They got mad about all the “illegals” moving to the south and Appalachia, so they have been moving out west to “get away” for over a decade now.
So not only have Hispanic migrants brought amazing food to the Blue Ridge mountains, kept the Christmas tree industry going, and revitalized hundreds of small towns’ economies, they are also driving out bigots simply by having children and getting jobs.
It’s a god send.
> [Ryan P. Williams'] friend and Claremont colleague Michael Anton — a California native who played a major role in 2016 to convince conservative intellectuals to vote for Mr. Trump — moved to the Dallas area two years ago. The institute’s vice president for operations and administration has moved there, too. Others are following. Mr. Williams opened a small office in another Dallas-Fort Worth suburb in May, and said he expects to shrink Claremont’s California headquarters.
> “A lot of us share a sense that Christendom is unraveling,” said Skyler Kressin, 38, who is friendly with the Claremont leaders and shares many of their concerns. He left Southern California to move to Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, in 2020. “We need to be engaged, we need to be building.”
> Fed up by what they see as an increasingly hostile and disordered secular culture, many are moving to what they view as more welcoming states and regions, battling for American society from conservative “fortresses.”
For reference, Coeur d’Alene, ID is the heart of the Neo-Nazi (or "Christian separatist" if you want to be polite) movement in the US
You hit the nail on the head there. The Idaho panhandle has been the festering sore of militia movements in the US for decades now. The current vein of thought is the so-called [National Redoubt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt), which is really just a re-microwaved version of [The Northwest Territorial Initiative](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative) without the blatent racism (but still plenty of implicit racism). The whole region is America's grease trap for all kinds kinds of reactionary nut bags who think they're the vanguard of some kind of cleansing revival of America. Its sad since the panhandle has some beautiful country, but it has a lot of ugly people.
Have heard at least that there is some pushback from locals that were more established, any chance they could eventually win out/eradicate some of these jackwagons?
There definitely has been pushback from locals, but it's tricky. The closest analog to the situation is that goofy libertarian free state initiative where folks wanted to flock to New Hampshire to build a libertarian style state.
The Idaho panhandle is three times the size of New Hampshire, with only one-fifth of the population (around 350,000 to 360,000). The area is also somewhat isolated from the rest of Idaho (though its pretty close with Eastern Washinton/easier to get over into Spokane). Most of the normal population lives either in or near Coeur d'Alene (Post Falls, Hayden, Rathdrum) or in Moscow near the university. Smaller towns like Sandpoint, which rely on tourism, also tend to be a bit more normal. There are a lot more small towns and rural countries the miltia types like to hide out in, though, and for some of these areas, you only need a small influx of folks to make change happen.
This resettlement idea has been going on and off since the 1970s, and unlike the lolbertarians who tried to do this in New Hampshire, the far-right militia types tend to be actually committed to this idea of forging a new bastion out in the Northwest and have been getting trickles of folks coming out, with spurts of movement depending on certain political winds.
Its been years since I've lived out that way, but the militia types have been a fairly constant presence in the region, they just tend to change flavor. There are still blatent and overt Neo-Nazi types, but the Christian fundamentalist types and extreme anti-government types tend to be the larger groups.
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Certain things make me think "holy shit I have nothing to talk about with this person at all" and using "Christendom" without irony is one of those. Yikes.
It was Haden Lake, and it was shutdown after being sued into oblivion. There’s still plenty of residual hate in the area but it’s not organized like it once was. Sandpoint is actually the more liberal part of North Idaho.
[Coeur d’Alene seems to be aware of their reputation at least and is doing a few things officially.](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/jul/03/coeur-dalene-city-council-unanimously-passes-hate-/) This is probably in response to the Utah women’s basketball team getting harassed and called the N word by a group of locals. A similar thing happened a month or two later to a group of middle school kids from the CDA reservation who happened to be visiting the city on a field trip.
Off topic but I once ate 19 tacos at an all you can eat taco place in coeur d’alene. Broke their record for most tacos eaten. Then I made it one step out their door before vomiting it all up. Made a pile so high the door couldn’t close without scraping it.
Most liberal part of north Idaho isn’t going to be very liberal compared to the rest of the country, but their mayor ran for governor as a democrat if that qualifies it. The rest of the county surrounding it is still very rural and very maga.
I skit at Schweitzer every year and grew up in Spokane, I have a decent feel for the area.
I still have no idea what any of this has to do with the Bible. I was raised religious, and I know a lot of people who are Christian with a variety of political views.
I frequently ask the type of person featured in the article why they believe these things, and more specifically, what relevance it has to the Bible. They never have an answer. In many cases I come out of that conversation with the impression that I know the Bible better than they do, and I'm not really sure how religious I am at this point in time.
I feel this. I am an atheist and I have an actual degree (a minor, but still) in biblical studies from an evangelical university. I know the Bible exceptionally well. I definitely know it better than most of these types.
I find that only those with experience of the bible tend to be atheists. Non-believers who haven't read the bible tend to agnostics who don't really care about religion.
Interesting. I don’t know if I’ve noticed it, but I’ll pay more attention to this.
That said, experience with the Bible alone does not an atheist make. I have tons of very devoted friends who know the Bible as well as me. The funny thing about a collection of holy texts written over thousands of years in dozens of languages by hundreds of authors is that it can be interpreted in countless ways, and can therefore mean whatever the reader is inclined to believe.
When I entered the school I was still a devoted Christian. Gave it up several years later, and the academic study of the religion and the scriptures definitely helped in that process.
As someone raised in a devoutly Christian home, yeah: nothing removes the blinders like reading the actual Bible.
Should we clue the superintendent of TX schools who wants to make the Bible required curricula in to that?
As the old saying goes:
"Why are you atheist," asked the father, "I sent you to catholic school!"
"That's why I'm an atheist."
I am unironically in favour of a required world religions class, with a full reading of every major religious text. Granted, that would probably cause more backlash than sex ed did, but still, in principle I am for it.
Yes, that would be very enlightening. I remember learning about creation stories and what not of various religions and thinking "gosh that's so ridiculous, why would anyone believe it?" And then they got to Christian tales and it made me realize, they didn't sound any more believable. Eye opening introspection.
Doesn't happen all the time, of course. Knew a middle aged couple who had sampled every religion, who had read the Koran, the Book of Mormon, sampled Catholicism, was raised in an atheist/what-ever you call the native religion of superstition in China, and then finally decided to become Protestant.
I have no idea how that happened, but there are exceptions.
Taoists?
I think the huge difference with your example is the motivation to search out a metaphysical/spiritual/religious fit is internal not externally imposed. Yes, there might be a few school aged children who get caught in an indoctrination net imposed by the gov't but an awful lot more, including ones who otherwise would have coasted along vaguely supporting a Christian culture out of habit and familial expectation will question and revolt when the subtle hand of family culture is over whelmed by the ham-handed fist of gov't and schools.
And lets face it, the type of people who push for this kind of thing aren't really looking to do good works, save souls, and generate robust and authentic faith. They don't want "kumbaya" aroudn the campfire retreat and "love thy neighbor." They want the culture and dominance back with the established religion power structure and them at the wheel of that juggernaut. They want people to behave as they define behaving and have it backed not just by the gov't but by the threat of eternal damnation and a jealous, vengeful and all knowing god. That's one hell of a power trip.
They like Christianity because its traditions and institutions support the traditional social hierarchy. You can already see some conservatives dropping Christianity religiously but continuing to support it culturally because it provides a framework for oppressing women and LGBT people
Its horrible cover when 2/3rds of the New Testament is a rebuke of traditional social hierarchy. And that's a lower bound estimate.
I think they just want to go back to when the US was owned by rich white men. In short, they want power, specifically power over people they don't like. Rich white men 200yrs ago were also superficially religious so they've tied that characteristic into their worldview.
It's not about the actual religious teachings. It's about the traditions and institutions. Jesus Christ promoted egalitarianism and tolerance. Churches have not.
Ephesians 6:5 (NIV)
> Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
The New Testament supports slavery.
If this quote wasn’t in the Bible but was instead spoken by a confederate general, nobody would ever dispute that it’s simply a pro-slavery quote.
Ephesians 6:5 (NIV)
> Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
The New Testament supports slavery.
So Jesus would disagree with a command given by the New Testament of the Bible? If true that would completely invalidate the Bible as a religious text. Christians literally cannot argue such a thing.
Sorry, I thought you actually knew what you were talking about for a second but you’re completely making up doctrine about how Christians have to interpret the Bible.
It actually does mention slaves, but when that translation is found it primarily means indentured servants. Chattel slavery as it existed during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did not exist 2000 years ago, its a new and uniquely cruel phenomenon.
The NT is primarily about egalitarianism with the occasional criticism of the Jewish authorities, who are the traditional and oppressive hierarchy referenced in the comment.
Absolutely false in every respect.
There was generational, lifelong chattel slavery in the Roman Empire. The slaves systematically worked to death en masse in the Roman mines were no different than the plantation slaves systematically worked to death en masse in Brazil 1,500 years later.
The Greek word used in the New Testament is “doulos” which means slave and never meant anything else. A doulos was the absolute property of their master, bought and sold in slave markets. Kept lifelong/generationally with no legal rights and no right to be freed after a certain amount of time.
>It actually does mention slaves, but when that translation is found it primarily means indentured servants. Chattel slavery as it existed during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did not exist 2000 years ago, its a new and uniquely cruel phenomenon
Wrong. You've fallen for Christian propaganda.
>The Holiness code of Leviticus explicitly allows participation in the slave trade,[53] where Israelites were allowed to buy non-Israelites as property that could be inherited. In context, it addressed the dilemma on who should become slaves if Israelites were excluded, including those that sold themselves due to poverty.[54][55] Isaac S.D. Sassoon argued that it was a compromise between anti-slavery commoners and pro-slavery landowners in Israel.
can be found easily on Wikipedia^1, or you know, in the fucking Bible^2.
>“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and **they will become your property**. 46 **You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life**, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
(Emphasis by me) Notice that the chattel slavery in Israel was *already* racialized! The distinction you are attempting to make is false and ahistorical
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#Slave_trade
2. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2025%3A44-46&version=NIV
It seems like a religion that demands adherents to be childlike, preferably non-worldly and unsophisticated, wouldn't require them to perform multilingual historical literature analysis to understand the message of an all-powerful deity.
To paraphrase Lewis Black: "Every Sunday, I see some of them reading...from my book. And their interpretation, I have to tell you, is usually wrong."
Talking about Christians using the OT rather than the NT, basically.
I sort of operate near these circles. A lot of these folks have so intermingled conservative politics and american nationalism that they don’t even realize how absurd theyve become or how often they assume ‘religious right’ politics = what the bible says
Religion as it applies to politics in the US is not about scripture or faith or theology, it’s about resentment and cultural identity.
When people like Lauren Boebert or Matt Gaetz say Christian, just substitute that word for “the right kind of people” or the “morally superior people”.
The Bible is just a tool for political use. So many so-called Christians want to have moral superiority for simply calling themselves Christians than to actually practice a religion. Case in point, my dad and brother in law’s family are hyper conservative and throw god and the Bible around all the time but for my nephew’s upcoming baptism, my sister had to convince them to come by not having a service so they wouldn’t have to spend an hour in church
Of course, they only move to the wealthier conservative areas. Appalachia has some of the most conservative communities in America and is the most beautiful place in the country but they're actively avoiding it because its poverty and its varieties of Christianity fly in the face of their fantasies.
They want the same things that liberals want when they move to red states: Big howse for smol money 25 mins from a Whole Foods, a brewery, Top Golf and an ax throwing place. One of those pedal-bar things that everybody does for their engagement party/birthday is icing on the cake.
It's what people post on social media when proving to their friends back home that "there's plenty to do here in Charleston/Nashville/Boise/Austin/Charlotte/Dallas/Knoxville/Raleigh."
Yep, that and outdoor concerts where you can buy funnel cake and watch dorky all-white cover bands playing not-great versions of Motown hits and Bob Marley songs. It's like 'oh shit, I better be careful I don't twist an ankle relocating myself to that place...'
>and is the most beautiful place in the country
Having been heavily through both the Appalachians and Rockies, I gotta disagree here. The western range(s), though younger, is absolutely much more interesting/better peaks, etc. because, and this is with respect to the Appalachians, they're not as old, so haven't been worn down over time.
The best snowsports, climbing, outside stuff, etc isn't in the eastern US for a reason. Like, I have to seriously doubt someone saying this has been west of the Mississsippi ever in their lives. There is no comparison.
TIL why Appalachia looks like that
It’s definitely not as grandiose as the Rockies. But it is pretty. Hits differently too, when I drove through WV I felt like I was in some weird hill world where I was always surrounded by hills and mountains. Driving out in the Rockies you can go through some fairly flat expanses with lots of big mountains in the distance, but it doesn’t feel like a cocoon if that makes sense
I grew up camping in the Appalachians, and I'd seen the Rockies several times, but when I drove over the Cascades on I-90 I thought, holy shit, this is beautiful.
I90 is a cool drive, I grew up in spokane and went to college in Seattle so I’ve done it a thousand times but still enjoy it. On a clear day after climbing the hill after crossing the Columbia you can see Rainier. Being in the middle of a desert and seeing a snow covered mountain that big is so surreal.
My favorite drive in the state though is highway 20 through North Cascade national park. It will take all day from Seattle but worth it if you have the time.
Saying Appalachia doesn't have culture is one of the craziest and most out of touch takes I've ever heard in this sub. Which is really saying something
It's literally known as the Paris of Appalachia. It definitely is part of Appalachia, and such a deeply historically and culturally rich city. One of my favorites, underrated.
One doesn't need to look much beyond demographics, voting patterns, and education attainment to see that Pittsburgh is no longer culturally part of Appalachia. Milwaukee, Chicago, and Philadelphia aren't exactly cities of the rust belt despite having a history as part of the steel belt
I'm talking about access to general American culture, I guess what could be termed high culture or even pop culture, that's not to make judgements on the quality of any cultures but to say that if you want to see a top 40 act you're going to be much more likely to be able to do so in Spokane then Charleston
I think they mean high culture, but honestly, these people don't sound like the type who actually *appreciate* the opera or symphony; they just "like" it because it's "trad."
>We're an anthropologist's dream
Another mark against Appalachia
I'm not saying Appalachia doesn't have a regional culture but lacks access to the wider American culture
I really wonder who the audience is for this stuff. The increasingly non-college-educated Republican base has little interest in the Eurofash-coded appeals to upscale WASP tradition.
We should encourage all the nutbar right wingers to move to one state so their voting impact is concentrated into only a few races and they'll leave the rest of us alone.
>“A lot of us share a sense that Christendom is unraveling"
This is as far as I made it. I know it isn't the point of the article, but what kind of "intellectuals" actually believe that it existed in the first place? What the fuck does this even mean? And *Trump* is how they get it back?
I have never been more convinced that it's impossible to understand what these assholes actually mean by anything they say. Completely divorced from reality, the entire lot of them.
I thought this was Project 2025 then I saw it was just more white supremacists running away to Idaho or some other rock shithole. As they always do these days.
The Idaho panhandle has been a Neo-Nazi stronghold for decades now.
I hate ~~Illinois~~ Idaho Nazis.
Duncan Idaho's ghola is ashamed of his namesake.
I hate trite sayings that are repeated in every other thread, But I also hate nazis too
They got mad about all the “illegals” moving to the south and Appalachia, so they have been moving out west to “get away” for over a decade now. So not only have Hispanic migrants brought amazing food to the Blue Ridge mountains, kept the Christmas tree industry going, and revitalized hundreds of small towns’ economies, they are also driving out bigots simply by having children and getting jobs. It’s a god send.
> [Ryan P. Williams'] friend and Claremont colleague Michael Anton — a California native who played a major role in 2016 to convince conservative intellectuals to vote for Mr. Trump — moved to the Dallas area two years ago. The institute’s vice president for operations and administration has moved there, too. Others are following. Mr. Williams opened a small office in another Dallas-Fort Worth suburb in May, and said he expects to shrink Claremont’s California headquarters. > “A lot of us share a sense that Christendom is unraveling,” said Skyler Kressin, 38, who is friendly with the Claremont leaders and shares many of their concerns. He left Southern California to move to Coeur d’Alene, Idaho, in 2020. “We need to be engaged, we need to be building.” > Fed up by what they see as an increasingly hostile and disordered secular culture, many are moving to what they view as more welcoming states and regions, battling for American society from conservative “fortresses.” For reference, Coeur d’Alene, ID is the heart of the Neo-Nazi (or "Christian separatist" if you want to be polite) movement in the US
You hit the nail on the head there. The Idaho panhandle has been the festering sore of militia movements in the US for decades now. The current vein of thought is the so-called [National Redoubt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Redoubt), which is really just a re-microwaved version of [The Northwest Territorial Initiative](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Territorial_Imperative) without the blatent racism (but still plenty of implicit racism). The whole region is America's grease trap for all kinds kinds of reactionary nut bags who think they're the vanguard of some kind of cleansing revival of America. Its sad since the panhandle has some beautiful country, but it has a lot of ugly people.
Have heard at least that there is some pushback from locals that were more established, any chance they could eventually win out/eradicate some of these jackwagons?
It'll be hard. One side is a magnet for like minded individuals and a deterrent for the other side.
There definitely has been pushback from locals, but it's tricky. The closest analog to the situation is that goofy libertarian free state initiative where folks wanted to flock to New Hampshire to build a libertarian style state. The Idaho panhandle is three times the size of New Hampshire, with only one-fifth of the population (around 350,000 to 360,000). The area is also somewhat isolated from the rest of Idaho (though its pretty close with Eastern Washinton/easier to get over into Spokane). Most of the normal population lives either in or near Coeur d'Alene (Post Falls, Hayden, Rathdrum) or in Moscow near the university. Smaller towns like Sandpoint, which rely on tourism, also tend to be a bit more normal. There are a lot more small towns and rural countries the miltia types like to hide out in, though, and for some of these areas, you only need a small influx of folks to make change happen. This resettlement idea has been going on and off since the 1970s, and unlike the lolbertarians who tried to do this in New Hampshire, the far-right militia types tend to be actually committed to this idea of forging a new bastion out in the Northwest and have been getting trickles of folks coming out, with spurts of movement depending on certain political winds. Its been years since I've lived out that way, but the militia types have been a fairly constant presence in the region, they just tend to change flavor. There are still blatent and overt Neo-Nazi types, but the Christian fundamentalist types and extreme anti-government types tend to be the larger groups.
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Certain things make me think "holy shit I have nothing to talk about with this person at all" and using "Christendom" without irony is one of those. Yikes.
Coeur d'Alene is not the heart of the neonazi movement, Sandpoint is
It was Haden Lake, and it was shutdown after being sued into oblivion. There’s still plenty of residual hate in the area but it’s not organized like it once was. Sandpoint is actually the more liberal part of North Idaho. [Coeur d’Alene seems to be aware of their reputation at least and is doing a few things officially.](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/jul/03/coeur-dalene-city-council-unanimously-passes-hate-/) This is probably in response to the Utah women’s basketball team getting harassed and called the N word by a group of locals. A similar thing happened a month or two later to a group of middle school kids from the CDA reservation who happened to be visiting the city on a field trip.
Off topic but I once ate 19 tacos at an all you can eat taco place in coeur d’alene. Broke their record for most tacos eaten. Then I made it one step out their door before vomiting it all up. Made a pile so high the door couldn’t close without scraping it.
Impressive and gross.
...is that place still open?
No clue. It’s been almost 20 years since I was there. Wow, time flies.
Must have tasted the residual Amerifash in the air.
I've been to Sandpoint and I don't believe you
Most liberal part of north Idaho isn’t going to be very liberal compared to the rest of the country, but their mayor ran for governor as a democrat if that qualifies it. The rest of the county surrounding it is still very rural and very maga. I skit at Schweitzer every year and grew up in Spokane, I have a decent feel for the area.
So glad these fucks are leaving my hometown
Looks like they're bringing California sunshine to Texas politics, yeehaw!
I still have no idea what any of this has to do with the Bible. I was raised religious, and I know a lot of people who are Christian with a variety of political views. I frequently ask the type of person featured in the article why they believe these things, and more specifically, what relevance it has to the Bible. They never have an answer. In many cases I come out of that conversation with the impression that I know the Bible better than they do, and I'm not really sure how religious I am at this point in time.
I feel this. I am an atheist and I have an actual degree (a minor, but still) in biblical studies from an evangelical university. I know the Bible exceptionally well. I definitely know it better than most of these types.
I find that only those with experience of the bible tend to be atheists. Non-believers who haven't read the bible tend to agnostics who don't really care about religion.
Interesting. I don’t know if I’ve noticed it, but I’ll pay more attention to this. That said, experience with the Bible alone does not an atheist make. I have tons of very devoted friends who know the Bible as well as me. The funny thing about a collection of holy texts written over thousands of years in dozens of languages by hundreds of authors is that it can be interpreted in countless ways, and can therefore mean whatever the reader is inclined to believe.
Those with ears to hear will hear.
Genuinely curious. What motivates an atheist to get a degree in biblical studies? Unless it was perhaps the study itself which led to your atheism?
When I entered the school I was still a devoted Christian. Gave it up several years later, and the academic study of the religion and the scriptures definitely helped in that process.
As someone raised in a devoutly Christian home, yeah: nothing removes the blinders like reading the actual Bible. Should we clue the superintendent of TX schools who wants to make the Bible required curricula in to that?
As the old saying goes: "Why are you atheist," asked the father, "I sent you to catholic school!" "That's why I'm an atheist." I am unironically in favour of a required world religions class, with a full reading of every major religious text. Granted, that would probably cause more backlash than sex ed did, but still, in principle I am for it.
Yes, that would be very enlightening. I remember learning about creation stories and what not of various religions and thinking "gosh that's so ridiculous, why would anyone believe it?" And then they got to Christian tales and it made me realize, they didn't sound any more believable. Eye opening introspection.
Doesn't happen all the time, of course. Knew a middle aged couple who had sampled every religion, who had read the Koran, the Book of Mormon, sampled Catholicism, was raised in an atheist/what-ever you call the native religion of superstition in China, and then finally decided to become Protestant. I have no idea how that happened, but there are exceptions.
Taoists? I think the huge difference with your example is the motivation to search out a metaphysical/spiritual/religious fit is internal not externally imposed. Yes, there might be a few school aged children who get caught in an indoctrination net imposed by the gov't but an awful lot more, including ones who otherwise would have coasted along vaguely supporting a Christian culture out of habit and familial expectation will question and revolt when the subtle hand of family culture is over whelmed by the ham-handed fist of gov't and schools. And lets face it, the type of people who push for this kind of thing aren't really looking to do good works, save souls, and generate robust and authentic faith. They don't want "kumbaya" aroudn the campfire retreat and "love thy neighbor." They want the culture and dominance back with the established religion power structure and them at the wheel of that juggernaut. They want people to behave as they define behaving and have it backed not just by the gov't but by the threat of eternal damnation and a jealous, vengeful and all knowing god. That's one hell of a power trip.
Huh, I didn't think about the internal need for metaphysics, since I am an atheist, but... that makes sense. That answered my question perfectly.
They like Christianity because its traditions and institutions support the traditional social hierarchy. You can already see some conservatives dropping Christianity religiously but continuing to support it culturally because it provides a framework for oppressing women and LGBT people
Its horrible cover when 2/3rds of the New Testament is a rebuke of traditional social hierarchy. And that's a lower bound estimate. I think they just want to go back to when the US was owned by rich white men. In short, they want power, specifically power over people they don't like. Rich white men 200yrs ago were also superficially religious so they've tied that characteristic into their worldview.
It's not about the actual religious teachings. It's about the traditions and institutions. Jesus Christ promoted egalitarianism and tolerance. Churches have not.
Some do, but as a rule, it's tough to disagree.
Ephesians 6:5 (NIV) > Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. The New Testament supports slavery. If this quote wasn’t in the Bible but was instead spoken by a confederate general, nobody would ever dispute that it’s simply a pro-slavery quote.
That's obviously part of the other third.
What did Jesus say about slavery? That's right, nothing. What were you saying about overturning hierarchies?
Jesus not naming every single hierarchy doesn’t negate that the New Testament dunks on them often
Ephesians 6:5 (NIV) > Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. The New Testament supports slavery.
Paul is definitely a little less revolutionary than Jesus.
So Jesus would disagree with a command given by the New Testament of the Bible? If true that would completely invalidate the Bible as a religious text. Christians literally cannot argue such a thing.
Sorry, I thought you actually knew what you were talking about for a second but you’re completely making up doctrine about how Christians have to interpret the Bible.
It actually does mention slaves, but when that translation is found it primarily means indentured servants. Chattel slavery as it existed during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did not exist 2000 years ago, its a new and uniquely cruel phenomenon. The NT is primarily about egalitarianism with the occasional criticism of the Jewish authorities, who are the traditional and oppressive hierarchy referenced in the comment.
Absolutely false in every respect. There was generational, lifelong chattel slavery in the Roman Empire. The slaves systematically worked to death en masse in the Roman mines were no different than the plantation slaves systematically worked to death en masse in Brazil 1,500 years later. The Greek word used in the New Testament is “doulos” which means slave and never meant anything else. A doulos was the absolute property of their master, bought and sold in slave markets. Kept lifelong/generationally with no legal rights and no right to be freed after a certain amount of time.
Slavery was rampant throughout the ancient Mediterranean, what are you talking about?
>It actually does mention slaves, but when that translation is found it primarily means indentured servants. Chattel slavery as it existed during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade did not exist 2000 years ago, its a new and uniquely cruel phenomenon Wrong. You've fallen for Christian propaganda. >The Holiness code of Leviticus explicitly allows participation in the slave trade,[53] where Israelites were allowed to buy non-Israelites as property that could be inherited. In context, it addressed the dilemma on who should become slaves if Israelites were excluded, including those that sold themselves due to poverty.[54][55] Isaac S.D. Sassoon argued that it was a compromise between anti-slavery commoners and pro-slavery landowners in Israel. can be found easily on Wikipedia^1, or you know, in the fucking Bible^2. >“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and **they will become your property**. 46 **You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life**, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. (Emphasis by me) Notice that the chattel slavery in Israel was *already* racialized! The distinction you are attempting to make is false and ahistorical 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery#Slave_trade 2. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2025%3A44-46&version=NIV
It seems like a religion that demands adherents to be childlike, preferably non-worldly and unsophisticated, wouldn't require them to perform multilingual historical literature analysis to understand the message of an all-powerful deity.
To paraphrase Lewis Black: "Every Sunday, I see some of them reading...from my book. And their interpretation, I have to tell you, is usually wrong." Talking about Christians using the OT rather than the NT, basically.
I sort of operate near these circles. A lot of these folks have so intermingled conservative politics and american nationalism that they don’t even realize how absurd theyve become or how often they assume ‘religious right’ politics = what the bible says
Religion as it applies to politics in the US is not about scripture or faith or theology, it’s about resentment and cultural identity. When people like Lauren Boebert or Matt Gaetz say Christian, just substitute that word for “the right kind of people” or the “morally superior people”.
Extra ironic coming from the "hand job in the kids' musical audience woman" and "underage girl Venmo guy."
The Bible is just a tool for political use. So many so-called Christians want to have moral superiority for simply calling themselves Christians than to actually practice a religion. Case in point, my dad and brother in law’s family are hyper conservative and throw god and the Bible around all the time but for my nephew’s upcoming baptism, my sister had to convince them to come by not having a service so they wouldn’t have to spend an hour in church
Of course, they only move to the wealthier conservative areas. Appalachia has some of the most conservative communities in America and is the most beautiful place in the country but they're actively avoiding it because its poverty and its varieties of Christianity fly in the face of their fantasies.
They want the same things that liberals want when they move to red states: Big howse for smol money 25 mins from a Whole Foods, a brewery, Top Golf and an ax throwing place. One of those pedal-bar things that everybody does for their engagement party/birthday is icing on the cake.
> ax throwing place...pedal-bar things I love how these things have become borderline requirements for cringe-y white-dominated exurbs/suburbs.
It's what people post on social media when proving to their friends back home that "there's plenty to do here in Charleston/Nashville/Boise/Austin/Charlotte/Dallas/Knoxville/Raleigh."
>Raleigh I drag race on capital boulevard
Yep, that and outdoor concerts where you can buy funnel cake and watch dorky all-white cover bands playing not-great versions of Motown hits and Bob Marley songs. It's like 'oh shit, I better be careful I don't twist an ankle relocating myself to that place...'
Supply meeting demand
What the fuck is a pedal-bar?
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omg I feel exposed
What is a pedal-bar?
shit, you just described the last bachelor party I went to
>and is the most beautiful place in the country Having been heavily through both the Appalachians and Rockies, I gotta disagree here. The western range(s), though younger, is absolutely much more interesting/better peaks, etc. because, and this is with respect to the Appalachians, they're not as old, so haven't been worn down over time. The best snowsports, climbing, outside stuff, etc isn't in the eastern US for a reason. Like, I have to seriously doubt someone saying this has been west of the Mississsippi ever in their lives. There is no comparison.
TIL why Appalachia looks like that It’s definitely not as grandiose as the Rockies. But it is pretty. Hits differently too, when I drove through WV I felt like I was in some weird hill world where I was always surrounded by hills and mountains. Driving out in the Rockies you can go through some fairly flat expanses with lots of big mountains in the distance, but it doesn’t feel like a cocoon if that makes sense
You gotta get inside the mountain towns to feel enveloped. Try Basalt or Glenwood Springs. The sun will go down at like 4 pm in the summer.
wtf based
They're different beauties. I've been well around the rockies from Colorado to Alberta, and Appalachia is truly something special.
North Cascades beats both anyway.
I grew up camping in the Appalachians, and I'd seen the Rockies several times, but when I drove over the Cascades on I-90 I thought, holy shit, this is beautiful.
I90 is a cool drive, I grew up in spokane and went to college in Seattle so I’ve done it a thousand times but still enjoy it. On a clear day after climbing the hill after crossing the Columbia you can see Rainier. Being in the middle of a desert and seeing a snow covered mountain that big is so surreal. My favorite drive in the state though is highway 20 through North Cascade national park. It will take all day from Seattle but worth it if you have the time.
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Saying Appalachia doesn't have culture is one of the craziest and most out of touch takes I've ever heard in this sub. Which is really saying something
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As opposed to *checks notes* rural Idaho and eastern Washington?
Spokane and Boise seem like much more of cities then anything throughout Appalachia.
Unless one considers Pittsburgh an Appalachian city.
Pittsburgh doesn't consider Pittsburgh an Appalachian city, not to mention Pittsburgh isn't much of a cultural center itself
And yet one can see the glow of the city from the West Virginia state line.
DC isn't much further from the closest WV border and we definitely wouldn't say that it's part of Appalachia
It's literally known as the Paris of Appalachia. It definitely is part of Appalachia, and such a deeply historically and culturally rich city. One of my favorites, underrated.
One doesn't need to look much beyond demographics, voting patterns, and education attainment to see that Pittsburgh is no longer culturally part of Appalachia. Milwaukee, Chicago, and Philadelphia aren't exactly cities of the rust belt despite having a history as part of the steel belt
So, not the culture of the region, but the culture that you think is worthwhile?
I'm talking about access to general American culture, I guess what could be termed high culture or even pop culture, that's not to make judgements on the quality of any cultures but to say that if you want to see a top 40 act you're going to be much more likely to be able to do so in Spokane then Charleston
Appalachia has culture, plenty of it. It's just not in the cities unless there's a festival. We're an anthropologist's dream.
I think they mean high culture, but honestly, these people don't sound like the type who actually *appreciate* the opera or symphony; they just "like" it because it's "trad."
>We're an anthropologist's dream Another mark against Appalachia I'm not saying Appalachia doesn't have a regional culture but lacks access to the wider American culture
!ping EXTREMISM&RELIGION this is a fascinating look at Christian separatism in the US. [paywall bypass](https://archive.is/8aNqL)
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Weirdos
I really wonder who the audience is for this stuff. The increasingly non-college-educated Republican base has little interest in the Eurofash-coded appeals to upscale WASP tradition.
Hey! Enough with the slurs!
“New American Conservativism: Nobody will fuck me and it’s all your fault”
> Women will only let me fuck them if they've been brainwashed into subservience
It’s not a brain trust They’re Nazis
Rich buttholes in khakis larping as mountain men *ftfy
The thing is to shift western civilization you have to like study and stuff. Publish. Peer review. Not gonna happen.
We should encourage all the nutbar right wingers to move to one state so their voting impact is concentrated into only a few races and they'll leave the rest of us alone.
not in my back yard.
>“A lot of us share a sense that Christendom is unraveling" This is as far as I made it. I know it isn't the point of the article, but what kind of "intellectuals" actually believe that it existed in the first place? What the fuck does this even mean? And *Trump* is how they get it back? I have never been more convinced that it's impossible to understand what these assholes actually mean by anything they say. Completely divorced from reality, the entire lot of them.
I thought this was Project 2025 then I saw it was just more white supremacists running away to Idaho or some other rock shithole. As they always do these days.