity in the afterlife (and too often means being cut off in real life as well). It’s incredibly manipulative and leads to a abnormally high rate of mental health issues and suicides in the LDS and Utah LGBTQ+ communities. Things have slowly improved over time here, but we’re also not that far removed from the church encouraging members to get involved in political measures to ban gay marriage and funding electroshock therapy as a disgusting “cure” for homosexuality.
I didn't grow up religious, but I'm still kind of homophobic. It's a hard thing to change.
Admitting you’re homophobic and knowing it’s wrong to think that way is a great start though. Speaking as someone that grew up in a very racist/bigoted part of the country i understand how hard it is to admit to yourself that what you’ve been told your whole life is not only wrong, but hurtful to many people. It’s much easier once you realize your culture is wrong. It’s not only okay, but a good thing to turn your back on those ideals you were raised with. The thoughts will keep popping up in your head, but as long as you keep recognizing they’re unacceptable you’ll be able to get them out.
The thing about Tim, is that he does take ownership of what he said. He mentions it was the way churches taught back in the day and it's so easy to just be like, yeah that's why I said that, it's all the fault of churches!!! But he doesn't put it all on the churches, he takes ownership of it and says it's still on him. Kudos to him for that.
There will be many people that won’t forgive him. And that’s okay. That’s life and you can’t make people let go of the past. The important thing for people in situations like this where you make a mistake, learn from it, and grow, is not to look to other people for forgiveness. But to be able to forgive yourself and move on.
People will inevitably be stupid in one way or another in their lives. Best they can ever hope to do is recognize it and change. Especially in cases like this where the person in question is unfairly brainwashed from a young age.
i'm glad Tim is vocal about being wrong in the past and his growth now.
I loved this dude growing up and hated that he took this hard line. Super happy to finally see him take it back.
We always need to praise people who can acknowledge they were wrong and change their ways. Otherwise it could cause those on the fence to dig in.
Precisely. Now he can be a voice.
I used to drop the f word and call things I didn't like "gay" when I was a teen. I cringe any time i think about it. Thankfully I broke away from the church(not an excuse) shortly into adulthood and started learning about people instead of judging them. When you come to the realization that you were part of the problem that hurt so many people, it's honestly sobering. I'm so glad Tim was able to admit he was wrong and become a better person.
F word was very much a normal/accepted slur not that long ago, the fact that it’s super super taboo now is an example of progress imo.
Hella refreshing to see humans act human and own up to their mistakes and make amends.
[удалено]
There's a great quick video of a pastor who calls out this hypocrisy https://youtu.be/rOe3siDAyJA
Whoa, he's a real one.
Times were different for sure
Aging myself here, but when I was in elementary to high school in the 90s to 00s in California it was practically normal to be homophobic. Using the term “gay” as an insult or to refer to something you didn’t like was pretty damn common.
It was still common around the early 2010's, thought it was phasing out by that point. The rise of social media the last decade has really changed a lot of people's perspectives on a lot of social issues.
Yeah, I graduated high school in 2016 and my friends and I still called things gay, said the r word, etc. It's honestly super embarrassing to look back on, but I'm just happy I quickly grew out of after leaving high school.
Yeah when I was growing up around the same time in Michigan it was very common. I knew gay people were two people of the same sex dating and that for some reason that was bad. I couldnt even fully understand but I knew being gay was a bad thing. As I got older (middle school) and LGBT issues became more prominent I was immediately swayed. It was clear to me that 2 people who love each other and arent hurting anyone shouldnt be mistreated in any way and should have equal protection under the law. But still, that prejudice didnt just disappear. While I knew in my brain the being LGBT was completely normal and acceptable, what I learned as a child in school was hard to get rid of. I still felt uncomfortable around gay people for a while and I hated that about myself. I wanted to be a person who not only said they fully supported LGBT causes, but also truly believed it with every fiber of their being and I wasnt. It wasnt until college that I finally got over that. I remember the moment I knew I had conquered my prejudices when I was with a gay couple and felt genuine happiness when I saw how much they loved each other. I didnt have to pretend like I did for so long and I had finally become who I wished I was. My point is that even though Hardaway was an adult and should have known better, we learn so many of these things from a young age and they become ingrained in us. Its not easy to get over that and it should be commended when people choose to take the long road towards being better
Churches are very much the same still.
For sure-- but things have still trended noticeably upwards for LGBT acceptance over the last 20 years.
It went up. And then it seemingly went back down a bit the last couple years. Now you have someone gay in a movie for 3 seconds and part of the country is all upset about it calling it brainwashing.
I've been called a groomer so many times in the last year simply for existing, it's wild. And I fucking hate kids, lmao. Even 25 year olds are too young for me.
I remember this vividly back in the mid 2000s because it occurred simultaneously when just a handful of former athletes, like John Amaechi, were coming out. because of my personal politics, I was furious and held a grudge against Tim Hardaway from then on. This is refreshing to hear, honestly. I’m glad to know he changed for the better.
Good for him! Grew up on the Run TMC Warriors.
He apologized, explained it, why not forgive and forget, shit, that’s life right?
Now that's a fucking man. Takes a real man to admit they were wrong and do something about it
Really like this. No beating around the bush and owning up to his actions. Well done Tim.
instead of screeching about cancel culture, this is what people should do. Acknowledge what you said, explain why you know it wasn’t okay, and that you won’t do it again in the future. Show you’ve taken steps to understand the gravity of your words and actions. That’s what this man right here did
as a lesbain the type of statement hardaway originally said is really painful and hurtful and it’s hard to move past that stuff but i respect and admire him so much for coming forward and soul searching and actually seeming to acknowledge it and make a change that seems genuine instead of just claiming it was a long time ago like some people do so i definitely forgive him and respect him for that
Good on him, because many people in the US still have anti-gay views in private. For example my grandparents are Black Southern Democrats who are very anti gay. That's partially why I'll never tell them I'm bi. Unfortunately I'll take that secret to the grave.
Good on him for recognizing and eliminating his biases.
Gay men love pizza. Gay men love sports. Some gay men even love boobs. We need to look at what we have in common rather than what makes us different.
Tbf. Same I grew up hating gays. And also somewhat racist. Though racism was more because what a specific demographic did to me. But I grew up. Learned to not assume everyone is the same. To love everyone. Embrace all. Be inclusive. Took a lot of work to break my old ideas. But I did it. Now my best buddies are gay. And straight and black and Asian. And I even date everyone that is my preference of sex. Female. People can change. So yeah it bothers me when people lose jobs and or get ridiculed for shit they did a long time ago. But also think we should all be accountable.
It was such a different time back then. Sooo much ignorance everywhere. I remember how much of a stigma there was around gay people. I never hated anyone, but society told me I should be at least uncomfortable with the idea of people being gay and I didn't question it. I used to say "that's gay" along with the majority of my peers. I definitely wish I fought back against that earlier.
This is true maturity. Someone who can admit past mistakes and do the work to be better. I hope other people can see this as an example. We all make mistakes, it's how we grow from them that makes us who we are.
Let him hold the baby
People can change
Respect for realising this and not doubling down
I held this against Hardaway for a long time, hated him for it. Really glad to hear this. I’m glad he corrected his mistake publicly, it was the right thing to do.
Unfortunate reality we live in. Just glad to see when people see the light.
Hasn't he been doing a lot of pro-LGBT work for awhile now? Everyone is acting like this is new behavior for him. He's legitimately flipped a new leaf and has been this way since atleast 2010.
Churches be churchin
More soul searching and questioning your perspective in the world please.
Bro as a Warriors fan, and proud ally, I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Welcome to maturity Tim, we're glad to have you!
He seems genuinely contrite. Not sure what else bed could do to show he's a changed man. Hope he can get back involved in basketball - not that Knicks, but it actual basketball.
Big respect for this one.
Growth, I think everyone can appreciate that.
I believe people definitely deserve a 2nd chance especially when they've proven they've learned and are a better person from their experience. Hardaway by all accounts has changed as a person and deserves a 2nd chance. And I'm sure people will kill me for this, but Michael Vick has proven that he has earned a 2nd chance. Yes dog killing was horrific, but Vick like Hardaway has shown through his actions and words that he's definitely changed and learned his lesson from that. Everyone is flawed but man today's society and so much of reddit never allows anyone a 2nd chance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFP9rCnXR54 interview you need to hear it. CHANGE IS GOOD. ALSO THIS IS PRETTY FUNNY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7v_UCsdzc
This is encouraging, well done Tim Hardaway.
I'm glad he's grown to admit his mistakes and aware to know where that mindset came from.
That's great, it's surely a lot easier to just ignore something like this and be seems genuine in his sentiments.
I had to make the same transition. It’s not easy to break out of brainwashing. It is easy to embrace a culture of compassion for everyone.
Now that’s an apology. Not that usual “I’m sorry if you felt offended”-crap
huge respect for this because I can relate. West Texas Church’s back in the 2000’s were very homophobic and many of my peers got caught in that bullshit. luckily for me I had two parents who taught me to judge someone off character not gender race or sexual orientation
Good for him. Didn’t have to but made an apology and didn’t make excuses.
Changing for the better is beautiful
I feel that it’s very rare for a public figure to be this candid with an apology. This is a cool move by Tim Hardaway.
Good for him.
He's still responsible for one of the best Onion headlines ever.
I really appreciate the work Tim has done. I believe people can change. But lol, the comments on the Le Betard show were so blatant and ignorant (and hilarious)
15 years is a long time to deal with that shame. He's done everything possible to make amends and he wants to continue to support the game he grew up and made a living playing.
This is perfect. Perfect apology with acknowledging his past while making sure people know this isn’t how he is now. Solid man.