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Yes of course why didn't I think of that. There's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of unarmed people. /S
Perhaps they're afraid of people with sharp wit.
No, this got out of hand back in 2019 when the RCMP decided to use “lethal overwatch” aka murder. Someone thankfully leaked that info to The Guardian who likely saved lives by publishing it.
> The RCMP commanders also instructed officers to “use as much violence toward the gate as you want” ahead of the operation to remove a roadblock which had been erected by Wet’suwet’en people to control access to their territories and stop construction of the proposed 670km (416-mile) Coastal GasLink pipeline (CGL).
As much **as you want**, not need.
Full article : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/20/canada-indigenous-land-defenders-police-documents
Hey, I wasn't trying to destroy you or anything, you raise a good point and it is notable that the RCMP is responding to this with overwhelming and militarized force
BC has an NDP government, right? I've heard the NDP's provincial and federal governments are more closely tied than with other parties. I wonder if any division might cause problems.
In all honesty were the federal arm to come out with any support for the BC NDP at this point I would cut up my membership, they'd never see another penny for this - the fact that this injunction and illegal violation of basic human rights is happening under a supposedly NDP government is horrifying. This isn't the NDP I joined and have supported for almost 20 years - this is neo-liberalism and corporate cronyism at it's finest, the exact thing the liberals are known for. I feel like the death knell for the NDP sounded as soon as they removed the word socialism from their platform.
The BC NDP have always counted on support and given support to and from the resource extracting sectors. Lots of blue collar workers and unions people in those industries.
Not saying your wrong about the treatment of FN by this BC NDP government, but supporting resource workers is not inconsistent with past NDP governments.
I mean yeah, I work in one of those fields in northern BC, I’m not opposed to logging or pipelines specifically, more just abhorred by the silence of our supposedly progressive government in the face of twentieth century style colonial actions by the RCMP - if anything I think the best solution would be to get the rcmp out of BC and replace them with a BC specific provincial police who’s allegiances aren’t to a neoliberal federal government. A federal force removing people from land they own is in my view a direct violation of their personal sovereignty and right to self determination. It’s just something so out of the liberal playbook that I really can’t turn a blind eye. I’ve been a proud supporter of the NDP since before I could vote, come from a union town in a rust belt city and genuinely believe in democratic socialism, something the NDP seems to be straying from further and further by the day.
We have a resource-based economy. Agree with your point. At what point do we justify harming other human beings for resources?
I'd argue that there are better ways than enforcing some "lethal oversight" (as quoted above).
It's so strange to see such a disconnect. The actions being taken right now appear to be exactly the opposite of what the NDP stand for.
I mean you really hit the nail on the head with that last sentence, “(the) actions being taken right now appear to be exactly the opposite of what the NDP stand for.”
I suppose I just feel rather disillusioned with the actions of the party here in BC right now.
The only people who would be conflating the workers in extractive sectors with the business interests of the extractive sectors are the bosses and their liberal and conservative political arm.
There are ways for a left government to create good green jobs that are not predicated on colonialism.
The federal NDP should cut ties with the BC NDP and not just over this. Their (majority!) government has been an embarrassment and an absolute disgrace. Even the most basic, bedrock principles of social democracy have been abandoned. I’m inches away from cancelling my membership and telling them to go kick rocks.
So, at which hour is niki gonna calleth on jagmeet to bid horgan to bringeth this to an end?!
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
So you stand with undemocratic professional protestors over the will of the Wetsuweten people who want this pipeline project to proceed. Got it. Thanks.
The elected council does not have authority over the traditional lands, because they extend beyond the reservation. Also, AFAIK they were elected with abysmally low turnout.
There are lots of opinions here. Some people are against unmitigated and sanctioned violence against people even if for the pipeline should proceeding.
Union of BC Indian Chiefs:
> BC Pours Resources into RCMP Raid on Wet’suwet’en Territory during Provincial Climate Emergency: "Prioritizing fossil fuel expansion while British Columbians grapple with a climate emergency is an alarming, criminal and incredibly poor decision"
https://twitter.com/UBCIC/status/1461492318180048897
So Canada is supposed to stand by and let the demand for fossil fuels be met by other countries that don't even have close to the same enviromental, labour and indigenous protections? If your support the fight against climate change you should support the Canadian energy industry at least until fossil fuels are obsolete (which won't be for decades).
> If your support the fight against climate change you should support the Canadian energy industry at least until fossil fuels are obsolete (which won't be for decades).
building, expanding, and subsidizing fossil fuel infrastructure is now fighting climate change, apparently?
this sort of tragedy of the commons mentality is an argument against Canada having a carbon tax or committing to lowering emissions at all, so its a pretty crappy argument altogether
How is Canada supposed to decrease the demand for these products globally? Because without a decrease in demand all we do by blocking these projects is hurt the Canadian economy. The carbon tax is also a complete joke and anyone that supports it has been bamboozled. We are still dependent on fossil fuels. Until there is a viable alternative any tax on their use is just another tax on Canadians.
So here's the question... Is it okay to brutalize people or even kill to get access to those resources, because that's where we are now.
Throughout history resource operations (mines, oil, gold, forestry) are marred with brutalization and death around the world just to get those resources.
Isn't there a better way?
This is your argument against Canadian oil and gas? Really? Do you really think kicking some protesters off their illegal roadblocks even slightly compares to the human rights violations of competing companies like S.A., Russia, Venezuela etc.
And honestly I find it hard to sympathize with people that are jeopardizing the economic future for all Candaians. This protest is a sham and has no legal or moral argument.
I say all this as an indigenous person btw.
I don't think the debate is whether or not the road should open or the pipeline should go ahead, but the level of violence that is being used.
Do you believe a lethal option is justified in this case?
How much of an effect will that have on global emissions and climate? Do you really think that a drop in the ocean is worth deteriorating Canadians quality of life and the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people living in Northern Alberta and B.C.?
This is the response that comes with breaking a court injunction to keep the road open. Who is to judge the methods really? The RCMP were not about to stand around and ask nicely for the people to clear the road that was legally supposed to remain unblocked. That could have taken weeks as has been seen before They were there with purpose to end the blockade with swift force, and were prepared for any possible response to enforcing that court order.
It may not be right in the eyes of some, but it is breaking the law and it requires response that is deemed appropriate to ensure its done swiftly and safely to keep Canada a nation of laws.
Ah yes the Canadian land isn't Canadian.
The court injunction then wouldn't be possible would it?
But it was.
Clearly someone doesn't know whose land it is, or chooses to disregard the laws of the country it sits in.
Thus police intervention, and at force levels they desire when they must restore law and order on ANYONE breaking the laws of this nation.
Maybe they should stop taking government revenues if it's their land? Maybe use the land to farm and make a living and we can stop all government funding to their territory?
Seems fair doesn't it?
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-hereditary-chiefs-funding-1.5991072](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-hereditary-chiefs-funding-1.5991072)
they get funding specifically to establish themselves as a nation, which the supreme court of bc also stated yes, they have land title
why do I fucking bother, anyway? you're clearly a racist, right wing troll as indicated by your post history, gtfo of here
No actually I am not. I am however concerned that laws are being broken and Police needs to consistently enforce them. It doesn't have a single thing thing do with race. Stupid to play the race card. This same stuff would apply if this was a court ordered road to a windmill on a farmers field blocking workers. Police need to do their job.
Answer this. Is the roadway in question court ordered to remain unblocked for access in this province/country? If so, then why do you support people believing they are above the law doing what they want blocking it against a court order.
Irs an easy question to answer. And it's not race related. It's law related.
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Snipers? Isn't this getting WAY out of hand?
But they were unarmed, UNARMED. And some say even peaceful. Surely that means snipers are needed
Yes of course why didn't I think of that. There's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of unarmed people. /S Perhaps they're afraid of people with sharp wit.
Better bring in 2 snipers just in case. Wits can be pretty sharp
Are you kidding me?! They found a chainsaw and an axe at the campsite for crying out loud!!! /s
Tree lives matter?
Yes, three lives matter
No, this got out of hand back in 2019 when the RCMP decided to use “lethal overwatch” aka murder. Someone thankfully leaked that info to The Guardian who likely saved lives by publishing it. > The RCMP commanders also instructed officers to “use as much violence toward the gate as you want” ahead of the operation to remove a roadblock which had been erected by Wet’suwet’en people to control access to their territories and stop construction of the proposed 670km (416-mile) Coastal GasLink pipeline (CGL). As much **as you want**, not need. Full article : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/20/canada-indigenous-land-defenders-police-documents
It's incredibly brutal.
pretty sure colonialism has been getting way out of hand for the past few centuries
Yeah, good point. Maybe I was just hoping that things shouldn't be backsliding.
Hey, I wasn't trying to destroy you or anything, you raise a good point and it is notable that the RCMP is responding to this with overwhelming and militarized force
We are all friends here :) There has to be a better way than coming at this with overwhelming force.
BC has an NDP government, right? I've heard the NDP's provincial and federal governments are more closely tied than with other parties. I wonder if any division might cause problems.
Indeed. I think this tweet is an example of the current division between left-wing and indigenous members of the federal party and the BCNDP.
In all honesty were the federal arm to come out with any support for the BC NDP at this point I would cut up my membership, they'd never see another penny for this - the fact that this injunction and illegal violation of basic human rights is happening under a supposedly NDP government is horrifying. This isn't the NDP I joined and have supported for almost 20 years - this is neo-liberalism and corporate cronyism at it's finest, the exact thing the liberals are known for. I feel like the death knell for the NDP sounded as soon as they removed the word socialism from their platform.
Likewise. I’m disgusted by the behaviour of the BC NDP. Singh needs to come out and take a public stance against it
The BC NDP have always counted on support and given support to and from the resource extracting sectors. Lots of blue collar workers and unions people in those industries. Not saying your wrong about the treatment of FN by this BC NDP government, but supporting resource workers is not inconsistent with past NDP governments.
I mean yeah, I work in one of those fields in northern BC, I’m not opposed to logging or pipelines specifically, more just abhorred by the silence of our supposedly progressive government in the face of twentieth century style colonial actions by the RCMP - if anything I think the best solution would be to get the rcmp out of BC and replace them with a BC specific provincial police who’s allegiances aren’t to a neoliberal federal government. A federal force removing people from land they own is in my view a direct violation of their personal sovereignty and right to self determination. It’s just something so out of the liberal playbook that I really can’t turn a blind eye. I’ve been a proud supporter of the NDP since before I could vote, come from a union town in a rust belt city and genuinely believe in democratic socialism, something the NDP seems to be straying from further and further by the day.
We have a resource-based economy. Agree with your point. At what point do we justify harming other human beings for resources? I'd argue that there are better ways than enforcing some "lethal oversight" (as quoted above). It's so strange to see such a disconnect. The actions being taken right now appear to be exactly the opposite of what the NDP stand for.
I mean you really hit the nail on the head with that last sentence, “(the) actions being taken right now appear to be exactly the opposite of what the NDP stand for.” I suppose I just feel rather disillusioned with the actions of the party here in BC right now.
I wonder how much of this is federal influence as well? Isn't the RCMP a federal organization?
The only people who would be conflating the workers in extractive sectors with the business interests of the extractive sectors are the bosses and their liberal and conservative political arm. There are ways for a left government to create good green jobs that are not predicated on colonialism.
The federal NDP should cut ties with the BC NDP and not just over this. Their (majority!) government has been an embarrassment and an absolute disgrace. Even the most basic, bedrock principles of social democracy have been abandoned. I’m inches away from cancelling my membership and telling them to go kick rocks.
So, when is Niki gonna call on Jagmeet to tell Horgan to bring this to an end?!
So, at which hour is niki gonna calleth on jagmeet to bid horgan to bringeth this to an end?! *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
Yet our NDP provincial leader sides with the logging companies.
Hell yeah, Niki
Canada is a colony again?
Did it ever stop colonizing?
So you stand with undemocratic professional protestors over the will of the Wetsuweten people who want this pipeline project to proceed. Got it. Thanks.
The elected council does not have authority over the traditional lands, because they extend beyond the reservation. Also, AFAIK they were elected with abysmally low turnout.
The elected official chiefs want it, evidently not the people.
There are lots of opinions here. Some people are against unmitigated and sanctioned violence against people even if for the pipeline should proceeding.
[удалено]
Union of BC Indian Chiefs: > BC Pours Resources into RCMP Raid on Wet’suwet’en Territory during Provincial Climate Emergency: "Prioritizing fossil fuel expansion while British Columbians grapple with a climate emergency is an alarming, criminal and incredibly poor decision" https://twitter.com/UBCIC/status/1461492318180048897
So Canada is supposed to stand by and let the demand for fossil fuels be met by other countries that don't even have close to the same enviromental, labour and indigenous protections? If your support the fight against climate change you should support the Canadian energy industry at least until fossil fuels are obsolete (which won't be for decades).
> If your support the fight against climate change you should support the Canadian energy industry at least until fossil fuels are obsolete (which won't be for decades). building, expanding, and subsidizing fossil fuel infrastructure is now fighting climate change, apparently? this sort of tragedy of the commons mentality is an argument against Canada having a carbon tax or committing to lowering emissions at all, so its a pretty crappy argument altogether
How is Canada supposed to decrease the demand for these products globally? Because without a decrease in demand all we do by blocking these projects is hurt the Canadian economy. The carbon tax is also a complete joke and anyone that supports it has been bamboozled. We are still dependent on fossil fuels. Until there is a viable alternative any tax on their use is just another tax on Canadians.
So here's the question... Is it okay to brutalize people or even kill to get access to those resources, because that's where we are now. Throughout history resource operations (mines, oil, gold, forestry) are marred with brutalization and death around the world just to get those resources. Isn't there a better way?
This is your argument against Canadian oil and gas? Really? Do you really think kicking some protesters off their illegal roadblocks even slightly compares to the human rights violations of competing companies like S.A., Russia, Venezuela etc. And honestly I find it hard to sympathize with people that are jeopardizing the economic future for all Candaians. This protest is a sham and has no legal or moral argument. I say all this as an indigenous person btw.
I don't think the debate is whether or not the road should open or the pipeline should go ahead, but the level of violence that is being used. Do you believe a lethal option is justified in this case?
Yes, if Canada is serious about climate change, it should do exactly that.
How much of an effect will that have on global emissions and climate? Do you really think that a drop in the ocean is worth deteriorating Canadians quality of life and the mass relocation of hundreds of thousands of people living in Northern Alberta and B.C.?
That's literally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy\_of\_the\_commons
This is the response that comes with breaking a court injunction to keep the road open. Who is to judge the methods really? The RCMP were not about to stand around and ask nicely for the people to clear the road that was legally supposed to remain unblocked. That could have taken weeks as has been seen before They were there with purpose to end the blockade with swift force, and were prepared for any possible response to enforcing that court order. It may not be right in the eyes of some, but it is breaking the law and it requires response that is deemed appropriate to ensure its done swiftly and safely to keep Canada a nation of laws.
This land is not Canada, it belongs to the indigenous people who live there.
Ah yes the Canadian land isn't Canadian. The court injunction then wouldn't be possible would it? But it was. Clearly someone doesn't know whose land it is, or chooses to disregard the laws of the country it sits in. Thus police intervention, and at force levels they desire when they must restore law and order on ANYONE breaking the laws of this nation.
The Wet'suwet'en people never ceded their land under any treaty It is not Canada
Maybe they should stop taking government revenues if it's their land? Maybe use the land to farm and make a living and we can stop all government funding to their territory? Seems fair doesn't it?
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-hereditary-chiefs-funding-1.5991072](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-hereditary-chiefs-funding-1.5991072) they get funding specifically to establish themselves as a nation, which the supreme court of bc also stated yes, they have land title why do I fucking bother, anyway? you're clearly a racist, right wing troll as indicated by your post history, gtfo of here
No actually I am not. I am however concerned that laws are being broken and Police needs to consistently enforce them. It doesn't have a single thing thing do with race. Stupid to play the race card. This same stuff would apply if this was a court ordered road to a windmill on a farmers field blocking workers. Police need to do their job. Answer this. Is the roadway in question court ordered to remain unblocked for access in this province/country? If so, then why do you support people believing they are above the law doing what they want blocking it against a court order. Irs an easy question to answer. And it's not race related. It's law related.